The School of Geek

[treehead]

;well i haven't been around in a while, but it's good to be back. i have a favor to ask you all. first, some background....

;i am developing a new website that will center around what could best be called a "geek curriculum." basically we will be developing completely GFDL learning tracks that will start at the newbie level and work their way up into the advanced in various subjects. the following are the tracks that exist currently:

* computing systems (read: PCs)
* unix and linux (as a complete operating system)
* computing standards (read: RFCs; e.g. TCP, IP, DNS, SGML/HTML, XML, 802.11, etc)

;<b>my question for you is this</b>: if you could return to the time/place that you first began learning computers (when you could call yourself a newbie), what kind of "learning program" or "geek school" would you like to have had at your disposal to learn?

;i am looking for specific topics, methods of learning, media, or methodologies that you wish you could have had that would have helped you to learn what you wanted to know. specifically, i am interested in how you would "stack" these up... what *order* would you put them in and how would you teach them? these learning programs could be a part of any of the aforementioned four topics--or suggest any other category you'd like to see.

;my hope is to start an online "geek school" for all those newbies out there, but also to provide tracks that geeks of any level of knowledge to jump onto in order to learn (or teach).

;let me know your thoughts.

;treehead

[Tsuroerusu]

I'm the hacker type, started when I was four years old, and still hackin' away!

[Judland]

I prefer to learn by example, be it in a book or by examining code myself and trying to decipher what everything does.

I get the most out of my training when I have a practical goal set before me and then learn in the doing. I don't like someone telling me exactly what to do, but rather prefer a nudge in the right direction with an example. This way, I can also learn why things are done in certain ways as well as how.

One book that I enjoyed reading and learned a lot from was "SAMs Teach Yourself HTML in 24 Hours". This was in the type of format that I enjoy learning from the most.

Here's the command we will learn - Here's what it does - Here's an example on how to use it.

[Patrick]

I prefer to learn by example, be it in a book or by examining code myself and trying to decipher what everything does.

I'm the same way. Give me some example and I'll pick it up pretty quickly.
One of the best programming books I've ever read is the Beginning Java series from Ivor Horton:
http://www.bookpool.com/ss?qs=ivor+horton&x=0&y=0

I might have to check out his C/C++ books.

[treehead]

;i see. good points. i think i'm looking to fill a gap between the "HOW-TO" and the technical docs or source code. perhaps something a bit more narrative, like a class (school). i think we all have slogged through a lot to get to where we are... i think that there are other ways of teaching this stuff to newbies, though.

;take my nephew for an example: young, in high school, interested in computers, installed (and reinstalled) windows on the family computers a few times, set up a basic wireless AP, has a handful of PCs and laptops hanging around the house, but is lost for finding a path to learn. sure, i've told him the old staples: go here, read this book, google this, look up that. but even with the right resources, he's drowning. the difference between kids today and when we grew up is that they have *too much* information (a point that Gomer_X brought up on the LUGRadio forums); what i'd like to do is not just provide a simple index to shove the newbie into, but a real learning path... call it a school of geekdom or a non-certifying certification track or whathaveyou, but something to give newbies direction and instruction, both in *how* to make the technology work and *why* it works the way it does.

;treehead

[Tsuroerusu]

;i see. good points. i think i'm looking to fill a gap between the "HOW-TO" and the technical docs or source code. perhaps something a bit more narrative, like a class (school). i think we all have slogged through a lot to get to where we are... i think that there are other ways of teaching this stuff to newbies, though.

;take my nephew for an example: young, in high school, interested in computers, installed (and reinstalled) windows on the family computers a few times, set up a basic wireless AP, has a handful of PCs and laptops hanging around the house, but is lost for finding a path to learn. sure, i've told him the old staples: go here, read this book, google this, look up that. but even with the right resources, he's drowning. the difference between kids today and when we grew up is that they have *too much* information (a point that Gomer_X brought up on the LUGRadio forums); what i'd like to do is not just provide a simple index to shove the newbie into, but a real learning path... call it a school of geekdom or a non-certifying certification track or whathaveyou, but something to give newbies direction and instruction, both in *how* to make the technology work and *why* it works the way it does.

;treehead

You just need to make him find something that catches his interest, for instance, GNU/Linux and UNIX really caught my interest after I tried it for the first time, kind of like a hard drug (Not that I have ever been on drugs), and then I just wanted to learn more and more and more about it, when I started out I never thought I would be able to use OpenBSD or FreeBSD, no way I thought to myself back then, but today, I'm in love with Linux and BSD, and if Sun puts out Solaris under GPLv3, I might just have to go and check it out.

Just make him try a few things for a while and see if it catches his interest, once I wanted to be a web designer, but then I found out that wasn't really me, then I wanted to be a programmer, I quickly found out that really wasn't me, and now I'm on to system administration stuff, and maybe it will change to a Steve Vaughan-Nicols style writer

[Judland]

but even with the right resources, he's drowning. the difference between kids today and when we grew up is that they have *too much* information (a point that Gomer_X brought up on the LUGRadio forums)

As Tsuroerusu mentioned, it's best if you have a direction or goal to shoot for, rather than "I want to learn computers". As you've discovered, it's just too broad of a field for that kind of goal. "General computer skills" is a matter of opinion. General office computing skills is different than general system administration skills.

The student should be asked, "what do you want to be able to do with your computer first?" From there, a path can be chosen. If the student has no interest in graphic art and just wants to learn how to e-mail and read newsgroups, then there's no point in learning GIMP at this stage.

Perhaps later, after he/she masters the art of sending and reading e-mails, graphics may be the next thing to interest them; but one thing at a time, you know?

Having focus is the key, here.

[Tsuroerusu]

Having focus is the key, here.

FOCUS YOUR ENERGY!!!.....

Sorry folks, I watch too much DragonBall and japanese anime

[treehead]

As Tsuroerusu mentioned, it's best if you have a direction or goal to shoot for, rather than "I want to learn computers". As you've discovered, it's just too broad of a field for that kind of goal. "General computer skills" is a matter of opinion. General office computing skills is different than general system administration skills.

;i think my assumption is the "wannabe geek"-type newbie, such as i was when i was growing up.

The student should be asked, "what do you want to be able to do with your computer first?" From there, a path can be chosen.

;i've thought about this since the discussion started. i think there might be some room for choice there, but i want to stay with those who are interested in knowing *why* their computer does what it does, not just *how*. given this criteria, you may be a wannabe sysadmin as tsuro was, or perhaps a wannabe hacker (programmer) or a wannabe L337 desktop user. i don't forsee (at least at the beginning of the project) engaging those who are only interested in word processing or gaming or even web design or the like. think: the hacker how-to expanded into a curriculum encompassing sysadmin, programming, and general desktop geeks.

;cRaig

[thetza]

obviously most people learn by playing around, but you can only get so far without the theoretical background, meaning books. You can't understand Unix or TCP/IP without having read, say, W. Richard Stevens books on the subject.

[Tsuroerusu]

You can't understand Unix or TCP/IP without having read, say, W. Richard Stevens books on the subject.

You can either read a book or a nice chunk of sourcecode!

[thetza]

You can't understand Unix or TCP/IP without having read, say, W. Richard Stevens books on the subject.

You can either read a book or a nice chunk of sourcecode!

yea tell me how that works out, kid.

[CptnObvious999]

I've learned most that I know from Fscking around with stuff. There are a couple of programs that I just didn't know where to start (mainly Blender) but after figuring out the basics I have figured out a bunch of useful features. Programming I learn mostly from books because it is hard to learn it any other way. The internet has helped me a lot too.

[treehead]

Programming I learn mostly from books because it is hard to learn it any other way. The internet has helped me a lot too.

;my question for you: why do think you "had to learn" programming from books? why couldn't you learn it the way you did blender, or system administration or any of the others things you've learned about linux?

;treehead

[CptnObvious999]

Programming I learn mostly from books because it is hard to learn it any other way. The internet has helped me a lot too.

;my question for you: why do think you "had to learn" programming from books? why couldn't you learn it the way you did blender, or system administration or any of the others things you've learned about linux?

;treehead

Well I could just start typing away and hope it did something but theres a lot of combinations of keys. I could look at some source code and guess and see what does what but with coding its easier to have the explainations of each command handed to you. I guess if I had enough time I could figure it out but it isn't like another program where the options are listed in front of you with a GUI (guess thats why GUI's are supposedly better for noobies).