allix wrote:Tsuroerusu wrote:
Well I don't dispute that, but are you telling me that Amnesty's irrepressible Internet campaign is more effective at getting freedom of expression to China than tools that actually undermines the totalitarian control? It's essentially the Internet version of giving weapons to opposition groups, like when British planes dropped stuff to be received by Danish resistance during the Nazi occupation.
That irrepressible internet campaign is just very very very very very very very very tiny thing of what amnesty do.
OK, but then insert any sort of protest campaign as the example, against something like the Beijing government, they don't work! Simple.
allix wrote:I'd love to see the day software liberates China. I think you give way too much emphasise software being a liberating tool , british planes gave arms , arms can destroy an enemy , a piece of software cannot.
You know, I really think you need to read my posts better, because I find it a little frustrating that I have to write a novel every time I say freaking anything so that there is next to no chance of it being misinterpreted. I was explicitly talking about freedom of expression, not a giant revolutionary reform that introduced democracy. Crypto is absolutely a tool in the arsenal of freedom of expression, which then in turn can be a means for something larger. Also, the Internet has changed the world, why do you think the Chinese government is so scared of it being unrestricted? Because they know that it conveys information that in the long-term would undermine their power. I am not so dumb as to think that computers, the Internet or software is what will bring democracy to China, if that's what you thought that I was claiming, then you need to re-read what I wrote.
allix wrote:Tsuroerusu wrote:
First of all, President Bush has showed us that you can't go invade a nation and expect to be greeted as liberators. Most Chinese wouldn't at all support such an operation. And secondly, if you want to start World War 3, be my guest, but you'd have an extremely long-running conflict on your hands with an invasion of China, that'd take up ginormous amounts of resources, and with a high risk of failure.
Fair enough, but software is not going make China democratic, its laughable to think so.
AND I DID NOT !!!!! Sorry, but that I take offense to, do you think that I am that dumb?
allix wrote:I think either democratic elections or some revolution and that just means a change in a short period of time it does not have to be violent either.
I am fully aware of the Tiananmen Square protests of 1989 where the Chinese army ran over protesters. Ironically the western world with its democracy is happy to get Chinese workers make our goods. I am not blind to the arguments that if we don't they be in a worse situation and that its not our problem that they bosses are pricks and don't pay proper wages.
Well if you have a better suggestion, what is it?
allix wrote:In all of this I would like know how software is going to create a unprecedented wave of change that the world has yet to see in China?
It's not going to, and I did not claim it did. I was talking about freedom of expression explicitly, not a regime change.
allix wrote:I think your going to reply that the software allows them to report on events without being traced or secretly.
Well many Chinese Students come to America and Europe either as students or to escape and work , they are now free from the oppressive government in America or Europe to report, sure some do, but none have made anything very big.
Well, good for them, I don't blame them for not making a big stink about it, anything they write is gonna be censored in China anyway!
