Stallman - Can we rescue OLPC from Windows?

[dann]

I do disagree that it's more important to get children in dire need of technology free software than any software.

I think there is far more benjefit to giving them free software than proprietary software.

Having used the sugar interface, while I agree that it's unusual to me because I was raised with a completely different set of GUI queues, I think it's basically crap, and I think that any child who's learned the sugar interface is going to have the same issue moving to a more standard interface.

The sugar interface is a sticky issue. On one hand, we have a situation that most people reviewing the OLPC and the sugar interface come pre-disposed to the more widespread windows interface and thus, the use is very alien. But then again, so is OS X's interface. One of the problems I keep seeing over and over with Linux systems is that they try to push the envelope with regards to interfaces and usability and while there may be studies that show such an interface is more accessible, given that it is a computer, people familiar with computers come with expectations and habits that are challenged by these interfaces. So the gOS e17, OX X and sugar interface are all difficult for people coming from a windows background to use.

I also have to admit that when I had the opportunity to use an OLPC at OLF last year I thought the interface was pokey.

I agree that having the source is nice - I disagree that it's likely a large number of children anywhere will be digging through the code to learn *how to code*, though. For instance, back in the apple/commodore days you could generally look at the code - my friends and I *did* pick up some tricks from that code, but I'd say that none of us actually learned how to program basic that way - we did the usual trick of reading books and borrowing knowledge from each other. That said, I'll never be a coder, so wtf do I know? At this point I'm basically a packet jockey who also admins some linux servers when I have time or when something goes boom, so perhaps my viewpoint has become horribly warped or skewed.

I agree whole-heartedly with you on this. I would suspect that 95% of the kids using these systems are not going to program. But also understand, that it is not only to get th kids to program but for a world of developers to be able to contribute programs to the OLPC project without the huge barrier of cost that comes with Windows development. Furthermore, they are not beholden to a commercial entity in the US for updates and advancements. We have seen time and again that the first shot MS gives you is free or very cheap, but then the upkeep is outrageous. What hits they take on the frontend are made up for in the backend.

[allix]

We have seen time and again that the first shot MS gives you is free or very cheap, but then the upkeep is outrageous. What hits they take on the frontend are made up for in the backend.

I see what you mean, its like a free game of roulette and then your hooked and in debt.

[snarkout]

I did some thinking on why RMS pisses me off so badly some times and came up with this - has he asked the recipients of these machines what they'd prefer? Is it at all possible that they don't want or need him rattling his saber in their "defense?" Is choice only a good thing when that choice is the one RMS wants you to make? Is it al all possible that people on the receiving end of OLPC might actually *want* windows xp loaded on their devices? Believe me, I hate microsoft more than most people, and can oly assume they'll try to fcuk olpc up as badly as they can (can it actually get any more fcuked up at this point?) if they aren't the only OS shipped on it. However, is it RMS's (or any of his ilk) place to determine what software children he, as far as I know, does not represent in any way shape or form, and whose needs and interests he cannot possibly know?

FWIW, I just finished the Chess Griffin episode, and you guys broached this subject briefly, saying many of the things I tried to say here. Other than the obvious closed nature of MS, I cannot see how people in countries known for massive piracy and counterfeit trade can see a difference between FOSS and MS. Both are essentially cost free, but one has a significantly larger userbase - if you're a parent in these areas whose hopes and dreams are that your child grows up and develops software or does tech support, wouldn't you want to give them the best shot of landing a job? Like it or not, to me in that position at least, this would mean MS - it's a lot easier to care about freedom when you're not gambling your future on it being marketable in some way, no?

Flame away.

[allix]

Is choice only a good thing when that choice is the one RMS wants you to make? I

Well bsd could be an option too or anything not *nix related, ive never heard rms say its go to be a linux or use the gnu tools.

[Shanghai]

Ah, hell, I'm going to drop this one since I don't care either way and it appears that no one is really "hearing" what I'm saying in any case. I don't think there are very many people in china who are feeling the crushing price blow from their counterfeit MS products, though.

I agree! I lived in Shanghai the last 4.5 years and the rampage of piracy is sickening. Even big government companies use pirated software and nobody gives a shit.
I went to Hong Kong last weekend and I read a review of the eeePc with XP. It started off something like finally with got the eeePc with XP instead of that Linux OS that nobody uses then they continued the review and the conclusion was that it was pretty useless even they fixed the problem with the Linux OS. Basically it was only useful as a complement computer for students.
I'm glad I'm moving back to Europe it's going to be interesting to see if Linux has made any progress back home.

[Tsuroerusu]

I'm glad I'm moving back to Europe it's going to be interesting to see if Linux has made any progress back home.

It depends on which country you're in (Where are you in fact from? ). Germany is generally the country I have heard the most from, however don't fool yourself and think that Microsoft is in any sort of danger of loosing any significant money (At their scale) over it.

[Shanghai]

It depends on which country you're in (Where are you in fact from? ). Germany is generally the country I have heard the most from, however don't fool yourself and think that Microsoft is in any sort of danger of loosing any significant money (At their scale) over it.

I'm moving back to Sweden and you're probably right MS will be the main platform still even for me as an automotive designer (there's not my choice in my profession unfortunately).
At least I don't have to deal with customers running pirated versions of Windows and CAD software. It was interesting to see that Peugeout was buying Linux desktops but I don't think it will be used in Product Design because I know they use the same CAD Software as I am (Catia V5) which doesn't have a Linux version (at least not yet though I'm hoping it will change).

[allix]

That's interesting, do you design hybrid vehicles?

[Shanghai]

That's interesting, do you design hybrid vehicles?

I wish I did! No, I'm only working on conventional automotive projects on the other hand I'm not working in the engine & chassis area more like Body(BIW) and Interior design which is not that much dependent on the engine technology (except in case of crash & safety because of the configuration engine versus batteries where in fact the big fat petrol engines is a major factor. Would you like to have an 12 cylinder engine crushing your knees?).
I recently watched the documentary "who killed the electric car" which I enjoyed but it also made me very angry. Why aren't technologies developing in my line of business because it's so fucking corrupt there are no excuses to our oil dependency in my opinion!