Python Study Group proposal

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 9:23 am

Guys, we been talking about the Python study group on #techshow and I think is good if we move forward some of the questions that were brought up is:

What do we need to start?
- Common documentation
- Cookbook Samples/Excercises
- A wiki
- Mailing list
- IRC Channel (weekly meetings)

Why we need to learn Python for:
- Regular programming language?
- System administration?
- Software (desktop) development?
- Game development?
- Web Application development?

The answer: doesn't matter.

Should we put a new wiki or host it on the TLLTS?
I said to host it on TLLTS since it already has a wiki. Some differed.

Documentation?
Wikipedia's Python wikibook seemed the most up to date. Other proposal was Byte of Python.

Other reasource: Python Learning Foundation
Python.org

What should be the dynamic of the group?
IMO should be focusing on the wikibook as the documentation and have weekly meetings to discuss it. We should exchange code or samples and hacks from the cookbook samples.

Later on, we should go on learning the python base modules. And do 'show and tell' of the different modules.

Let's get hacking!!!

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 10:43 am

Great idea! I'm just sorry I missed out on the discussion in the IRC.

So, to be clear, is the plan to read a chapter a week from some of these books, have occasional discussions on IRC, or perhaps use a wiki as something of a "community chalkboard"? Of course projects would be cool. I think it would be a good experience to have everyone write a simple program and then compare what everyone comes up with.

Is there some pythonista among us who pretty well knows his stuff? It would be most helpful to have a "voice of experience" who would point out that someone like me has written horrid code or completely missed the point of oo programming and give a quick explanation why. Either way, I'd like to take part.

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:11 am

Well yeah thats the different dynamics, we can learn from a project. The issue that I have with this dynamics. It's very easy to lag behind, some people in the group might click and go with it, while others won't and there is really no way to identify who lagged. Even worst, it might click on different areas but be clueless on others. the advantage of a book is that everyone is moving ahead at the same time. Like we are all understanding 'array's' and the syntax, on the next we all learn functions and so on.

this is specially useful on python specifics things like lambda, associate keys and other things.

I think that a project will be useful to be done but at a later stage. A book is more to give structure and direction on what we are dealing at the moment.

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:16 pm

Yeah, following a book is the only way I can imagine staying together at all. I haven't any clever ideas for how to manage the "pace" of study, other than trying to start from the beginning and seeing how it goes. I like to think I have a good deal of patience, though that doesn't really help if I happen to be the one slowing things down...

Would you like to be the leader of this endeavor, Jza?

Also, would an SVN with separate branches for those involved be a good means of seeing each other's work?

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:31 pm

About the SVN, I have to say I dont have much experience wiht that, I do know CVS, but my experience is not that great. I feel is more convoluted than not. I mean on a wiki you just do a copy paste while cvs ( and I pressume svn) you have to do some commit.

I also find looking at code easier on a wiki that already has some color code feature (like mediawiki <code>[python) than an svn which might be much work to read the code.

I think svn is good viewing a project or an app but not for learning to coding. IMHO

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 2:48 pm

Obviously I gave that idea a lot of thought...

I added Subversion to my server for a little project I'm doing, and that plus Vim syntax is all I need. I imagine it's brilliant for keeping everyone on the same page for a project, but obviously a better fit for a possible project that might come at a later date than doing commits like mad while trying to "compare notes", where a wiki would make that quite easy.

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:18 pm

Vogateer wrote:Obviously I gave that idea a lot of thought...

I added Subversion to my server for a little project I'm doing, and that plus Vim syntax is all I need. I imagine it's brilliant for keeping everyone on the same page for a project, but obviously a better fit for a possible project that might come at a later date than doing commits like mad while trying to "compare notes", where a wiki would make that quite easy.

What about a planet? Should the wiki be enough, I personally think less is more but I still want to put some light on different ideas.

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 4:51 pm

I think you have the right idea with "less is more." I imagine a wiki would be easier and serve us well, and I imagine a planet would be more of a hassle, and it's probably better just to start giving things a try before we get too worried about implementation. I could be wrong and seem like I'm willing to just jump in unprepared, but at my organization, I see too many ideas get caught up in committee and people get so wrapped up in implementation and details that nothing ever gets done.

That's why I'm so fond of the idea of having a leader spearheading things, and since it seems like you're the one taking the initiative, I think we should trust your decision on these things, and if somewhere down the line you think we need more than a wiki, we can handle it then, even if it means making some mistakes so that we can learn from them.

Perhaps those interested should take a quick look at those two books you mentioned, or quickly come up with another recommendation, and go from there. Want to set a deadline to make a choice? It shouldn't take much time to glance at a few books and figure out which one appeals to more people.

riddlebox · Post by **riddlebox** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 5:44 pm

wow you guys are having a conversation all by yourselves lol, I want to join this group and learn more, than I can be one step closer to take over the world muahahahaha

Ryochan7 · Post by **Ryochan7** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 6:23 pm

That sounds like a really interesting idea. I would get in on it but I probably won't have enough time to get involved. I have been learning a little Python lately for a project that I am working on.

TankCatNinjaFish · Post by **TankCatNinjaFish** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 2:34 am

I think it's a fantastic idea. I created a wiki to get us started:
http://tllts-study-group.wikispot.org/
Though if anyone else can set up a better one I'd welcome it. (edit: I decided to go with a free hosted wiki b/c i realized setting up a wiki manually on my cheapo web host account was harder than it first seemed)

Jza · Post by **Jza** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:41 am

lol.... tounge brush central...... wonderful....

only issue is if the python code has color-coding parsing. Media wiki do but not sure if this one do.

TankCatNinjaFish · Post by **TankCatNinjaFish** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 4:15 am

hmmm yea, I tried mediaWiki but my web host doesn't have php5 (only 4). Anyone with a decent webhost/server wanna step up?

Ryochan7 · Post by **Ryochan7** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:09 am

I have thought about it and I am sure that I will have enough free time to get in on this. So, you can count me in.

Vogateer · Post by **Vogateer** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:56 am

I'm in as well.

I couldn't figure out how to color code the text using Wiki Spot, but I'm not sure if you can color code "preformatted" text in MediaWiki, either. A quick glance at the Python Wikibook and Byte of Python suggests that they just use preformatted text for code without color coding. I'll try to fiddle with Mediawiki today, but it may require a lot of work to preserve indentation and do color coding as well.