Stealing your neighbors wi-fi

[Patrick]

http://tinyurl.com/8xucw

This is more of an issue in urban areas but it's becoming pretty widespread. I remember getting a wireless card for my old laptop about 4 years ago. Firing it up in my living and having free range to several open access points. It's the old plug it in and forget about it mentality that most sheeple have. How many access points called 'linksys' do you see when trying to connect?

[Judland]

I blogged about this sort of thing last month.

Thought I'd share.

[learnix]

I just moved into a new apartment and one of my neighbors has open wireless. PCs and router wide open and not password protected.

[Patrick]

Another article on this topic:
http://www.smallbizpipeline.com/168601673

[jsusanka]

if you are doing something or taking something from an owner a tangible product without their consent then you are in my book stealing. In this case you can't see the tangible product but the owner is paying for bandwidth so you are stealing his bandwidth.

I am lazy in that I only use mac filtering on my access point and internet acess. I just don't want to deal with wep,wpa keys when I go between a coffee shop and my house. That said you would have to come up with a pretty good tennis can to use my access point because I live in an old brick house - actually three layers of brick (along with couple coats of plaster - built in 1933) on the outside so I can't go beyond my patio outside in the back yard to get a signal and our patio is right outside our house and about 50 - 60 feet from the access point.

but I look at my logs daily - have them emailed to my linux box and also have a box set up to have a syslog daemon excepting entries so I am diligent about checking them and I pretty much know the internet access patterns of my wife and I.

Now would I give access to my neighbors - you bet if they ask me I would be more than willing to give them access. But to me if you are mac spoofing and using a tennis can to use my access point without me knowing then you are stealing and I would prosecute if I found out or caught you .

[mrben]

Using somebody elses broadband without permission is, indeed, theft. However, there are projects (in the UK at least) to try and get people to open up and register their wifi/broadband connection so that everyone can get free wifi everywhere, which is a pretty cool idea. I guess the best thing would be to operate it like anonymous ftp, where you login with your email.

[bosshoff]

if you are doing something or taking something from an owner a tangible product without their consent then you are in my book stealing. In this case you can't see the tangible product but the owner is paying for bandwidth so you are stealing his bandwidth.

I am lazy in that I only use mac filtering on my access point and internet acess. I just don't want to deal with wep,wpa keys when I go between a coffee shop and my house. That said you would have to come up with a pretty good tennis can to use my access point because I live in an old brick house - actually three layers of brick (along with couple coats of plaster - built in 1933) on the outside so I can't go beyond my patio outside in the back yard to get a signal and our patio is right outside our house and about 50 - 60 feet from the access point.

but I look at my logs daily - have them emailed to my linux box and also have a box set up to have a syslog daemon excepting entries so I am diligent about checking them and I pretty much know the internet access patterns of my wife and I.

Now would I give access to my neighbors - you bet if they ask me I would be more than willing to give them access. But to me if you are mac spoofing and using a tennis can to use my access point without me knowing then you are stealing and I would prosecute if I found out or caught you .

The question about whether wireless bandwidth theft is illegal cannot be logically disputed. However, there is still something to be said about idiots who cannot secure their own routers. Yes, it would be wrong for me to steal someone's car if they left the doors open and the key in the ignition, but it would also result in everyone being able to legitimately call the owner of said vehicle a freakn moron. Point is, instead of arguing about whether it is right or wrong, just secure your shit and there's no problems.

[learnix]

I also agree that using somebodies else's wifi is stealing. But I would not lump it in the same category of stealing a car. Trouble shooting several connection with clients and such I have found that allot of people could be using their neighbor's wireless and not even know. Ask yourself this. How often do you drive away in another persons car not know it isn't yours?

In my new apartment for example. My wife fires up the laptop to try and get in the Internet. She ends up coming to me and saying she can't get on. I inform her it is due to us not having a Internet connection yet A few days go by and we finally get a connection. I setup my router and I am online with my desktop. She comes to me saying she still can't get on. T-shooting I find she has an IP, GW, and subnet. I try and pull up the web interface of the router and it comes up. WITHOUT any password. Wait a sec. This is not my router. I check the SSID and it turns out she connected to our neighbors router a few day earlier. She is not even close to being a computer savvy person so it never occurred to her that when our router was not setup the laptop connected her to an open wireless AP that it found.

So I was on their wireless and in their router. Did I break any laws? hmmm

[bosshoff]

You are absolutely right, unknowingly "stealing" wireless should not be a crime. It is just hard to ascertain whether or not someone knew they were doing it, so it is best to just make it illegal and let the courts sort it out.

EDIT: oh, and your neighbor's an idiot, that's all I was trying to point out with my last post; I by no means think stealing wireless is as serious a crime as stealing someone's car.

[Judland]

I also agree that using somebodies else's wifi is stealing. But I would not lump it in the same category of stealing a car. Trouble shooting several connection with clients and such I have found that allot of people could be using their neighbor's wireless and not even know. Ask yourself this. How often do you drive away in another persons car not know it isn't yours?

In my new apartment for example. My wife fires up the laptop to try and get in the Internet. She ends up coming to me and saying she can't get on. I inform her it is due to us not having a Internet connection yet A few days go by and we finally get a connection. I setup my router and I am online with my desktop. She comes to me saying she still can't get on. T-shooting I find she has an IP, GW, and subnet. I try and pull up the web interface of the router and it comes up. WITHOUT any password. Wait a sec. This is not my router. I check the SSID and it turns out she connected to our neighbors router a few day earlier. She is not even close to being a computer savvy person so it never occurred to her that when our router was not setup the laptop connected her to an open wireless AP that it found.

So I was on their wireless and in their router. Did I break any laws? hmmm

No, I wouldn't classify this as stealing, either. I'd call this an error. You're paying for Internet access; you just didn't know you were accessing your neighbors account. There is a difference.

Knowing you don't pay for Internet access, yet for some magical reason you have it.... that's something different.

There's nothing wrong with free WiFi either, as long as the person who's providing it knows he/she's giving away free access to others.

[Judland]

Point is, instead of arguing about whether it is right or wrong, just secure your shat and there's no problems.

If you found a person's wallet on the street with a thousand dollars and his driver's license in it, would you return it in-tact or would you keep it and say "well, if the moron would just not have dropped it, he wouldn't have a problem."?

People make mistakes or are not educated about all that they're in danger of losing... etc. I'd probably go tell my neighbor of their situation and educate them on how to protect themselves.

Of course, this is only my opinion.

[dann]

My problem with using another persons wifi acess ends at their propertly line. Beyond their propertly line is fair game.

One could take the high road and inform the person about their lack of a secure wireless point; and that should be done especially in the case of a neighbor.

Taking the time out to educate a stranger can be a bit trickier especially if you cannot pinpoint the exact location as to where the signal is coming from.

Now if I lived in an apartment complex and was getting wireless signals from an unknown source; then why should a person not use it?

If you found a person's wallet on the street with a thousand dollars and his driver's license in it, would you return it in-tact or would you keep it and say "well, if the moron would just not have dropped it, he wouldn't have a problem."?

I would return it intact of course. But if that person kept throwing his wallet through my window, that would be another story.

[CptnObvious999]

My problem with using another persons wifi acess ends at their propertly line. Beyond their propertly line is fair game.

One could take the high road and inform the person about their lack of a secure wireless point; and that should be done especially in the case of a neighbor.

Taking the time out to educate a stranger can be a bit trickier especially if you cannot pinpoint the exact location as to where the signal is coming from.

Now if I lived in an apartment complex and was getting wireless signals from an unknown source; then why should a person not use it?

If you found a person's wallet on the street with a thousand dollars and his driver's license in it, would you return it in-tact or would you keep it and say "well, if the moron would just not have dropped it, he wouldn't have a problem."?

I would return it intact of course. But if that person kept throwing his wallet through my window, that would be another story.

lol, I agree. But if they ask you specifically to not use their WiFi you shouldn't use it.

[Guest]

Point is, instead of arguing about whether it is right or wrong, just secure your shat and there's no problems.

If you found a person's wallet on the street with a thousand dollars and his driver's license in it, would you return it in-tact or would you keep it and say "well, if the moron would just not have dropped it, he wouldn't have a problem."?

People make mistakes or are not educated about all that they're in danger of losing... etc. I'd probably go tell my neighbor of their situation and educate them on how to protect themselves.

Of course, this is only my opinion.

I am not trying to make the fact that they are stealing wireless valid, I'm just saying if there weren't so many dumbasses that don't know how to read a 10-page manual and secure their wireless, there would be no problem. Am I right or am I right?

[Judland]

I am not trying to make the fact that they are stealing wireless valid, I'm just saying if there weren't so many dumbasses that don't know how to read a 10-page manual and secure their wireless, there would be no problem. Am I right or am I right?

You're right... but still, you know someone is paying to have this service, you don't have permission to use this service nor are you compensating that person for the use of a service they're paying for and you're not.

You can justify it all you want, I would still feel wrong in using something without permission just because I can.

Dann, I'm still confused as to why using someone's wifi without their permission, just because you can, is different than purchasing music from a company that's found a loop-hole to allow them to sell it for pennies... outside of the RIAA's rules and regulations.

Thanks to this discussion I now agree that a service like allofMP3 is not an appropriate service to use, even though no definite laws are being broken.

Now if I lived in an apartment complex and was getting wireless signals from an unknown source; then why should a person not use it?

Simple. It's not yours to use. It would be different if the person who's paying for this service posted a note in the lobby say that they're happily providing free broadband for everyone in the building.

I'll ask you this: if free wi-fi for your neighbors is okay in your mind, then why aren't you the one providing this service to everyone?

Again, in my mind, it comes down to the law of not taking advantage of others just because you can.