Biting the hand that feeds

[Patrick]

And here we go again:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/22816/

We're the American version of LUG Radio? Someone clue this guy in that we actually started the show before LUG Radio did. I like LUG Radio but it's a totally different show than ours. Also remind him that the people behind lxer.com, the site he writes for have been guests on our show. This is fricking unreal! You try do people favors and all they do is bitch and gripe. They call us idiots?!?! WTF?!?!

[greggh]

Someone clue this guy in that we actually started the show before LUG Radio did. Also remind him that the people behind lxer.com, the site he writes for have been guests on our show.

Done!

[Judland]

Maybe this Devnet person should take the responsibility and teach his/her son some ethics for themselves. Then he/she won't have to worry so much about him being influenced by a podcast, television cartoon, MTV, or the countless number of tasteless billboard ads the marketing industry is trying toprogram into him.

If anything, what Devnet's son learns from a podcast, such as TLLTS, is probably doing him a favour by teaching him that he should be free to think and say what he wants... in essence help "break" the programming government and main-stream media is trying to hard wire into him.

It would probably be more meaningful if Devnet made some useful suggestions as to how to improve the show... name-calling just proves to me that comments like that are spawned more from envy rather than an actual knowledge of things.

I hope Devnet lets us know when his/her podcast is available for us to listen too. I'd be most happy to give my opinion of his/her work to return the favour.

[shopRatt]

It's funny how some people feel that every show is meant for everybody. Not everthing that I like and listen too, has to be played for my two daughters. I like horror movies too, and don't show them to her. If he doesn't want to have his son hear it, and he likes the show, he will have to do what I do and listen away from my kids.

I responded to the thread and pointed out the link to some of the other podcasts that his son may enjoy. I am for any child learning Linux at an early age, that is our future. I am going to have to change my sig to "don't change a thing, I like the show the way it is".

[Chess]

This is crazy. I can't believe the reception this got over there in the Ubuntu forums.

Look, I've said this before and I'll say it again: you guys are my favorite Linux show/podcast, whatever you want to call it. You guys remind me of my college buddies and I love that. I love the banter, the informal aspect of the show. I feel like I know all of you even though of course I've never met any of you.

I started doing my little podcast because of you guys, even though my podcast is a different style. I would love to be able to do a show like yours and to go for as long as you all have.

Don't change a damn thing.

[Gomer_X]

One thing I do keep hearing over and over is that we do not have enough technical content focusing on Linux. While we started the show talking about technology with a focus on Linux and Free/Open Software, we also made a point to discuss non-technical issues surrounding our lives. I think that there is an equal number of people who love the witty banter as opposed to those who loathe it.

As I've said (over and over), do what you want and you'll attract a following of people who like it. Those who don't will go away. What's the point of spending a lot of time trying to please people so you can attract a crowd that doesn't really like you anyway? You can't please everybody and still be yourself.

We'll never appeal to everybody so it's not worth trying. My opinion is that so long as we are satisfied with the product we are putting out and we maintain the position that we will always attempt to put out the best possible show we can; then we have done the job we set out to do.

Exactly.

[chuck]

I just do not understand why everyone has to have such a stick up their ass about this *podcast* thing. It's like we're not *worthy* because we don't do this in a studio and we need to do a "professional" podcast type of thing. They just don't *get it* that it's not a podcast. It was never meant to be one either, even though we were one of the first.

Wah Wah Wah

Quit bitching about not being a podcast. If your show appears in my podcast client each week, you're a podcast in my eyes. You even wrote a script to get podcasts automaticly. Last time I checked, it got your podcast just fine.

And if you want to stress the live aspect of the show, make sure that during the podcast (beginning and end maybe?) announce the day and time that the stream goes out live. I've listened to the podcast for a while now and can not say when the live stream is.

The other thing I don't get is that people cannot seem to lean back and enjoy the talk and the interviews without them being in some kind of CNN interview format or something. Personally I think it's refreshing to just lean back with a beer and have a friendly chat with some of these people. I like hearing what they actually think about things after they run out of their canned publicist approved interview material.

And when the sound quality of the show allows you to hear the presenters and the guests, the interviews are interesting most of the time. But when you can't hear the questions, it's a problem. When you can't hear the guests, it's a problem. And the more people that are lagging in the conversation, the worse the interview goes.

And why the hell aren't there more people that have heard of or listened to the show? Dang, we have been doing this way longer than anyone else - long enough for our very renouned guests to not only have heard of us before but in some cases actually request for us to interview them. Are we really that obnoxious or something?

Well there aren't more people that have heard or listened to your show because you don't do enough publicity and the audio quality has been such that in my case I can not recommend the show to people. Heck, I cann't make it through them most of the time. I don't care for the 'friendly banter' before and after the interview, and if the interview sound quality sucks then I turn it off.

Now if you do get a good interview, like the one you just had, I'll recommend that portion of the podcast.

I know that I find you guys a bit annoying, if not obnoxious, many times. When you keep going on that you're not a podcast, yet at the end of the same sentence you say that you all were one of the first to podcast. I think that each of you have gone on about being in jobs that trap you in a Windows world when the OSS world would be so much better. Perhaps you could consider taking on jobs that allow you to work at your passion? Stop bitching to the listeners how you hate what you do if you're not taking active steps to do what you love.

It really shouldn't annoy me as much as it does, but it does anyhow. Especially on a couple beers

And it should bother you because you apparently care about what you're doing.


Just remember that what I am saying is not meant to attack you guys, but just to express my feelings on the matter being discussed.

[chuck]

And here we go again:
http://lxer.com/module/forums/t/22816/

We're the American version of LUG Radio? Someone clue this guy in that we actually started the show before LUG Radio did. I like LUG Radio but it's a totally different show than ours. Also remind him that the people behind lxer.com, the site he writes for have been guests on our show. This is fricking unreal! You try do people favors and all they do is bitch and gripe. They call us idiots?!?! WTF?!?!

Well if the group there has a reference for what LUGRadio is, and don't know what you guys do, then it's a fair general comparison.

So what if you started your show first. If you have two items that are generally the same, they will get compared. If someone says that RPM is like Apt , is that fair? Both are package managers doing the same type of thing, but different approaches. Just because RPM came first does that discount the validity of the comparison?

What 'favors' excatly are you doing and for who? The people that listen to your show? If you feel that the listeners are ungrateful, stop doing the show. Accoding to your pal Linc not too many people will notice if you quit.

And yes, you are idiots if you keep doing this show with the hostility you're appartently feeling for your listeners.

If you're doing the show for yourselves and are happy with it, keep going.

If you're doing the show for the gratitude of every listener, that doesn't appear to be happening. Pack it in.

But please, stop crying when you get [un]fairly critisized. It's not a good thing. Not everyone will like you, get over it.

[jsusanka]

I always knew you guys were know nothing dweebs.

don't know about you guys but I am sick of name calling and trying to prove how much I know.

I always say if they can't take a joke f#@# them. I think someone needs to get out from behind the computer screen. Maybe they will now that they have released dapper drake.

you guys have a great show and I always look forward to the playful banter. you got to have the playful banter - otherwise you would go insane.

keep it up!!

[CptnObvious999]

Chuck, I do realize you do not care if it is technically considered a podcast. But they do the whole show live no matter the circumstances, if you don't like the interview then don't listen because you are given FREE entertainment at the cost of the whole TLLTS crews time so show a little gratitude. If their format of the show annoys you then don't listen. It takes a lot of dedication to do a show every week for ~2 hours for as long as they have. Not to mention that they spent their money on Microphones and the like. I for one like the way they do the show and some things are beyond their control.

I am not attacking you I am stating they do this out of their time and complaining about it doesn't do anything.

BTW the show is on every Wednesday at 8:30pm EST like it says on tllts.org

[Judland]

Pay no attention to these negative nay-sayers, guys. You're doing a heck of a job.

I'm so tired of listening to all of these sell-outs who only talk and report about things their sponsors are paying them to say. Unscripted and spontaneous discussions, like what I get from TLLTS, is where ideas and creative thought are really born.

I'll happily keep tuning for more every week.

[brakthepoet]

Not sure about anyone else, but I'm glad that the show link was posted on other sites and got some feedback. It was a nice reminder how many humorless dickweeds there are in the world.

Keep broadcasting. I'll keep listening.

[dann]

To be fair, though, Chuck does make some valid points. I listen to each and every episode and cringe when the audio quality is poor. It seems we go for about a month or so of good audio then dip down for a few shows, but eventually come back.

Sure we do this on our own time, but the guests that come on also come on their own time and they should be expected to be heard without struggle. If we are going to put a product out there it is then our responsibility to make sure that product is of decent quality.

One day it will all come together.

[Patrick]

Quit bitching about not being a podcast. If your show appears in my podcast client each week, you're a podcast in my eyes. You even wrote a script to get podcasts automaticly. Last time I checked, it got your podcast just fine.

Fair enough. It's a live podcast that records while a bunch of people are listening and interacting with us in real time. Does that make any radio show that offers archives via RSS a podcast too? Leo Laporte's KFI radio show falls into this category. They are other non-technical radio shows that do the same thing.

And if you want to stress the live aspect of the show, make sure that during the podcast (beginning and end maybe?) announce the day and time that the stream goes out live. I've listened to the podcast for a while now and can not say when the live stream is.

As someone already pointed out the website lists when the show is on and how to listen live. I also release a show announcement on several tech related news sites(lxer, newsforge, linuxtoday, etc.) the day of the show listing our guests and possible topics. It also gives the url's and times for the live stream.

And when the sound quality of the show allows you to hear the presenters and the guests, the interviews are interesting most of the time. But when you can't hear the questions, it's a problem. When you can't hear the guests, it's a problem. And the more people that are lagging in the conversation, the worse the interview goes.

Valid points.

Well there aren't more people that have heard or listened to your show because you don't do enough publicity and the audio quality has been such that in my case I can not recommend the show to people. Heck, I cann't make it through them most of the time. I don't care for the 'friendly banter' before and after the interview, and if the interview sound quality sucks then I turn it off.

Again we do advertise on the tech news sites. When we interview someone from a particular distro or project we'll sometimes provide links of the audio files for members of that community on a mailing list or BB. We release our episodes under creative commons. You're free do anything you like with them. Go ahead and cut out the interviews and post them on your own site if you'd like.

Now if you do get a good interview, like the one you just had, I'll recommend that portion of the podcast.

ok

I know that I find you guys a bit annoying, if not obnoxious, many times. When you keep going on that you're not a podcast, yet at the end of the same sentence you say that you all were one of the first to podcast. I think that each of you have gone on about being in jobs that trap you in a Windows world when the OSS world would be so much better. Perhaps you could consider taking on jobs that allow you to work at your passion? Stop bitching to the listeners how you hate what you do if you're not taking active steps to do what you love.

If you find us sooo annoying then don't listen to us. We're not holding a gun to your head. Most of us work in jobs where linux IS used in some capacity. Moving our families to go volunteer for the FSF is probably not in the cards anytime soon. If a job oppurtunity came along that involved advocacy and paid more than peanuts I might switch jobs. I have a family to feed and a mortgage to pay. It's easier to work for nothing when you don't have others to support. As far as bitching, we can say whatever we like. It's our show and our platform to talk about ANYTHING! Most of the time we talk about linux.

[Patrick]

What 'favors' excatly are you doing and for who? The people that listen to your show? If you feel that the listeners are ungrateful, stop doing the show. Accoding to your pal Linc not too many people will notice if you quit.

We are doing this show because we enjoy doing it. I like out hanging with my friends every Wednesday night at 8:30 and talking about linux. It does involve work and costs money. If other people like it, great. If not life goes on. I won't lose any sleep over it.

And yes, you are idiots if you keep doing this show with the hostility you're appartently feeling for your listeners.
If you're doing the show for yourselves and are happy with it, keep going.
If you're doing the show for the gratitude of every listener, that doesn't appear to be happening. Pack it in.

Most of the hostility came from a couple of posters on 2 different BB's. In the grand scheme of things that's not a lot. Again we're doing this because we enjoy it. Believe it or not most of the email we recieve is generally positive. Personally I have a thick skin. A couple of people bitching about us won't stop me from doing what I love doing. If you hate the show so much why did you register on the bulletin board and post twice bashing us? Why bother? Why waste your time?

But please, stop crying when you get [un]fairly critisized. It's not a good thing. Not everyone will like you, get over it.

Criticism is fine when done in a constructive manner. When it degrades to name calling it's pointless and unconstructive. Again it's our show and we're free to talk about anything we'd like to talk about.