Linux 0n MacTel and EFI

[Tsuroerusu]

I was saying how most opensource advocates are "spoiled" because we don't have to pay for much software so anything that costs money is less likely to be bought by open source advocates.

Well, I'd pay for a Linux version of FlashFXP, which is a really fantastic FTP/FXP client for Windows, because it 0wnz gFTP's ass big time.

I think that if you could buy a piece of software that was better than open source alternatives, you'd probably do that if you found the proprietary software worth while.

Personally I try to avoid proprietary software, but I can comprise on a few ocations.

[thetza]

Their computers. their chice.

Exactly. So chill out.

So basicly what you're saying is that Mac is better tham anything else and Steve Jobs will soon rule the world right? The litterally years of hard work the KDE and GNOME people has done is shat and Mac is the best for every person on this earth right?

Ahhhh, meaningless, abrasive insinuation and hyperbole, the lifeblood of the troll.

And Linux doesn't have vendor support? If you don't consider IBM, Oracle, HP, Sun, Intel, AMD and Dell vendors that's up to you.

A lot of that support is for high end consumers of servers. Not for jack and jill who want a working laptop.

http://www.novell.com/partnerguide/section/445.html
That's a a huge list of commercial apps certified for use with SUSE Linux, and there are a lot more software out there from commercial vendors.

Fine. Go around passing out Suse DVD's to people, and yell at them until they install it and tell you how great and almighty you are.

Well with that attitude we'll never get anymore games for Linux, if id software and Epic had that attitude, they wouldn't have developed Quake, Unreal Tournament, Doom.... for Linux. id software actually ended up earning money by supporting Linux, go ahead and ask them if you want, when the Linux version of Quake 3 came out, the sales of it made id software a few extra bucks.

How old are you?

Well, take a look at these discoveries:

http://www.grc.com/wmf/wmf.htm
http://www.sysinternals.com/Blog/

There you have a perfect example of why closed proprietary software development is not a good idea,

And yet you openly admit that you sometimes "compromise" and use proprietary software. That is hypocritical; you should either be a free software purest, or get off your soapbox.

If I were to move to the US, I would simply deny to leave my mum with a closed, proprietary operating system

Did anybody invite your mother to the US? Can I paint her ass with my tongue brush?

With free software I can know for sure what I'm using, and if you explain to people like my mum, a lot people would actually say "Hmmm, you're right" because the only person you really can trust in this world is yourself, so YOU can go look at the sourcecode and see if there's anything inappropiate in there, and if there is, take it right out.

I will pay money to whoever translates the above quote into a meaningful statement.

You lose.

[allan]

Can I paint her ass with my tongue brush?

A true Techshow Listener!

[snarkout]

How old are you?

IIRC, he's 17. This is most of the reason I didn't bother refuting his logic. He's a good kid, but he tends to get over-zealous sometimes.

Anyhow, this thread is more or less completely derailed at this point. I honestly didn't mean to start a shitstorm. I only meant to point out that for a lot of people I know who depend on unix, OS X is a better option than linux.

[Tsuroerusu]

A lot of that support is for high end consumers of servers. Not for jack and jill who want a working laptop.

OK, that I agree with, but saying Linux doesn't have "vendor support" is not true. ANd oh, if people are savy enough to install Linux themselves, they can probably manage to go to a forum and ask for some help.

Fine. Go around passing out Suse DVD's to people, and yell at them until they install it and tell you how great and almighty you are.

And you say I talk shit?
I just wanted to point out that there are plenty of proprietary commercial software for Linux, because some people seem to think that there isn't.

How old are you?

I'm 17, does age matter in your world?

And yet you openly admit that you sometimes "compromise" and use proprietary software. That is hypocritical; you should either be a free software purest, or get off your soapbox.

Well I can assure you that as soon as the GNU project gets their new Gnash project to a working state I will kick Macromedia's Flash Player right out of my machine.

Did anybody invite your mother to the US? Can I paint her ass with my tongue brush?

Let me assure you, you don't want to do that, my mum is 56

I will pay money to whoever translates the above quote into a meaningful statement.

Sounds like something ESR said to RMS and FSF.

You lose.

Well fair enough then.

IIRC, he's 17. This is most of the reason I didn't bother refuting his logic. He's a good kid, but he tends to get over-zealous sometimes.

So, should I understand that statement as if my logic is screwed up because of my age?

Anyhow, this thread is more or less completely derailed at this point. I honestly didn't mean to start a shitstorm.

Me neither I just got a little set up with your sentence: "it kicks the shat out of anything linux/bsd has to offer right now." because I strongly disagree with that, I've seen more people doing "WTF??" in front of OS X than with KDE. Also to me your post sounded like "I use Linux, but Mac is better, so screw Linux".

I only meant to point out that for a lot of people I know who depend on unix, OS X is a better option than linux.

As I said before, I don't agree with that.

[snarkout]

IIRC, he's 17. This is most of the reason I didn't bother refuting his logic. He's a good kid, but he tends to get over-zealous sometimes.

So, should I understand that statement as if my logic is screwed up because of my age?

<snip>

I only meant to point out that for a lot of people I know who depend on unix, OS X is a better option than linux.

As I said before, I don't agree with that.

This is what I was referring to. You are young enough that you think you can argue against reality. These are adults who have important jobs, families, and no time to fsck with setting up linux constantly. OS X does everything they need it to, and has support from vendors who wouldn't think of supporting linux. It also has both hardware and software support from one vendor. It uses aqua which *does* kick the shit out of anything X can do right now - period. If you need hard examples, it has composite OOTB and on by default, and working flawlessly. X? Right. Go setup xcompmgr and enjoy the slow buggy crap you get with that.

You also have a tendency to jump down peoples throats if they disagree with you. I've seen it several times. I make the assumption that this is because you are very young, and you are typing on a computer rather than speaking face to face with people. You need to contain your enthusuasm, and tone down your knee-jerk zealotry. You seem like a good kid, and you're spending your spare time hacking rather than shooting smack - this is good. It doesn't mean, however, that I have time or patience to argue with a walking logical fallacy.

[Tsuroerusu]

This is what I was referring to. You are young enough that you think you can argue against reality.

I've never argued against reality, only your statements about "OS X kicking the shat out of anything Linux and BSD can offer right now".

These are adults who have important jobs, families, and no time to fsck with setting up linux constantly.

Since when can't you as a family, run Linux? I have several family members using it, and I "think" that Pat, Linc and Dann "might" have something say about this one. One of my friends and his family, runs Windows, and I need to clean up their systems from spyware and crap about every three months or something like that, if they were to use Linux (My friend's dad works in a bank, if you consider the job into this) I would just have to show them how to do the stuff they do with Windows and maybe fix one little thing for them every six months or so.

OS X does everything they need it to, and has support from vendors who wouldn't think of supporting linux.

Now that I did not argue against, I argued with your statement: "It also has vendor support"
Because if you go buy Red Hat Enterprise, SUSE Enterprise or even commercial support from Canotical, you do indeed do have vendor support, so saying that Linux doesn't have vendor support is false in my opinion.

It also has both hardware and software support from one vendor.

I smell vendor lock-in on that statement....

You also have a tendency to jump down peoples throats if they disagree with you. I've seen it several times.

That depends, one thing I can't stand these days is all of the Ubuntu fan boys popooing every other desktop distro, even when Ubuntu is harder to use for beginners. For example, installing NVIDIA drivers in Ubuntu involves the use of the commandprompt, on SUSE (This is the distro I use, so I use it as the example, not *just* because I'm a big fan of it) it doesn't, you just basicly check a box and click Accept, wait two minutes and boom, done!
I agree I was a little hard on CptnObvious999, because he likes Gentoo, and AFAIR I did apologize for that.

I make the assumption that this is because you are very young, and you are typing on a computer rather than speaking face to face with people.

I'm a little similar to Linus Torvalds about this, he prefer to work with people over email than face to face, in some cases I prefer face to face discussions, especially if it's about stuff like one's love life, or issues related to that......... but in general, stuff like Linux I find is eaisier to discuss over the internet.

You need to contain your enthusuasm, and tone down your knee-jerk zealotry.

Well, if I were to be a complete fanatic, or something like that, I could throw out stuff like:

"GNOME sucks ass, KDE rulez!"
"Gentoo is for idiots"
"Everyone using Macs are bastards"

But I havn't done that, I agree that I've critizised GNOME, and explained why I don't use it, but I havn't gone so far to say that other people doesn't have their rights to like it or use it, and I've never said that "GNOME sucks" because there are a few things I like about it. I have made a little fun of the Gentoo fans, because of the, sometimes, utter long compiling sessions, and yes I have tried using Gentoo for a month, and I agree I went over the edge on that one and I did apologize for it. A lot of KDE and GNOME people, who've been fighting for years, are a lot older than me and so far I havn't been in a "flame war", I've participated in heavier discussions, but not something even close to the size of the classic "KDE vs. GNOME" wars, "vi vs. emacs", "Qt vs. GTK", "Linux vs. *BSD", "GPL vs. BSD-License", you get the idea.
And on this discussion of OS X, I only said that I didn't agree with your statement of it "kicking the shat of everything linux/bsd has to offer right now", and that it's not the right thing for everyone, but you know that's true for Linux as well, for gamers it's not the most ideal operating system, if you're a PC gamer, and not a console gamer like me, you need Windows for that, because all the popular games are being released for that platform.
I also agree that I said "OS X was crap for servers", which might have been a little hard, based on some benchmarks I've seen, but I of course could be completely wrong.

You seem like a good kid, and you're spending your spare time hacking rather than shooting smack - this is good.

Glad you think so, a lot of my friends started drinking when they were 13 years old, and a few of them started having sex at 14½. I don't drink, OK I do like a specific kind of danish beer at christmas but it's alcohol percentage is about 0,5% or something like that, it's really low, so I don't consider it drinking, because caffeine in Cola is not good in huge amounts as well.

It doesn't mean, however, that I have time or patience to argue with a walking logical fallacy.

Your time, your decision.

[thetza]

You also have a tendency to jump down peoples throats if they disagree with you.

just ignore him, trolls go away when they're ignored.

[Tsuroerusu]

trolls go away when they're ignored.

What's with that? I'm no troll, I'm a human dude!