thelinuxlink.net

Ok, so I am a dick then. This has been completely non-productive. I will make sure in the future that I don't express any non-standard and approved opinions, and that I gleefully accept nasty little hate mails.
Be happy!

At worst one might describe you as abrasive, and even then I don't think I've ever been even remotely “distracted.” You're far less abrasive than Stallman, whom these same people would probably defend to the end as being impassioned or some other similar euphemism. Whether you're passionate or abrasive usually depends on whether the person using the term agrees with you or not.

Perhaps you could be more diplomatic, but diplomacy hardly makes for the informal, off-the-cuff discussions we all enjoy. I hate it when people feel like they have to think twice before they can speak, tripping over their own words trying to figure out a way to not piss people off.

Well I was planning a post later to take issue with your attitude towards users after listening to your rant on last nights show.

For now I'd say that it's inappropriate to post a private email, specifically with the persons name and email, to the public board without the senders consent. If you had a policy in place that mails sent to the show are subject to those conditions that's fine.

Had you just come on here and ranted about users complaining about you that's different. Subjecting an unsuspecting person to to a public forum of /your/ 'fans' in particular is just pettiness on your part. He sent it via email per his choice. You took advantage of that.

I know that now I would not be able to trust sending messages to any of you guys without worrying about what would happen with that info. I am now worried about the info that I provided to your questionnaire, what will be done with it, and certainly will not fill one out again.

Although I may not always agree with your oppinions Linc, I admire the fact that you have the balls to express them even to people such as Stallman. If everyone blindly agrees it can get kind of boring, the argument with Stallman was IMHO the best part of the show because hearing him preach to me for a whole episode is not appealing or fun (one of the many reasons Linus is my hero )

Also I agree with chuck, and think you should at least post that email as anonymous on the boards but you have the right to argue with me about that.

chuck wrote:I know that now I would not be able to trust sending messages to any of you guys without worrying about what would happen with that info. I am now worried about the info that I provided to your questionnaire, what will be done with it, and certainly will not fill one out again.

<sarcasm>We're waiting for the big paycheck for selling your information to spammers and junkmail vendors. Tahiti here we come!</sarcasm>

Seriously, we would never disclose your private information. I believe Dan has already disposed of it.

I hadn't thought about that, but leaving the guy's email out would have been appropriate. If you don't generally think about sending nasty emails to people, it probably doesn't occur to you that other people might do just that. Depends on Linc's intent on this one.

I know I get frustrated with users all the time. Much of my frustration comes from—depending on the situation—either believing that I suck at teaching people or that some people just don't want to put forth the effort to learn and just want me to do everything for them. When it's a part of your job to do these things, you should put forth the effort and at least try to learn, after all.

I never think of users as being idiots, though. I generally believe that there's “no stupid question”—though once someone did ask me at the bank to tell them what checks hadn't cleared the bank—and have never berated anyone for asking me something about computers, no matter how simple. The reason they don't know as much as I do is that they didn't spend hours a day trying to figure stuff out as a kid, and don't enjoy them. Some people love their cars and spend weekends cleaning and tweaking them, I try to learn python and linux. I don't give them shit for not knowing about computers as long as they don't give me shit about not knowing my car inside and out.

I do remember linc admitting that he was not good or could not be bothered to learn how to fix cars, which does show to me that linc is not belittling anybody

After all there were no curse words involved , just some observation that goes on during his working life.

To some it can come across as harsh, but i don't think linc was trying to offend anybody.
Maybe he had a bad day at work and had to let loose some anger on something and that had to be at less techy computer users.

chuck wrote:Well I was planning a post later to take issue with your attitude towards users after listening to your rant on last nights show.

For now I'd say that it's inappropriate to post a private email, specifically with the persons name and email, to the public board without the senders consent. If you had a policy in place that mails sent to the show are subject to those conditions that's fine.

Had you just come on here and ranted about users complaining about you that's different. Subjecting an unsuspecting person to to a public forum of /your/ 'fans' in particular is just pettiness on your part. He sent it via email per his choice. You took advantage of that.

I know that now I would not be able to trust sending messages to any of you guys without worrying about what would happen with that info. I am now worried about the info that I provided to your questionnaire, what will be done with it, and certainly will not fill one out again.

Well, you know what? I am sick and tired of pantywaists sending me emails where they pick their supposed moral high ground and stand on their pedestal and call me names and tell me how I should run my show and that if it were theirs they would/could do a better job. I somehow fail to see how any such communication could be considered, by any party, as helpful, beneficial, or constructive. I *do*, however, see there is a double standard though in as far as there are people like yourself who will gleefully get offended for me voicing *my* opinions.

Subjecting unsuspecting people to my opinions on a forum filled with my fans...: Well you're ragging on me and you're here - in fact, you mentioned you were also going to send me a troll letter later on. Now as for the fans part, are there any? I haven't had any positive feedback in a long while, just trolls like you.

Now, as for the information contained in the questionnaire, we all stated that that would be private, and it is. As for your not filling one out again, that's great. Give someone else a chance at winning something, which is plainly what any personal information was asked about for. As for any other of the comments, I think it's pretty safe to assume now that you are one of those very few complainers we got on the survey. Probably one of the ones that keeps getting me confused with Pat.

allix wrote:I do remember linc admitting that he was not good or could not be bothered to learn how to fix cars, which does show to me that linc is not belittling anybody

After all there were no curse words involved , just some observation that goes on during his working life.

To some it can come across as harsh, but i don't think linc was trying to offend anybody.
Maybe he had a bad day at work and had to let loose some anger on something and that had to be at less techy computer users.

I decided a long time ago to be honest. Not only to myself, but to other people as well. If I see someone that should not use a computer, I have no problem telling them that. The funny part is most of them agree wholeheartedly. They don't *want* to use the computer, but are required to. That's why I said that I think making those little internet appliances that don't really do anything would be great! Take all the complicated computing away from the unwashed masses, but don't take mine away from me, because I *like* that complicated and fancy and highly configurable interface.. etc... I don't see this attitude as any different than telling some people they should not do their own taxes. Some people just *do not* have the capacity to do so without screwing things up horribly.

People have a tendency to think I am harsh because I am honest and honesty does not always imply telling you something you want to hear. That is diplomacy. I am not a diplomat.

I haven't really thought to send positive feedback. I am pretty selfish, though.

Linc, I usually like what you have to say, and I'm glad you're there and aggressive enough to not let some jerk like Stallman try to steamroll you. That's a Hell of a lot better than sitting back and not saying anything because you're afraid people will disagree with you. You do a good job, man.

"A diplomat is someone who can tell you to go to Hell in such a way that you actually look forward to the trip.”

Linc, I for one always appreciate the cynical, skeptical take you bring to many issues on the show. It usually provides the opportunity for debate and getting deeper into an issue. I see you as kind of the "Amazing Randi" of the show, always looking for the smoke and mirrors to expose, and sometimes that just pisses people off... too bad. By the way, I agree with you 100% about not sacrificing "usability" for "ease of use" in Linux. I'm all for evangalizing the benifits of Linux, but I don't think it would be a good idea for Linux to pursue a development agenda aimed at converting people who are too stupid to get their software anywhere else but on a storeshelf in Circuit City. Dann, what are you thinking???

greggh wrote:By the way, I agree with you 100% about not sacrificing "usability" for "ease of use" in Linux. I'm all for evangalizing the benifits of Linux, but I don't think it would be a good idea for Linux to pursue a development agenda aimed at converting people who are too stupid to get their software anywhere else but on a storeshelf in Circuit City. Dann, what are you thinking???

Hmm, okay, then lets just give up on that entire market and let them go to Mac OS X or Windows. That is not a solution. There is no such thing as a stupid user. Only stupid developers who don't understand the needs of their users. The problem with many open source programmers is that they are designing interfaces that make sense TO THEM, not typical end users.

One of the fantastic things about the open source community is that there is so much choice. Advanced users can have applications that suite their needs, and less sophisticated users can have applications that suite their needs. There's no reason why we would have to sacrifice usability for ease of use. We can have it both ways.

Linc wrote:Well, you know what? I am sick and tired of pantywaists sending me emails where they pick their supposed moral high ground and stand on their pedestal and call me names and tell me how I should run my show and that if it were theirs they would/could do a better job. I somehow fail to see how any such communication could be considered, by any party, as helpful, beneficial, or constructive. I *do*, however, see there is a double standard though in as far as there are people like yourself who will gleefully get offended for me voicing *my* opinions.

Well the helpful part is if you listened to the constructive criticism as something other than an attack. Just because people disagree with your opinions does not mean that they or you are wrong. Just that you see things from different angles.

My original post in this thread was to point out that you have the right to rant, but not to take a message that was sent to you and publicize that information without regards to the privacy of that person. Had you not included identifying information I would have responded differently to your points.

I am not offended by you voicing your opinions. Even when I feel that you are wrong you have a right to them. Just as I and others have a right to express our opinions. If you disagree with them fine, but to disrespect your listeners by betraying their confidences, that takes your rants too far.

Linc wrote:Subjecting unsuspecting people to my opinions on a forum filled with my fans...: Well you're ragging on me and you're here - in fact, you mentioned you were also going to send me a troll letter later on. Now as for the fans part, are there any? I haven't had any positive feedback in a long while, just trolls like you.

So any message that is sent to you or posted here that takes a contrary position to yours is a troll? You really need to unwind and figure out what a troll is. From the Urban Dictionary:

One who posts a deliberately provocative message to a newsgroup or message board with the intention of causing maximum disruption and argument

A disagreement is not a trollish action.

Linc wrote:Now, as for the information contained in the questionnaire, we all stated that that would be private, and it is. As for your not filling one out again, that's great. Give someone else a chance at winning something, which is plainly what any personal information was asked about for. As for any other of the comments, I think it's pretty safe to assume now that you are one of those very few complainers we got on the survey. Probably one of the ones that keeps getting me confused with Pat.

You see your reaction to all of this is exactly why I am dubious about providing any other information. What happens if I did say in a comment 'I don't like Linc's attitude'. Are you going to make a post here decrying my statement when you asked for that opinion?

If you are going to be doing a show for everyone to listen to you have to make some realizations and choices. The first is that everything you believe is considered wrong by at least one other person somewhere out there. You will hear from that person at some point. If you do not want responses to what you say on your show, do not offer a forum or email address to be contacted at.

If it help you to sleep tonight, write me off as a troll. I know I'll sleep well no matter what your opinion is of me.





This is a quote:
"Hey drop us a line about the show. Feel free to ask questions, provide feedback and criticism, or just ramble on about anything your little heart desires."

Patrick wrote:

chuck wrote:I know that now I would not be able to trust sending messages to any of you guys without worrying about what would happen with that info. I am now worried about the info that I provided to your questionnaire, what will be done with it, and certainly will not fill one out again.

<sarcasm>We're waiting for the big paycheck for selling your information to spammers and junkmail vendors. Tahiti here we come!</sarcasm>

Seriously, we would never disclose your private information. I believe Dan has already disposed of it.

It wasn't the private info that I was concerned about being sold or given away. I don't think that I provided that anyway.

My concern was that if I did respond negatively to Linc or any other member of the show is that going to show up here in the forums on the butt end of a rant?

"chuck@somewhere.com did not like the fact that we do <something> on the show. How dare he say that. He's such an idiot thinking that. How could anyone be like that. etc etc"

If you all are going to provide a way of feedback, you have to accept the good and the bad. Write off the bad and move on. Abusing the listeners is not the best way to gain positive publicity.