thelinuxlink.net

http://www.javalobby.org/java/forums/t73163.html
"In his Weblog entry last week, Jonathan Schwartz wrote that "despite the cynics, using a GPL license is very much *on* the table" as a possible option for open source Java. Schwartz also reported that Sun is making serious progress on open sourcing Java.

"we're now making serious progress on open sourcing Java (and despite the cynics, using a GPL license is very much *on* the table), while focusing the debate on what matters most: not access to lines of code (that's already widely available), but ensuring compatibility," said Schwartz "

I think it would be great if Sun choose the GPL, but I think for them, the LGPL might be better.

I don't want them to "consider" I want them to do it, dammit

CptnObvious999 wrote:I don't want them to "consider" I want them to do it, dammit

Well, Java is big, so it needs to be well thought out, and this time I really want them to do this, so let the guys take their time to think it through, but Richard Green said clearly "it's not a question of wheather, it's a question of how, so we will go do this", and I think it's credible this time.

Tsuroerusu wrote:

CptnObvious999 wrote:I don't want them to "consider" I want them to do it, dammit

Well, Java is big, so it needs to be well thought out, and this time I really want them to do this, so let the guys take their time to think it through, but Richard Green said clearly "it's not a question of wheather, it's a question of how, so we will go do this", and I think it's credible this time.

I know its a big decision although they have probly been seriously thinking about it or they never would have told everyone. I find it odd they have said publicly they are thinking about it instead of waiting until the decision is finished, maybe they are waiting to see public oppinion on it. One things for sure it would sure help package maintainers with java based programs. Hopefully this will lead to a faster JVM and maybe we can make AWT look like something that doesn't come out of my ass (sorry but its true ). This would also allow distros to include Java so that web browsers can use those java applets out of the box (less missing functionality and more happy users ).

CptnObvious999 wrote:One things for sure it would sure help package maintainers with java based programs.

Yeah, a program like Azureus should be included with every distro in my opinion!

CptnObvious999 wrote:This would also allow distros to include Java so that web browsers can use those java applets out of the box (less missing functionality and more happy users ).

Yeah, and Java would be Free Software, so we would get a happy RMS out of it, and it can be ported to run on NetBSD and OpenBSD on every damn architecture, I've really missed Java on the BSDs, because of my addiction to Azureus!

What does Sun expect? That all the f/oss hackers will flock to Java when/if its GPL'ed? Sorry, but that ship sailed maybe 6 years ago. Because frankly, we don't need them anymore. I hope Sun finally goes bankrupt.

thetza wrote:What does Sun expect? That all the f/oss hackers will flock to Java when/if its GPL'ed? Sorry, but that ship sailed maybe 6 years ago. Because frankly, we don't need them anymore. I hope Sun finally goes bankrupt.

Jonathan Schwartz have said in the past that they might consider using the GPLv3 for Solaris, since a significant amount of their customers prefer it to the CDDL license or whatever it's called.

I don't think A LOT of people will flock to Java, but I think it'll get to be a lot more interesting in some people's eyes.

If Sun went bankrupt, we'd have a problem, becausethey are the largest contributor to OpenOffice, with Novell in a nice second place on that.

Again, say Solaris is placed under GPLv3. So what? The community already has a working, technically superior kernel and everything else necesary for a free operating system. We don't need Solaris. We needed them 12 years ago, but not anymore.

And you bring up an interesting point about OOo. I don't personally know much about openoffice (i use latex) and haven't used it too much since the pre-1.0 days. But if its improved significantly, I propose a following business model to Sun:
Abandon Java, Solaris, and your crappy hardware. Instead consolidate all your energy into OpenOffice. Stop cloning MS Office and start adding new features. Use your corporate muscle and eat away at the MS Office market share. Give away the software, make a bundle on the support. Voila.

thetza wrote:Again, say Solaris is placed under GPLv3. So what? The community already has a working, technically superior kernel and everything else necesary for a free operating system. We don't need Solaris. We needed them 12 years ago, but not anymore.

If Sun GPLv3'ed (Can you even say that?) their entire Solaris operating system, I would be very interested in it, not only because the process of modernizing it that might occour would be interesting, but also just because I think having more Free Software is always good, and if Sun turned into "an open source company" like Red Hat or Novell, wouldn't that benefit the community? I think it would, I think they should give Solaris to the community, and try to make a business on OpenOffice now that Microsoft Office 2007 is gonna have a so different interface, I think Sun could get a hell of a chance here.

I am generally more positive towards Sun, because of the good they HAVE done, they have done some weird stuff too, and they seem to aim towards a more open attitude, but we'll see.

For example, I don't get why some people hate Red Hat, I have no problem with Red Hat.

Abandon Java? You guys sound like radical nutters. ... I mean that's just laughable. I must say, the idea that Sun should simply abandon everything and simply work on Open Office .. is just stupid. I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.

Anyway, with respect to placing Solaris, Java, etc under GPL, the problem is also that Sun may not own the rights in order to do that yet, certainly that was the case with Solaris. As far as "v3," well that is not a big issue for me, the Linux kernel is not and will not (in the forseeable future anyway) be licensed under GPLv3.

As for pleasing RMS ... well good luck with that one. I'm sure it burns him alive that TLLTS is not TGLLTS.


I think this is great. I'm not a Java fanboy but I think its a great platform which indirectly also has a large impact on the number of Linux installs. Most J2EE apps that I've ever come across have been run on Linux, usually with Jboss.

vagrant wrote:Abandon Java? You guys sound like radical nutters. ... I mean that's just laughable. I must say, the idea that Sun should simply abandon everything and simply work on Open Office .. is just stupid. I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.

I never said abandon Java, I said abandon Solaris, because that thing is just too old these days. Java seems like a solid platform, even to me as a non-programmer, and why abandon that?

vagrant wrote:Anyway, with respect to placing Solaris, Java, etc under GPL, the problem is also that Sun may not own the rights in order to do that yet, certainly that was the case with Solaris.

Well, that is why this kind of stuff takes time to do, Sun could also do like the BSD hackers did back in the mind 80', and release what they can and by with the community's help, rewrite the missing pieces from scratch.

vagrant wrote:As far as "v3," well that is not a big issue for me, the Linux kernel is not and will not (in the forseeable future anyway) be licensed under GPLv3.

I was just thinking on the Java issues, when the guys had him on the show, he explicidly said that he didn't want "to start painting Sun as a monsters, and forcing Sun to act like a monster", I think a GPLing of Java would be great for everybody.

vagrant wrote:Abandon Java? You guys sound like radical nutters. ... I mean that's just laughable. I must say, the idea that Sun should simply abandon everything and simply work on Open Office .. is just stupid. I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.

Anyway, with respect to placing Solaris, Java, etc under GPL, the problem is also that Sun may not own the rights in order to do that yet, certainly that was the case with Solaris. As far as "v3," well that is not a big issue for me, the Linux kernel is not and will not (in the forseeable future anyway) be licensed under GPLv3.

As for pleasing RMS ... well good luck with that one. I'm sure it burns him alive that TLLTS is not TGLLTS.


I think this is great. I'm not a Java fanboy but I think its a great platform which indirectly also has a large impact on the number of Linux installs. Most J2EE apps that I've ever come across have been run on Linux, usually with Jboss.

Java and Gosling have done irreparable damage to the industry as a whole. Sun should take responsibilty and just die gracefully. And whats wrong with companies concentrating at what they're good at? Sun? Office suites. Apple? Digital music players. Microsoft? Ergonomic keyboards.

thetza wrote: Java and Gosling have done irreparable damage to the industry as a whole.

Care to elaborate?

thetza wrote:

vagrant wrote:Abandon Java? You guys sound like radical nutters. ... I mean that's just laughable. I must say, the idea that Sun should simply abandon everything and simply work on Open Office .. is just stupid. I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.

Anyway, with respect to placing Solaris, Java, etc under GPL, the problem is also that Sun may not own the rights in order to do that yet, certainly that was the case with Solaris. As far as "v3," well that is not a big issue for me, the Linux kernel is not and will not (in the forseeable future anyway) be licensed under GPLv3.

As for pleasing RMS ... well good luck with that one. I'm sure it burns him alive that TLLTS is not TGLLTS.


I think this is great. I'm not a Java fanboy but I think its a great platform which indirectly also has a large impact on the number of Linux installs. Most J2EE apps that I've ever come across have been run on Linux, usually with Jboss.

Java and Gosling have done irreparable damage to the industry as a whole. Sun should take responsibilty and just die gracefully. And whats wrong with companies concentrating at what they're good at? Sun? Office suites. Apple? Digital music players. Microsoft? Ergonomic keyboards.

Naked assertion. What "irreperable damage" have they done to "the industry?" Many in the "industry" would say Sun has provided great contributions to the industry. I'm not sure for what you want them to take responsibility? So do you dismiss projects such as Tomcat and Jboss with such ubstantiated ignorant fervor?

I think its pretty silly for you to write Sun Microsystems off as "an office suite company." That's pretty incendiary.

I must ask, do you even know anything about Java?

Snarkout wrote:

thetza wrote: Java and Gosling have done irreparable damage to the industry as a whole.

Care to elaborate?

i could write a 10 page essay, but I'll keep it to 2 strong points: its floating point implementation and the detrimental effect it has had on education and a generation of CS students.