From fmiller at lightlink.com Sun May 1 00:42:32 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 00:42:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] HomeBank - Free, easy, personal accounting for everyone. In-Reply-To: References: <4DB8E834.7040802@lightlink.com> <4DB9A0DC.2070707@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4DBCE4B8.1010607@lightlink.com> On 04/30/2011 12:29 PM, John R Puhalski wrote: > Thanks Fred, I'm going to give it a try. I've been using Quicken for > years and wanted to get something for linux instead. Tried Gnucash a > little but it could not just import a qdata file, you had to > export/import each account from Quicken as a QIF file, which i see > this does too. I had a lot of accounts so it was a little time > consuming. It also wasnt very KDE friendly and I was using slackware > at the time so I just decided to wait. > > I just installed HomeBank and will give it a try. If anyone has > transferred successfully from Quicken any tips or advice would be > appreciated. > > thanks again Hope it works well for you! Fred -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 1 22:34:30 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 01 May 2011 22:34:30 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Psalms 41 - 44 Message-ID: <4DBE1836.8080404@bibleseven.com> Monday Psalms 41 - 44 Psalm 41 41:1 For the music director; a psalm of David. How blessed is the one who treats the poor properly! When trouble comes, the Lord delivers him. 41:2 May the Lord protect him and save his life! May he be blessed in the land! Do not turn him over to his enemies! 41:3 The Lord supports him on his sickbed; you completely heal him from his illness. 41:4 As for me, I said: "O Lord, have mercy on me! Heal me, for I have sinned against you! 41:5 My enemies ask this cruel question about me, 'When will he finally die and be forgotten?' 41:6 When someone comes to visit, he pretends to be friendly; he thinks of ways to defame me, and when he leaves he slanders me. 41:7 All who hate me whisper insults about me to one another; they plan ways to harm me. 41:8 They say, 'An awful disease overwhelms him, and now that he is bed-ridden he will never recover.' 41:9 Even my close friend whom I trusted, he who shared meals with me, has turned against me. 41:10 As for you, O Lord, have mercy on me and raise me up, so I can pay them back!" 41:11 By this I know that you are pleased with me, for my enemy does not triumph over me. 41:12 As for me, you uphold me because of my integrity; you allow me permanent access to your presence. 41:13 The Lord God of Israel deserves praise in the future and forevermore! We agree! We agree! Book 2 (Psalms 42-72) Psalm 42 42:1 For the music director; a well-written song by the Korahites. As a deer longs for streams of water, so I long for you, O God! 42:2 I thirst for God, for the living God. I say, "When will I be able to go and appear in God's presence?" 42:3 I cannot eat, I weep day and night; all day long they say to me, "Where is your God?" 42:4 I will remember and weep! For I was once walking along with the great throng to the temple of God, shouting and giving thanks along with the crowd as we celebrated the holy festival. 42:5 Why are you depressed, O my soul? Why are you upset? Wait for God! For I will again give thanks to my God for his saving intervention. 42:6 I am depressed, so I will pray to you while I am trapped here in the region of the upper Jordan, from Hermon, from Mount Mizar. 42:7 One deep stream calls out to another at the sound of your waterfalls; all your billows and waves overwhelm me. 42:8 By day the Lord decrees his loyal love, and by night he gives me a song, a prayer to the living God. 42:9 I will pray to God, my high ridge: "Why do you ignore me? Why must I walk around mourning because my enemies oppress me?" 42:10 My enemies' taunts cut into me to the bone, as they say to me all day long, "Where is your God?" 42:11 Why are you depressed, O my soul? Why are you upset? Wait for God! For I will again give thanks to my God for his saving intervention. Psalm 43 43:1 Vindicate me, O God! Fight for me against an ungodly nation! Deliver me from deceitful and evil men! 43:2 For you are the God who shelters me. Why do you reject me? Why must I walk around mourning because my enemies oppress me? 43:3 Reveal your light and your faithfulness! They will lead me, they will escort me back to your holy hill, and to the place where you live. 43:4 Then I will go to the altar of God, to the God who gives me ecstatic joy, so that I express my thanks to you, O God, my God, with a harp. 43:5 Why are you depressed, O my soul? Why are you upset? Wait for God! For I will again give thanks to my God for his saving intervention. Psalm 44 44:1 For the music director; by the Korahites, a well-written song. O God, we have clearly heard; our ancestors have told us what you did in their days, in ancient times. 44:2 You, by your power, defeated nations and settled our fathers on their land; you crushed the people living there and enabled our ancestors to occupy it. 44:3 For they did not conquer the land by their swords, and they did not prevail by their strength, but rather by your power, strength and good favor, for you were partial to them. 44:4 You are my king, O God! Decree Jacob's deliverance! 44:5 By your power we will drive back our enemies; by your strength we will trample down our foes! 44:6 For I do not trust in my bow, and I do not prevail by my sword. 44:7 For you deliver us from our enemies; you humiliate those who hate us. 44:8 In God I boast all day long, and we will continually give thanks to your name. (Selah) 44:9 But you rejected and embarrassed us! You did not go into battle with our armies. 44:10 You made us retreat from the enemy. Those who hate us take whatever they want from us. 44:11 You handed us over like sheep to be eaten; you scattered us among the nations. 44:12 You sold your people for a pittance; you did not ask a high price for them. 44:13 You made us an object of disdain to our neighbors; those who live on our borders taunt and insult us. 44:14 You made us an object of ridicule among the nations; foreigners treat us with contempt. 44:15 All day long I feel humiliated and am overwhelmed with shame, 44:16 before the vindictive enemy who ridicules and insults me. 44:17 All this has happened to us, even though we have not rejected you or violated your covenant with us. 44:18 We have not been unfaithful, nor have we disobeyed your commands. 44:19 Yet you have battered us, leaving us a heap of ruins overrun by wild dogs; you have covered us with darkness. 44:20 If we had rejected our God, and spread out our hands in prayer to another god, 44:21 would not God discover it, for he knows one's thoughts? 44:22 Yet because of you we are killed all day long; we are treated like sheep at the slaughtering block. 44:23 Rouse yourself! Why do you sleep, O Lord? Wake up! Do not reject us forever! 44:24 Why do you look the other way, and ignore the way we are oppressed and mistreated? 44:25 For we lie in the dirt, with our bellies pressed to the ground. 44:26 Rise up and help us! Rescue us because of your loyal love! Prayer Lord, Job and David both foolishly questioned Your awareness and timing, suggesting that You "slumbered" and You abandoned them without cause. May I learn from their example to never doubt You, to be patient -- never as patient as You have been with me -- and to emulate Job and David in their overall lives of faithful praise and obedience. Commentary David's forty-first Psalm began with a wisdom verse about God's healing, protection, and provision for one who cares for the poor. Then it returned to the theme of rescue as he described all who had turned against him. It concluded with a statement of assurance that the Lord God would heal and rescue him because, despite his sin, he had remained steadfastly loyal to the Lord. David's forty-second Psalm was David's cry to the Lord from his memories of intimacy with the Lord God and of great public celebrations of the Lord (such as dancing as they brought the ark of God into the city). He pleaded with the Lord for rescue him and he confidently looked forward to singing His praises when He did. David's forty-third Psalm was David's self-talk as he questioned-aloud why the Lord God had not yet rescued him and yet he continued to be certain that the rescue would come. David's forty-fourth Psalm began with a reference to the Lord God's protection and provision for ancient Israel, then returned again to an anxious plea for rescue. David complained that the people had not sinned against the Lord God but that He had abandoned them, without cause, to their enemies. Interaction Consider David, more than most, had a life-long intimacy in his relationship with the Lord God -- so he struggled greatly during those times that the relationship struggled. Discuss David was obviously a highly-emotional man, could it just have been his tendency to swing from high to low which caused him to swerve into a Job-like criticism of the Lord God? Reflect Despite occasional lapses David generally poured-out faithful praise to the Lord. Share When have you struggled so badly that you wondered where was the Lord God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to remind you of a time when your intimacy with the Lord God was at its height. Action: Today I will praise the Lord for His love, for His desire to be in relationship with me, and for His patience when I drift away. I will share the story of the best time(s) with the Lord with a fellow believer, as an encouragement, and together we will praise the Lord. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Psalms 45 - 50 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 2 22:40:47 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 02 May 2011 22:40:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Psalms 45 - 50 Message-ID: <4DBF6B2F.9070900@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Psalms 45 - 50 Psalm 45 45:1 For the music director; according to the tune of "Lilies;" by the Korahites, a well-written poem, a love song. My heart is stirred by a beautiful song. I say, "I have composed this special song for the king; my tongue is as skilled as the stylus of an experienced scribe." 45:2 You are the most handsome of all men! You speak in an impressive and fitting manner! For this reason God grants you continual blessings. 45:3 Strap your sword to your thigh, O warrior! Appear in your majestic splendor! 45:4 Appear in your majesty and be victorious! Ride forth for the sake of what is right, on behalf of justice! Then your right hand will accomplish mighty acts! 45:5 Your arrows are sharp and penetrate the hearts of the king's enemies. Nations fall at your feet. 45:6 Your throne, O God, is permanent. The scepter of your kingdom is a scepter of justice. 45:7 You love justice and hate evil. For this reason God, your God has anointed you with the oil of joy, elevating you above your companions. 45:8 All your garments are perfumed with myrrh, aloes, and cassia. From the luxurious palaces comes the music of stringed instruments that makes you happy. 45:9 Princesses are among your honored guests, your bride stands at your right hand, wearing jewelry made with gold from Ophir. 45:10 Listen, O princess! Observe and pay attention! Forget your homeland and your family! 45:11 Then the king will be attracted by your beauty. After all, he is your master! Submit to him! 45:12 Rich people from Tyre will seek your favor by bringing a gift. 45:13 The princess looks absolutely magnificent, decked out in pearls and clothed in a brocade trimmed with gold. 45:14 In embroidered robes she is escorted to the king. Her attendants, the maidens of honor who follow her, are led before you. 45:15 They are bubbling with joy as they walk in procession and enter the royal palace. 45:16 Your sons will carry on the dynasty of your ancestors; you will make them princes throughout the land. 45:17 I will proclaim your greatness through the coming years, then the nations will praise you forever. Psalm 46 46:1 For the music director; by the Korahites; according to the /alamoth/ style; a song. God is our strong refuge; he is truly our helper in times of trouble. 46:2 For this reason we do not fear when the earth shakes, and the mountains tumble into the depths of the sea, 46:3 when its waves crash and foam, and the mountains shake before the surging sea. (Selah) 46:4 The river's channels bring joy to the city of God, the special, holy dwelling place of the sovereign One. 46:5 God lives within it, it cannot be moved. God rescues it at the break of dawn. 46:6 Nations are in uproar, kingdoms are overthrown. God gives a shout, the earth dissolves. 46:7 The Lord who commands armies is on our side! The God of Jacob is our protector! (Selah) 46:8 Come! Witness the exploits of the Lord, who brings devastation to the earth! 46:9 He brings an end to wars throughout the earth; he shatters the bow and breaks the spear; he burns the shields with fire. 46:10 He says, "Stop your striving and recognize that I am God! I will be exalted over the nations! I will be exalted over the earth!" 46:11 The Lord who commands armies is on our side! The God of Jacob is our protector! (Selah) Psalm 47 47:1 For the music director; by the Korahites; a psalm. All you nations, clap your hands! Shout out to God in celebration! 47:2 For the sovereign Lord is awe-inspiring; he is the great king who rules the whole earth! 47:3 He subdued nations beneath us and countries under our feet. 47:4 He picked out for us a special land to be a source of pride for Jacob, whom he loves. (Selah) 47:5 God has ascended his throne amid loud shouts; the Lord has ascended his throne amid the blaring of ram's horns. 47:6 Sing to God! Sing! Sing to our king! Sing! 47:7 For God is king of the whole earth! Sing a well-written song! 47:8 God reigns over the nations! God sits on his holy throne! 47:9 The nobles of the nations assemble, along with the people of the God of Abraham, for God has authority over the rulers of the earth. He is highly exalted! Psalm 48 48:1 A song, a psalm by the Korahites. The Lord is great and certainly worthy of praise in the city of our God, his holy hill. 48:2 It is lofty and pleasing to look at, a source of joy to the whole earth. Mount Zion resembles the peaks of Zaphon; it is the city of the great king. 48:3 God is in its fortresses; he reveals himself as its defender. 48:4 For look, the kings assemble; they advance together. 48:5 As soon as they see, they are shocked; they are terrified, they quickly retreat. 48:6 Look at them shake uncontrollably, like a woman writhing in childbirth. 48:7 With an east wind you shatter the large ships. 48:8 We heard about God's mighty deeds, now we have seen them, in the city of the Lord, the invincible Warrior, in the city of our God. God makes it permanently secure. (Selah) 48:9 We reflect on your loyal love, O God, within your temple. 48:10 The praise you receive as far away as the ends of the earth is worthy of your reputation, O God. You execute justice! 48:11 Mount Zion rejoices; the towns of Judah are happy, because of your acts of judgment. 48:12 Walk around Zion! Encircle it! Count its towers! 48:13 Consider its defenses! Walk through its fortresses, so you can tell the next generation about it! 48:14 For God, our God, is our defender forever! He guides us! Psalm 49 49:1 For the music director, a psalm by the Korahites. Listen to this, all you nations! Pay attention, all you inhabitants of the world! 49:2 Pay attention, all you people, both rich and poor! 49:3 I will declare a wise saying; I will share my profound thoughts. 49:4 I will learn a song that imparts wisdom; I will then sing my insightful song to the accompaniment of a harp. 49:5 Why should I be afraid in times of trouble, when the sinful deeds of deceptive men threaten to overwhelm me? 49:6 They trust in their wealth and boast in their great riches. 49:7 Certainly a man cannot rescue his brother; he cannot pay God an adequate ransom price 49:8 (the ransom price for a human life is too high, and people go to their final destiny), 49:9 so that he might continue to live forever and not experience death. 49:10 Surely one sees that even wise people die; fools and spiritually insensitive people all pass away and leave their wealth to others. 49:11 Their grave becomes their permanent residence, their eternal dwelling place. They name their lands after themselves, 49:12 but, despite their wealth, people do not last, they are like animals that perish. 49:13 This is the destiny of fools, and of those who approve of their philosophy. (Selah) 49:14 They will travel to Sheol like sheep, with death as their shepherd. The godly will rule over them when the day of vindication dawns; Sheol will consume their bodies and they will no longer live in impressive houses. 49:15 But God will rescue my life from the power of Sheol; certainly he will pull me to safety. (Selah) 49:16 Do not be afraid when a man becomes rich and his wealth multiplies! 49:17 For he will take nothing with him when he dies; his wealth will not follow him down into the grave. 49:18 He pronounces this blessing on himself while he is alive: "May men praise you, for you have done well!" 49:19 But he will join his ancestors; they will never again see the light of day. 49:20 Wealthy people do not understand; they are like animals that perish. Psalm 50 50:1 A psalm by Asaph. El, God, the Lord speaks, and summons the earth to come from the east and west. 50:2 From Zion, the most beautiful of all places, God comes in splendor. 50:3 Our God approaches and is not silent; consuming fire goes ahead of him and all around him a storm rages. 50:4 He summons the heavens above, as well as the earth, so that he might judge his people. 50:5 He says: "Assemble my covenant people before me, those who ratified a covenant with me by sacrifice!" 50:6 The heavens declare his fairness, for God is judge. (Selah) 50:7 He says: "Listen my people! I am speaking! Listen Israel! I am accusing you! I am God, your God! 50:8 I am not condemning you because of your sacrifices, or because of your burnt sacrifices that you continually offer me. 50:9 I do not need to take a bull from your household or goats from your sheepfolds. 50:10 For every wild animal in the forest belongs to me, as well as the cattle that graze on a thousand hills. 50:11 I keep track of every bird in the hills, and the insects of the field are mine. 50:12 Even if I were hungry, I would not tell you, for the world and all it contains belong to me. 50:13 Do I eat the flesh of bulls? Do I drink the blood of goats? 50:14 Present to God a thank-offering! Repay your vows to the sovereign One! 50:15 Pray to me when you are in trouble! I will deliver you, and you will honor me!" 50:16 God says this to the evildoer: "How can you declare my commands, and talk about my covenant? 50:17 For you hate instruction and reject my words. 50:18 When you see a thief, you join him; you associate with men who are unfaithful to their wives. 50:19 You do damage with words, and use your tongue to deceive. 50:20 You plot against your brother; you slander your own brother. 50:21 When you did these things, I was silent, so you thought I was exactly like you. But now I will condemn you and state my case against you! 50:22 Carefully consider this, you who reject God! Otherwise I will rip you to shreds and no one will be able to rescue you. 50:23 Whoever presents a thank-offering honors me. To whoever obeys my commands, I will reveal my power to deliver." Prayer Lord, throughout all time You are the sovereign One, all-knowing and all-powerful. May I obey You and praise You so that my life will be in right standing before You and You may use me in Your great plan. Commentary David's forty-fifth Psalm celebrate the marriage of the king to a foreign woman, likely from Tyre, and likely for the purpose of an alliance. The young wife is encouraged not to be homesick as such an emotional stress might make her less-attractive. The king's appearance in his battle regalia -- the model designed for "State" affairs -- was complimented. The faithfulness of the king would bring blessing from the Lord God in battle and all things. David's forty-sixth Psalm is a wisdom-song where David reviewed the protection and provision of the Lord God. David's forty-seventh Psalm was a praise song to the Lord God. David's forty-eighth Psalm recited the power and justice and praiseworthy glory of the Lord God. David's forty-ninth Psalm was a caution to not fear those with money and power over the Lord God Who will always be victorious. David's fiftieth Psalm is a wisdom-song warning that when the Lord God comes He comes in judgment. It was a warning to those who claim to speak for God but whose lives are filled with selfish disobedience. It was both a remembrance of the Lord challenging Israel at the mountain for their rebellion and a prophesy of the final judgment of God. Interaction Consider David weaves the themes of the Lord God's character and His action throughout his Psalms. Discuss Why would David make such a big thing of the appearance of the king in his 'show uniform' and the emotional well-being of one of his 'treaty-wives'? Reflect David's warning to rich people who were arrogant and selfish, and his warning to others not to fear or idolize them, is still good counsel today. Share When have you discovered yourself being overly-impressed by the outward appearance of a leader rather than focused on the Lord God and looking for ways that the leader honored Him rather than expecting honor for himself? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where you may give deference, out of awe or fear of a mere human -- due to their celebrity, power, and/or wealth -- and that is displacing the Lord God in first-place. Action: Today I will confess and repent of my functional-idolatry, however subtle, of a created being. I will accept the Lord's forgiveness and partner with Him to increase my focus on Him. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Psalms 51 - 59 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 3 23:03:26 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 03 May 2011 23:03:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday- Psalms 51 - 59 Message-ID: <4DC0C1FE.2080101@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Psalms 51 - 59 Psalm 51 51:1 For the music director; a psalm of David, written when Nathan the prophet confronted him after David's affair with Bathsheba. Have mercy on me, O God, because of your loyal love! Because of your great compassion, wipe away my rebellious acts! 51:2 Wash away my wrongdoing! Cleanse me of my sin! 51:3 For I am aware of my rebellious acts; I am forever conscious of my sin. 51:4 Against you -- you above all -- I have sinned; I have done what is evil in your sight. So you are just when you confront me; you are right when you condemn me. 51:5 Look, I was guilty of sin from birth, a sinner the moment my mother conceived me. 51:6 Look, you desire integrity in the inner man; you want me to possess wisdom. 51:7 Sprinkle me with water and I will be pure; wash me and I will be whiter than snow. 51:8 Grant me the ultimate joy of being forgiven! May the bones you crushed rejoice! 51:9 Hide your face from my sins! Wipe away all my guilt! 51:10 Create for me a pure heart, O God! Renew a resolute spirit within me! 51:11 Do not reject me! Do not take your Holy Spirit away from me! 51:12 Let me again experience the joy of your deliverance! Sustain me by giving me the desire to obey! 51:13 Then I will teach rebels your merciful ways, and sinners will turn to you. 51:14 Rescue me from the guilt of murder, O God, the God who delivers me! Then my tongue will shout for joy because of your deliverance. 51:15 O Lord, give me the words! Then my mouth will praise you. 51:16 Certainly you do not want a sacrifice, or else I would offer it; you do not desire a burnt sacrifice. 51:17 The sacrifices God desires are a humble spirit -- O God, a humble and repentant heart you will not reject. 51:18 Because you favor Zion, do what is good for her! Fortify the walls of Jerusalem! 51:19 Then you will accept the proper sacrifices, burnt sacrifices and whole offerings; then bulls will be sacrificed on your altar. Psalm 52 52:1 For the music director; a well-written song by David. It was written when Doeg the Edomite went and informed Saul: "David has arrived at the home of Ahimelech." Why do you boast about your evil plans, O powerful man? God's loyal love protects me all day long! 52:2 Your tongue carries out your destructive plans; it is as effective as a sharp razor, O deceiver. 52:3 You love evil more than good, lies more than speaking the truth. (Selah) 52:4 You love to use all the words that destroy, and the tongue that deceives. 52:5 Yet God will make you a permanent heap of ruins. He will scoop you up and remove you from your home; he will uproot you from the land of the living. (Selah) 52:6 When the godly see this, they will be filled with awe, and will mock the evildoer, saying: 52:7 "Look, here is the man who would not make God his protector! He trusted in his great wealth and was confident about his plans to destroy others." 52:8 But I am like a flourishing olive tree in the house of God; I continually trust in God's loyal love. 52:9 I will continually thank you when you execute judgment; I will rely on you, for your loyal followers know you are good. Psalm 53 53:1 For the music director; according to the /machalath/ style; a well-written song by David. Fools say to themselves, "There is no God." They sin and commit evil deeds; none of them does what is right. 53:2 God looks down from heaven at the human race, to see if there is anyone who is wise and seeks God. 53:3 Everyone rejects God; they are all morally corrupt. None of them does what is right, not even one! 53:4 All those who behave wickedly do not understand -- those who devour my people as if they were eating bread, and do not call out to God. 53:5 They are absolutely terrified, even by things that do not normally cause fear. For God annihilates those who attack you. You are able to humiliate them because God has rejected them. 53:6 I wish the deliverance of Israel would come from Zion! When God restores the well-being of his people, may Jacob rejoice, may Israel be happy! Psalm 54 54:1 For the music director, to be accompanied by stringed instruments; a well-written song by David. It was written when the Ziphites came and informed Saul: "David is hiding with us." O God, deliver me by your name! Vindicate me by your power! 54:2 O God, listen to my prayer! Pay attention to what I say! 54:3 For foreigners attack me; ruthless men, who do not respect God, seek my life. (Selah) 54:4 Look, God is my deliverer! The Lord is among those who support me. 54:5 May those who wait to ambush me be repaid for their evil! As a demonstration of your faithfulness, destroy them! 54:6 With a freewill offering I will sacrifice to you! I will give thanks to your name, O Lord, for it is good! 54:7 Surely he rescues me from all trouble, and I triumph over my enemies. Psalm 55 55:1 For the music director, to be accompanied by stringed instruments; a well-written song by David. Listen, O God, to my prayer! Do not ignore my appeal for mercy! 55:2 Pay attention to me and answer me! I am so upset and distressed, I am beside myself, 55:3 because of what the enemy says, and because of how the wicked pressure me, for they hurl trouble down upon me and angrily attack me. 55:4 My heart beats violently within me; the horrors of death overcome me. 55:5 Fear and panic overpower me; terror overwhelms me. 55:6 I say, "I wish I had wings like a dove! I would fly away and settle in a safe place! 55:7 Look, I will escape to a distant place; I will stay in the wilderness. (Selah) 55:8 I will hurry off to a place that is safe from the strong wind and the gale." 55:9 Confuse them, O Lord! Frustrate their plans! For I see violence and conflict in the city. 55:10 Day and night they walk around on its walls, while wickedness and destruction are within it. 55:11 Disaster is within it; violence and deceit do not depart from its public square. 55:12 Indeed, it is not an enemy who insults me, or else I could bear it; it is not one who hates me who arrogantly taunts me, or else I could hide from him. 55:13 But it is you, a man like me, my close friend in whom I confided. 55:14 We would share personal thoughts with each other; in God's temple we would walk together among the crowd. 55:15 May death destroy them! May they go down alive into Sheol! For evil is in their dwelling place and in their midst. 55:16 As for me, I will call out to God, and the Lord will deliver me. 55:17 During the evening, morning, and noontime I will lament and moan, and he will hear me. 55:18 He will rescue me and protect me from those who attack me, even though they greatly outnumber me. 55:19 God, the one who has reigned as king from long ago, will hear and humiliate them. (Selah) They refuse to change, and do not fear God. 55:20 He attacks his friends; he breaks his solemn promises to them. 55:21 His words are as smooth as butter, but he harbors animosity in his heart. His words seem softer than oil, but they are really like sharp swords. 55:22 Throw your burden upon the Lord, and he will sustain you. He will never allow the godly to be upended. 55:23 But you, O God, will bring them down to the deep Pit. Violent and deceitful people will not live even half a normal lifespan. But as for me, I trust in you. Psalm 56 56:1 For the music director; according to the /yonath-elem-rechovim/ style; a prayer of David, written when the Philistines captured him in Gath. Have mercy on me, O God, for men are attacking me! All day long hostile enemies are tormenting me. 56:2 Those who anticipate my defeat attack me all day long. Indeed, many are fighting against me, O Exalted One. 56:3 When I am afraid, I trust in you. 56:4 In God -- I boast in his promise -- in God I trust, I am not afraid. What can mere men do to me? 56:5 All day long they cause me trouble; they make a habit of plotting my demise. 56:6 They stalk and lurk; they watch my every step, as they prepare to take my life. 56:7 Because they are bent on violence, do not let them escape! In your anger bring down the nations, O God! 56:8 You keep track of my misery. Put my tears in your leather container! Are they not recorded in your scroll? 56:9 My enemies will turn back when I cry out to you for help; I know that God is on my side. 56:10 In God -- I boast in his promise -- in the Lord -- I boast in his promise -- 56:11 in God I trust, I am not afraid. What can mere men do to me? 56:12 I am obligated to fulfill the vows I made to you, O God; I will give you the thank-offerings you deserve, 56:13 when you deliver my life from death. You keep my feet from stumbling, so that I might serve God as I enjoy life. Psalm 57 57:1 For the music director; according to the /al-tashcheth/ style; a prayer of David, written when he fled from Saul into the cave. Have mercy on me, O God! Have mercy on me! For in you I have taken shelter. In the shadow of your wings I take shelter until trouble passes. 57:2 I cry out for help to the sovereign God, to the God who vindicates me. 57:3 May he send help from heaven and deliver me from my enemies who hurl insults! (Selah) May God send his loyal love and faithfulness! 57:4 I am surrounded by lions; I lie down among those who want to devour me; men whose teeth are spears and arrows, whose tongues are a sharp sword. 57:5 Rise up above the sky, O God! May your splendor cover the whole earth! 57:6 They have prepared a net to trap me; I am discouraged. They have dug a pit for me. They will fall into it! (Selah) 57:7 I am determined, O God! I am determined! I will sing and praise you! 57:8 Awake, my soul! Awake, O stringed instrument and harp! I will wake up at dawn! 57:9 I will give you thanks before the nations, O Master! I will sing praises to you before foreigners! 57:10 For your loyal love extends beyond the sky, and your faithfulness reaches the clouds. 57:11 Rise up above the sky, O God! May your splendor cover the whole earth! Psalm 58 58:1 For the music director; according to the /al-tashcheth/ style; a prayer of David. Do you rulers really pronounce just decisions? Do you judge people fairly? 58:2 No! You plan how to do what is unjust; you deal out violence in the earth. 58:3 The wicked turn aside from birth; liars go astray as soon as they are born. 58:4 Their venom is like that of a snake, like a deaf serpent that does not hear, 58:5 that does not respond to the magicians, or to a skilled snake-charmer. 58:6 O God, break the teeth in their mouths! Smash the jawbones of the lions, O Lord! 58:7 Let them disappear like water that flows away! Let them wither like grass! 58:8 Let them be like a snail that melts away as it moves along! Let them be like stillborn babies that never see the sun! 58:9 Before the kindling is even placed under your pots, he will sweep it away along with both the raw and cooked meat. 58:10 The godly will rejoice when they see vengeance carried out; they will bathe their feet in the blood of the wicked. 58:11 Then observers will say, "Yes indeed, the godly are rewarded! Yes indeed, there is a God who judges in the earth!" Psalm 59 59:1 For the music director; according to the /al-tashcheth/ style; a prayer of David, written when Saul sent men to surround his house and murder him. Deliver me from my enemies, my God! Protect me from those who attack me! 59:2 Deliver me from evildoers! Rescue me from violent men! 59:3 For look, they wait to ambush me; powerful men stalk me, but not because I have rebelled or sinned, O Lord. 59:4 Though I have done nothing wrong, they are anxious to attack. Spring into action and help me! Take notice of me! 59:5 You, O Lord God, the invincible warrior, the God of Israel, rouse yourself and punish all the nations! Have no mercy on any treacherous evildoers! (Selah) 59:6 They return in the evening; they growl like a dog and prowl around outside the city. 59:7 Look, they hurl insults at me and openly threaten to kill me, for they say, "Who hears?" 59:8 But you, O Lord, laugh in disgust at them; you taunt all the nations. 59:9 You are my source of strength! I will wait for you! For God is my refuge. 59:10 The God who loves me will help me; God will enable me to triumph over my enemies. 59:11 Do not strike them dead suddenly, because then my people might forget the lesson. Use your power to make them homeless vagabonds and then bring them down, O Lord who shields us! 59:12 They speak sinful words. So let them be trapped by their own pride and by the curses and lies they speak! 59:13 Angrily wipe them out! Wipe them out so they vanish! Let them know that God rules in Jacob and to the ends of the earth! (Selah) 59:14 They return in the evening; they growl like a dog and prowl around outside the city. 59:15 They wander around looking for something to eat; they refuse to sleep until they are full. 59:16 As for me, I will sing about your strength; I will praise your loyal love in the morning. For you are my refuge and my place of shelter when I face trouble. 59:17 You are my source of strength! I will sing praises to you! For God is my refuge, the God who loves me. Prayer Lord, one is indeed a fool who declares in his heart that there is no God, and then testifies their foolishness to the world by indulging in unrepentant sin. May I be careful that a pattern of sin in my life not be a testimony to a foolish functional-atheism as to Your concern about any specific sin. Commentary David's fifty-first Psalm was his repentant reaction after the prophet Nathan confronted him in the matter of Bathsheba. His Psalm contained a number of doctrinal/theological principles: Guilty of sin from birth (inherited sin, due to the Fall of all Creation, from Adam and Eve). Sin against Bathsheba, Uriah, and Israel really against the Lord God. External sacrifice inadequate. (God wants a contrite and repentant heart.) The Lord cleanses and then keeps one from future sin -- if we let Him. David's fifty-second Psalm was when he was betrayed by Doeg to king Saul; he wrote of the Lord God's judgment upon Doeg, despite his sense of safety from consequences because of his wealth and position. David's fifty-third Psalm was a wisdom-song; he declared that a fool says there is no God - and then sins unrepentantly, no one does what is right, and that the Lord God allows such people to be humbled by others. David's fifty-forth Psalm was when he was betrayed by the Ziphites to king Saul; he wrote of his assurance that the Lord God would deliver him. David's fifty-fifth Psalm was his lament that one whom he had trusted and in whom he had confided had turned against him, and his cry one of desperation for a quick rescue, yet David remained confident in the Lord God's deliverance. David's fifty-sixth Psalm was a cry for the Lord God's rescue but was also a declaration that when he called for the Lord to intervene his enemies would be fearful as they knew that the Lord has saved him before. David's fifty-seventh Psalm was his cry for help, followed by praise for the Lord God, as he hid in a cave with Saul and his forces nearby. Notable phrases were that he took shelter in the Lord, a parallel to his shelter in the cave, and that the Lord might cover the whole earth with His splendor. David's fifty-eighth Psalm was an 'imprecatory prayer' wherein which he pleaded with the Lord God to bring profound harm to his enemies. David's fifty-ninth Psalm continued his imprecatory prayer and added the phrase "God is my refuge". Interaction Consider David's doctrine/theology from Psalm 51 remains true for NT Christians: Guilty of sin from birth (inherited sin, due to the Fall of all Creation, from Adam and Eve). Sin against Bathsheba, Uriah, and Israel really against the Lord God. External sacrifice inadequate. (God wants a contrite and repentant heart.) The Lord cleanses and then keeps one from future sin -- if we let Him. Discuss How could David be so loquacious in confidence and praise for the Lord God and still plead sometimes as if he was not certain the Lord cared or even noticed his plight? Reflect David appeared to draw again upon his shepherd-days for the concepts of "refuge" and "shelter". Share When have you be so troubled that you wondered if the Lord cared or even noticed your plight? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you His truth about the doctrine/theology of David: Guilty of sin from birth (inherited sin, due to the Fall of all Creation, from Adam and Eve). Sin against Bathsheba, Uriah, and Israel really against the Lord God. External sacrifice inadequate. (God wants a contrite and repentant heart.) The Lord cleanses and then keeps one from future sin -- if we let Him. Action: Today I will praise the Lord God for his clarity as to my standing before Him, and my dependence upon Him, and then ask Him to cleanse me and keep me clean. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Psalms 60 - 64 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 4 11:54:04 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 11:54:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] BIG Bible Town Message-ID: <4DC1769C.3070400@bibleseven.com> Anyone get this one working under WINE? http://bigbibletown.com/minSpecs.htm -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 4 21:18:56 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 04 May 2011 21:18:56 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Psalms 60 - 64 Message-ID: <4DC1FB00.2060303@bibleseven.com> Thursday Psalms 60 - 64 Psalm 60 60:1 For the music director; according to the /shushan-eduth/ style; a prayer of David written to instruct others. It was written when he fought against Aram Naharaim and Aram-Zobah. That was when Joab turned back and struck down 12,000 Edomites in the Valley of Salt. O God, you have rejected us. You suddenly turned on us in your anger. Please restore us! 60:2 You made the earth quake; you split it open. Repair its breaches, for it is ready to fall. 60:3 You have made your people experience hard times; you have made us drink intoxicating wine. 60:4 You have given your loyal followers a rallying flag, so that they might seek safety from the bow. (Selah) 60:5 Deliver by your power and answer me, so that the ones you love may be safe. 60:6 God has spoken in his sanctuary: "I will triumph! I will parcel out Shechem; the Valley of Succoth I will measure off. 60:7 Gilead belongs to me, as does Manasseh! Ephraim is my helmet, Judah my royal scepter. 60:8 Moab is my washbasin. I will make Edom serve me. I will shout in triumph over Philistia." 60:9 Who will lead me into the fortified city? Who will bring me to Edom? 60:10 Have you not rejected us, O God? O God, you do not go into battle with our armies. 60:11 Give us help against the enemy, for any help men might offer is futile. 60:12 By God's power we will conquer; he will trample down our enemies. Psalm 61 61:1 For the music director; to be played on a stringed instrument; written by David. O God, hear my cry for help! Pay attention to my prayer! 61:2 From the most remote place on earth I call out to you in my despair. Lead me up to an inaccessible rocky summit! 61:3 Indeed, you are my shelter, a strong tower that protects me from the enemy. 61:4 I will be a permanent guest in your home; I will find shelter in the protection of your wings. (Selah) 61:5 For you, O God, hear my vows; you grant me the reward that belongs to your loyal followers. 61:6 Give the king long life! Make his lifetime span several generations! 61:7 May he reign forever before God! Decree that your loyal love and faithfulness should protect him. 61:8 Then I will sing praises to your name continually, as I fulfill my vows day after day. Psalm 62 62:1 For the music director, Jeduthun; a psalm of David. For God alone I patiently wait; he is the one who delivers me. 62:2 He alone is my protector and deliverer. He is my refuge; I will not be upended. 62:3 How long will you threaten a man? All of you are murderers, as dangerous as a leaning wall or an unstable fence. 62:4 They spend all their time planning how to bring him down. They love to use deceit; they pronounce blessings with their mouths, but inwardly they utter curses. (Selah) 62:5 Patiently wait for God alone, my soul! For he is the one who gives me confidence. 62:6 He alone is my protector and deliverer. He is my refuge; I will not be upended. 62:7 God delivers me and exalts me; God is my strong protector and my shelter. 62:8 Trust in him at all times, you people! Pour out your hearts before him! God is our shelter! (Selah) 62:9 Men are nothing but a mere breath; human beings are unreliable. When they are weighed in the scales, all of them together are lighter than air. 62:10 Do not trust in what you can gain by oppression! Do not put false confidence in what you can gain by robbery! If wealth increases, do not become attached to it! 62:11 God has declared one principle; two principles I have heard: God is strong, 62:12 and you, O Lord, demonstrate loyal love. For you repay men for what they do. Psalm 63 63:1 A psalm of David, written when he was in the Judean wilderness. O God, you are my God! I long for you! My soul thirsts for you, my flesh yearns for you, in a dry and parched land where there is no water. 63:2 Yes, in the sanctuary I have seen you, and witnessed your power and splendor. 63:3 Because experiencing your loyal love is better than life itself, my lips will praise you. 63:4 For this reason I will praise you while I live; in your name I will lift up my hands. 63:5 As if with choice meat you satisfy my soul. My mouth joyfully praises you, 63:6 whenever I remember you on my bed, and think about you during the nighttime hours. 63:7 For you are my deliverer; under your wings I rejoice. 63:8 My soul pursues you; your right hand upholds me. 63:9 Enemies seek to destroy my life, but they will descend into the depths of the earth. 63:10 Each one will be handed over to the sword; their corpses will be eaten by jackals. 63:11 But the king will rejoice in God; everyone who takes oaths in his name will boast, for the mouths of those who speak lies will be shut up. Psalm 64 64:1 For the music director; a psalm of David. Listen to me, O God, as I offer my lament! Protect my life from the enemy's terrifying attacks. 64:2 Hide me from the plots of evil men, from the crowd of evildoers. 64:3 They sharpen their tongues like a sword; they aim their arrow, a slanderous charge, 64:4 in order to shoot down the innocent in secluded places. They shoot at him suddenly and are unafraid of retaliation. 64:5 They encourage one another to carry out their evil deed. They plan how to hide snares, and boast, "Who will see them?" 64:6 They devise unjust schemes; they disguise a well-conceived plot. Man's inner thoughts cannot be discovered. 64:7 But God will shoot at them; suddenly they will be wounded by an arrow. 64:8 Their slander will bring about their demise. All who see them will shudder, 64:9 and all people will fear. They will proclaim what God has done, and reflect on his deeds. 64:10 The godly will rejoice in the Lord and take shelter in him. All the morally upright will boast. Prayer Lord, as David wrote You are my protector and deliverer and refuge, and You are also the source of both justice and love. May I rest in You, trust in You, follow You, entrust justice to You, and learn about love from You. Commentary David's sixtieth Psalm was his cry to the Lord God to assist his armies -- which was answered when Joab was empowered to turn an annihilate over 100,000 Edomites. David's sixty-first Psalm was a request for the Lord God's protection and a song of praise. David's sixty-second Psalm was a wisdom-song, he wrote "He alone is my protector and deliverer. He is my refuge ...", he warned those who were doing well to not become hostage to their wealth and to not improve their circumstances through the abuse of others, he also observed that the Lord God brought both justice and love. David's sixty-third Psalm was a song of longing for intimacy with the Lord as he was in-flight and away from the "sanctuary" and though he praised the Lord God he missed that quiet and safe place. David's sixty-fourth Psalm was a wisdom-song where he declared the consequence for evil me to be destruction at the hand of the Lord God while the faithful rested in Him. Interaction Consider The powerful thread of praise throughout most of David's Psalms is a model for health and strength in a corrupt and corrupting world. Discuss Why would David be concerned that people acquiring wealth might become hostage to their new-found wealth and perhaps even willing to abuse others to increase and maintain it? Reflect David's discomfort was amplified because he had experienced great comfort for a time, both spiritually and physically. Share When have you gone from comfort to discomfort, either voluntarily (e.g. camping or other unusual environment) or involuntarily (loss of home, moving, etc) and longed for your prior circumstance? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a time and place of greater intimacy with Him. Action: Today I will remember and celebrate my prior moments of exceptional intimacy with the Lord God and then I will assess my circumstances to discover how I might improve my relationship. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Psalms 65 - 68 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 5 23:03:19 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 05 May 2011 23:03:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Psalms 65 - 68 Message-ID: <4DC364F7.3020605@bibleseven.com> Friday Psalms 65 - 68 Psalm 65 65:1 For the music director; a psalm of David, a song. Praise awaits you, O God, in Zion. Vows made to you are fulfilled. 65:2 You hear prayers; all people approach you. 65:3 Our record of sins overwhelms me, but you forgive our acts of rebellion. 65:4 How blessed is the one whom you choose, and allow to live in your palace courts. May we be satisfied with the good things of your house -- your holy palace. 65:5 You answer our prayers by performing awesome acts of deliverance, O God, our savior. All the ends of the earth trust in you, as well as those living across the wide seas. 65:6 You created the mountains by your power, and demonstrated your strength. 65:7 You calm the raging seas and their roaring waves, as well as the commotion made by the nations. 65:8 Even those living in the most remote areas are awestruck by your acts; you cause those living in the east and west to praise you. 65:9 You visit the earth and give it rain; you make it rich and fertile with overflowing streams full of water. You provide grain for them, for you prepare the earth to yield its crops. 65:10 You saturate its furrows, and soak its plowed ground. With rain showers you soften its soil, and make its crops grow. 65:11 You crown the year with your good blessings, and you leave abundance in your wake. 65:12 The pastures in the wilderness glisten with moisture, and the hills are clothed with joy. 65:13 The meadows are clothed with sheep, and the valleys are covered with grain. They shout joyfully, yes, they sing. Psalm 66 66:1 For the music director; a song, a psalm. Shout out praise to God, all the earth! 66:2 Sing praises about the majesty of his reputation! Give him the honor he deserves! 66:3 Say to God: "How awesome are your deeds! Because of your great power your enemies cower in fear before you. 66:4 All the earth worships you and sings praises to you! They sing praises to your name!" (Selah) 66:5 Come and witness God's exploits! His acts on behalf of people are awesome! 66:6 He turned the sea into dry land; they passed through the river on foot. Let us rejoice in him there! 66:7 He rules by his power forever; he watches the nations. Stubborn rebels should not exalt themselves. (Selah) 66:8 Praise our God, you nations! Loudly proclaim his praise! 66:9 He preserves our lives and does not allow our feet to slip. 66:10 For you, O God, tested us; you purified us like refined silver. 66:11 You led us into a trap; you caused us to suffer. 66:12 You allowed men to ride over our heads; we passed through fire and water, but you brought us out into a wide open place. 66:13 I will enter your temple with burnt sacrifices; I will fulfill the vows I made to you, 66:14 which my lips uttered and my mouth spoke when I was in trouble. 66:15 I will offer up to you fattened animals as burnt sacrifices, along with the smell of sacrificial rams. I will offer cattle and goats. (Selah) 66:16 Come! Listen, all you who are loyal to God! I will declare what he has done for me. 66:17 I cried out to him for help and praised him with my tongue. 66:18 If I had harbored sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. 66:19 However, God heard; he listened to my prayer. 66:20 God deserves praise, for he did not reject my prayer or abandon his love for me! Psalm 67 67:1 For the music director; to be accompanied by stringed instruments; a psalm, a song. May God show us his favor and bless us! May he smile on us! (Selah) 67:2 Then those living on earth will know what you are like; all nations will know how you deliver your people. 67:3 Let the nations thank you, O God! Let all the nations thank you! 67:4 Let foreigners rejoice and celebrate! For you execute justice among the nations, and govern the people living on earth. (Selah) 67:5 Let the nations thank you, O God! Let all the nations thank you! 67:6 The earth yields its crops. May God, our God, bless us! 67:7 May God bless us! Then all the ends of the earth will give him the honor he deserves. Psalm 68 68:1 For the music director; by David, a psalm, a song. God springs into action! His enemies scatter; his adversaries run from him. 68:2 As smoke is driven away by the wind, so you drive them away. As wax melts before fire, so the wicked are destroyed before God. 68:3 But the godly are happy; they rejoice before God and are overcome with joy. 68:4 Sing to God! Sing praises to his name! Exalt the one who rides on the clouds! For the Lord is his name! Rejoice before him! 68:5 He is a father to the fatherless and an advocate for widows. God rules from his holy palace. 68:6 God settles those who have been deserted in their own homes; he frees prisoners and grants them prosperity. But sinful rebels live in the desert. 68:7 O God, when you lead your people into battle, when you march through the desert, (Selah) 68:8 the earth shakes, yes, the heavens pour down rain before God, the God of Sinai, before God, the God of Israel. 68:9 O God, you cause abundant showers to fall on your chosen people. When they are tired, you sustain them, 68:10 for you live among them. You sustain the oppressed with your good blessings, O God. 68:11 The Lord speaks; many, many women spread the good news. 68:12 Kings leading armies run away -- they run away! The lovely lady of the house divides up the loot. 68:13 When you lie down among the sheepfolds, the wings of the dove are covered with silver and with glittering gold. 68:14 When the sovereign judge scatters kings, let it snow on Zalmon! 68:15 The mountain of Bashan is a towering mountain; the mountain of Bashan is a mountain with many peaks. 68:16 Why do you look with envy, O mountains with many peaks, at the mountain where God has decided to live? Indeed the Lord will live there permanently! 68:17 God has countless chariots; they number in the thousands. The Lord comes from Sinai in holy splendor. 68:18 You ascend on high, you have taken many captives. You receive tribute from men, including even sinful rebels. Indeed the Lord God lives there! 68:19 The Lord deserves praise! Day after day he carries our burden, the God who delivers us. (Selah) 68:20 Our God is a God who delivers; the Lord, the sovereign Lord, can rescue from death. 68:21 Indeed God strikes the heads of his enemies, the hairy foreheads of those who persist in rebellion. 68:22 The Lord says, "I will retrieve them from Bashan, I will bring them back from the depths of the sea, 68:23 so that your feet may stomp in their blood, and your dogs may eat their portion of the enemies' corpses." 68:24 They see your processions, O God -- the processions of my God, my king, who marches along in holy splendor. 68:25 Singers walk in front; musicians follow playing their stringed instruments, in the midst of young women playing tambourines. 68:26 In your large assemblies praise God, the Lord, in the assemblies of Israel! 68:27 There is little Benjamin, their ruler, and the princes of Judah in their robes, along with the princes of Zebulun and the princes of Naphtali. 68:28 God has decreed that you will be powerful. O God, you who have acted on our behalf, demonstrate your power, 68:29 as you come out of your temple in Jerusalem! Kings bring tribute to you. 68:30 Sound your battle cry against the wild beast of the reeds, and the nations that assemble like a herd of calves led by bulls! They humble themselves and offer gold and silver as tribute. God scatters the nations that like to do battle. 68:31 They come with red cloth from Egypt, Ethiopia voluntarily offers tribute to God. 68:32 O kingdoms of the earth, sing to God! Sing praises to the Lord, (Selah) 68:33 to the one who rides through the sky from ancient times! Look! He thunders loudly. 68:34 Acknowledge God's power, his sovereignty over Israel, and the power he reveals in the skies! 68:35 You are awe-inspiring, O God, as you emerge from your holy temple! It is the God of Israel who gives the people power and strength. God deserves praise! Prayer Lord, You are the Creator-God, the One and only true-God, and yet You care for the least of Your created humankind. May I rest in the joy that I am loved by You. Commentary David's sixty-fifth Psalm was a praise-song to the Lord God which emphasized His power. David's sixty-sixth Psalm was a praise-song to the Lord God which emphasized how He worked in the lives of the people. David's sixty-seventh Psalm was a praise song to the Lord God which emphasized His relationship with the nations and their obligation to respond rightly. David's sixty-eighth Psalm was a praise-song to the Lord God which emphasized His provision and protection. It included some notable phrases: "He is a father to the fatherless and an advocate for widows." "The Lord speaks; many, many women spread the good news." "The lovely lady of the house divides up the loot." "... in the midst of young women playing tambourines." "There is little Benjamin, their ruler" [NET translators speculate this refers to Saul] "... the one who rides through the sky from ancient times!" [A history of miracles for His people.] "Day after day he carries our burden, the God who delivers us." Interaction Consider David chose to emphasize the important role of women in the Lord God's service. In the case of the "... young women playing tambourines." the NET translator's notes explain that David was referring to the tradition that such would be the practice during a victory parade. Discuss Why would David invest so much time in writing songs of praise to the Lord God? Reflect David made an special effort to remind people of the Lord God's caring, even specifically listing "the fatherless" and widows. Share When have you found it an encouragement to read the Psalms which described the loving care of the Lord God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a specific moment in your life where He demonstrated His protection and/or provision for you. Action: Today I will make some time to prayerfully reflect on the loving care of the Lord and to give Him praise. I will share that with a fellow believer as an encouragement to them to do the same and as a way to share my joy. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Psalms 69 - 71 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Fri May 6 22:33:39 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 06 May 2011 22:33:39 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Psalms 69 - 71 Message-ID: <4DC4AF83.3070202@bibleseven.com> Saturday Psalms 69 - 71 Psalm 69 69:1 For the music director; according to the tune of "Lilies;" by David. Deliver me, O God, for the water has reached my neck. 69:2 I sink into the deep mire where there is no solid ground; I am in deep water, and the current overpowers me. 69:3 I am exhausted from shouting for help; my throat is sore; my eyes grow tired of looking for my God. 69:4 Those who hate me without cause are more numerous than the hairs of my head. Those who want to destroy me, my enemies for no reason, outnumber me. They make me repay what I did not steal! 69:5 O God, you are aware of my foolish sins; my guilt is not hidden from you. 69:6 Let none who rely on you be disgraced because of me, O sovereign Lord and king! Let none who seek you be ashamed because of me, O God of Israel! 69:7 For I suffer humiliation for your sake and am thoroughly disgraced. 69:8 My own brothers treat me like a stranger; they act as if I were a foreigner. 69:9 Certainly zeal for your house consumes me; I endure the insults of those who insult you. 69:10 I weep and refrain from eating food, which causes others to insult me. 69:11 I wear sackcloth and they ridicule me. 69:12 Those who sit at the city gate gossip about me; drunkards mock me in their songs. 69:13 O Lord, may you hear my prayer and be favorably disposed to me! O God, because of your great loyal love, answer me with your faithful deliverance! 69:14 Rescue me from the mud! Don't let me sink! Deliver me from those who hate me, from the deep water! 69:15 Don't let the current overpower me! Don't let the deep swallow me up! Don't let the pit devour me! 69:16 Answer me, O Lord, for your loyal love is good! Because of your great compassion, turn toward me! 69:17 Do not ignore your servant, for I am in trouble! Answer me right away! 69:18 Come near me and redeem me! Because of my enemies, rescue me! 69:19 You know how I am insulted, humiliated and disgraced; you can see all my enemies. 69:20 Their insults are painful and make me lose heart; I look for sympathy, but receive none, for comforters, but find none. 69:21 They put bitter poison into my food, and to quench my thirst they give me vinegar to drink. 69:22 May their dining table become a trap before them! May it be a snare for that group of friends! 69:23 May their eyes be blinded! Make them shake violently! 69:24 Pour out your judgment on them! May your raging anger overtake them! 69:25 May their camp become desolate, their tents uninhabited! 69:26 For they harass the one whom you discipline; they spread the news about the suffering of those whom you punish. 69:27 Hold them accountable for all their sins! Do not vindicate them! 69:28 May their names be deleted from the scroll of the living! Do not let their names be listed with the godly! 69:29 I am oppressed and suffering! O God, deliver and protect me! 69:30 I will sing praises to God's name! I will magnify him as I give him thanks! 69:31 That will please the Lord more than an ox or a bull with horns and hooves. 69:32 The oppressed look on -- let them rejoice! You who seek God, may you be encouraged! 69:33 For the Lord listens to the needy; he does not despise his captive people. 69:34 Let the heavens and the earth praise him, along with the seas and everything that swims in them! 69:35 For God will deliver Zion and rebuild the cities of Judah, and his people will again live in them and possess Zion. 69:36 The descendants of his servants will inherit it, and those who are loyal to him will live in it. Psalm 70 70:1 For the music director; by David; written to get God's attention. O God, please be willing to rescue me! O Lord, hurry and help me! 70:2 May those who are trying to take my life be embarrassed and ashamed! May those who want to harm me be turned back and ashamed! 70:3 May those who say, "Aha! Aha!" be driven back and disgraced! 70:4 May all those who seek you be happy and rejoice in you! May those who love to experience your deliverance say continually, "May God be praised!" 70:5 I am oppressed and needy! O God, hurry to me! You are my helper and my deliverer! O Lord, do not delay! Psalm 71 71:1 In you, O Lord, I have taken shelter! Never let me be humiliated! 71:2 Vindicate me by rescuing me! Listen to me! Deliver me! 71:3 Be my protector and refuge, a stronghold where I can be safe! For you are my high ridge and my stronghold. 71:4 My God, rescue me from the power of the wicked, from the hand of the cruel oppressor! 71:5 For you give me confidence, O Lord; O Lord, I have trusted in you since I was young. 71:6 I have leaned on you since birth; you pulled me from my mother's womb. I praise you continually. 71:7 Many are appalled when they see me, but you are my secure shelter. 71:8 I praise you constantly and speak of your splendor all day long. 71:9 Do not reject me in my old age! When my strength fails, do not abandon me! 71:10 For my enemies talk about me; those waiting for a chance to kill me plot my demise. 71:11 They say, "God has abandoned him. Run and seize him, for there is no one who will rescue him!" 71:12 O God, do not remain far away from me! My God, hurry and help me! 71:13 May my accusers be humiliated and defeated! May those who want to harm me be covered with scorn and disgrace! 71:14 As for me, I will wait continually, and will continue to praise you. 71:15 I will tell about your justice, and all day long proclaim your salvation, though I cannot fathom its full extent. 71:16 I will come and tell about the mighty acts of the sovereign Lord. I will proclaim your justice -- yours alone. 71:17 O God, you have taught me since I was young, and I am still declaring your amazing deeds. 71:18 Even when I am old and gray, O God, do not abandon me, until I tell the next generation about your strength, and those coming after me about your power. 71:19 Your justice, O God, extends to the skies above; you have done great things. O God, who can compare to you? 71:20 Though you have allowed me to experience much trouble and distress, revive me once again! Bring me up once again from the depths of the earth! 71:21 Raise me to a position of great honor! Turn and comfort me! 71:22 I will express my thanks to you with a stringed instrument, praising your faithfulness, O my God! I will sing praises to you accompanied by a harp, O Holy One of Israel! 71:23 My lips will shout for joy! Yes, I will sing your praises! I will praise you when you rescue me! 71:24 All day long my tongue will also tell about your justice, for those who want to harm me will be embarrassed and ashamed. Prayer Lord, Your justice is perfectly balanced with Your mercy. May I not be as impatient with You as was David, but learn from the sharing of his many Psalms of anxious petition, and rest assured that nothing can touch me if You choose to protect me -- and whatever my circumstances You will strengthen and teach me -- if I choose to be teachable. Commentary David's sixty-ninth Psalm was his cry for mercy. He confessed that he had sinned and deserved punishment, and he repented and asked for forgiveness. He was upset that his failure and punishment was giving encouragement to the enemies of the Lord God to slander Him. He also worried that his circumstances would discourage the faithful. He asked the Lord God to right things so that His name would be glorified. David's seventieth Psalm was a cry for the Lord God to hurry and rescue him. David's seventy-first Psalm contained both petition and praise. He again asked the Lord God to rescue him (and not "forget" him in his "old age") but he also reflected on a lifetime of relationship with the Lord, declared his intention to continue to give praise, and promised to proclaim the glory and justice and mercy of the Lord if he was restored to health and power. Interaction Consider David was always an emotional and impatient personality -- and it shows in his wild swings of emotion. Discuss Why would David fear for his life if he truly believed that he was the Lord God's anointed and that the Lord was sovereign? Reflect David worried that his errors were having a negative impact on the perceptions of others about the Lord God -- and rightly so. Share When have you struggled and felt impatient with the Lord God to set you free? Did you later, upon reflection, observe that He delayed because He was teaching you? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you something about your walk that the enemy could use to discourage believers and/or those who are considering-Christ, and encourage those who were already predisposed to oppose the Lord. Action: Today I will confess and repent my poor witness for Christ, I will accept the Lord's forgiveness, and I will act intentionally to avoid the repetition of that sin. As appropriate I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement and to be my accountability-partner to assist me in remaining free of presenting that poor witness. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Psalms 72 - 77 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 7 23:08:51 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 23:08:51 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Psalms 72 - 77 Message-ID: <4DC60943.9070206@bibleseven.com> Sunday Psalms 72 - 77 Psalm 72 72:1 For Solomon. O God, grant the king the ability to make just decisions! Grant the king's son the ability to make fair decisions! 72:2 Then he will judge your people fairly, and your oppressed ones equitably. 72:3 The mountains will bring news of peace to the people, and the hills will announce justice. 72:4 He will defend the oppressed among the people; he will deliver the children of the poor and crush the oppressor. 72:5 People will fear you as long as the sun and moon remain in the sky, for generation after generation. 72:6 He will descend like rain on the mown grass, like showers that drench the earth. 72:7 During his days the godly will flourish; peace will prevail as long as the moon remains in the sky. 72:8 May he rule from sea to sea, and from the Euphrates River to the ends of the earth! 72:9 Before him the coastlands will bow down, and his enemies will lick the dust. 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and the coastlands will offer gifts; the kings of Sheba and Seba will bring tribute. 72:11 All kings will bow down to him; all nations will serve him. 72:12 For he will rescue the needy when they cry out for help, and the oppressed who have no defender. 72:13 He will take pity on the poor and needy; the lives of the needy he will save. 72:14 From harm and violence he will defend them; he will value their lives. 72:15 May he live! May they offer him gold from Sheba! May they continually pray for him! May they pronounce blessings on him all day long! 72:16 May there be an abundance of grain in the earth; on the tops of the mountains may it sway! May its fruit trees flourish like the forests of Lebanon! May its crops be as abundant as the grass of the earth! 72:17 May his fame endure! May his dynasty last as long as the sun remains in the sky! May they use his name when they formulate their blessings! May all nations consider him to be favored by God! 72:18 The Lord God, the God of Israel, deserves praise! He alone accomplishes amazing things! 72:19 His glorious name deserves praise forevermore! May his majestic splendor fill the whole earth! We agree! We agree! 72:20 This collection of the prayers of David son of Jesse ends here. Book 3 (Psalms 73-89) Psalm 73 73:1 A psalm by Asaph. Certainly God is good to Israel, and to those whose motives are pure! 73:2 But as for me, my feet almost slipped; my feet almost slid out from under me. 73:3 For I envied those who are proud, as I observed the prosperity of the wicked. 73:4 For they suffer no pain; their bodies are strong and well-fed. 73:5 They are immune to the trouble common to men; they do not suffer as other men do. 73:6 Arrogance is their necklace, and violence their clothing. 73:7 Their prosperity causes them to do wrong; their thoughts are sinful. 73:8 They mock and say evil things; they proudly threaten violence. 73:9 They speak as if they rule in heaven, and lay claim to the earth. 73:10 Therefore they have more than enough food to eat, and even suck up the water of the sea. 73:11 They say, "How does God know what we do? Is the sovereign one aware of what goes on?" 73:12 Take a good look! This is what the wicked are like, those who always have it so easy and get richer and richer. 73:13 I concluded, "Surely in vain I have kept my motives pure and maintained a pure lifestyle. 73:14 I suffer all day long, and am punished every morning." 73:15 If I had publicized these thoughts, I would have betrayed your loyal followers. 73:16 When I tried to make sense of this, it was troubling to me. 73:17 Then I entered the precincts of God's temple, and understood the destiny of the wicked. 73:18 Surely you put them in slippery places; you bring them down to ruin. 73:19 How desolate they become in a mere moment! Terrifying judgments make their demise complete! 73:20 They are like a dream after one wakes up. O Lord, when you awake you will despise them. 73:21 Yes, my spirit was bitter, and my insides felt sharp pain. 73:22 I was ignorant and lacked insight; I was as senseless as an animal before you. 73:23 But I am continually with you; you hold my right hand. 73:24 You guide me by your wise advice, and then you will lead me to a position of honor. 73:25 Whom do I have in heaven but you? I desire no one but you on earth. 73:26 My flesh and my heart may grow weak, but God always protects my heart and gives me stability. 73:27 Yes, look! Those far from you die; you destroy everyone who is unfaithful to you. 73:28 But as for me, God's presence is all I need. I have made the sovereign Lord my shelter, as I declare all the things you have done. Psalm 74 74:1 A well-written song by Asaph. Why, O God, have you permanently rejected us? Why does your anger burn against the sheep of your pasture? 74:2 Remember your people whom you acquired in ancient times, whom you rescued so they could be your very own nation, as well as Mount Zion, where you dwell! 74:3 Hurry and look at the permanent ruins, and all the damage the enemy has done to the temple! 74:4 Your enemies roar in the middle of your sanctuary; they set up their battle flags. 74:5 They invade like lumberjacks swinging their axes in a thick forest. 74:6 And now they are tearing down all its engravings with axes and crowbars. 74:7 They set your sanctuary on fire; they desecrate your dwelling place by knocking it to the ground. 74:8 They say to themselves, "We will oppress all of them." They burn down all the places where people worship God in the land. 74:9 We do not see any signs of God's presence; there are no longer any prophets and we have no one to tell us how long this will last. 74:10 How long, O God, will the adversary hurl insults? Will the enemy blaspheme your name forever? 74:11 Why do you remain inactive? Intervene and destroy him! 74:12 But God has been my king from ancient times, performing acts of deliverance on the earth. 74:13 You destroyed the sea by your strength; you shattered the heads of the sea monster in the water. 74:14 You crushed the heads of Leviathan; you fed him to the people who live along the coast. 74:15 You broke open the spring and the stream; you dried up perpetually flowing rivers. 74:16 You established the cycle of day and night; you put the moon and sun in place. 74:17 You set up all the boundaries of the earth; you created the cycle of summer and winter. 74:18 Remember how the enemy hurls insults, O Lord, and how a foolish nation blasphemes your name! 74:19 Do not hand the life of your dove over to a wild animal! Do not continue to disregard the lives of your oppressed people! 74:20 Remember your covenant promises, for the dark regions of the earth are full of places where violence rules. 74:21 Do not let the afflicted be turned back in shame! Let the oppressed and poor praise your name! 74:22 Rise up, O God! Defend your honor! Remember how fools insult you all day long! 74:23 Do not disregard what your enemies say, or the unceasing shouts of those who defy you. Psalm 75 75:1 For the music director; according to the /al-tashcheth/ style; a psalm of Asaph; a song. We give thanks to you, O God! We give thanks! You reveal your presence; people tell about your amazing deeds. 75:2 God says, "At the appointed times, I judge fairly. 75:3 When the earth and all its inhabitants dissolve in fear, I make its pillars secure." (Selah) 75:4 I say to the proud, "Do not be proud," and to the wicked, "Do not be so confident of victory! 75:5 Do not be so certain you have won! Do not speak with your head held so high! 75:6 For victory does not come from the east or west, or from the wilderness. 75:7 For God is the judge! He brings one down and exalts another. 75:8 For the Lord holds in his hand a cup full of foaming wine mixed with spices, and pours it out. Surely all the wicked of the earth will slurp it up and drink it to its very last drop." 75:9 As for me, I will continually tell what you have done; I will sing praises to the God of Jacob! 75:10 God says, "I will bring down all the power of the wicked; the godly will be victorious." Psalm 76 76:1 For the music director; to be accompanied by stringed instruments; a psalm of Asaph, a song. God has revealed himself in Judah; in Israel his reputation is great. 76:2 He lives in Salem; he dwells in Zion. 76:3 There he shattered the arrows, the shield, the sword, and the rest of the weapons of war. (Selah) 76:4 You shine brightly and reveal your majesty, as you descend from the hills where you killed your prey. 76:5 The bravehearted were plundered; they "fell asleep." All the warriors were helpless. 76:6 At the sound of your battle cry, O God of Jacob, both rider and horse "fell asleep." 76:7 You are awesome! Yes, you! Who can withstand your intense anger? 76:8 From heaven you announced what their punishment would be. The earth was afraid and silent 76:9 when God arose to execute judgment, and to deliver all the oppressed of the earth. (Selah) 76:10 Certainly your angry judgment upon men will bring you praise; you reveal your anger in full measure. 76:11 Make vows to the Lord your God and repay them! Let all those who surround him bring tribute to the awesome one! 76:12 He humbles princes; the kings of the earth regard him as awesome. Psalm 77 77:1 For the music director, Jeduthun; a psalm of Asaph. I will cry out to God and call for help! I will cry out to God and he will pay attention to me. 77:2 In my time of trouble I sought the Lord. I kept my hand raised in prayer throughout the night. I refused to be comforted. 77:3 I said, "I will remember God while I groan; I will think about him while my strength leaves me." (Selah) 77:4 You held my eyelids open; I was troubled and could not speak. 77:5 I thought about the days of old, about ancient times. 77:6 I said, "During the night I will remember the song I once sang; I will think very carefully." I tried to make sense of what was happening. 77:7 I asked, "Will the Lord reject me forever? Will he never again show me his favor? 77:8 Has his loyal love disappeared forever? Has his promise failed forever? 77:9 Has God forgotten to be merciful? Has his anger stifled his compassion?" 77:10 Then I said, "I am sickened by the thought that the sovereign One might become inactive. 77:11 I will remember the works of the Lord. Yes, I will remember the amazing things you did long ago! 77:12 I will think about all you have done; I will reflect upon your deeds!" 77:13 O God, your deeds are extraordinary! What god can compare to our great God? 77:14 You are the God who does amazing things; you have revealed your strength among the nations. 77:15 You delivered your people by your strength -- the children of Jacob and Joseph. (Selah) 77:16 The waters saw you, O God, the waters saw you and trembled.Yes, the depths of the sea shook with fear. 77:17 The clouds poured down rain; the skies thundered. Yes, your arrows flashed about. 77:18 Your thunderous voice was heard in the wind; the lightning bolts lit up the world; the earth trembled and shook. 77:19 You walked through the sea; you passed through the surging waters, but left no footprints. 77:20 You led your people like a flock of sheep, by the hand of Moses and Aaron. Prayer Lord, most of Your blessings are conditioned upon our obedience, You have said so. May I never doubt that Your blessings are balanced with discipline should I choose to behave in rebellious manner. Commentary David's seventy-second Psalm was the wishful and prophetic prayer of David for his heir and son Solomon. Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-three in the sequence, was his lament that he had allowed jealousy of the wealthy to cloud his perception of the Lord God and of his own life. Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-four, was a plea for deliverance after the Lord God has allowed the enemies of Israel to be His tool of discipline for their rebellion. Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-five, was a praise and wisdom-song. Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-six, was a praise song that recited some of the deeds of the Lord God on behalf of Israel. Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-seven, was a prayer of petition that remembered the Lord God's past favor for Israel and questioned if He would ever rescue and restore them. Interaction Consider There is general scholarly agreement that Asaph was one of three members of the ancient praise and worship leadership associated with David. Discuss Why would Asaph plead with the Lord God as if Israel had not been warned many times that His patience was short and He was not inclined to rescue and restore them? Reflect David's Seventy-First Psalm bore a prophetic element, at least for the early days of Solomon's reign. Share When have you felt such a heavy hand of discipline from the Lord God that you wondered if He would ever relent? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you some encouraging memories of the Lord God's blessings for you. Action: Today I will make time to give praise to the Lord and will share that with at least one other believer. I will make a short list of His past blessings and post it somewhere so that when I feel troubled I may remember the proof that he loves me. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Psalms 78 - 83 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat May 7 23:39:22 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 07 May 2011 23:39:22 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Novell Deals Done Message-ID: <4DC6106A.1000907@lightlink.com> Directly speaking, Microsoft, with the help of its partners, Apple, EMC, and Oracle, in the CPTN Group has not, though, actually bought Novell's patents as most people would understand the word "bought." Instead, CPTN was forced, by the U.S. Department of Justice and the German Federal Cartel Office to re-sell the patents back to Attachmate . In return, the CPTN gets licensing rights to use the patents. For Microsoft and friends, the most vexing part of the deal is that All of the Novell patents will be subject to the GNU General Public License, Version 2 (GPLv2) and the Open Invention Network (OIN)patent-pool agreements . In other words, Microsoft can't use these patents against Linux or other open-source programs. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/novell-deals-done/8755 -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Sun May 8 23:19:53 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 22:19:53 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: References: <4D78B42B.7010801@gmail.com><7136F2CB-4FD8-41F0-B427-BF801620C193@ofb.biz> Message-ID: Dear Friends: Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all over Mexico City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. Family Radio used to be good Christian doctrine. And Mr. Harold Camping must have now gone from great Bible studies to smoking weed! Wow! He is now no different than Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists and other wackos. See http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/outreach/tracts/may21/ One more group gives the non-believers reason to mock the Gospel. And let us hope they are humble enough to ask forgiveness for their heresy on May 22. But I won't hold my breath... THE BOOK SAYS: NO MAN KNOWS THE HOUR. Dr. Stephen Wilson San Juan del R?o, Quer?taro, Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6105 (20110508) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kf6snj at lycos.com Mon May 9 00:12:32 2011 From: kf6snj at lycos.com (Christopher Rose) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 04:12:32 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group predicts final judgement for May 21st. References: <4D78B42B.7010801@gmail.com><7136F2CB-4FD8-41F0-B427-BF801620C193@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <1262893108.287576.1304914352154.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> I sent an e-mail about this to the former speaker for the Lutheran Hour, Rev. Ken. Klaus. He says that it is not uncommon for people to be concerned about the end of the world. Seems these things have been circulating for centuries. However, scripture does clearly say that no one can know the day or hour. Bear in mind, however, that this type of proof texting is far more common in the church than many would like to believe. Indeed, this is exactly the same type of theology used by Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey, and others. Rather ironically, it is a statistical fact that millenialism is primarily an american belief. On a world wide basis, most Christians are amillenial. Notwithstanding, I do hope and pray they will seek forgiveness for this heresy. However, when we forgive them, we must also charge them to stick to the words of scripture as written and not to read anything into them. Grammatical-literal, but also recognize when something is a metaphor or hyperbole. May 8, 2011 11:20:07 PM, proyectopuente at hotmail.com wrote: =========================================== Dear Friends: Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all over Mexico City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. Family Radio used to be good Christian doctrine. And Mr. Harold Camping must have now gone from great Bible studies to smoking weed! Wow! He is now no different than Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists and other wackos. See http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/outreach/tracts/may21/ One more group gives the non-believers reason to mock the Gospel. And let us hope they are humble enough to ask forgiveness for their heresy on May 22. But I won't hold my breath... THE BOOK SAYS: NO MAN KNOWS THE HOUR. Dr. Stephen WilsonSan Juan del R?o, Quer?taro, Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6105 (20110508) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From wa3fkg at gmail.com Mon May 9 00:25:39 2011 From: wa3fkg at gmail.com (Ken Sprouse) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 00:25:39 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Talk radio Message-ID: I know I have posted this to the group before but it has been a while so I would like to pass along this link to any new members that may not have seen it. I listen to a fair amount of talk radio both at the local and national level. It is hard though to find talk radio where they are not afraid to discuss good Christian doctrine. I get a good dose of that from Issues etc hosted by Pastor Todd Wilken who brings a conservative view to the program. Since I work during the day when the program is broadcast live I can't always be at my desk where I can listen so that fact that they "podcast" the show is great for me. The show is available on iTunes as well as through regular RSS feed. I use gPodder on my Linux systems to collect a number of podcasts Issues etc among them. If you think the show would be of interest to you you can visit their web site here. http://issuesetc.org/ This is the RSS link to download the show. http://www.issuesetc.org/podcast/podcast.xml -- Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG John 3:16 http://www.wa3fkg.com You meet the nicest people at a TEA Party. The box said "Win98/2000/XP or better" so I installed Linux! Smith & Wesson - The ultimate point and click user interface. If handguns cause crime, mine is defective. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 9 00:56:59 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Sun, 8 May 2011 23:56:59 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: <1262893108.287576.1304914352154.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> References: <4D78B42B.7010801@gmail.com><7136F2CB-4FD8-41F0-B427-BF801620C193@ofb.biz> <1262893108.287576.1304914352154.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> Message-ID: <96626337-9E64-4FF7-9E55-880861E6A8E9@ofb.biz> On May 8, 2011, at 11:12 PM, Christopher Rose wrote: > On a world wide basis, most Christians are amillenial. Indeed. As a recovering LaHaye-ite, I agree. I eventually felt I couldn't intellectually justify the hoops I needed to jump through. It shocked me when I realized all the great theologians I started reading about were amil (or maybe post-mil) and many of them didn't emphasize millennial views much at all. As one of my professors back in seminary likes to say: "I'm all-mill... it all works out in the end." -Tim From parrisdc at gmail.com Mon May 9 02:47:14 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 02:47:14 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: <96626337-9E64-4FF7-9E55-880861E6A8E9@ofb.biz> References: <4D78B42B.7010801@gmail.com> <7136F2CB-4FD8-41F0-B427-BF801620C193@ofb.biz> <1262893108.287576.1304914352154.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> <96626337-9E64-4FF7-9E55-880861E6A8E9@ofb.biz> Message-ID: On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 00:56, Timothy Butler wrote: > > On May 8, 2011, at 11:12 PM, Christopher Rose wrote: > > > On a world wide basis, most Christians are amillenial. > > Indeed. As a recovering LaHaye-ite, I agree. I eventually felt I couldn't > intellectually justify the hoops I needed to jump through. It shocked me > when I realized all the great theologians I started reading about were amil > (or maybe post-mil) and many of them didn't emphasize millennial views much > at all. > > As one of my professors back in seminary likes to say: "I'm all-mill... it > all works out in the end." > > -Tim > I'm of the view that Jesus will return when He will. Whether tomorrow afternoon at 13:07 or in the year 4053 - or whenever. My interest in "The End" has always been peripheral. It's ok to think about my work schedule. I need to know how to plan my day. But in the bigger picture of Eternity, it matters more *what* I do each day until my King returns. That said, I find that, that things we assume and take for granted simply have never been assumed or taken for granted in other parts of the world. Millennialism and Prohibition (born largely out of American Methodist Theology) are just 2 examples. Christians didn't put much emphasis on alcohol until the mid-19th Century. Now, roughly 1 1/2 centuries later, we have a whole sub-culture here in America that believes "Thou Shalt Not Consume Alcohol" was the 11th Commandment. Snicker snicker! Blessings, Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 9 02:55:41 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 23:55:41 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] JULinux 9 64 bit is out for those of you who want to give it a spin. In-Reply-To: References: <4D78B42B.7010801@gmail.com> <7136F2CB-4FD8-41F0-B427-BF801620C193@ofb.biz> <1262893108.287576.1304914352154.JavaMail.mail@webmail12> <96626337-9E64-4FF7-9E55-880861E6A8E9@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4DC78FED.8020007@mindblowingidea.com> You can get it here: http://linuxtracker.org/index.php?page=torrent-details&id=b02ffa2becf4dbd71d760ad3ae4b1dfdddcc5770 or here: www.mindblowingidea.com/JULinux9_64bit -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlormand at smalltimer.net Mon May 9 04:30:36 2011 From: dlormand at smalltimer.net (David Ormand) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 01:30:36 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group, predicts final judgement for May 21st. Message-ID: <4DC7A62C.5050705@smalltimer.net> > Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all over Mexico City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. Yep, saw something like that in West Virginia recently, when I was there on business. I figured the other fellows in the car with me probably had the usual "stupid Christians" reaction. > Christians didn't put much emphasis on alcohol until the mid-19th Century. > Now, roughly 1 1/2 centuries later, we have a whole sub-culture here in > America that believes "Thou Shalt Not Consume Alcohol" was the 11th > Commandment. Snicker snicker! As a Southern Baptist, I think I'm about over that now. Still prevalent in my church among the older generation. As a "church covenant" thing, I think it is a fine thing. As a point of judgment... not. Now, having recently taken a discipleship class that emphasized "giving" in the usual Baptist terms, I am reacting to the Tithe as another evangelical-accepted legalism. I don't see any good support in Scripture that the Tithe is an obligation on Christians. I don't think I'm going to convince my SB pastors, though! (sorry about derailing this thread!) From parrisdc at gmail.com Mon May 9 05:28:25 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 05:28:25 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group, predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: <4DC7A62C.5050705@smalltimer.net> References: <4DC7A62C.5050705@smalltimer.net> Message-ID: On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 04:30, David Ormand wrote: > > Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all over > Mexico City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. > > Yep, saw something like that in West Virginia recently, when I was there on > business. I figured the other fellows in the car with me probably had the > usual "stupid Christians" reaction. > > Christians didn't put much emphasis on alcohol until the mid-19th >> Century. >> Now, roughly 1 1/2 centuries later, we have a whole sub-culture here in >> America that believes "Thou Shalt Not Consume Alcohol" was the 11th >> Commandment. Snicker snicker! >> > > As a Southern Baptist, I think I'm about over that now. Still prevalent in > my church among the older generation. As a "church covenant" thing, I think > it is a fine thing. As a point of judgment... not. > Now, having recently taken a discipleship class that emphasized "giving" in > the usual Baptist terms, I am reacting to the Tithe as another > evangelical-accepted legalism. I don't see any good support in Scripture > that the Tithe is an obligation on Christians. I don't think I'm going to > convince my SB pastors, though! > > (sorry about derailing this thread!) > > > Well, you raise another of my favorite points, which wouldn't set well with my fellow National Baptists, either. Adhering to tithing is the same as adhering to circumcision in my book - Galatians, anyone? :-) But I think we're only derailing this thread to the extent that we're not strictly focused on the end-times. We're focusing more on Tim's comment about the differences between American theology and that of our brethren around the world, though I think a greater number of non-American believers practice tithing than abstention or prohibition. Blessings, Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 8 21:27:54 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 08 May 2011 21:27:54 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Psalms 78 - 83 Message-ID: <4DC7431A.3050703@bibleseven.com> Monday Psalms 78 - 83 Psalm 78 78:1 A well-written song by Asaph. Pay attention, my people, to my instruction! Listen to the words I speak! 78:2 I will sing a song that imparts wisdom; I will make insightful observations about the past. 78:3 What we have heard and learned -- that which our ancestors have told us -- 78:4 we will not hide from their descendants. We will tell the next generation about the Lord's praiseworthy acts, about his strength and the amazing things he has done. 78:5 He established a rule in Jacob; he set up a law in Israel. He commanded our ancestors to make his deeds known to their descendants, 78:6 so that the next generation, children yet to be born, might know about them. They will grow up and tell their descendants about them. 78:7 Then they will place their confidence in God. They will not forget the works of God, and they will obey his commands. 78:8 Then they will not be like their ancestors, who were a stubborn and rebellious generation, a generation that was not committed and faithful to God. 78:9 The Ephraimites were armed with bows, but they retreated in the day of battle. 78:10 They did not keep their covenant with God, and they refused to obey his law. 78:11 They forgot what he had done, the amazing things he had shown them. 78:12 He did amazing things in the sight of their ancestors, in the land of Egypt, in the region of Zoan. 78:13 He divided the sea and led them across it; he made the water stand in a heap. 78:14 He led them with a cloud by day, and with the light of a fire all night long. 78:15 He broke open rocks in the wilderness, and gave them enough water to fill the depths of the sea. 78:16 He caused streams to flow from the rock, and made the water flow like rivers. 78:17 Yet they continued to sin against him, and rebelled against the sovereign One in the desert. 78:18 They willfully challenged God by asking for food to satisfy their appetite. 78:19 They insulted God, saying, "Is God really able to give us food in the wilderness? 78:20 Yes, he struck a rock and water flowed out, streams gushed forth. But can he also give us food? Will he provide meat for his people?" 78:21 When the Lord heard this, he was furious. A fire broke out against Jacob, and his anger flared up against Israel, 78:22 because they did not have faith in God, and did not trust his ability to deliver them. 78:23 He gave a command to the clouds above, and opened the doors in the sky. 78:24 He rained down manna for them to eat; he gave them the grain of heaven. 78:25 Man ate the food of the mighty ones. He sent them more than enough to eat. 78:26 He brought the east wind through the sky, and by his strength led forth the south wind. 78:27 He rained down meat on them like dust, birds as numerous as the sand on the seashores. 78:28 He caused them to fall right in the middle of their camp, all around their homes. 78:29 They ate until they were stuffed; he gave them what they desired. 78:30 They were not yet filled up, their food was still in their mouths, 78:31 when the anger of God flared up against them. He killed some of the strongest of them; he brought the young men of Israel to their knees. 78:32 Despite all this, they continued to sin, and did not trust him to do amazing things. 78:33 So he caused them to die unsatisfied and filled with terror. 78:34 When he struck them down, they sought his favor; they turned back and longed for God. 78:35 They remembered that God was their protector, and that the sovereign God was their deliverer. 78:36 But they deceived him with their words, and lied to him. 78:37 They were not really committed to him, and they were unfaithful to his covenant. 78:38 Yet he is compassionate. He forgives sin and does not destroy. He often holds back his anger, and does not stir up his fury. 78:39 He remembered that they were made of flesh, and were like a wind that blows past and does not return. 78:40 How often they rebelled against him in the wilderness, and insulted him in the desert! 78:41 They again challenged God, and offended the Holy One of Israel. 78:42 They did not remember what he had done, how he delivered them from the enemy, 78:43 when he performed his awesome deeds in Egypt, and his acts of judgment in the region of Zoan. 78:44 He turned their rivers into blood, and they could not drink from their streams. 78:45 He sent swarms of biting insects against them, as well as frogs that overran their land. 78:46 He gave their crops to the grasshopper, the fruit of their labor to the locust. 78:47 He destroyed their vines with hail, and their sycamore-fig trees with driving rain. 78:48 He rained hail down on their cattle, and hurled lightning bolts down on their livestock. 78:49 His raging anger lashed out against them, He sent fury, rage, and trouble as messengers who bring disaster. 78:50 He sent his anger in full force; he did not spare them from death; he handed their lives over to destruction. 78:51 He struck down all the firstborn in Egypt, the firstfruits of their reproductive power in the tents of Ham. 78:52 Yet he brought out his people like sheep; he led them through the wilderness like a flock. 78:53 He guided them safely along, while the sea covered their enemies. 78:54 He brought them to the border of his holy land, to this mountainous land which his right hand acquired. 78:55 He drove the nations out from before them; he assigned them their tribal allotments and allowed the tribes of Israel to settle down. 78:56 Yet they challenged and defied the sovereign God, and did not obey his commands. 78:57 They were unfaithful and acted as treacherously as their ancestors; they were as unreliable as a malfunctioning bow. 78:58 They made him angry with their pagan shrines, and made him jealous with their idols. 78:59 God heard and was angry; he completely rejected Israel. 78:60 He abandoned the sanctuary at Shiloh, the tent where he lived among men. 78:61 He allowed the symbol of his strong presence to be captured; he gave the symbol of his splendor into the hand of the enemy. 78:62 He delivered his people over to the sword, and was angry with his chosen nation. 78:63 Fire consumed their young men, and their virgins remained unmarried. 78:64 Their priests fell by the sword, but their widows did not weep. 78:65 But then the Lord awoke from his sleep; he was like a warrior in a drunken rage. 78:66 He drove his enemies back; he made them a permanent target for insults. 78:67 He rejected the tent of Joseph; he did not choose the tribe of Ephraim. 78:68 He chose the tribe of Judah, and Mount Zion, which he loves. 78:69 He made his sanctuary as enduring as the heavens above; as secure as the earth, which he established permanently. 78:70 He chose David, his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds. 78:71 He took him away from following the mother sheep, and made him the shepherd of Jacob, his people, and of Israel, his chosen nation. 78:72 David cared for them with pure motives; he led them with skill. Psalm 79 79:1 A psalm of Asaph. O God, foreigners have invaded your chosen land; they have polluted your holy temple and turned Jerusalem into a heap of ruins. 79:2 They have given the corpses of your servants to the birds of the sky; the flesh of your loyal followers to the beasts of the earth. 79:3 They have made their blood flow like water all around Jerusalem, and there is no one to bury them. 79:4 We have become an object of disdain to our neighbors; those who live on our borders taunt and insult us. 79:5 How long will this go on, O Lord? Will you stay angry forever? How long will your rage burn like fire? 79:6 Pour out your anger on the nations that do not acknowledge you, on the kingdoms that do not pray to you! 79:7 For they have devoured Jacob and destroyed his home. 79:8 Do not hold us accountable for the sins of earlier generations! Quickly send your compassion our way, for we are in serious trouble! 79:9 Help us, O God, our deliverer! For the sake of your glorious reputation, rescue us! Forgive our sins for the sake of your reputation! 79:10 Why should the nations say, "Where is their God?" Before our very eyes may the shed blood of your servants be avenged among the nations! 79:11 Listen to the painful cries of the prisoners! Use your great strength to set free those condemned to die! 79:12 Pay back our neighbors in full! May they be insulted the same way they insulted you, O Lord! 79:13 Then we, your people, the sheep of your pasture, will continually thank you. We will tell coming generations of your praiseworthy acts. Psalm 80 80:1 For the music director; according to the /shushan-eduth/ style; a psalm of Asaph. O shepherd of Israel, pay attention, you who lead Joseph like a flock of sheep! You who sit enthroned above the winged angels, reveal your splendor! 80:2 In the sight of Ephraim, Benjamin, and Manasseh reveal your power! Come and deliver us! 80:3 O God, restore us! Smile on us! Then we will be delivered! 80:4 O Lord God, invincible warrior! How long will you remain angry at your people while they pray to you? 80:5 You have given them tears as food; you have made them drink tears by the measure. 80:6 You have made our neighbors dislike us, and our enemies insult us. 80:7 O God, invincible warrior, restore us! Smile on us! Then we will be delivered! 80:8 You uprooted a vine from Egypt; you drove out nations and transplanted it. 80:9 You cleared the ground for it; it took root, and filled the land. 80:10 The mountains were covered by its shadow, the highest cedars by its branches. 80:11 Its branches reached the Mediterranean Sea, and its shoots the Euphrates River. 80:12 Why did you break down its walls, so that all who pass by pluck its fruit? 80:13 The wild boars of the forest ruin it; the insects of the field feed on it. 80:14 O God, invincible warrior, come back! Look down from heaven and take notice! Take care of this vine, 80:15 the root your right hand planted, the shoot you made to grow! 80:16 It is burned and cut down. They die because you are displeased with them. 80:17 May you give support to the one you have chosen, to the one whom you raised up for yourself! 80:18 Then we will not turn away from you. Revive us and we will pray to you! 80:19 O Lord God, invincible warrior, restore us! Smile on us! Then we will be delivered! Psalm 81 81:1 For the music director; according to the /gittith/ style; by Asaph. Shout for joy to God, our source of strength! Shout out to the God of Jacob! 81:2 Sing a song and play the tambourine, the pleasant sounding harp, and the ten-stringed instrument! 81:3 Sound the ram's horn on the day of the new moon, and on the day of the full moon when our festival begins. 81:4 For observing the festival is a requirement for Israel; it is an ordinance given by the God of Jacob. 81:5 He decreed it as a regulation in Joseph, when he attacked the land of Egypt. I heard a voice I did not recognize. 81:6 It said: "I removed the burden from his shoulder; his hands were released from holding the basket. 81:7 In your distress you called out and I rescued you. I answered you from a dark thundercloud. I tested you at the waters of Meribah. (Selah) 81:8 I said, 'Listen, my people! I will warn you! O Israel, if only you would obey me! 81:9 There must be no other god among you. You must not worship a foreign god. 81:10 I am the Lord, your God, the one who brought you out of the land of Egypt. Open your mouth wide and I will fill it!' 81:11 But my people did not obey me; Israel did not submit to me. 81:12 I gave them over to their stubborn desires; they did what seemed right to them. 81:13 If only my people would obey me! If only Israel would keep my commands! 81:14 Then I would quickly subdue their enemies, and attack their adversaries." 81:15 (May those who hate the Lord cower in fear before him! May they be permanently humiliated!) 81:16 "I would feed Israel the best wheat, and would satisfy your appetite with honey from the rocky cliffs." Psalm 82 82:1 A psalm of Asaph. God stands in the assembly of El; in the midst of the gods he renders judgment. 82:2 He says, "How long will you make unjust legal decisions and show favoritism to the wicked? (Selah) 82:3 Defend the cause of the poor and the fatherless! Vindicate the oppressed and suffering! 82:4 Rescue the poor and needy! Deliver them from the power of the wicked! 82:5 They neither know nor understand. They stumble around in the dark, while all the foundations of the earth crumble. 82:6 I thought, 'You are gods; all of you are sons of the Most High.' 82:7 Yet you will die like mortals; you will fall like all the other rulers." 82:8 Rise up, O God, and execute judgment on the earth! For you own all the nations. Psalm 83 83:1 A song, a psalm of Asaph. O God, do not be silent! Do not ignore us! Do not be inactive, O God! 83:2 For look, your enemies are making a commotion; those who hate you are hostile. 83:3 They carefully plot against your people, and make plans to harm the ones you cherish. 83:4 They say, "Come on, let's annihilate them so they are no longer a nation! Then the name of Israel will be remembered no more." 83:5 Yes, they devise a unified strategy; they form an alliance against you. 83:6 It includes the tents of Edom and the Ishmaelites, Moab and the Hagrites, 83:7 Gebal, Ammon, and Amalek, Philistia and the inhabitants of Tyre. 83:8 Even Assyria has allied with them, lending its strength to the descendants of Lot. (Selah) 83:9 Do to them as you did to Midian -- as you did to Sisera and Jabin at the Kishon River! 83:10 They were destroyed at Endor; their corpses were like manure on the ground. 83:11 Make their nobles like Oreb and Zeeb, and all their rulers like Zebah and Zalmunna, 83:12 who said, "Let's take over the pastures of God!" 83:13 O my God, make them like dead thistles, like dead weeds blown away by the wind! 83:14 Like the fire that burns down the forest, or the flames that consume the mountainsides, 83:15 chase them with your gale winds, and terrify them with your windstorm. 83:16 Cover their faces with shame, so they might seek you, O Lord. 83:17 May they be humiliated and continually terrified! May they die in shame! 83:18 Then they will know that you alone are the Lord, the sovereign king over all the earth. Prayer Lord, You have been faithful to Your covenant, including both the protection and provision for obedience and the negative consequences for disobedience. May I not complain when You chastise me as it is always a perfectly-proportional response to my disobedience. Commentary Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-eight, was a wisdom-song in which he reviewed the long history of the Lord God's protection and provision of His people, concluding with the reign of king David. Asaph's Psalm, numbered seventy-nine, was a petition for rescue as Israel was over-run by her enemies. Asaph asked that the sins of the past not be held against the current generation and offered that a restored Israel would give all praise to the Lord God. Asaph's Psalm, numbered eighty, continued the petition of seventy-nine with the reference to the Lord God as the "invincible warrior". Asaph's Psalm, numbered eighty-one, described the obligation of Israel to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles (Booths) -- per the NET translator's notes -- and linked that act of obedience to the Lord God's intervention and rescue. Asaph's Psalm, numbered eighty-two, was a wisdom-song with an imprecatory prayer where he asked the Lord God to judge and punish the Cannanites and their false religion. Asaph's Psalm, numbered eighty-three, returns to the petition-song theme for the Lord God's rescue and also contained an imprecatory prayer for the destruction of their enemies. Interaction Consider The history of the Lord God's protection and provision of His people is amazing. He always kept His part of the covenant. Discuss Why would Asaph expect the Lord God to relent from His judgment of the nation of Israel after the long history of chronic rebellion? Reflect Asaph seemed to see mostly the consequences rather than the cause of Israel's troubles. Share When have you troubles and later realized that if you had focused on the cause rather than the symptoms of the trouble you would have found relief sooner? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a list of times when He has protected and/or provided for you. Action: Today I will give praise to the Lord God for His faithfulness, I will share the story with a fellow believer, and I will Psalm seventy-eight several times this week as a reinforcement of my confidence in the Lord's faithfulness. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Psalms 84 - 89 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kf6snj at lycos.com Mon May 9 09:50:36 2011 From: kf6snj at lycos.com (Christopher Rose) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 13:50:36 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Linux4christians] Talk radio References: Message-ID: <788182391.294509.1304949036170.JavaMail.mail@webmail11> Todd Wilken and the rest of the Issue Etc. team are very conservative people (Todd is on my facebook list). They look at scripture and what it says, nothing more. May 9, 2011 12:25:47 AM, linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net wrote: =========================================== I know I have posted this to the group before but it has been a while so I would like to pass along this link to any new members that may not have seen it. ?I listen to a fair amount of talk radio both at the local and national level. ?It is hard though to find talk radio where they are not afraid to discuss good Christian doctrine. ?I get a good dose of that from Issues etc hosted by Pastor Todd Wilken who brings a conservative view to the program. ?Since I work during the day when the program is broadcast live I can't always be at my desk where I can listen so that fact that they "podcast" the show is great for me. The show is available on iTunes as well as through regular RSS feed. ?I use gPodder on my Linux systems to collect a number of podcasts Issues etc among them. ?If you think the show would be of interest to you you can visit their web site here. http://issuesetc.org/ This is the RSS link to download the show. http://www.issuesetc.org/podcast/podcast.xml -- Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG? ? ? John 3:16 ?http://www.wa3fkg.com You meet the nicest people at a TEA Party. The box said "Win98/2000/XP or better" so I installed Linux! Smith & Wesson - The ultimate point and click user interface.If handguns cause crime, mine is defective.? _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 9 10:13:02 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 08:13:02 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: References: <4D78B42B.7010801@gmail.com> <7136F2CB-4FD8-41F0-B427-BF801620C193@ofb.biz> Message-ID: This same guy made the exact same prediction about 1994 and when his divine prophecy (sigh) failed to work on his schedule, he said his calculations were off because he hadn't "finished decoding the bible". It's bad enough for people to ignore the stark clarity of "no man knows the day nor the hour" once, but fool me twice... and that's not even getting into Edgar Whisenant ("88 Reasons the World Will End in '88") and his FIVE subsequent corrections. *PBS* On Sun, May 8, 2011 at 9:19 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. < proyectopuente at hotmail.com> wrote: > Dear Friends: > > Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all over Mexico > City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. Family Radio used > to be good Christian doctrine. And Mr. Harold Camping must have now gone > from great Bible studies to smoking weed! Wow! He is now no different than > Jehovah's Witnesses, Adventists and other wackos. > > See http://www.ebiblefellowship.com/outreach/tracts/may21/ > > One more group gives the non-believers reason to mock the Gospel. > > And let us hope they are humble enough to ask forgiveness for their heresy > on May 22. But I won't hold my breath... > > THE BOOK SAYS: NO MAN KNOWS THE HOUR. > > Dr. Stephen Wilson > San Juan del R?o, Quer?taro, Mexico > > > __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas > de virus 6105 (20110508) __________ > > ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 9 10:17:39 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 08:17:39 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Legalism and Southern Baptists Message-ID: David, you'd love the preacher at my church, a tiny rural place comprised largely of ranchers and one computer geek (me). Nominally the church is part of the SBC, but he managed to avoid all the idiocy by skipping seminary and just preaching straight from the Word. He says exactly what you say about tithing for the same reasons, and shares my view that it would all be so simple if we could just manage "Love the Lord" and "Love your neighbor" -- if we could do that much consistently, all the little details would take care of themselves. *PBS* On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:30 AM, David Ormand wrote: > As a Southern Baptist, I think I'm about over that now. Still prevalent in > my church among the older generation. As a "church covenant" thing, I think > it is a fine thing. As a point of judgment... not. > Now, having recently taken a discipleship class that emphasized "giving" in > the usual Baptist terms, I am reacting to the Tithe as another > evangelical-accepted legalism. I don't see any good support in Scripture > that the Tithe is an obligation on Christians. I don't think I'm going to > convince my SB pastors, though! > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 9 11:17:44 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 08:17:44 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Legalism and Southern Baptists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DC80598.2010701@mindblowingidea.com> The Baptists in my area up in the north west: www.biblevslies.org On 05/09/2011 07:17 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > David, you'd love the preacher at my church, a tiny rural place > comprised largely of ranchers and one computer geek (me). Nominally > the church is part of the SBC, but he managed to avoid all the idiocy > by skipping seminary and just preaching straight from the Word. He > says exactly what you say about tithing for the same reasons, and > shares my view that it would all be so simple if we could just manage > "Love the Lord" and "Love your neighbor" -- if we could do that much > consistently, all the little details would take care of themselves. > > */PBS/* > > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 2:30 AM, David Ormand > wrote: > > As a Southern Baptist, I think I'm about over that now. Still > prevalent in my church among the older generation. As a "church > covenant" thing, I think it is a fine thing. As a point of > judgment... not. > Now, having recently taken a discipleship class that emphasized > "giving" in the usual Baptist terms, I am reacting to the Tithe as > another evangelical-accepted legalism. I don't see any good > support in Scripture that the Tithe is an obligation on > Christians. I don't think I'm going to convince my SB pastors, > though! > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 9 13:22:51 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 11:22:51 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Legalism and Southern Baptists In-Reply-To: <4DC80598.2010701@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DC80598.2010701@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 9:17 AM, usacomputertech < usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com> wrote: > The Baptists in my area up in the north west: www.biblevslies.org > > I'm getting a domain not found error trying to follow that link. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parrisdc at gmail.com Mon May 9 16:50:28 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Mon, 9 May 2011 16:50:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Legalism and Southern Baptists In-Reply-To: References: <4DC80598.2010701@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: Actually, Peter, I'd love that pastor of yours, too. He's preaching right up my alley. :-) On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 13:22, Peter B. Steiger < webservant at trinitybclaramie.org> wrote: > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 9:17 AM, usacomputertech < > usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com> wrote: > >> The Baptists in my area up in the north west: www.biblevslies.org >> >> > I'm getting a domain not found error trying to follow that link. > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 9 22:55:07 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 09 May 2011 22:55:07 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Psalms 84 - 89 Message-ID: <4DC8A90B.5070304@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Psalms 84 - 89 Psalm 84 84:1 For the music director; according to the /gittith/ style; written by the Korahites, a psalm. How lovely is the place where you live, O Lord who rules over all! 84:2 I desperately want to be in the courts of the Lord's temple. My heart and my entire being shout for joy to the living God. 84:3 Even the birds find a home there, and the swallow builds a nest, where she can protect her young near your altars, O Lord who rules over all, my king and my God. 84:4 How blessed are those who live in your temple and praise you continually! (Selah) 84:5 How blessed are those who find their strength in you, and long to travel the roads that lead to your temple! 84:6 As they pass through the Baca Valley, he provides a spring for them. The rain even covers it with pools of water. 84:7 They are sustained as they travel along; each one appears before God in Zion. 84:8 O Lord, sovereign God, hear my prayer! Listen, O God of Jacob! (Selah) 84:9 O God, take notice of our shield! Show concern for your chosen king! 84:10 Certainly spending just one day in your temple courts is better than spending a thousand elsewhere. I would rather stand at the entrance to the temple of my God than live in the tents of the wicked. 84:11 For the Lord God is our sovereign protector. The Lord bestows favor and honor; he withholds no good thing from those who have integrity. 84:12 O Lord who rules over all, how blessed are those who trust in you! Psalm 85 85:1 For the music director; written by the Korahites, a psalm. O Lord, you showed favor to your land; you restored the well-being of Jacob. 85:2 You pardoned the wrongdoing of your people; you forgave all their sin. (Selah) 85:3 You withdrew all your fury; you turned back from your raging anger. 85:4 Restore us, O God our deliverer! Do not be displeased with us! 85:5 Will you stay mad at us forever? Will you remain angry throughout future generations? 85:6 Will you not revive us once more? Then your people will rejoice in you! 85:7 O Lord, show us your loyal love! Bestow on us your deliverance! 85:8 I will listen to what God the Lord says. For he will make peace with his people, his faithful followers. Yet they must not return to their foolish ways. 85:9 Certainly his loyal followers will soon experience his deliverance; then his splendor will again appear in our land. 85:10 Loyal love and faithfulness meet; deliverance and peace greet each other with a kiss. 85:11 Faithfulness grows from the ground, and deliverance looks down from the sky. 85:12 Yes, the Lord will bestow his good blessings, and our land will yield its crops. 85:13 Deliverance goes before him, and prepares a pathway for him. Psalm 86 86:1 A prayer of David. Listen O Lord! Answer me! For I am oppressed and needy. 86:2 Protect me, for I am loyal! O my God, deliver your servant, who trusts in you! 86:3 Have mercy on me, O Lord, for I cry out to you all day long! 86:4 Make your servant glad, for to you, O Lord, I pray! 86:5 Certainly O Lord, you are kind and forgiving, and show great faithfulness to all who cry out to you. 86:6 O Lord, hear my prayer! Pay attention to my plea for mercy! 86:7 In my time of trouble I cry out to you, for you will answer me. 86:8 None can compare to you among the gods, O Lord! Your exploits are incomparable! 86:9 All the nations, whom you created, will come and worship you, O Lord. They will honor your name. 86:10 For you are great and do amazing things. You alone are God. 86:11 O Lord, teach me how you want me to live! Then I will obey your commands. Make me wholeheartedly committed to you! 86:12 O Lord, my God, I will give you thanks with my whole heart! I will honor your name continually! 86:13 For you will extend your great loyal love to me, and will deliver my life from the depths of Sheol. 86:14 O God, arrogant men attack me; a gang of ruthless men, who do not respect you, seek my life. 86:15 But you, O Lord, are a compassionate and merciful God. You are patient and demonstrate great loyal love and faithfulness. 86:16 Turn toward me and have mercy on me! Give your servant your strength! Deliver your slave! 86:17 Show me evidence of your favor! Then those who hate me will see it and be ashamed, for you, O Lord, will help me and comfort me. Psalm 87 87:1 Written by the Korahites; a psalm, a song. The Lord's city is in the holy hills. 87:2 The Lord loves the gates of Zion more than all the dwelling places of Jacob. 87:3 People say wonderful things about you, O city of God. (Selah) 87:4 I mention Rahab and Babylon to my followers. Here are Philistia and Tyre, along with Ethiopia. It is said of them, "This one was born there." 87:5 But it is said of Zion's residents, "Each one of these was born in her, and the sovereign One makes her secure." 87:6 The Lord writes in the census book of the nations, "This one was born there." (Selah) 87:7 As for the singers, as well as the pipers -- all of them sing within your walls. Psalm 88 88:1 A song, a psalm written by the Korahites; for the music director; according to the /machalath-leannoth/ style; a well-written song by Heman the Ezrachite. O Lord God who delivers me! By day I cry out and at night I pray before you. 88:2 Listen to my prayer! Pay attention to my cry for help! 88:3 For my life is filled with troubles and I am ready to enter Sheol. 88:4 They treat me like those who descend into the grave. I am like a helpless man, 88:5 adrift among the dead, like corpses lying in the grave, whom you remember no more, and who are cut off from your power. 88:6 You place me in the lowest regions of the pit, in the dark places, in the watery depths. 88:7 Your anger bears down on me, and you overwhelm me with all your waves. (Selah) 88:8 You cause those who know me to keep their distance; you make me an appalling sight to them. I am trapped and cannot get free. 88:9 My eyes grow weak because of oppression. I call out to you, O Lord, all day long; I spread out my hands in prayer to you. 88:10 Do you accomplish amazing things for the dead? Do the departed spirits rise up and give you thanks? (Selah) 88:11 Is your loyal love proclaimed in the grave, or your faithfulness in the place of the dead? 88:12 Are your amazing deeds experienced in the dark region, or your deliverance in the land of oblivion? 88:13 As for me, I cry out to you, O Lord; in the morning my prayer confronts you. 88:14 O Lord, why do you reject me, and pay no attention to me? 88:15 I am oppressed and have been on the verge of death since my youth. I have been subjected to your horrors and am numb with pain. 88:16 Your anger overwhelms me; your terrors destroy me. 88:17 They surround me like water all day long; they join forces and encircle me. 88:18 You cause my friends and neighbors to keep their distance; those who know me leave me alone in the darkness. Psalm 89 89:1 A well-written song by Ethan the Ezrachite. I will sing continually about the Lord's faithful deeds; to future generations I will proclaim your faithfulness. 89:2 For I say, "Loyal love is permanently established; in the skies you set up your faithfulness." 89:3 The Lord said, "I have made a covenant with my chosen one; I have made a promise on oath to David, my servant: 89:4 'I will give you an eternal dynasty and establish your throne throughout future generations.'" (Selah) 89:5 O Lord, the heavens praise your amazing deeds, as well as your faithfulness in the angelic assembly. 89:6 For who in the skies can compare to the Lord? Who is like the Lord among the heavenly beings, 89:7 a God who is honored in the great angelic assembly, and more awesome than all who surround him? 89:8 O Lord, sovereign God! Who is strong like you, O Lord? Your faithfulness surrounds you. 89:9 You rule over the proud sea. When its waves surge, you calm them. 89:10 You crushed the Proud One and killed it; with your strong arm you scattered your enemies. 89:11 The heavens belong to you, as does the earth. You made the world and all it contains. 89:12 You created the north and the south. Tabor and Hermon rejoice in your name. 89:13 Your arm is powerful, your hand strong, your right hand victorious. 89:14 Equity and justice are the foundation of your throne. Loyal love and faithfulness characterize your rule. 89:15 How blessed are the people who worship you! O Lord, they experience your favor. 89:16 They rejoice in your name all day long, and are vindicated by your justice. 89:17 For you give them splendor and strength. By your favor we are victorious. 89:18 For our shield belongs to the Lord, our king to the Holy One of Israel. 89:19 Then you spoke through a vision to your faithful followers and said: "I have energized a warrior; I have raised up a young man from the people. 89:20 I have discovered David, my servant. With my holy oil I have anointed him as king. 89:21 My hand will support him, and my arm will strengthen him. 89:22 No enemy will be able to exact tribute from him; a violent oppressor will not be able to humiliate him. 89:23 I will crush his enemies before him; I will strike down those who hate him. 89:24 He will experience my faithfulness and loyal love, and by my name he will win victories. 89:25 I will place his hand over the sea, his right hand over the rivers. 89:26 He will call out to me, 'You are my father, my God, and the protector who delivers me.' 89:27 I will appoint him to be my firstborn son, the most exalted of the earth's kings. 89:28 I will always extend my loyal love to him, and my covenant with him is secure. 89:29 I will give him an eternal dynasty, and make his throne as enduring as the skies above. 89:30 If his sons reject my law and disobey my regulations, 89:31 if they break my rules and do not keep my commandments, 89:32 I will punish their rebellion by beating them with a club, their sin by inflicting them with bruises. 89:33 But I will not remove my loyal love from him, nor be unfaithful to my promise. 89:34 I will not break my covenant or go back on what I promised. 89:35 Once and for all I have vowed by my own holiness, I will never deceive David. 89:36 His dynasty will last forever. His throne will endure before me, like the sun, 89:37 it will remain stable, like the moon, his throne will endure like the skies." (Selah) 89:38 But you have spurned and rejected him; you are angry with your chosen king. 89:39 You have repudiated your covenant with your servant; you have thrown his crown to the ground. 89:40 You have broken down all his walls; you have made his strongholds a heap of ruins. 89:41 All who pass by have robbed him; he has become an object of disdain to his neighbors. 89:42 You have allowed his adversaries to be victorious, and all his enemies to rejoice. 89:43 You turn back his sword from the adversary, and have not sustained him in battle. 89:44 You have brought to an end his splendor, and have knocked his throne to the ground. 89:45 You have cut short his youth, and have covered him with shame. (Selah) 89:46 How long, O Lord, will this last? Will you remain hidden forever? Will your anger continue to burn like fire? 89:47 Take note of my brief lifespan! Why do you make all people so mortal? 89:48 No man can live on without experiencing death, or deliver his life from the power of Sheol. (Selah) 89:49 Where are your earlier faithful deeds, O Lord, the ones performed in accordance with your reliable oath to David? 89:50 Take note, O Lord, of the way your servants are taunted, and of how I must bear so many insults from people! 89:51 Your enemies, O Lord, hurl insults; they insult your chosen king as they dog his footsteps. 89:52 The Lord deserves praise forevermore! We agree! We agree! Prayer Lord, You have been so consistent over time that the Psalmists were able to use the telling of history to describe Your great faithfulness and power. May I know Your Word well enough that I am encouraged by Your faithfulness and may encourage others as well. Commentary Asaph's Psalm, numbered eighty-four, was a praise-song with the following unique phrase "... spending just one day in your temple courts is better than spending a thousand elsewhere." Asaph's Psalm, numbered eighty-five, was a petition which recalled God's mercy upon Israel despite their past transgressions and asked that He show mercy one more time. David's Psalm, numbered eighty-six, was a prayer of petition for rescue. A Psalm by the Korahites, numbered eighty-seven, celebrated the unique privilege of being born in the city of Zion as a symbolic association with the Lord God. A Psalm by the Korahites, specifically Heman the Ezrachite, numbered eighty-eight was a petition for rescue. A Psalm by the Korahites, specifically Ethan the Ezrachite, numbered eighty-nine began with praise, then contained wisdom about the call of David as king, then turned to a petition for rescue. Interaction Consider David was joined by Asaph, a cooperative Psalm by multiple Korahites, Heman the Ezrachite, and Ethan the Ezrachite in writing God-inspired Psalms. Discuss Why would Asaph cling to the belief that God might relent from His anger against rebellious Israel when He had announced that He would not? Reflect There is powerful perspective in this phrase "... spending just one day in your temple courts is better than spending a thousand elsewhere." Share When have you had a moment in the 'presence' of the Lord God and found anything and everything else paled in comparison? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a time and place in your day which is best suited for frequent moments alone with the Lord God. Action: Today I will begin the day with a reasonable plan to get-apart with the Lord. It is not to be a rigid ritual, it needs not copy what others do but will be uniquely tailored to my life, it may not work out every single day, but it will be intentional and will be when and where and how the Holy Spirit leads. It may be parked somewhere in my car, sitting outside, kneeling next to my bed, standing in a room, or in some other location. It will likely include reading some Biblical text, it will include prayer, it will include quiet reflection, it may include music -- listening and/or singing along, and it may vary in length. It will not always be powerful but it must always be 'real.' Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Psalms 90 - 94 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue May 10 10:30:26 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 10:30:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Hellman's mayonnaise Message-ID: <4DC94C02.6010508@lightlink.com> Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was manufactured in England In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico, which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its stop in New York. This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise ever delivered to Mexico. But as we know, the great ship did not make it to New York. The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost. The people of Mexico, who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss. Their anguish was so great, that they declared a National Day of Mourning, which they still observe to this day. The National Day of Mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is known, of course, as - Sinko De Mayo. WHAT??! You expected something educational from me?! -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 11 00:08:04 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 00:08:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Psalms 90 - 94 Message-ID: <4DCA0BA4.3030503@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Psalms 90 - 94 Book 4 (Psalms 90-106) Psalm 90 90:1 A prayer of Moses, the man of God. O Lord, you have been our protector through all generations! 90:2 Even before the mountains came into existence, or you brought the world into being, you were the eternal God. 90:3 You make mankind return to the dust, and say, "Return, O people!" 90:4 Yes, in your eyes a thousand years are like yesterday that quickly passes, or like one of the divisions of the nighttime. 90:5 You bring their lives to an end and they "fall asleep." In the morning they are like the grass that sprouts up; 90:6 in the morning it glistens and sprouts up; at evening time it withers and dries up. 90:7 Yes, we are consumed by your anger; we are terrified by your wrath. 90:8 You are aware of our sins; you even know about our hidden sins. 90:9 Yes, throughout all our days we experience your raging fury; the years of our lives pass quickly, like a sigh. 90:10 The days of our lives add up to seventy years, or eighty, if one is especially strong. But even one's best years are marred by trouble and oppression. Yes, they pass quickly and we fly away. 90:11 Who can really fathom the intensity of your anger? Your raging fury causes people to fear you. 90:12 So teach us to consider our mortality, so that we might live wisely. 90:13 Turn back toward us, O Lord! How long must this suffering last? Have pity on your servants! 90:14 Satisfy us in the morning with your loyal love! Then we will shout for joy and be happy all our days! 90:15 Make us happy in proportion to the days you have afflicted us, in proportion to the years we have experienced trouble! 90:16 May your servants see your work! May their sons see your majesty! 90:17 May our sovereign God extend his favor to us! Make our endeavors successful! Yes, make them successful! Psalm 91 91:1 As for you, the one who lives in the shelter of the sovereign One, and resides in the protective shadow of the mighty king -- 91:2 I say this about the Lord, my shelter and my stronghold, my God in whom I trust -- 91:3 he will certainly rescue you from the snare of the hunter and from the destructive plague. 91:4 He will shelter you with his wings; you will find safety under his wings. His faithfulness is like a shield or a protective wall. 91:5 You need not fear the terrors of the night, the arrow that flies by day, 91:6 the plague that comes in the darkness, or the disease that comes at noon. 91:7 Though a thousand may fall beside you, and a multitude on your right side, it will not reach you. 91:8 Certainly you will see it with your very own eyes -- you will see the wicked paid back. 91:9 For you have taken refuge in the Lord, my shelter, the sovereign One. 91:10 No harm will overtake you; no illness will come near your home. 91:11 For he will order his angels to protect you in all you do. 91:12 They will lift you up in their hands, so you will not slip and fall on a stone. 91:13 You will subdue a lion and a snake; you will trample underfoot a young lion and a serpent. 91:14 The Lord says, "Because he is devoted to me, I will deliver him; I will protect him because he is loyal to me. 91:15 When he calls out to me, I will answer him. I will be with him when he is in trouble; I will rescue him and bring him honor. 91:16 I will satisfy him with long life, and will let him see my salvation. Psalm 92 92:1 A psalm; a song for the Sabbath day. It is fitting to thank the Lord, and to sing praises to your name, O sovereign One! 92:2 It is fitting to proclaim your loyal love in the morning, and your faithfulness during the night, 92:3 to the accompaniment of a ten-stringed instrument and a lyre, to the accompaniment of the meditative tone of the harp. 92:4 For you, O Lord, have made me happy by your work. I will sing for joy because of what you have done. 92:5 How great are your works, O Lord! Your plans are very intricate! 92:6 The spiritually insensitive do not recognize this; the fool does not understand this. 92:7 When the wicked sprout up like grass, and all the evildoers glisten, it is so that they may be annihilated. 92:8 But you, O Lord, reign forever! 92:9 Indeed, look at your enemies, O Lord! Indeed, look at how your enemies perish! All the evildoers are scattered! 92:10 You exalt my horn like that of a wild ox. I am covered with fresh oil. 92:11 I gloat in triumph over those who tried to ambush me; I hear the defeated cries of the evil foes who attacked me. 92:12 The godly grow like a palm tree; they grow high like a cedar in Lebanon. 92:13 Planted in the Lord's house, they grow in the courts of our God. 92:14 They bear fruit even when they are old; they are filled with vitality and have many leaves. 92:15 So they proclaim that the Lord, my protector, is just and never unfair. Psalm 93 93:1 The Lord reigns! He is robed in majesty, the Lord is robed, he wears strength around his waist. Indeed, the world is established, it cannot be moved. 93:2 Your throne has been secure from ancient times; you have always been king. 93:3 The waves roar, O Lord, the waves roar, the waves roar and crash. 93:4 Above the sound of the surging water, and the mighty waves of the sea, the Lord sits enthroned in majesty. 93:5 The rules you set down are completely reliable. Holiness aptly adorns your house, O Lord, forever. Psalm 94 94:1 O Lord, the God who avenges! O God who avenges, reveal your splendor! 94:2 Rise up, O judge of the earth! Pay back the proud! 94:3 O Lord, how long will the wicked, how long will the wicked celebrate? 94:4 They spew out threats and speak defiantly; all the evildoers boast. 94:5 O Lord, they crush your people; they oppress the nation that belongs to you. 94:6 They kill the widow and the one residing outside his native land, and they murder the fatherless. 94:7 Then they say, "The Lord does not see this; the God of Jacob does not take notice of it." 94:8 Take notice of this, you ignorant people! You fools, when will you ever understand? 94:9 Does the one who makes the human ear not hear? Does the one who forms the human eye not see? 94:10 Does the one who disciplines the nations not punish? He is the one who imparts knowledge to human beings! 94:11 The Lord knows that peoples' thoughts are morally bankrupt. 94:12 How blessed is the one whom you instruct, O Lord, the one whom you teach from your law, 94:13 in order to protect him from times of trouble, until the wicked are destroyed. 94:14 Certainly the Lord does not forsake his people; he does not abandon the nation that belongs to him. 94:15 For justice will prevail, and all the morally upright will be vindicated. 94:16 Who will rise up to defend me against the wicked? Who will stand up for me against the evildoers? 94:17 If the Lord had not helped me, I would have laid down in the silence of death. 94:18 If I say, "My foot is slipping," your loyal love, O Lord, supports me. 94:19 When worries threaten to overwhelm me, your soothing touch makes me happy. 94:20 Cruel rulers are not your allies, those who make oppressive laws. 94:21 They conspire against the blameless, and condemn to death the innocent. 94:22 But the Lord will protect me, and my God will shelter me. 94:23 He will pay them back for their sin. He will destroy them because of their evil; the Lord our God will destroy them. Prayer Lord, You are so far above man in glory and honor that to give You praise is a natural response to our recognition of Who You are. May I read again the words of Your Bible whenever I need to be encouraged to praise and trust You. Commentary Psalm Ninety was a recitation of a prayer of Moses. It was a wisdom-prayer which contained one very unique statement "You bring their lives to an end and they "fall asleep." In the morning they are like the grass that sprouts up;" Psalm Ninety-One was unlabeled but matches the other praise-songs by David. It included powerful words of wisdom like "Though a thousand may fall beside you, and a multitude on your right side, it will not reach you." and "The Lord says ... I will satisfy him with long life, and will let him see my salvation." Psalm Ninety-Two is not labeled as to the author, it has been speculated that it was of David, of Moses, of one of the Kohalites, or a high priest. It was a prayer of praise which emphasized the protective care of the Lord God in times of trouble. It contained this wisdom-text "How great are your works, O Lord! Your plans are very intricate! The spiritually insensitive do not recognize this; the fool does not understand this." Psalm Ninety-Three was unlabeled but likely from a High Priest or one of the Kohalites. It was a praise-prayer which celebrated the Lord God's hand of power over the forces of the earth. Psalm Ninety-Four is similar in style to others of David. It combined elements of petition, praise, and wisdom. A unique phrase was "The Lord knows that peoples' thoughts are morally bankrupt. How blessed is the one whom you instruct, O Lord, the one whom you teach from your law," Interaction Consider The prayer of Moses in Psalm 91 strongly implies the doctrine of "soul sleep" wherein which the dead (in this case the text is addressing the faithful) are unaware of the passage of time until the Lord God raises them up. Discuss It is challenging and encouraging to know that the Lord God knows our thoughts and that they are damaged due to our fallen condition, but that He stands ready to "instruct" so that we might get it right? Reflect It is a great encouragement to know that we are "... under His wings" and that we may "... stand" in times of trouble because He is our strength. Share When have you been in a difficult place and could not have been able to "... stand" in your own strength but recalled these words and were therefore able to stand in His strength? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where your thoughts tend to go to the wrong place, or become confused, and you need Him to teach you. Action: Today I will humbly accept the teaching of the Lord God through His word, I will make time to be in His Word, and I will give Him thanks and praise for every time He -- the sovereign Lord God of eternity - teaches me. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Psalms 95 - 101 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed May 11 23:12:35 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 23:12:35 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder Message-ID: <4DCB5023.6070400@lightlink.com> Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder Microsoft is buying Skype, the video and Voice over Internet Protocol giant, for over seven billion in cash and this will help them how? READ FULL STORY I'm bemused to see that Microsoft's Grand Poobah Steve Ballmer has blundered yet again. This time, instead of Vista, the operating system that never should have seem the light of day, or Windows Phone 7, the far too little, too late, attempt to play in mobile devices, he's wasted a cool $8.5-billion (Billion!) on Skype . -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 11 23:32:48 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 23:32:48 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Psalms 95 - 101 Message-ID: <4DCB54E0.1000805@bibleseven.com> Thursday Psalms 95 - 101 Psalm 95 95:1 Come! Let's sing for joy to the Lord! Let's shout out praises to our protector who delivers us! 95:2 Let's enter his presence with thanksgiving! Let's shout out to him in celebration! 95:3 For the Lord is a great God, a great king who is superior to all gods. 95:4 The depths of the earth are in his hand, and the mountain peaks belong to him. 95:5 The sea is his, for he made it. His hands formed the dry land. 95:6 Come! Let's bow down and worship! Let's kneel before the Lord, our creator! 95:7 For he is our God; we are the people of his pasture, the sheep he owns. Today, if only you would obey him! 95:8 He says, "Do not be stubborn like they were at Meribah, like they were that day at Massah in the wilderness, 95:9 where your ancestors challenged my authority, and tried my patience, even though they had seen my work. 95:10 For forty years I was continually disgusted with that generation, and I said, 'These people desire to go astray; they do not obey my commands.' 95:11 So I made a vow in my anger, 'They will never enter into the resting place I had set aside for them.'" Psalm 96 96:1 Sing to the Lord a new song! Sing to the Lord, all the earth! 96:2 Sing to the Lord! Praise his name! Announce every day how he delivers! 96:3 Tell the nations about his splendor! Tell all the nations about his amazing deeds! 96:4 For the Lord is great and certainly worthy of praise; he is more awesome than all gods. 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are worthless, but the Lord made the sky. 96:6 Majestic splendor emanates from him; his sanctuary is firmly established and beautiful. 96:7 Ascribe to the Lord, O families of the nations, ascribe to the Lord splendor and strength! 96:8 Ascribe to the Lord the splendor he deserves! Bring an offering and enter his courts! 96:9 Worship the Lord in holy attire! Tremble before him, all the earth! 96:10 Say among the nations, "The Lord reigns! The world is established, it cannot be moved. He judges the nations fairly." 96:11 Let the sky rejoice, and the earth be happy! Let the sea and everything in it shout! 96:12 Let the fields and everything in them celebrate! Then let the trees of the forest shout with joy 96:13 before the Lord, for he comes! For he comes to judge the earth! He judges the world fairly, and the nations in accordance with his justice. Psalm 97 97:1 The Lord reigns! Let the earth be happy! Let the many coastlands rejoice! 97:2 Dark clouds surround him; equity and justice are the foundation of his throne. 97:3 Fire goes before him; on every side it burns up his enemies. 97:4 His lightning bolts light up the world; the earth sees and trembles. 97:5 The mountains melt like wax before the Lord, before the Lord of the whole earth. 97:6 The sky declares his justice, and all the nations see his splendor. 97:7 All who worship idols are ashamed, those who boast about worthless idols. All the gods bow down before him. 97:8 Zion hears and rejoices, the towns of Judah are happy, because of your judgments, O Lord. 97:9 For you, O Lord, are the sovereign king over the whole earth; you are elevated high above all gods. 97:10 You who love the Lord, hate evil! He protects the lives of his faithful followers; he delivers them from the power of the wicked. 97:11 The godly bask in the light; the morally upright experience joy. 97:12 You godly ones, rejoice in the Lord! Give thanks to his holy name. Psalm 98 98:1 A psalm. Sing to the Lord a new song, for he performs amazing deeds! His right hand and his mighty arm accomplish deliverance. 98:2 The Lord demonstrates his power to deliver; in the sight of the nations he reveals his justice. 98:3 He remains loyal and faithful to the family of Israel. All the ends of the earth see our God deliver us. 98:4 Shout out praises to the Lord, all the earth! Break out in a joyful shout and sing! 98:5 Sing to the Lord accompanied by a harp, accompanied by a harp and the sound of music! 98:6 With trumpets and the blaring of the ram's horn, shout out praises before the king, the Lord! 98:7 Let the sea and everything in it shout, along with the world and those who live in it! 98:8 Let the rivers clap their hands! Let the mountains sing in unison 98:9 before the Lord! For he comes to judge the earth! He judges the world fairly, and the nations in a just manner. Psalm 99 99:1 The Lord reigns! The nations tremble. He sits enthroned above the winged angels; the earth shakes. 99:2 The Lord is elevated in Zion; he is exalted over all the nations. 99:3 Let them praise your great and awesome name! He is holy! 99:4 The king is strong; he loves justice. You ensure that legal decisions will be made fairly; you promote justice and equity in Jacob. 99:5 Praise the Lord our God! Worship before his footstool! He is holy! 99:6 Moses and Aaron were among his priests; Samuel was one of those who prayed to him. They prayed to the Lord and he answered them. 99:7 He spoke to them from a pillar of cloud; they obeyed his regulations and the ordinance he gave them. 99:8 O Lord our God, you answered them. They found you to be a forgiving God, but also one who punished their sinful deeds. 99:9 Praise the Lord our God! Worship on his holy hill, for the Lord our God is holy! Psalm 100 100:1 A thanksgiving psalm. Shout out praises to the Lord, all the earth! 100:2 Worship the Lord with joy! Enter his presence with joyful singing! 100:3 Acknowledge that the Lord is God! He made us and we belong to him; we are his people, the sheep of his pasture. 100:4 Enter his gates with thanksgiving, and his courts with praise! Give him thanks! Praise his name! 100:5 For the Lord is good. His loyal love endures, and he is faithful through all generations. Psalm 101 101:1 A psalm of David. I will sing about loyalty and justice! To you, O Lord, I will sing praises! 101:2 I will walk in the way of integrity. When will you come to me? I will conduct my business with integrity in the midst of my palace. 101:3 I will not even consider doing what is dishonest. I hate doing evil; I will have no part of it. 101:4 I will have nothing to do with a perverse person; I will not permit evil. 101:5 I will destroy anyone who slanders his neighbor in secret. I will not tolerate anyone who has a cocky demeanor and an arrogant attitude. 101:6 I will favor the honest people of the land, and allow them to live with me. Those who walk in the way of integrity will attend me. 101:7 Deceitful people will not live in my palace. Liars will not be welcome in my presence. 101:8 Each morning I will destroy all the wicked people in the land, and remove all evildoers from the city of the Lord. Prayer Lord, when we praise You we discover Your wisdom, as it is impossible to recite the reasons to praise You without describing Your character and without You teaching us in that process. May I receive wisdom from You as I sing praises to You -- the One I long to know more and more every day. Commentary Psalm Ninety-Five was a praise-song which contained wisdom "For he is our God; we are the people of his pasture, the sheep he owns." The author was not identified. Psalm Ninety-Six was a praise-song which contained wisdom "Sing to the Lord a new song!" -- which flowed from the assertion that He "... comes to judge the earth! He judges the world fairly, and the nations in accordance with his justice." The author was not identified. Psalm Ninety-Seven was a praise-song which contained wisdom "The godly bask in the light; the morally upright experience joy. You godly ones, rejoice in the Lord! Give thanks to his holy name." The author was not identified. Psalm Ninety-Eight was a praise-song which returned to the introductory theme of Psalm Ninety-Six "Sing to the Lord a new song!" and contained additional wisdom "His right hand and his mighty arm accomplish deliverance." [The Net Translator's Notes observe that this referred to the unique power of the Lord God and, as with His justice, reflected His character.] The author was not identified. Psalm Ninety-Nine was a praise-song which contained wisdom "O Lord our God, you answered them. [Moses and Aaron ] They found you to be a forgiving God, but also one who punished their sinful deeds." The author was not identified. Psalm One-Hundred was a praise-song which contained wisdom "For the Lord is good. His loyal love endures, and he is faithful through all generations." The author was not identified. Psalm One-Hundred and One was a praise-song of David which contained wisdom "I will have nothing to do with a perverse person; I will not permit evil." Interaction Consider The common thread of this group of Psalms was humble praise and the discovery of wisdom in the process. Discuss Why might it have been so important to the Israelites to emphasize the certain and perfect judgment of all nations? Reflect David's declaration that he would not participate in nor tolerate evil must have been written early in his reign as the events that unfolded revealed that he eventually failed on both accounts. Share When have you struggled with injustice, or at least with what you perceived as your unequal circumstances, while others thrived and found some solace in the assurance that one day the Lord God would make all things right? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where you have committed to avoid sin, and to confront it when you saw it, yet you have a pattern of failing at one or the other. Action: Today I will confess and repent, request and receive the Lord's forgiveness, and move to break the sin-pattern that the Holy Spirit has revealed in my life. I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement and to hold me accountable in this area. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Psalms 102 - 104 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu May 12 02:20:47 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 02:20:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder In-Reply-To: <4DCB7455.7080403@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCB5023.6070400@lightlink.com> <4DCB7455.7080403@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DCB7C3F.5010207@lightlink.com> On 05/12/2011 01:47 AM, usacomputertech wrote: > It will help because skype customers are already overpaying for their > service and now Microsoft will collect that income. >From what I know, from users, the service isn't all that great. When I've been talking to someone who does have it, most often there's a lot of "break up" during the entire conversation. Vonage is a FAR better service to have, IMHO, and it doesn't usurp any of your 'puter processor cycles. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 12 01:47:01 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 22:47:01 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder In-Reply-To: <4DCB5023.6070400@lightlink.com> References: <4DCB5023.6070400@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DCB7455.7080403@mindblowingidea.com> It will help because skype customers are already overpaying for their service and now Microsoft will collect that income. On 05/11/2011 08:12 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder > > > Microsoft is buying Skype, the video and Voice over Internet Protocol > giant, for over seven billion in cash and this will help them how? > > READ FULL STORY > > > I'm bemused to see that Microsoft's Grand Poobah Steve Ballmer has > blundered yet again. This time, instead of Vista, the operating system > that never should have seem the light of day, or Windows Phone 7, the > far too little, too late, attempt to play in mobile devices, he's > wasted a cool $8.5-billion (Billion!) on Skype > . > > -- > "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it > tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 12 10:10:28 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 10:10:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder In-Reply-To: <4DCB7C3F.5010207@lightlink.com> References: <4DCB5023.6070400@lightlink.com> <4DCB7455.7080403@mindblowingidea.com> <4DCB7C3F.5010207@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DCBEA54.9090302@bibleseven.com> A quick Search on startpage.com reveals that there are several alternatives to Skype. I would anticipate a significant loss of the user-base with MS struggling to add new users to replace those lost. They may succeed but the alternatives to Skype will benefit from those who do not wish to deal with MS. Our teen son's first reaction was "Oh no, now what do we use?", followed by a search and several threads on several forums where they all agreed to find and use a different VoIP app. > On 05/12/2011 01:47 AM, usacomputertech wrote: > > It will help because skype customers are already overpaying for > > their service and now Microsoft will collect that income. > > From what I know, from users, the service isn't all that great. When > I've been talking to someone who does have it, most often there's a > lot of "break up" during the entire conversation. Vonage is a FAR > better service to have, IMHO, and it doesn't usurp any of your 'puter > processor cycles. > > Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making > it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From parrisdc at gmail.com Thu May 12 12:53:25 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 12:53:25 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Microsoft's Ballmer $7.7-Billion Skype Blunder In-Reply-To: <4DCBEA54.9090302@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCB5023.6070400@lightlink.com> <4DCB7455.7080403@mindblowingidea.com> <4DCB7C3F.5010207@lightlink.com> <4DCBEA54.9090302@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 10:10, dcolburn at bibleseven.com < dcolburn at bibleseven.com> wrote: > A quick Search on startpage.com reveals that there are several > alternatives to Skype. > > I would anticipate a significant loss of the user-base with MS > struggling to add new users to replace those lost. They may > succeed but the alternatives to Skype will benefit from those > who do not wish to deal with MS. > > Our teen son's first reaction was "Oh no, now what do we use?", > followed by a search and several threads on several forums where > they all agreed to find and use a different VoIP app. > > > Yeah, I started a thread on this the other day, with a link to alternatives. I'm currently playing with Ekiga, and have an Ekiga.net account (dcparris at ekiga.net). I've used Twinkle before, and there are a couple apps I'm not familiar with, but am trying out. We'll see how that works out. I'm currently having trouble getting Twinkle to register on Ekiga, not sure what the problem is. Twinkle doesn't do video, but Ekiga does. Twinkle is great for VOIP phone services, and you can use it for fairly advanced activities - almost like a switchboard - with Asterisk. Incidentally, I've had mostly excellent service with Skype - I frequently talk to a friend in Germany, and have done Skype sessions with her English class. It's not the same as a landline phone, but it does work very well. The audio/video quality effectively depends on Internet quality. My previous adventure with Ekiga and Twinkle produced similar results, so I don't foresee any real problems with a change. That said, you may have to do some tweaking with the libre apps than with Skype. -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 12 22:16:59 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 22:16:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Psalms 102 - 104 Message-ID: <4DCC949B.4070607@bibleseven.com> Friday Psalms 102 - 104 Psalm 102 102:1 The prayer of an oppressed man, as he grows faint and pours out his lament before the Lord. O Lord, hear my prayer! Pay attention to my cry for help! 102:2 Do not ignore me in my time of trouble! Listen to me! When I call out to you, quickly answer me! 102:3 For my days go up in smoke, and my bones are charred like a fireplace. 102:4 My heart is parched and withered like grass, for I am unable to eat food. 102:5 Because of the anxiety that makes me groan, my bones protrude from my skin. 102:6 I am like an owl in the wilderness; I am like a screech owl among the ruins. 102:7 I stay awake; I am like a solitary bird on a roof. 102:8 All day long my enemies taunt me; those who mock me use my name in their curses. 102:9 For I eat ashes as if they were bread, and mix my drink with my tears, 102:10 because of your anger and raging fury. Indeed, you pick me up and throw me away. 102:11 My days are coming to an end, and I am withered like grass. 102:12 But you, O Lord, rule forever, and your reputation endures. 102:13 You will rise up and have compassion on Zion. For it is time to have mercy on her, for the appointed time has come. 102:14 Indeed, your servants take delight in her stones, and feel compassion for the dust of her ruins. 102:15 The nations will respect the reputation of the Lord, and all the kings of the earth will respect his splendor, 102:16 when the Lord rebuilds Zion, and reveals his splendor, 102:17 when he responds to the prayer of the destitute, and does not reject their request. 102:18 The account of his intervention will be recorded for future generations; people yet to be born will praise the Lord. 102:19 For he will look down from his sanctuary above; from heaven the Lord will look toward earth, 102:20 in order to hear the painful cries of the prisoners, and to set free those condemned to die, 102:21 so they may proclaim the name of the Lord in Zion, and praise him in Jerusalem, 102:22 when the nations gather together, and the kingdoms pay tribute to the Lord. 102:23 He has taken away my strength in the middle of life; he has cut short my days. 102:24 I say, "O my God, please do not take me away in the middle of my life! You endure through all generations. 102:25 In earlier times you established the earth; the skies are your handiwork. 102:26 They will perish, but you will endure. They will wear out like a garment; like clothes you will remove them and they will disappear. 102:27 But you remain; your years do not come to an end. 102:28 The children of your servants will settle down here, and their descendants will live securely in your presence." Psalm 103 103:1 By David. Praise the Lord, O my soul! With all that is within me, praise his holy name! 103:2 Praise the Lord, O my soul! Do not forget all his kind deeds! 103:3 He is the one who forgives all your sins, who heals all your diseases, 103:4 who delivers your life from the Pit, who crowns you with his loyal love and compassion, 103:5 who satisfies your life with good things, so your youth is renewed like an eagle's. 103:6 The Lord does what is fair, and executes justice for all the oppressed. 103:7 The Lord revealed his faithful acts to Moses, his deeds to the Israelites. 103:8 The Lord is compassionate and merciful; he is patient and demonstrates great loyal love. 103:9 He does not always accuse, and does not stay angry. 103:10 He does not deal with us as our sins deserve; he does not repay us as our misdeeds deserve. 103:11 For as the skies are high above the earth, so his loyal love towers over his faithful followers. 103:12 As far as the eastern horizon is from the west, so he removes the guilt of our rebellious actions from us. 103:13 As a father has compassion on his children, so the Lord has compassion on his faithful followers. 103:14 For he knows what we are made of; he realizes we are made of clay. 103:15 A person's life is like grass. Like a flower in the field it flourishes, 103:16 but when the hot wind blows by, it disappears, and one can no longer even spot the place where it once grew. 103:17 But the Lord continually shows loyal love to his faithful followers, and is faithful to their descendants, 103:18 to those who keep his covenant, who are careful to obey his commands. 103:19 The Lord has established his throne in heaven; his kingdom extends over everything. 103:20 Praise the Lord, you angels of his, you powerful warriors who carry out his decrees and obey his orders! 103:21 Praise the Lord, all you warriors of his, you servants of his who carry out his desires! 103:22 Praise the Lord, all that he has made, in all the regions of his kingdom! Praise the Lord, O my soul! Psalm 104 104:1 Praise the Lord, O my soul! O Lord my God, you are magnificent. You are robed in splendor and majesty. 104:2 He covers himself with light as if it were a garment. He stretches out the skies like a tent curtain, 104:3 and lays the beams of the upper rooms of his palace on the rain clouds. He makes the clouds his chariot, and travels along on the wings of the wind. 104:4 He makes the winds his messengers, and the flaming fire his attendant. 104:5 He established the earth on its foundations; it will never be upended. 104:6 The watery deep covered it like a garment; the waters reached above the mountains. 104:7 Your shout made the waters retreat; at the sound of your thunderous voice they hurried off -- 104:8 as the mountains rose up, and the valleys went down -- to the place you appointed for them. 104:9 You set up a boundary for them that they could not cross, so that they would not cover the earth again. 104:10 He turns springs into streams; they flow between the mountains. 104:11 They provide water for all the animals in the field; the wild donkeys quench their thirst. 104:12 The birds of the sky live beside them; they chirp among the bushes. 104:13 He waters the mountains from the upper rooms of his palace; the earth is full of the fruit you cause to grow. 104:14 He provides grass for the cattle, and crops for people to cultivate, so they can produce food from the ground, 104:15 as well as wine that makes people feel so good, and so they can have oil to make their faces shine, as well as food that sustains people's lives. 104:16 The trees of the Lord receive all the rain they need, the cedars of Lebanon which he planted, 104:17 where the birds make nests, near the evergreens in which the herons live. 104:18 The wild goats live in the high mountains; the rock badgers find safety in the cliffs. 104:19 He made the moon to mark the months, and the sun sets according to a regular schedule. 104:20 You make it dark and night comes, during which all the beasts of the forest prowl around. 104:21 The lions roar for prey, seeking their food from God. 104:22 When the sun rises, they withdraw and sleep in their dens. 104:23 Men then go out to do their work, and labor away until evening. 104:24 How many living things you have made, O Lord! You have exhibited great skill in making all of them; the earth is full of the living things you have made. 104:25 Over here is the deep, wide sea, which teems with innumerable swimming creatures, living things both small and large. 104:26 The ships travel there, and over here swims the whale you made to play in it. 104:27 All of your creatures wait for you to provide them with food on a regular basis. 104:28 You give food to them and they receive it; you open your hand and they are filled with food. 104:29 When you ignore them, they panic. When you take away their life's breath, they die and return to dust. 104:30 When you send your life-giving breath, they are created, and you replenish the surface of the ground. 104:31 May the splendor of the Lord endure! May the Lord find pleasure in the living things he has made! 104:32 He looks down on the earth and it shakes; he touches the mountains and they start to smolder. 104:33 I will sing to the Lord as long as I live; I will sing praise to my God as long as I exist! 104:34 May my thoughts be pleasing to him! I will rejoice in the Lord. 104:35 May sinners disappear from the earth, and the wicked vanish! Praise the Lord, O my soul! Praise the Lord! Prayer Lord, Your power and creativity, mercy and provision are manifest in Your Creation -- even after the Fall. May I pause frequently to marvel at what You created and give praise and thanks. Commentary Psalm 102 is a prayer of petition which includes wisdom "You endure through all generations. In earlier times you established the earth; the skies are your handiwork. They will perish, but you will endure. They will wear out like a garment; like clothes you will remove them and they will disappear. But you remain; your years do not come to an end." The Psalmist is not identified and though it is similar to David's writing, the text "You will rise up and have compassion on Zion. For it is time to have mercy on her, for the appointed time has come. Indeed, your servants take delight in her stones, and feel compassion for the dust of her ruins." suggests that it may be much later - after Jerusalem has been destroyed. Psalm 103 is a praise-song of David which includes a great deal of wisdom: "Praise the Lord, O my soul! Do not forget all his kind deeds! He is the one who forgives all your sins, who heals all your diseases, who delivers your life from the Pit, who crowns you with his loyal love and compassion," and "He does not deal with us as our sins deserve; he does not repay us as our misdeeds deserve. For as the skies are high above the earth, so his loyal love towers over his faithful followers. As far as the eastern horizon is from the west, so he removes the guilt of our rebellious actions from us." and " For he knows what we are made of; he realizes we are made of clay." Psalm 104 is praise with wisdom "All of your creatures ... When you take away their life's breath, they die and return to dust. When you send your life-giving breath, they are created ..." The identity of the author was not included in the text. Interaction Consider The Psalmists agree that the Lord God is eternal and that His creation is temporary. Discuss Could it be that David's own struggles enabled him to communicate the wisdom that the Lord God understands that we are fragile "clay", that He understands our weakness and does not punish us as we deserve, He-alone can and does save us "from the pit", and He-alone removes our guilt from us? Reflect The gift of life is from the Lord God. Share When have you experienced or observed someone whose healing from a disease was clearly a miracle? Was the Lord God given credit and praise? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your life where the Lord God has granted mercy rather than than as your "misdeeds" deserved? Action: Today I will give grateful thanks and praise for the mercy of the Lord in my life and I will share that praise-report with a fellow believer as an encouragement. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Psalms 105 - 106 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri May 13 00:00:27 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 00:00:27 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Five Reasons why Google's Linux Chromebook is a Windows killer Message-ID: <4DCCACDB.3030706@lightlink.com> Five Reasons why Google's Linux Chromebook is a Windows killer After years, decades, of talking about Linux taking on Windows on the desktop, we finally have a serious contender with a serious backer, Google, behind it. READ FULL STORY -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Fri May 13 21:41:20 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 13 May 2011 21:41:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Psalms 105 - 106 Message-ID: <4DCDDDC0.3030907@bibleseven.com> Saturday Psalms 105 - 106 Psalm 105 105:1 Give thanks to the Lord! Call on his name! Make known his accomplishments among the nations! 105:2 Sing to him! Make music to him! Tell about all his miraculous deeds! 105:3 Boast about his holy name! Let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice! 105:4 Seek the Lord and the strength he gives! Seek his presence continually! 105:5 Recall the miraculous deeds he performed, his mighty acts and the judgments he decreed, 105:6 O children of Abraham, God's servant, you descendants of Jacob, God's chosen ones! 105:7 He is the Lord our God; he carries out judgment throughout the earth. 105:8 He always remembers his covenantal decree, the promise he made to a thousand generations -- 105:9 the promise he made to Abraham, the promise he made by oath to Isaac! 105:10 He gave it to Jacob as a decree, to Israel as a lasting promise, 105:11 saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan as the portion of your inheritance." 105:12 When they were few in number, just a very few, and resident aliens within it, 105:13 they wandered from nation to nation, and from one kingdom to another. 105:14 He let no one oppress them; he disciplined kings for their sake, 105:15 saying, "Don't touch my chosen ones! Don't harm my prophets!" 105:16 He called down a famine upon the earth; he cut off all the food supply. 105:17 He sent a man ahead of them -- Joseph was sold as a servant. 105:18 The shackles hurt his feet; his neck was placed in an iron collar, 105:19 until the time when his prediction came true. The Lord's word proved him right. 105:20 The king authorized his release; the ruler of nations set him free. 105:21 He put him in charge of his palace, and made him manager of all his property, 105:22 giving him authority to imprison his officials and to teach his advisers. 105:23 Israel moved to Egypt; Jacob lived for a time in the land of Ham. 105:24 The Lord made his people very fruitful, and made them more numerous than their enemies. 105:25 He caused them to hate his people, and to mistreat his servants. 105:26 He sent his servant Moses, and Aaron, whom he had chosen. 105:27 They executed his miraculous signs among them, and his amazing deeds in the land of Ham. 105:28 He made it dark; they did not disobey his orders. 105:29 He turned their water into blood, and killed their fish. 105:30 Their land was overrun by frogs, which even got into the rooms of their kings. 105:31 He ordered flies to come; gnats invaded their whole territory. 105:32 He sent hail along with the rain; there was lightning in their land. 105:33 He destroyed their vines and fig trees, and broke the trees throughout their territory. 105:34 He ordered locusts to come, innumerable grasshoppers. 105:35 They ate all the vegetation in their land, and devoured the crops of their fields. 105:36 He struck down all the firstborn in their land, the firstfruits of their reproductive power. 105:37 He brought his people out enriched with silver and gold; none of his tribes stumbled. 105:38 Egypt was happy when they left, for they were afraid of them. 105:39 He spread out a cloud for a cover, and provided a fire to light up the night. 105:40 They asked for food, and he sent quails; he satisfied them with food from the sky. 105:41 He opened up a rock and water flowed out; a river ran through dry regions. 105:42 Yes, he remembered the sacred promise he made to Abraham his servant. 105:43 When he led his people out, they rejoiced; his chosen ones shouted with joy. 105:44 He handed the territory of nations over to them, and they took possession of what other peoples had produced, 105:45 so that they might keep his commands and obey his laws. Praise the Lord! Psalm 106 106:1 Praise the Lord! Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, and his loyal love endures! 106:2 Who can adequately recount the Lord's mighty acts, or relate all his praiseworthy deeds? 106:3 How blessed are those who promote justice, and do what is right all the time! 106:4 Remember me, O Lord, when you show favor to your people! Pay attention to me, when you deliver, 106:5 so I may see the prosperity of your chosen ones, rejoice along with your nation, and boast along with the people who belong to you. 106:6 We have sinned like our ancestors; we have done wrong, we have done evil. 106:7 Our ancestors in Egypt failed to appreciate your miraculous deeds, they failed to remember your many acts of loyal love, and they rebelled at the sea, by the Red Sea. 106:8 Yet he delivered them for the sake of his reputation, that he might reveal his power. 106:9 He shouted at the Red Sea and it dried up; he led them through the deep water as if it were a desert. 106:10 He delivered them from the power of the one who hated them, and rescued them from the power of the enemy. 106:11 The water covered their enemies; not even one of them survived. 106:12 They believed his promises; they sang praises to him. 106:13 They quickly forgot what he had done; they did not wait for his instructions. 106:14 In the wilderness they had an insatiable craving for meat; they challenged God in the desert. 106:15 He granted their request, then struck them with a disease. 106:16 In the camp they resented Moses, and Aaron, the Lord's holy priest. 106:17 The earth opened up and swallowed Dathan; it engulfed the group led by Abiram. 106:18 Fire burned their group; the flames scorched the wicked. 106:19 They made an image of a calf at Horeb, and worshiped a metal idol. 106:20 They traded their majestic God for the image of an ox that eats grass. 106:21 They rejected the God who delivered them, the one who performed great deeds in Egypt, 106:22 amazing feats in the land of Ham, mighty acts by the Red Sea. 106:23 He threatened to destroy them, but Moses, his chosen one, interceded with him and turned back his destructive anger. 106:24 They rejected the fruitful land; they did not believe his promise. 106:25 They grumbled in their tents; they did not obey the Lord. 106:26 So he made a solemn vow that he would make them die in the desert, 106:27 make their descendants die among the nations, and scatter them among foreign lands. 106:28 They worshiped Baal of Peor, and ate sacrifices offered to the dead. 106:29 They made the Lord angry by their actions, and a plague broke out among them. 106:30 Phinehas took a stand and intervened, and the plague subsided. 106:31 This brought him a reward, an eternal gift. 106:32 They made him angry by the waters of Meribah, and Moses suffered because of them, 106:33 for they aroused his temper, and he spoke rashly. 106:34 They did not destroy the nations, as the Lord had commanded them to do. 106:35 They mixed in with the nations and learned their ways. 106:36 They worshiped their idols, which became a snare to them. 106:37 They sacrificed their sons and daughters to demons. 106:38 They shed innocent blood -- the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan. The land was polluted by bloodshed. 106:39 They were defiled by their deeds, and unfaithful in their actions. 106:40 So the Lord was angry with his people and despised the people who belong to him. 106:41 He handed them over to the nations, and those who hated them ruled over them. 106:42 Their enemies oppressed them; they were subject to their authority. 106:43 Many times he delivered them, but they had a rebellious attitude, and degraded themselves by their sin. 106:44 Yet he took notice of their distress, when he heard their cry for help. 106:45 He remembered his covenant with them, and relented because of his great loyal love. 106:46 He caused all their conquerors to have pity on them. 106:47 Deliver us, O Lord, our God! Gather us from among the nations! Then we will give thanks to your holy name, and boast about your praiseworthy deeds. 106:48 The Lord God of Israel deserves praise, in the future and forevermore. Let all the people say, "We agree! Praise the Lord!" Prayer Lord, You have been so very patient and Your mercy overflowing, but there is an end to that. May I not test the limits of Your patience in my life. Commentary Psalm 105 was for praise-leadership which included wisdom "Seek his presence continually!"; it called the people to remember God's faithfulness to Israel and to praise Him for that. [The NET translator's notes record that 1Chron16 contains similar text.] The author was not identified in the text. Psalm 106 was a prayer of praise which contained confession "We have sinned like our ancestors; we have done wrong, we have done evil.", petition "Remember me, O Lord, when you show favor to your people!", and wisdom "The Lord God of Israel deserves praise, in the future and forevermore." The text recorded the author's teaching that the Lord God deserved praise for His faithfulness, despite the ancient rebellion of Israel, and for His repeated rescues and restoration. This text describes the subjugation of Israel at the hands of foreign nations as God's chastising of Israel. The author was not identified in the text. Interaction Consider Israel tried the patience of the Lord God over and over again, in the desert, in the Promised Land, during the time of the Kings, and even after He allowed them to be dispersed from the Promised Land. Discuss After the long history of rebellion, the gift and loss of the Promised Land, and God's declaration that He was done with His relationship with the literal nation of Israel and moving to a new covenant, why would the author still believe that The Lord God would again "... show favor to your people ..." Reflect The Lord God of Israel deserves praise, in the future and forevermore ... Seek his presence continually!" Share When have you experience or observed that mercy and patience run out as the beneficiary refused to learn from failure and restoration? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your walk where you are refusing to learn from repeated failure and restoration. Action: Today I will confess and repent, request and receive the Lord God's forgiveness, and make intentional changes to break the pattern of failure in my walk before the Lord. I will partner with the Holy Spirit and the person or persons He shows me who will pray with me and encourage me and hold me accountable. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Psalms 107 - 109 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat May 14 00:08:20 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 00:08:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Kodak wins over Apple in patent infringement lawsuit Message-ID: <4DCE0034.4080004@lightlink.com> Kodak wins over Apple in patent infringement lawsuit Kodak has won another battle in its ongoing legal wars with Apple over digital camera patent infringements. READ FULL STORY -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 14 22:12:09 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:12:09 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Psalms 107 - 109 Message-ID: <4DCF3679.6020108@bibleseven.com> Sunday Psalms 107 - 109 Book 5 (Psalms 107-150) Psalm 107 107:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, and his loyal love endures! 107:2 Let those delivered by the Lord speak out, those whom he delivered from the power of the enemy, 107:3 and gathered from foreign lands, from east and west, from north and south. 107:4 They wandered through the wilderness on a desert road; they found no city in which to live. 107:5 They were hungry and thirsty; they fainted from exhaustion. 107:6 They cried out to the Lord in their distress; he delivered them from their troubles. 107:7 He led them on a level road, that they might find a city in which to live. 107:8 Let them give thanks to the Lord for his loyal love, and for the amazing things he has done for people! 107:9 For he has satisfied those who thirst, and those who hunger he has filled with food. 107:10 They sat in utter darkness, bound in painful iron chains, 107:11 because they had rebelled against God's commands, and rejected the instructions of the sovereign king. 107:12 So he used suffering to humble them; they stumbled and no one helped them up. 107:13 They cried out to the Lord in their distress; he delivered them from their troubles. 107:14 He brought them out of the utter darkness, and tore off their shackles. 107:15 Let them give thanks to the Lord for his loyal love, and for the amazing things he has done for people! 107:16 For he shattered the bronze gates, and hacked through the iron bars. 107:17 They acted like fools in their rebellious ways, and suffered because of their sins. 107:18 They lost their appetite for all food, and they drew near the gates of death. 107:19 They cried out to the Lord in their distress; he delivered them from their troubles. 107:20 He sent them an assuring word and healed them; he rescued them from the pits where they were trapped. 107:21 Let them give thanks to the Lord for his loyal love, and for the amazing things he has done for people! 107:22 Let them present thank offerings, and loudly proclaim what he has done! 107:23 Some traveled on the sea in ships, and carried cargo over the vast waters. 107:24 They witnessed the acts of the Lord, his amazing feats on the deep water. 107:25 He gave the order for a windstorm, and it stirred up the waves of the sea. 107:26 They reached up to the sky, then dropped into the depths. The sailors' strength left them because the danger was so great. 107:27 They swayed and staggered like a drunk, and all their skill proved ineffective. 107:28 They cried out to the Lord in their distress; he delivered them from their troubles. 107:29 He calmed the storm, and the waves grew silent. 107:30 The sailors rejoiced because the waves grew quiet, and he led them to the harbor they desired. 107:31 Let them give thanks to the Lord for his loyal love, and for the amazing things he has done for people! 107:32 Let them exalt him in the assembly of the people! Let them praise him in the place where the leaders preside! 107:33 He turned streams into a desert, springs of water into arid land, 107:34 and a fruitful land into a barren place, because of the sin of its inhabitants. 107:35 As for his people, he turned a desert into a pool of water, and a dry land into springs of water. 107:36 He allowed the hungry to settle there, and they established a city in which to live. 107:37 They cultivated fields, and planted vineyards, which yielded a harvest of fruit. 107:38 He blessed them so that they became very numerous. He would not allow their cattle to decrease in number. 107:39 As for their enemies, they decreased in number and were beaten down, because of painful distress and suffering. 107:40 He would pour contempt upon princes, and he made them wander in a wasteland with no road. 107:41 Yet he protected the needy from oppression, and cared for his families like a flock of sheep. 107:42 When the godly see this, they rejoice, and every sinner shuts his mouth. 107:43 Whoever is wise, let him take note of these things! Let them consider the Lord's acts of loyal love! Psalm 108 108:1 A song, a psalm of David. I am determined, O God! I will sing and praise you with my whole heart. 108:2 Awake, O stringed instrument and harp! I will wake up at dawn! 108:3 I will give you thanks before the nations, O Lord! I will sing praises to you before foreigners! 108:4 For your loyal love extends beyond the sky, and your faithfulness reaches the clouds. 108:5 Rise up above the sky, O God! May your splendor cover the whole earth! 108:6 Deliver by your power and answer me, so that the ones you love may be safe. 108:7 God has spoken in his sanctuary: "I will triumph! I will parcel out Shechem, the valley of Succoth I will measure off. 108:8 Gilead belongs to me, as does Manasseh! Ephraim is my helmet, Judah my royal scepter. 108:9 Moab is my wash basin. I will make Edom serve me. I will shout in triumph over Philistia." 108:10 Who will lead me into the fortified city? Who will bring me to Edom? 108:11 Have you not rejected us, O God? O God, you do not go into battle with our armies. 108:12 Give us help against the enemy, for any help men might offer is futile. 108:13 By God's power we will conquer; he will trample down our enemies. Psalm 109 109:1 For the music director, a psalm of David. O God whom I praise, do not ignore me! 109:2 For they say cruel and deceptive things to me; they lie to me. 109:3 They surround me and say hateful things; they attack me for no reason. 109:4 They repay my love with accusations, but I continue to pray. 109:5 They repay me evil for good, and hate for love. 109:6 Appoint an evil man to testify against him! May an accuser stand at his right side! 109:7 When he is judged, he will be found guilty! Then his prayer will be regarded as sinful. 109:8 May his days be few! May another take his job! 109:9 May his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow! 109:10 May his children roam around begging, asking for handouts as they leave their ruined home! 109:11 May the creditor seize all he owns! May strangers loot his property! 109:12 May no one show him kindness! May no one have compassion on his fatherless children! 109:13 May his descendants be cut off! May the memory of them be wiped out by the time the next generation arrives! 109:14 May his ancestors' sins be remembered by the Lord! May his mother's sin not be forgotten! 109:15 May the Lord be constantly aware of them, and cut off the memory of his children from the earth! 109:16 For he never bothered to show kindness; he harassed the oppressed and needy, and killed the disheartened. 109:17 He loved to curse others, so those curses have come upon him. He had no desire to bless anyone, so he has experienced no blessings. 109:18 He made cursing a way of life, so curses poured into his stomach like water and seeped into his bones like oil. 109:19 May a curse attach itself to him, like a garment one puts on, or a belt one wears continually! 109:20 May the Lord repay my accusers in this way, those who say evil things about me! 109:21 O sovereign Lord, intervene on my behalf for the sake of your reputation! Because your loyal love is good, deliver me! 109:22 For I am oppressed and needy, and my heart beats violently within me. 109:23 I am fading away like a shadow at the end of the day; I am shaken off like a locust. 109:24 I am so starved my knees shake; I have turned into skin and bones. 109:25 I am disdained by them. When they see me, they shake their heads. 109:26 Help me, O Lord my God! Because you are faithful to me, deliver me! 109:27 Then they will realize this is your work, and that you, Lord, have accomplished it. 109:28 They curse, but you will bless. When they attack, they will be humiliated, but your servant will rejoice. 109:29 My accusers will be covered with shame, and draped in humiliation as if it were a robe. 109:30 I will thank the Lord profusely, in the middle of a crowd I will praise him, 109:31 because he stands at the right hand of the needy, to deliver him from those who threaten his life. Prayer Lord, Your character is what the Psalmists cited over and over as the point of reference for hope and for understanding -- You never change. May I remember to trust in Your character and find my hope there. Commentary Psalm 107 was a praise and wisdom Psalm with a stream of petition. The author recounted God's punishment and rescue of Israel on more than one occasion. "They sat in utter darkness, bound in painful iron chains, because they had rebelled against God's commands, and rejected the instructions of the sovereign king." might be taken to refer to a time after the kings or could refer to a difficult time during the ebb and flow of the latter kings. There was an interesting reference to a somewhat parallel story to that of Jesus "He calmed the storm, and the waves grew silent." The author is not identified in the text. Psalm 108 was David's typical prayer of petition and praise. He praised the Lord God for all that He had done but petitioned Him to return and to lead their armies as they were troubled in battle for His absence. Psalm 109 was an imprecatory prayer of David that contained both petition and wisdom. David cited the many evils visited upon him by others, their curses and lies, and their persistent pursuit which had driven him to hunger and isolation. He pleaded with the Lord to visit their curses for him upon them and to rescue and restore him. Wisdom came in the form of the contrast between the actions of man and those of the Lord God "They curse, but you will bless." Interaction Consider A persistent theme of the Psalms is both God's justice and His mercy -- and the context of generations of consistency. Discuss Is there not an intentional divine-parallel in the Psalm 107 parallel story to that of Jesus "He calmed the storm, and the waves grew silent."? Reflect The parallels between David's times of fear and hunger and suffering and that of Israel are interesting. In some cases it was the wrong choices of one in power, Saul, rather than David's sin which caused bad things to happen to him, in other cases it was the repeated sin of Israel that brought them calamity. Share When have you struggled and found perspective in reading the Psalms? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a bigger-picture understanding of the Lord God's justice and mercy surrounding your circumstances. Action: Today I will read my Bible, spend time in prayerful reflection, and listen for the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I will receive His comfort and assurance that He is in control. I will also accept His perspective that I am His child and may not know until Heaven all of the answers to all of my 'why's', but that I may rest in His assurance that His justice and mercy are perfect. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Psalms 110 - 118 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat May 14 22:49:37 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 22:49:37 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? Message-ID: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> I just know that I'm going to get a few people all wound up with this one.....oh well! Fred Many pastors and modern prophecy writers teach that the Church will be raptured off the earth prior to a seven year tribulation. Where in the Bible is this found? Nowhere. Confused? Watch this edition of /Vantage Point/ for an honest look at the "rapture". http://americanvision.org/4477/rapture-fact-or-fiction/ -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 14 23:06:59 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 23:06:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DCF4353.6040505@bibleseven.com> Christians witness to non-Christians during the Tribulation, so it is impossible that they be raptured prior to the Trib. Mid-Trib, maybe, pre-Wrath, likely. Have a blessed day of worship! > I just know that I'm going to get a few people all wound up with this > one.....oh well! > > Fred > > Many pastors and modern prophecy writers teach that the Church will be > raptured off the earth prior to a seven year tribulation. Where in the > Bible is this found? Nowhere. Confused? Watch this edition of /Vantage > Point/ for an honest look at the ?rapture?. > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat May 14 23:25:24 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 23:25:24 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil Message-ID: <4DCF47A4.9060707@lightlink.com> Could Ahmadinejad be the Antichrist? Of course he could. Who couldn't? If Saddam could be nominated, Ahmadinejad could too. After all, Iran already had a nomination in the person of Khomeini, why not another nomination from the same nation? Whatever the Bible says about the antichrist and the antichrists, the clairvoyants and fortune-tellers in the church can easily make up a story why Ahmadinejad -- or anyone else, for that matter -- is the Antichrist. After all, Mussolini was surely the Antichrist, or Hitler, or Stalin, or Sam Donaldson of ABC News, or even Barney the Dinosaur (you haven't forgotten the dragon of Revelation 12, have you?). http://americanvision.org/4468/ahmadinejad-antichrist-and-the-problem-of-evil-2/ -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Sun May 15 01:07:56 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 00:07:56 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DCF4353.6040505@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF4353.6040505@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <917269BD-66AA-419C-BFEF-064DC293C2C6@ofb.biz> On May 14, 2011, at 10:06 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Christians witness to non-Christians during the Tribulation, > so it is impossible that they be raptured prior to the Trib. > > Mid-Trib, maybe, pre-Wrath, likely. Of course, if the millennium is a metaphor, its hard to have pre/post/mid/whatever rapture. :-P /me the post mil-ish amil guy ducks -Tim From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sat May 14 23:00:35 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sat, 14 May 2011 20:00:35 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> I agree that there will not be a rapture from my point of view. On 05/14/2011 07:49 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > I just know that I'm going to get a few people all wound up with this > one.....oh well! > > Fred > > Many pastors and modern prophecy writers teach that the Church will be > raptured off the earth prior to a seven year tribulation. Where in the > Bible is this found? Nowhere. Confused? Watch this edition of /Vantage > Point/ for an honest look at the "rapture". > > http://americanvision.org/4477/rapture-fact-or-fiction/ > -- > "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it > tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Sun May 15 09:59:57 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 07:59:57 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DCF47A4.9060707@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF47A4.9060707@lightlink.com> Message-ID: I thought it was settled that Bill Gates was the Antichrist? On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Could Ahmadinejad be the Antichrist? Of course he could.Who couldn?t? If Saddam could be nominated, Ahmadinejad could too. After > all, Iran already had a nomination in the person of Khomeini, why not > another nomination from the same nation? Whatever the Bible says about the > antichrist and the antichrists, the clairvoyants and fortune-tellers in the > church can easily make up a story why Ahmadinejad ? or anyone else, for that > matter ? is the Antichrist. After all, Mussolini was surely the Antichrist, > or Hitler, or Stalin, or Sam Donaldson of ABC News, or even Barney the > Dinosaur (you haven?t > forgotten the dragon of Revelation 12, have you?). > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kf6snj at lycos.com Sun May 15 10:46:48 2011 From: kf6snj at lycos.com (Christopher Rose) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 14:46:48 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> >From the "Augsburg Confession" of 1532 Confession: Article XVII: Of Christ's Return to Judgment. 1] Also they teach that at the Consummation of the World Christ will appear for judgment, and 2] will raise up all the dead; He will give to the godly and elect eternal life and everlasting joys, 3] but ungodly men and the devils He will condemn to be tormented without end. 4] They condemn the Anabaptists, who think that there will be an end to the punishments of condemned men and devils. 5] They condemn also others who are now spreading certain Jewish opinions, that before the resurrection of the dead the godly shall take possession of the kingdom of the world, the ungodly being everywhere suppressed. Confutation: To Article XVII. The confession of the seventeenth article is received, since from the Apostles' Creed and the Holy Scripture the entire Catholic Church knows that Christ will come at the last day to judge the quick and the dead. Therefore they justly condemn here the Anabaptists, who think there will be an end of punishments to condemned men and devils, and imagine certain Jewish kingdoms of the godly, before the resurrection of the dead, in this present world, the wicked being everywhere suppressed. Defense: Article XVII: Of Christ's Return to Judgment. The Seventeenth Article the adversaries receive without exception, in which we confess that at the consummation of the world Christ shall appear, and shall raise up all the dead, and shall give to the godly eternal life and, eternal joys, but shall condemn the ungodly to be punished with the devil without end. This predates the bulk majority of the rapture doctrines and has withstood the test of time in terms of Christian doctrine. The "rapture" is a product of twentieth century liberal theologians looking for a way to escape God's wrath, which we all justly deserve. The simple truth is that this primarily an American doctrine. The statistics I've heard say that most of the Christians throughout the world are amillenialists. I just happen to be one of them. Christopher Rose Harmonica Player Prince of Peace Lutheran Church Lakewood WA May 15, 2011 01:10:31 AM, usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com wrote: =========================================== I agree that there will not be a rapture from my point of view. On 05/14/2011 07:49 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: Fred Many pastors and modern prophecy writers teach that the Church will be raptured off the earth prior to a seven year tribulation. Where in the Bible is this found? Nowhere. Confused? Watch this edition of Vantage Point for an honest look at the ?rapture?. http://americanvision.org/4477/rapture-fact-or-fiction/ -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown _______________________________________________Linux4christians mailing listLinux4christians at thelinuxlink.nethttp://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- signature.htmlhttp://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 15 13:28:12 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:28:12 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> Message-ID: <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> My first ministry-mentor did not like getting tangled up in doctrinal debates so his take was "I am an O-Millenialist." and when pressed to explain he'd say "Oh well, whatever God decides to do is fine with me." ;-) > Christopher Rose wrote: > The statistics I've heard say that most of the Christians throughout > the world are amillenialists. I just happen to be one of them. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 15 13:30:02 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 13:30:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF47A4.9060707@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DD00D9A.1030308@bibleseven.com> My vote is for Barney, with Joe Biden as a second choice, and Lady Gaga a close third ... > Peter B. Steiger wrote: > I thought it was settled that Bill Gates was the Antichrist? > > On Sat, May 14, 2011 at 9:25 PM, Fred A. Miller > > wrote: > > Could Ahmadinejad be the Antichrist? Of course he could. > Who > couldn?t? If Saddam could be nominated, Ahmadinejad could too. After > all, Iran already had a nomination in the person of Khomeini, why not > another nomination from the same nation? Whatever the Bible says > about the antichrist and the antichrists, the clairvoyants and > fortune-tellers in the church can easily make up a story why > Ahmadinejad ? or anyone else, for that matter ? is the Antichrist. > After all, Mussolini was surely the Antichrist, or Hitler, or Stalin, > or Sam Donaldson of ABC News, or even Barney the Dinosaur > (you haven?t > forgotten the dragon of Revelation 12, have you?). -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From kf6snj at lycos.com Sun May 15 18:20:35 2011 From: kf6snj at lycos.com (Christopher Rose) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 22:20:35 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> The problem with an answer like that is that is dodges the issue. The same has been said of predestination. I have been through many debates regarding end time prophecy and predestination over the course of the last ten to fifteen years. Most of them end with me being told that if I don't believe as they do, then I am not a Christian. However, these are the things that Christians should discuss so that we may truly be one universal Christan church (the ancient texts say "catholic", but I know some get worked up over that term). If the whole of the Christian church can truly come together on a universal set of doctrinal statements regarding what we believe in all these arenas, then we will have the best set of evangelical tools ever. Thus our ever present and perpetual need for pastors, teachers, and theologians. Through study, discussion, and prayer we can give the church a single unified voice and body. However, it also means touching issues we find distasteful and would rather dodge, such as end time prophecy and predestination (oddly, these two doctrines are somewhat closely related, but that is a discourse for another time). Respectfully, Christopher L. Rose May 15, 2011 01:31:34 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: =========================================== My first ministry-mentor did not like getting tangled up in doctrinal debates so his take was "I am an O-Millenialist." and when pressed to explain he'd say "Oh well, whatever God decides to do is fine with me." ;-) > Christopher Rose wrote: > The statistics I've heard say that most of the Christians throughout > the world are amillenialists. I just happen to be one of them. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 15 18:56:08 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 18:56:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> Message-ID: <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> What you write would be good in a perfect world but we are far from that for sure. It is also technically non-Biblical. What I mean is that Jesus warned us to not invest time in debates about minor matters of doctrine as that distracts us from what is most-important - salvation. I have gone through the NT of the Bible line-by-line, and am working my way through the OT, and my reading is that there is no such teaching as predestination, the "rapture" is pre-wrath, Hell ceases with the new-Genesis of the eternal new-Heaven and new-Earth -- yet another person will study the very same text and come to an opposite conclusion. Resolving doctrinal matters like the rapture, predestination, etc. is not necessary to the core question of salvation. The history since Jesus ascended is that folks have invested more energy in disobedient debate about the minors than they have in intentional obedience to His Greatest Commission and His Greatest Commandment. Doctrinal unity will not happen prior to the return of Jesus, and He and the authors of the NT were aware of that and made allowances for disagreements to stand - but to not stand in the way of fellowship. I will say this, anyone who demands adherence to their pet doctrine on such matters is in rebellion against the Word of God and does not qualify as a Biblical "elder" and one should not permit oneself to be under their authority. A doctrinal 'preference' is not Biblical certititude nor is is a Biblical mandate -- Jesus reserved His harshest condemnation for leaders who imposed personal doctrine upon His truth -- and Paul spoke harshly of such leaders as well. > Christopher Rose wrote: > The problem with an answer like that is that is dodges the issue. The > same has been said of predestination. I have been through many > debates regarding end time prophecy and predestination over the > course of the last ten to fifteen years. Most of them end with me > being told that if I don't believe as they do, then I am not a > Christian. However, these are the things that Christians should > discuss so that we may truly be one universal Christan church (the > ancient texts say "catholic", but I know some get worked up over that > term). If the whole of the Christian church can truly come together > on a universal set of doctrinal statements regarding what we believe > in all these arenas, then we will have the best set of evangelical > tools ever. Thus our ever present and perpetual need for pastors, > teachers, and theologians. Through study, discussion, and prayer we > can give the church a single unified voice and body. However, it also > means touching issues we find distasteful and would rather dodge, > such as end time prophecy and predestination (oddly, these two > doctrines are somewhat closely related, but that is a discourse for > another time). > > Respectfully, > > Christopher L. Rose > > > > May 15, 2011 01:31:34 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > =========================================== > > My first ministry-mentor did not like getting tangled up in > doctrinal debates so his take was "I am an O-Millenialist." and when > pressed to explain he'd say "Oh well, whatever God decides to do is > fine with me." > > ;-) > > > Christopher Rose wrote: The statistics I've heard say that most of > > the Christians throughout the world are amillenialists. I just > > happen to be one of them. > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Sun May 15 22:40:53 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 22:40:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> On 05/15/2011 06:56 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > I will say this, anyone who demands adherence to their pet > doctrine on such matters is in rebellion against the Word of > God and does not qualify as a Biblical "elder" and one should > not permit oneself to be under their authority. Correct! Where I do have and will have a parting of the ways, is when any "church" refuses to take a Biblical stand on sin as defined in Scripture. An example of this is condoning same-sex relationships. Another is abortion. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 15 22:51:03 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 22:51:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> Perhaps the difference between "heresy" (violation of a religious doctrine/rule) and "apostate" (violation of Biblical principle/teaching)? > On 05/15/2011 06:56 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> I will say this, anyone who demands adherence to their pet >> doctrine on such matters is in rebellion against the Word of >> God and does not qualify as a Biblical "elder" and one should >> not permit oneself to be under their authority. > > Correct! Where I do have and will have a parting of the ways, is > when any "church" refuses to take a Biblical stand on sin as > defined in Scripture. An example of this is condoning same-sex > relationships. Another is abortion. > > Fred -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sun May 15 23:03:37 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 20:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I need some advice. I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and base everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the Bible. I'm trying to unlearn theology. Anyone got any resources? From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 15 23:11:45 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:11:45 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Psalms 110 - 118 Message-ID: <4DD095F1.3050406@bibleseven.com> Monday Psalms 110 - 118 Psalm 110 110:1 A psalm of David. Here is the Lord's proclamation to my lord: "Sit down at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool!" 110:2 The Lord extends your dominion from Zion. Rule in the midst of your enemies! 110:3 Your people willingly follow you when you go into battle. On the holy hills at sunrise the dew of your youth belongs to you. 110:4 The Lord makes this promise on oath and will not revoke it: "You are an eternal priest after the pattern of Melchizedek." 110:5 O sovereign Lord, at your right hand he strikes down kings in the day he unleashes his anger. 110:6 He executes judgment against the nations; he fills the valleys with corpses; he shatters their heads over the vast battlefield. 110:7 From the stream along the road he drinks; then he lifts up his head. Psalm 111 111:1 Praise the Lord! I will give thanks to the Lord with my whole heart, in the assembly of the godly and the congregation. 111:2 The Lord's deeds are great, eagerly awaited by all who desire them. 111:3 His work is majestic and glorious, and his faithfulness endures forever. 111:4 He does amazing things that will be remembered; the Lord is merciful and compassionate. 111:5 He gives food to his faithful followers; he always remembers his covenant. 111:6 He announced that he would do mighty deeds for his people, giving them a land that belonged to other nations. 111:7 His acts are characterized by faithfulness and justice; all his precepts are reliable. 111:8 They are forever firm, and should be faithfully and properly carried out. 111:9 He delivered his people; he ordained that his covenant be observed forever. His name is holy and awesome. 111:10 To obey the Lord is the fundamental principle for wise living; all who carry out his precepts acquire good moral insight. He will receive praise forever. Psalm 112 112:1 Praise the Lord! How blessed is the one who obeys the Lord, who takes great delight in keeping his commands. 112:2 His descendants will be powerful on the earth; the godly will be blessed. 112:3 His house contains wealth and riches; his integrity endures. 112:4 In the darkness a light shines for the godly, for each one who is merciful, compassionate, and just. 112:5 It goes well for the one who generously lends money, and conducts his business honestly. 112:6 For he will never be upended; others will always remember one who is just. 112:7 He does not fear bad news. He is confident; he trusts in the Lord. 112:8 His resolve is firm; he will not succumb to fear before he looks in triumph on his enemies. 112:9 He generously gives to the needy; his integrity endures. He will be vindicated and honored. 112:10 When the wicked see this, they will worry; they will grind their teeth in frustration and melt away; the desire of the wicked will perish. Psalm 113 113:1 Praise the Lord! Praise, you servants of the Lord, praise the name of the Lord! 113:2 May the Lord's name be praised now and forevermore! 113:3 From east to west the Lord's name is deserving of praise. 113:4 The Lord is exalted over all the nations; his splendor reaches beyond the sky. 113:5 Who can compare to the Lord our God, who sits on a high throne? 113:6 He bends down to look at the sky and the earth. 113:7 He raises the poor from the dirt, and lifts up the needy from the garbage pile, 113:8 that he might seat him with princes, with the princes of his people. 113:9 He makes the barren woman of the family a happy mother of children. Praise the Lord! Psalm 114 114:1 When Israel left Egypt, when the family of Jacob left a foreign nation behind, 114:2 Judah became his sanctuary, Israel his kingdom. 114:3 The sea looked and fled; the Jordan River turned back. 114:4 The mountains skipped like rams, the hills like lambs. 114:5 Why do you flee, O sea? Why do you turn back, O Jordan River? 114:6 Why do you skip like rams, O mountains, like lambs, O hills? 114:7 Tremble, O earth, before the Lord -- before the God of Jacob, 114:8 who turned a rock into a pool of water, a hard rock into springs of water! Psalm 115 115:1 Not to us, O Lord, not to us! But to your name bring honor, for the sake of your loyal love and faithfulness. 115:2 Why should the nations say, "Where is their God?" 115:3 Our God is in heaven! He does whatever he pleases! 115:4 Their idols are made of silver and gold -- they are man-made. 115:5 They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see, 115:6 ears, but cannot hear, noses, but cannot smell, 115:7 hands, but cannot touch, feet, but cannot walk. They cannot even clear their throats. 115:8 Those who make them will end up like them, as will everyone who trusts in them. 115:9 O Israel, trust in the Lord! He is their deliverer and protector. 115:10 O family of Aaron, trust in the Lord! He is their deliverer and protector. 115:11 You loyal followers of the Lord, trust in the Lord! He is their deliverer and protector. 115:12 The Lord takes notice of us, he will bless -- he will bless the family of Israel, he will bless the family of Aaron. 115:13 He will bless his loyal followers, both young and old. 115:14 May he increase your numbers, yours and your children's! 115:15 May you be blessed by the Lord, the creator of heaven and earth! 115:16 The heavens belong to the Lord, but the earth he has given to mankind. 115:17 The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any of those who descend into the silence of death. 115:18 But we will praise the Lord now and forevermore. Praise the Lord! Psalm 116 116:1 I love the Lord because he heard my plea for mercy, 116:2 and listened to me. As long as I live, I will call to him when I need help. 116:3 The ropes of death tightened around me, the snares of Sheol confronted me. I was confronted with trouble and sorrow. 116:4 I called on the name of the Lord, "Please Lord, rescue my life!" 116:5 The Lord is merciful and fair; our God is compassionate. 116:6 The Lord protects the untrained; I was in serious trouble and he delivered me. 116:7 Rest once more, my soul, for the Lord has vindicated you. 116:8 Yes, Lord, you rescued my life from death, and kept my feet from stumbling. 116:9 I will serve the Lord in the land of the living. 116:10 I had faith when I said, "I am severely oppressed." 116:11 I rashly declared, "All men are liars." 116:12 How can I repay the Lord for all his acts of kindness to me? 116:13 I will celebrate my deliverance, and call on the name of the Lord. 116:14 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord before all his people. 116:15 The Lord values the lives of his faithful followers. 116:16 Yes, Lord! I am indeed your servant; I am your lowest slave. You saved me from death. 116:17 I will present a thank offering to you, and call on the name of the Lord. 116:18 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord before all his people, 116:19 in the courts of the Lord's temple, in your midst, O Jerusalem. Praise the Lord! Psalm 117 117:1 Praise the Lord, all you nations! Applaud him, all you foreigners! 117:2 For his loyal love towers over us, and the Lord's faithfulness endures. Praise the Lord! Psalm 118 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good and his loyal love endures! 118:2 Let Israel say, "Yes, his loyal love endures!" 118:3 Let the family of Aaron say, "Yes, his loyal love endures!" 118:4 Let the loyal followers of the Lord say, "Yes, his loyal love endures!" 118:5 In my distress I cried out to the Lord. The Lord answered me and put me in a wide open place. 118:6 The Lord is on my side, I am not afraid! What can people do to me? 118:7 The Lord is on my side as my helper. I look in triumph on those who hate me. 118:8 It is better to take shelter in the Lord than to trust in people. 118:9 It is better to take shelter in the Lord than to trust in princes. 118:10 All the nations surrounded me. Indeed, in the name of the Lord I pushed them away. 118:11 They surrounded me, yes, they surrounded me. Indeed, in the name of the Lord I pushed them away. 118:12 They surrounded me like bees. But they disappeared as quickly as a fire among thorns. Indeed, in the name of the Lord I pushed them away. 118:13 "You aggressively attacked me and tried to knock me down, but the Lord helped me. 118:14 The Lord gives me strength and protects me; he has become my deliverer." 118:15 They celebrate deliverance in the tents of the godly. The Lord's right hand conquers, 118:16 the Lord's right hand gives victory, the Lord's right hand conquers. 118:17 I will not die, but live, and I will proclaim what the Lord has done. 118:18 The Lord severely punished me, but he did not hand me over to death. 118:19 Open for me the gates of the just king's temple! I will enter through them and give thanks to the Lord. 118:20 This is the Lord's gate -- the godly enter through it. 118:21 I will give you thanks, for you answered me, and have become my deliverer. 118:22 The stone which the builders discarded has become the cornerstone. 118:23 This is the Lord's work. We consider it amazing! 118:24 This is the day the Lord has brought about. We will be happy and rejoice in it. 118:25 Please Lord, deliver! Please Lord, grant us success! 118:26 May the one who comes in the name of the Lord be blessed! We will pronounce blessings on you in the Lord's temple. 118:27 The Lord is God and he has delivered us. Tie the offering with ropes to the horns of the altar! 118:28 You are my God and I will give you thanks! You are my God and I will praise you! 118:29 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good and his loyal love endures! Prayer Lord, You never change, Your character and characteristics are not subject to the things of Your creation -- people or place or time. May I find confidence in Your unchanging perfection. Commentary Psalm 110 was a prophetic prayer of David. From the NET Translator's Notes: "In the psalm's original context the speaker is an unidentified prophetic voice in the royal court. In the course of time the psalm is applied to each successive king in the dynasty and ultimately to the ideal Davidic king. NT references to the psalm understand David to be speaking about his "lord," the Messiah. (See Matt 22:43-45; Mark 12:36-37; Luke 20:42-44; Acts 2:34-35)." Psalm 111 was praise with an interesting teaching method and wisdom -- the author lists the characteristics of the Lord God for which His people are to give Him praise and then concluded with "To obey the Lord is the fundamental principle for wise living; all who carry out his precepts acquire good moral insight. He will receive praise forever." From the NET Translator's Notes: "The psalmist praises God for his marvelous deeds, especially the way in which he provides for and delivers his people. The psalm is an acrostic. After the introductory call to praise, every poetic line (twenty-two in all) begins with a successive letter of the Hebrew alphabet." The author was not identified in the text. Psalms 112 - 117 continued the praise theme, based upon the characteristics and deeds of the Lord God, begun in Psalm 111. The author(s) are not identified in the text. Psalm 118 also continued the praise theme and added the prophetic phrase "The stone which the builders discarded has become the cornerstone." which was later applied to Jesus. The author was not identified in the text. Interaction Consider The references to Jesus, the Messiah, in the Psalms become an element of the argument against the religious leaders of the time of Jesus as they should have recognized Him from the prophetic descriptions -- in the Psalms and elsewhere in the OT. Discuss Given the obvious-to-us description of Jesus in the OT prophetic texts why would the religious leaders have failed to recognize Jesus? Reflect Psalm 110 demonstrated why the demand of Israel for a human king "... like the nations around us" [paraphrase] was the certain failure that the Lord God warned -- only the perfect King, the Messiah Jesus, could meet all of the expectations. Share When have you used an acrostic to remember something important? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal you a place in your walk where you would benefit from a greater knowledge of the character and characteristics of the Lord God. Action: Today I will begin a week of reading Psalms 111 -- 118, one each day -- more than once each day -- so that the character and characteristics of the Lord God are more deeply written upon my heart. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Psalms 119 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 15 23:17:27 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:17:27 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> Please define "unlearn theology". You mean to unlearn the incorrect theologies of humankind? The Bible has a "theology", the goal is to discern it, learn it, and burn it into your heart so that you live it - and not the incorrect theologies of men (and women). ;-) Where, within the theoretical 'community' of non-theology would you find accountability, fellowship, and teaching? Who would be the Biblically-require "elders"? The hard thing, which Paul and Peter and other Biblical authors recognized - and for which the Lord God gives grace - is that anything involving fallen humans is doomed to imperfection. > USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > I need some advice. > > > I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and > base everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the > Bible. I'm trying to unlearn theology. > > Anyone got any resources? -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Sun May 15 23:37:59 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sun, 15 May 2011 23:37:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD09C17.3010806@lightlink.com> On 05/15/2011 10:51 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Perhaps the difference between "heresy" (violation of a religious > doctrine/rule) and "apostate" (violation of Biblical principle/teaching)? > >> On 05/15/2011 06:56 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >>> I will say this, anyone who demands adherence to their pet >>> doctrine on such matters is in rebellion against the Word of >>> God and does not qualify as a Biblical "elder" and one should >>> not permit oneself to be under their authority. >> >> Correct! Where I do have and will have a parting of the ways, is >> when any "church" refuses to take a Biblical stand on sin as >> defined in Scripture. An example of this is condoning same-sex >> relationships. Another is abortion. Correct. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorkon at gmail.com Mon May 16 00:53:39 2011 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 00:53:39 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: Yes. I agree with you David. I think he means avoiding dogmatic practices of the denominations like the Catholic church, Methodism, Wesleyan and more. The problem with this is that other than nits....some bigger than others...most of the denominations are the same when you really look at it. For example, some denominations believe in baptizing babies and others don't baptize until they are old enough to make a declaration of their faith. Some support full immersion baptism and others sprinkle water (Bible depicts full water). Some read scriptures at the same time and have certain practices and some don't. All of those specifics aren't necessarily in the Bible but are dogma set forth by the denomination. The sad part of all of this is that the differences are mostly minor. Sometimes though they are not minor because they are not biblical. For example, find me the scripture that says we baptize babies?? Is baptizing babies wrong? Possibly...but you won't find me chastising someone because that is what they believe. The problem some denominations forget is that Christ is the center and that the most important thing is a relationship with him....not the dogma and religion that is created by it. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:17 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Please define "unlearn theology". > > You mean to unlearn the incorrect theologies of humankind? > > The Bible has a "theology", the goal is to discern it, learn it, > and burn it into your heart so that you live it - and not the > incorrect theologies of men (and women). ?;-) > > Where, within the theoretical 'community' of non-theology > would you find accountability, fellowship, and teaching? > > Who would be the Biblically-require "elders"? > > The hard thing, which Paul and Peter and other Biblical > authors recognized - and for which the Lord God gives > grace - is that anything involving fallen humans is doomed > to imperfection. > >> USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: >> >> ?I need some advice. >> >> >> ?I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and >> ?base everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the >> ?Bible. I'm trying to unlearn theology. >> >> ?Anyone got any resources? > > -- > > Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! > David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 > Defend free speech or lose your freedom. > I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 02:34:28 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 01:34:28 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> Message-ID: On May 15, 2011, at 5:20 PM, Christopher Rose wrote: > If the whole of the Christian church can truly come together on a universal set of doctrinal statements regarding what we believe in all these arenas, then we will have the best set of evangelical tools ever. Thus our ever present and perpetual need for pastors, teachers, and theologians. Through study, discussion, and prayer we can give the church a single unified voice and body. However, it also means touching issues we find distasteful and would rather dodge, such as end time prophecy and predestination (oddly, these two doctrines are somewhat closely related, but that is a discourse for another time). I think part of the problem is that we get our pet words and phrases we don't want to give up, even when we agree. The more I study, the more convinced I am that "your guy" Luther and "my guy" Calvin really did agree on all the major points. And, in a modern world where they could easily communicate all the time, I bet the remaining differences would have been hammered out. That's why "my other guy," Martin Bucer, could agree with both of them, most of the time. It's also why Calvin could sign the Augsburg Confession. That said, I'm not sure understanding the end times is that important. It does influence our viewpoint on the present period of time, but I rather like an answer like the one David mentioned. One of my seminary profs used a similar response: "All millennial: it all works out in the end." I'm amillennial, but not dogmatically so. As I've recovered from my dispensationalist background, I've realized there is a lot more important things to worry about. The good news is Christ lives, the Church proclaims his Kingdom by the power of his Spirit and Christ will return. In the PCA, we ordain teaching and ruling elders who are amillennial, postmillennial or historic premillennial (not dispensational) -- as far as I know there has been virtually no disunity caused by this flexible position on eschatology. (Incidentally, I disagree that dispensationalism is a liberal doctrine. Every place I've encountered it, it is (ironically) incredibly legalistic and usually fundamentalist.) -Tim From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 02:38:04 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 01:38:04 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1465721A-C878-481C-AA5D-2B5BC12773D9@ofb.biz> On May 15, 2011, at 10:03 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and base > everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the Bible. > I'm trying to unlearn theology. I'm not sure you can (or should) unlearn theology. Properly, theology is the study of God. While we can have bad theology that leads us away from Scripture, what you want is good theology (e.g. theology that is a proper application of Scripture), not "no theology." If you want a book that derives theology by directly walking through the Biblical storyline, I really love the book "Far as the Curse is Found." I'm teaching from it right now for a Sunday school class and I like it because it is extremely accessible (unlike a lot of theological works) and yet not particularly shallow. It is not theology-less; I just find that its theology seems very faithful to the text of Scripture. That's the beauty of so-called "Biblical theology." -Tim From karl at kleinpaste.org Mon May 16 07:51:28 2011 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 07:51:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> (dcolburn@bibleseven.com's message of "Sun, 15 May 2011 22:51:03 -0400") References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" writes: > Perhaps the difference between "heresy" (violation of a religious > doctrine/rule) and "apostate" (violation of Biblical principle/teaching)? I think we should be careful in use of terms. Properly, to be "apostate" is to have abandoned one's faith /en toto/. One can fail in some particular principle(s) without walking away from the faith completely. This is not to disagree with the general idea that points of pet theology (I have a few; I suspect all do) do not define the faith itself. From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 16 10:18:44 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 08:18:44 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Others have given some sound advice -- what you're trying to unlearn is "religion", not theology. Jesus said "No man comes to the Father except by me", and that all of God's law can be condensed into "Love the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor". Everything else is legalism. If you can (1) accept Christ as your Savior, (B) love God with all your heart and (5) love your neighbor as you love yourself, the little things will take care of themselves. That also eliminates some behavior that a lot of people who call themselves Christians like to indulge in -- gossip ("it's not gossip as long as you bring it up as a prayer request"), condemnation of the way another person does things, etc. Emo Philips had some great insight on the subject, as always: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2y_kI_-x1Q Shalom, *PBS* On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE < usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com> wrote: > I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and base > everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the Bible. > I'm trying to unlearn theology. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 10:34:07 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:34:07 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On May 16, 2011, at 6:51 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" writes: >> Perhaps the difference between "heresy" (violation of a religious >> doctrine/rule) and "apostate" (violation of Biblical principle/teaching)? > > I think we should be careful in use of terms. Properly, to be > "apostate" is to have abandoned one's faith /en toto/. One can fail in > some particular principle(s) without walking away from the faith > completely. Indeed. I think the easy distinction between the two is that someone could be a heretic without ever believing anything even resembling the orthodox Christian faith (it is a "damnable theological error," for example, Arianism). An apostate has left the faith (at least that is the external appearance). Tim From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon May 16 10:49:32 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 10:49:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD1397C.30101@lightlink.com> On 05/16/2011 10:18 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Others have given some sound advice -- what you're trying to unlearn > is "religion", not theology. Jesus said "No man comes to the Father > except by me", and that all of God's law can be condensed into "Love > the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor". > > Everything else is legalism. If you can (1) accept Christ as your > Savior, (B) love God with all your heart and (5) love your neighbor as > you love yourself, the little things will take care of themselves. > That also eliminates some behavior that a lot of people who call > themselves Christians like to indulge in -- gossip ("it's not gossip > as long as you bring it up as a prayer request"), condemnation of the > way another person does things, etc. Certainly true, but not quite complete. Sin is sin, and ISN'T to be condoned, no matter who commits it. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 16 11:25:50 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 09:25:50 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD1397C.30101@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1397C.30101@lightlink.com> Message-ID: Right, and sin is going to either prevent you from fully loving God or from loving your neighbor (loving your neighbor's wife doesn't count! Adultery leaves a long trail of victims as evidence that you do not love your neighbor). But gossip about perceived sin in someone else's life, or angrily waving signs and shouting that you hope they burn in hell, is not the Christlike way to address sin either. Look at it this way: Suppose you have a brother whom you love like life itself. You've grown up together, shared everything, maybe he led you to Christ, you've bailed each other out of tough situations more than you can count. You would literally lay down your life for this brother. Then one day he admits to you that he discovered long ago he was gay, and now he's coming out in the open and marrying another man. Would you stop loving him? Would you shout curses at him and tell him you can't wait for him to rot in hell? I hope the answer is no; you would help him deal with his sin just as you have both helped each other with great love all your lives. Even if he at first refuses to agree that it is a sin; even if it takes years. How long should God give us before He says "That's it, you're unrepentant. I will have nothing further to do with you." THAT is how we should be dealing with sin in others. I'm not saying we should condone sin; I'm saying our response to it does not follow Christ's example. He reserved his greatest anger not for the prostitutes and thieves, but for those who claimed to be holy while their actions contradicted their claims -- the moneylenders in the temple, the pious ones who would make a great show of giving to the church, etc. Shalom, *PBS* On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 8:49 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 05/16/2011 10:18 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > > Others have given some sound advice -- what you're trying to unlearn is > "religion", not theology. Jesus said "No man comes to the Father except by > me", and that all of God's law can be condensed into "Love the Lord your > God" and "Love your neighbor". > > Everything else is legalism. If you can (1) accept Christ as your Savior, > (B) love God with all your heart and (5) love your neighbor as you love > yourself, the little things will take care of themselves. That also > eliminates some behavior that a lot of people who call themselves Christians > like to indulge in -- gossip ("it's not gossip as long as you bring it up as > a prayer request"), condemnation of the way another person does things, > etc. > > > Certainly true, but not quite complete. Sin is sin, and ISN'T to be > condoned, no matter who commits it. > > Fred > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 14:10:45 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:10:45 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD168A5.6050503@mindblowingidea.com> To me Theology is man's interpretation of the Bible and what the Spirit says to us. I believe Theology is a theory about the truth. The Truth is God's word in the Bible. There are scriptures that are straight forward in any translation and therefore don't have room to be misinterpreted and this I see as undesputable absolute truth. Of course I've seen pastors and Church goers try to skirt past scriptures and pretend they don't mean what they say and that bugs me. I realise most of what I've been taught has been based on an incomplete truth or truth that isn't fully accepted. I don't believe Christianity is a theology, religion, doctrine, or denomination. I believe Christianity is a relationship with God, receiving from the Holy Spirit, and reading the 66 books of the Bible. I believe that is true knowledge. On 05/15/2011 08:17 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Please define "unlearn theology". > > You mean to unlearn the incorrect theologies of humankind? > > The Bible has a "theology", the goal is to discern it, learn it, > and burn it into your heart so that you live it - and not the > incorrect theologies of men (and women). ;-) > > Where, within the theoretical 'community' of non-theology > would you find accountability, fellowship, and teaching? > > Who would be the Biblically-require "elders"? > > The hard thing, which Paul and Peter and other Biblical > authors recognized - and for which the Lord God gives > grace - is that anything involving fallen humans is doomed > to imperfection. > > > USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: >> I need some advice. >> >> >> I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and >> base everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the >> Bible. I'm trying to unlearn theology. >> >> Anyone got any resources? > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 14:21:59 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 13:21:59 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1397C.30101@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <723ED8F6-B414-4E5D-A470-E9EFB187F76D@ofb.biz> On May 16, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > THAT is how we should be dealing with sin in others. I'm not saying we should condone sin; I'm saying our response to it does not follow Christ's example. He reserved his greatest anger not for the prostitutes and thieves, but for those who claimed to be holy while their actions contradicted their claims -- the moneylenders in the temple, the pious ones who would make a great show of giving to the church, etc. Amen. It is interesting -- I really think most Christians would reject Jesus today based on whom he spent his time with (and whom he focused his condemnations on)... just like the Pharisees of yesteryear. -Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 14:24:46 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 13:24:46 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD168A5.6050503@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com><4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19><4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD168A5.6050503@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <712D6F6D-3CD5-4E1E-8055-30B18AFA7B79@ofb.biz> On May 16, 2011, at 1:10 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > To me Theology is man's interpretation of the Bible and what the Spirit says to us. I believe Theology is a theory about the truth. The Truth is God's word in the Bible. There are scriptures that are straight forward in any translation and therefore don't have room to be misinterpreted and this I see as undesputable absolute truth. Of course I've seen pastors and Church goers try to skirt past scriptures and pretend they don't mean what they say and that bugs me. I realise most of what I've been taught has been based on an incomplete truth or truth that isn't fully accepted. I don't believe Christianity is a theology, religion, doctrine, or denomination. I believe Christianity is a relationship with God, receiving from the Holy Spirit, and reading the 66 books of the Bible. I believe that is true knowledge. Well, it depends how you define the terms. In the generally accepted usage of the word theology, what you've just written is theology. Theology can be true knowledge. Saying God is three persons in one God is theology. Saying Jesus died for your sins is theology. As Anselm said, theology is "faith seeking understanding." If you are seeking to understand the ways Scripture commands us, then you cannot avoid theology. -Tim From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 14:34:34 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:34:34 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> Um. Here is my understanding. Religion is a set of actions related to a belief such as going to Church, worshipping, praying, watching football every Sunday, ect. Theology from what I understand is simply Man's interpretation of Jesus' truth in the Bible. Man's interpretations are flawed. Just like a tape that is recorded off another tape, off another tape, off another tape, theology corrupts the Church. Theologians come up with a denomination. Theologians base what they say off the Bible and what they think is true. Pastors go to seminaries and are taught by people who studied a denomination's theology. Because the theology is difficult to understand each denomination has different sub groups called synods (for the Lutherans), the Methodist Church, Free Methodists, and United Methodist Church (for an example) and so a Pastor studies and is taught by a teacher who studied theology. The Pastor then comes up with his own personal beliefs but those must fit in with the theology his or her denomination was based on or else they can't represent that denomination. Then the people in the Church listen to the great pastor and learn his beliefs. Often times people don't go directly to God and the Bible. This causes confusion between believers and arguments that lead to division. The only cure is to be united as one body in the Spirit. If not it's Church against Church, family against family, nation against nation. Hope that helps. On 05/16/2011 07:18 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Others have given some sound advice -- what you're trying to unlearn > is "religion", not theology. Jesus said "No man comes to the Father > except by me", and that all of God's law can be condensed into "Love > the Lord your God" and "Love your neighbor". > > Everything else is legalism. If you can (1) accept Christ as your > Savior, (B) love God with all your heart and (5) love your neighbor as > you love yourself, the little things will take care of themselves. > That also eliminates some behavior that a lot of people who call > themselves Christians like to indulge in -- gossip ("it's not gossip > as long as you bring it up as a prayer request"), condemnation of the > way another person does things, etc. > > Emo Philips had some great insight on the subject, as always: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2y_kI_-x1Q > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 9:03 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE > > wrote: > > I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and > base > everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the Bible. > I'm trying to unlearn theology. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 15:08:55 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 14:08:55 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: On May 16, 2011, at 1:34 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > Then the people in the Church listen to the great pastor and learn his beliefs. Often times people don't go directly to God and the Bible. This causes confusion between believers and arguments that lead to division. I think that's an oversimplification, but it does happen. A good pastor points people to Scripture and encourages them to read it and test what he is saying (think of the Bereans, Acts 17). However, the process of telling people to read Scripture because it is useful for teaching, etc. (2 Tim. 3.16) is within what we call "theology." It is affirming the theological truth that Scripture is the authority for faith and life. As I mentioned in my response to your private message, the definition for theology is "the study of the nature of God and religious belief." So, Christians who avoid theology are -- necessarily, by the definition of the word -- avoiding studying the nature of God. The idea that Christianity is not a religion is really a cliche. It sounds good and it affirms something true: Christianity is about a relationship with our Lord and Savior. Nevertheless, if we define a religion as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power" (or something like that), Christianity is a religion. It just happens to be the TRUE religion. Here, I'll break it down: "the belief in" == "Whosoever believes in him" (Jn 3.16) "And worship" == "all the families of the nations shall worship before you" (Ps. 22.27) "of a superhuman controlling power" == "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8.29) The reason people reject the terms theology and religion relates to the negatives associated with them. It is OK if you don't like using the terms, but the terms themselves are neutral terms that happen to describe what we are and do as the Church. To say Christianity is not a religion or does not involve theology requires redefining what those words mean. -Tim From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 14:20:32 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 11:20:32 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> I think in many ways each man / theology / denomination has a piece of the puzzle that others don't have because of their perspective but the problem is they are limited to what others think by their theology / denomination and what is acceptable. Personally I don't believe having denominations is a good idea. What denomination was Jesus? I think Wesley probably had a lot of good insight as did Luther. I am well aware of the baptism dispute. I myself am caught in the crossfire on that one. I was baptised as a baby and received salvation later and after that received the Holy Spirit. I know my baptisum and dedication was acceptable to the Lord because when I pray for the sick they are healed, I am not affected by poisons or sickness, my bones never break no matter what amount of stress is applied to them. I've seen many miracles. So I know that it was acceptable but the Baptist Church tells me I must reject my baptism and be re-baptised by submersion again or they will not accept me as a Christian. They also claim their theology is the "Absolute Truth" and give it higher regard than the Bible. Those are the local Baptists though. IDK about other Baptists. On 05/15/2011 09:53 PM, Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > Yes. I agree with you David. > > I think he means avoiding dogmatic practices of the denominations like > the Catholic church, Methodism, Wesleyan and more. The problem with > this is that other than nits....some bigger than others...most of the > denominations are the same when you really look at it. For example, > some denominations believe in baptizing babies and others don't > baptize until they are old enough to make a declaration of their > faith. Some support full immersion baptism and others sprinkle water > (Bible depicts full water). Some read scriptures at the same time and > have certain practices and some don't. All of those specifics aren't > necessarily in the Bible but are dogma set forth by the denomination. > > The sad part of all of this is that the differences are mostly minor. > Sometimes though they are not minor because they are not biblical. > For example, find me the scripture that says we baptize babies?? Is > baptizing babies wrong? Possibly...but you won't find me chastising > someone because that is what they believe. > > The problem some denominations forget is that Christ is the center and > that the most important thing is a relationship with him....not the > dogma and religion that is created by it. > From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 17:39:28 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:39:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> > I am well aware of the baptism dispute. I myself am caught in the > crossfire on that one. I was baptised as a baby and received > salvation later and after that received the Holy Spirit. I know my > baptisum and dedication was acceptable to the Lord because when I > pray for the sick they are healed, I am not affected by poisons or > sickness, my bones never break no matter what amount of stress is > applied to them. I've seen many miracles. I was not baptized or dedicated as a baby, surrendered to Christ as an adult and was immersion-baptized, and have seen healing from prayer in which I was involved. So I guess that my salvation was equally acceptable to the Lord? I broke a collar bone as a child but none since my salvation. I have no intention of "testing the Lord my God" to see if they break or do not break under avoidable intentional stress! ;-) I guarantee you that your bones may be broken, though yours may be genetically more resilient than average. There is nothing in the Bible about a believer's bones being break-free as an evidence of their salvation - where did that come from, please? > So I know that it was acceptable but the Baptist Church tells me I > must reject my baptism and be re-baptised by submersion again or they > will not accept me as a Christian. They also claim their theology is > the "Absolute Truth" and give it higher regard than the Bible. Those > are the local Baptists though. IDK about other Baptists. I do not know who are you "local Baptists" but Southern Baptist doctrine defines baptism and "non-salvific". Many may view you as in-rebellion for refusing the instruction of the Bible to be baptized as a public testimony of your faith, and as a first-act of obedience to your Lord, but not non-Christian. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 17:49:38 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:49:38 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> As I have developed a Bible study tool through the NT and the OT (so far up through the Psalms) I have tried not to "spin" the Word of God. That said, there are streams of revelation and themes of teaching which beg to be highlighted - sometimes because the Word has been misrepresented (IMHO) and sometimes because people are asking different questions these days and are teachable in new areas. I have no desire to "invent" a new theology, nor to promote anything extra-Biblical that has been invented by others, but only to "rightly-divide" the Lord God's truth -- making it more accessible for study. No mere man has anything of value to add to the Word of God. While there are many cults who have deliberately misrepresented the Word, many in existing religious organizations (mislabeled "churches" and sometimes labeled "denominations" or "associations") have selectively misrepresented the Word, and others have been careless with the Word -- my belief is that serious Holy Spirit guided intentionally-Christian Bible students genuinely seek the truth. We will never get it all perfect - we'll have to wait for Heaven for that! > On May 16, 2011, at 1:34 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > > >> Then the people in the Church listen to the great pastor and learn his beliefs. Often times people don't go directly to God and the Bible. This causes confusion between believers and arguments that lead to division. >> > I think that's an oversimplification, but it does happen. A good pastor points people to Scripture and encourages them to read it and test what he is saying (think of the Bereans, Acts 17). However, the process of telling people to read Scripture because it is useful for teaching, etc. (2 Tim. 3.16) is within what we call "theology." It is affirming the theological truth that Scripture is the authority for faith and life. > > As I mentioned in my response to your private message, the definition for theology is "the study of the nature of God and religious belief." So, Christians who avoid theology are -- necessarily, by the definition of the word -- avoiding studying the nature of God. > > The idea that Christianity is not a religion is really a cliche. It sounds good and it affirms something true: Christianity is about a relationship with our Lord and Savior. Nevertheless, if we define a religion as "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power" (or something like that), Christianity is a religion. It just happens to be the TRUE religion. > > Here, I'll break it down: > > "the belief in" == "Whosoever believes in him" (Jn 3.16) > "And worship" == "all the families of the nations shall worship before you" (Ps. 22.27) > "of a superhuman controlling power" == "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8.29) > > The reason people reject the terms theology and religion relates to the negatives associated with them. It is OK if you don't like using the terms, but the terms themselves are neutral terms that happen to describe what we are and do as the Church. To say Christianity is not a religion or does not involve theology requires redefining what those words mean. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 18:01:16 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <560181.77778.qm@web1101.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> ----- Original Message ---- From: "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" To: Linux for Christians Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 2:39:28 PM Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. > I am well aware of the baptism dispute. I myself am caught in the > crossfire on that one. I was baptised as a baby and received > salvation later and after that received the Holy Spirit. I know my > baptisum and dedication was acceptable to the Lord because when I > pray for the sick they are healed, I am not affected by poisons or > sickness, my bones never break no matter what amount of stress is > applied to them. I've seen many miracles. I was not baptized or dedicated as a baby, surrendered to Christ as an adult and was immersion-baptized, and have seen healing from prayer in which I was involved. So I guess that my salvation was equally acceptable to the Lord? I broke a collar bone as a child but none since my salvation. I have no intention of "testing the Lord my God" to see if they break or do not break under avoidable intentional stress! ;-) I guarantee you that your bones may be broken, though yours may be genetically more resilient than average. There is nothing in the Bible about a believer's bones being break-free as an evidence of their salvation - where did that come from, please? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I wasn't saying that you need any of these things to be saved, I was just confirming some of the promises and signs in scripture. Psalms 34:19-20 "19 The righteous person may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all; 20 he protects all his bones, not one of them will be broken." > So I know that it was acceptable but the Baptist Church tells me I > must reject my baptism and be re-baptised by submersion again or they > will not accept me as a Christian. They also claim their theology is > the "Absolute Truth" and give it higher regard than the Bible. Those > are the local Baptists though. IDK about other Baptists. I do not know who are you "local Baptists" but Southern Baptist doctrine defines baptism and "non-salvific". Many may view you as in-rebellion for refusing the instruction of the Bible to be baptized as a public testimony of your faith, and as a first-act of obedience to your Lord, but not non-Christian. -------------------------------------------------------- They claim that Baptisum has nothing to do with receiving the Holy Spirit, repenting, or Salvation and is completely separate but if you don't get baptised their way you can't become a Baptist not that I'd want to. I wanted to get involved in their Youth Outreach and assist them as their youth pastor wanted but the head pastor said that unless I became a Baptist and got baptised their way I could not work with them. It wasn't because my beliefs were different because I told them all I wanted to do was assist with Worship and let them do the preaching. I had the largest youth centre in my town and wanted to merge with them to help their efforts and still retain my non-denominational status and do as the Lord commanded me. The Lord commanded me not to become part of any denomination or take on a label of any kind. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 18:05:06 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:05:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> What I'm seeking isn't a perfect theology because one does not exist. I'm seeking Open Source Christianity or Non-Denominational Christianity where we feed off of and learn from the source which is God's Word and the Spirit. I'm not looking for a Proprietary theology, doctrine, or denomination that is commercially supported by a corporate Church name. Support is nice but not the control that may come with it. ----- Original Message ---- From: "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" To: Linux for Christians Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 2:49:38 PM Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. As I have developed a Bible study tool through the NT and the OT (so far up through the Psalms) I have tried not to "spin" the Word of God. That said, there are streams of revelation and themes of teaching which beg to be highlighted - sometimes because the Word has been misrepresented (IMHO) and sometimes because people are asking different questions these days and are teachable in new areas. I have no desire to "invent" a new theology, nor to promote anything extra-Biblical that has been invented by others, but only to "rightly-divide" the Lord God's truth -- making it more accessible for study. No mere man has anything of value to add to the Word of God. While there are many cults who have deliberately misrepresented the Word, many in existing religious organizations (mislabeled "churches" and sometimes labeled "denominations" or "associations") have selectively misrepresented the Word, and others have been careless with the Word -- my belief is that serious Holy Spirit guided intentionally-Christian Bible students genuinely seek the truth. We will never get it all perfect - we'll have to wait for Heaven for that! > On May 16, 2011, at 1:34 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > > >> Then the people in the Church listen to the great pastor and learn his beliefs. >>Often times people don't go directly to God and the Bible. This causes confusion >>between believers and arguments that lead to division. >> > I think that's an oversimplification, but it does happen. A good pastor points >people to Scripture and encourages them to read it and test what he is saying >(think of the Bereans, Acts 17). However, the process of telling people to read >Scripture because it is useful for teaching, etc. (2 Tim. 3.16) is within what >we call "theology." It is affirming the theological truth that Scripture is the >authority for faith and life. > > As I mentioned in my response to your private message, the definition for >theology is "the study of the nature of God and religious belief." So, >Christians who avoid theology are -- necessarily, by the definition of the word >-- avoiding studying the nature of God. > > The idea that Christianity is not a religion is really a cliche. It sounds good >and it affirms something true: Christianity is about a relationship with our >Lord and Savior. Nevertheless, if we define a religion as "the belief in and >worship of a superhuman controlling power" (or something like that), >Christianity is a religion. It just happens to be the TRUE religion. > > Here, I'll break it down: > > "the belief in" == "Whosoever believes in him" (Jn 3.16) > "And worship" == "all the families of the nations shall worship before you" >(Ps. 22.27) > "of a superhuman controlling power" == "For those whom he foreknew he also >predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be >the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8.29) > > The reason people reject the terms theology and religion relates to the >negatives associated with them. It is OK if you don't like using the terms, but >the terms themselves are neutral terms that happen to describe what we are and >do as the Church. To say Christianity is not a religion or does not involve >theology requires redefining what those words mean. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 18:06:54 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:06:54 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD19FFE.7060609@bibleseven.com> I am with you on that! I know that I have been locked-out of a number of 'opportunities' because I don't fit into one 'religious box' or another. Oh well. We happen to be affiliated with the SBC at the moment but have not surrendered the Word to the man-made Association! > USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > What I'm seeking isn't a perfect theology because one does not > exist. > > I'm seeking Open Source Christianity or Non-Denominational > Christianity where we feed off of and learn from the source which is > God's Word and the Spirit. I'm not looking for a Proprietary > theology, doctrine, or denomination that is commercially supported by > a corporate Church name. Support is nice but not the control that may > come with it. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Mon May 16 18:11:01 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:11:01 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD1A0F5.4030407@staggs.net> Didn't the SBC vote a few years back to require "re-baptism" of members transferring from Churches that do not follow the doctrine of eternal security? I recall having several discusses with some SB Brothers regarding this. If I recall correctly, there was even the dismissal and subsequent reinstatement of a SBC counsel member in protest of this vote. I am told the local SB Churches in my area do not practice this "rule". http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/southern-baptists-to-reject-some-baptist-baptisms Seems pretty Salvation oriented to me.... Perhaps I misunderstood your statement. Respectfully, -- bstaggs <>< On 5/16/2011 4:39 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > >> So I know that it was acceptable but the Baptist Church tells me I >> must reject my baptism and be re-baptised by submersion again or they >> will not accept me as a Christian. They also claim their theology is >> the "Absolute Truth" and give it higher regard than the Bible. Those >> are the local Baptists though. IDK about other Baptists. > > I do not know who are you "local Baptists" but Southern Baptist > doctrine defines baptism and "non-salvific". > > Many may view you as in-rebellion for refusing the instruction > of the Bible to be baptized as a public testimony of your faith, and > as a first-act of obedience to your Lord, but not non-Christian. > > From tbutler at ofb.biz Mon May 16 18:30:02 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:30:02 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <45754300-5EAD-4EA4-8C45-C9999024172E@ofb.biz> On May 16, 2011, at 5:05 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > I'm seeking Open Source Christianity or Non-Denominational Christianity where we > feed off of and learn from the source which is God's Word and the Spirit. I'm > not looking for a Proprietary theology, doctrine, or denomination that is > commercially supported by a corporate Church name. Support is nice but not the > control that may come with it. Open Source Christianity sounds like a good idea, if it could stay like that. Since people inevitably disagree, it seems "forks" are hard to avoid. Just as GNOME and KDE both get most things right, I think most of the non-fringe denominations get most things right... E.g. while I am a Presbyterian (because it best represents how I understand Scripture), I happily work with *believers* of any other denomination. Depending on our level of agreement or disagreement, some cooperation may be easier or harder. For example, sadly, some of the local Baptists won't work with us because of our stance on infant baptism, etc. -Tim From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 18:34:54 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:34:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Perhaps after collaborating with others and cleaning up my work what I need to do is start an online open source Church in Forum, Mailing list, IRC Chat form that allows those seeking the source of truth to collaborate with one another in the Body of Christ. I know first hand that not every city has a Church where the source can be found or at least where it's not frowned upon. Often times I find that when pursuing the source of truth most Churches are already in violation of the Bible especially Matthew 23: "5 ?Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries[a] wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6 they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7 they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ?Rabbi? by others. 8 ?But you are not to be called ?Rabbi,? for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ?father,? for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted." What Church follows this and calls everyone brother? That's what I call Open Source Christianity. ----- Original Message ---- From: "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" To: Linux for Christians Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 2:49:38 PM Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. As I have developed a Bible study tool through the NT and the OT (so far up through the Psalms) I have tried not to "spin" the Word of God. That said, there are streams of revelation and themes of teaching which beg to be highlighted - sometimes because the Word has been misrepresented (IMHO) and sometimes because people are asking different questions these days and are teachable in new areas. I have no desire to "invent" a new theology, nor to promote anything extra-Biblical that has been invented by others, but only to "rightly-divide" the Lord God's truth -- making it more accessible for study. No mere man has anything of value to add to the Word of God. While there are many cults who have deliberately misrepresented the Word, many in existing religious organizations (mislabeled "churches" and sometimes labeled "denominations" or "associations") have selectively misrepresented the Word, and others have been careless with the Word -- my belief is that serious Holy Spirit guided intentionally-Christian Bible students genuinely seek the truth. We will never get it all perfect - we'll have to wait for Heaven for that! > On May 16, 2011, at 1:34 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > > >> Then the people in the Church listen to the great pastor and learn his beliefs. >>Often times people don't go directly to God and the Bible. This causes confusion >>between believers and arguments that lead to division. >> > I think that's an oversimplification, but it does happen. A good pastor points >people to Scripture and encourages them to read it and test what he is saying >(think of the Bereans, Acts 17). However, the process of telling people to read >Scripture because it is useful for teaching, etc. (2 Tim. 3.16) is within what >we call "theology." It is affirming the theological truth that Scripture is the >authority for faith and life. > > As I mentioned in my response to your private message, the definition for >theology is "the study of the nature of God and religious belief." So, >Christians who avoid theology are -- necessarily, by the definition of the word >-- avoiding studying the nature of God. > > The idea that Christianity is not a religion is really a cliche. It sounds good >and it affirms something true: Christianity is about a relationship with our >Lord and Savior. Nevertheless, if we define a religion as "the belief in and >worship of a superhuman controlling power" (or something like that), >Christianity is a religion. It just happens to be the TRUE religion. > > Here, I'll break it down: > > "the belief in" == "Whosoever believes in him" (Jn 3.16) > "And worship" == "all the families of the nations shall worship before you" >(Ps. 22.27) > "of a superhuman controlling power" == "For those whom he foreknew he also >predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be >the firstborn among many brothers" (Rom. 8.29) > > The reason people reject the terms theology and religion relates to the >negatives associated with them. It is OK if you don't like using the terms, but >the terms themselves are neutral terms that happen to describe what we are and >do as the Church. To say Christianity is not a religion or does not involve >theology requires redefining what those words mean. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 18:39:19 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 15:39:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <45754300-5EAD-4EA4-8C45-C9999024172E@ofb.biz> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <45754300-5EAD-4EA4-8C45-C9999024172E@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <392119.14877.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> I think the trap here would be to become like people say the Unitarians are. (never met Unitarians) Where they accept any belief anyone has as something be right or acceptable to God when these sins are clearly marked out in the Bible as being wrong such as saying that God is ok with people being Gay / Lesiban and that it's all part of His plan. That is blasphemy. I've heard of agreements between Churches before where they have to conform to the Bible as a standard and that as long as it's in there or is not something the Bible speaks against it's accepted at community functions. ----- Original Message ---- From: Timothy Butler To: Linux for Christians Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 3:30:02 PM Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. On May 16, 2011, at 5:05 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > I'm seeking Open Source Christianity or Non-Denominational Christianity where >we > > feed off of and learn from the source which is God's Word and the Spirit. I'm > not looking for a Proprietary theology, doctrine, or denomination that is > commercially supported by a corporate Church name. Support is nice but not the > control that may come with it. Open Source Christianity sounds like a good idea, if it could stay like that. Since people inevitably disagree, it seems "forks" are hard to avoid. Just as GNOME and KDE both get most things right, I think most of the non-fringe denominations get most things right... E.g. while I am a Presbyterian (because it best represents how I understand Scripture), I happily work with *believers* of any other denomination. Depending on our level of agreement or disagreement, some cooperation may be easier or harder. For example, sadly, some of the local Baptists won't work with us because of our stance on infant baptism, etc. -Tim _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 18:43:41 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:43:41 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD1A0F5.4030407@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> <4DD1A0F5.4030407@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD1A89D.4000400@bibleseven.com> The SBC is an "association" rather than a "denomination", thus it has only an advisory and assistance role alongside the local fellowship - they cannot dictate and their true heirarchical standing is below rather than above the local fellowship - even if some of the bureaucrats and politicians at the SBC don't always get that. They do have a degree of ownership of the SBC "member" designation (sort of a trademark, I suppose) and may dis-fellowship a member fellowship following a pretty rigorous process - but that is extraordinarily rare - it is more common institutionally as with several of the former SBC colleges. If the SBC tried to exercise significant micro-management of the local fellowships they would see a devastating movement of fellowships out of the association - and in a hurry - and would lose a great deal of income and standing. The good bureaucrats there know better than to rock that boat! That said, it is true at the local level that formal membership and access to leadership does presume post-salvation baptism -- but that remains non-salvific -- only affirmation and surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ is salvific. Baptism is about obedience and testimony - not "proof" of salvation nor an element without which one is not saved. A local fellowship which is voluntarily affiliated with the SBC does so because they agree with others as to the meaning of baptism, rather than them existing because the SBC brought them into existence and demanded that doctrine of them. Or so I understand it ... not being an association/denomination- centric Christian ... ;-) > Didn't the SBC vote a few years back to require "re-baptism" of > members transferring from Churches that do not follow the doctrine of > eternal security? I recall having several discusses with some SB > Brothers regarding this. If I recall correctly, there was even the > dismissal and subsequent reinstatement of a SBC counsel member in > protest of this vote. I am told the local SB Churches in my area do > not practice this "rule". > > http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/southern-baptists-to-reject-some-baptist-baptisms > > Seems pretty Salvation oriented to me.... Perhaps I misunderstood your statement. > > > Respectfully, > > -- bstaggs <>< -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Mon May 16 18:49:50 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 17:49:50 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] ***SPAM*** Re: I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> Not to offend, but is a long term Non-Denominational Church really possible? Considering the vast number of Christian denominations wouldn't the preaching/teaching (theological interpretation) most probably line up with one of them? There are several denominations that currently have almost (if not totally) identical theology, just different governing bodies. I guess they could be totally independent of any denominational ties, but what about when a Pastor change happens? Will the Church them change It's theology to match the new Pastor? What happens when there is a disagreement to the point of division? Do we start over every time there is a "takeover" so to speak? When I am travaling I like having the "reasonable" expectation that when I stop at a "XYZ" Church they will be worshiping in a manner that I agree with and not practicing something I consider unscriptural. Nor do I wish to offend their members if I come and worship in a manor they don't agree with. I understand the desire to not get caught up in man made rules and practices, but the New Testament if filled with warnings against allowing false doctrine in and I feel without some governing authority it could become anarchy of the week. Perhaps my perspective is different, having left a particular denomination after 15 years because of a lack of central authority (or precised thereof) and joined one with a stronger central governmant. It really is a two edged sword.... much like the debates between Luther and Erasmus. Respectfully, -- bstaggs <>< On 5/16/2011 5:05 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > What I'm seeking isn't a perfect theology because one does not exist. > > I'm seeking Open Source Christianity or Non-Denominational Christianity where we > feed off of and learn from the source which is God's Word and the Spirit. I'm > not looking for a Proprietary theology, doctrine, or denomination that is > commercially supported by a corporate Church name. Support is nice but not the > control that may come with it. > > > > From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 18:56:28 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 18:56:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> This is kinda out of full context - please add the considerable teaching about "elders" and the Biblical *gift* of teaching - then try to reassemble the construct - if you would? Is there someone or some book(s) you are hearing or reading that has prompted you along this path, please? Humans mature at different rates, learn in different ways, and require a social 'container' to keep them from anarchy. There is a reason why Jesus taught us to honor and obey 'leaders'. We met for a brief while with some 'home fellowship' folks who took the no leader(s) and no agenda view - it was a mess because when one creates a vacuum -- the enemy-manipulated flesh fills it. Think of the intertestamental period "Where each did as he saw best." Also note in the NT: Jesus was a teacher. Paul was a teacher. Peter was a teacher. John was a teacher. Timothy was a teacher. Titus was a teacher. And others ... And they were instructed to multiply themselves, to create structures for accountability and order within the fellowships. There simply is no Biblical way to justify a boundary-free and/or structure-free Biblical fellowship. OTOH, to build a fellowship where the boundaries and structure do not "wag the dog" of Bible learning and Biblical living is an equal challenge. We have worked inside cell, house, home, and a wide variety of associational fellowships -- they were *all* imperfect. The best were always where those with leadership gifts and responsibilities viewed themselves as coaches and mentors rather than as celebrities and/or dictators. > 8 ?But you are not to be called ?Rabbi,? for you have one Teacher, > and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ?father,? > for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be > called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The > greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt > themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be > exalted." What Church follows this and calls everyone brother? > > That's what I call Open Source Christianity. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 19:07:34 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:07:34 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD1A89D.4000400@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> <4DD1A0F5.4030407@staggs.net> <4DD1A89D.4000400@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <118923.79710.qm@web1103.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> My view on Baptism is that as Jesus demonstrated the Holy Spirit is most easily accepted after Baptism. There is one case where the people received the Spirit and then were Baptised right afterwards. As I explained to them (my opinion and experience not fact) I believe that the Holy Spirit does not stay with someone until after they have been Baptised. In the Old Testimony the Spirit came upon people but never stayed with them. The only example I can think of that might counter that is King David. From what we can gather in Scripture the Spirit didn't leave David and he appeared to have the Spirit as a young boy. I don't fully understand David's experience with the Spirit. All I know is that regardless of any loop holes that allow you to have the Spirit in you I find that for the people I've led to the Lord and talked with that either being baptised, receiving Christ, repenting, and receiving the Holy Spirit works or Receiving Christ, Repenting, Being Baptised, and receiving the Holy Spirit. I've never met anyone besides the local Baptists who have said any different or claim to have experienced any different. This next part might be hard to swallow. (no offence intended) The Bible says that by their fruits you shall know them. The local Baptists here seem to want to take over all the Churches here and make them conform to their truth or be rejected. The local pastor has told lies to me to try to turn me against my own pastor. The children at their youth centre are exposed to verbal abuse during Boy Scout meetings there and have been belittled by giving out awards for the person who did the worst ect. I know because I use to be heavily involved in most youth activity in this town before the Parents got discussed with me and my family and wanted us to make exceptions for their children and just sign them off and stuff. So that's the fruit of what they are doing. I have had people come to me crying who have been to Churches such as the Catholic Church and Baptist Church here who are upset because they can not communicate with the Lord or understand His word. All that have repented, been baptised, and received the Holy Spirit don't have this problem. Most people in town are not aware of what the Holy Spirit is and have never heard the term. All I know is that the way God taught me works. I'm not saying no one else's way works but if I know it works and someone asks me what they need to do or what I think they should do all I can do is tell them what I know works and how God has taught me and then ask them to ask God if that's what they should do. ----- Original Message ---- From: "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" To: Linux for Christians Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 3:43:41 PM Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. The SBC is an "association" rather than a "denomination", thus it has only an advisory and assistance role alongside the local fellowship - they cannot dictate and their true heirarchical standing is below rather than above the local fellowship - even if some of the bureaucrats and politicians at the SBC don't always get that. They do have a degree of ownership of the SBC "member" designation (sort of a trademark, I suppose) and may dis-fellowship a member fellowship following a pretty rigorous process - but that is extraordinarily rare - it is more common institutionally as with several of the former SBC colleges. If the SBC tried to exercise significant micro-management of the local fellowships they would see a devastating movement of fellowships out of the association - and in a hurry - and would lose a great deal of income and standing. The good bureaucrats there know better than to rock that boat! That said, it is true at the local level that formal membership and access to leadership does presume post-salvation baptism -- but that remains non-salvific -- only affirmation and surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ is salvific. Baptism is about obedience and testimony - not "proof" of salvation nor an element without which one is not saved. A local fellowship which is voluntarily affiliated with the SBC does so because they agree with others as to the meaning of baptism, rather than them existing because the SBC brought them into existence and demanded that doctrine of them. Or so I understand it ... not being an association/denomination- centric Christian ... ;-) > Didn't the SBC vote a few years back to require "re-baptism" of > members transferring from Churches that do not follow the doctrine of > eternal security? I recall having several discusses with some SB > Brothers regarding this. If I recall correctly, there was even the > dismissal and subsequent reinstatement of a SBC counsel member in > protest of this vote. I am told the local SB Churches in my area do > not practice this "rule". > > http://biblebeltblogger.com/index.php/religion/southern-baptists-to-reject-some-baptist-baptisms > > Seems pretty Salvation oriented to me.... Perhaps I misunderstood your statement. > > > Respectfully, > > -- bstaggs <>< -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 16 19:17:21 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 16:17:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <625332.52997.qm@web1115.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> You don't understand what I think or what I'm getting at. I'm not upset with structure. I think structure is great. I read this book called "So you don't want to go to Church?" and it's a great book. At one point a man comes in to their Church Group and asks how can this work if no one is called Pastor or Leader? No one is assigned a title? The answer was very simple. A man walked in and asked the man if he could fix his car. He said no but that guy can and pointed to him. His talent was being a mechanic. Some are leaders, some are cooks, some are mechanics, some fix computers, but we all are ministers. Every Christian is a minister because we all have a ministry. As Matthew 23 says Jesus / God is the leader / teacher so if we are being led by the Spirit and we are in a community then God will speak threw us to one another. I've seen this work in person. The only problem with the Church I went to that was like this was that one of the "leaders" wanted glory and physicality prompted their children to start faking the manifestation of the Spirit. "Holy Rollers". No one confronted the issue because she was a "leader" and so I left the group. When you make someone a "leader" they are put up on a pedistol of pride. Either they will put themselves up there and keep trying to climb higher or the people will keep praising them in the wrong way and try to put them up there and keep making them climb higher. This makes it very hard for a "leader" to resist taking the Glory and not reflecting it back to God. Humility is what it's all about. it's fine to have a leader as long as he / she is reminded that they are human from time to time and are not encouraged to become more than an equal. Leaders need to listen to their brothers in Christ in their body as well that they are put over because God will speak and does speak threw everyone and to everyone who listens and seeks Him. ----- Original Message ---- From: "dcolburn at bibleseven.com" To: Linux for Christians Sent: Mon, May 16, 2011 3:56:28 PM Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. This is kinda out of full context - please add the considerable teaching about "elders" and the Biblical *gift* of teaching - then try to reassemble the construct - if you would? Is there someone or some book(s) you are hearing or reading that has prompted you along this path, please? Humans mature at different rates, learn in different ways, and require a social 'container' to keep them from anarchy. There is a reason why Jesus taught us to honor and obey 'leaders'. We met for a brief while with some 'home fellowship' folks who took the no leader(s) and no agenda view - it was a mess because when one creates a vacuum -- the enemy-manipulated flesh fills it. Think of the intertestamental period "Where each did as he saw best." Also note in the NT: Jesus was a teacher. Paul was a teacher. Peter was a teacher. John was a teacher. Timothy was a teacher. Titus was a teacher. And others ... And they were instructed to multiply themselves, to create structures for accountability and order within the fellowships. There simply is no Biblical way to justify a boundary-free and/or structure-free Biblical fellowship. OTOH, to build a fellowship where the boundaries and structure do not "wag the dog" of Bible learning and Biblical living is an equal challenge. We have worked inside cell, house, home, and a wide variety of associational fellowships -- they were *all* imperfect. The best were always where those with leadership gifts and responsibilities viewed themselves as coaches and mentors rather than as celebrities and/or dictators. > 8 ?But you are not to be called ?Rabbi,? for you have one Teacher, > and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ?father,? > for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be > called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The > greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt > themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be > exalted." What Church follows this and calls everyone brother? > > That's what I call Open Source Christianity. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 19:17:13 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 19:17:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <118923.79710.qm@web1103.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD09747.4040606@bibleseven.com> <4DD16AF0.3050303@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19990.8000909@bibleseven.com> <4DD1A0F5.4030407@staggs.net> <4DD1A89D.4000400@bibleseven.com> <118923.79710.qm@web1103.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD1B079.9010002@bibleseven.com> I am sorry that your community has been victimized by sick men pretending to represent the Lord Jesus - they will answer to Him - you don't want to be nearby when they do ... ;-) In every association, denomination, and professedly-independent gathering of humans there are troubled people who abuse authority and people. It is reprehensible. David wrote "Take not Your Holy Spirit from me." because the HS did not in-dwell as He does in the post-Pentecost believer. It is impossible, if truly saved, for the the Holy Spirit to leave because you *belong to* Him -- He is not merely "visiting". Stay the course, brother ... > USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > > The Bible says that by their fruits you shall know them. The local > Baptists here seem to want to take over all the Churches here and > make them conform to their truth or be rejected. The local pastor has > told lies to me to try to turn me against my own pastor. The children > at their youth centre are exposed to verbal abuse during Boy Scout > meetings there and have been belittled by giving out awards for the > person who did the worst ect. > > > I know because I use to be heavily involved in most youth activity in > this town before the Parents got discussed with me and my family and > wanted us to make exceptions for their children and just sign them > off and stuff. > > > So that's the fruit of what they are doing. > > I have had people come to me crying who have been to Churches such as > the Catholic Church and Baptist Church here who are upset because > they can not communicate with the Lord or understand His word. All > that have repented, been baptised, and received the Holy Spirit don't > have this problem. Most people in town are not aware of what the Holy > Spirit is and have never heard the term. > > All I know is that the way God taught me works. I'm not saying no one > else's way works but if I know it works and someone asks me what they > need to do or what I think they should do all I can do is tell them > what I know works and how God has taught me and then ask them to ask > God if that's what they should do. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From htgage3 at chartermi.net Mon May 16 21:31:34 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 21:31:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? Message-ID: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Well, if you look up the word "catholic" in Webster's, it is "universal." But, from what I can read, and understand from God's Holy Word, the church is in no way shape or form universal. It is local, and very visible. If the church was universal, in order to discipline one, ie, 1 Cor 7, how on earth could the universal church agree to meet in one location, would there be enough hotel rooms for them in that location? Would they all be able to meet in the invisible church that is meeting there? Along with the invisible ushers, invisible pews, invisible song books, invisible song leader, invisible musical instruments, invisible pastor, invisible choir, then to have a invisible meeting with invisible minutes being invisibly read by a invisible clerk, treasures report being read by a invisible treasure, which the invisible ushers collected in the invisible collection platers? Sorry, I have gotten off track a little bit....But to have a universal, invisible church is invariably impossible. Look at Revelation. Were there not seven stars in Christ's hand, representative of seven churches that John was to send letters to? This is the basis of my above rant. Sorry, it just can not happen. On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Christopher Rose wrote: > The problem with an answer like that is that is dodges the issue. The > same has been said of predestination. I have been through many debates > regarding end time prophecy and predestination over the course of the > last ten to fifteen years. Most of them end with me being told that if > I don't believe as they do, then I am not a Christian. However, these > are the things that Christians should discuss so that we may truly be > one universal Christan church (the ancient texts say "catholic", but I > know some get worked up over that term). If the whole of the Christian > church can truly come together on a universal set of doctrinal > statements regarding what we believe in all these arenas, then we will > have the best set of evangelical tools ever. Thus our ever present and > perpetual need for pastors, teachers, and theologians. Through study, > discussion, and prayer we can give the church a single unified voice > and body. However, it also means touching issues we find distasteful > and would rather dodge, such as end time prophecy and predestination > (oddly, these two doctrines are somewhat closely related, but that is > a discourse for another time). > > Respectfully, > > Christopher L. Rose > > > > May 15, 2011 01:31:34 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > =========================================== > > My first ministry-mentor did not like getting tangled up in doctrinal > debates so his take was "I am an O-Millenialist." and when pressed > to explain he'd say "Oh well, whatever God decides to do is fine > with me." > > ;-) > >> Christopher Rose wrote: >> The statistics I've heard say that most of the Christians throughout >> the world are amillenialists. I just happen to be one of them. > > -- > > Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! > David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 > Defend free speech or lose your freedom. > I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From htgage3 at chartermi.net Mon May 16 21:44:06 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 21:44:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. Message-ID: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Yeah, find a church that teaches the Bible, 'as it is written' not according to what they believe, and local, visible church. One that holds to baptism by immersion, and local congregation taking communion, no visitors allowed, no one who you don't know allowed either. If this doctrine is violated, then it is not a local, visible New Testament Church. Can;t get much simplier than that! On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:03 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > I need some advice. > > > I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and > base everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the > Bible. > I'm trying to unlearn theology. > Anyone got any resources? > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue May 17 01:10:02 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 00:10:02 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] ***SPAM*** Re: I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> Message-ID: On May 16, 2011, at 5:49 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Perhaps my perspective is different, having left a particular denomination after 15 years because of a lack of central authority (or precised thereof) and joined one with a stronger central governmant. It really is a two edged sword.... much like the debates between Luther and Erasmus. Agreed. I too departed a weak structured denomination for a much more centralized one. Frankly, humans are too sinful for independent churches much of the time. The pastor (or other leaders) face too many temptations to grasp for power and there is little to keep them accountable. I think it is Biblical for there to be the accountability of other churches upon the individual churches... Just as in, say, Acts 15. -Tim From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue May 17 01:22:11 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 01:22:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <392119.14877.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <45754300-5EAD-4EA4-8C45-C9999024172E@ofb.biz> <392119.14877.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4DD20603.6060303@lightlink.com> On 05/16/2011 06:39 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > I think the trap here would be to become like people say the Unitarians are. > (never met Unitarians) Where they accept any belief anyone has as something be > right or acceptable to God when these sins are clearly marked out in the Bible > as being wrong such as saying that God is ok with people being Gay / Lesiban and > that it's all part of His plan. That is blasphemy. I've heard of agreements > between Churches before where they have to conform to the Bible as a standard > and that as long as it's in there or is not something the Bible speaks against > it's accepted at community functions. Well, Unitarians will pray to "whom it concerns", or close to that because they aren't sure "who" it is. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 16 22:16:21 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 16 May 2011 22:16:21 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Psalms 119 Message-ID: <4DD1DA75.3070003@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Psalms 119 Psalm 119 119:1 ? (Alef) How blessed are those whose actions are blameless, who obey the law of the Lord. 119:2 How blessed are those who observe his rules, and seek him with all their heart, 119:3 who, moreover, do no wrong, but follow in his footsteps. 119:4 You demand that your precepts be carefully kept. 119:5 If only I were predisposed to keep your statutes! 119:6 Then I would not be ashamed, if I were focused on all your commands. 119:7 I will give you sincere thanks, when I learn your just regulations. 119:8 I will keep your statutes. Do not completely abandon me! 119:9 ? (Bet) How can a young person maintain a pure life? By guarding it according to your instructions! 119:10 With all my heart I seek you. Do not allow me to stray from your commands! 119:11 In my heart I store up your words, so I might not sin against you. 119:12 You deserve praise, O Lord! Teach me your statutes! 119:13 With my lips I proclaim all the regulations you have revealed. 119:14 I rejoice in the lifestyle prescribed by your rules as if they were riches of all kinds. 119:15 I will meditate on your precepts and focus on your behavior. 119:16 I find delight in your statutes; I do not forget your instructions. 119:17 ? (Gimel) Be kind to your servant! Then I will live and keep your instructions. 119:18 Open my eyes so I can truly see the marvelous things in your law! 119:19 I am like a foreigner in this land. Do not hide your commands from me! 119:20 I desperately long to know your regulations at all times. 119:21 You reprimand arrogant people. Those who stray from your commands are doomed. 119:22 Spare me shame and humiliation, for I observe your rules. 119:23 Though rulers plot and slander me, your servant meditates on your statutes. 119:24 Yes, I find delight in your rules; they give me guidance. 119:25 ? (Dalet) I collapse in the dirt. Revive me with your word! 119:26 I told you about my ways and you answered me. Teach me your statutes! 119:27 Help me to understand what your precepts mean! Then I can meditate on your marvelous teachings. 119:28 I collapse from grief. Sustain me by your word! 119:29 Remove me from the path of deceit! Graciously give me your law! 119:30 I choose the path of faithfulness; I am committed to your regulations. 119:31 I hold fast to your rules. O Lord, do not let me be ashamed! 119:32 I run along the path of your commands, for you enable me to do so. 119:33 ? (He) Teach me, O Lord, the lifestyle prescribed by your statutes, so that I might observe it continually. 119:34 Give me understanding so that I might observe your law, and keep it with all my heart. 119:35 Guide me in the path of your commands, for I delight to walk in it. 119:36 Give me a desire for your rules, rather than for wealth gained unjustly. 119:37 Turn my eyes away from what is worthless! Revive me with your word! 119:38 Confirm to your servant your promise, which you made to the one who honors you. 119:39 Take away the insults that I dread! Indeed, your regulations are good. 119:40 Look, I long for your precepts. Revive me with your deliverance! 119:41 ? (Vav) May I experience your loyal love, 64 O Lord, and your deliverance, as you promised. 119:42 Then I will have a reply for the one who insults me, for I trust in your word. 119:43 Do not completely deprive me of a truthful testimony, for I await your justice. 119:44 Then I will keep your law continually now and for all time. 119:45 I will be secure, for I seek your precepts. 119:46 I will speak about your regulations before kings and not be ashamed. 119:47 I will find delight in your commands, which I love. 119:48 I will lift my hands to your commands, which I love, and I will meditate on your statutes. 119:49 ? (Zayin) Remember your word to your servant, for you have given me hope. 119:50 This is what comforts me in my trouble, for your promise revives me. 119:51 Arrogant people do nothing but scoff at me. Yet I do not turn aside from your law. 119:52 I remember your ancient regulations, O Lord, and console myself. 119:53 Rage takes hold of me because of the wicked, those who reject your law. 119:54 Your statutes have been my songs in the house where I live. 119:55 I remember your name during the night, O Lord, and I will keep your law. 119:56 This has been my practice, for I observe your precepts. 119:57 ? (Khet) The Lord is my source of security. I have determined to follow your instructions. 119:58 I seek your favor with all my heart. Have mercy on me as you promised! 119:59 I consider my actions and follow your rules. 119:60 I keep your commands eagerly and without delay. 119:61 The ropes of the wicked tighten around me, but I do not forget your law. 119:62 In the middle of the night I arise to thank you for your just regulations. 119:63 I am a friend to all your loyal followers, and to those who keep your precepts. 119:64 O Lord, your loyal love fills the earth. Teach me your statutes! 119:65 ? (Tet) You are good to your servant, O Lord, just as you promised. 119:66 Teach me proper discernment and understanding! For I consider your commands to be reliable. 119:67 Before I was afflicted I used to stray off, but now I keep your instructions. 119:68 You are good and you do good. Teach me your statutes! 119:69 Arrogant people smear my reputation with lies, but I observe your precepts with all my heart. 119:70 Their hearts are calloused, but I find delight in your law. 119:71 It was good for me to suffer, so that I might learn your statutes. 119:72 The law you have revealed is more important to me than thousands of pieces of gold and silver. 119:73 ? (Yod) Your hands made me and formed me. Give me understanding so that I might learn your commands. 119:74 Your loyal followers will be glad when they see me, for I find hope in your word. 119:75 I know, Lord, that your regulations are just. You disciplined me because of your faithful devotion to me. 119:76 May your loyal love console me, as you promised your servant. 119:77 May I experience your compassion, so I might live! For I find delight in your law. 119:78 May the arrogant be humiliated, for they have slandered me! But I meditate on your precepts. 119:79 May your loyal followers turn to me, those who know your rules. 119:80 May I be fully committed to your statutes, so that I might not be ashamed. 119:81 ? (Kaf) I desperately long for your deliverance. I find hope in your word. 119:82 My eyes grow tired as I wait for your promise to be fulfilled. I say, "When will you comfort me?" 119:83 For I am like a wineskin dried up in smoke. I do not forget your statutes. 119:84 How long must your servant endure this? When will you judge those who pursue me? 119:85 The arrogant dig pits to trap me, which violates your law. 119:86 All your commands are reliable. I am pursued without reason. Help me! 119:87 They have almost destroyed me here on the earth, but I do not reject your precepts. 119:88 Revive me with your loyal love, that I might keep the rules you have revealed. 119:89 ? (Lamed) O Lord, your instructions endure; they stand secure in heaven. 119:90 You demonstrate your faithfulness to all generations. You established the earth and it stood firm. 119:91 Today they stand firm by your decrees, for all things are your servants. 119:92 If I had not found encouragement in your law, I would have died in my sorrow. 119:93 I will never forget your precepts, for by them you have revived me. 119:94 I belong to you. Deliver me! For I seek your precepts. 119:95 The wicked prepare to kill me, yet I concentrate on your rules. 119:96 I realize that everything has its limits, but your commands are beyond full comprehension. 119:97 ? (Mem) O how I love your law! All day long I meditate on it. 119:98 Your commandments make me wiser than my enemies, for I am always aware of them. 119:99 I have more insight than all my teachers, for I meditate on your rules. 119:100 I am more discerning than those older than I, for I observe your precepts. 119:101 I stay away from the evil path, so that I might keep your instructions. 119:102 I do not turn aside from your regulations, for you teach me. 119:103 Your words are sweeter in my mouth than honey! 119:104 Your precepts give me discernment. Therefore I hate all deceitful actions. 119:105 ? (Nun) Your word is a lamp to walk by, and a light to illumine my path. 119:106 I have vowed and solemnly sworn to keep your just regulations. 119:107 I am suffering terribly. O Lord, revive me with your word! 119:108 O Lord, please accept the freewill offerings of my praise! Teach me your regulations! 119:109 My life is in continual danger, but I do not forget your law. 119:110 The wicked lay a trap for me, but I do not wander from your precepts. 119:111 I claim your rules as my permanent possession, for they give me joy. 119:112 I am determined to obey your statutes at all times, to the very end. 119:113 ? (Samek) I hate people with divided loyalties, but I love your law. 119:114 You are my hiding place and my shield. I find hope in your word. 119:115 Turn away from me, you evil men, so that I can observe the commands of my God. 119:116 Sustain me as you promised, so that I will live. Do not disappoint me! 119:117 Support me, so that I will be delivered. Then I will focus on your statutes continually. 119:118 You despise all who stray from your statutes, for they are deceptive and unreliable. 119:119 You remove all the wicked of the earth like slag. Therefore I love your rules. 119:120 My body 155 trembles because I fear you; I am afraid of your judgments. 119:121 ? (Ayin) I do what is fair and right. Do not abandon me to my oppressors! 119:122 Guarantee the welfare of your servant! Do not let the arrogant oppress me! 119:123 My eyes grow tired as I wait for your deliverance, for your reliable promise to be fulfilled. 119:124 Show your servant your loyal love! Teach me your statutes! 119:125 I am your servant. Give me insight, so that I can understand 163 your rules. 119:126 It is time for the Lord to act -- they break your law! 119:127 For this reason I love your commands more than gold, even purest gold. 119:128 For this reason I carefully follow all your precepts. I hate all deceitful actions. 119:129 ? (Pe) Your rules are marvelous. Therefore I observe them. 119:130 Your instructions are a doorway through which light shines. They give insight to the untrained. 119:131 I open my mouth and pant, because I long for your commands. 119:132 Turn toward me and extend mercy to me, as you typically do to your loyal followers. 119:133 Direct my steps by your word! Do not let any sin dominate me! 119:134 Deliver me from oppressive men, so that I can keep your precepts. 119:135 Smile on your servant! Teach me your statutes! 119:136 Tears stream down from my eyes, because people do not keep your law. 119:137 ? (Tsade) You are just, O Lord, and your judgments are fair. 119:138 The rules you impose are just, and absolutely reliable. 119:139 My zeal consumes me, for my enemies forget your instructions. 119:140 Your word is absolutely pure, and your servant loves it! 119:141 I am insignificant and despised, yet I do not forget your precepts. 119:142 Your justice endures, and your law is reliable. 119:143 Distress and hardship confront me, yet I find delight in your commands. 119:144 Your rules remain just. Give me insight so that I can live. 119:145 ? (Qof) I cried out with all my heart, "Answer me, O Lord! I will observe your statutes." 119:146 I cried out to you, "Deliver me, so that I can keep your rules." 119:147 I am up before dawn crying for help. I find hope in your word. 119:148 My eyes anticipate the nighttime hours, so that I can meditate on your word. 119:149 Listen to me because of your loyal love! O Lord, revive me, as you typically do! 119:150 Those who are eager to do wrong draw near; they are far from your law. 119:151 You are near, O Lord, and all your commands are reliable. 119:152 I learned long ago that you ordained your rules to last. 119:153 ? (Resh) See my pain and rescue me! For I do not forget your law. 119:154 Fight for me and defend me! Revive me with your word! 119:155 The wicked have no chance for deliverance, for they do not seek your statutes. 119:156 Your compassion is great, O Lord. Revive me, as you typically do! 119:157 The enemies who chase me are numerous. Yet I do not turn aside from your rules. 119:158 I take note of the treacherous and despise them, because they do not keep your instructions. 119:159 See how I love your precepts! O Lord, revive me with your loyal love! 119:160 Your instructions are totally reliable; all your just regulations endure. 119:161 ??/?? (Sin/Shin) Rulers pursue me for no reason, yet I am more afraid of disobeying your instructions. 119:162 I rejoice in your instructions, like one who finds much plunder. 119:163 I hate and despise deceit; I love your law. 119:164 Seven times a day I praise you because of your just regulations. 119:165 Those who love your law are completely secure; nothing causes them to stumble. 119:166 I hope for your deliverance, O Lord, and I obey your commands. 119:167 I keep your rules; I love them greatly. 119:168 I keep your precepts and rules, for you are aware of everything I do. 119:169 ? (Tav) Listen to my cry for help, O Lord! Give me insight by your word! 119:170 Listen to my appeal for mercy! Deliver me, as you promised. 119:171 May praise flow freely from my lips, for you teach me your statutes. 119:172 May my tongue sing about your instructions, for all your commands are just. 119:173 May your hand help me, for I choose to obey your precepts. 119:174 I long for your deliverance, O Lord; I find delight in your law. 119:175 May I live and praise you! May your regulations help me! 119:176 I have wandered off like a lost sheep. Come looking for your servant, for I do not forget your commands. Prayer Lord, "Your word is a lamp to walk by, and a light to illumine my path. " No matter my circumstances may I always follow Your light rather than looking to the world for direction. Commentary Psalm 119 begins with wisdom "How blessed are those whose actions are blameless, who obey the law of the Lord. How blessed are those who observe his rules, and seek him with all their heart, who, moreover, do no wrong, but follow in his footsteps. You demand that your precepts be carefully kept. If only I were predisposed to keep your statutes! " From the NET Translator's Notes: "This lengthy psalm exhibits an elaborate acrostic pattern. The psalm is divided into twenty-two sections (corresponding to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet), each of which is comprised of eight verses. Each of the verses in the first section (vv. ) begins with the letter /alef/ (?), the first letter of the Hebrew alphabet. This pattern continues throughout the psalm as each new section highlights a successive letter of the alphabet. Each verse in section two (vv. ) begins with the second letter of the alphabet, each verse in section three (vv. ) with the third letter, etc. This rigid pattern creates a sense of order and completeness and may have facilitated memorization." The author continued "I will meditate on your precepts and focus on your behavior. I find delight in your statutes; I do not forget your instructions ... Guide me in the path of your commands, for I delight to walk in it. Give me a desire for your rules, rather than for wealth gained unjustly. Turn my eyes away from what is worthless! Revive me with your word! Confirm to your servant your promise, which you made to the one who honors you. " The author observes that obedience is a choice and reinforcement requires an intentional immersion in the Word "Your statutes have been my songs in the house where I live ... Your statutes have been my songs in the house where I live. " The author taught felicity to faithful fellow believers "I am a friend to all your loyal followers, and to those who keep your precepts. " Discipline is chastisement which purpose is to mature, therefore it is an act of love from our perfect Father in Heaven "I know, Lord, that your regulations are just. You disciplined me because of your faithful devotion to me. " The author includes a petition for rescue "I desperately long for your deliverance. I find hope in your word. " and a piece of wisdom "The arrogant dig pits to trap me, which violates your law. " Strength from hope based on an eternal perspective is reasonable "All your commands are reliable ... They have almost destroyed me here on the earth, but I do not reject your precepts. " The creation is not the equal of the Creator "I realize that everything has its limits, but your commands are beyond full comprehension. " God's truth is valuable "Your word is a lamp to walk by, and a light to illumine my path. " A right response "O Lord, please accept the freewill offerings of my praise! " And the author concluded with a final petition "I have wandered off like a lost sheep. Come looking for your servant, for I do not forget your commands. " Interaction Consider As is present throughout the Psalms is again the theme of confidence in the Lord, despite ones circumstances. Discuss Why would the author ask the Lord God to turn his eyes away from what is worthless? Couldn't he do that himself? Reflect Is it not still the case that some in fellowships "... dig pits to trap" others in order to make themselves look better to other people, which violates the teaching of the Bible -- to help those who stumble and to ourselves be humble? Share When have you wandered off like a lost sheep? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a time when you wandered off like a lost sheep and He came looking for you. Action: Today I will give praise to the Lord God for His loving care. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Psalms 120 - 134 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parrisdc at gmail.com Tue May 17 10:04:06 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:04:06 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> References: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Message-ID: Funny, I have never understood the 'universal' church in such literal terms as in universal = same physical experience. I have always and only ever understood the 'universal' church as refering to the one body of Christ - that is, all Christians, all over the world, each with their own very localized experiences. Just as a physical body has a means by which it is held together, we believers have a means by which we are held together - the Holy Spirit. A physical local experience does not preclude a supernatural universal experience. Each of us is part of the universal body of Christ. Blessings, Don On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 21:31, wrote: > Well, if you look up the word "catholic" in Webster's, it is "universal." > > But, from what I can read, and understand from God's Holy Word, the church > is in no way shape or form universal. It is local, and very visible. > > If the church was universal, in order to discipline one, ie, 1 Cor 7, how > on earth could the universal church agree to meet in one location, would > there be enough hotel rooms for them in that location? Would they all be > able to meet in the invisible church that is meeting there? Along with the > invisible ushers, invisible pews, invisible song books, invisible song > leader, invisible musical instruments, invisible pastor, invisible choir, > then to have a invisible meeting with invisible minutes being invisibly read > by a invisible clerk, treasures report being read by a invisible treasure, > which the invisible ushers collected in the invisible collection platers? > > Sorry, I have gotten off track a little bit....But to have a universal, > invisible church is invariably impossible. Look at Revelation. Were there > not seven stars in Christ's hand, representative of seven churches that John > was to send letters to? This is the basis of my above rant. Sorry, it just > can not happen. > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Christopher Rose wrote: > > The problem with an answer like that is that is dodges the issue. The same >> has been said of predestination. I have been through many debates regarding >> end time prophecy and predestination over the course of the last ten to >> fifteen years. Most of them end with me being told that if I don't believe >> as they do, then I am not a Christian. However, these are the things that >> Christians should discuss so that we may truly be one universal Christan >> church (the ancient texts say "catholic", but I know some get worked up over >> that term). If the whole of the Christian church can truly come together on >> a universal set of doctrinal statements regarding what we believe in all >> these arenas, then we will have the best set of evangelical tools ever. Thus >> our ever present and perpetual need for pastors, teachers, and theologians. >> Through study, discussion, and prayer we can give the church a single >> unified voice and body. However, it also means touching issues we find >> distasteful and would rather dodge, such as end time prophecy and >> predestination (oddly, these two doctrines are somewhat closely related, but >> that is a discourse for another time). >> >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Christopher L. Rose >> >> >> >> May 15, 2011 01:31:34 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> >> =========================================== >> >> My first ministry-mentor did not like getting tangled up in doctrinal >> debates so his take was "I am an O-Millenialist." and when pressed >> to explain he'd say "Oh well, whatever God decides to do is fine >> with me." >> >> ;-) >> >> Christopher Rose wrote: >>> The statistics I've heard say that most of the Christians throughout >>> the world are amillenialists. I just happen to be one of them. >>> >> >> -- >> >> Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, >> Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! >> David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com >> Bible Resources: http://bible.org >> Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 >> Defend free speech or lose your freedom. >> I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 17 10:42:11 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:42:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD28943.9030303@bibleseven.com> Don, you have it correct. The 'universal church' merely refers to the eternally-connected body of genuinely-saved people, nothing more. The 'universal-church' does not meet nor discipline nor anything else in this world. The Apostle Paul and Peter and John all addressed the practicalities of the local/physical gathering of sub-groups for accountability, caring, discipleship, evangelistic-missions, fellowship, prayer, and praise/worship from among those who are 'members' of the eternal 'universal church'. Yes, the list I ust threw together in the prior paragraph is overlapping, it's only for the purpose of illustration ... just so a new thread does not spawn about it! ;-) > Funny, I have never understood the 'universal' church in such literal > terms as in universal = same physical experience. I have always and > only ever understood the 'universal' church as refering to the one > body of Christ - that is, all Christians, all over the world, each > with their own very localized experiences. Just as a physical body > has a means by which it is held together, we believers have a means > by which we are held together - the Holy Spirit. A physical local > experience does not preclude a supernatural universal experience. > Each of us is part of the universal body of Christ. > > Blessings, Don -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 17 10:55:30 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:55:30 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> References: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD28C62.4070803@bibleseven.com> They are not alone in this but the Willow Creek and Saddleback models have promoted a destructive confusion between believers- gathered and outreach. Absent an intentional time for believers to gather - a fellowship is badly weakened. The SBC model has sort of shoved that off to Sunday evening, but that has typically been opened to anyone and is generally very poorly attended because families are transitioning to preparation for an early Monday & the school and work week. Sunday evening 'service' in the SBC appears to be an anachronism of agricultural days that tradition-bound folks refuse to release - even as they are incapable of justifying it. It is kind of a superstitious thing with them. Sunday School prior to celebration/service/whatever is the large gathering of the fellowship also makes little sense. The pastor presents the key theme and then the fellowship processes it in small group *after* makes more sense. Again, forget about convincing the tradition-bound folks to see the wisdom - it's like trying to get the Pope to alter a RC ritual practice. ;-) > htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Yeah, find a church that teaches the Bible, 'as it is written' not > according to what they believe, and local, visible church. One that > holds to baptism by immersion, and local congregation taking > communion, no visitors allowed, no one who you don't know allowed > either. If this doctrine is violated, then it is not a local, visible > New Testament Church. Can;t get much simplier than that! -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue May 17 11:13:57 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:13:57 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Church is local AND universal. Message-ID: I am honoroed to teach courses on ecclesiology in seminaries and Bible schools in Mexico, the Carribean and Asia. We teach BOTH concepts of the Church: 1. The world-wide (universal) Body of Christ.. 2. The local church (regional congregations). Both concepts are clearly seen in the New Testament. My 2 pesos' worth. Dr. Steve central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6129 (20110517) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue May 17 11:15:17 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:15:17 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD28C62.4070803@bibleseven.com> References: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> <4DD28C62.4070803@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: > They are not alone in this but the Willow Creek and Saddleback > models have promoted a destructive confusion between believers- > gathered and outreach. In my opinion, I have learned a lot of good things from these two pastors (Bill Hybels of Willow Creek, and Rick Warren of Saddleback). However, in many areas, they have also promoted a very American model of church that has no basis in the New Testament model. For example: Hiring new leadership from outside, as opposed to Paul's model of birthing, discipling, mentoring and empowering. My 2 pesos' worth. Dr. Steve Central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6129 (20110517) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From parrisdc at gmail.com Tue May 17 11:15:35 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:15:35 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD20603.6060303@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <45754300-5EAD-4EA4-8C45-C9999024172E@ofb.biz> <392119.14877.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD20603.6060303@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 01:22, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 05/16/2011 06:39 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: > > I think the trap here would be to become like people say the Unitarians are. > (never met Unitarians) Where they accept any belief anyone has as something be > right or acceptable to God when these sins are clearly marked out in the Bible > as being wrong such as saying that God is ok with people being Gay / Lesiban and > that it's all part of His plan. That is blasphemy. I've heard of agreements > between Churches before where they have to conform to the Bible as a standard > and that as long as it's in there or is not something the Bible speaks against > it's accepted at community functions. > > > Well, Unitarians will pray to "whom it concerns", or close to that because > they aren't > sure "who" it is. > > Fred > > Actually, Unitarians believe something more along the lines of whatever you believe is ok with me" - that interfaith worship is a good thing. I think it's vitally important that we respect the rights of others to believe as they do. I am even willing to visit the services of another faith (funeral of a Jewish friend, for example, or as a learning experience) but I tend to draw the line at actively worshiping with those of another faith. As far as denominations go, the Disciples of Christ probably have what I consider to be one of the better approaches. And even they have their own problems. I do like the idea of church networks or associations. I like the idea of a network of house churches. Too much or too little accountability among churches can lead to abuse. I contend that there needs to be a balance. Now, just where a given person finds that balance to be is surely up for grabs. :-) A local church here, Steele Creek Church of Charlotte, meets for worship on Sundays, but carries out communion and fellowship at the homes of believers - creating a balance between time at home and in the church. The believers gather as Home Fellowship Groups. This church participates with a group of other churches to support missionary efforts at home and abroad. They have believers from over 40 nations. Blessings, Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 17 11:33:53 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:33:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> <4DD28C62.4070803@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD29561.8040605@bibleseven.com> From my pitiful Spanglish "Muy bueno!" ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am honoroed to teach courses on ecclesiology in seminaries and Bible schools in Mexico, the Carribean and Asia. We teach BOTH concepts of the Church: 1. The world-wide (universal) Body of Christ.. 2. The local church (regional congregations). Both concepts are clearly seen in the New Testament. My 2 pesos' worth. Dr. Steve central old Mexico >> They are not alone in this but the Willow Creek and Saddleback >> models have promoted a destructive confusion between believers- >> gathered and outreach. > > In my opinion, I have learned a lot of good things from these two > pastors (Bill Hybels of Willow Creek, and Rick Warren of Saddleback). > However, in many areas, they have also promoted a very American model > of church that has no basis in the New Testament model. For example: > Hiring new leadership from outside, as opposed to Paul's model of > birthing, discipling, mentoring and empowering. > > My 2 pesos' worth. > > Dr. Steve > Central old Mexico > > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue May 17 11:55:09 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:55:09 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil Message-ID: And don't forget the PDF and audio book floating around on various download sites: "Is Obama the Antichrist?" Dr. Steve Central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6129 (20110517) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 13:50:54 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:50:54 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD2B57E.2020805@mindblowingidea.com> I think when Jesus was on earth in human form he was the head of a perfect Church run the perfect way. His followers didn't understand Him at the time but I believe His ministry was perfect. After He ascended the whole church structure formed and denominations were created. There was the Church of Apollos who bragged because they followed Paul. Others followed Christ's teachings. This is where the break down in Churches started. I think the Church that existed before Churches were established was the correct model. "So you don't want to go to Church anymore" read that. On 05/16/2011 03:56 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > This is kinda out of full context - please add the considerable teaching > about "elders" and the Biblical *gift* of teaching - then try to > reassemble > the construct - if you would? > > Is there someone or some book(s) you are hearing or reading that has > prompted you along this path, please? > > Humans mature at different rates, learn in different ways, and require a > social 'container' to keep them from anarchy. > > There is a reason why Jesus taught us to honor and obey 'leaders'. > > We met for a brief while with some 'home fellowship' folks who > took the no leader(s) and no agenda view - it was a mess because > when one creates a vacuum -- the enemy-manipulated flesh fills it. > > Think of the intertestamental period "Where each did as he saw > best." > > Also note in the NT: > > Jesus was a teacher. > > Paul was a teacher. > > Peter was a teacher. > > John was a teacher. > > Timothy was a teacher. > > Titus was a teacher. > > And others ... > > And they were instructed to multiply themselves, to create > structures for accountability and order within the fellowships. > > There simply is no Biblical way to justify a boundary-free > and/or structure-free Biblical fellowship. > > OTOH, to build a fellowship where the boundaries and structure > do not "wag the dog" of Bible learning and Biblical living is an > equal challenge. > > We have worked inside cell, house, home, and a wide variety > of associational fellowships -- they were *all* imperfect. > > The best were always where those with leadership gifts and > responsibilities viewed themselves as coaches and mentors > rather than as celebrities and/or dictators. > >> 8 ?But you are not to be called ?Rabbi,? for you have one Teacher, >> and you are all brothers. 9 And do not call anyone on earth ?father,? >> for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10 Nor are you to be >> called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Messiah. 11 The >> greatest among you will be your servant. 12 For those who exalt >> themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be >> exalted." What Church follows this and calls everyone brother? >> >> That's what I call Open Source Christianity. > > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 13:55:09 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:55:09 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> References: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD2B67D.9040300@mindblowingidea.com> The original definition of Catholic and the continued meaning of Catholic in the Nicene Creed is Unity or Unified or United. We are united as one body in Christ. It's a great concept but the Catholic Church isn't the United Church because if it was everyone would belong there. We are all one body of Christ all united as part of Christ's one Holy Church. We are his bride not brides. We are all one and if someone is not part of the united body of Christ then they are not part of Christ's body but part of the body of division / Satan. Your either for Him or against him. Satan means adversary. Do you oppose Christ or support Christ? I'm not directing this at you I'm just saying that is what it means by one Catholic (united) Holy and Apostolic Church. On 05/16/2011 06:31 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Well, if you look up the word "catholic" in Webster's, it is "universal." > > But, from what I can read, and understand from God's Holy Word, the > church is in no way shape or form universal. It is local, and very > visible. > > If the church was universal, in order to discipline one, ie, 1 Cor 7, > how on earth could the universal church agree to meet in one location, > would there be enough hotel rooms for them in that location? Would > they all be able to meet in the invisible church that is meeting > there? Along with the invisible ushers, invisible pews, invisible song > books, invisible song leader, invisible musical instruments, invisible > pastor, invisible choir, then to have a invisible meeting with > invisible minutes being invisibly read by a invisible clerk, treasures > report being read by a invisible treasure, which the invisible ushers > collected in the invisible collection platers? > > Sorry, I have gotten off track a little bit....But to have a > universal, invisible church is invariably impossible. Look at > Revelation. Were there not seven stars in Christ's hand, > representative of seven churches that John was to send letters to? > This is the basis of my above rant. Sorry, it just can not happen. > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:20 PM, Christopher Rose wrote: > >> The problem with an answer like that is that is dodges the issue. The >> same has been said of predestination. I have been through many >> debates regarding end time prophecy and predestination over the >> course of the last ten to fifteen years. Most of them end with me >> being told that if I don't believe as they do, then I am not a >> Christian. However, these are the things that Christians should >> discuss so that we may truly be one universal Christan church (the >> ancient texts say "catholic", but I know some get worked up over that >> term). If the whole of the Christian church can truly come together >> on a universal set of doctrinal statements regarding what we believe >> in all these arenas, then we will have the best set of evangelical >> tools ever. Thus our ever present and perpetual need for pastors, >> teachers, and theologians. Through study, discussion, and prayer we >> can give the church a single unified voice and body. However, it also >> means touching issues we find distasteful and would rather dodge, >> such as end time prophecy and predestination (oddly, these two >> doctrines are somewhat closely related, but that is a discourse for >> another time). >> >> Respectfully, >> >> Christopher L. Rose >> >> >> >> May 15, 2011 01:31:34 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> >> =========================================== >> >> My first ministry-mentor did not like getting tangled up in doctrinal >> debates so his take was "I am an O-Millenialist." and when pressed >> to explain he'd say "Oh well, whatever God decides to do is fine >> with me." >> >> ;-) >> >>> Christopher Rose wrote: >>> The statistics I've heard say that most of the Christians throughout >>> the world are amillenialists. I just happen to be one of them. >> >> -- >> >> Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, >> Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! >> David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com >> Bible Resources: http://bible.org >> Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 >> Defend free speech or lose your freedom. >> I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 13:56:18 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 10:56:18 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> References: <4255be08.91114.12ffb9fd5f3.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD2B6C2.2010303@mindblowingidea.com> Your kidding right? On 05/16/2011 06:44 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Yeah, find a church that teaches the Bible, 'as it is written' not > according to what they believe, and local, visible church. One that > holds to baptism by immersion, and local congregation taking > communion, no visitors allowed, no one who you don't know allowed > either. If this doctrine is violated, then it is not a local, visible > New Testament Church. Can;t get much simplier than that! > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 11:03 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE > wrote: > >> I need some advice. >> >> >> I'm trying to figure out how to become more non-denominational and >> base everything on my relationship with God, the Spirit, and the Bible. >> I'm trying to unlearn theology. >> Anyone got any resources? >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue May 17 16:31:40 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 15:31:40 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The Universal Church (was Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction?) In-Reply-To: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> References: <8a2322b.90e5c.12ffb9459c7.Webtop.44@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <571C5328-B573-41C7-8793-5EA464346351@ofb.biz> On May 16, 2011, at 8:31 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Well, if you look up the word "catholic" in Webster's, it is "universal." > > But, from what I can read, and understand from God's Holy Word, the church is in no way shape or form universal. It is local, and very visible. Here are some passages that help to argue for a universal Church: "For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another." (Rom. 12.4-5) "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body?Jews or Greeks, slaves or free?and all were made to drink of one Spirit." (1 Cor. 12.12-13) "There is one body and one Spirit?just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call? one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." (Eph. 4.4-6) Notice that Paul includes himself in these discussions -- "we" not "you" -- despite the fact that he does not belong to the local churches in any of these cases, most particularly the church in Rome, which he had never visited prior to the writing of the Epistle to the Romans. Also, think of Rom. 11. We are engrafted into the one "olive tree" of the People of God. We are not many trees, but a single one, made into the spiritual children of Abraham (see also Gal. 3.28-29). This is why there has never been a significant trend in the Church to view the Church as exclusively local. From the earliest days, through the medieval times, through the Reformation all the way until American individualism, there was a recognition that we are the Church, citizens of the Kingdom of God. It was really our American forefathers' rugged individualism from which this notion sprang. -Tim From parrisdc at gmail.com Tue May 17 17:24:12 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:24:12 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: When John wrote his first epistle, he mentioned that many anti-christs had already come. Is there really a super antichrist? But if not Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer, then that Stephen Hawking guy. :-p On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:55, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. < proyectopuente at hotmail.com> wrote: > And don't forget the PDF and audio book floating around on various > download sites: "Is Obama the Antichrist?" > > Dr. Steve > Central old Mexico > > > __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas > de virus 6129 (20110517) __________ > > ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. > > http://www.eset.com > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 14:12:09 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:12:09 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <45754300-5EAD-4EA4-8C45-C9999024172E@ofb.biz> <392119.14877.qm@web1113.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD20603.6060303@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DD2BA79.4030606@mindblowingidea.com> God's perfect model from the beginning and one he suggested man reinstitute time and time again in the Bible was Him being our God and us being His people with no one in-between. The Jews picked a king when God said it was a bad idea. People are to resolve disputes among themselves before God but rather go to a 3rd party to get them to take sides and God talks about appointing Judges in the Bible. The pattern is to be accountable to Him. On 05/17/2011 08:15 AM, Don Parris wrote: > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 01:22, Fred A. Miller > wrote: > > On 05/16/2011 06:39 PM, USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE wrote: >> I think the trap here would be to become like people say the Unitarians are. >> (never met Unitarians) Where they accept any belief anyone has as something be >> right or acceptable to God when these sins are clearly marked out in the Bible >> as being wrong such as saying that God is ok with people being Gay / Lesiban and >> that it's all part of His plan. That is blasphemy. I've heard of agreements >> between Churches before where they have to conform to the Bible as a standard >> and that as long as it's in there or is not something the Bible speaks against >> it's accepted at community functions. > > Well, Unitarians will pray to "whom it concerns", or close to that > because they aren't > sure "who" it is. > > Fred > > > Actually, Unitarians believe something more along the lines of > whatever you believe is ok with me" - that interfaith worship is a > good thing. I think it's vitally important that we respect the rights > of others to believe as they do. I am even willing to visit the > services of another faith (funeral of a Jewish friend, for example, or > as a learning experience) but I tend to draw the line at actively > worshiping with those of another faith. > > As far as denominations go, the Disciples of Christ probably have what > I consider to be one of the better approaches. And even they have > their own problems. I do like the idea of church networks or > associations. I like the idea of a network of house churches. Too > much or too little accountability among churches can lead to abuse. I > contend that there needs to be a balance. Now, just where a given > person finds that balance to be is surely up for grabs. :-) > > A local church here, Steele Creek Church of Charlotte, meets for > worship on Sundays, but carries out communion and fellowship at the > homes of believers - creating a balance between time at home and in > the church. The believers gather as Home Fellowship Groups. This > church participates with a group of other churches to support > missionary efforts at home and abroad. They have believers from over > 40 nations. > > Blessings, > Don > -- > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 17 17:53:35 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:53:35 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD2B57E.2020805@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> <4DD2B57E.2020805@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD2EE5F.2020709@bibleseven.com> The problem is that your "thinking" cannot be reconciled with the Biblical 'canon'. You appear to be "Criticizing the Bible with a pen knife ..." as John Stott has put it, you are ignoring significant Biblical text in an effort to 'proof-text' what you want the Word of God to say. That is poor scholarship and will lead you to wrong understanding and action. The text of the Bible instructs that we have structure. Period. BTW: Some people tried to make of Paul an idol, others tried to make of Apollos an idol, and they were chastized by Paul for so doing. These are hard teachings for some but they are Biblical. > usacomputertech wrote: > I think when Jesus was on earth in human form he was the head of a > perfect Church run the perfect way. His followers didn't understand > Him at the time but I believe His ministry was perfect. > > After He ascended the whole church structure formed and denominations > were created. There was the Church of Apollos who bragged because > they followed Paul. Others followed Christ's teachings. This is where > the break down in Churches started. I think the Church that existed > before Churches were established was the correct model. > > "So you don't want to go to Church anymore" read that. > > On 05/16/2011 03:56 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > This is kinda out of full context - please add the considerable > > teaching about "elders" and the Biblical *gift* of teaching - then > > try to reassemble the construct - if you would? > > > > Is there someone or some book(s) you are hearing or reading that > > has prompted you along this path, please? > > > > Humans mature at different rates, learn in different ways, and > > require a social 'container' to keep them from anarchy. > > > > There is a reason why Jesus taught us to honor and obey 'leaders'. > > > > We met for a brief while with some 'home fellowship' folks who took > > the no leader(s) and no agenda view - it was a mess because when > > one creates a vacuum -- the enemy-manipulated flesh fills it. > > > > Think of the intertestamental period "Where each did as he saw > > best." > > > > Also note in the NT: > > > > Jesus was a teacher. > > > > Paul was a teacher. > > > > Peter was a teacher. > > > > John was a teacher. > > > > Timothy was a teacher. > > > > Titus was a teacher. > > > > And others ... > > > > And they were instructed to multiply themselves, to create > > structures for accountability and order within the fellowships. > > > > There simply is no Biblical way to justify a boundary-free and/or > > structure-free Biblical fellowship. > > > > OTOH, to build a fellowship where the boundaries and structure do > > not "wag the dog" of Bible learning and Biblical living is an equal > > challenge. > > > > We have worked inside cell, house, home, and a wide variety of > > associational fellowships -- they were *all* imperfect. > > > > The best were always where those with leadership gifts and > > responsibilities viewed themselves as coaches and mentors rather > > than as celebrities and/or dictators. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 14:06:11 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 11:06:11 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> I've heard this a lot about needing to be accountable to someone. I think that we all need to be accountable to God personally. God is Just and always exposes the truth to light. On 05/16/2011 10:10 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > On May 16, 2011, at 5:49 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> Perhaps my perspective is different, having left a particular denomination after 15 years because of a lack of central authority (or precised thereof) and joined one with a stronger central governmant. It really is a two edged sword.... much like the debates between Luther and Erasmus. > Agreed. I too departed a weak structured denomination for a much more centralized one. Frankly, humans are too sinful for independent churches much of the time. The pastor (or other leaders) face too many temptations to grasp for power and there is little to keep them accountable. I think it is Biblical for there to be the accountability of other churches upon the individual churches... Just as in, say, Acts 15. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue May 17 19:09:00 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 18:09:00 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> Being accountable personally to God is a given, but it doesn't allow me to be a rouge servant and dishonor the authority God has in place. Unless the authority is asking me to do something that is in direct confrontation with God's laws, (not just "I don't like it") I don't have a problem submitting to authority. I am an associate pastor in my Church and I am 100% amenable to the Senior Pastor. Unless he is asking me to break God's laws and do something unethical, he is in charge. Do I always agree with this path? No, I try and treat him and his office with the same respect that I would want shown to me. And if he were to act in such an unrighteous manor, I would see the next higher in command (the Bishop or Superintendent in most protestant Churches) as is proper. The first century Church most certainly had a hierarchy in place. 1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Peter 2:13--17 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. Sincerely, -- bstaggs <>< On 5/17/2011 1:06 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > I've heard this a lot about needing to be accountable to someone. I > think that we all need to be accountable to God personally. God is > Just and always exposes the truth to light. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 19:44:24 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 16:44:24 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD2EE5F.2020709@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <293396.19076.qm@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AB9C.2000602@bibleseven.com> <4DD2B57E.2020805@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD2EE5F.2020709@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD30858.4020704@mindblowingidea.com> God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. All throughout scripture God follows the same pattern / nature. I think to the masses God seemed more distant in the Old Testimant however the lessons were the same. To me the Old Testimant was more physical than spiritual and the new testimant was more spiritual than physical. I think the model in the old testimony of God as the leader and having no King is in direct relation to when Jesus was the head of the Church on earth and everyone went straight to Him. Then in Matthew 23 Jesus explains how God is our leader, rabbi, and Father. Later in Matthew 23 Jesus said he would send teachers, wise men, and prophets to the stiff necked (because they were stiff necked and wouldn't listen to God) and so to me it appears that the only time leaders are needed are when we refuse to submit to God's authority and direction for our lives when He makes it clear to us. The Pharisees saw Jesus' miracles, and the Father made Jesus the High Priest and said "This Is My Son In Whom I Am Well Pleased" the same way the priests were set in place before by their fathers. It was obvious that Jesus was who He said He was after all He is the I AM, the He Is Who He Says He Is. There was no disputing that. They chose not to accept it because they were stiff necked. So if this is all true then how many of us are stiff necked and don't have the courage or desire to follow God's will for us? How many of us have the courage to confront our own Churches and or leave them while in search for the Truth? What did Jesus say would happen to the wise men, teachers, and prophets who would be sent to the stiff necked to show them the way? Matthew 23:33-39 ^33 "You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?^34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.^35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.^36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation. ^37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.^38 Look, your house is left to you desolate.^39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'^[c ] " So what happens when God gives us wisdom and sends us as teachers, wise men, and or prophets into our own communities and wants us to confront these issues? What do you expect the reaction will be? Is it the same as these scriptures? If yes then we must be doing it right. These are hard teachings for some but they are Biblical. On 05/17/2011 02:53 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > The problem is that your "thinking" cannot be reconciled with the > Biblical 'canon'. > > You appear to be "Criticizing the Bible with a pen knife ..." as John > Stott has put it, you are ignoring significant Biblical text in an effort > to 'proof-text' what you want the Word of God to say. That is poor > scholarship and will lead you to wrong understanding and action. > > The text of the Bible instructs that we have structure. Period. > > BTW: Some people tried to make of Paul an idol, others tried to > make of Apollos an idol, and they were chastized by Paul for so > doing. > > These are hard teachings for some but they are Biblical. > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> I think when Jesus was on earth in human form he was the head of a >> perfect Church run the perfect way. His followers didn't understand >> Him at the time but I believe His ministry was perfect. >> >> After He ascended the whole church structure formed and denominations >> were created. There was the Church of Apollos who bragged because >> they followed Paul. Others followed Christ's teachings. This is where >> the break down in Churches started. I think the Church that existed >> before Churches were established was the correct model. >> >> "So you don't want to go to Church anymore" read that. >> >> On 05/16/2011 03:56 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> > This is kinda out of full context - please add the considerable >> > teaching about "elders" and the Biblical *gift* of teaching - then >> > try to reassemble the construct - if you would? >> > >> > Is there someone or some book(s) you are hearing or reading that >> > has prompted you along this path, please? >> > >> > Humans mature at different rates, learn in different ways, and >> > require a social 'container' to keep them from anarchy. >> > >> > There is a reason why Jesus taught us to honor and obey 'leaders'. >> > >> > We met for a brief while with some 'home fellowship' folks who took >> > the no leader(s) and no agenda view - it was a mess because when >> > one creates a vacuum -- the enemy-manipulated flesh fills it. >> > >> > Think of the intertestamental period "Where each did as he saw >> > best." >> > >> > Also note in the NT: >> > >> > Jesus was a teacher. >> > >> > Paul was a teacher. >> > >> > Peter was a teacher. >> > >> > John was a teacher. >> > >> > Timothy was a teacher. >> > >> > Titus was a teacher. >> > >> > And others ... >> > >> > And they were instructed to multiply themselves, to create >> > structures for accountability and order within the fellowships. >> > >> > There simply is no Biblical way to justify a boundary-free and/or >> > structure-free Biblical fellowship. >> > >> > OTOH, to build a fellowship where the boundaries and structure do >> > not "wag the dog" of Bible learning and Biblical living is an equal >> > challenge. >> > >> > We have worked inside cell, house, home, and a wide variety of >> > associational fellowships -- they were *all* imperfect. >> > >> > The best were always where those with leadership gifts and >> > responsibilities viewed themselves as coaches and mentors rather >> > than as celebrities and/or dictators. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 17 20:04:52 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 17:04:52 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> Indeed this is the correct way to resolve conflicts as is stated in the New Testimony but that does not mean it's the correct way to follow God's will. God speaks to us all threw others and we are to respect our family and authorities, however we no longer live under the old testimony law but are held to a higher standard. Often times in my life and the lives of people I know God will tell us to do something bold that requires faith and courage and often times no one around us agrees with what we are doing even if some of them support us physically and financially. "^36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" ^37 Jesus replied:"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'^[c ] ^38 This is the first and greatest commandment.^39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'^[d ] ^40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." " To love the Lord with all my heart, soul, and mind I must seek Him and follow all of his commandments even if those commandments aren't written in the Bible. God has commanded me personally not to belong to any denomination. If my Pastor should ask me to study Lutheran Doctrine / Theology I must and have rejected it because God does not want me to pollute my mind with it. God wants a blank canvis to paint on so he doesn't have to paint over errors in the painting. I respect my Pastor and my family. I will do whatever they ask so long as it does not violate what the Lord wants me to do. I have found my Parents ask me to do things without seeking God first and asking Him if it's the right choice for me in accordance with His will. Some have told me they think the greatest sin is not seeking God and trying to figure it out yourself. I value the opinions of others, listen, and consider it all, but for as many good ideas as I hear I must reject most of them because "There is a way that appears to be right to man,but in the end it leads to death." Who knows what God's will is other than the person who hears it, who has sought God out for their answer? If you are seeking God's truth and His Spirit reveals His instruction to you and people around you say that you should not do what God has asked you to do what should you do? 1 Corinthians 3:18 ^18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become "fools" so that you may become wise. On 05/17/2011 04:09 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Being accountable personally to God is a given, but it doesn't allow > me to be a rouge servant and dishonor the authority God has in place. > Unless the authority is asking me to do something that is in direct > confrontation with God's laws, (not just "I don't like it") I don't > have a problem submitting to authority. I am an associate pastor in > my Church and I am 100% amenable to the Senior Pastor. Unless he is > asking me to break God's laws and do something unethical, he is in > charge. Do I always agree with this path? No, I try and treat him and > his office with the same respect that I would want shown to me. And > if he were to act in such an unrighteous manor, I would see the next > higher in command (the Bishop or Superintendent in most protestant > Churches) as is proper. The first century Church most certainly had a > hierarchy in place. > > 1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order. > > > 1 Peter 2:13--17 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the > Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto > governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of > evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the > will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance > of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of > maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the > brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. > > > Sincerely, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 5/17/2011 1:06 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >> I've heard this a lot about needing to be accountable to someone. I >> think that we all need to be accountable to God personally. God is >> Just and always exposes the truth to light. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue May 17 21:06:11 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 20:06:11 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <1594A29F-597A-43EE-8F5B-CA0709868C70@ofb.biz> On May 17, 2011, at 1:06 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > I've heard this a lot about needing to be accountable to someone. I think that we all need to be accountable to God personally. God is Just and always exposes the truth to light. Paul (and the other New Testament writers) are clear on accountability. Jesus and Paul lay out the methods of church discipline (think Matthew 18, 1 Cor. 5). Accountability is necessary and biblical. Saying we are accountable to God sounds good and is a very "spiritual" answer, but the problem is -- while it is true -- we can get away with a lot of things in the time between now and our death. The fallen, sinful heart is too prone to sin to go on without accountability. Accountability keeps us tied to pure doctrine and helps us both be morally strong and recover when we fall into sin. That's why God gave us the great cloud of witnesses (Heb. 11). -Tim From htgage3 at chartermi.net Tue May 17 22:00:00 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:00:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] The Universal Church (was Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction?) Message-ID: <5040f543.9f670.13000d4beae.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Tim, you've got to remember one thing....When Paul wrote these passages, by the direction of the Holy Spirit, there were no other kinds of churches! The catholic church wasn't started until Constantine, 310-312 AD, somewhere in there. That is why Paul wrote like that and used the kind of language that he did. These will definately go along with the passages that you used, :-) ok? On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > On May 16, 2011, at 8:31 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > >> Well, if you look up the word "catholic" in Webster's, it is >> "universal." >> >> But, from what I can read, and understand from God's Holy Word, the >> church is in no way shape or form universal. It is local, and very >> visible. > > Here are some passages that help to argue for a universal Church: > > "For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all > have the same function, so we, though many, are one body in Christ, > and individually members one of another." (Rom. 12.4-5) > > "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members > of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in > one Spirit we were all baptized into one body?Jews or Greeks, slaves > or free?and all were made to drink of one Spirit." (1 Cor. 12.12-13) > > "There is one body and one Spirit?just as you were called to the one > hope that belongs to your call? one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one > God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all." > (Eph. 4.4-6) > > Notice that Paul includes himself in these discussions -- "we" not > "you" -- despite the fact that he does not belong to the local > churches in any of these cases, most particularly the church in Rome, > which he had never visited prior to the writing of the Epistle to the > Romans. > > Also, think of Rom. 11. We are engrafted into the one "olive tree" of > the People of God. We are not many trees, but a single one, made into > the spiritual children of Abraham (see also Gal. 3.28-29). > This is why there has never been a significant trend in the Church to > view the Church as exclusively local. From the earliest days, through > the medieval times, through the Reformation all the way until American > individualism, there was a recognition that we are the Church, > citizens of the Kingdom of God. It was really our American > forefathers' rugged individualism from which this notion sprang. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From htgage3 at chartermi.net Tue May 17 22:01:41 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:01:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil Message-ID: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Yeah, and he is, from what Scripture says, part Jew and a lot of Gentile, and most likely homosexual. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Don Parris wrote: > When John wrote his first epistle, he mentioned that many anti-christs > had > already come. Is there really a super antichrist? > > But if not Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer, then that Stephen Hawking guy. > :-p > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 11:55, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. < > proyectopuente at hotmail.com> wrote: > >> And don't forget the PDF and audio book floating around on various >> download sites: "Is Obama the Antichrist?" >> >> Dr. Steve >> Central old Mexico >> >> >> __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de >> firmas >> de virus 6129 (20110517) __________ >> >> ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. >> >> http://www.eset.com >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> >> > > > -- > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 17 22:07:26 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:07:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD329DE.1040508@bibleseven.com> Who? BTW: Isn't "I'm-a-dinner-jacket" Persian? > htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Yeah, and he is, from what Scripture says, part Jew and a lot of > Gentile, and most likely homosexual. > > > On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Don Parris wrote: > > > When John wrote his first epistle, he mentioned that many > > anti-christs had already come. Is there really a super > > antichrist? > > > > But if not Bill Gates or Steve Ballmer, then that Stephen Hawking > > guy. :-p -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From htgage3 at chartermi.net Tue May 17 22:14:46 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 22:14:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. Message-ID: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Billy, this is something that I don't understand. We have one vote, one person. Meaning one vote for one person. I cannot see in Scripture where there is a higher command in place. Elder, pastor, bishop are all the same office. The one who leads the church is the pastor, as God leads him. If he wants to be a rogue, and do differnetly than what God wants, the church as a whole suffers. I've seen it happen is a church that I used to belong to, this guy was in there before we moved our membership there. This guy had gotten mad at me several times when he had me to fill his pulpit. I truly feel sorry for him, but he did do the church hurt, and he paid for it in other areas, and ways. Sorry, I just son't see where the first church had the hierarchy in there. Hey, just noticed something, If anywhere, there in any of mny replies to this list, in the forwarded part, there is any added stuff, please forgive me, as I am using a netbook, and it it junping all over! I never know where that cursor is going to go when I hit something like a shift key or whatever else. On Tue, May 17, 2011 at 7:09 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote > Being accountable personally to God is a given, but it doesn't allow > me to be a rouge servant and dishonor the authority God has in place. > Unless the authority is asking me to do something that is in direct > confrontation with God's laws, (not just "I don't like it") I don't > have a problem submitting to authority. I am an associate pastor in > my Church and I am 100% amenable to the Senior Pastor. Unless he is > asking me to break God's laws and do something unethical, he is in > charge. Do I always agree with this path? No, I try and treat him and > his office with the same respect that I would want shown to me. And > if he were to act in such an unrighteous manor, I would see the next > higher in command (the Bishop or Superintendent in most protestant > Churches) as is proper. The first century Church most certainly had a > hierarchy in place. > > 1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order. > > > 1 Peter 2:13--17 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the > Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto > governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of > evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the > will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance > of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of > maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the > brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king. > > > Sincerely, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 5/17/2011 1:06 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >> I've heard this a lot about needing to be accountable to someone. I >> think that we all need to be accountable to God personally. God is >> Just and always exposes the truth to light. >> > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue May 17 22:24:34 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 21:24:34 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The Universal Church (was Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction?) In-Reply-To: <5040f543.9f670.13000d4beae.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> References: <5040f543.9f670.13000d4beae.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Message-ID: On May 17, 2011, at 9:00 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Tim, you've got to remember one thing....When Paul wrote these passages, by the direction of the Holy Spirit, there were no other kinds of churches! The catholic church wasn't started until Constantine, 310-312 AD, somewhere in there. That is why Paul wrote like that and used the kind of language that he did. These will definately go along with the passages that you used, :-) ok? I agree. :-) -Tim From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 17 23:27:52 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:27:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Psalms 120 - 134 Message-ID: <4DD33CB8.8000700@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Psalms 120 - 134 Psalm 120 120:1 A song of ascents. In my distress I cried out to the Lord and he answered me. 120:2 I said, "O Lord, rescue me from those who lie with their lips and those who deceive with their tongue. 120:3 How will he severely punish you, you deceptive talker? 120:4 Here's how! With the sharp arrows of warriors, with arrowheads forged over the hot coals. 120:5 How miserable I am! For I have lived temporarily in Meshech; I have resided among the tents of Kedar. 120:6 For too long I have had to reside with those who hate peace. 120:7 I am committed to peace, but when I speak, they want to make war. Psalm 121 121:1 A song of ascents. I look up toward the hills. From where does my help come? 121:2 My help comes from the Lord, the Creator of heaven and earth! 121:3 May he not allow your foot to slip! May your protector not sleep! 121:4 Look! Israel's protector does not sleep or slumber! 121:5 The Lord is your protector; the Lord is the shade at your right hand. 121:6 The sun will not harm you by day, or the moon by night. 121:7 The Lord will protect you from all harm; he will protect your life. 121:8 The Lord will protect you in all you do, now and forevermore. Psalm 122 122:1 A song of ascents, by David. I was glad because they said to me, "We will go to the Lord's temple." 122:2 Our feet are standing inside your gates, O Jerusalem. 122:3 Jerusalem is a city designed to accommodate an assembly. 122:4 The tribes go up there, the tribes of the Lord, where it is required that Israel give thanks to the name of the Lord. 122:5 Indeed, the leaders sit there on thrones and make legal decisions, on the thrones of the house of David. 122:6 Pray for the peace of Jerusalem! May those who love her prosper! 122:7 May there be peace inside your defenses, and prosperity inside your fortresses! 122:8 For the sake of my brothers and my neighbors I will say, "May there be peace in you!" 122:9 For the sake of the temple of the Lord our God I will pray for you to prosper. Psalm 123 123:1 A song of ascents. I look up toward you, the one enthroned in heaven. 123:2 Look, as the eyes of servants look to the hand of their master, as the eyes of a female servant look to the hand of her mistress, so my eyes will look to the Lord, our God, until he shows us favor. 123:3 Show us favor, O Lord, show us favor! For we have had our fill of humiliation, and then some. 123:4 We have had our fill of the taunts of the self-assured, of the contempt of the proud. Psalm 124 124:1 A song of ascents, by David. "If the Lord had not been on our side" -- let Israel say this! -- 124:2 if the Lord had not been on our side, when men attacked us, 124:3 they would have swallowed us alive, when their anger raged against us. 124:4 The water would have overpowered us; the current would have overwhelmed us. 124:5 The raging water would have overwhelmed us. 124:6 The Lord deserves praise, for he did not hand us over as prey to their teeth. 124:7 We escaped with our lives, like a bird from a hunter's snare. The snare broke, and we escaped. 124:8 Our deliverer is the Lord, the Creator of heaven and earth. Psalm 125 125:1 A song of ascents. Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion; it cannot be upended and will endure forever. 125:2 As the mountains surround Jerusalem, so the Lord surrounds his people, now and forevermore. 125:3 Indeed, the scepter of a wicked king will not settle upon the allotted land of the godly. Otherwise the godly might do what is wrong. 125:4 Do good, O Lord, to those who are good, to the morally upright! 125:5 As for those who are bent on traveling a sinful path, may the Lord remove them, along with those who behave wickedly! May Israel experience peace! Psalm 126 126:1 A song of ascents. When the Lord restored the well-being of Zion, we thought we were dreaming. 126:2 At that time we laughed loudly and shouted for joy. At that time the nations said, "The Lord has accomplished great things for these people." 126:3 The Lord did indeed accomplish great things for us. We were happy. 126:4 O Lord, restore our well-being, just as the streams in the arid south are replenished. 126:5 Those who shed tears as they plant will shout for joy when they reap the harvest. 126:6 The one who weeps as he walks along, carrying his bag of seed, will certainly come in with a shout of joy, carrying his sheaves of grain. Psalm 127 127:1 A song of ascents, by Solomon. If the Lord does not build a house, then those who build it work in vain. If the Lord does not guard a city, then the watchman stands guard in vain. 127:2 It is vain for you to rise early, come home late, and work so hard for your food. Yes, he can provide for those whom he loves even when they sleep. 127:3 Yes, sons are a gift from the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward. 127:4 Sons born during one's youth are like arrows in a warrior's hand. 127:5 How blessed is the man who fills his quiver with them! They will not be put to shame when they confront enemies at the city gate. Psalm 128 128:1 A song of ascents. How blessed is every one of the Lord's loyal followers, each one who keeps his commands! 128:2 You will eat what you worked so hard to grow. You will be blessed and secure. 128:3 Your wife will be like a fruitful vine in the inner rooms of your house; your children will be like olive branches, as they sit all around your table. 128:4 Yes indeed, the man who fears the Lord will be blessed in this way. 128:5 May the Lord bless you from Zion, that you might see Jerusalem prosper all the days of your life, 128:6 and that you might see your grandchildren. May Israel experience peace! Psalm 129 129:1 A song of ascents. "Since my youth they have often attacked me," let Israel say. 129:2 "Since my youth they have often attacked me, but they have not defeated me. 129:3 The plowers plowed my back; they made their furrows long. 129:4 The Lord is just; he cut the ropes of the wicked." 129:5 May all who hate Zion be humiliated and turned back! 129:6 May they be like the grass on the rooftops which withers before one can even pull it up, 129:7 which cannot fill the reaper's hand, or the lap of the one who gathers the grain! 129:8 Those who pass by will not say, "May you experience the Lord's blessing! We pronounce a blessing on you in the name of the Lord." Psalm 130 130:1 A song of ascents. From the deep water I cry out to you, O Lord. 130:2 O Lord, listen to me! Pay attention to my plea for mercy! 130:3 If you, O Lord, were to keep track of sins, O Lord, who could stand before you? 130:4 But you are willing to forgive, so that you might be honored. 130:5 I rely on the Lord, I rely on him with my whole being; I wait for his assuring word. 130:6 I yearn for the Lord, more than watchmen do for the morning, yes, more than watchmen do for the morning. 130:7 O Israel, hope in the Lord, for the Lord exhibits loyal love, and is more than willing to deliver. 130:8 He will deliver Israel from all the consequences of their sins. Psalm 131 131:1 A song of ascents, by David. O Lord, my heart is not proud, nor do I have a haughty look. I do not have great aspirations, or concern myself with things that are beyond me. 131:2 Indeed I am composed and quiet, like a young child carried by its mother; I am content like the young child I carry. 131:3 O Israel, hope in the Lord now and forevermore! Psalm 132 132:1 A song of ascents. O Lord, for David's sake remember all his strenuous effort, 132:2 and how he made a vow to the Lord, and swore an oath to the powerful ruler of Jacob. 132:3 He said, "I will not enter my own home, or get into my bed. 132:4 I will not allow my eyes to sleep, or my eyelids to slumber, 132:5 until I find a place for the Lord, a fine dwelling place for the powerful ruler of Jacob." 132:6 Look, we heard about it in Ephrathah, we found it in the territory of Jaar. 132:7 Let us go to his dwelling place! Let us worship before his footstool! 132:8 Ascend, O Lord, to your resting place, you and the ark of your strength! 132:9 May your priests be clothed with integrity! May your loyal followers shout for joy! 132:10 For the sake of David, your servant, do not reject your chosen king! 132:11 The Lord made a reliable promise to David; he will not go back on his word. He said, "I will place one of your descendants on your throne. 132:12 If your sons keep my covenant and the rules I teach them, their sons will also sit on your throne forever." 132:13 Certainly the Lord has chosen Zion; he decided to make it his home. 132:14 He said, "This will be my resting place forever; I will live here, for I have chosen it. 132:15 I will abundantly supply what she needs; I will give her poor all the food they need. 132:16 I will protect her priests, and her godly people will shout exuberantly. 132:17 There I will make David strong; I have determined that my chosen king's dynasty will continue. 132:18 I will humiliate his enemies, and his crown will shine. Psalm 133 133:1 A song of ascents, by David. Look! How good and how pleasant it is when brothers live together! 133:2 It is like fine oil poured on the head which flows down the beard -- Aaron's beard, and then flows down his garments. 133:3 It is like the dew of Hermon, which flows down upon the hills of Zion. Indeed that is where the Lord has decreed a blessing will be available -- eternal life. Psalm 134 134:1 A song of ascents. Attention! Praise the Lord, all you servants of the Lord, who serve in the Lord's temple during the night. 134:2 Lift your hands toward the sanctuary and praise the Lord! 134:3 May the Lord, the Creator of heaven and earth, bless you from Zion! Prayer Lord, if only we would be humble and take the time to know You better we would also know how to rightly respond to You. May I dwell upon You more than anything else in this world. Commentary Psalms 120 -- 134 are a collection of "ascents" or affirmations of the character and characteristics of the Lord God, and a commitment to make a right response to Him. Psalm 120 was a petition "In my distress I cried out to the Lord and he answered me." Psalm 121 "My help comes from the Lord, the Creator of heaven and earth!" Psalm 122 "For the sake of my brothers and my neighbors I will say, "May there be peace in you!"" Psalm 123 "I look up toward you, the one enthroned in heaven." Psalm 124 ""If the Lord had not been on our side" ... they would have swallowed us alive, when their anger raged against us." Psalm 125 "Those who trust in the Lord are like Mount Zion; it cannot be upended and will endure forever." Psalm 126 "When the Lord restored the well-being of Zion, we thought we were dreaming." Psalm 127 "If the Lord does not build a house, then those who build it work in vain. If the Lord does not guard a city, then the watchman stands guard in vain." Psalm 128 "How blessed is every one of the Lord's loyal followers, each one who keeps his commands!" Psalm 129 "The Lord is just; he cut the ropes of the wicked."" Psalm 130 "If you, O Lord, were to keep track of sins, O Lord, who could stand before you?" Psalm 131 "O Israel, hope in the Lord now and forevermore!" Psalm 132 "Ascend, O Lord, to your resting place, you and the ark of your strength! May your priests be clothed with integrity! May your loyal followers shout for joy!" Psalm 133 "Look! How good and how pleasant it is when brothers live together!" Psalm 134 "Attention! Praise the Lord, all you servants of the Lord, who serve in the Lord's temple during the night. Lift your hands toward the sanctuary and praise the Lord! May the Lord, the Creator of heaven and earth, bless you from Zion!" Interaction Consider The emphasis is upon God-first and man second, He blesses us, we respond with praise. Discuss What wisdom for healthy fellowships do you observe in the selections from 122 and 133? Reflect If not for the mercy and grace-empowered forgetfulness of the Lord our sins would destroy us. Share When have you experienced of observed prayers for one-another and positive fellowship among believers bringing glory to the Lord God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your life where more of an obsession with the character and characteristics of the Lord God would bring peace. Action: Today I will celebrate the peace I have found in an intentional focus upon the Lord God during my whole day. I will share that experience with a fellow believer as an encouragement to them. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Psalms 135 - 139 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed May 18 00:25:43 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy Staggs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:25:43 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> On 5/17/2011 7:04 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > Indeed this is the correct way to resolve conflicts as is stated in > the New Testimony but that does not mean it's the correct way to > follow God's will. I don't believe that God has given us a correct way to resolve problems, that will prevent us from following His will. That would be contradictory in my opinion. Matthew 12:25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: Luke 9:49--50 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid himnot: for he that is not against us is for us. > God speaks to us all threw others and we are to respect our family and > authorities, however we no longer live under the old testimony law but > are held to a higher standard. True, but I fail to see what point you are making with this. You do of course realize that in the Passage you quoted below from the NT, the Lord was quoting from the OT? Deuteronomy 6:4--9 Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord: And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart: And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates. > Often times in my life and the lives of people I know God will tell us > to do something bold that requires faith and courage and often times > no one around us agrees with what we are doing even if some of them > support us physically and financially. "^36 "Teacher, which is the > greatest commandment in the Law?" > > ^37 Jesus replied:"'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and > with all your soul and with all your mind.'^[c > ] > ^38 This is the first and greatest commandment.^39 And the second is > like it: 'Love your neighbour as yourself.'^[d > ] > ^40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." > > " > To love the Lord with all my heart, soul, and mind I must seek Him and > follow all of his commandments even if those commandments aren't > written in the Bible. God has commanded me personally not to belong to > any denomination. If my Pastor should ask me to study Lutheran > Doctrine / Theology I must and have rejected it because God does not > want me to pollute my mind with it. God wants a blank canvis to paint > on so he doesn't have to paint over errors in the painting. I believe God often uses Godly men to shape others. Proverbs 27:17 Iron sharpeneth iron; So a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend. Proverbs 1:5--6 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; And a man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels: To understand a proverb, and the interpretation; The words of the wise, and their dark sayings. > I respect my Pastor and my family. I will do whatever they ask so long > as it does not violate what the Lord wants me to do. I have found my > Parents ask me to do things without seeking God first and asking Him > if it's the right choice for me in accordance with His will. Some have > told me they think the greatest sin is not seeking God and trying to > figure it out yourself. I value the opinions of others, listen, and > consider it all, but for as many good ideas as I hear I must reject > most of them because "There is a way that appears to be right to > man,but in the end it leads to death." Who knows what God's will is > other than the person who hears it, who has sought God out for their > answer? If you are seeking God's truth and His Spirit reveals His > instruction to you and people around you say that you should not do > what God has asked you to do what should you do? > > 1 Corinthians 3:18 ^18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any of you think > you are wise by the standards of this age, you should become "fools" > so that you may become wise. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed May 18 00:56:40 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy Staggs) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:56:40 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> References: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD35188.3010009@staggs.net> On 5/17/2011 9:14 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Billy, this is something that I don't understand. We have one vote, > one person. Meaning one vote for one person. I cannot see in Scripture > where there is a higher command in place. I don't find in the Scriptures where the Church or Israel used a democracy or even a republic. Where specifically are you finding the one vote per person? > Elder, pastor, bishop are all the same office. The one who leads the > church is the pastor, as God leads him. If he wants to be a rogue, and > do differnetly than what God wants, the church as a whole suffers. > I've seen it happen is a church that I used to belong to, this guy was > in there before we moved our membership there. This guy had gotten mad > at me several times when he had me to fill his pulpit. I truly feel > sorry for him, but he did do the church hurt, and he paid for it in > other areas, and ways. Sorry, I just son't see where the first church > had the hierarchy in there. > Brother, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this, because I feel there is sufficient evidence for a hierarchy within the Church. 1 Timothy 3:1--5 This is a true saying, If a man desire the*office of a bishop*, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 1 Timothy 3:8--13 Likewise must the *deacons *be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and *ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee*: 2 Peter 3:1--2 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: ^2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of *the commandment of us the apostles* of the Lord and Saviour: Acts 26:15--17 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I have appeared unto thee for this purpose, *to make thee a minister and a witness* both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the people, and fromthe Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, 1 Corinthians 12:27--29 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular. And God hath set some in the church, first *apostles*, secondarily *prophets*, thirdly *teachers*, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, *governments*, diversities of tongues. Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles? ...etc I do sympathizes with you about how a Pastor out of God's will can derail or even destroy a local body. But to me this is just all the more reason for a strong central authority above and beyond the local body. -- bstaggs <>< -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed May 18 00:59:25 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:59:25 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD35188.3010009@staggs.net> References: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD35188.3010009@staggs.net> Message-ID: <95E8F272-45B8-4355-9D1D-B902F9B7FFCD@ofb.biz> On May 17, 2011, at 11:56 PM, Billy Staggs wrote: > I do sympathizes with you about how a Pastor out of God's will can derail or even destroy a local body. But to me this is just all the more reason for a strong central authority above and beyond the local body. Yes. If only for the sake of those the pastor will try to hurt. If you have no authority above the pastor, the injured have no one to seek help from. Make the pastor accountable and he may just back off on doing some of the things he'd LIKE to do. -Tim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Wed May 18 02:51:27 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:51:27 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> Look for: "Open Source Christian Community" on Facebook or try this Link: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Source-Christian-Community/227230293957027 Currently it's in alpha but I think it's a good start. If you like it please click Like. It's a place for the Body of Christ to assemble online. It also has a private prayer group you can ask to be added to that has been running for quite some time. I've been inspired to do this by many people. Some may call it a community of believers seeking the Truth, some may call it an online Church, Call it what you will. I call it fun and exciting. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Wed May 18 02:57:41 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 17 May 2011 23:57:41 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <21409AA2-1355-4DC0-B5BB-F089FEC0867B@ofb.biz> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD17CC1.4090405@mindblowingidea.com> <66278D24-C11D-41CB-A46F-5187EED2BABB@ofb.biz> <4DD3291B.80609@mindblowingidea.com> <21409AA2-1355-4DC0-B5BB-F089FEC0867B@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4DD36DE5.9010004@mindblowingidea.com> Each of us has different insight given to us by the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit is a unifying thing that unites us as one. Usually we can all agree to follow whatever the Holy Spirit reveals to us so long as it agrees with scripture. If someone comes to me and says God showed them or told them to do something or whatever as long as it does not violate scripture I'll bite. I have to be open to what others say and how the Spirit might be working threw them. On 05/17/2011 07:42 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > And what if the Holy Spirit reveals something else to others? I > thoroughly believe the Spirit teaches conversely to what you are saying. > > -Tim > > > On May 17, 2011, at 9:04 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > >> Because of the revelation of the Holy Spirit >> >> On 05/17/2011 06:15 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: >>> And, how do we determine what the "intended meaning" is? English didn't even exist in any form during the time of the Bible, so we can't look to Scripture... >>> >>> -Tim >>> >>> >>> On May 16, 2011, at 2:36 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >>> >>>> I believe these words have already been redefined by the secular world. I believe our modern day interpretations of those words and definitions differ from their intended meaning. >> > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed May 18 11:05:14 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 10:05:14 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD36DE5.9010004@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD17CC1.4090405@mindblowingidea.com> <66278D24-C11D-41CB-A46F-5187EED2BABB@ofb.biz> <4DD3291B.80609@mindblowingidea.com> <21409AA2-1355-4DC0-B5BB-F089FEC0867B@ofb.biz> <4DD36DE5.9010004@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <3609A23F-64A4-4CC2-82B8-F9FC38F846A9@ofb.biz> I agree with that, but if you are saying the English language is defined by the Spirit and instead of (and possibly in contradiction to) commonly accepted definitions of words, you have created a scenario where when I tell you the Holy Spirit told me to do something you cannot even be sure what the words I uttered mean. And if that is true of English, arguably it would be true of all languages. That might mean, for instance, I could claim the word "steal" in Scripture means the opposite of what it really does and there would be no way to refute me, since I could claim the Spirit told me that is what the word meant and, with that definition, Scripture "agrees" I should take other people's stuff. Tim On May 18, 2011, at 1:57 AM, usacomputertech wrote: > Each of us has different insight given to us by the Holy Spirit but the Holy Spirit is a unifying thing that unites us as one. Usually we can all agree to follow whatever the Holy Spirit reveals to us so long as it agrees with scripture. If someone comes to me and says God showed them or told them to do something or whatever as long as it does not violate scripture I'll bite. I have to be open to what others say and how the Spirit might be working threw them. > > On 05/17/2011 07:42 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: >> >> And what if the Holy Spirit reveals something else to others? I thoroughly believe the Spirit teaches conversely to what you are saying. >> >> -Tim >> >> >> On May 17, 2011, at 9:04 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >> >>> Because of the revelation of the Holy Spirit >>> >>> On 05/17/2011 06:15 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: >>>> >>>> And, how do we determine what the "intended meaning" is? English didn't even exist in any form during the time of the Bible, so we can't look to Scripture... >>>> >>>> -Tim >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 16, 2011, at 2:36 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >>>> >>>>> I believe these words have already been redefined by the secular world. I believe our modern day interpretations of those words and definitions differ from their intended meaning. >>>> >>> >> > > > -- > http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec > > > USA COMPUTER TECH > COMPUTER RESCUE > > Justin Breithaupt > (509) 730-5576 > (208) 750-5628 > > e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com > website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html > Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ > > More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec > They say that money talks, if so what does it say? > > > > If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com > asking him to put JULinux on his site. > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Wed May 18 15:04:47 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:04:47 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> References: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Message-ID: > Billy, this is something that I don't understand. We have one vote, one > person. Meaning one vote for one person. I cannot see in Scripture where > there is a higher command in place. Elder, pastor, bishop are all the same > office. The one who leads the church is the pastor, as God leads him. And now I am opening up another can of worms. :-) There is no basis whatsoever in the New Testament for democracy in the church. "One man, one vote" allows new believers and even so-called "carnal Christians" who still do not have a thorough knowledge of God's Word and His ways to decide the future of the congregation. Nor is a Papal One-man hierarchy Biblical. We see a plurality of elders throughout the New Testament. And ,no: The sellection of deacons in Acts 6 was NOT a democratic sellection of leadership. The apostles told the sheep to seek out men with speific qualifications. Then they were brought before the apostles for approval. That is not democracy. And futhermore, these were men sellected to SERVE TABLES, not to govern the church. Senior apostle Paul instructs junior apostles Timothy and Titus to raise up elders in every city. Be blessed! Dr. Steve Central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6133 (20110518) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed May 18 15:35:52 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 14:35:52 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <6dc79057.9fa02.13000e24454.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD41F98.8030808@staggs.net> Well said! Exactly as I understand it. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/18/2011 2:04 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: >> Billy, this is something that I don't understand. We have one vote, >> one person. Meaning one vote for one person. I cannot see in >> Scripture where there is a higher command in place. Elder, pastor, >> bishop are all the same office. The one who leads the church is the >> pastor, as God leads him. > > And now I am opening up another can of worms. :-) > > There is no basis whatsoever in the New Testament for democracy in the > church. "One man, one vote" allows new believers and even so-called > "carnal Christians" who still do not have a thorough knowledge of > God's Word and His ways to decide the future of the congregation. Nor > is a Papal One-man hierarchy Biblical. We see a plurality of elders > throughout the New Testament. > > And ,no: The sellection of deacons in Acts 6 was NOT a democratic > sellection of leadership. The apostles told the sheep to seek out men > with speific qualifications. Then they were brought before the > apostles for approval. That is not democracy. And futhermore, these > were men sellected to SERVE TABLES, not to govern the church. > > Senior apostle Paul instructs junior apostles Timothy and Titus to > raise up elders in every city. > > Be blessed! > > Dr. Steve > Central old Mexico > From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 18 22:19:20 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 22:19:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Psalms 135 - 139 Message-ID: <4DD47E28.7030600@bibleseven.com> Thursday Psalms 135 - 139 Psalm 135 135:1 Praise the Lord! Praise the name of the Lord! Offer praise, you servants of the Lord, 135:2 who serve in the Lord's temple, in the courts of the temple of our God. 135:3 Praise the Lord, for the Lord is good! Sing praises to his name, for it is pleasant! 135:4 Indeed, the Lord has chosen Jacob for himself, Israel to be his special possession. 135:5 Yes, I know the Lord is great, and our Lord is superior to all gods. 135:6 He does whatever he pleases in heaven and on earth, in the seas and all the ocean depths. 135:7 He causes the clouds to arise from the end of the earth, makes lightning bolts accompany the rain, and brings the wind out of his storehouses. 135:8 He struck down the firstborn of Egypt, including both men and animals. 135:9 He performed awesome deeds and acts of judgment in your midst, O Egypt, against Pharaoh and all his servants. 135:10 He defeated many nations, and killed mighty kings -- 135:11 Sihon, king of the Amorites, and Og, king of Bashan, and all the kingdoms of Canaan. 135:12 He gave their land as an inheritance, as an inheritance to Israel his people. 135:13 O Lord, your name endures, your reputation, O Lord, lasts. 135:14 For the Lord vindicates his people, and has compassion on his servants. 135:15 The nations' idols are made of silver and gold, they are man-made. 135:16 They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see, 135:17 and ears, but cannot hear. Indeed, they cannot breathe. 135:18 Those who make them will end up like them, as will everyone who trusts in them. 135:19 O family of Israel, praise the Lord! O family of Aaron, praise the Lord! 135:20 O family of Levi, praise the Lord! You loyal followers of the Lord, praise the Lord! 135:21 The Lord deserves praise in Zion -- he who dwells in Jerusalem. Praise the Lord! Psalm 136 136:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his loyal love endures. 136:2 Give thanks to the God of gods, for his loyal love endures. 136:3 Give thanks to the Lord of lords, for his loyal love endures, 136:4 to the one who performs magnificent, amazing deeds all by himself, for his loyal love endures, 136:5 to the one who used wisdom to make the heavens, for his loyal love endures, 136:6 to the one who spread out the earth over the water, for his loyal love endures, 136:7 to the one who made the great lights, for his loyal love endures, 136:8 the sun to rule by day, for his loyal love endures, 136:9 the moon and stars to rule by night, for his loyal love endures, 136:10 to the one who struck down the firstborn of Egypt, for his loyal love endures, 136:11 and led Israel out from their midst, for his loyal love endures, 136:12 with a strong hand and an outstretched arm, for his loyal love endures, 136:13 to the one who divided the Red Sea in two, for his loyal love endures, 136:14 and led Israel through its midst, for his loyal love endures, 136:15 and tossed Pharaoh and his army into the Red Sea, for his loyal love endures, 136:16 to the one who led his people through the wilderness, for his loyal love endures, 136:17 to the one who struck down great kings, for his loyal love endures, 136:18 and killed powerful kings, for his loyal love endures, 136:19 Sihon, king of the Amorites, for his loyal love endures, 136:20 Og, king of Bashan, for his loyal love endures, 136:21 and gave their land as an inheritance, for his loyal love endures, 136:22 as an inheritance to Israel his servant, for his loyal love endures, 136:23 to the one who remembered us when we were down, for his loyal love endures, 136:24 and snatched us away from our enemies, for his loyal love endures, 136:25 to the one who gives food to all living things, for his loyal love endures. 136:26 Give thanks to the God of heaven, for his loyal love endures! Psalm 137 137:1 By the rivers of Babylon we sit down and weep when we remember Zion. 137:2 On the poplars in her midst we hang our harps, 137:3 for there our captors ask us to compose songs; those who mock us demand that we be happy, saying: "Sing for us a song about Zion!" 137:4 How can we sing a song to the Lord in a foreign land? 137:5 If I forget you, O Jerusalem, may my right hand be crippled! 137:6 May my tongue stick to the roof of my mouth, if I do not remember you, and do not give Jerusalem priority over whatever gives me the most joy. 137:7 Remember, O Lord, what the Edomites did on the day Jerusalem fell. They said, "Tear it down, tear it down, right to its very foundation!" 137:8 O daughter Babylon, soon to be devastated! How blessed will be the one who repays you for what you dished out to us! 137:9 How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock! Psalm 138 138:1 By David. I will give you thanks with all my heart; before the heavenly assembly I will sing praises to you. 138:2 I will bow down toward your holy temple, and give thanks to your name, because of your loyal love and faithfulness, for you have exalted your promise above the entire sky. 138:3 When I cried out for help, you answered me. You made me bold and energized me. 138:4 Let all the kings of the earth give thanks to you, O Lord, when they hear the words you speak. 138:5 Let them sing about the Lord's deeds, for the Lord's splendor is magnificent. 138:6 Though the Lord is exalted, he takes note of the lowly, and recognizes the proud from far away. 138:7 Even when I must walk in the midst of danger, you revive me. You oppose my angry enemies, and your right hand delivers me. 138:8 The Lord avenges me. O Lord, your loyal love endures. Do not abandon those whom you have made! Psalm 139 139:1 For the music director, a psalm of David. O Lord, you examine me and know. 139:2 You know when I sit down and when I get up; even from far away you understand my motives. 139:3 You carefully observe me when I travel or when I lie down to rest; you are aware of everything I do. 139:4 Certainly my tongue does not frame a word without you, O Lord, being thoroughly aware of it. 139:5 You squeeze me in from behind and in front; you place your hand on me. 139:6 Your knowledge is beyond my comprehension; it is so far beyond me, I am unable to fathom it. 139:7 Where can I go to escape your spirit? Where can I flee to escape your presence? 139:8 If I were to ascend to heaven, you would be there. If I were to sprawl out in Sheol, there you would be. 139:9 If I were to fly away on the wings of the dawn, and settle down on the other side of the sea, 139:10 even there your hand would guide me, your right hand would grab hold of me. 139:11 If I were to say, "Certainly the darkness will cover me, and the light will turn to night all around me," 139:12 even the darkness is not too dark for you to see, and the night is as bright as day; darkness and light are the same to you. 139:13 Certainly you made my mind and heart; you wove me together in my mother's womb. 139:14 I will give you thanks because your deeds are awesome and amazing. You knew me thoroughly; 139:15 my bones were not hidden from you, when I was made in secret and sewed together in the depths of the earth. 139:16 Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence. 139:17 How difficult it is for me to fathom your thoughts about me, O God! How vast is their sum total! 139:18 If I tried to count them, they would outnumber the grains of sand. Even if I finished counting them, I would still have to contend with you. 139:19 If only you would kill the wicked, O God! Get away from me, you violent men! 139:20 They rebel against you and act deceitfully; your enemies lie. 139:21 O Lord, do I not hate those who hate you, and despise those who oppose you? 139:22 I absolutely hate them, they have become my enemies! 139:23 Examine me, and probe my thoughts! Test me, and know my concerns! 139:24 See if there is any idolatrous tendency in me, and lead me in the reliable ancient path! Prayer Lord, You are unique, powerful, and omni-present. May I never imagine that I may keep anything from You, may I rather be mindful that You know and see all things, and be more intentional every day to live rightly before You. Commentary Psalm 135 was praise with wisdom "The nations' idols are made of silver and gold, they are man-made. They have mouths, but cannot speak, eyes, but cannot see, and ears, but cannot hear. Indeed, they cannot breathe. Those who make them will end up like them, as will everyone who trusts in them." The author was not identified in the text. Psalm 136 was praise "Give thanks to the Lord, for he is good, for his loyal love endures." The author was not identified in the text. Psalm 137 was an imprecatory prayer "O daughter Babylon, soon to be devastated! How blessed will be the one who repays you for what you dished out to us! How blessed will be the one who grabs your babies and smashes them on a rock!" The author was not identified in the text. Psalm 138 began as a praise and concluded with a petition "When I cried out for help, you answered me. You made me bold and energized me ... Do not abandon those whom you have made!" The author was David. Psalm 139 was wisdom then concluded with a petition "You know when I sit down and when I get up; even from far away you understand my motives ... Your knowledge is beyond my comprehension; it is so far beyond me, I am unable to fathom it. Where can I go to escape your spirit? Where can I flee to escape your presence? ... Certainly you made my mind and heart; you wove me together in my mother's womb ... Your eyes saw me when I was inside the womb. All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence ... Examine me, and probe my thoughts! Test me, and know my concerns! See if there is any idolatrous tendency in me, and lead me in the reliable ancient path!" The author was David. Interaction Consider This group of Psalms contains a powerful contrast between false gods and the One true God, a please for the destruction of those who had destroyed Jerusalem and enslaved the Israelites, and acknowledgment of the exceptional nature of the Lord God. Discuss Why would David ask the Lord God to search and cleanse his heart? Reflect Psalm 139 contains two texts which are sometimes mis-applied to proof-text the the doctrines of fatalism and predestination " ... you wove me together in my mother's womb ... All the days ordained for me were recorded in your scroll before one of them came into existence ..." but such an interpretation is in conflict with many other Biblical texts. The reader must remember that David was prone to broad emotional declarations and not everything he wrote was intended to be doctrine. Share When have you cried out to the Lord to destroy someone who was troubling you? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to encourage you to invite Him to examine you for any tendencies to idolatry and to purge it from your life. Action: Today I will prayerfully and reflectively make a list of things in my life that distract me from the Lord God. I will surrender all of them to the Lord and ask Him to only return those things that will not function as idols, even in the smallest way, and to remove my desire for anything that will. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Psalms 140 - 144 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! 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URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 18 22:26:40 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 22:26:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> I don't use Facebook. It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. My observation has been that people who prefer electronic-church are intentionally avoiding accountability and intimacy -- those who have a legitimate *need* for such are rare, and most of those are temporary circumstances. The apostle Paul lamented the limitation of his imprisonment because it prevented him from being physically present, so did John on Patmos. IMHO, YMMV ... > usacomputertech wrote: > Look for: "Open Source Christian Community" on Facebook or try this > Link: > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Source-Christian-Community/227230293957027 > Currently it's in alpha but I think it's a good start. If you like it > please click Like. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 18 22:35:09 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 22:35:09 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD36DE5.9010004@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD17CC1.4090405@mindblowingidea.com> <66278D24-C11D-41CB-A46F-5187EED2BABB@ofb.biz> <4DD3291B.80609@mindblowingidea.com> <21409AA2-1355-4DC0-B5BB-F089FEC0867B@ofb.biz> <4DD36DE5.9010004@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD481DD.6010909@bibleseven.com> You have been shown - using Biblical texts - that your thoughts about fellowship without accountability or leadership is Biblically-incorrect but you keep returning to this false doctrine of private-revelation. If there is one thing that the Lord God consistently valued, over all other characteristics of humankind, it was a teachable heart. That is why David, despite his many flaws, was labeled by God "A man after my own heart." The rejection of accountability or leadership is a tool of the enemy to separate Christians from the authority of the Word and from mutual accountability. It is also an act of rebellion against the clear teaching of the Word of God to believers. It is a plague. I pray that the Holy Spirit will bring discernment to believers and will purge this bad doctrine out from among us. > usacomputertech wrote: > Each of us has different insight given to us by the Holy Spirit but > the Holy Spirit is a unifying thing that unites us as one. Usually we > can all agree to follow whatever the Holy Spirit reveals to us so > long as it agrees with scripture. If someone comes to me and says God > showed them or told them to do something or whatever as long as it > does not violate scripture I'll bite. I have to be open to what > others say and how the Spirit might be working threw them. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 18 22:40:38 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 22:40:38 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? Message-ID: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> I have recently learned of a large network of fellowships which appear to use "Christian Church" in their names and who share some common doctrine. I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. They appear to believe in works-righteousness and that ones salvation is always at risk, absent 'the right works'. Is anyone familiar with this and have any clarification, please? -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed May 18 22:59:57 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 21:59:57 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> References: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <87453923-423F-4451-A759-76E3CA977860@ofb.biz> On May 18, 2011, at 9:40 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > I have recently learned of a large network of fellowships > which appear to use "Christian Church" in their names and > who share some common doctrine. > > I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion > is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' > doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. > > They appear to believe in works-righteousness and that ones > salvation is always at risk, absent 'the right works'. > > Is anyone familiar with this and have any clarification, please? My guess is that what you are hearing about is part of the Stone-Campbellite movement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement Some of them go by Church of Christ, some as "Christian Churches." Some seem to be within orthodoxy, others have wandered outside of it based on the very critique you raise. Baptismal regeneration does show up amongst some parts of the movement, as does a rejection of the Trinity. Fitting in with our ongoing discussion on L4C, many of the problems stem from an intentional lack of accountability within this "movement," since it said it wanted to restore the New Testament church and avoid the sectarian, man-made divisions of things like creeds and theological work. Because of the deemphasis on doctrine, the Restorationist movement sometimes becomes very conservative and sometimes very liberal. Parts of it are now in the "Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)" and the United Church of Christ, for example. -Tim From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 18 23:05:04 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 23:05:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: <87453923-423F-4451-A759-76E3CA977860@ofb.biz> References: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> <87453923-423F-4451-A759-76E3CA977860@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4DD488E0.5030209@bibleseven.com> How would you classify the Atlanta Christian College (soon to be Point University) http://www.acc.edu/s/310/start.aspx and Savannah Christian Church http://savannahchristian.com/ in that mix? > On May 18, 2011, at 9:40 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > >> I have recently learned of a large network of fellowships >> which appear to use "Christian Church" in their names and >> who share some common doctrine. >> >> I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion >> is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' >> doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. >> >> They appear to believe in works-righteousness and that ones >> salvation is always at risk, absent 'the right works'. >> >> Is anyone familiar with this and have any clarification, please? >> > > My guess is that what you are hearing about is part of the Stone-Campbellite movement: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement > > Some of them go by Church of Christ, some as "Christian Churches." Some seem to be within orthodoxy, others have wandered outside of it based on the very critique you raise. Baptismal regeneration does show up amongst some parts of the movement, as does a rejection of the Trinity. Fitting in with our ongoing discussion on L4C, many of the problems stem from an intentional lack of accountability within this "movement," since it said it wanted to restore the New Testament church and avoid the sectarian, man-made divisions of things like creeds and theological work. > > Because of the deemphasis on doctrine, the Restorationist movement sometimes becomes very conservative and sometimes very liberal. Parts of it are now in the "Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)" and the United Church of Christ, for example. > > -Tim > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Wed May 18 23:14:08 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 20:14:08 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD48B00.7030809@mindblowingidea.com> That can be your observation however my observation / circumstance and the circumstances of others like me are the same. I live in a rural area and there are no non-denominational Churches were I feel free to express myself, worship freely, and discuss supernatural things and ask questions like I believe I should. I have met a bunch of other people online who are in the same situation cut off from a good Christian Network where people can exchange unbiased information and help build one another up. I started a private online prayer group and that worked out very well so why not a public Christian network? I want to tie them into each other so that after members of the Open Source group have proven not to be gossips, judgemental, ect. we can add them to the private prayer group. To tell you the truth the stuff that goes on in here is at least 10x worse if not 100x worse than my private prayer group but that's probably because anyone can join this group. On 05/18/2011 07:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > I don't use Facebook. > > It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. > > My observation has been that people who prefer electronic-church are > intentionally avoiding accountability and intimacy -- those who have > a legitimate *need* for such are rare, and most of those are temporary > circumstances. > > The apostle Paul lamented the limitation of his imprisonment because > it prevented him from being physically present, so did John on Patmos. > > IMHO, YMMV ... > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> Look for: "Open Source Christian Community" on Facebook or try this >> Link: >> > http://www.facebook.com/pages/Open-Source-Christian-Community/227230293957027 > >> Currently it's in alpha but I think it's a good start. If you like it >> please click Like. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Wed May 18 23:17:22 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 20:17:22 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD481DD.6010909@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD17CC1.4090405@mindblowingidea.com> <66278D24-C11D-41CB-A46F-5187EED2BABB@ofb.biz> <4DD3291B.80609@mindblowingidea.com> <21409AA2-1355-4DC0-B5BB-F089FEC0867B@ofb.biz> <4DD36DE5.9010004@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD481DD.6010909@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD48BC2.9080108@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/18/2011 07:35 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > You have been shown - using Biblical texts - that your thoughts about > fellowship without accountability or leadership is Biblically-incorrect > but you keep returning to this false doctrine of private-revelation. I have been taught my whole life that we are to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and that would lead to private revelation just like the great heroes of the Bible. > > If there is one thing that the Lord God consistently valued, over all > other characteristics of humankind, it was a teachable heart. That is > why David, despite his many flaws, was labeled by God "A man after > my own heart." Your right and people steeped in tradition who think they know it all and are stiff necked can't be taught by God personally and receive revelation. The only revelation they will accept is theology from someone else. > > The rejection of accountability or leadership is a tool of the enemy > to separate Christians from the authority of the Word and from mutual > accountability. It is also an act of rebellion against the clear > teaching > of the Word of God to believers. It is a plague. All men are corrupt. If you put a man over you instead of the uncorrupted God then you are setting yourself up for failure. > > I pray that the Holy Spirit will bring discernment to believers and > will purge this bad doctrine out from among us. Also pray that if you have made an error that you will be shown in a way that you can not deny. > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> Each of us has different insight given to us by the Holy Spirit but >> the Holy Spirit is a unifying thing that unites us as one. Usually we >> can all agree to follow whatever the Holy Spirit reveals to us so >> long as it agrees with scripture. If someone comes to me and says God >> showed them or told them to do something or whatever as long as it >> does not violate scripture I'll bite. I have to be open to what >> others say and how the Spirit might be working threw them. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Wed May 18 23:19:02 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 20:19:02 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> References: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD48C26.4090006@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/18/2011 07:40 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > I have recently learned of a large network of fellowships > which appear to use "Christian Church" in their names and > who share some common doctrine. > > I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion > is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' > doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. > > They appear to believe in works-righteousness and that ones > salvation is always at risk, absent 'the right works'. > > Is anyone familiar with this and have any clarification, please? > > I am familiar with this. There is a "Christian Church" in my neighbourhood and even if you have been baptised already if you want to join their Church you must be baptised again and immersed just like our local Baptist Church. -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 18 23:21:17 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 23:21:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD48C26.4090006@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> <4DD48C26.4090006@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD48CAD.4080000@bibleseven.com> No, not the same. They promote works-righteousness and baptism as a part of "earning" salvation. The SBC association does not support that. > > I am familiar with this. There is a "Christian Church" in my > neighbourhood and even if you have been baptised already if you want > to join their Church you must be baptised again and immersed just like > our local Baptist Church. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Thu May 19 00:07:34 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 23:07:34 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> References: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: > I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion > is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' > doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. This is a fallacy spread by many Baptists about Charismatics. I grew up Baptist. We arrived in Mexico in 1956, sent here by the Baptist General Conference (Used to be the old Swedish Baptist.) And I still work with many Baptist churches and friends (and dozens of other denominations). And I have worked with many Charismatic churches on five continents. I have NEVER met any of them who claim that tongues are required for salvation. There ARE some anti-Trinitarian pseudo-Pentecostal groups (I dare NOT call them Christian!) who claim that nobody is saved, unless they are baptised "in Jesus' Name. A few of these groups erroneously teach that only those who speak in tongues are saved. But, guess what? None of these heretical groups claim to be Charismatic. For solid doctrine of the Trinity, I very highly reccomend Ford Wilson's (Yes: My own dear father!) excellent book: The Trinity as Revealed in the Old Testament. (ISBN: 1602660182) It is not a rehash of other books, but 100% Bible-based. http://www.lifewaystores.com/lwstore/product.asp?isbn=1602660182&mscssid=0MFCHLN88KDW8JFMUKFWRNPKJFP2CW00 He has a B.A. from Bethel College and Seminaray, and an M. Div. from Gordon Conwell. __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6133 (20110518) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From hpp3 at lavabit.com Thu May 19 00:41:26 2011 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 21:41:26 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> On Sat, 14 May 2011 22:49:37 -0400 "Fred A. Miller" wrote: > I just know that I'm going to get a few people all wound up with this > one.....oh well! > > Fred > > Many pastors and modern prophecy writers teach that the Church will be > raptured off the earth prior to a seven year tribulation. Where in the > Bible is this found? Nowhere. Confused? Watch this edition of /Vantage > Point/ for an honest look at the "rapture". > > http://americanvision.org/4477/rapture-fact-or-fiction/ > Well Fred, looks like you were right! .. and it appears I'm in the minority around here... (says the dispensationalist, millenialist, rapture-believing fundamentalist with a King James bible.) Haven't watched the Vantage Point presentation yet, but I will. Promise. -Eddy From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu May 19 00:54:30 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy Staggs) Date: Wed, 18 May 2011 23:54:30 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> Message-ID: <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> Count me in on the dispensationalist, millennialist, rapture-believing fundamentalist with a King James Bible. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/18/2011 11:41 PM, Eddy wrote: > > Well Fred, looks like you were right! > > .. and it appears I'm in the minority around here... > (says the dispensationalist, millenialist, > rapture-believing fundamentalist with a King James bible.) > > Haven't watched the Vantage Point presentation yet, but I will. > Promise. > > -Eddy > From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Thu May 19 07:35:40 2011 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (linc) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 07:35:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> On 05/18/2011 10:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > I don't use Facebook. > > It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. > All the more reason to maintain a presence there if you ask me. Jesus didn't hang out in synagogues but among the common people. > My observation has been that people who prefer electronic-church are > intentionally avoiding accountability and intimacy -- those who have > a legitimate *need* for such are rare, and most of those are temporary > circumstances. > > The apostle Paul lamented the limitation of his imprisonment because > it prevented him from being physically present, so did John on Patmos. > > IMHO, YMMV ... Mark 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation. There is an enormous community of people to reach on the internet. Some, perhaps, that are disillusioned with the limited religious community where they physically reside. I see the internet as an opportunity to be taken, sort of like those people that broadcast Christian radio into Christian hostile places like China. Also remember Romans 8:28 "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, whohave been called according to his purpose." That's my $.02 anyway. <>< --Linc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Thu May 19 07:49:43 2011 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (linc) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 07:49:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> On 05/19/2011 12:54 AM, Billy Staggs wrote: > Count me in on the dispensationalist, millennialist, rapture-believing > fundamentalist with a King James Bible. > > -- > bstaggs <>< Heh, some people say things like fundamentalist and King James like they are *bad* things. Well, this "Fundy" loves his KJV too :) GBY --Linc. From karl at kleinpaste.org Thu May 19 09:23:29 2011 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 09:23:29 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> (linc's message of "Thu, 19 May 2011 07:49:43 -0400") References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: Billy Staggs wrote: >> fundamentalist with a King James Bible. linc writes: > Well, this "Fundy" loves his KJV too :) Then you are content with all the known flaws of KJV, including: 1. Rev 22:19, mis-translation of "book" -vs- "tree". What one finds by looking through translators' commentary about this is that it dates from when Erasmus was editing what would eventually be called the Textus Receptus (TR); he lacked a Greek manuscript for the end of Revelation, so he translated the Latin in his hands back into Greek. According to NET notes, this gave us 17 variants, of which 22:19's discrepancy of "tree" -vs- "book" is most famous. So KJV, the first German Bible, the Martin bible (French), and others erroneously read "the book of life" ("vom Buch des Lebens," "le Livre de vie"), whereas the actual Greek, which Erasmus did not have, reads "the tree of life" ("????? ??? ????", "xylou tes zoes"). KJV gained this error because it is present in the RC's Vulgate Clementine: "...auferet Deus partem ejus de _libro_ vitae...". This is in fact an error introduced in the editing process of the older Vulgate Latina. What's interesting is that the Vulgate Latina did not have the error ("_ligno_ vitae"), and the Council of Trent declared the Vulgate Latina alone as "authentic in public readings, discourses, and disputes, and that nobody might dare or presume to reject it on any pretence." Yet subsequent to this the Vulgate Latina was "corrected" under Clement VIII. So one must wonder about a version already declared unassailable needing to be edited at all, and the newly-edited version gaining new errors, which in turn led to this and other errors in KJV. 2. 1Cor 13:8, in which KJV reads "but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; ... whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." But the Greek verb translated in both cases is the same, differing only in plural -vs- singular. Both Vulgate Clementine as well as Vulgate Latina are the source of KJV's error, because they identically read "evacuabuntur" and "destruetur". Modern translations uniformly pick one phrase for both Greek verbs' occurrence: - NASB, WEB, and ISV translate both as "done away" - ESV, both as "pass away" - NET, both as "set aside" - NAB (Catholic; USCCB), both as "brought to nothing" - NRSV, both as "come to an end." - La Bible du Semeur (French), "cesseront" and "cessera" - Pyh Raamattu (Finnish), both as "katoaa" The point here being, of course, that prophecies will not *FAIL*, ever, under any meaning of that word, even the meaning it had 4 centuries ago; rather, prophecies will no longer be needed. 3. thru N. A great many other examples of KJV errors could be listed, but I'd be cited for unsportsmanlike conduct. One may complain that NASB is too wooden, that NIV is too loose, that NET has odd choices of their own. But at least more modern translations have tried to get it more correct, and are not content to sit on known, documented, provable error and say, "Oh, everything's just fine," not able to be bothered with even trying to move past them. From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 10:00:49 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:00:49 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: References: <4DD48326.8030204@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD52291.6080006@bibleseven.com> > Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion > > is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' > > doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. > > This is a fallacy spread by many Baptists about Charismatics. I was *very careful* to use the qualifier *some*. I was intentional about *excluding any reasonable presumption that I was labeling all Charismatics*. I know for an *indisputable fact* that it is true of *some* because I have been in their churches and have been told so by their pastors! > I grew up Baptist. We arrived in Mexico in 1956, sent here by the > Baptist General Conference (Used to be the old Swedish Baptist.) And > I still work with many Baptist churches and friends (and dozens of > other denominations). And I have worked with many Charismatic > churches on five continents. I have NEVER met any of them who claim > that tongues are required for salvation. Your experience is different, but not all-inclusive. > There ARE some anti-Trinitarian pseudo-Pentecostal groups (I dare > NOT call them Christian!) who claim that nobody is saved, unless they > are baptised "in Jesus' Name. A few of these groups erroneously > teach that only those who speak in tongues are saved. But, guess > what? None of these heretical groups claim to be Charismatic. In Florida they do - there is a network of them that extend across the world - and they insist that they are Christian, more-Biblical than others, and Charismatic. > He has a B.A. from Bethel College and Seminaray, and an M. Div. from Gordon Conwell. I have a masters degree from Gordon-Conwell (a completed degree in marriage & family counseling and 2/3 of a MDiv) and a doctorate from Bethel University(was Bethel College) - Theological Seminary (in church leadership with an emphasis in spiritual formation/discipleship). Not that all of that matters much ... ;-) -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dlormand at smalltimer.net Thu May 19 11:00:46 2011 From: dlormand at smalltimer.net (David Ormand) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 08:00:46 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network, doctrine? Message-ID: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> >> I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion >> is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' >> doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. > This is a fallacy spread by many Baptists about Charismatics. I grew up > Baptist. We arrived in Mexico in 1956, sent here by the Baptist General > Conference (Used to be the old Swedish Baptist.) And I still work with many > Baptist churches and friends (and dozens of other denominations). And I have > worked with many Charismatic churches on five continents. I have NEVER met > any of them who claim that tongues are required for salvation. There may be a difference between official, written-down, taught by the denomination doctrine of "you must speak in tongues to be saved", and the unofficial, popular, held by lay and clergy alike litmus test of "if you don't speak in tongues, then you must not really be saved". I've visited charismatic groups, and had (Baptist background) friends attempt to join such churches. No, there's nothing in their Statement Of Belief of "speaking in tongues is required for salvation". But it isn't long before people there will ask you, "don't you speak in tongues? There must be something wrong with your salvation." I think we must recognize the difference between official doctrine and popular doctrine. Like, the Catholic Church may teach that Mary cannot save, but there are lots of (especially in Tucson, hispanic) Catholics who believe she can. And the Mormon church has lots of odd beliefs, but your typical Mormon missionaries who show up at your door will deny that the church really believes that. AND (to get on an old saw), there is no official Baptist position that drinking alcohol is a sin, but pretty much ALL of the former generation will condemn it as such. From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Thu May 19 11:08:02 2011 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (linc) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:08:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD53252.6070306@thelinuxlink.net> On 05/19/2011 09:23 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > Billy Staggs wrote: >>> fundamentalist with a King James Bible. > linc writes: >> Well, this "Fundy" loves his KJV too :) > Then you are content with all the known flaws of KJV, including: > > 1. Rev 22:19, mis-translation of "book" -vs- "tree". What one finds by > looking through translators' commentary about this is that it dates from > when Erasmus was editing what would eventually be called the Textus > Receptus (TR); he lacked a Greek manuscript for the end of Revelation, > so he translated the Latin in his hands back into Greek. According to > NET notes, this gave us 17 variants, of which 22:19's discrepancy of > "tree" -vs- "book" is most famous. So KJV, the first German Bible, the > Martin bible (French), and others erroneously read "the book of life" > ("vom Buch des Lebens," "le Livre de vie"), whereas the actual Greek, > which Erasmus did not have, reads "the tree of life" ("????? ??? ????", > "xylou tes zoes"). > > KJV gained this error because it is present in the RC's Vulgate > Clementine: "...auferet Deus partem ejus de _libro_ vitae...". This is > in fact an error introduced in the editing process of the older Vulgate > Latina. What's interesting is that the Vulgate Latina did not have the > error ("_ligno_ vitae"), and the Council of Trent declared the Vulgate > Latina alone as "authentic in public readings, discourses, and disputes, > and that nobody might dare or presume to reject it on any pretence." > Yet subsequent to this the Vulgate Latina was "corrected" under Clement > VIII. So one must wonder about a version already declared unassailable > needing to be edited at all, and the newly-edited version gaining new > errors, which in turn led to this and other errors in KJV. > > 2. 1Cor 13:8, in which KJV reads "but whether there be prophecies, they > shall fail; ... whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." But > the Greek verb translated in both cases is the same, differing only in > plural -vs- singular. Both Vulgate Clementine as well as Vulgate Latina > are the source of KJV's error, because they identically read > "evacuabuntur" and "destruetur". Modern translations uniformly pick one > phrase for both Greek verbs' occurrence: > > - NASB, WEB, and ISV translate both as "done away" > - ESV, both as "pass away" > - NET, both as "set aside" > - NAB (Catholic; USCCB), both as "brought to nothing" > - NRSV, both as "come to an end." > - La Bible du Semeur (French), "cesseront" and "cessera" > - Pyh Raamattu (Finnish), both as "katoaa" > > The point here being, of course, that prophecies will not *FAIL*, ever, > under any meaning of that word, even the meaning it had 4 centuries ago; > rather, prophecies will no longer be needed. > > 3. thru N. A great many other examples of KJV errors could be listed, > but I'd be cited for unsportsmanlike conduct. > > One may complain that NASB is too wooden, that NIV is too loose, that > NET has odd choices of their own. But at least more modern translations > have tried to get it more correct, and are not content to sit on known, > documented, provable error and say, "Oh, everything's just fine," not > able to be bothered with even trying to move past them. > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > There have been much better scholars than I that have debated the Textus Receptus vs Vulgate versions of the sacred texts. I just happen to prefer the former for some, what I believe to be, accuracy reasons, but mostly because I believe the KJV "speaks" to me. It's a beautiful work, really. Poetic in it's handling of the language. Before I was saved, I had a copy of the KJV and couldn't understand it. The words were alien to me. I would complain to people about all the the's and thou's in there and that it was nonsensical old gibberish. The moment I really accepted Christ, that all changed. The Holy spirit moved on me and I could not only understand those words but feel them in my spirit. That all being said, I believe that people should read the Bible for the truth that is in there and although my preference is for the KJV, what's really important, is that it's read, no matter what the version is that you prefer. The *real* teacher is the Holy Spirit (John 14:26) and he will lead you no matter what version you prefer as long as you are open and seeking. No sense in putting stumbling blocks before a brother and all that... All the really important stuff is contained in any version of the Bible, after all. From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 11:09:58 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 11:09:58 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Bible Translations ... Again [Was: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction?] In-Reply-To: <4DD53252.6070306@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD53252.6070306@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD532C6.4020004@bibleseven.com> Amen. > linc wrote: > That all being said, I believe that people should read the Bible for > the truth that is in there and although my preference is for the KJV, > what's really important, is that it's read, no matter what the > version is that you prefer. The *real* teacher is the Holy Spirit > (John 14:26) and he will lead you no matter what version you prefer > as long as you are open and seeking. No sense in putting stumbling > blocks before a brother and all that... All the really important > stuff is contained in any version of the Bible, after all. > _______________________________________________ -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Thu May 19 12:34:50 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:34:50 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: I'm going to have to agree with Linc here. Facebook is what you make of it. Yes, there are people who use Facebook for gossip, boasting, and celebration of sin. And there are those who use it to praise God, post and respond to prayer requests and other needs in one another's lives, and hold themselves and their friends accountable. You might as well say email is a cesspool and not worth using for spiritual discussions because people often use it for gossip and boasting -- not to mention illegal activities of all kinds. I have about 250 friends on Facebook -- not in the sense of "random strangers or friends-of-friends who requested friendship", but people I personally know and interact with. Of those, maybe half are friends from various churches I have attended, half are current or former colleagues from work, and half are childhood friends I've rediscovered after losing track of them for 30-40 years (obviously I wasn't a math major!) Five of them are Southern Baptist pastors in a conservative, rural part of the country. On Facebook, I can present the Gospel in a nonconfrontational way by discussing how God is working in my life, and all those people can see how it affects me personally. I have counseled friends who were spiritually troubled and expressed their frustration on their Facebook pages; I have countered criticisms of Christian faith by people who tend to apply a broad brush to all believers based on the idiotic actions of a few; I have done my best to be "salt and light", to be "in Facebook but not of Facebook" as it were. It's not any kind of replacement for a physical presence among the body of believers; it's a way I can share Christ 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with hundreds of people who read what I have to say. Explain to me again how that's a cesspool? We should be a city on a hilltop for all to see, not a light hidden under a basket. And right now, Facebook is where the most people will see whatever image we present -- be it a Christian image or a worldly one. Shalom, *PBS* On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:35 AM, linc wrote: > On 05/18/2011 10:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > I don't use Facebook. > > It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. > > All the more reason to maintain a presence there if you ask me. Jesus > didn't hang out in synagogues but among the common people. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 12:38:25 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:38:25 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> The world is a cesspool - as is everything it controls. Can one do evangelist-missions there, of course and we must, but I consider it irresponsible for Christian fellowships to use Facebook for institutional communications and discipleship. There are perfectly suitable Christi-honoring alternatives that do not expose those considering-Christ, baby Christians, and struggling believers to a tsunami of temptation. My observation is that choosing Facebook for institutional communications and discipleship represents ignorance of alternatives (laziness), carelessness (a failure to protect the sheep), and/or a deliberate excuse to be exposed to sin with 'holy water sprinked on it'. IMHO, YMMV ... > Explain to me again how that's a cesspool? > > We should be a city on a hilltop for all to see, not a light hidden > under a basket. And right now, Facebook is where the most people > will see whatever image we present -- be it a Christian image or a > worldly one. > > Shalom, */PBS/* > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:35 AM, linc > wrote: > > On 05/18/2011 10:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com > wrote: > > I don't use Facebook. > > > > It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. > > > All the more reason to maintain a presence there if you ask me. > Jesus didn't hang out in synagogues but among the common people. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From gorkon at gmail.com Thu May 19 13:14:25 2011 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:14:25 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community Message-ID: Plus we are to live in the world and not be OF the world. We need to go into the dark places in order On May 19, 2011 12:35 PM, "Peter B. Steiger" < webservant at trinitybclaramie.org> wrote: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Thu May 19 13:21:58 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:21:58 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network, doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> References: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> Message-ID: > I think we must recognize the difference between official doctrine and > popular doctrine. Like, the Catholic Church may teach that Mary cannot > save, but there are lots of (especially in Tucson, hispanic) Catholics > who believe she can. Brother Dave: Mary WAS officially declared "Co-Redemptrix with Christ" by the Vatican. The news made front cover on Time Magazine (30 April 2006). I have it here some place. It is just one more of Rome's many blasphemies concerning the mother of Jesus, along with "Mother of God" , "Queen of Heaven", her perpetual virginity, her immaculate conception, her role as intercessor for humanity, and her physical ascension into Heaven (while at the same time proclaiming her tomb is in Ephesus.). See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-Redemptrix Also do a Google search on COREDEMTRIX and CO-REDEMTRIX. Blessings, all! Brother Steve Central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6136 (20110519) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6136 (20110519) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:36:59 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:36:59 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DCF41D3.7090501@mindblowingidea.com> <1375856567.44582.1305470808760.JavaMail.mail@webmail19> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD5553B.3090409@mindblowingidea.com> Right On! On 05/19/2011 04:35 AM, linc wrote: > On 05/18/2011 10:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> I don't use Facebook. >> >> It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. >> > All the more reason to maintain a presence there if you ask me. Jesus > didn't hang out in synagogues but among the common people. > >> My observation has been that people who prefer electronic-church are >> intentionally avoiding accountability and intimacy -- those who have >> a legitimate *need* for such are rare, and most of those are temporary >> circumstances. >> >> The apostle Paul lamented the limitation of his imprisonment because >> it prevented him from being physically present, so did John on Patmos. >> >> IMHO, YMMV ... > > Mark 16:15 > He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to > all creation. > > There is an enormous community of people to reach on the internet. > Some, perhaps, that are disillusioned with the limited religious > community where they physically reside. I see the internet as an > opportunity to be taken, sort of like those people that broadcast > Christian radio into Christian hostile places like China. Also > remember Romans 8:28 > "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who > love him, whohave been called according to his purpose." > > That's my $.02 anyway. > <>< > --Linc. > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:39:36 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:39:36 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD555D8.20607@mindblowingidea.com> Every English translation is flawed. The KJV and the NIV were interpreted from two different Hebrew / Greek texts and so both of them contain scriptures the other does not. The other issue is that the Bible can be seen in so many dimensions and can speak to us in so many different ways that for one person to be able to understand and convey all the meanings in English is truly a miracle in it's self. On 05/19/2011 06:23 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > Billy Staggs wrote: >>> fundamentalist with a King James Bible. > linc writes: >> Well, this "Fundy" loves his KJV too :) > Then you are content with all the known flaws of KJV, including: > > 1. Rev 22:19, mis-translation of "book" -vs- "tree". What one finds by > looking through translators' commentary about this is that it dates from > when Erasmus was editing what would eventually be called the Textus > Receptus (TR); he lacked a Greek manuscript for the end of Revelation, > so he translated the Latin in his hands back into Greek. According to > NET notes, this gave us 17 variants, of which 22:19's discrepancy of > "tree" -vs- "book" is most famous. So KJV, the first German Bible, the > Martin bible (French), and others erroneously read "the book of life" > ("vom Buch des Lebens," "le Livre de vie"), whereas the actual Greek, > which Erasmus did not have, reads "the tree of life" ("????? ??? ????", > "xylou tes zoes"). > > KJV gained this error because it is present in the RC's Vulgate > Clementine: "...auferet Deus partem ejus de _libro_ vitae...". This is > in fact an error introduced in the editing process of the older Vulgate > Latina. What's interesting is that the Vulgate Latina did not have the > error ("_ligno_ vitae"), and the Council of Trent declared the Vulgate > Latina alone as "authentic in public readings, discourses, and disputes, > and that nobody might dare or presume to reject it on any pretence." > Yet subsequent to this the Vulgate Latina was "corrected" under Clement > VIII. So one must wonder about a version already declared unassailable > needing to be edited at all, and the newly-edited version gaining new > errors, which in turn led to this and other errors in KJV. > > 2. 1Cor 13:8, in which KJV reads "but whether there be prophecies, they > shall fail; ... whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." But > the Greek verb translated in both cases is the same, differing only in > plural -vs- singular. Both Vulgate Clementine as well as Vulgate Latina > are the source of KJV's error, because they identically read > "evacuabuntur" and "destruetur". Modern translations uniformly pick one > phrase for both Greek verbs' occurrence: > > - NASB, WEB, and ISV translate both as "done away" > - ESV, both as "pass away" > - NET, both as "set aside" > - NAB (Catholic; USCCB), both as "brought to nothing" > - NRSV, both as "come to an end." > - La Bible du Semeur (French), "cesseront" and "cessera" > - Pyh Raamattu (Finnish), both as "katoaa" > > The point here being, of course, that prophecies will not *FAIL*, ever, > under any meaning of that word, even the meaning it had 4 centuries ago; > rather, prophecies will no longer be needed. > > 3. thru N. A great many other examples of KJV errors could be listed, > but I'd be cited for unsportsmanlike conduct. > > One may complain that NASB is too wooden, that NIV is too loose, that > NET has odd choices of their own. But at least more modern translations > have tried to get it more correct, and are not content to sit on known, > documented, provable error and say, "Oh, everything's just fine," not > able to be bothered with even trying to move past them. > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:41:15 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:41:15 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network, doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> References: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> Message-ID: <4DD5563B.9020505@mindblowingidea.com> My Father was Pentecostal / Charismatic and tried to tell me that you had to speak in toungs to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It does happen. Their Church and entire family thought and taught that way. On 05/19/2011 08:00 AM, David Ormand wrote: >>> I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion >>> is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' >>> doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. > >> This is a fallacy spread by many Baptists about Charismatics. I grew up >> Baptist. We arrived in Mexico in 1956, sent here by the Baptist General >> Conference (Used to be the old Swedish Baptist.) And I still work >> with many >> Baptist churches and friends (and dozens of other denominations). >> And I have >> worked with many Charismatic churches on five continents. I have >> NEVER met >> any of them who claim that tongues are required for salvation. > > There may be a difference between official, written-down, taught by the > denomination doctrine of "you must speak in tongues to be saved", and > the unofficial, popular, held by lay and clergy alike litmus test of > "if you don't speak in tongues, then you must not really be saved". > > I've visited charismatic groups, and had (Baptist background) friends > attempt to join such churches. No, there's nothing in their Statement > Of Belief of "speaking in tongues is required for salvation". But it > isn't long before people there will ask you, "don't you speak in > tongues? There must be something wrong with your salvation." > > I think we must recognize the difference between official doctrine and > popular doctrine. Like, the Catholic Church may teach that Mary cannot > save, but there are lots of (especially in Tucson, hispanic) Catholics > who believe she can. And the Mormon church has lots of odd beliefs, but > your typical Mormon missionaries who show up at your door will deny that > the church really believes that. AND (to get on an old saw), there is > no official Baptist position that drinking alcohol is a sin, but pretty > much ALL of the former generation will condemn it as such. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:42:38 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:42:38 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Bible Translations ... Again [Was: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction?] In-Reply-To: <4DD532C6.4020004@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD53252.6070306@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD532C6.4020004@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD5568E.2060703@mindblowingidea.com> YES The real teacher is the Holy Spirit and this is how you have a "Personal Revelation" On 05/19/2011 08:09 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Amen. > >> linc wrote: >> That all being said, I believe that people should read the Bible for >> the truth that is in there and although my preference is for the KJV, >> what's really important, is that it's read, no matter what the >> version is that you prefer. The *real* teacher is the Holy Spirit >> (John 14:26) and he will lead you no matter what version you prefer >> as long as you are open and seeking. No sense in putting stumbling >> blocks before a brother and all that... All the really important >> stuff is contained in any version of the Bible, after all. >> _______________________________________________ > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:44:28 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:44:28 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> I think Myspace is a much worse cesspool than Facebook On 05/19/2011 09:34 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > I'm going to have to agree with Linc here. Facebook is what you make > of it. Yes, there are people who use Facebook for gossip, boasting, > and celebration of sin. And there are those who use it to praise God, > post and respond to prayer requests and other needs in one another's > lives, and hold themselves and their friends accountable. You might > as well say email is a cesspool and not worth using for spiritual > discussions because people often use it for gossip and boasting -- not > to mention illegal activities of all kinds. > > I have about 250 friends on Facebook -- not in the sense of "random > strangers or friends-of-friends who requested friendship", but people > I personally know and interact with. Of those, maybe half are friends > from various churches I have attended, half are current or former > colleagues from work, and half are childhood friends I've rediscovered > after losing track of them for 30-40 years (obviously I wasn't a math > major!) Five of them are Southern Baptist pastors in a conservative, > rural part of the country. > > On Facebook, I can present the Gospel in a nonconfrontational way by > discussing how God is working in my life, and all those people can see > how it affects me personally. I have counseled friends who were > spiritually troubled and expressed their frustration on their Facebook > pages; I have countered criticisms of Christian faith by people who > tend to apply a broad brush to all believers based on the idiotic > actions of a few; I have done my best to be "salt and light", to be > "in Facebook but not of Facebook" as it were. It's not any kind of > replacement for a physical presence among the body of believers; it's > a way I can share Christ 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, with hundreds > of people who read what I have to say. > > Explain to me again how that's a cesspool? > > We should be a city on a hilltop for all to see, not a light hidden > under a basket. And right now, Facebook is where the most people will > see whatever image we present -- be it a Christian image or a worldly one. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:35 AM, linc > wrote: > > On 05/18/2011 10:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com > wrote: >> I don't use Facebook. >> >> It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. >> > All the more reason to maintain a presence there if you ask me. > Jesus didn't hang out in synagogues but among the common people. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:45:51 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:45:51 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD5574F.1000109@mindblowingidea.com> Is there an Internet newspaper that we can write on and respond to people personally? Do we have to pay money to use this newspaper? Facebook is free and open source. On 05/19/2011 09:38 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > The world is a cesspool - as is everything it controls. > > Can one do evangelist-missions there, of course and we must, > but I consider it irresponsible for Christian fellowships to use > Facebook for institutional communications and discipleship. > > There are perfectly suitable Christi-honoring alternatives that > do not expose those considering-Christ, baby Christians, and > struggling believers to a tsunami of temptation. > > My observation is that choosing Facebook for institutional > communications and discipleship represents ignorance of > alternatives (laziness), carelessness (a failure to protect the > sheep), and/or a deliberate excuse to be exposed to sin with > 'holy water sprinked on it'. > > IMHO, YMMV ... > >> Explain to me again how that's a cesspool? >> >> We should be a city on a hilltop for all to see, not a light hidden >> under a basket. And right now, Facebook is where the most people >> will see whatever image we present -- be it a Christian image or a >> worldly one. >> >> Shalom, */PBS/* >> >> On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 5:35 AM, linc > > wrote: >> >> On 05/18/2011 10:26 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com >> wrote: >> > I don't use Facebook. >> > >> > It is an open-sewer of exhibitionism, gossip, and voyeurism. >> > >> All the more reason to maintain a presence there if you ask me. >> Jesus didn't hang out in synagogues but among the common people. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From karl at kleinpaste.org Thu May 19 13:46:46 2011 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:46:46 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD53252.6070306@thelinuxlink.net> (linc's message of "Thu, 19 May 2011 11:08:02 -0400") References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD53252.6070306@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: The underlying point for all of this is, of course, that the best Bible to use is one that you will read. If that's The Message... well, it makes me wince, but so be it. That said, however, I won't use KJV in a serious sense any more than I would drive a Model-T on I80, for exactly the same reason. At this time, a Model-T is an anachronism, primitive in its design and capability, lagging far too behind modern mechanical and fuel system research to be interesting in a practical sense. It has hugely important historical placement and is due immense respect on that basis, but it is not really appropriate now. From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:48:10 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:48:10 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4DD557DA.4050709@mindblowingidea.com> We are in the age of computers and mass communication. You want to go back into the dark ages. Maybe that is where God has called you and if so great! God has called me to write a Linux distribution known as JULinux and to use it to promote Christianity and in order to do that I have to promote it on Facebook, Twitter, digg, stumbleupon, myspace, youtube, ect. I also use these avenues to share about Christianity. On 05/19/2011 10:14 AM, Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > > Plus we are to live in the world and not be OF the world. We need to > go into the dark places in order > > On May 19, 2011 12:35 PM, "Peter B. Steiger" > > wrote: > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu May 19 13:51:37 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:51:37 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> Karl, I respect your right to read and study any translation that you are comfortable with, and I have no desire to turn this into a "my version is better than your version" debate, but let's be fair here, NO translation is without problem. Considering the enormity of the task I am amazed at the quality the English speaking world has in abundance. By endorsing the KJV I never attacked or criticized any other versions; however I know that this is a sensitive topic on both sides and you may have mistaken my support of the KJV with that of the overlay zealous mentality of some "KJV-onlyist". Like many others before me, the King James is my chosen Bible. I did not start out with the KJV. In fact I started with a NKJV and then a NASB but over time gravitated to the point where the KJV is my "primary" translation. I would hear someone quote a verse from the KJV and then I would read it from mine and felt as though it just lost something. There is a poetic beauty, a sense of reverence that comes from Elizabethan English that for me is unequaled by modern language. "What light through yonder windows breaks?" may convey the same meaning as "What up with that light?", but it does "take the shine off it". I know that it doesn't work for everyone and that's fine, but again let's be fair and not quote issues with some versions and omitt any critizen of our own. I have spent a lot of time reading/studying about textual variances and translationions, though I often wonder if the time would have not be better spent study the Bible itself, and have come to a place where I am comfortable with the KJV as my "primary" Bible. I will use the NKJV to help out where the older English gets difficult (particularity in Bible study or with young people), plus I like the footnotes showing deviation among the manuscripts. I often consult the NASB for it's literal accuracy (thought I prefer the 1977 version to the 1995) and (brace yourself...) the NLT for a more dynamic perspective. But again let me restate, there are problems with every translation and the modern ones are no differnet. They have had to make compromises and even force to make calls on the validity of manuscripts that the KJV translates were not forced to. Did they make the correct calls? Should they have even considered the "Critical Text" at all? Should they have given such weight to an older manuscript even thought it is opposed by an overwhelming number of contradictory manuscripts? Regardless of our own personal opinions, even modern scholars are divided over these. So "my" solution is to make it my practice to consider a version from the TR/M and one from the NU as well, giving the node to the KJV due to 400 years of trust. I am resisting the urge to counter site textual discrepancies from modern versions as it would not doubt only fuel and ongoing debate that when all was said and done we would have resolved nothing. For anyone interested in further study on this, a simple internet search on "Critical Text" will yield enough information to keep yourself busy for some time. I personal find this site (I have no afflication with it) http://www.bible-researcher.com/versions.html to be very informative and consise. Honestly, I feel Bless to have at my disposal a modern computer with Bible software that allow me to have such a vast array of study aids. My iPad has become a very useful tool and I wonder how I ever got alone without it. The best Bible translation is the one that you will read and follow! Sincerely, -- bstaggs <>< On 5/19/2011 8:23 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > > Then you are content with all the known flaws of KJV, including: > > 1. Rev 22:19, mis-translation of "book" -vs- "tree". What one finds by > looking through translators' commentary about this is that it dates from > when Erasmus was editing what would eventually be called the Textus > Receptus (TR); he lacked a Greek manuscript for the end of Revelation, > so he translated the Latin in his hands back into Greek. According to > NET notes, this gave us 17 variants, of which 22:19's discrepancy of > "tree" -vs- "book" is most famous. So KJV, the first German Bible, the > Martin bible (French), and others erroneously read "the book of life" > ("vom Buch des Lebens," "le Livre de vie"), whereas the actual Greek, > which Erasmus did not have, reads "the tree of life" ("????? ??? ????", > "xylou tes zoes"). > > KJV gained this error because it is present in the RC's Vulgate > Clementine: "...auferet Deus partem ejus de _libro_ vitae...". This is > in fact an error introduced in the editing process of the older Vulgate > Latina. What's interesting is that the Vulgate Latina did not have the > error ("_ligno_ vitae"), and the Council of Trent declared the Vulgate > Latina alone as "authentic in public readings, discourses, and disputes, > and that nobody might dare or presume to reject it on any pretence." > Yet subsequent to this the Vulgate Latina was "corrected" under Clement > VIII. So one must wonder about a version already declared unassailable > needing to be edited at all, and the newly-edited version gaining new > errors, which in turn led to this and other errors in KJV. > > 2. 1Cor 13:8, in which KJV reads "but whether there be prophecies, they > shall fail; ... whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." But > the Greek verb translated in both cases is the same, differing only in > plural -vs- singular. Both Vulgate Clementine as well as Vulgate Latina > are the source of KJV's error, because they identically read > "evacuabuntur" and "destruetur". Modern translations uniformly pick one > phrase for both Greek verbs' occurrence: > > - NASB, WEB, and ISV translate both as "done away" > - ESV, both as "pass away" > - NET, both as "set aside" > - NAB (Catholic; USCCB), both as "brought to nothing" > - NRSV, both as "come to an end." > - La Bible du Semeur (French), "cesseront" and "cessera" > - Pyh Raamattu (Finnish), both as "katoaa" > > The point here being, of course, that prophecies will not *FAIL*, ever, > under any meaning of that word, even the meaning it had 4 centuries ago; > rather, prophecies will no longer be needed. > > 3. thru N. A great many other examples of KJV errors could be listed, > but I'd be cited for unsportsmanlike conduct. > > One may complain that NASB is too wooden, that NIV is too loose, that > NET has odd choices of their own. But at least more modern translations > have tried to get it more correct, and are not content to sit on known, > documented, provable error and say, "Oh, everything's just fine," not > able to be bothered with even trying to move past them. > _______________________________________________ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 13:49:03 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:49:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> Could be, so the same applies, fine for mature and prayer-covered and accountable Christians to use for evangelistic-missions -- irresponsible to use for internal fellowship communications and discipleship. I am not sure why this is so hard for Christians to comprehend. Jesus took those He was discipling *apart from the world* and the apostles continued that practice. Facebook drags believers out of a safe believers-only protected context and asks them to fellowship and learn in the middle of sinners-alley. It simply is not Biblical. It should be viewed the same as home schooling a child in a brothel/bar-room -- it's "child endangement" of "God's kids". > usacomputertech wrote: > I think Myspace is a much worse cesspool than Facebook -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 13:50:05 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:50:05 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD5574F.1000109@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> <4DD5574F.1000109@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD5584D.5000106@bibleseven.com> There are several intentionally-Christian alternatives! We have discussed them here in the past. > usacomputertech wrote: > Is there an Internet newspaper that we can write on and respond to > people personally? Do we have to pay money to use this newspaper? > Facebook is free and open source. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:56:09 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:56:09 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD559B9.5030004@mindblowingidea.com> No. Jesus got on a mountain and gave the sermon on the mount and spoke to everyone. Pharisees, criminals, sinners, the rich, poor, ect. Jesus was public. Jesus preached in the public synagogues and temples. On 05/19/2011 10:49 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Could be, so the same applies, fine for mature and prayer-covered > and accountable Christians to use for evangelistic-missions -- > irresponsible to use for internal fellowship communications and > discipleship. > > I am not sure why this is so hard for Christians to comprehend. > > Jesus took those He was discipling *apart from the world* and > the apostles continued that practice. > > Facebook drags believers out of a safe believers-only protected > context and asks them to fellowship and learn in the middle of > sinners-alley. > > It simply is not Biblical. > > It should be viewed the same as home schooling a child in a > brothel/bar-room -- it's "child endangement" of "God's kids". > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> I think Myspace is a much worse cesspool than Facebook > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:56:45 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:56:45 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD5584D.5000106@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> <4DD5574F.1000109@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5584D.5000106@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD559DD.4030105@mindblowingidea.com> And who will read what we say? existing Christians and religious hypocrites? On 05/19/2011 10:50 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > There are several intentionally-Christian alternatives! > > We have discussed them here in the past. > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> Is there an Internet newspaper that we can write on and respond to >> people personally? Do we have to pay money to use this newspaper? >> Facebook is free and open source. > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 13:58:52 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 10:58:52 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> To get the best interpretation I put the KJV, NIV, ASV, NKJV, ect. side by side and read the same scripture. What I find is that there is either a huge mistake made or that there is twice the text / idioms that one translation brings to the table. This is how you can (with the Holy Spirit) get the full meaning of the word of God. On 05/19/2011 10:51 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Karl, > > I respect your right to read and study any translation that you are > comfortable with, and I have no desire to turn this into a "my version > is better than your version" debate, but let's be fair here, NO > translation is without problem. Considering the enormity of the task I > am amazed at the quality the English speaking world has in abundance. > By endorsing the KJV I never attacked or criticized any other > versions; however I know that this is a sensitive topic on both sides > and you may have mistaken my support of the KJV with that of the > overlay zealous mentality of some "KJV-onlyist". > > Like many others before me, the King James is my chosen Bible. I did > not start out with the KJV. In fact I started with a NKJV and then a > NASB but over time gravitated to the point where the KJV is my > "primary" translation. I would hear someone quote a verse from the KJV > and then I would read it from mine and felt as though it just lost > something. There is a poetic beauty, a sense of reverence that comes > from Elizabethan English that for me is unequaled by modern language. > "What light through yonder windows breaks?" may convey the same > meaning as "What up with that light?", but it does "take the shine off > it". I know that it doesn't work for everyone and that's fine, but > again let's be fair and not quote issues with some versions and omitt > any critizen of our own. > > I have spent a lot of time reading/studying about textual variances > and translationions, though I often wonder if the time would have not > be better spent study the Bible itself, and have come to a place where > I am comfortable with the KJV as my "primary" Bible. I will use the > NKJV to help out where the older English gets difficult (particularity > in Bible study or with young people), plus I like the footnotes > showing deviation among the manuscripts. I often consult the NASB for > it's literal accuracy (thought I prefer the 1977 version to the 1995) > and (brace yourself...) the NLT for a more dynamic perspective. But > again let me restate, there are problems with every translation and > the modern ones are no differnet. They have had to make compromises > and even force to make calls on the validity of manuscripts that the > KJV translates were not forced to. Did they make the correct calls? > Should they have even considered the "Critical Text" at all? Should > they have given such weight to an older manuscript even thought it is > opposed by an overwhelming number of contradictory manuscripts? > Regardless of our own personal opinions, even modern scholars are > divided over these. So "my" solution is to make it my practice to > consider a version from the TR/M and one from the NU as well, giving > the node to the KJV due to 400 years of trust. I am resisting the > urge to counter site textual discrepancies from modern versions as it > would not doubt only fuel and ongoing debate that when all was said > and done we would have resolved nothing. > > For anyone interested in further study on this, a simple internet > search on "Critical Text" will yield enough information to keep > yourself busy for some time. I personal find this site (I have no > afflication with it) http://www.bible-researcher.com/versions.html to > be very informative and consise. > > Honestly, I feel Bless to have at my disposal a modern computer with > Bible software that allow me to have such a vast array of study aids. > My iPad has become a very useful tool and I wonder how I ever got > alone without it. > > The best Bible translation is the one that you will read and follow! > > > Sincerely, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > > > On 5/19/2011 8:23 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: >> >> Then you are content with all the known flaws of KJV, including: >> >> 1. Rev 22:19, mis-translation of "book" -vs- "tree". What one finds by >> looking through translators' commentary about this is that it dates from >> when Erasmus was editing what would eventually be called the Textus >> Receptus (TR); he lacked a Greek manuscript for the end of Revelation, >> so he translated the Latin in his hands back into Greek. According to >> NET notes, this gave us 17 variants, of which 22:19's discrepancy of >> "tree" -vs- "book" is most famous. So KJV, the first German Bible, the >> Martin bible (French), and others erroneously read "the book of life" >> ("vom Buch des Lebens," "le Livre de vie"), whereas the actual Greek, >> which Erasmus did not have, reads "the tree of life" ("????? ??? ????", >> "xylou tes zoes"). >> >> KJV gained this error because it is present in the RC's Vulgate >> Clementine: "...auferet Deus partem ejus de _libro_ vitae...". This is >> in fact an error introduced in the editing process of the older Vulgate >> Latina. What's interesting is that the Vulgate Latina did not have the >> error ("_ligno_ vitae"), and the Council of Trent declared the Vulgate >> Latina alone as "authentic in public readings, discourses, and disputes, >> and that nobody might dare or presume to reject it on any pretence." >> Yet subsequent to this the Vulgate Latina was "corrected" under Clement >> VIII. So one must wonder about a version already declared unassailable >> needing to be edited at all, and the newly-edited version gaining new >> errors, which in turn led to this and other errors in KJV. >> >> 2. 1Cor 13:8, in which KJV reads "but whether there be prophecies, they >> shall fail; ... whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away." But >> the Greek verb translated in both cases is the same, differing only in >> plural -vs- singular. Both Vulgate Clementine as well as Vulgate Latina >> are the source of KJV's error, because they identically read >> "evacuabuntur" and "destruetur". Modern translations uniformly pick one >> phrase for both Greek verbs' occurrence: >> >> - NASB, WEB, and ISV translate both as "done away" >> - ESV, both as "pass away" >> - NET, both as "set aside" >> - NAB (Catholic; USCCB), both as "brought to nothing" >> - NRSV, both as "come to an end." >> - La Bible du Semeur (French), "cesseront" and "cessera" >> - Pyh Raamattu (Finnish), both as "katoaa" >> >> The point here being, of course, that prophecies will not *FAIL*, ever, >> under any meaning of that word, even the meaning it had 4 centuries ago; >> rather, prophecies will no longer be needed. >> >> 3. thru N. A great many other examples of KJV errors could be listed, >> but I'd be cited for unsportsmanlike conduct. >> >> One may complain that NASB is too wooden, that NIV is too loose, that >> NET has odd choices of their own. But at least more modern translations >> have tried to get it more correct, and are not content to sit on known, >> documented, provable error and say, "Oh, everything's just fine," not >> able to be bothered with even trying to move past them. >> _______________________________________________ >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 14:08:08 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:08:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Translations - again [Was: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction?] In-Reply-To: <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD55C88.50208@bibleseven.com> It is correct that it is largely a matter of personal preference. Old is irrelevant to accurate. New is irrelevant to accurate. Accurate is the only thing relevant to accurate. All translations are imperfect due to translator bias and error. The more transparent the translators the more trustworthy the translation - as one may observe what they decided about the difficult texts, and why, and what they excluded (or rendered significantly differently than others) and why - then make an informed decision. This is why I prefer the NET but use a variety of translations for various reasons - but mostly for perspective when the NET rendering and notes fail to communicate or fail to persuade. I also find that studying a Bible with translator's notes is humbling - one recognizes the daunting task they face and that the Lord God has called and equipped very few to be adequate to the task. I cannot use the KJV because the antiquated Elizabethian-English puts me in a Shakespeare mindset which is terribly distracting. That's a personal preference. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 14:09:42 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:09:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD559DD.4030105@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> <4DD5574F.1000109@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5584D.5000106@bibleseven.com> <4DD559DD.4030105@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD55CE6.2010500@bibleseven.com> You are missing my point. YES - evangelistic-missions. NO - internal communications and *believer discipleship* > usacomputertech wrote: And who will read what we say? existing > Christians and religious hypocrites? -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 14:13:18 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:13:18 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD559B9.5030004@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> <4DD559B9.5030004@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD55DBE.6080202@bibleseven.com> Jesus *did not* always disciple in public. He very clearly took people aside on a regular basis - for a very good reason. The abandonment of a believer-specific *safe* context for communication and discipleship is wrong-headed. We must *get apart* as in the Biblically-described "upper room". > usacomputertech wrote: > No. Jesus got on a mountain and gave the sermon on the mount and > spoke to everyone. Pharisees, criminals, sinners, the rich, poor, > ect. Jesus was public. Jesus preached in the public synagogues and > temples. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From karl at kleinpaste.org Thu May 19 14:19:33 2011 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:19:33 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> (usacomputertech@mindblowingidea.com's message of "Thu, 19 May 2011 10:58:52 -0700") References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: usacomputertech writes: > To get the best interpretation I put the KJV, NIV, ASV, NKJV, ect. side by side *ding* Yes. That is why my usual tab set when studying in my tool consists of: NET - NETmaps - 2TGreek - ESV - NASB - NIV (in rough order of preference), and then some atlases and other textual works like systematic theologies. I keep a maps module close at hand because I never realized how much context I was missing from Biblical histories until I had instant access to maps as I studied. From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu May 19 14:33:50 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:33:50 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network, doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD5563B.9020505@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> <4DD5563B.9020505@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD5628E.8040102@staggs.net> I have been Pentecostal (not a Oneness by the way) for 25+ years and I have never personally heard anyone claim that speaking in tongues was necessary for Salvation. Not saying that they don't, just that I have never witnessed it. There are however some Pentecostals that endorse the position that speaking in tongues is the (read required) evidence that one has been filled. A postion that I have not (,do not) nor, any Pastors I sat under have ever supported. There is a (dare I say) "lunatic fringe" in every denomination.... sometimes more than one. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/19/2011 12:41 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > My Father was Pentecostal / Charismatic and tried to tell me that you > had to speak in toungs to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It does > happen. Their Church and entire family thought and taught that way. > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Thu May 19 15:08:03 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:08:03 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD00D2C.2030102@bibleseven.com> <1884456247.49311.1305498035432.JavaMail.mail@webmail17> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <2329E4A4-F1DD-4440-9A70-1B4BE8169C67@ofb.biz> On May 19, 2011, at 11:38 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > There are perfectly suitable Christi-honoring alternatives that > do not expose those considering-Christ, baby Christians, and > struggling believers to a tsunami of temptation. I'm not sure, I hear about the temptation and like on Facebook... but I've been on there for almost five years and never found anything particularly tempting or cess poolish about it. The thing is, Facebook is what you make it. If your friends are all cursing like sailors and posting scantily clad pictures, sure, your Facebook may be a cess pool. But, neither my non-Christian nor Christian friends fit that category, so it isn't. I think saying Facebook is a cess pool is sort of like saying the Internet is, and therefore we ought not use the Internet for outreach. Facebook is far more ubiquitous than other ways of communicating on the Internet (other than e-mail) and actually tries relatively hard to keep itself in check. -Tim From tbutler at ofb.biz Thu May 19 15:14:41 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 14:14:41 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD55DBE.6080202@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> <4DD559B9.5030004@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD55DBE.6080202@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On May 19, 2011, at 1:13 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > The abandonment of a believer-specific *safe* context for > communication and discipleship is wrong-headed. So -- and I don't mean this to sound abrasive -- why use the Internet and not a "Christian alternative"? One gets a whole lot closer to a brothel by putting an Internet connection into the home than one ever will be being on Facebook by itself. -Tim From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 15:19:10 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:19:10 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD55DBE.6080202@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> <4DD559B9.5030004@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD55DBE.6080202@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD56D2E.1040405@mindblowingidea.com> For everything there is a time. On 05/19/2011 11:13 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Jesus *did not* always disciple in public. > > He very clearly took people aside on a regular basis - for a > very good reason. > > The abandonment of a believer-specific *safe* context for > communication and discipleship is wrong-headed. > > We must *get apart* as in the Biblically-described "upper room". > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> No. Jesus got on a mountain and gave the sermon on the mount and >> spoke to everyone. Pharisees, criminals, sinners, the rich, poor, >> ect. Jesus was public. Jesus preached in the public synagogues and >> temples. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 15:21:54 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:21:54 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network, doctrine? In-Reply-To: <4DD5628E.8040102@staggs.net> References: <4DD5309E.8000703@smalltimer.net> <4DD5563B.9020505@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5628E.8040102@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD56DD2.4050405@mindblowingidea.com> I think the lunatic fringe or whatever the error is in each denomination is ignored by many experienced pastors who have spent serious time seeking God for His truth. They usually come to the revelation on their own with God that there are errors in their denomination and what they were taught by men. On 05/19/2011 11:33 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > I have been Pentecostal (not a Oneness by the way) for 25+ years and I > have never personally heard anyone claim that speaking in tongues was > necessary for Salvation. Not saying that they don't, just that I have > never witnessed it. > > There are however some Pentecostals that endorse the position that > speaking in tongues is the (read required) evidence that one has been > filled. A postion that I have not (,do not) nor, any Pastors I sat > under have ever supported. > > There is a (dare I say) "lunatic fringe" in every denomination.... > sometimes more than one. > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 5/19/2011 12:41 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >> My Father was Pentecostal / Charismatic and tried to tell me that you >> had to speak in toungs to be filled with the Holy Spirit. It does >> happen. Their Church and entire family thought and taught that way. >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 15:27:41 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:27:41 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <2329E4A4-F1DD-4440-9A70-1B4BE8169C67@ofb.biz> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD05A08.6020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD08EB5.3080407@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> <2329E4A4-F1DD-4440-9A70-1B4BE8169C67@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4DD56F2D.2080803@mindblowingidea.com> Most converts are already at the bottom of their pit and are living a life of sin already but don't know what to do about the problems in their life and are desperate for a solution. God is presented to them and usually they accept. Temptation has nothing to do with it because they are already in a pit of temptation. On 05/19/2011 12:08 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > On May 19, 2011, at 11:38 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > >> There are perfectly suitable Christi-honoring alternatives that >> do not expose those considering-Christ, baby Christians, and >> struggling believers to a tsunami of temptation. > I'm not sure, I hear about the temptation and like on Facebook... but I've been on there for almost five years and never found anything particularly tempting or cess poolish about it. > > The thing is, Facebook is what you make it. If your friends are all cursing like sailors and posting scantily clad pictures, sure, your Facebook may be a cess pool. But, neither my non-Christian nor Christian friends fit that category, so it isn't. > > I think saying Facebook is a cess pool is sort of like saying the Internet is, and therefore we ought not use the Internet for outreach. Facebook is far more ubiquitous than other ways of communicating on the Internet (other than e-mail) and actually tries relatively hard to keep itself in check. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 15:28:57 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:28:57 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD556FC.10108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5580F.7080207@bibleseven.com> <4DD559B9.5030004@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD55DBE.6080202@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD56F79.6080409@mindblowingidea.com> Very true. Old Windows Joke. To prevent viruses you need to get protection. Unplug your Internet cable and put a condom over it and then plug it back in. On 05/19/2011 12:14 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > On May 19, 2011, at 1:13 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > >> The abandonment of a believer-specific *safe* context for >> communication and discipleship is wrong-headed. > So -- and I don't mean this to sound abrasive -- why use the Internet and not a "Christian alternative"? One gets a whole lot closer to a brothel by putting an Internet connection into the home than one ever will be being on Facebook by itself. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 15:30:08 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 12:30:08 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Open Source Christian Community In-Reply-To: <4DD55CE6.2010500@bibleseven.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <4DD09117.6000500@bibleseven.com> <848620.55219.qm@web1116.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD16E3A.1050108@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD19BF2.8070507@bibleseven.com> <777496.21565.qm@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4DD1AA0E.2040303@staggs.net> <4DD2B913.5090407@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3000C.1090507@staggs.net> <4DD30D24.3080900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD34A47.7080709@staggs.net> <4DD34C55.6020501@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD3556F.7070201@staggs.net> <4DD36C6F.4010107@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD47FE0.90908@bibleseven.com> <4DD5008C.6060307@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD54781.7060402@bibleseven.com> <4DD5574F.1000109@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD5584D.5000106@bibleseven.com> <4DD559DD.4030105@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD55CE6.2010500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD56FC0.2020908@mindblowingidea.com> What if we are the ones who were sent to them by God and they have no other means of communicating? God is big enough and strong enough to use anything. On 05/19/2011 11:09 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > You are missing my point. > > YES - evangelistic-missions. > > NO - internal communications and *believer discipleship* > >> usacomputertech wrote: And who will read what we say? existing >> Christians and religious hypocrites? > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Thu May 19 15:49:10 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:49:10 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: When I have the slightest bit of uncertainty over how to interpret a passage, I don't just go to any translation... I go to the earliest possible Greek sources with an Interlinear tool that displays the original Greek or Hebrew, a transliterated pronunciation guide, an *exact* word-for-word translation, and a modern translation for comparison purposes. If you think translating from ancient Greek is straightforward, try this on for size: "Thus for loves the God the system(world) as besides the [son-of-Him] the [only-generated] [He-gives] that every the [one-believing] into Him no [should-be-being-destroyed] but [may-be-having] life everlasting." John 3:16, right? The phrases in brackets are all one word in Greek, e.g. "apoletai" is "should be being destroyed". It gives me a greater respect for the linguistic experts who worked on any translation! Shalom, *PBS* On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:58 AM, usacomputertech < usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com> wrote: > To get the best interpretation I put the KJV, NIV, ASV, NKJV, ect. side by > side and read the same scripture. What I find is that there is either a huge > mistake made or that there is twice the text / idioms that one translation > brings to the table. This is how you can (with the Holy Spirit) get the full > meaning of the word of God. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu May 19 17:00:48 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 16:00:48 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD58500.30609@staggs.net> I find my software interlinear to be fascinating, but with my limited knowledge of the original languages, I am very cautious about my findings. I have read where some Biblical scholars warn about the dangers of a "Strongs" in the wrong hands. :-) I have toyed with the notion of seriously pursuing some Biblical Greek studies, but my limited time is probably best served reading, studying and applying my English Bibles to my own walk. I am not completely certain I have come to a full grasp of the English language now. Oh to be young again...... -- bstaggs <>< On 5/19/2011 2:49 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > When I have the slightest bit of uncertainty over how to interpret a > passage, I don't just go to any translation... I go to the earliest > possible Greek sources with an Interlinear tool that displays the > original Greek or Hebrew, a transliterated pronunciation guide, an > *exact* word-for-word translation, and a modern translation for > comparison purposes. > > If you think translating from ancient Greek is straightforward, try > this on for size: > "Thus for loves the God the system(world) as besides the [son-of-Him] > the [only-generated] [He-gives] that every the [one-believing] into > Him no [should-be-being-destroyed] but [may-be-having] life everlasting." > > John 3:16, right? The phrases in brackets are all one word in Greek, > e.g. "apoletai" is "should be being destroyed". It gives me a greater > respect for the linguistic experts who worked on any translation! > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htgage3 at chartermi.net Thu May 19 17:29:10 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 17:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. Message-ID: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> I'm not saying that the one vote per person is in the bible, I'm saying that that is the way that we do it in our work. There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, approved, appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the church. There are only two offices, and both are held by men only. On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 12:56 AM, Billy Staggs wrote: > On 5/17/2011 9:14 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: >> Billy, this is something that I don't understand. We have one vote, >> one person. Meaning one vote for one person. I cannot see in >> Scripture where there is a higher command in place. > > I don't find in the Scriptures where the Church or Israel used a > democracy or even a republic. Where specifically are you finding the > one vote per person? > > >> Elder, pastor, bishop are all the same office. The one who leads the >> church is the pastor, as God leads him. If he wants to be a rogue, >> and do differnetly than what God wants, the church as a whole >> suffers. I've seen it happen is a church that I used to belong to, >> this guy was in there before we moved our membership there. This guy >> had gotten mad at me several times when he had me to fill his pulpit. >> I truly feel sorry for him, but he did do the church hurt, and he >> paid for it in other areas, and ways. Sorry, I just son't see where >> the first church had the hierarchy in there. >> > > > Brother, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this, > because I feel there is sufficient evidence for a hierarchy within the > Church. > > > 1 Timothy 3:1--5 This is a true saying, If a man desire the*office of > a bishop*, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, > the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to > hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy > of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that > ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all > gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall > he take care of the church of God?) > > > 1 Timothy 3:8--13 Likewise must the *deacons *be grave, not > doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; > Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience. And let these > also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being > found blameless. Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, > sober, faithful in all things. Let the deacons be the husbands of one > wife, ruling their children and their own houses well. For they that > have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good > degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. > > > Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest > set in order the things that are wanting, and *ordain elders in every > city, as I had appointed thee*: > > 2 Peter 3:1--2 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in > both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: ^2 That > ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy > prophets, and of *the commandment of us the apostles* of the Lord and > Saviour: > > > Acts 26:15--17 And I said, Who art thou, Lord? And he said, I am > Jesus whom thou persecutest. But rise, and stand upon thy feet: for I > have appeared unto thee for this purpose, *to make thee a minister and > a witness* both of these things which thou hast seen, and of those > things in the which I will appear unto thee; Delivering thee from the > people, and fromthe Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee, > > > 1 Corinthians 12:27--29 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in > particular. And God hath set some in the church, first *apostles*, > secondarily *prophets*, thirdly *teachers*, after that miracles, then > gifts of healings, helps, *governments*, diversities of tongues. Are > all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of > miracles? > > ...etc > > I do sympathizes with you about how a Pastor out of God's will can > derail or even destroy a local body. But to me this is just all the > more reason for a strong central authority above and beyond the local > body. > > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From tbutler at ofb.biz Thu May 19 17:34:13 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 16:34:13 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> On May 19, 2011, at 4:29 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, approved, appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the church. There are only two offices, and both are held by men only. We Presbyterian folks agree with the two office view, though we have multiple elders per church (some laymen; some paid, "worthy of a double honor" pastors). Our accountability comes from elders coming together as in Acts 15 (for example), not from creating additional offices. -Tim From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Thu May 19 18:14:20 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 17:14:20 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> Message-ID: ...And yet the New Testament mentions 17 men who are apostles, BESIDES the Twelve, prophets, elders, deacons, evangelists.... If we expect to fulfill the Great comission any time soon, it might be a very good idea to re-read the Book from cover to cover, and see if the religious traditions of my denomination are in line. Brother Steve -------------------------------------------------- From: "Timothy Butler" Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:34 PM To: "Linux for Christians" Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. > > On May 19, 2011, at 4:29 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > >> There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament church: >> Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, approved, >> appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the church. There are >> only two offices, and both are held by men only. > > We Presbyterian folks agree with the two office view, though we have > multiple elders per church (some laymen; some paid, "worthy of a double > honor" pastors). Our accountability comes from elders coming together as > in Acts 15 (for example), not from creating additional offices. __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 6136 (20110519) __________ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 20:55:42 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:55:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD5BC0E.9080808@bibleseven.com> Amen to that! > It gives me a greater respect for the linguistic experts who worked > on any translation! > > Shalom, */PBS/* -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From htgage3 at chartermi.net Thu May 19 21:04:35 2011 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:04:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? Message-ID: <67dc638e.ac6d0.1300aeebc5d.Webtop.45@chartermi.net> Makes sense. They are known for that heresy. On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > On May 18, 2011, at 9:40 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > >> I have recently learned of a large network of fellowships >> which appear to use "Christian Church" in their names and >> who share some common doctrine. >> >> I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion >> is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' >> doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. >> >> They appear to believe in works-righteousness and that ones >> salvation is always at risk, absent 'the right works'. >> >> Is anyone familiar with this and have any clarification, please? > > > My guess is that what you are hearing about is part of the > Stone-Campbellite movement: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement > > Some of them go by Church of Christ, some as "Christian Churches." > Some seem to be within orthodoxy, others have wandered outside of it > based on the very critique you raise. Baptismal regeneration does show > up amongst some parts of the movement, as does a rejection of the > Trinity. Fitting in with our ongoing discussion on L4C, many of the > problems stem from an intentional lack of accountability within this > "movement," since it said it wanted to restore the New Testament > church and avoid the sectarian, man-made divisions of things like > creeds and theological work. > > Because of the deemphasis on doctrine, the Restorationist movement > sometimes becomes very conservative and sometimes very liberal. Parts > of it are now in the "Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)" and the > United Church of Christ, for example. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Thu May 19 22:52:28 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:52:28 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD58500.30609@staggs.net> References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD58500.30609@staggs.net> Message-ID: If I had been thinking clearly, I would have included the link earlier. Here is their interlinear Greek study Bible: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Greek_Index.htm And here's the Hebrew for OT studies: http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/Hebrew_Index.htm Shalom, *PBS* On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:00 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > I find my software interlinear to be fascinating, but with my limited > knowledge of the original languages, I am very cautious about my findings. > I have read where some Biblical scholars warn about the dangers of a > "Strongs" in the wrong hands. :-) > > I have toyed with the notion of seriously pursuing some Biblical Greek > studies, but my limited time is probably best served reading, studying and > applying my English Bibles to my own walk. I am not completely certain I > have come to a full grasp of the English language now. Oh to be young > again...... > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Thu May 19 23:19:04 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 21:19:04 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> Message-ID: An interesting concept I have been hearing about is the suggestion that "elders", "deacons", and "pastors" (bishops) are all used interchangeably in the NT. Here's an essay that gathers together all uses of the Greek terms (presbuteros, episkopos, poimainen, diakonos) and shows how they were used in context: http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ee01d.htm I don't really have a horse in this fight; you can believe one or the other about church structure and it doesn't affect your salvation. Personally I don't believe there is scriptural basis for a hierarchy; it just lists various occupations without giving organizational structure to them ("And forsooth, ye deacons needs must answer to thine elders, who art subject to the bishops...") but maybe I'm just not reading the epistles carefully enough to catch it. Our small (maybe 100 families on the books, 50 attending at any given time) has none of that. We have one full-time pastor whose job is to lead the worship services; the entire rest of the church body is expected to hold him accountable, conduct small group studies as we are called by God to do so, and maintain the physical needs of the church building. Unlike churches I've been to that do have formally appointed committees -- deacons, elders, whatever -- there has never been a single argument about money, music, carpet colors, or anything else that I am aware of. And the church just keeps growing... the first time I went there were maybe 20 people total in the whole building. Shalom, *PBS* On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 3:29 PM, wrote: > I'm not saying that the one vote per person is in the bible, I'm saying > that that is the way that we do it in our work. > > There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament church: > Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, approved, > appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the church. There are only > two offices, and both are held by men only. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 23:20:51 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 23:20:51 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Psalms 140 - 144 Message-ID: <4DD5DE13.1000006@bibleseven.com> Friday Psalms 140 - 144 Psalm 140 140:1 For the music director; a psalm of David. O Lord, rescue me from wicked men! Protect me from violent men, 140:2 who plan ways to harm me. All day long they stir up conflict. 140:3 Their tongues wound like a serpent; a viper's venom is behind their lips. (Selah) 140:4 O Lord, shelter me from the power of the wicked! Protect me from violent men, who plan to knock me over. 140:5 Proud men hide a snare for me; evil men spread a net by the path; they set traps for me. (Selah) 140:6 I say to the Lord, "You are my God." O Lord, pay attention to my plea for mercy! 140:7 O sovereign Lord, my strong deliverer, you shield my head in the day of battle. 140:8 O Lord, do not let the wicked have their way! Do not allow their plan to succeed when they attack! (Selah) 140:9 As for the heads of those who surround me -- may the harm done by their lips overwhelm them! 140:10 May he rain down fiery coals upon them! May he throw them into the fire! From bottomless pits they will not escape. 140:11 A slanderer will not endure on the earth; calamity will hunt down a violent man and strike him down. 140:12 I know that the Lord defends the cause of the oppressed and vindicates the poor. 140:13 Certainly the godly will give thanks to your name; the morally upright will live in your presence. Psalm 141 141:1 A psalm of David. O Lord, I cry out to you. Come quickly to me! Pay attention to me when I cry out to you! 141:2 May you accept my prayer like incense, my uplifted hands like the evening offering! 141:3 O Lord, place a guard on my mouth! Protect the opening of my lips! 141:4 Do not let me have evil desires, or participate in sinful activities with men who behave wickedly. I will not eat their delicacies. 141:5 May the godly strike me in love and correct me! May my head not refuse choice oil! Indeed, my prayer is a witness against their evil deeds. 141:6 They will be thrown down the side of a cliff by their judges. They will listen to my words, for they are pleasant. 141:7 As when one plows and breaks up the soil, so our bones are scattered at the mouth of Sheol. 141:8 Surely I am looking to you, O sovereign Lord. In you I take shelter. Do not expose me to danger! 141:9 Protect me from the snare they have laid for me, and the traps the evildoers have set. 141:10 Let the wicked fall into their own nets, while I escape. Psalm 142 142:1 A well-written song by David, when he was in the cave; a prayer. To the Lord I cry out; to the Lord I plead for mercy. 142:2 I pour out my lament before him; I tell him about my troubles. 142:3 Even when my strength leaves me, you watch my footsteps. In the path where I walk they have hidden a trap for me. 142:4 Look to the right and see! No one cares about me. I have nowhere to run; no one is concerned about my life. 142:5 I cry out to you, O Lord; I say, "You are my shelter, my security in the land of the living." 142:6 Listen to my cry for help, for I am in serious trouble! Rescue me from those who chase me, for they are stronger than I am. 142:7 Free me from prison, that I may give thanks to your name. Because of me the godly will assemble, for you will vindicate me. Psalm 143 143:1 A psalm of David. O Lord, hear my prayer! Pay attention to my plea for help! Because of your faithfulness and justice, answer me! 143:2 Do not sit in judgment on your servant, for no one alive is innocent before you. 143:3 Certainly my enemies chase me. They smash me into the ground. They force me to live in dark regions, like those who have been dead for ages. 143:4 My strength leaves me; I am absolutely shocked. 143:5 I recall the old days; I meditate on all you have done; I reflect on your accomplishments. 143:6 I spread my hands out to you in prayer; my soul thirsts for you in a parched land. 143:7 Answer me quickly, Lord! My strength is fading. Do not reject me, or I will join those descending into the grave. 143:8 May I hear about your loyal love in the morning, for I trust in you. Show me the way I should go, because I long for you. 143:9 Rescue me from my enemies, O Lord! I run to you for protection. 143:10 Teach me to do what pleases you, for you are my God. May your kind presence lead me into a level land. 143:11 O Lord, for the sake of your reputation, revive me! Because of your justice, rescue me from trouble! 143:12 As a demonstration of your loyal love, destroy my enemies! Annihilate all who threaten my life, for I am your servant. Psalm 144 144:1 By David. The Lord, my protector, deserves praise -- the one who trains my hands for battle, and my fingers for war, 144:2 who loves me and is my stronghold, my refuge and my deliverer, my shield and the one in whom I take shelter, who makes nations submit to me. 144:3 O Lord, of what importance is the human race, that you should notice them? Of what importance is mankind, that you should be concerned about them? 144:4 People are like a vapor, their days like a shadow that disappears. 144:5 O Lord, make the sky sink and come down! Touch the mountains and make them smolder! 144:6 Hurl lightning bolts and scatter them! Shoot your arrows and rout them! 144:7 Reach down from above! Grab me and rescue me from the surging water, from the power of foreigners, 144:8 who speak lies, and make false promises. 144:9 O God, I will sing a new song to you! Accompanied by a ten-stringed instrument, I will sing praises to you, 144:10 the one who delivers kings, and rescued David his servant from a deadly sword. 144:11 Grab me and rescue me from the power of foreigners, who speak lies, and make false promises. 144:12 Then our sons will be like plants, that quickly grow to full size. Our daughters will be like corner pillars, carved like those in a palace. 144:13 Our storehouses will be full, providing all kinds of food. Our sheep will multiply by the thousands and fill our pastures. 144:14 Our cattle will be weighted down with produce. No one will break through our walls, no one will be taken captive, and there will be no terrified cries in our city squares. 144:15 How blessed are the people who experience these things! How blessed are the people whose God is the Lord! Prayer Lord, David rarely too his eyes off of You, and when he did he fell -- he sincerely repented and You restored him. May I keep my eyes on You so that I do not fall. Commentary Psalm 140 was David's imprecatory prayer with a petition "O sovereign Lord, my strong deliverer, you shield my head in the day of battle. O Lord, do not let the wicked have their way!" Psalm 141 was David's petition "May you accept my prayer like incense, my uplifted hands like the evening offering! O Lord, place a guard on my mouth! Protect the opening of my lips! Do not let me have evil desires, or participate in sinful activities with men who behave wickedly." Psalm 142 was David's lament and petition "I cry out to you, O Lord; I say, "You are my shelter, my security in the land of the living."" Psalm 143 was David's "Do not sit in judgment on your servant, for no one alive is innocent before you ... May I hear about your loyal love in the morning, for I trust in you. Show me the way I should go, because I long for you." Psalm 144 was David's praise song with a petition "Of what importance is mankind, that you should be concerned about them? People are like a vapor, their days like a shadow that disappears ... Grab me and rescue me from the power of foreigners, who speak lies, and make false promises ... How blessed are the people who experience these things! How blessed are the people whose God is the Lord!" Interaction Consider David's imprecatory prayers, seeking terrible harm to his enemies, we the cries of his heart -- the Lord God listened and waited for David to reflect and to calm down and to trust Him to make the decision as to how He would deal with evil men. Discuss Why would David think it was important to describe the temporary and insignificant state of humankind in contrast with the Lord God? Reflect David's recognition that no human, even a king, could stand sinless before the Lord God was important to his humility and his perspective. Share When have you become focused upon revenge against your enemies and petitioned the Lord God to do your bidding in wreaking havoc upon them? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where He has been your "shelter". Action: Today I will pause and give thanks to the Lord God for being my shelter -- and I will share that testimony with another believer as an encouragement to them. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Psalms 145 - 150 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 23:26:29 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 20:26:29 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4DD5DF65.8020903@mindblowingidea.com> Exactly On 05/19/2011 03:14 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional wrote: > ...And yet the New Testament mentions 17 men who are apostles, BESIDES > the Twelve, prophets, elders, deacons, evangelists.... > > If we expect to fulfill the Great comission any time soon, it might be > a very good idea to re-read the Book from cover to cover, and see if > the religious traditions of my denomination are in line. > > Brother Steve > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Timothy Butler" > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2011 4:34 PM > To: "Linux for Christians" > Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. > >> >> On May 19, 2011, at 4:29 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: >> >>> There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament >>> church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, >>> approved, appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the >>> church. There are only two offices, and both are held by men only. >> >> We Presbyterian folks agree with the two office view, though we have >> multiple elders per church (some laymen; some paid, "worthy of a >> double honor" pastors). Our accountability comes from elders coming >> together as in Acts 15 (for example), not from creating additional >> offices. > > > > __________ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus > signature database 6136 (20110519) __________ > > The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 23:38:05 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 23:38:05 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD5DF65.8020903@mindblowingidea.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> <4DD5DF65.8020903@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD5E21D.2000202@bibleseven.com> These three books do the hard work for you: Pagan Christianity Simple Church Real Church > On 05/19/2011 03:14 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional wrote: > > ...And yet the New Testament mentions 17 men who are apostles, > > BESIDES the Twelve, prophets, elders, deacons, evangelists.... > > > > If we expect to fulfill the Great comission any time soon, it might > > be a very good idea to re-read the Book from cover to cover, and > > see if the religious traditions of my denomination are in line. > > > > Brother Steve -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From tbutler at ofb.biz Thu May 19 23:45:49 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 22:45:49 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <332A7218-4A47-489F-B52D-323705739285@ofb.biz> On May 19, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional wrote: > ...And yet the New Testament mentions 17 men who are apostles, BESIDES the Twelve, prophets, elders, deacons, evangelists.... Well, I think the big question is how these overlap, etc. We consider evangelists under the category of teaching elders. I think generally, within ordained ministry, it seems like two offices can be justified. The New Testament churches seems to have elders/bishops and then we see the deacons set apart to do the mercy related work. Within elders, we read that some are worthy of a double honor, e.g., those who teach. Hence why we have teaching elders (i.e. pastors) and ruling elders (those doing the ruling work of elders, but are not pastors in the "vocational" sense). > If we expect to fulfill the Great comission any time soon, it might be a very good idea to re-read the Book from cover to cover, and see if the religious traditions of my denomination are in line. That's actually how I ended up where I am at... -Tim From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 19 23:47:04 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 23:47:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <332A7218-4A47-489F-B52D-323705739285@ofb.biz> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <14B5D655-8702-4D33-9136-43FD5D8B7D3B@ofb.biz> <332A7218-4A47-489F-B52D-323705739285@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4DD5E438.6040302@bibleseven.com> Since I have never been a conformist and have railed against "tradition over truth" for 21 years, as I study the Word of God line-by-line I test historic and current doctrine against the Word. I don't believe that there are any blind-traditionalists on this list! :-) > On May 19, 2011, at 5:14 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional wrote: > > >> ...And yet the New Testament mentions 17 men who are apostles, BESIDES the Twelve, prophets, elders, deacons, evangelists.... >> > Well, I think the big question is how these overlap, etc. We consider evangelists under the category of teaching elders. I think generally, within ordained ministry, it seems like two offices can be justified. The New Testament churches seems to have elders/bishops and then we see the deacons set apart to do the mercy related work. Within elders, we read that some are worthy of a double honor, e.g., those who teach. Hence why we have teaching elders (i.e. pastors) and ruling elders (those doing the ruling work of elders, but are not pastors in the "vocational" sense). > > >> If we expect to fulfill the Great comission any time soon, it might be a very good idea to re-read the Book from cover to cover, and see if the religious traditions of my denomination are in line. >> > That's actually how I ended up where I am at... > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 19 16:08:44 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 13:08:44 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [Bulk] Re: OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD578CC.10406@mindblowingidea.com> One thing God called me to do as a young boy was to organise a group of translators and linguistic experts and to pay them to translate the Bible into every language it hasn't yet been translated into, and then to get a 5 minute gospel message translated in every language and have it aired on every channel, every newspaper, every form of media, ect. at the same time to help get the gospel spread to every person in every country. I don't know when I'll be able to start doing that or when it will be complete (during my life time or the life of my children) but it's what God wants me to do. On 05/19/2011 12:49 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > When I have the slightest bit of uncertainty over how to interpret a > passage, I don't just go to any translation... I go to the earliest > possible Greek sources with an Interlinear tool that displays the > original Greek or Hebrew, a transliterated pronunciation guide, an > *exact* word-for-word translation, and a modern translation for > comparison purposes. > > If you think translating from ancient Greek is straightforward, try > this on for size: > "Thus for loves the God the system(world) as besides the [son-of-Him] > the [only-generated] [He-gives] that every the [one-believing] into > Him no [should-be-being-destroyed] but [may-be-having] life everlasting." > > John 3:16, right? The phrases in brackets are all one word in Greek, > e.g. "apoletai" is "should be being destroyed". It gives me a greater > respect for the linguistic experts who worked on any translation! > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > > On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 11:58 AM, usacomputertech > > wrote: > > To get the best interpretation I put the KJV, NIV, ASV, NKJV, ect. > side by side and read the same scripture. What I find is that > there is either a huge mistake made or that there is twice the > text / idioms that one translation brings to the table. This is > how you can (with the Holy Spirit) get the full meaning of the > word of God. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From karl at kleinpaste.org Fri May 20 07:54:03 2011 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 07:54:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Rapture: Fact or Fiction? In-Reply-To: <4DD578CC.10406@mindblowingidea.com> (usacomputertech@mindblowingidea.com's message of "Thu, 19 May 2011 13:08:44 -0700") References: <4DCF3F41.6090808@lightlink.com> <20110518214126.0000509c@unknown> <4DD4A286.7010802@staggs.net> <4DD503D7.5090902@thelinuxlink.net> <4DD558A9.9060000@staggs.net> <4DD55A5C.20105@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD578CC.10406@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: usacomputertech writes: > One thing God called me to do as a young boy was to organise a group > of translators and linguistic experts and to pay them to translate the > Bible into every language it hasn't yet been translated into ... > I don't know when I'll be able to start doing that or > when it will be complete (during my life time or the life of my > children) but it's what God wants me to do. You're late to the party: Wycliffe/SIL is already busy with that task. A year or so ago, they dropped almost 50 new Bibles translated into Central and South American native languages on The Sword Project. Caribbean Javanese, anyone? How about Jamiltepec Mixtec? Or would you prefer to minister to those speaking Northern Oaxaca Nahuatl? Give Wycliffe a call, they could use more help. From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri May 20 09:22:07 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 08:22:07 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> Peter, could you tell me who the author is? Granted I haven't had time to look them over thoroughly, but I don't seem to be able to find any information regarding there origin. The home page shows to be edited very recently (yesterday) so someone appears to be actively maintaining them. Thanks, -- bstaggs <>< On 5/19/2011 10:19 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > An interesting concept I have been hearing about is the suggestion > that "elders", "deacons", and "pastors" (bishops) are all used > interchangeably in the NT. Here's an essay that gathers together all > uses of the Greek terms (presbuteros, episkopos, poimainen, diakonos) > and shows how they were used in context: > http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ee01d.htm > > I don't really have a horse in this fight; you can believe one or the > other about church structure and it doesn't affect your salvation. > Personally I don't believe there is scriptural basis for a hierarchy; > it just lists various occupations without giving organizational > structure to them ("And forsooth, ye deacons needs must answer to > thine elders, who art subject to the bishops...") but maybe I'm just > not reading the epistles carefully enough to catch it. > > Our small (maybe 100 families on the books, 50 attending at any given > time) has none of that. We have one full-time pastor whose job is to > lead the worship services; the entire rest of the church body is > expected to hold him accountable, conduct small group studies as we > are called by God to do so, and maintain the physical needs of the > church building. Unlike churches I've been to that do have formally > appointed committees -- deacons, elders, whatever -- there has never > been a single argument about money, music, carpet colors, or anything > else that I am aware of. And the church just keeps growing... the > first time I went there were maybe 20 people total in the whole building. > > Shalom, > > */PBS/* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Fri May 20 14:16:18 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:16:18 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD6AFF2.3070405@mindblowingidea.com> In the beginning God's perfect plan was for Man and Woman to live directly under Him and be accountable to Him. Problem was that because of a lack of previous experience with sin they chose not to follow God. God Said I will be your God and you will be my People. In Samuel God warned the people not to have a ruler or king on earth but to have God as their leader. Jesus said in Matthew 23 that God was to be our teacher, leader, and Father. After Jesus ascended into heaven His followers (men) decided to invent our modern Church system, unfortunately there were many mistakes as an outcome of organising religion, appointing leaders, ect. These mistakes are reflected in the letters sent to the Churches. There you go. On 05/20/2011 06:22 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Peter, could you tell me who the author is? Granted I haven't had time > to look them over thoroughly, but I don't seem to be able to find any > information regarding there origin. The home page shows to be edited > very recently (yesterday) so someone appears to be actively > maintaining them. > > Thanks, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > On 5/19/2011 10:19 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: >> An interesting concept I have been hearing about is the suggestion >> that "elders", "deacons", and "pastors" (bishops) are all used >> interchangeably in the NT. Here's an essay that gathers together all >> uses of the Greek terms (presbuteros, episkopos, poimainen, diakonos) >> and shows how they were used in context: >> http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ee01d.htm >> >> I don't really have a horse in this fight; you can believe one or the >> other about church structure and it doesn't affect your salvation. >> Personally I don't believe there is scriptural basis for a hierarchy; >> it just lists various occupations without giving organizational >> structure to them ("And forsooth, ye deacons needs must answer to >> thine elders, who art subject to the bishops...") but maybe I'm just >> not reading the epistles carefully enough to catch it. >> >> Our small (maybe 100 families on the books, 50 attending at any given >> time) has none of that. We have one full-time pastor whose job is to >> lead the worship services; the entire rest of the church body is >> expected to hold him accountable, conduct small group studies as we >> are called by God to do so, and maintain the physical needs of the >> church building. Unlike churches I've been to that do have formally >> appointed committees -- deacons, elders, whatever -- there has never >> been a single argument about money, music, carpet colors, or anything >> else that I am aware of. And the church just keeps growing... the >> first time I went there were maybe 20 people total in the whole building. >> >> Shalom, >> >> */PBS/* >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri May 20 14:47:28 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 13:47:28 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD6AFF2.3070405@mindblowingidea.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> <4DD6AFF2.3070405@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD6B740.3070505@staggs.net> I beg your pardon, but apparently you have misunderstood my question. My question was who was the author (writer) of the essays from the URL given. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/20/2011 1:16 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > In the beginning God's perfect plan was for Man and Woman to live > directly under Him and be accountable to Him. Problem was that because > of a lack of previous experience with sin they chose not to follow God. > > God Said I will be your God and you will be my People. > > In Samuel God warned the people not to have a ruler or king on earth > but to have God as their leader. > > Jesus said in Matthew 23 that God was to be our teacher, leader, and > Father. > > After Jesus ascended into heaven His followers (men) decided to invent > our modern Church system, unfortunately there were many mistakes as an > outcome of organising religion, appointing leaders, ect. These > mistakes are reflected in the letters sent to the Churches. > > There you go. > > On 05/20/2011 06:22 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> Peter, could you tell me who the author is? Granted I haven't had >> time to look them over thoroughly, but I don't seem to be able to >> find any information regarding there origin. The home page shows to >> be edited very recently (yesterday) so someone appears to be actively >> maintaining them. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> bstaggs <>< >> >> On 5/19/2011 10:19 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: >>> An interesting concept I have been hearing about is the suggestion >>> that "elders", "deacons", and "pastors" (bishops) are all used >>> interchangeably in the NT. Here's an essay that gathers together >>> all uses of the Greek terms (presbuteros, episkopos, poimainen, >>> diakonos) and shows how they were used in context: >>> http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ee01d.htm >>> >>> I don't really have a horse in this fight; you can believe one or >>> the other about church structure and it doesn't affect your >>> salvation. Personally I don't believe there is scriptural basis for >>> a hierarchy; it just lists various occupations without giving >>> organizational structure to them ("And forsooth, ye deacons needs >>> must answer to thine elders, who art subject to the bishops...") but >>> maybe I'm just not reading the epistles carefully enough to catch it. >>> >>> Our small (maybe 100 families on the books, 50 attending at any >>> given time) has none of that. We have one full-time pastor whose >>> job is to lead the worship services; the entire rest of the church >>> body is expected to hold him accountable, conduct small group >>> studies as we are called by God to do so, and maintain the physical >>> needs of the church building. Unlike churches I've been to that do >>> have formally appointed committees -- deacons, elders, whatever -- >>> there has never been a single argument about money, music, carpet >>> colors, or anything else that I am aware of. And the church just >>> keeps growing... the first time I went there were maybe 20 people >>> total in the whole building. >>> >>> Shalom, >>> >>> */PBS/* >>> >>> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Fri May 20 14:54:05 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 11:54:05 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD6B740.3070505@staggs.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> <4DD6AFF2.3070405@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD6B740.3070505@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD6B8CD.50502@mindblowingidea.com> Here is a T-Shirt I made to help reach youth. http://www.zazzle.com/the_real_matrix_has_you_tshirt-235568480134504284 Enjoy -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Fri May 20 16:40:49 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 14:40:49 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> Message-ID: Sorry Billy, I can't. I just discovered that site yesterday when I was researching a discussion on the subject that came up at our Wednesday night Bible study. I need to read through it more thoroughly to make sure the author has his biblical facts straight :-) Shalom, *PBS* On Fri, May 20, 2011 at 7:22 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Peter, could you tell me who the author is? Granted I haven't had time to > look them over thoroughly, but I don't seem to be able to find any > information regarding there origin. The home page shows to be edited very > recently (yesterday) so someone appears to be actively maintaining them. > > Thanks, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri May 20 16:48:22 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 15:48:22 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DD66AFF.10303@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD6D396.5000305@staggs.net> Peter, I am in agreement about having a better look. He makes some claims that he really doesn't substantiate, at least on a quick glance it appears that way. Please keep us posted if you find more. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/20/2011 3:40 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Sorry Billy, I can't. I just discovered that site yesterday when I > was researching a discussion on the subject that came up at our > Wednesday night Bible study. I need to read through it more > thoroughly to make sure the author has his biblical facts straight :-) > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parrisdc at gmail.com Fri May 20 18:29:07 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 18:29:07 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: <67dc638e.ac6d0.1300aeebc5d.Webtop.45@chartermi.net> References: <67dc638e.ac6d0.1300aeebc5d.Webtop.45@chartermi.net> Message-ID: As one who grew up in the Disciples of Christ denomination, I can tell you this: <> As far as I know, all of them are trinitarian - I tend to think of them as quasi-Presbyterian. <> I've never heard that baptism by immersion was necessary to salvation - that could be a local church, but it does not represent the majority of churches in this denomination. It's difficult to imagine the denomination supporting such a view, to be honest. <> They typically follow the Catholic 'order of service', are organized in what I would call a mix of Baptist-Presbyterian polity - there is a regional minister (bishop, if you will), but each church is generally independent. The regional minister is there to assist churches in their missions and challenges. <> Each church has its own unique identity, but all share in common the act of sharing communion every Sunday. <> They are basically like most other denominations - with all the inherent problems thereof. I think it is fair to say that some are more liberal, while others are more conservative. I really miss the old confession of faith, which was so beautifully worded. They changed it some years back. As far as denominations go, I prefer them over most. They do some things well, some not so well - and then it depends on the church and area you are in. That said, I am not currently involved in a Disciples church, but have worshiped at various points with a couple of the local churches. They have lots of information about themselves at http://www.disciples.org/ Blessings, Don On Thu, May 19, 2011 at 21:04, wrote: > Makes sense. They are known for that heresy. > > > On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 10:59 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > > On May 18, 2011, at 9:40 PM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> >> I have recently learned of a large network of fellowships >>> which appear to use "Christian Church" in their names and >>> who share some common doctrine. >>> >>> I am told that they promote the notion that baptism by immersion >>> is a necessary element of salvation, much as some 'Charismatic' >>> doctrine mandates 'speaking in tongues'. >>> >>> They appear to believe in works-righteousness and that ones >>> salvation is always at risk, absent 'the right works'. >>> >>> Is anyone familiar with this and have any clarification, please? >>> >> >> >> My guess is that what you are hearing about is part of the >> Stone-Campbellite movement: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restoration_Movement >> >> Some of them go by Church of Christ, some as "Christian Churches." >> Some seem to be within orthodoxy, others have wandered outside of it based >> on the very critique you raise. Baptismal regeneration does show up amongst >> some parts of the movement, as does a rejection of the Trinity. Fitting in >> with our ongoing discussion on L4C, many of the problems stem from an >> intentional lack of accountability within this "movement," since it said it >> wanted to restore the New Testament church and avoid the sectarian, man-made >> divisions of things like creeds and theological work. >> >> Because of the deemphasis on doctrine, the Restorationist movement >> sometimes becomes very conservative and sometimes very liberal. Parts of it >> are now in the "Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)" and the United >> Church of Christ, for example. >> >> -Tim >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri May 20 20:26:36 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 20:26:36 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> On 05/17/2011 10:01 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Yeah, and he is, from what Scripture says, part Jew and a lot of > Gentile, and most likely homosexual. During the Trib. the anti-Christ and some close to him will have incredible power. They will hunt down and kill Christians all over the world. Of course, all that is Rev. will continue until God says enough is enough and our Lord returns. I've heard some say that he'll be Syrian. I don't know where he'll come from and it doesn't really matter. I suspect he'll be a Muslim, but I can't prove that. I also suspect that he is alive today, but then, I can't prove that either. 8-) Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri May 20 21:33:51 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:33:51 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Survey: 56% expect that more than half of all software spend over next 5 years will be open source Message-ID: <4DD7167F.5030101@lightlink.com> More than half of all software purchases made over the next five years will be open source, according to half of all respondents in a significant survey released today. Although 95 percent of the same survey 450 respondents believe that the "turbulent" economy is good for open source software, avoiding vendor lock-in has supplanted lowered software cost as the chief reason for open source adoption. These findings, included in the fifth annual Future of Open Source survey, conducted by North Bridge Venture Partners (NBVP) and 451Group, were made public today at the Open Source Business Conference. The venture capital firm invests in many open source firms including Acquia, which is highlighted in the report and at the conference. [More] http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/survey-56-expect-that-more-than-half-of-all-software-spend-over-next-5-years-will-be-open-source/8917 -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Fri May 20 21:40:26 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:40:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Psalms 145 - 150 Message-ID: <4DD7180A.20900@bibleseven.com> Saturday Psalms 145 - 150 Psalm 145 145:1 A psalm of praise, by David. I will extol you, my God, O king! I will praise your name continually! 145:2 Every day I will praise you! I will praise your name continually! 145:3 The Lord is great and certainly worthy of praise! No one can fathom his greatness! 145:4 One generation will praise your deeds to another, and tell about your mighty acts! 145:5 I will focus on your honor and majestic splendor, and your amazing deeds! 145:6 They will proclaim the power of your awesome acts! I will declare your great deeds! 145:7 They will talk about the fame of your great kindness, and sing about your justice. 145:8 The Lord is merciful and compassionate; he is patient and demonstrates great loyal love. 145:9 The Lord is good to all, and has compassion on all he has made. 145:10 All he has made will give thanks to the Lord. Your loyal followers will praise you. 145:11 They will proclaim the splendor of your kingdom; they will tell about your power, 145:12 so that mankind might acknowledge your mighty acts, and the majestic splendor of your kingdom. 145:13 Your kingdom is an eternal kingdom, and your dominion endures through all generations. 145:14 The Lord supports all who fall, and lifts up all who are bent over. 145:15 Everything looks to you in anticipation, and you provide them with food on a regular basis. 145:16 You open your hand, and fill every living thing with the food they desire. 145:17 The Lord is just in all his actions, and exhibits love in all he does. 145:18 The Lord is near all who cry out to him, all who cry out to him sincerely. 145:19 He satisfies the desire of his loyal followers; he hears their cry for help and delivers them. 145:20 The Lord protects those who love him, but he destroys all the wicked. 145:21 My mouth will praise the Lord. Let all who live praise his holy name forever! Psalm 146 146:1 Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord, O my soul! 146:2 I will praise the Lord as long as I live! I will sing praises to my God as long as I exist! 146:3 Do not trust in princes, or in human beings, who cannot deliver! 146:4 Their life's breath departs, they return to the ground; on that day their plans die. 146:5 How blessed is the one whose helper is the God of Jacob, whose hope is in the Lord his God, 146:6 the one who made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, who remains forever faithful, 146:7 vindicates the oppressed, and gives food to the hungry. The Lord releases the imprisoned. 146:8 The Lord gives sight to the blind. The Lord lifts up all who are bent over. The Lord loves the godly. 146:9 The Lord protects those residing outside their native land; he lifts up the fatherless and the widow, but he opposes the wicked. 146:10 The Lord rules forever, your God, O Zion, throughout the generations to come! Praise the Lord! Psalm 147 147:1 Praise the Lord, for it is good to sing praises to our God! Yes, praise is pleasant and appropriate! 147:2 The Lord rebuilds Jerusalem, and gathers the exiles of Israel. 147:3 He heals the brokenhearted, and bandages their wounds. 147:4 He counts the number of the stars; he names all of them. 147:5 Our Lord is great and has awesome power; there is no limit to his wisdom. 147:6 The Lord lifts up the oppressed, but knocks the wicked to the ground. 147:7 Offer to the Lord a song of thanks! Sing praises to our God to the accompaniment of a harp! 147:8 He covers the sky with clouds, provides the earth with rain, and causes grass to grow on the hillsides. 147:9 He gives food to the animals, and to the young ravens when they chirp. 147:10 He is not enamored with the strength of a horse, nor is he impressed by the warrior's strong legs. 147:11 The Lord takes delight in his faithful followers, and in those who wait for his loyal love. 147:12 Extol the Lord, O Jerusalem! Praise your God, O Zion! 147:13 For he makes the bars of your gates strong. He blesses your children within you. 147:14 He brings peace to your territory. He abundantly provides for you the best grain. 147:15 He sends his command through the earth; swiftly his order reaches its destination. 147:16 He sends the snow that is white like wool; he spreads the frost that is white like ashes. 147:17 He throws his hailstones like crumbs. Who can withstand the cold wind he sends? 147:18 He then orders it all to melt; he breathes on it, and the water flows. 147:19 He proclaims his word to Jacob, his statutes and regulations to Israel. 147:20 He has not done so with any other nation; they are not aware of his regulations. Praise the Lord! Psalm 148 148:1 Praise the Lord! Praise the Lord from the sky! Praise him in the heavens! 148:2 Praise him, all his angels! Praise him, all his heavenly assembly! 148:3 Praise him, O sun and moon! Praise him, all you shiny stars! 148:4 Praise him, O highest heaven, and you waters above the sky! 148:5 Let them praise the name of the Lord, for he gave the command and they came into existence. 148:6 He established them so they would endure; he issued a decree that will not be revoked. 148:7 Praise the Lord from the earth, you sea creatures and all you ocean depths, 148:8 O fire and hail, snow and clouds, O stormy wind that carries out his orders, 148:9 you mountains and all you hills, you fruit trees and all you cedars, 148:10 you animals and all you cattle, you creeping things and birds, 148:11 you kings of the earth and all you nations, you princes and all you leaders on the earth, 148:12 you young men and young women, you elderly, along with you children! 148:13 Let them praise the name of the Lord, for his name alone is exalted; his majesty extends over the earth and sky. 148:14 He has made his people victorious, and given all his loyal followers reason to praise -- the Israelites, the people who are close to him. Praise the Lord! Psalm 149 149:1 Praise the Lord! Sing to the Lord a new song! Praise him in the assembly of the godly! 149:2 Let Israel rejoice in their Creator! Let the people of Zion delight in their king! 149:3 Let them praise his name with dancing! Let them sing praises to him to the accompaniment of the tambourine and harp! 149:4 For the Lord takes delight in his people; he exalts the oppressed by delivering them. 149:5 Let the godly rejoice because of their vindication! Let them shout for joy upon their beds! 149:6 May they praise God while they hold a two-edged sword in their hand, 149:7 in order to take revenge on the nations, and punish foreigners. 149:8 They bind their kings in chains, and their nobles in iron shackles, 149:9 and execute the judgment to which their enemies have been sentenced. All his loyal followers will be vindicated. Praise the Lord! Psalm 150 150:1 Praise the Lord! Praise God in his sanctuary! Praise him in the sky, which testifies to his strength! 150:2 Praise him for his mighty acts! Praise him for his surpassing greatness! 150:3 Praise him with the blast of the horn! Praise him with the lyre and the harp! 150:4 Praise him with the tambourine and with dancing! Praise him with stringed instruments and the flute! 150:5 Praise him with loud cymbals! Praise him with clanging cymbals! 150:6 Let everything that has breath praise the Lord! Praise the Lord! Prayer Lord, when we praise You we draw nearer to Your perfection. May I praise you ceaselessly. Commentary Psalm 145 by David was praise "The Lord is great and certainly worthy of praise!" with wisdom "The Lord is near all who cry out to him, all who cry out to him sincerely." Psalm 146 by David was praise "I will praise the Lord as long as I live! I will sing praises to my God as long as I exist!" with wisdom "Do not trust in princes, or in human beings, who cannot deliver!" Psalm 147 was praise with wisdom "Our Lord is great and has awesome power; there is no limit to his wisdom. The Lord lifts up the oppressed, but knocks the wicked to the ground ... The Lord takes delight in his faithful followers, and in those who wait for his loyal love." The author was not identified in the text. Psalm 148 was praise "Let them praise the name of the Lord, for his name alone is exalted; his majesty extends over the earth and sky." The author was not identified in the text. Psalm 149 was praise "Let them sing praises to him to the accompaniment of the tambourine and harp!" with wisdom "For the Lord takes delight in his people; he exalts the oppressed by delivering them. May they praise God while they hold a two-edged sword in their hand ..." Psalm 150 was praise "Let everything that has breath praise the Lord!" Interaction Consider "The Lord is near all who cry out to him, all who cry out to him sincerely." Discuss Would it be because of the pattern of Israel making idols of mere men that David wrote "Do not trust in princes, or in human beings, who cannot deliver!"? Reflect Whether sentient or non-sentient, being or inanimate object "Let everything that has breath praise the Lord!" - all of Creation testifies to the Creator and therefore gives Him praise -- despite the Fall. He Created perfection, we broke it, and He will cleanse and restore in the end. Share When have you experienced or observed the idolatry of mere man? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a way that you could become more sincere in your communication with the Lord God. Action: Today I will prayerfully reflect upon my communications with the Lord God, carefully listening for the guidance of the Holy Spirit as to how I might better prepare my heart for special time along with Him (perhaps fasting, music, and/or reading the Word). Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Proverbs 1 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Sat May 21 01:40:16 2011 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 00:40:16 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: References: <67dc638e.ac6d0.1300aeebc5d.Webtop.45@chartermi.net> Message-ID: On May 20, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Don Parris wrote: > <> They are basically like most other denominations - with all the inherent problems thereof. To clarify my comments, while the Disciples of Christ come from the Stone-Campbellite movement, I don't think any of my points about baptism or the Trinity apply to them. Those issues seem to show up more in the Churches of Christ. The Disciples seemed to shed much of the original Restorationist flare. -Tim From bstaggs at staggs.net Sat May 21 10:42:45 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy Staggs) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 09:42:45 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> I have always supposed that he would come from the old Roman empire due to the prophesies about it being revised. Though it may not be talking about boundaries as much as origin. Would Israel really accept someone that was purely muslim or is it possible that he is in some way a Jewish muslim mix? Interesting to speculate, but the Scriptures don't give any information that I have found. -- bstaggs On 5/20/2011 7:26 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 05/17/2011 10:01 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: >> Yeah, and he is, from what Scripture says, part Jew and a lot of >> Gentile, and most likely homosexual. > > During the Trib. the anti-Christ and some close to him will have > incredible power. They will hunt down and kill Christians all over the > world. Of course, all that is Rev. will continue until God says enough > is enough and our Lord returns. I've heard some say that he'll be > Syrian. I don't know where he'll come from and it doesn't really > matter. I suspect he'll be a Muslim, but I can't prove that. I also > suspect that he is alive today, but then, I can't prove that either. 8-) > > Fred -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 21 11:06:44 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 11:06:44 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD7D504.10603@bibleseven.com> Not to worry, it will be obvious when it happens, and knowing who they are by name or nationality or race a few hours, days, weeks, or years ahead of time will change nothing. Right now I am upset with myself for being in a coffeehouse with a fellow pastor/minister/believer yesterday and neither one of us paused to even ask the two workers how we might pray for them. This is something I always try to do - we were just so distracted talking about 'church stuff' we neglected our first responsibility. Arghhhh! Can we call it "The Harold Camping Disease" or perhaps "The Religious Navel-Gazing Disease" or what? Sigh. > I have always supposed that he would come from the old Roman empire > due to the prophesies about it being revised. Though it may not be > talking about boundaries as much as origin. Would Israel really > accept someone that was purely muslim or is it possible that he is in > some way a Jewish muslim mix? Interesting to speculate, but the > Scriptures don't give any information that I have found. > > -- bstaggs -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Sat May 21 11:15:13 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy Staggs) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 10:15:13 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Ubuntu upgrade In-Reply-To: <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD7D701.4080604@staggs.net> I currently have some servers running Ubuntu Server 10.10 and now that 11.04 has been officially released I am being prompted to "Run 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade". Personally I have always avoid the whole in place upgarde and simply re-installed at a convention season, however I just recently rebuilt them to 10.10 and seeing as they are critical servers (mail, DNS, web, etc) I really don't care to hassle with this again so soon. So my question is, does anyone do release upgrades this way? Has anyone on the list actually preformed an Ubuntu Server 10.10 to 11.04 upgrade? 10.10 is supported until April of 2012 so I don't have to be in a hurry, but if I am going to start doing in place upgrades I would prefer to not get to far behind. Thanks, -- bstaggs <>< From parrisdc at gmail.com Sat May 21 12:24:02 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 12:24:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The "Christian Church" network doctrine? In-Reply-To: References: <67dc638e.ac6d0.1300aeebc5d.Webtop.45@chartermi.net> Message-ID: Thanks Tim, for the clarification. Yes, they do come from the Stone-Campbell movement. I can't say much about the Churches of Christ, other than they are considered to be a sister denomination. The major emphasis of the Disciples, from my experience, is on unity - regardless of specific doctrinal points that most would not consider essential to salvation. Clearly, each local church is influenced by their respective pastor in doctrine. Some Baptists (I think in Maryland & Virginia) played a prominent role early on, but some of them began to withdraw later. I forget the point of dissension now. They do seem to struggle in various issues with where to draw the line between unity and bad theology. As I understand their view on homosexuality, they still have no official position, but consider themselves in a 'discernment process'. That said, I do know that some accept and some don't accept homosexuality. They have long accepted female clergy though, and one of the local pastors here is a woman. On 5/21/11, Timothy Butler wrote: > > On May 20, 2011, at 5:29 PM, Don Parris wrote: > >> <> They are basically like most other denominations - with all the >> inherent problems thereof. > > To clarify my comments, while the Disciples of Christ come from the > Stone-Campbellite movement, I don't think any of my points about baptism or > the Trinity apply to them. Those issues seem to show up more in the Churches > of Christ. The Disciples seemed to shed much of the original Restorationist > flare. > > -Tim > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE From raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za Sat May 21 17:10:38 2011 From: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za (Raoul Snyman) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:10:38 +0200 Subject: [Linux4christians] Ubuntu upgrade In-Reply-To: <4DD7D701.4080604@staggs.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> <4DD7D701.4080604@staggs.net> Message-ID: <201105212310.38577.raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za> Hi Billy, First of all, can you please start a /new/ e-mail, rather than replying to a current e-mail and just changing the subject? There's a mailing list thread id in the headers of each e-mail, and thus this e-mail showed up in my mail client (and a number of others on the list, I'm sure) as a reply to an existing thread (ie. way down the list), instead of a new thread. I actually opened your mail and had to re-read it twice because I was thinking about the other mails in the thread - I didn't even notice the differing subject line. On Saturday 21 May 2011 17:15:13 Billy Staggs wrote: > I currently have some servers running Ubuntu Server 10.10 and now that > 11.04 has been officially released I am being prompted to "Run > 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade". Personally I have always avoid the > whole in place upgarde and simply re-installed at a convention season, > however I just recently rebuilt them to 10.10 and seeing as they are > critical servers (mail, DNS, web, etc) I really don't care to hassle > with this again so soon. So my question is, does anyone do release > upgrades this way? Has anyone on the list actually preformed an Ubuntu > Server 10.10 to 11.04 upgrade? I haven't specifically, but I did recently do an 8.04 to 10.04 upgrade on my VPS, which was a much bigger jump, and it went super-smoothly. This machine runs a mail and a web server, amongst other things, and upgraded without a hitch. One of my servers at home is prompting me to upgrade it (same as yours, 10.10 to 11.04), it runs DNS, DHCP, etc, and I have no hesitation to upgrade - I just haven't had the chance! I don't expect any issues either. Generally, the LTS to LTS upgrades are far more dangerous than the release to release upgrades. This is because less changes between releases. > 10.10 is supported until April of 2012 so I don't have to be in a hurry, > but if I am going to start doing in place upgrades I would prefer to not > get to far behind. Yes, it's better to upgrade sooner rather than later. -- Raoul Snyman, B.Tech IT (Software Engineering) Saturn Laboratories m: 082 550 3754 e: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za w: http://www.saturnlaboratories.co.za b: blog.saturnlaboratories.co.za From bstaggs at staggs.net Sat May 21 17:28:58 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy Staggs) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 16:28:58 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Ubuntu upgrade In-Reply-To: <201105212310.38577.raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> <4DD7D701.4080604@staggs.net> <201105212310.38577.raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za> Message-ID: <4DD82E9A.6030209@staggs.net> Yikes! Sorry I didn't realize there was a thread id in the header, but right you are. Again sorry, -- bstaggs <>< On 5/21/2011 4:10 PM, Raoul Snyman wrote: > Hi Billy, > > First of all, can you please start a /new/ e-mail, rather than replying to a > current e-mail and just changing the subject? There's a mailing list thread id > in the headers of each e-mail, and thus this e-mail showed up in my mail > client (and a number of others on the list, I'm sure) as a reply to an > existing thread (ie. way down the list), instead of a new thread. > > I actually opened your mail and had to re-read it twice because I was thinking > about the other mails in the thread - I didn't even notice the differing > subject line. > > On Saturday 21 May 2011 17:15:13 Billy Staggs wrote: >> I currently have some servers running Ubuntu Server 10.10 and now that >> 11.04 has been officially released I am being prompted to "Run >> 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade". Personally I have always avoid the >> whole in place upgarde and simply re-installed at a convention season, >> however I just recently rebuilt them to 10.10 and seeing as they are >> critical servers (mail, DNS, web, etc) I really don't care to hassle >> with this again so soon. So my question is, does anyone do release >> upgrades this way? Has anyone on the list actually preformed an Ubuntu >> Server 10.10 to 11.04 upgrade? > I haven't specifically, but I did recently do an 8.04 to 10.04 upgrade on my > VPS, which was a much bigger jump, and it went super-smoothly. This machine > runs a mail and a web server, amongst other things, and upgraded without a > hitch. > > One of my servers at home is prompting me to upgrade it (same as yours, 10.10 > to 11.04), it runs DNS, DHCP, etc, and I have no hesitation to upgrade - I > just haven't had the chance! I don't expect any issues either. > > Generally, the LTS to LTS upgrades are far more dangerous than the release to > release upgrades. This is because less changes between releases. > >> 10.10 is supported until April of 2012 so I don't have to be in a hurry, >> but if I am going to start doing in place upgrades I would prefer to not >> get to far behind. > Yes, it's better to upgrade sooner rather than later. > > From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sat May 21 17:52:13 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 14:52:13 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DD8340D.1050506@mindblowingidea.com> It always seems that when we are made slaves or come under persecution it's something we have accepted or allowed in our lives. Makes me wonder what / if the Jews did to allow Hitler to round them up. On 05/21/2011 07:42 AM, Billy Staggs wrote: > I have always supposed that he would come from the old Roman empire > due to the prophesies about it being revised. Though it may not be > talking about boundaries as much as origin. Would Israel really > accept someone that was purely muslim or is it possible that he is in > some way a Jewish muslim mix? Interesting to speculate, but the > Scriptures don't give any information that I have found. > > -- > bstaggs > > > On 5/20/2011 7:26 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: >> On 05/17/2011 10:01 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: >>> Yeah, and he is, from what Scripture says, part Jew and a lot of >>> Gentile, and most likely homosexual. >> >> During the Trib. the anti-Christ and some close to him will have >> incredible power. They will hunt down and kill Christians all over >> the world. Of course, all that is Rev. will continue until God says >> enough is enough and our Lord returns. I've heard some say that he'll >> be Syrian. I don't know where he'll come from and it doesn't really >> matter. I suspect he'll be a Muslim, but I can't prove that. I also >> suspect that he is alive today, but then, I can't prove that either. 8-) >> >> Fred > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sat May 21 17:52:42 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 14:52:42 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DD7D504.10603@bibleseven.com> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> <4DD7D504.10603@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD8342A.4090607@mindblowingidea.com> obvious to the ones who are looking for it. On 05/21/2011 08:06 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Not to worry, it will be obvious when it happens, and knowing > who they are by name or nationality or race a few hours, days, > weeks, or years ahead of time will change nothing. > > Right now I am upset with myself for being in a coffeehouse > with a fellow pastor/minister/believer yesterday and neither > one of us paused to even ask the two workers how we might > pray for them. > > This is something I always try to do - we were just so distracted > talking about 'church stuff' we neglected our first responsibility. > > Arghhhh! > > Can we call it "The Harold Camping Disease" or perhaps > "The Religious Navel-Gazing Disease" or what? Sigh. > >> I have always supposed that he would come from the old Roman empire >> due to the prophesies about it being revised. Though it may not be >> talking about boundaries as much as origin. Would Israel really >> accept someone that was purely muslim or is it possible that he is in >> some way a Jewish muslim mix? Interesting to speculate, but the >> Scriptures don't give any information that I have found. >> >> -- bstaggs > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 21 18:20:50 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 18:20:50 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DD8340D.1050506@mindblowingidea.com> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> <4DD8340D.1050506@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD83AC2.1030807@bibleseven.com> Hitler manipulated people's emotions, mostly fear and pride, and used the political system to make everything he did technically legal. The Jews, as are most people everywhere of any faith, were mostly secular and mostly paying little attention to the politicians ... until it was too late. Hitler murdered more people-groups than just Jews, lots more ... if there is any blame it must be spread to every German citizen. Two useful paraphrases ... "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." "All it takes for evil men to flourish is for good men to remain silent." > usacomputertech wrote: > It always seems that when we are made slaves or come under > persecution it's something we have accepted or allowed in our lives. > Makes me wonder what / if the Jews did to allow Hitler to round them > up. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 21 19:43:34 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 19:43:34 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Proverbs 1 Message-ID: <4DD84E26.1080402@bibleseven.com> Sunday Proverbs 1 Introduction to the Book 1:1 The Proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel: 1:2 To learn wisdom and moral instruction, and to discern wise counsel. 1:3 To receive moral instruction in skillful living, in righteousness, justice, and equity. 1:4 To impart shrewdness to the morally naive, and a discerning plan to the young person. 1:5 (Let the wise also hear and gain instruction, and let the discerning acquire guidance!) 1:6 To discern the meaning of a proverb and a parable, the sayings of the wise and their riddles. Introduction to the Theme of the Book 1:7 Fearing the Lord is the beginning of moral knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction. 1:8 Listen, my child, to the instruction from your father, and do not forsake the teaching from your mother. 1:9 For they will be like an elegant garland on your head, and like pendants around your neck. Admonition to Avoid Easy but Unjust Riches 1:10 My child, if sinners try to entice you, do not consent! 1:11 If they say, "Come with us! We will lie in wait to shed blood; we will ambush an innocent person capriciously. 1:12 We will swallow them alive like Sheol, those full of vigor like those going down to the Pit. 1:13 We will seize all kinds of precious wealth; we will fill our houses with plunder. 1:14 Join with us! We will all share equally in what we steal." 1:15 My child, do not go down their way, withhold yourself from their path; 1:16 for they are eager to inflict harm, and they hasten to shed blood. 1:17 Surely it is futile to spread a net in plain sight of any bird, 1:18 but these men lie in wait for their own blood, they ambush their own lives! 1:19 Such are the ways of all who gain profit unjustly; it takes away the life of those who obtain it! Warning Against Disregarding Wisdom 1:20 Wisdom calls out in the street, she shouts loudly in the plazas; 1:21 at the head of the noisy streets she calls, in the entrances of the gates in the city she utters her words: 1:22 "How long will you simpletons love naivet?? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge? 1:23 If only you will respond to my rebuke, then I will pour out my thoughts to you and I will make my words known to you. 1:24 However, because I called but you refused to listen, because I stretched out my hand but no one paid attention, 1:25 because you neglected all my advice, and did not comply with my rebuke, 1:26 so I myself will laugh when disaster strikes you, I will mock when what you dread comes, 1:27 when what you dread comes like a whirlwind, and disaster strikes you like a devastating storm, when distressing trouble comes on you. 1:28 Then they will call to me, but I will not answer; they will diligently seek me, but they will not find me. 1:29 Because they hated moral knowledge, and did not choose to fear the Lord, 1:30 they did not comply with my advice, they spurned all my rebuke. 1:31 Therefore they will eat from the fruit of their way, and they will be stuffed full of their own counsel. 1:32 For the waywardness of the simpletons will kill them, and the careless ease of fools will destroy them. 1:33 But the one who listens to me will live in security, and will be at ease from the dread of harm. Prayer Lord, You offer to us Your perfect wisdom, and we ignore You to our own peril. May I be attentive to Your leading and make good use of Your wisdom. Commentary Introduction to the Book 1:1 The Proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel: 1:2 To learn wisdom and moral instruction, and to discern wise counsel. 1:3 To receive moral instruction in skillful living, in righteousness, justice, and equity. 1:4 To impart shrewdness to the morally naive, and a discerning plan to the young person. 1:5 (Let the wise also hear and gain instruction, and let the discerning acquire guidance!) 1:6 To discern the meaning of a proverb and a parable, the sayings of the wise and their riddles. The NET translator's notes explain "The noun ?????? (khidah, "riddle") designates enigmatic sayings whose meaning is obscure or hidden, such as a riddle, allegory, perplexing moral problem, perplexing question, or ambiguous saying; If this is related to Arabic /hada/ ("to turn aside, avoid"), it refers to sayings whose meanings are obscure. The sayings of the wise often take the form of riddles that must be discerned." "Fearing the Lord is the beginning of moral knowledge, but fools despise wisdom and instruction." The NET translator's notes /"Heb/ "fear of the ." The expression ?????? ??????? (yir'at y?hvah, "fear of Yahweh") is a genitive-construct in which ?????? ("the ") functions as an objective genitive: He is the object of fear. The term ????? (yara') is the common word for fear in the OT and has a basic three-fold range of meanings: (1) "dread; terror", (2) "to stand in awe", (3) "to revere; to respect". With the as the object, it captures the polar opposites of shrinking back in fear and drawing close in awe and adoration. Both categories of meaning appear in (where the descended upon Sinai amidst geophysical convulsions); Moses encouraged the Israelites to not be afraid of God arbitrarily striking them dead for no reason ("Do not fear!") but informed the people that the revealed himself in such a terrifying manner to scare them from sinning ("God has come only to test you and to put the fear of him in you so that you do not sin"). The fear of the is expressed in reverential submission to his will -- the characteristic of true worship. The fear of the is the foundation for wisdom and the discipline leading to wisdom. It is expressed in hatred of evil and avoidance of sin, and so results in prolonged life." "Admonition to Avoid Easy but Unjust Riches" as such an act harms the one doing so. "Because they hated moral knowledge, and did not choose to fear the Lord ... they did not comply with my advice, they spurned all my rebuke ... Therefore they will eat from the fruit of their way, and they will be stuffed full of their own counsel." Interaction Consider A "riddle" is used to motivate one to engage in a deep process of partnership with the Holy Spirit in order to acquire wisdom rather than simple awareness/knowledge of facts. e.g. The demons have knowledge of Who Jesus is, but they lacked the wisdom to choose His lordship and instead followed Satan in rebellion. Discuss Why are both awe and fear necessary for a right response to the Lord God? Reflect The consequence of ignoring the wisdom that is offered, not imposed, by the Lord God is that you will suffer the result of living in the absence of wisdom. Share When have you experienced or observed someone deliberately ignoring the wisdom of the Lord God and suffering the consequences? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your walk where you are ignoring the wisdom of the Lord God. Action: Today I will confess and repent, seek and receive the Lord God's forgiveness, and act decisively to integrate the Lord's wisdom into my life where the Holy Spirit has shown me that I have been resistant. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Proverbs 2 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sat May 21 21:41:16 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 18:41:16 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. Message-ID: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> I need you guys to pray for a woman in my life who has been deceived by the enemy and has fallen into sin. Her name is Ashley. She has chosen to become a lesbian and to have a relationship with her sister. It's painful to watch her make this decision. -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat May 21 23:20:40 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:20:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD88108.4000103@lightlink.com> On 05/21/2011 09:41 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > I need you guys to pray for a woman in my life who has been deceived > by the enemy and has fallen into sin. Her name is Ashley. She has > chosen to become a lesbian and to have a relationship with her sister. > > It's painful to watch her make this decision. Yes, it is. We know an 18 yr. old who's done the same thing. In that case, his mother is the contributing factor, and has been all of his life. No matter what factors have messed up someone's mind, it's still a choice just like so many other choices we all make for or against something. Sin is still sin, and we can't be happy about that. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Sat May 21 23:32:13 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:32:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Ubuntu upgrade In-Reply-To: <4DD82E9A.6030209@staggs.net> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> <4DD7D701.4080604@staggs.net> <201105212310.38577.raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za> <4DD82E9A.6030209@staggs.net> Message-ID: <1306035133.4903.1.camel@P-733-Lin> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 16:28 -0500, Billy Staggs wrote: > Yikes! Sorry I didn't realize there was a thread id in the header, but > right you are. > > Again sorry, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > On 5/21/2011 4:10 PM, Raoul Snyman wrote: > > Hi Billy, > > > > First of all, can you please start a /new/ e-mail, rather than replying to a > > current e-mail and just changing the subject? There's a mailing list thread id > > in the headers of each e-mail, and thus this e-mail showed up in my mail > > client (and a number of others on the list, I'm sure) as a reply to an > > existing thread (ie. way down the list), instead of a new thread. > > > > I actually opened your mail and had to re-read it twice because I was thinking > > about the other mails in the thread - I didn't even notice the differing > > subject line. > > > > On Saturday 21 May 2011 17:15:13 Billy Staggs wrote: > >> I currently have some servers running Ubuntu Server 10.10 and now that > >> 11.04 has been officially released I am being prompted to "Run > >> 'do-release-upgrade' to upgrade". Personally I have always avoid the > >> whole in place upgarde and simply re-installed at a convention season, > >> however I just recently rebuilt them to 10.10 and seeing as they are > >> critical servers (mail, DNS, web, etc) I really don't care to hassle > >> with this again so soon. So my question is, does anyone do release > >> upgrades this way? Has anyone on the list actually preformed an Ubuntu > >> Server 10.10 to 11.04 upgrade? > > I haven't specifically, but I did recently do an 8.04 to 10.04 upgrade on my > > VPS, which was a much bigger jump, and it went super-smoothly. This machine > > runs a mail and a web server, amongst other things, and upgraded without a > > hitch. > > > > One of my servers at home is prompting me to upgrade it (same as yours, 10.10 > > to 11.04), it runs DNS, DHCP, etc, and I have no hesitation to upgrade - I > > just haven't had the chance! I don't expect any issues either. > > > > Generally, the LTS to LTS upgrades are far more dangerous than the release to > > release upgrades. This is because less changes between releases. > > > >> 10.10 is supported until April of 2012 so I don't have to be in a hurry, > >> but if I am going to start doing in place upgrades I would prefer to not > >> get to far behind. > > Yes, it's better to upgrade sooner rather than later. I suggest that you wait until the next LTS release, and cycle through those for your servers. I switched from oS to Ubuntu partially for that reason. From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Sat May 21 23:41:53 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:41:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <1306035713.4903.6.camel@P-733-Lin> On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 18:41 -0700, usacomputertech wrote: > I need you guys to pray for a woman in my life who has been deceived > by the enemy and has fallen into sin. Her name is Ashley. She has > chosen to become a lesbian and to have a relationship with her > sister. Love her, pray for her, let her know that you're holding her up before the Lord. > It's painful to watch her make this decision. I rather expect this to end badly, a relationship with someone that close screams experimentation. I know a woman who divorced her husband, became a "lipstick lesbian", fell in love with an old school mate, had a 2 year relationship with her school mate before realizing that she really wasn't a lesbian, and ended up married to a male. From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Sat May 21 23:48:50 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 23:48:50 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Ahmadinejad, Antichrist, and the Problem of Evil In-Reply-To: <4DD8340D.1050506@mindblowingidea.com> References: <3caed06b.9f708.13000d649e2.Webtop.46@chartermi.net> <4DD706BC.6050901@lightlink.com> <4DD7CF65.2070000@staggs.net> <4DD8340D.1050506@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <1306036130.4903.13.camel@P-733-Lin> At that point Europe had a long history of anti-semitism. Germany was dealing with it's humiliation from the war to end all wars, and Hitler offered a feel good, scape the goat to his fellow Germans, the Jews were handy, hated, and expendable in such that they were considered to be "Christ Killers". Also bear in mind that because of their observing Levetical Cleaning practices, they "magically" escaped things like the black death, and were accused of being it's author. We gentiles can be such putzes at times, heirs of a Jewish religion who despise Jews. On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 14:52 -0700, usacomputertech wrote: > It always seems that when we are made slaves or come under persecution > it's something we have accepted or allowed in our lives. > Makes me wonder what / if the Jews did to allow Hitler to round them > up. > > On 05/21/2011 07:42 AM, Billy Staggs wrote: > > I have always supposed that he would come from the old Roman empire > > due to the prophesies about it being revised. Though it may not be > > talking about boundaries as much as origin. Would Israel really > > accept someone that was purely muslim or is it possible that he is > > in some way a Jewish muslim mix? Interesting to speculate, but the > > Scriptures don't give any information that I have found. > > > > -- > > bstaggs > > > > > > On 5/20/2011 7:26 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > > On 05/17/2011 10:01 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > > > > Yeah, and he is, from what Scripture says, part Jew and a lot of > > > > Gentile, and most likely homosexual. > > > > > > During the Trib. the anti-Christ and some close to him will have > > > incredible power. They will hunt down and kill Christians all over > > > the world. Of course, all that is Rev. will continue until God > > > says enough is enough and our Lord returns. I've heard some say > > > that he'll be Syrian. I don't know where he'll come from and it > > > doesn't really matter. I suspect he'll be a Muslim, but I can't > > > prove that. I also suspect that he is alive today, but then, I > > > can't prove that either. 8-) > > > > > > Fred > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux4christians mailing list > > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > -- > http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec > Watch My Youtube Videos > > USA COMPUTER TECH > COMPUTER RESCUE > > Justin Breithaupt > (509) 730-5576 > (208) 750-5628 > > e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com > website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html > Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ > > More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec > They say that money talks, if so what does it say? > > IN GOD WE TRUST > > If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar > distro at distrowatch.com > asking him to put JULinux on his site. > > HTML document attachment (760x100_watchmyvideos.png) > > Logo > > > Search this site > > > [Untitled]? > ?[Untitled]? > ? > Page not found > We're sorry, but we were unable to > locate the page you requested. > > > Site pages > Home > > Sign in Recent Site Activity Terms Report Abuse | Powered > by Google Sites > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From hpp3 at lavabit.com Sun May 22 00:32:10 2011 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 21:32:10 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Anyone Using SIP Clients? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20110521213210.000061a0@unknown> Since Skype got bought up by Microsoft, I'm hopeful but skeptical about Skype's future on Linux. Mr. Ballmer has stated rather flatly that MS will continue to support non-MS platforms, but time will tell. Anyways, just in case the worst happens, I signed up for an Ekiga account. I'm at sip:hpp3 at ekiga.net, not at home right now, but shoot me an email sometime and we'll shoot the breeze. My camera is old and buggy, I'd be interested as well in how it performs over SIP. -Eddy On Fri, 29 Apr 2011 13:46:22 -0400 Don Parris wrote: > I'm back on-line with my Ekiga SIP address. Any chance I can arrange > a test call with someone? > > I'm sip:dcparris at ekiga.net > > Thanks! > Don From hpp3 at lavabit.com Sun May 22 00:37:17 2011 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy) Date: Sat, 21 May 2011 21:37:17 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group, predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: References: <4DC7A62C.5050705@smalltimer.net> Message-ID: <20110521213717.00006c53@unknown> Well, here we all are... Unless I didn't make the cut... O_O Hehe, back to loving my neighbor it is! :P -Eddy On Mon, 9 May 2011 05:28:25 -0400 Don Parris wrote: > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 04:30, David Ormand > wrote: > > > > Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all > > > over > > Mexico City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. > > > > Yep, saw something like that in West Virginia recently, when I was > > there on business. I figured the other fellows in the car with me > > probably had the usual "stupid Christians" reaction. > > > > Christians didn't put much emphasis on alcohol until the mid-19th > >> Century. > >> Now, roughly 1 1/2 centuries later, we have a whole sub-culture > >> here in America that believes "Thou Shalt Not Consume Alcohol" was > >> the 11th Commandment. Snicker snicker! > >> > > > > As a Southern Baptist, I think I'm about over that now. Still > > prevalent in my church among the older generation. As a "church > > covenant" thing, I think it is a fine thing. As a point of > > judgment... not. Now, having recently taken a discipleship class > > that emphasized "giving" in the usual Baptist terms, I am reacting > > to the Tithe as another evangelical-accepted legalism. I don't see > > any good support in Scripture that the Tithe is an obligation on > > Christians. I don't think I'm going to convince my SB pastors, > > though! > > > > (sorry about derailing this thread!) > > > > > > Well, you raise another of my favorite points, which wouldn't set > > well with > my fellow National Baptists, either. Adhering to tithing is the same > as adhering to circumcision in my book - Galatians, anyone? :-) > > But I think we're only derailing this thread to the extent that we're > not strictly focused on the end-times. We're focusing more on Tim's > comment about the differences between American theology and that of > our brethren around the world, though I think a greater number of > non-American believers practice tithing than abstention or > prohibition. > > Blessings, > Don From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 22 09:41:05 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:41:05 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> Homosexuals have always recruited, and now they are openly using the government "public" school system and the entertainment industry to do so - with the implicit endorsement of the Democrat President and other Democrat elected officials. The case you describe suggests some very serious demonic spiritual involvement because it's not merely a foolish experimentation, due to social influence (and likely abuse and/or neglect and poor role models at home), but they are also involved in incest (if I understood you correctly). It is cause for lots of prayer and for clear boundaries "We love you and are praying for you and will be here when you are ready to put your lives back together. But do not take this as an endorsement - you and we both know that what you are doing is foolish and wrong." Give them a safe place to return while they are being chastised by the Holy Spirit in the meanwhile. No one in rebellion against the Lord God has joy, they may deceive themselves into thinking that they are happy - but they are not - they are merely 'stimulated' by a poison to the their spirits (and usually also a literal poison to their bodies). BTW: I am guessing that there is some sort of substance-abuse involved, though that may not yet be evident. Prayers have been raised ... > usacomputertech wrote: > I need you guys to pray for a woman in my life who has been deceived > by the enemy and has fallen into sin. Her name is Ashley. She has > chosen to become a lesbian and to have a relationship with her > sister. > > It's painful to watch her make this decision. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sun May 22 12:06:42 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:06:42 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <1306035713.4903.6.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <1306035713.4903.6.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <4DD93492.4010403@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/21/2011 08:41 PM, Mike McMullin wrote: > On Sat, 2011-05-21 at 18:41 -0700, usacomputertech wrote: >> I need you guys to pray for a woman in my life who has been deceived >> by the enemy and has fallen into sin. Her name is Ashley. She has >> chosen to become a lesbian and to have a relationship with her >> sister. > Love her, pray for her, let her know that you're holding her up before > the Lord. > She knows I'm praying for her but she absolutely does not want me to talk to her any more. I think it's the guilt. >> It's painful to watch her make this decision. > I rather expect this to end badly, a relationship with someone that > close screams experimentation. I know a woman who divorced her husband, > became a "lipstick lesbian", fell in love with an old school mate, had a > 2 year relationship with her school mate before realizing that she > really wasn't a lesbian, and ended up married to a male. > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sun May 22 12:16:49 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 09:16:49 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/22/2011 06:41 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Homosexuals have always recruited, and now they are openly using > the government "public" school system and the entertainment industry > to do so - with the implicit endorsement of the Democrat President > and other Democrat elected officials. I'll agree (given my present situation) that there are state funded people that are pushing / allowing homosexuality, however I don't believe negative talk about our president is ever a good idea. I believe in what the Bible says about blessing and cursing and the power of the toung so please don't put a curse on our president. > > The case you describe suggests some very serious demonic spiritual > involvement because it's not merely a foolish experimentation, due to > social influence (and likely abuse and/or neglect and poor role models > at home), but they are also involved in incest (if I understood you > correctly). I don't think it's her biological sister but an adopted one. I do believe it's a demonic influence. I've had a lot (too much) influence from gays and lesbians lately and have had to be on guard all the time to stay away from them and get out of those situations and all I can say is it seems that they really enjoy trying to turn someone gay or at least get them to admit they are. I think it helps them feel more secure about themselves having someone that is like minded. > > It is cause for lots of prayer and for clear boundaries "We love you and > are praying for you and will be here when you are ready to put your lives > back together. But do not take this as an endorsement - you and we both > know that what you are doing is foolish and wrong." I don't understand why I have come into contact with so many gay / lesbian people lately or at least people becoming gay / lesbian and the strange thing is the lesbians seem to want to flirt with me even though I'm a straight guy. I don't understand it. All I can see is that it's an attack from the enemy. If there is anything I think I understand about it it would be that they are lonely, looking for something (GOD) to fill their God shaped hole and are sticking things in there like me (or trying to) instead of going to the source. They know they can't pervert God and get Him to change so they want to get a servant of God to compromise giving them the validation they want. I guess you could say I need prayer too because of the increasing Evil I'm being exposed to. > > Give them a safe place to return while they are being chastised by the > Holy Spirit in the meanwhile. > > No one in rebellion against the Lord God has joy, they may deceive > themselves into thinking that they are happy - but they are not - they > are merely 'stimulated' by a poison to the their spirits (and usually > also a literal poison to their bodies). Yes > > BTW: I am guessing that there is some sort of substance-abuse > involved, though that may not yet be evident. I don't think so in this case. > > Prayers have been raised ... > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> I need you guys to pray for a woman in my life who has been deceived >> by the enemy and has fallen into sin. Her name is Ashley. She has >> chosen to become a lesbian and to have a relationship with her >> sister. >> >> It's painful to watch her make this decision. > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 22 13:40:39 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 13:40:39 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DD94A97.60002@bibleseven.com> > however I don't believe negative talk about our president is ever a > good idea. I believe in what the Bible says about blessing and > cursing and the power of the toung so please don't put a curse on > our president. First of all, I never put a "curse" on the President. Second of all, if you read the Psalms, an imprecatory prayer (not a curse) is made several times by David and others. (It is available to debate if the Lord God approved, and also if He did so then - if the practice is carried-forward with His approval to NT-Christians. An argument has been made that the aspostle Paul more than once uttered an imprecatory prayer in the form of a call for severe chastizement of those who were leading believers astray.) Third of all, Jesus was the most vociferous critic of those who accepted a position of leadership and then led the people away from God's truth. Fourth of all, one "blesses" an "enemy of the truth" by praying that they will leave their sin (which is named) and that they will return to the truth (or discover what they have not yet known) - you cannot do that if you pretend there is no sin - or you refuse to name it. > I don't think it's her biological sister but an adopted one. That is irrelevant - it is the abomination of incest. > I do believe it's a demonic influence. I've had a lot (too much) > influence from gays and lesbians lately and have had to be on guard > all the time to stay away from them and get out of those situations > and all I can say is it seems that they really enjoy trying to turn > someone gay or at least get them to admit they are. I think it helps > them feel more secure about themselves having someone that is like > minded. Misery loves company. > I don't understand why I have come into contact with so many gay / > lesbian people lately or at least people becoming gay / lesbian and > the strange thing is the lesbians seem to want to flirt with me even > though I'm a straight guy. I don't understand it. All I can see is > that it's an attack from the enemy. If there is anything I think I > understand about it it would be that they are lonely, looking for > something (GOD) to fill their God shaped hole and are sticking things > in there like me (or trying to) instead of going to the source. They > know they can't pervert God and get Him to change so they want to get > a servant of God to compromise giving them the validation they want. > I guess you could say I need prayer too because of the increasing > Evil I'm being exposed to. The enemy must believe one or both of two things, correctly or incorrectly, about you if he is diverting resources against you: a. You are more vulnerable than average to that specific temptation. b. He is afraid of you for some reason. > > BTW: I am guessing that there is some sort of substance-abuse > > involved, though that may not yet be evident. > I don't think so in this case. It may not be apparent ... yet. Watch for it. If not yet, it will be, brain-altering chemicals will be necessary to blunt the conviction of God as to the terrible choice(s) and the ensuing embarassment. -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sun May 22 17:42:22 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 14:42:22 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD94A97.60002@bibleseven.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD94A97.60002@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD9833E.7080502@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/22/2011 10:40 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> however I don't believe negative talk about our president is ever a >> good idea. I believe in what the Bible says about blessing and >> cursing and the power of the toung so please don't put a curse on >> our president. > > First of all, I never put a "curse" on the President. > > Second of all, if you read the Psalms, an imprecatory prayer (not a > curse) is made several times by David and others. (It is available to > debate if the Lord God approved, and also if He did so then - if the > practice is carried-forward with His approval to NT-Christians. An > argument has been made that the aspostle Paul more than once uttered > an imprecatory prayer in the form of a call for severe chastizement > of those who were leading believers astray.) > > Third of all, Jesus was the most vociferous critic of those who > accepted a position of leadership and then led the people away > from God's truth. > > Fourth of all, one "blesses" an "enemy of the truth" by praying > that they will leave their sin (which is named) and that they will > return to the truth (or discover what they have not yet known) - > you cannot do that if you pretend there is no sin - or you refuse > to name it. I have witnessed God's wrath coming upon those who have severely done me wrong in the past. I've seen God allow them to die very quickly and very unpleasant deaths and that's why I always pray for mercy for those who do me wrong. I have found in my personal walk with the Lord that when I tell others that someone is negative or tell them negative things about someone they only become worse, but if I speak blessing (not cursing) over their lives proclaiming a positive outcome and thanking God that they are good people and that He is at work in their lives and that He is helping them, then I see a turn around. I use to pray differently but that was before the Lord showed me the error of my ways. I personally believe that if we keep saying bad things about the president that he will become even worse than what we say about him, but if we use the authority God gave us to speak life about him instead of death our nation will be blessed. > >> I don't think it's her biological sister but an adopted one. > > That is irrelevant - it is the abomination of incest. I guess that is left up to God to judge. In my perspective it's a biological problem but maybe to God the symbolism is more than that. I do not have the wisdom to judge this situation on the grounds of incest alone. > >> I do believe it's a demonic influence. I've had a lot (too much) >> influence from gays and lesbians lately and have had to be on guard >> all the time to stay away from them and get out of those situations >> and all I can say is it seems that they really enjoy trying to turn >> someone gay or at least get them to admit they are. I think it helps >> them feel more secure about themselves having someone that is like >> minded. > > Misery loves company. > >> I don't understand why I have come into contact with so many gay / >> lesbian people lately or at least people becoming gay / lesbian and >> the strange thing is the lesbians seem to want to flirt with me even >> though I'm a straight guy. I don't understand it. All I can see is >> that it's an attack from the enemy. If there is anything I think I >> understand about it it would be that they are lonely, looking for >> something (GOD) to fill their God shaped hole and are sticking things >> in there like me (or trying to) instead of going to the source. They >> know they can't pervert God and get Him to change so they want to get >> a servant of God to compromise giving them the validation they want. >> I guess you could say I need prayer too because of the increasing >> Evil I'm being exposed to. > > The enemy must believe one or both of two things, correctly or > incorrectly, > about you if he is diverting resources against you: > > a. You are more vulnerable than average to that specific temptation. > > b. He is afraid of you for some reason. I'm not going to say I'm not vulnerable because I believe that would be inviting the enemy to do worse. I am single and waiting for God to send me someone who is supportive. It seems that the Lord is leading me into this temptation because the people in my life ask for my help knowing that I will reach out with a hand of love demonstrating Christ's love and not instantly reject them. They know I'm different and that I'll try to work with them. I believe that my ministry has been put on hold here in this physical area and that I need to leave for a while as soon as I can. As God has taught me I should only accept those who seek me out or bring their problems to my attention and I'm obligated to accept them and help them until they choose to walk away from God. > >> > BTW: I am guessing that there is some sort of substance-abuse >> > involved, though that may not yet be evident. >> I don't think so in this case. > > It may not be apparent ... yet. Watch for it. If not yet, it will be, > brain-altering chemicals will be necessary to blunt the conviction > of God as to the terrible choice(s) and the ensuing embarassment. > > I do know the State has her on medications for depression. I tried to convince her that God could help her with that and she appeared to believe it. She had a very strong faith, and very strong convictions but something happened. I honestly think the State is partly to blame because they knew she was perusing a positive relationship with a man and tried to cut her off from that for fear that she would become independent. I think they encouraged her friends to come over more often and that her lesbian friend kept pressuring her and that as soon as she allowed the demon of deception to enter her heart and mind that she became a completely different person. I wonder if she's too ashamed to go back. -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From space1701 at sbcglobal.net Sun May 22 19:43:14 2011 From: space1701 at sbcglobal.net (Daniel Wright) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 16:43:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Linux4christians] 3 Message-ID: <226081.88067.qm@web80608.mail.mud.yahoo.com> The absolute power over women, over any of them!... http://criterium-architecture.fr/friends_links.php?laolid=26n4 From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 22 20:53:35 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 20:53:35 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Proverbs 2 Message-ID: <4DD9B00F.6030005@bibleseven.com> Monday Proverbs 2 Benefits of Seeking Wisdom 2:1 My child, if you receive my words, and store up my commands within you, 2:2 by making your ear attentive to wisdom, and by turning your heart to understanding, 2:3 indeed, if you call out for discernment -- raise your voice for understanding -- 2:4 if you seek it like silver, and search for it like hidden treasure, 2:5 then you will understand how to fear the Lord, and you will discover knowledge about God. 2:6 For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth comes knowledge and understanding. 2:7 He stores up effective counsel for the upright, and is like a shield for those who live with integrity, 2:8 to guard the paths of the righteous and to protect the way of his pious ones. 2:9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice and equity -- every good way. 2:10 For wisdom will enter your heart, and moral knowledge will be attractive to you. 2:11 Discretion will protect you, understanding will guard you, 2:12 to deliver you from the way of the wicked, from those speaking perversity, 2:13 who leave the upright paths to walk on the dark ways, 2:14 who delight in doing evil, they rejoice in perverse evil; 2:15 whose paths are morally crooked, and who are devious in their ways; 2:16 to deliver you from the adulteress, from the sexually loose woman who speaks flattering words; 2:17 who leaves the husband from her younger days, and forgets her marriage covenant made before God. 2:18 For her house sinks down to death, and her paths lead to the place of the departed spirits. 2:19 None who go in to her will return, nor will they reach the paths of life. 2:20 So you will walk in the way of good people, and will keep on the paths of the righteous. 2:21 For the upright will reside in the land, and those with integrity will remain in it, 2:22 but the wicked will be removed from the land, and the treacherous will be torn away from it. Prayer Lord, You lead us to knowledge and understanding and if we allow Your Holy Spirit to bring them together we will gain the wisdom You desire for us. My I be attentive to Your teaching and seek-after Your wisdom. Commentary King Solomon, having been blessed with the gift of exceptional wisdom from the Lord God, decided to keep a record of what he learned through that gift. In Proverbs 2 he broke-out the elements of how other might seek and acquire the Lord's wisdom through him. The learner had to be willing "... if you receive my words, and store up my commands within you, by making your ear attentive to wisdom, and by turning your heart to understanding, indeed, if you call out for discernment -- raise your voice for understanding -- if you seek it like silver, and search for it like hidden treasure ..." The Lord God would reward him "... then you will understand how to fear the Lord, and you will discover knowledge about God." Wisdom is knowledge plus understanding "For the Lord gives wisdom, and from his mouth comes knowledge and understanding." The wisdom of God transforms a person "Then you will understand righteousness and justice and equity -- every good way. For wisdom will enter your heart, and moral knowledge will be attractive to you." Interaction Consider The primary goal is "... you will discover knowledge about God." Discuss Could it be that the Lord told Solomon that he needed to both appeal to people to seek wisdom for its own sake and to keep the out of trouble? "... deliver you from the way of the wicked, from those speaking perversity ..." Reflect What a shame that Solomon forgot much of the wisdom that he communicated from the Lord God to others and rather practiced the un-wise ways against which he warned. Share When have you experienced or observed the benefits of seeking wisdom and the negative consequences of refusing wisdom? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the path to wisdom that you need to handle an especially difficult challenge in your life. Action: Today I will humble myself, pray, and reflect as I make myself available to the teaching of the Holy Spirit. As is appropriate I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement with me for this. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Proverbs 3 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sun May 22 21:53:59 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 21:53:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DD9BE37.1070706@lightlink.com> On 05/22/2011 09:41 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: [snip] > > No one in rebellion against the Lord God has joy, they may deceive > themselves into thinking that they are happy - but they are not - they > are merely 'stimulated' by a poison to the their spirits (and usually > also a literal poison to their bodies). [snip] QUITE right! Statistically, queers have a MUCH higher level of substance abuse (drugs and alcohol or both) than per ca pita than the heterosexual population. It takes drugs and alcohol to be able to live an unnatural lifestyle. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Sun May 22 22:03:10 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 19:03:10 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD9BE37.1070706@lightlink.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD9BE37.1070706@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DD9C05E.2030901@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/22/2011 06:53 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 05/22/2011 09:41 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > [snip] > >> >> No one in rebellion against the Lord God has joy, they may deceive >> themselves into thinking that they are happy - but they are not - they >> are merely 'stimulated' by a poison to the their spirits (and usually >> also a literal poison to their bodies). > > [snip] > > QUITE right! Statistically, queers have a MUCH higher level of substance > abuse (drugs and alcohol or both) than per ca pita than the heterosexual > population. It takes drugs and alcohol to be able to live an unnatural > lifestyle. > > Fred I wouldn't say it takes drugs to live an unnatural life style. Plenty of people live an unnatural life style without drugs or alcohol depending on how you defined unusual life style. I think sex and what some call love can be an addicting thing. Being accepted is addicting as well. It's like a drug and one addiction leads to another. > -- > "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it > tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sun May 22 22:09:57 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:09:57 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: fairy wishes Message-ID: <4DD9C1F5.3040509@lightlink.com> *I met a fairy today that said she would grant me one wish.* *"I want to live forever," I said.** **"Sorry," said the fairy, "I'm not allowed to grant wishes like that!"** **"Fine," I said, "then I want to die after Congress gets their heads out of the sand!"** **"You're a sly one ," said the fairy.* -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sun May 22 22:18:19 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 22:18:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The recession has hit everybody really hard ... Message-ID: <4DD9C3EB.1010502@lightlink.com> My neighbor got a pre-declined credit card in the mail. CEO's are now playing miniature golf. Exxon-Mobil laid off 25 Congressmen. I saw a Mormon with only one wife. If the bank returns your check marked "Insufficient Funds," you call them and ask if they meant you or them. McDonald's is selling the 1/4 ouncer. Parents in Beverly Hills fired their nannies and learned their children's names. My cousin had an exorcism but couldn't afford to pay for it, and they re-possessed her! A truckload of Americans was caught sneaking into Mexico. A picture is now only worth 200 words. When Bill and Hillary travel together, they now have to share a room. The Treasure Island casino in Las Vegas is now managed by Somali pirates. Congress says they are looking into this Bernard Madoff scandal. Oh Great! The guy who made $50 Billion disappear is being investigated by the people who made $1.5 Trillion disappear! -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parrisdc at gmail.com Sun May 22 23:53:56 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Sun, 22 May 2011 23:53:56 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] Formerly-great Christian group, predicts final judgement for May 21st. In-Reply-To: <20110521213717.00006c53@unknown> References: <4DC7A62C.5050705@smalltimer.net> <20110521213717.00006c53@unknown> Message-ID: Hehe... Yeah, I see I got left behind. ;-))) Although I did read that brother Campings is totally 'mystified'. Apparently, he's still here, too. Sigh! On Sun, May 22, 2011 at 00:37, Eddy wrote: > Well, here we all are... > Unless I didn't make the cut... O_O > > Hehe, back to loving my neighbor it is! :P > > -Eddy > > On Mon, 9 May 2011 05:28:25 -0400 > Don Parris wrote: > > > On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 04:30, David Ormand > > wrote: > > > > > > Maybe some others have seen this. There are huge bilboards all > > > > over > > > Mexico City predicting the Great Final Judgement for May 21st. > > > > > > Yep, saw something like that in West Virginia recently, when I was > > > there on business. I figured the other fellows in the car with me > > > probably had the usual "stupid Christians" reaction. > > > > > > Christians didn't put much emphasis on alcohol until the mid-19th > > >> Century. > > >> Now, roughly 1 1/2 centuries later, we have a whole sub-culture > > >> here in America that believes "Thou Shalt Not Consume Alcohol" was > > >> the 11th Commandment. Snicker snicker! > > >> > > > > > > As a Southern Baptist, I think I'm about over that now. Still > > > prevalent in my church among the older generation. As a "church > > > covenant" thing, I think it is a fine thing. As a point of > > > judgment... not. Now, having recently taken a discipleship class > > > that emphasized "giving" in the usual Baptist terms, I am reacting > > > to the Tithe as another evangelical-accepted legalism. I don't see > > > any good support in Scripture that the Tithe is an obligation on > > > Christians. I don't think I'm going to convince my SB pastors, > > > though! > > > > > > (sorry about derailing this thread!) > > > > > > > > > Well, you raise another of my favorite points, which wouldn't set > > > well with > > my fellow National Baptists, either. Adhering to tithing is the same > > as adhering to circumcision in my book - Galatians, anyone? :-) > > > > But I think we're only derailing this thread to the extent that we're > > not strictly focused on the end-times. We're focusing more on Tim's > > comment about the differences between American theology and that of > > our brethren around the world, though I think a greater number of > > non-American believers practice tithing than abstention or > > prohibition. > > > > Blessings, > > Don > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Mon May 23 09:53:56 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:53:56 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> It really perplexes me that so many on this list have such an anti-establishment mentality when it comes to authority within the Church, but when a government official has polices that are openly against God's words we can't state the facts without this load of guilt being dumped. It is simply a fact that the current US President has and does support the homosexual agenda. He so stated before the election and although he has not moved fast enough to appease the liberals, he has and does support their cause. He has snubed ever single Christian Holiday including the Day of Prayer (the first US President to do so by the way) and has not failed to give some form of homage to every muslim holiday. Actions speak louder than words! It is also a fact that the Democrat party also support this sin. Don't take my word for it, go to their website and see for yourself. http://www.democrats.org/issues/civil_rights * Enacting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which includes measures prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender identity; * Repealing "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in a sensible way that strengthens our armed forces and our national security; * Ensuring civil unions and equal federal rights for LGBT couples, as well as fully repealing the Defense of Marriage Act; It is not my intentions for this to come off political, but I believe that I should follow authority up until it violates God's laws, which clearly (in my opinion) this administration has done. And for the record, if the authority within my denomination begins to support such anti-God polices, I will turn on them just as adamantly as I have supported them. My $0.02 -- bstaggs <>< On 5/22/2011 11:16 AM, usacomputertech wrote: > On 05/22/2011 06:41 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> Homosexuals have always recruited, and now they are openly using >> the government "public" school system and the entertainment industry >> to do so - with the implicit endorsement of the Democrat President >> and other Democrat elected officials. > I'll agree (given my present situation) that there are state funded > people that are pushing / allowing homosexuality, however I don't > believe negative talk about our president is ever a good idea. I > believe in what the Bible says about blessing and cursing and the > power of the toung so please don't put a curse on our president. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 23 10:56:44 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 08:56:44 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> Message-ID: *sigh* No, he did not snub the National Day of Prayer: http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/prayerday.asp There is a lot to detest in President Obama, and he has done enough demonstrably idiotic things to cast doubt on his judgment, so I don't understand why people cling to fictitious stories as a basis of indignation. How about his open statements supporting abortion, and the votes he made as Senator on that subject? The specific points you cite below indicate that the Democratic Party seeks to prohibit treating homosexuals differently. I do have a problem with society in general promoting homosexuality as acceptable behavior, but I have trouble getting upset about the Civil Rights Act. Again, their legislation that openly promotes murder is of greater concern. Here's the deal about homosexuality: I do believe that God considers homosexual sex a sin; Leviticus makes that clear. But it's neither more nor less than drunkenness, gossip, slander, adultery, greed, cheating, etc. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Why do we focus on that is the specific sin not to tolerate? Or should we also encourage legislation to allow employers to refuse hiring anyone guilty of any of those other sins that prevent one from "entering the kingdom of Heaven" (see again 1 Cor 6)? This is an example I frequently see of legalistic cherry-picking. When we pick up on one specific element, we run the risk of being the pharisee beating our breast and praying "O Lord, I thank thee that I am not like other men." All too often, we are. Shalom, *PBS* On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > It really perplexes me that so many on this list have such an > anti-establishment mentality when it comes to authority within the Church, > but when a government official has polices that are openly against God's > words we can't state the facts without this load of guilt being dumped. > > It is simply a fact that the current US President has and does support the > homosexual agenda. He so stated before the election and although he has not > moved fast enough to appease the liberals, he has and does support their > cause. He has snubed ever single Christian Holiday including the Day of > Prayer (the first US President to do so by the way) and has not failed to > give some form of homage to every muslim holiday. Actions speak louder than > words! > > It is also a fact that the Democrat party also support this sin. Don't > take my word for it, go to their website and see for yourself. > > http://www.democrats.org/issues/civil_rights > > > - Enacting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which includes > measures prohibiting discrimination based on sexual orientation and gender > identity; > - Repealing ?Don?t Ask, Don?t Tell? in a sensible way that strengthens > our armed forces and our national security; > - Ensuring civil unions and equal federal rights for LGBT couples, as > well as fully repealing the Defense of Marriage Act; > > > It is not my intentions for this to come off political, but I believe that > I should follow authority up until it violates God's laws, which clearly (in > my opinion) this administration has done. And for the record, if the > authority within my denomination begins to support such anti-God polices, I > will turn on them just as adamantly as I have supported them. > > My $0.02 > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 5/22/2011 11:16 AM, usacomputertech wrote: > > On 05/22/2011 06:41 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > > Homosexuals have always recruited, and now they are openly using > the government "public" school system and the entertainment industry > to do so - with the implicit endorsement of the Democrat President > and other Democrat elected officials. > > I'll agree (given my present situation) that there are state funded people > that are pushing / allowing homosexuality, however I don't believe negative > talk about our president is ever a good idea. I believe in what the Bible > says about blessing and cursing and the power of the toung so please don't > put a curse on our president. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Mon May 23 11:15:54 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 10:15:54 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDA7A2A.8020406@staggs.net> I did not say he canceled the Day of Prayer, I said he "snubbed" it and I still believe I am correct about that. He did not host a public prayer as the previous Presidents have. I am incorrect? If so I am will publicly apologize for this inaccuracy. As for claiming that I am "legalistic cherry-picking", that is in my opinion uncalled for and simply unfair. I was addressing his suport for the endorsement of a sin that was brought up by someone other than me. Becuase I did not included an all inclusive list of areas that I feel he has crossed the line you are faulting me, and even inferring that I am being self righteously? Really? -- bstaggs <>< On 5/23/2011 9:56 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > *sigh* No, he did not snub the National Day of Prayer: > http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/prayerday.asp > There is a lot to detest in President Obama, and he has done enough > demonstrably idiotic things to cast doubt on his judgment, so I don't > understand why people cling to fictitious stories as a basis of > indignation. How about his open statements supporting abortion, and > the votes he made as Senator on that subject? > > The specific points you cite below indicate that the Democratic Party > seeks to prohibit treating homosexuals differently. I do have a > problem with society in general promoting homosexuality as acceptable > behavior, but I have trouble getting upset about the Civil Rights > Act. Again, their legislation that openly promotes murder is of > greater concern. > > Here's the deal about homosexuality: I do believe that God considers > homosexual sex a sin; Leviticus makes that clear. But it's neither > more nor less than drunkenness, gossip, slander, adultery, greed, > cheating, etc. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Why do we focus on that is the > specific sin not to tolerate? Or should we also encourage legislation > to allow employers to refuse hiring anyone guilty of any of those > other sins that prevent one from "entering the kingdom of Heaven" (see > again 1 Cor 6)? > > This is an example I frequently see of legalistic cherry-picking. When > we pick up on one specific element, we run the risk of being the > pharisee beating our breast and praying "O Lord, I thank thee that I > am not like other men." > > All too often, we are. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Billy F. Staggs > wrote: > > It really perplexes me that so many on this list have such an > anti-establishment mentality when it comes to authority within the > Church, but when a government official has polices that are openly > against God's words we can't state the facts without this load of > guilt being dumped. > > It is simply a fact that the current US President has and does > support the homosexual agenda. He so stated before the election > and although he has not moved fast enough to appease the liberals, > he has and does support their cause. He has snubed ever single > Christian Holiday including the Day of Prayer (the first US > President to do so by the way) and has not failed to give some > form of homage to every muslim holiday. Actions speak louder than > words! > > It is also a fact that the Democrat party also support this sin. > Don't take my word for it, go to their website and see for yourself. > > http://www.democrats.org/issues/civil_rights > > * Enacting the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, which > includes measures prohibiting discrimination based on sexual > orientation and gender identity; > * Repealing ?Don?t Ask, Don?t Tell? in a sensible way that > strengthens our armed forces and our national security; > * Ensuring civil unions and equal federal rights for LGBT > couples, as well as fully repealing the Defense of Marriage Act; > > > It is not my intentions for this to come off political, but I > believe that I should follow authority up until it violates God's > laws, which clearly (in my opinion) this administration has done. > And for the record, if the authority within my denomination begins > to support such anti-God polices, I will turn on them just as > adamantly as I have supported them. > > My $0.02 > > -- > bstaggs <>< > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Mon May 23 14:23:19 2011 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:23:19 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> Message-ID: >An interesting concept I have been hearing about is the suggestion that "elders", "deacons", and "pastors" (bishops) are all used >interchangeably in the NT. Here's an essay that gathers together all uses of the Greek terms (presbuteros, episkopos, poimainen, >diakonos) and shows how they were used in context: >http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ee01d.htm Pastors, elders, presbyters, bishops are interchangeable. These are those who are entrusted with spiritual oversight of the sheep. NOT so with deacons, who are entrusted with the physical needs of the flock (feeding the widows, orphans, etc.). __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 6145 (20110523) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 23 14:58:34 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 14:58:34 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DDAAE5A.20805@bibleseven.com> The separation of deacon and elder in the Biblical text is unmistakable, a deacon is specifically described apart from an elder, and the role and gifting of a pastor/bishop/shepherd clearly at least 'greatest among peers' (elders, not deacons). It is one of the incomprehensible errors of the Southern Baptist Conference. Apparently, some time in the 1950's someone with political clout in the association pushed-through the Biblically-incorrect merging of elder and deacon (presumably to draw an artificial line of difference with mainline denominations). The result is that people called and gifted to maintain the physical plant share a role/title with those called and gifted for spiritual leadership - the result is a lot of bad advice, a lot of confusion, and a lot of frustration on both sides. I fear, however, that the leaders in the SBC lack the courage to change this back to a Biblical model. > Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > An interesting concept I have been hearing about is the suggestion > > that "elders", "deacons", and "pastors" (bishops) are all used > > >interchangeably in the NT. Here's an essay that gathers together > > all uses of the Greek terms (presbuteros, episkopos, poimainen, > > >diakonos) and shows how they were used in context: > > http://www.biblepages.web.surftown.se/ee01d.htm > > Pastors, elders, presbyters, bishops are interchangeable. These are > those who are entrusted with spiritual oversight of the sheep. NOT so > with deacons, who are entrusted with the physical needs of the flock > (feeding the widows, orphans, etc.). -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Mon May 23 15:44:12 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 13:44:12 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: <4DDA7A2A.8020406@staggs.net> References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> <4DDA7A2A.8020406@staggs.net> Message-ID: He did not host a public prayer; that part is true. "As previous Presidents have" is not. Did you read the Snopes article? Here is the relevant portion (emphasis mine): Although it is true that President Obama has so far chosen not to host an ecumenical service in the East Room of the White House in observance of the National Day of Prayer as his predecessor, President George W. Bush, did each year throughout his tenure in office, that service was a personal preference of President Bush; it was neither an official ceremony prescribed by the bill that established the National Day of Prayer nor a long-standing presidential tradition. In fact, George W. Bush is the *only* president who has regularly organized White House events in observance that day: *President Ronald Reagan hosted only one throughout his eight years in office* (a 1982 Rose Garden event), *President George H. W. Bush also hosted only one during his four years in office* (a 1989 State Dining Room breakfast), and *President Bill Clinton hosted none at all in the course of his eight-year presidency*. I take full blame for making it look like I was personally slinging accuastions at you; my gripe was against the general population of Christians (I would go as far as to suggest the majority, although that is based only on personal observation and not a stastically valid survey) who latch on to one specific behavior as a sin that we should take extra effort to condemn in others. Of course you feel just as strongly about other areas of sin. In the wider context of Christian rhetoric, however, this is the one that *always* gets singled out. Perhaps that is because the high rate of divorce among the Christian church, or any survey of alcoholism, or a focus on high-profile evangelists embezzling funds and using congregational contributions to feather their own nests, would make public condemnation of other sins awkward. O God, I thank thee that I am not like other men. How Obama (and you) feel about sin is not something I have the power to discern. He has chosen not to cast stones at others' sins, it is true, but his public actions that I am aware of are in line with what I said earlier about supporting the ban on discriminatory actions based on a particular sin. If our President -- or anyone in authority -- singled out one sinful behavior as justification for refusing employment (in the army or anywhere else), or other condemnatory punishment, I would be extremely fearful that their gunsights would focus on me and any sin in my life next. To paraphrase Niem?ller, I did not speak up for the homosexuals, because I was not homosexual... Does that mean I believe we should be required by law to allow homosexuals to take positions of authority in our church, or teach our children? No; that is private choice and the government should butt out entirely. Homosexuals -- along with the rest of us who sin one way or another -- should be welcomed with love into church, but they should no more hold a clerical or teaching position than should an adulterer, drunkard, habitual gossip, etc. Again, I apologize for making a general disagreement personal. Billy, you obviously feel very strongly about the subject and I respect that. At this point I would suggest that we are unlikely to convince one another to change our positions either way, so perhaps it would be best for us to move on. I love you as a brother in Christ no less nor do I question your faith because your opinion differs from mine, but I can only see our discussion getting more heated if it continues. I will gladly read any final thoughts you have, which I will treat as the last word. Shalom, *PBS* On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > I did not say he canceled the Day of Prayer, I said he "snubbed" it and I > still believe I am correct about that. He did not host a public prayer as > the previous Presidents have. I am incorrect? If so I am will publicly > apologize for this inaccuracy. > > As for claiming that I am "legalistic cherry-picking", that is in my > opinion uncalled for and simply unfair. I was addressing his suport for the > endorsement of a sin that was brought up by someone other than me. Becuase > I did not included an all inclusive list of areas that I feel he has crossed > the line you are faulting me, and even inferring that I am being self > righteously? Really? > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Mon May 23 16:27:28 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 15:27:28 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> <4DDA7A2A.8020406@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDAC330.2090400@staggs.net> Brother Peter, Your response was very gracious, very kind, very Christian. My sinceriest apologizes is I came off as singling out homosexuality as the forefront of my dislike for sin. Sin is sin and I have a universal dislike for all, even when I find it at my door. Because I know that unresolved it will absolutely lead to the destruction of the person or the people. Genesis 4:6--7 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him. There is a better way: John 8:31--32 ^Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, thenare ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. We may not have the same philosophies about how the govement should handle there matters, but I think our personal convictions are more alike than diffent. May God contiune to Bless your efforts. Sincerely, -- bstaggs <>< PS: No worries about inferring I am "self righteous", my wife would does it all the time, but then again she never let's me have the last word either. Thanks! :-) On 5/23/2011 2:44 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > He did not host a public prayer; that part is true. "As previous > Presidents have" is not. Did you read the Snopes article? Here is > the relevant portion (emphasis mine): > Although it is true that President Obama has so far chosen not to host > an ecumenical service in the East Room of the White House in > observance of the National Day of Prayer as his predecessor, President > George W. Bush, did each year throughout his tenure in office, that > service was a personal preference of President Bush; it was neither an > official ceremony prescribed by the bill that established the National > Day of Prayer nor a long-standing presidential tradition. In fact, > George W. Bush is the _only_ president who has regularly organized > White House events in observance that day: *President Ronald Reagan > hosted only one throughout his eight years in office* (a 1982 Rose > Garden event), *President George H. W. Bush also hosted only one > during his four years in office* (a 1989 State Dining Room breakfast), > and *President Bill Clinton hosted none at all in the course of his > eight-year presidency*. > > I take full blame for making it look like I was personally slinging > accuastions at you; my gripe was against the general population of > Christians (I would go as far as to suggest the majority, although > that is based only on personal observation and not a stastically valid > survey) who latch on to one specific behavior as a sin that we should > take extra effort to condemn in others. Of course you feel just as > strongly about other areas of sin. In the wider context of Christian > rhetoric, however, this is the one that *always* gets singled out. > Perhaps that is because the high rate of divorce among the Christian > church, or any survey of alcoholism, or a focus on high-profile > evangelists embezzling funds and using congregational contributions to > feather their own nests, would make public condemnation of other sins > awkward. O God, I thank thee that I am not like other men. > > How Obama (and you) feel about sin is not something I have the power > to discern. He has chosen not to cast stones at others' sins, it is > true, but his public actions that I am aware of are in line with what > I said earlier about supporting the ban on discriminatory actions > based on a particular sin. If our President -- or anyone in authority > -- singled out one sinful behavior as justification for refusing > employment (in the army or anywhere else), or other condemnatory > punishment, I would be extremely fearful that their gunsights would > focus on me and any sin in my life next. To paraphrase Niem?ller, I > did not speak up for the homosexuals, because I was not homosexual... > > Does that mean I believe we should be required by law to allow > homosexuals to take positions of authority in our church, or teach our > children? No; that is private choice and the government should butt > out entirely. Homosexuals -- along with the rest of us who sin one > way or another -- should be welcomed with love into church, but they > should no more hold a clerical or teaching position than should an > adulterer, drunkard, habitual gossip, etc. > > Again, I apologize for making a general disagreement personal. Billy, > you obviously feel very strongly about the subject and I respect > that. At this point I would suggest that we are unlikely to convince > one another to change our positions either way, so perhaps it would be > best for us to move on. I love you as a brother in Christ no less nor > do I question your faith because your opinion differs from mine, but I > can only see our discussion getting more heated if it continues. I > will gladly read any final thoughts you have, which I will treat as > the last word. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Billy F. Staggs > wrote: > > I did not say he canceled the Day of Prayer, I said he "snubbed" > it and I still believe I am correct about that. He did not host a > public prayer as the previous Presidents have. I am incorrect? If > so I am will publicly apologize for this inaccuracy. > > As for claiming that I am "legalistic cherry-picking", that is in > my opinion uncalled for and simply unfair. I was addressing his > suport for the endorsement of a sin that was brought up by someone > other than me. Becuase I did not included an all inclusive list > of areas that I feel he has crossed the line you are faulting me, > and even inferring that I am being self righteously? Really? > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon May 23 16:46:23 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:46:23 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Prayer Request. In-Reply-To: References: <4DD869BC.3060000@mindblowingidea.com> <4DD91271.4020408@bibleseven.com> <4DD936F1.1040600@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDA66F4.7020306@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDAC79F.2020707@lightlink.com> On 05/23/2011 10:56 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > > Here's the deal about homosexuality: I do believe that God considers > homosexual sex a sin; Leviticus makes that clear. But it's neither > more nor less than drunkenness, gossip, slander, adultery, greed, > cheating, etc. (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Why do we focus on that is the > specific sin not to tolerate? Or should we also encourage legislation > to allow employers to refuse hiring anyone guilty of any of those > other sins that prevent one from "entering the kingdom of Heaven" (see > again 1 Cor 6)? NO ONE here said anything about the workplace. What I said was the CONDONING of a sin, ANY sin, by ANY "church." The "focus" on that particular sin is because that is the one singular sin being publicly condoned by some conventions/denominations. If the PC USA condoned adultery, for example, I'd come down as hard on them for that as queer marriage or queers in the pulpit. > > This is an example I frequently see of legalistic cherry-picking. When > we pick up on one specific element, we run the risk of being the > pharisee beating our breast and praying "O Lord, I thank thee that I > am not like other men." NO, it isn't. You combine 2 issues here....not fair nor "legal" in a debate. The workplace is a legal issue of preference in hiring and conduct. Why should queers be allowed any more latitude and/or preference in the workplace than heterosexuals? The obvious answer is that they shouldn't. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon May 23 16:53:29 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 16:53:29 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch Message-ID: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> Normally I wouldn't send this here, however, because of it's importance and the draconian policies that Obama wants in place, I thought it best to at least give everyone a heads up. Fred Internet Kill Switch Coming Soon! Obama To Take Control Of The Internet This Week? *ALERT:*Now that Osama Bin Laden is dead Obama is pushing revamped Internet Kill Switch bill to silence anyone and everyone who opposes his regime! Obama says he needs to take away our Internet freedoms to protect us from terrorism. Stealing our online freedom does not protect us from terrorism; it's the perfect excuse for Obama to control the web. STOP OBAMA FROM CREATING AN INTERNET KILL SWITCH - Send Faxes To All 535 Congressmen! Senators Joseph Lieberman (I-CT) and Susan Collins (D-ME) reintroduced an extensive cyber-security legislation that would give Obama unprecedented power over the World Wide Web. Interestingly enough, in the latest version, the Senator's got rid of the Internet Kill Switch provision. In reality, they just gave the power to shut down the Internet to Homeland Security! Don't let the new version of this bill fool you. If this bill passes, Obama will still have total control over your Internet! *Internet Kill Switch To Destroy Conservative Voice? * Gaddafi killed the Internet in Libya. The Chinese government has limited their Internet access to prevent anti-government protestors. And Egypt issued a complete Internet blackout. Why are the Liberals fighting tooth and nail to shove this freedom crushing bill through Congress? Because they want to GAG the mouths of every American who speaks out against them! Protests in our own country are spreading like grass fire. Pro-union nuts are swarming capitals across the U.S. commanding bankrupt states give into their outrageous demands. Tea Partiers are showing up at the rallies and fighting back against the union thugs. I can just imagine Obama losing sleep because people who care about the future of our country are speaking out. Patriotic Americans are saying "Enough is enough" -- LOUD AND CLEAR. There's no better way to control the people than to kill their access to news and information. And there's no better way to shut down the fiscally conservative, pro-freedom movement than to destroy what created it -- the Internet. Believe me; I'm sure Obama wasn't pleased when the Tea Party began rolling out their demonstrations across the country. You can bet he wants to prevent an embarrassment like that from happening again. That's why he wants the power to shut down the Internet. Big government wants to control the websites you visit, your access to real information (not propaganda,) and your right to log onto the Internet as you please. If we let the government get their hands on our access to the World Wide Web, there will be no end to their freedom-grabbing pillage. *Liberals Want To Block Your Access To Certain Websites* The revised version of the proposed bill (called the Lieberman-Collins bill) would establish a White House Office of Cyberspace Policy. The job of this new bureaucracy would be to implement: "Instruments of national power relating to ensuring the security and resiliency of cyberspace" and with the enforcement of security standards to be developed by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) across public- and private-sector critical infrastructure systems." In other words, Obama will be able to use a "security breach" as an excuse to pull the plug on Internet access for over 20 million Americans. ' But Obama won't be able to /directly/shut down the Internet. If he declares a "cyber emergency," the Department of Homeland Security will issue an order to shut down the Internet for him! After all, Homeland Security works for Obama! Do you really want Napolitiano in charge of your Internet access? The Liberals are using some pretty crafty language. "/Big Brother Is Watching You" -- George Orwell, author of the book 1985./ STOP OBAMA FROM CREATING AN INTERNET KILL SWITCH - Send Faxes To All 535 Congressmen! *Liberals Want U.S. To Adopt Communist China Internet Policy* This proposal not only gives Obama complete control over the Internet, but it gives him the authority to reign over the telecommunications networks. Sen. Lieberman remarked, "The President will never take over --the government should never take over the Internet." Yet, he said some drastic measures must be taken to avoid a potential mass scale cyber-attack. He continued, "Right now, China, the government, can disconnect parts of its Internet in case of war. We need to have that here too." STOP OBAMA FROM CREATING AN INTERNET KILL SWITCH - Send Faxes To All 535 Congressmen! We /do not need/a Communist-style Internet take over. I don't know if Sen. Lieberman is aware, but China doesn't only exercise Internet restrictions during a time of war. They prevent access to certain sites and information EVERY DAY! China enforces strict Internet censorship through 60 laws and countless draconian administrative regulations. These laws gag critical opinions, corruption exposes and speech that protest their government. The communist country employs 50,000 people who act as Internet police, scouring the web for offenders to punish. Obama and his Liberal buddies have already nationalized two Chrysler and GM and pretty much usurped the entire banking industry. Now, they want to get their hands on the last bastion of freedom -- the Internet. Enough is enough! We must stop Obama's Internet grab before it's too late! *THIS IS NOT A FIGHT WE CAN AFFORD TO LOSE* *1. Select Below To Tell Congress To Stop The Communist-Style Internet Take Over!* STOP OBAMA FROM CREATING AN INTERNET KILL SWITCH - Send Faxes To All 535 Congressmen! 2. _*Send this Alert to EVERYONE*_you know and every like-minded friend on your personal email list who wants to stop Obama from stealing your Internet freedom. We need to get HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of faxes delivered to EACH AND EVERY Senator and Congressman. 3. *Keep calling your Senators today*, toll free numbers include _1-877-851-6437 and 1-866-220-0044, or call 1-202-225-3121 AND REGISTER YOUR OUTRAGE! Demand Congress stop Obama from creating an Internet kill switch!_ 4. *CALL President Obama, 202-456-1111 and 202-456-1414 *expressing your disdain and ABSOLUTE REJECTION of his big government's Internet take over. *5.* _*Print*_*this copy and pass it around*where normal working class Americans gather who care about the future of our country. Polling data reveals that Americans do not want the government controlling the Internet! *DO NOT BE SILENCED -- MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD!* NOTE: We need TENS OF THOUSANDS of faxes and PHONE CALLS and EMAILS delivered TO ALL CONGRESSMEN RIGHT AWAY! Your voice can be heard --- we need your urgent help at AmeriPAC. Even smaller donations are going to help. Any amount --- $1000, $500, $250, or even $100 will help us fight the battle to preserve free speech. It's time we stood up and said enough is enough! Please join us with your AmeriPAC donation TODAY. Thank you. DONATE NOW. Get My New Book Black and Blue as my gift to you and the country and say -- _"I Am Mad As Hell And I Am Not Going To Take This Anymore!"_ *Black & Blue: How Obama And The Democrats Are Beating Up The Constitution* The compelling story of how the Obama Administration and progressive Democrats are warping and contradicting the Constitution to make it fit with their radical agenda. The book covers Barack Obama's Chicago and Saul Alinsky days were he learned to "game the system" to bypass the rule of law. The book details how the progressive Democrats use groups like Acorn to gain power to force their socialism on the American people. For more information, visit _www.ameripac.org_ Defend America, Alan Gottlieb AmeriPAC President and Founder _www.Ameripac.org_ Please make checks payable to AmeriPAC: American Political Action Committee (AmeriPAC) PO Box 1682 Dept Code 2241-p-ag Bellevue, WA 98009-1682 /Paid for by AmeriPAC, a federally-authorized and qualified multicandidate political action committee. Contributions to AmeriPAC will be used in connection with federal elections. Maximum contribution per individual per calendar year is $5,000. Contributions from foreign nationals and corporations are prohibited. Contributions are not deductible for federal income tax purposes./ -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0000_header_ameripac.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 17381 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 23 21:16:22 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:16:22 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Proverbs 3 Message-ID: <4DDB06E6.9060308@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Proverbs 3 Exhortations to Seek Wisdom and Walk with the Lord 3:1 My child, do not forget my teaching, but let your heart keep my commandments, 3:2 for they will provide a long and full life, and they will add well-being to you. 3:3 Do not let truth and mercy leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. 3:4 Then you will find favor and good understanding, in the sight of God and people. 3:5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. 3:6 Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will make your paths straight. 3:7 Do not be wise in your own estimation; fear the Lord and turn away from evil. 3:8 This will bring healing to your body, and refreshment to your inner self. 3:9 Honor the Lord from your wealth and from the first fruits of all your crops; 3:10 then your barns will be filled completely, and your vats will overflow with new wine. 3:11 My child, do not despise discipline from the Lord, and do not loathe his rebuke. 3:12 For the Lord disciplines those he loves, just as a father disciplines the son in whom he delights. Blessings of Obtaining Wisdom 3:13 Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who obtains understanding. 3:14 For her benefit is more profitable than silver, and her gain is better than gold. 3:15 She is more precious than rubies, and none of the things you desire can compare with her. 3:16 Long life is in her right hand; in her left hand are riches and honor. 3:17 Her ways are very pleasant, and all her paths are peaceful. 3:18 She is like a tree of life to those who obtain her, and everyone who grasps hold of her will be blessed. 3:19 By wisdom the Lord laid the foundation of the earth; he established the heavens by understanding. 3:20 By his knowledge the primordial sea was broken open, and the clouds drip down dew. 3:21 My child, do not let them escape from your sight; safeguard sound wisdom and discretion. 3:22 So they will give life to you, and grace to adorn your neck. 3:23 Then you will walk on your way with security, and you will not stumble. 3:24 When you lie down you will not be filled with fear; when you lie down your sleep will be pleasant. 3:25 You will not be afraid of sudden disaster, or when destruction overtakes the wicked; 3:26 for the Lord will be the source of your confidence, and he will guard your foot from being caught in a trap. Wisdom Demonstrated in Relationships with People 3:27 Do not withhold good from those who need it, when you have the ability to help. 3:28 Do not say to your neighbor, "Go! Return tomorrow and I will give it," when you have it with you at the time. 3:29 Do not plot evil against your neighbor when he dwells by you unsuspectingly. 3:30 Do not accuse anyone without legitimate cause, if he has not treated you wrongly. 3:31 Do not envy a violent man, and do not choose to imitate any of his ways; 3:32 for one who goes astray is an abomination to the Lord, but he reveals his intimate counsel to the upright. 3:33 The Lord's curse is on the household of the wicked, but he blesses the home of the righteous. 3:34 Although he is scornful to arrogant scoffers, yet he shows favor to the humble. 3:35 The wise inherit honor, but he holds fools up to public contempt. Prayer Lord, Your wisdom blesses us as it blesses others through us, but we have to be willing recipients of the gift -- even when it makes us uncomfortable. May I accept Your wisdom even when it means discipline, inconvenience, and/or sacrifice for me. Commentary Solomon continued to emphasize the link between receiving wisdom and blessing "Do not let truth and mercy leave you; bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. Then you will find favor and good understanding, in the sight of God and people. Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not rely on your own understanding. Acknowledge him in all your ways, and he will make your paths straight." He also warned that we must accept the wisdom that disciplines together with the wisdom that brings blessing "My child, do not despise discipline from the Lord, and do not loathe his rebuke. For the Lord disciplines those he loves, just as a father disciplines the son in whom he delights." The blessings of wisdom include discernment "Blessed is the one who finds wisdom, and the one who obtains understanding ... the Lord will be the source of your confidence, and he will guard your foot from being caught in a trap." Wisdom means that we are without excuse because we will know what is right in the eyes of the Lord God and will not be selfish "Do not withhold good from those who need it, when you have the ability to help." One who lives according to the wisdom of the Lord will be respected among their peers and the opposite for those who reject wisdom "The wise inherit honor, but he holds fools up to public contempt." Interaction Consider Wisdom is a characteristic of the Lord God which He offers to share with humankind. Discuss Might Solomon have thought it necessary to warn people to accept the wisdom that disciplines because they historically may have thought that all difficulties were punishment? Reflect Solomon encouraged people to seek wisdom from God and not from man. Share When have you experienced God's disciple through wisdom and benefited from it? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where you need to seek wisdom from God instead of the human sources where you have been seeking it -- and have been coming up short. Action: Today I will humbly acknowledge that I have been seeking wisdom in all of the wrong places and will instead invest regular time in prayer and study of the wisdom that the Lord God has provided in His Bible. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Proverbs 4 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon May 23 21:29:57 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:29:57 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The nearly aborted president Message-ID: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> According to recently secured documents from the Immigration and Naturalization Services, evidence has emerged that President Obama's father, Barack Obama, Sr., apparently paid to send a young Kenyan girl he had impregnated in Massachusetts to London to have an abortion. Doing the work that investigative journalists of the mainstream media used to do, author Jack Cashill reveals that the foreign press, unlike their American counterparts, are all over the story. Far from speculation, according to the INS documents, the high school-aged girl was in Massachusetts on an exchange program when she evidently became pregnant by the 29-year-old Obama. /Asian News International/ notes that this incident occurred prior to 1973's /Roe v. Wade/ decision, meaning, "abortions were illegal in the U.S." http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1352838 -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Mon May 23 22:45:08 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 22:45:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 16:53 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Normally I wouldn't send this here, however, because of it's > importance and the draconian policies that Obama wants in place, I > thought it best to at least give everyone a heads up. > > > Fred Just exactly how did the US get the power to stop non-Americans from criticizing it? Frankly I'm a bit doubtful that such a thing is possible. From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Mon May 23 22:59:17 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 19:59:17 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The nearly aborted president In-Reply-To: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> I wish we could let this all die drop and just thank God we haven't been invaded yet. Re-electing him isn't a good idea depending on who runs against him. Lets hope God sends us someone who can help us by relying on God for wisdom. Lets hope America is desperate enough to trust in God again. On 05/23/2011 06:29 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > According to recently secured documents from the Immigration and > Naturalization Services, evidence has emerged that President Obama's > father, Barack Obama, Sr., apparently paid to send a young Kenyan girl > he had impregnated in Massachusetts to London to have an abortion. > > Doing the work that investigative journalists of the mainstream media > used to do, author Jack Cashill reveals > that > the foreign press, unlike their American counterparts, are all over > the story. Far from speculation, according to the INS documents, the > high school-aged girl was in Massachusetts on an exchange program when > she evidently became pregnant by the 29-year-old Obama. /Asian News > International/ notes that this incident occurred prior to 1973's /Roe > v. Wade/ decision, meaning, "abortions were illegal in the U.S." > > http://www.onenewsnow.com/Perspectives/Default.aspx?id=1352838 > -- > "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it > tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon May 23 23:59:16 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 23:59:16 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> On 05/23/2011 10:45 PM, Mike McMullin wrote: > On Mon, 2011-05-23 at 16:53 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: >> Normally I wouldn't send this here, however, because of it's >> importance and the draconian policies that Obama wants in place, I >> thought it best to at least give everyone a heads up. >> >> >> Fred > Just exactly how did the US get the power to stop non-Americans from > criticizing it? Frankly I'm a bit doubtful that such a thing is > possible. A lot of the traffic CAN be killed because so much is routed here in the US. This is more about killing ANY and ALL traffic that is contrary to NOBama's agenda, which is communist. Before the 2008 election, I did a long extensive investigation of him and his past. It has commie written ALL over it. 'Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it most likely is a duck. 8-) I suspect that Christians and others will have to start using PGP for a lot of their mail, until we're simply not allowed on the Net. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue May 24 00:01:14 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 00:01:14 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The nearly aborted president In-Reply-To: <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> On 05/23/2011 10:59 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > I wish we could let this all die drop and just thank God we haven't > been invaded yet. Re-electing him isn't a good idea depending on who > runs against him. Lets hope God sends us someone who can help us by > relying on God for wisdom. Lets hope America is desperate enough to > trust in God again. I keep praying for that, but sadly, I'm not seeing much sign that has happened or that it will. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 24 00:48:10 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 21:48:10 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The nearly aborted president In-Reply-To: <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DDB388A.6080606@mindblowingidea.com> On 05/23/2011 09:01 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 05/23/2011 10:59 PM, usacomputertech wrote: >> I wish we could let this all die drop and just thank God we haven't >> been invaded yet. Re-electing him isn't a good idea depending on who >> runs against him. Lets hope God sends us someone who can help us by >> relying on God for wisdom. Lets hope America is desperate enough to >> trust in God again. > > I keep praying for that, but sadly, I'm not seeing much sign that has > happened or that it will. > > Fred I think it's because too many people are trying to fix things themselves or by relying on others instead of trusting in God. This isn't an Obama issue here it's an American issue. Only when America has decided to become dependant on God will God send someone who will listen and promote them into a place of leadership that will work / help. > -- > "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it > tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Tue May 24 01:52:58 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 23:52:58 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> Message-ID: I'm still a bit puzzled as to exactly how DHS or whoever can "shut down the Internet". It worked -- to a limited extent -- for tinpot Arab dictators because their infrastructure is somewhere in the 1950s. What precisely does this bill authorize, and how precisely do the logistics work to carry it out? Suppose the big O says "make it so" and DHS takes the snips to "the Internet". I'm 72.49% sure there's no big box at DHS with a big red button on it you can push to turn off all traffic. There's an old saying that the Internet views censorship as network damage and routes around it. Then when you get into specifically killing traffic critical of the government, you're talking about a much larger enterprise that requires people to read each and every one of the billions of email messages and web pages and twits and analyze them for content in the split-second it takes to get from one point to another, decide which ones should be suppressed, and kill them. And that's not even getting into text messages, youtube videos, etc. etc. etc. Shalom, *PBS* On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > A lot of the traffic CAN be killed because so much is routed here in the > US. This is more about killing ANY and ALL traffic that is contrary to > NOBama's agenda, which is communist. Before the 2008 election, I did a long > extensive investigation of him and his past. It has commie written ALL over > it. 'Walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it most likely is a duck. 8-) > I suspect that Christians and others will have to start using PGP for a lot > of their mail, until we're simply not allowed on the Net. > > Fred > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Tue May 24 01:56:23 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Mon, 23 May 2011 23:56:23 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The nearly aborted president In-Reply-To: <4DDB388A.6080606@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> <4DDB388A.6080606@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: Totally in agreement there. We have the king (president) we deserve just in the same way the Israelites got the king they deserved when they told God they would rather have a human leader than submit to God's leadership. On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:48 PM, usacomputertech < usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com> wrote: > I think it's because too many people are trying to fix things themselves or > by relying on others instead of trusting in God. This isn't an Obama issue > here it's an American issue. Only when America has decided to become > dependant on God will God send someone who will listen and promote them into > a place of leadership that will work / help. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 24 03:01:53 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 00:01:53 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: The nearly aborted president In-Reply-To: References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> <4DDB388A.6080606@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDB57E1.2060809@mindblowingidea.com> Hey you know that's one of the main topics of my book that I'm writing. It's not finished yet but you can read it here: http://www.mindblowingidea.com/Brainwashed.pdf and as you will notice there is no cover picture yet. If anyone can help me with a picture that would be great. I was thinking about having a picture of a man walking down a road with psychiatrists, teachers, pastors, hippies, druggies, Oprah, the president, republicans, democrats, ect. on the sides of the road trying to lure the person off the path so that they can pursue the agenda or supposed truth of these people rather than pursuing the source of the truth. At the end of the road is something that says Truth. On 05/23/2011 10:56 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Totally in agreement there. We have the king (president) we deserve > just in the same way the Israelites got the king they deserved when > they told God they would rather have a human leader than submit to > God's leadership. > > On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:48 PM, usacomputertech > > wrote: > > I think it's because too many people are trying to fix things > themselves or by relying on others instead of trusting in God. > This isn't an Obama issue here it's an American issue. Only when > America has decided to become dependant on God will God send > someone who will listen and promote them into a place of > leadership that will work / help. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue May 24 09:33:32 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 08:33:32 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> It would no doubt be a VERY large accomplishment and I too am puzzled by the feasibility of it; However I would "assume" (yes I know) that they would start by requiring all tier one internet providers to install specific routers that they would in turn have to grant some government agency admin rights. It would probably be much like the CALEA imposed on the communication companies presently. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act When I first learned of CELEA I thought "the people will not stand for this", but was I ever wrong. CALEA was implemented without so much as a "whimper" from the public. The really scarry thing about CELEA is that it effectively bypasses the "do process" of our legal system in my opinion. Taking the courts jurisdiction and replacing by a governing body and that scares me. Works fine as long as honest people are running the show, but what happens when they are not honest? And there are more phases yet to be implemented. Least anyone say I am just a lunatic with access to the internet, let me state that I work for a communications company and I have personally installed CELEA equipment on our network. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/24/2011 12:52 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > I'm still a bit puzzled as to exactly how DHS or whoever can "shut > down the Internet". It worked -- to a limited extent -- for tinpot > Arab dictators because their infrastructure is somewhere in the > 1950s. What precisely does this bill authorize, and how precisely do > the logistics work to carry it out? Suppose the big O says "make it > so" and DHS takes the snips to "the Internet". I'm 72.49% sure there's > no big box at DHS with a big red button on it you can push to turn off > all traffic. There's an old saying that the Internet views censorship > as network damage and routes around it. > > Then when you get into specifically killing traffic critical of the > government, you're talking about a much larger enterprise that > requires people to read each and every one of the billions of email > messages and web pages and twits and analyze them for content in the > split-second it takes to get from one point to another, decide which > ones should be suppressed, and kill them. And that's not even getting > into text messages, youtube videos, etc. etc. etc. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue May 24 10:24:20 2011 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 07:24:20 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDBBF94.1030403@lavabit.com> Exactly. Here's a wikipedia article (please add salt) about the original bill, with relevant outside sources. So, a 'Kill Switch' is exactly what they want, but only scaled back when public opinion hit. And since when do we take cues on governing from China? Oh, wait... On 05/24/2011 06:33 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > It would no doubt be a VERY large accomplishment and I too am puzzled > by the feasibility of it; However I would "assume" (yes I know) that > they would start by requiring all tier one internet providers to > install specific routers that they would in turn have to grant some > government agency admin rights. It would probably be much like the > CALEA imposed on the communication companies presently. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act > > When I first learned of CELEA I thought "the people will not stand for > this", but was I ever wrong. CALEA was implemented without so much as > a "whimper" from the public. The really scarry thing about CELEA is > that it effectively bypasses the "do process" of our legal system in > my opinion. Taking the courts jurisdiction and replacing by a > governing body and that scares me. Works fine as long as honest people > are running the show, but what happens when they are not honest? And > there are more phases yet to be implemented. > > Least anyone say I am just a lunatic with access to the internet, let > me state that I work for a communications company and I have > personally installed CELEA equipment on our network. > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 5/24/2011 12:52 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: >> I'm still a bit puzzled as to exactly how DHS or whoever can "shut >> down the Internet". It worked -- to a limited extent -- for tinpot >> Arab dictators because their infrastructure is somewhere in the >> 1950s. What precisely does this bill authorize, and how precisely do >> the logistics work to carry it out? Suppose the big O says "make it >> so" and DHS takes the snips to "the Internet". I'm 72.49% sure >> there's no big box at DHS with a big red button on it you can push to >> turn off all traffic. There's an old saying that the Internet views >> censorship as network damage and routes around it. >> >> Then when you get into specifically killing traffic critical of the >> government, you're talking about a much larger enterprise that >> requires people to read each and every one of the billions of email >> messages and web pages and twits and analyze them for content in the >> split-second it takes to get from one point to another, decide which >> ones should be suppressed, and kill them. And that's not even >> getting into text messages, youtube videos, etc. etc. etc. >> >> Shalom, >> */PBS/* >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue May 24 10:24:57 2011 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 07:24:57 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDBBF94.1030403@lavabit.com> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> <4DDBBF94.1030403@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4DDBBFB9.7000704@lavabit.com> Oops... https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Kill_switch#Computer_security_policy On 05/24/2011 07:24 AM, Eddy Martin wrote: > Exactly. > Here's a wikipedia article (please add salt) about the original bill, > with relevant outside sources. > So, a 'Kill Switch' is exactly what they want, but only scaled back > when public opinion hit. > > And since when do we take cues on governing from China? > Oh, wait... > > On 05/24/2011 06:33 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> It would no doubt be a VERY large accomplishment and I too am puzzled >> by the feasibility of it; However I would "assume" (yes I know) that >> they would start by requiring all tier one internet providers to >> install specific routers that they would in turn have to grant some >> government agency admin rights. It would probably be much like the >> CALEA imposed on the communication companies presently. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act >> >> When I first learned of CELEA I thought "the people will not stand >> for this", but was I ever wrong. CALEA was implemented without so >> much as a "whimper" from the public. The really scarry thing about >> CELEA is that it effectively bypasses the "do process" of our legal >> system in my opinion. Taking the courts jurisdiction and replacing by >> a governing body and that scares me. Works fine as long as honest >> people are running the show, but what happens when they are not >> honest? And there are more phases yet to be implemented. >> >> Least anyone say I am just a lunatic with access to the internet, let >> me state that I work for a communications company and I have >> personally installed CELEA equipment on our network. >> >> -- >> bstaggs <>< >> >> >> On 5/24/2011 12:52 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: >>> I'm still a bit puzzled as to exactly how DHS or whoever can "shut >>> down the Internet". It worked -- to a limited extent -- for tinpot >>> Arab dictators because their infrastructure is somewhere in the >>> 1950s. What precisely does this bill authorize, and how precisely >>> do the logistics work to carry it out? Suppose the big O says "make >>> it so" and DHS takes the snips to "the Internet". I'm 72.49% sure >>> there's no big box at DHS with a big red button on it you can push >>> to turn off all traffic. There's an old saying that the Internet >>> views censorship as network damage and routes around it. >>> >>> Then when you get into specifically killing traffic critical of the >>> government, you're talking about a much larger enterprise that >>> requires people to read each and every one of the billions of email >>> messages and web pages and twits and analyze them for content in the >>> split-second it takes to get from one point to another, decide which >>> ones should be suppressed, and kill them. And that's not even >>> getting into text messages, youtube videos, etc. etc. etc. >>> >>> Shalom, >>> */PBS/* >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue May 24 10:55:35 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 09:55:35 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDBC6E7.7080302@staggs.net> I just read my own post and I don't think I spelled CALEA the same way twice. :-) It is actually CALEA for "Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act" and to cut through the piles of documents, it essentailly allows a local law enforcment agency (Serif's Office in my case) to have direct access to communcations records (who and when you made or received calls, email, etc.) and eventailly "they" (or a higher ranking law enforment agency) will be able to preform wiretaps and capture electronic communications without the "obligation" of a court order or assistance from the communications companies themselves. Sort of a self policing process... no time for any checks or balances.... Hum? Of course to use any of this in a courtroom they would be required to get a court order after the fact. At least this is my understanding, but there is so much red tape that I seldom get the same answer twice. I think that is by design, that way there aria of plausible deniability about the whole process. -- bstaggs <>< From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 24 15:19:08 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:19:08 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDBBF94.1030403@lavabit.com> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> <4DDBBF94.1030403@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4DDC04AC.6090901@mindblowingidea.com> In order for the government to have any control over the Internet they must control all ISPs, Cell phone providers, ect. They did so with Verizon, Comcast, and some other companies. On 05/24/2011 07:24 AM, Eddy Martin wrote: > Exactly. > Here's a wikipedia article (please add salt) about the original bill, > with relevant outside sources. > So, a 'Kill Switch' is exactly what they want, but only scaled back > when public opinion hit. > > And since when do we take cues on governing from China? > Oh, wait... > > On 05/24/2011 06:33 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> It would no doubt be a VERY large accomplishment and I too am puzzled >> by the feasibility of it; However I would "assume" (yes I know) that >> they would start by requiring all tier one internet providers to >> install specific routers that they would in turn have to grant some >> government agency admin rights. It would probably be much like the >> CALEA imposed on the communication companies presently. >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act >> >> When I first learned of CELEA I thought "the people will not stand >> for this", but was I ever wrong. CALEA was implemented without so >> much as a "whimper" from the public. The really scarry thing about >> CELEA is that it effectively bypasses the "do process" of our legal >> system in my opinion. Taking the courts jurisdiction and replacing by >> a governing body and that scares me. Works fine as long as honest >> people are running the show, but what happens when they are not >> honest? And there are more phases yet to be implemented. >> >> Least anyone say I am just a lunatic with access to the internet, let >> me state that I work for a communications company and I have >> personally installed CELEA equipment on our network. >> >> -- >> bstaggs <>< >> >> >> On 5/24/2011 12:52 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: >>> I'm still a bit puzzled as to exactly how DHS or whoever can "shut >>> down the Internet". It worked -- to a limited extent -- for tinpot >>> Arab dictators because their infrastructure is somewhere in the >>> 1950s. What precisely does this bill authorize, and how precisely >>> do the logistics work to carry it out? Suppose the big O says "make >>> it so" and DHS takes the snips to "the Internet". I'm 72.49% sure >>> there's no big box at DHS with a big red button on it you can push >>> to turn off all traffic. There's an old saying that the Internet >>> views censorship as network damage and routes around it. >>> >>> Then when you get into specifically killing traffic critical of the >>> government, you're talking about a much larger enterprise that >>> requires people to read each and every one of the billions of email >>> messages and web pages and twits and analyze them for content in the >>> split-second it takes to get from one point to another, decide which >>> ones should be suppressed, and kill them. And that's not even >>> getting into text messages, youtube videos, etc. etc. etc. >>> >>> Shalom, >>> */PBS/* >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Tue May 24 15:21:56 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 12:21:56 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] My book In-Reply-To: <4DDB57E1.2060809@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> <4DDB388A.6080606@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB57E1.2060809@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDC0554.1060702@mindblowingidea.com> That's strange I expected tons of comments on my book I'm writing. On 05/24/2011 12:01 AM, usacomputertech wrote: > Hey you know that's one of the main topics of my book that I'm > writing. It's not finished yet but you can read it here: > http://www.mindblowingidea.com/Brainwashed.pdf and as you will notice > there is no cover picture yet. If anyone can help me with a picture > that would be great. > > I was thinking about having a picture of a man walking down a road > with psychiatrists, teachers, pastors, hippies, druggies, Oprah, the > president, republicans, democrats, ect. on the sides of the road > trying to lure the person off the path so that they can pursue the > agenda or supposed truth of these people rather than pursuing the > source of the truth. At the end of the road is something that says Truth. > > On 05/23/2011 10:56 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: >> Totally in agreement there. We have the king (president) we deserve >> just in the same way the Israelites got the king they deserved when >> they told God they would rather have a human leader than submit to >> God's leadership. >> >> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 10:48 PM, usacomputertech >> > > wrote: >> >> I think it's because too many people are trying to fix things >> themselves or by relying on others instead of trusting in God. >> This isn't an Obama issue here it's an American issue. Only when >> America has decided to become dependant on God will God send >> someone who will listen and promote them into a place of >> leadership that will work / help. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > -- > http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec > > > USA COMPUTER TECH > COMPUTER RESCUE > > Justin Breithaupt > (509) 730-5576 > (208) 750-5628 > > e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com > > website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html > > Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ > > More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec > They say that money talks, if so what does it say? > > > > If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar > distro at distrowatch.com > asking him to put JULinux on his site. -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From parrisdc at gmail.com Tue May 24 16:36:17 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 16:36:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DDAAE5A.20805@bibleseven.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDAAE5A.20805@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 14:58, dcolburn at bibleseven.com < dcolburn at bibleseven.com> wrote: > The separation of deacon and elder in the Biblical text is unmistakable, > a deacon is specifically described apart from an elder, and the role and > gifting of a pastor/bishop/shepherd clearly at least 'greatest among peers' > (elders, not deacons). > > It is one of the incomprehensible errors of the Southern Baptist > Conference. > > David, thanks for sharing that - I've always wondered about that point. It was interesting to me that another Baptist pastor (SBC) I met a few years back actually advised me to separate elders and deacons, something that was part of my plan from the beginning. He was offering unsolicited advice, and I just shared that that was my plan all along. In his church, it had created serious debate, but they survived it and have moved forward. Ironically, though, he has the 'elders' managing the administration/physical stuff, and the 'deacons' as spiritual leaders. Even though I feel he got it 'backwards', so to speak, he at least had the sense to bring an end to his participation in what amounted to a monthly business meeting (where they rarely managed to address the spiritual needs of the flock). Anyway, just an interesting anecdote. Blessings, Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue May 24 16:58:57 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 15:58:57 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: New Internet Kill Switch In-Reply-To: <4DDC04AC.6090901@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DDAC949.9070905@lightlink.com> <1306205108.6928.15.camel@P-733-Lin> <4DDB2D14.1030806@lightlink.com> <4DDBB3AC.7020301@staggs.net> <4DDBBF94.1030403@lavabit.com> <4DDC04AC.6090901@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDC1C11.1060003@staggs.net> As I understand it, cell phones and internet traffic would also fall under CALEA. http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/1998/01/9502 From http://www.mobiledia.com/glossary/72.html *Communications Assistance to Law Enforcement Act (CALEA)* - A 1994 law granting law enforcement agencies the ability to wiretap new digital networks and requiring *wireless *and wireline carriers to enable surveillance equipment use in digital networks. From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communications_Assistance_for_Law_Enforcement_Act* CALEA*'s purpose is to enhance the ability of law enforcement and intelligence agencies to conduct electronic surveillance by requiring that telecommunications carriers and manufacturers of telecommunications equipment modify and design their equipment, facilities, and services to ensure that they have built-in surveillance capabilities, *allowing federal agencies to monitor all telephone, broadband internet, and VoIP traffic in real-time*. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/24/2011 2:19 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > In order for the government to have any control over the Internet they > must control all ISPs, Cell phone providers, ect. They did so with > Verizon, Comcast, and some other companies. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue May 24 19:09:39 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 18:09:39 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDAAE5A.20805@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DDC3AB3.7060708@staggs.net> I don't know just how standard it was/is, but in the Assembly of God Church I formerly attended (15+ years) there was a "Board" and "Deacons". In some cases the Deacons were a subset of the Board. The Board was responsible for the physical property, and business related administration, while the Deacons were the spiritual leaders that assisted the Pastor with services, visitation, etc.. The Deacons were held to a higher standard in terms of appointment. Sounds very similar to what you are describing. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/24/2011 3:36 PM, Don Parris wrote: > David, thanks for sharing that - I've always wondered about that > point. It was interesting to me that another Baptist pastor (SBC) I > met a few years back actually advised me to separate elders and > deacons, something that was part of my plan from the beginning. He > was offering unsolicited advice, and I just shared that that was my > plan all along. In his church, it had created serious debate, but > they survived it and have moved forward. > > Ironically, though, he has the 'elders' managing the > administration/physical stuff, and the 'deacons' as spiritual leaders. > Even though I feel he got it 'backwards', so to speak, he at least > had the sense to bring an end to his participation in what amounted to > a monthly business meeting (where they rarely managed to address the > spiritual needs of the flock). > > Anyway, just an interesting anecdote. > > Blessings, > Don > -- > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 24 19:14:24 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 19:14:24 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DDC3AB3.7060708@staggs.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDAAE5A.20805@bibleseven.com> <4DDC3AB3.7060708@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDC3BD0.4070106@bibleseven.com> While it makes sense to link the titles we use in our fellowships to the same titles given in the Biblical text it is not necessary - it just requires an extra step of education. The point is that those who are called and gifted to provide spiritual leadership must be vetted and identified apart from those called and gifted for different - but equally-important - roles in the body. > I don't know just how standard it was/is, but in the Assembly of God > Church I formerly attended (15+ years) there was a "Board" and > "Deacons". In some cases the Deacons were a subset of the Board. > The Board was responsible for the physical property, and business > related administration, while the Deacons were the spiritual leaders > that assisted the Pastor with services, visitation, etc.. The Deacons > were held to a higher standard in terms of appointment. Sounds very > similar to what you are describing. > > -- bstaggs <>< > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 24 21:42:20 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 24 May 2011 21:42:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Proverbs 4 Message-ID: <4DDC5E7C.3070500@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Proverbs 4 Admonition to Follow Righteousness and Avoid Wickedness 4:1 Listen, children, to a father's instruction, and pay attention so that you may gain discernment. 4:2 Because I give you good instruction, do not forsake my teaching. 4:3 When I was a son to my father, a tender only child before my mother, 4:4 he taught me, and he said to me: "Let your heart lay hold of my words; keep my commands so that you will live. 4:5 Acquire wisdom, acquire understanding; do not forget and do not turn aside from the words I speak. 4:6 Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will guard you. 4:7 Wisdom is supreme -- so acquire wisdom, and whatever you acquire, acquire understanding! 4:8 Esteem her highly and she will exalt you; she will honor you if you embrace her. 4:9 She will place a fair garland on your head; she will bestow a beautiful crown on you." 4:10 Listen, my child, and accept my words, so that the years of your life will be many. 4:11 I will guide you in the way of wisdom and I will lead you in upright paths. 4:12 When you walk, your steps will not be hampered, and when you run, you will not stumble. 4:13 Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; protect it, because it is your life. 4:14 Do not enter the path of the wicked or walk in the way of those who are evil. 4:15 Avoid it, do not go on it; turn away from it, and go on. 4:16 For they cannot sleep unless they cause harm; they are robbed of sleep until they make someone stumble. 4:17 For they eat bread gained from wickedness and drink wine obtained from violence. 4:18 But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light, growing brighter and brighter until full day. 4:19 The way of the wicked is like gloomy darkness; they do not know what causes them to stumble. 4:20 My child, pay attention to my words; listen attentively to my sayings. 4:21 Do not let them depart from your sight, guard them within your heart; 4:22 for they are life to those who find them and healing to one's entire body. 4:23 Guard your heart with all vigilance, for from it are the sources of life. 4:24 Remove perverse speech from your mouth; keep devious talk far from your lips. 4:25 Let your eyes look directly in front of you and let your gaze look straight before you. 4:26 Make the path for your feet level, so that all your ways may be established. 4:27 Do not turn to the right or to the left; turn yourself away from evil. Prayer Lord, Your wisdom is beautiful and like a guiding angel. May I seek Your wisdom more than any pretty or valuable thing this imperfect world has to offer. Commentary Solomon again repeated the reason one should value the Proverbs "Listen, children, to a father's instruction, and pay attention so that you may gain discernment. He then gave a human characteristic to wisdom "Do not forsake wisdom, and she will protect you; love her, and she will guard you." He warned that one should obey the leading of wisdom and listed some of the negative paths that one might take if not "Hold on to instruction, do not let it go; protect it, because it is your life. Do not enter the path of the wicked or walk in the way of those who are evil." Then he returned to the positive "... for they are life to those who find them and healing to one's entire body." Solomon closed with a traveling word-picture "Do not turn to the right or to the left; turn yourself away from evil." Interaction Consider Seeking and living according to wisdom is a choice. Discuss Is it because we sometimes respond to the fear of negative consequences and sometimes to the appeal of positive consequences that Solomon uses both? Reflect The traveling word-picture is a reminder of the book 'Pilgrim's Progress'. Share When have you known what wisdom said but chosen another way? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your life where you need to make a more-intentional effort to seek His wisdom and to then follow it. Action: Today I will humbly accept the challenge of the Holy Spirit to submit to His wisdom, I will make the time to study His word which is relevant to that area, I will invite one who is Biblically-qualified as an elder to assist and pray in-agreement with me, and I will allow my walk to be transformed by wisdom. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Proverbs 5 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed May 25 01:56:44 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 01:56:44 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <4DDC3AB3.7060708@staggs.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDAAE5A.20805@bibleseven.com> <4DDC3AB3.7060708@staggs.net> Message-ID: <1306303004.8112.27.camel@P-733-Lin> Parkwood Gospel Tabernacle here PAOC (aka branchplant AOG), has both boards, ostensibly so that one can deal with the physical and the other the spiritual, they're a very large church, with attached school, and they administer a seniors retirement building. But AFAIK, they are the only local church with 2 boards. On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 18:09 -0500, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > I don't know just how standard it was/is, but in the Assembly of God > Church I formerly attended (15+ years) there was a "Board" and > "Deacons". In some cases the Deacons were a subset of the Board. The > Board was responsible for the physical property, and business related > administration, while the Deacons were the spiritual leaders that > assisted the Pastor with services, visitation, etc.. The Deacons were > held to a higher standard in terms of appointment. Sounds very similar > to what you are describing. > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 5/24/2011 3:36 PM, Don Parris wrote: > > David, thanks for sharing that - I've always wondered about that > > point. It was interesting to me that another Baptist pastor (SBC) I > > met a few years back actually advised me to separate elders and > > deacons, something that was part of my plan from the beginning. He > > was offering unsolicited advice, and I just shared that that was my > > plan all along. In his church, it had created serious debate, but > > they survived it and have moved forward. > > > > Ironically, though, he has the 'elders' managing the > > administration/physical stuff, and the 'deacons' as spiritual leaders. > > Even though I feel he got it 'backwards', so to speak, he at least > > had the sense to bring an end to his participation in what amounted to > > a monthly business meeting (where they rarely managed to address the > > spiritual needs of the flock). > > > > Anyway, just an interesting anecdote. > > > > Blessings, > > Don > > -- > > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed May 25 13:33:15 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 13:33:15 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] My book In-Reply-To: <4DDC0554.1060702@mindblowingidea.com> References: <4DDB0A15.6020905@lightlink.com> <4DDB1F05.3030900@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB2D8A.2020005@lightlink.com> <4DDB388A.6080606@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDB57E1.2060809@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDC0554.1060702@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <1306344795.4688.7.camel@P-733-Lin> On Tue, 2011-05-24 at 12:21 -0700, usacomputertech wrote: > That's strange I expected tons of comments on my book I'm writing. I did a very fast scan, I'd suggest a more thorough spell checker. From jonathon.blake at gmail.com Wed May 25 18:18:07 2011 From: jonathon.blake at gmail.com (jonathon) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 22:18:07 +0000 Subject: [Linux4christians] I need some advice. In-Reply-To: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> Message-ID: <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 19/05/2011 21:29, htgage3 wrote: > There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament church: > Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, approved, > appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the church. There are > only two offices, and both are held by men only. Was Paul flat out lying when he stated what the position in the church of the following are: * Theckla; * Phoebe; * Priscilla; * Junia; jonathon - -- All emails sent to this with email address with a precedence other than bulk, or list, are forwarded to Dave Null, unread. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN3YAaAAoJEDqP6lg9AbnKyA8IAJbI8C0z2jGJf6G+SsCJsBql VI28YyYcN9IueGLWF1QDvW6yq08NsrmYEtu7LddM2aw5RyXCPd5F00EpFUG+TItF qtqFtv8jWA2WDgVyg0TsQG/yk9SjSBfVfpwZ2fYuu/Uh96ZvJlvEmpAYeEt9OFcC Twof8UOGdrdox+J6A6z3n2Pie+cCpLd437I0YBPoEM2y3j53ekmeQsx+UqJf0bvB WxdUHw5LWY5JBYQ5MWaDDZEl0MKt39y2pa0Nx1rC7NMZiQm+1HbgSSORIOTRbFS6 lPDQfwPZ1mlLhLRFoq+0GvrqejGKpoJO/QXdtCqi/3P1Bdut5pOwAeTp/6ypgzk= =DsSS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 25 18:42:21 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 18:42:21 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> Please document *all* of the texts which address the topic(s) for which you are making these assertions - so that we may be good Bereans and evaluate your claims. It appears that you are claiming that pastor, bishop, and elder are consistently and exclusively used to refer to a single role. It also appears that you are asserting that the apostle Paul directly identified the listed women using role-positions that indisputably belong to the role from your prior assertion (that pastor, bishop, and elder are identical roles). In the absence of such documentation it is difficult to assess the authoritative Biblical texts from which you draw your conclusions. > > There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament > > church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, > > approved, appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the > > church. There are only two offices, and both are held by men only. > > Was Paul flat out lying when he stated what the position in the > church of the following are: * Theckla; * Phoebe; * Priscilla; * > Junia; > > jonathon - -- > -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From parrisdc at gmail.com Wed May 25 19:53:42 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 19:53:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: David, Jonathon was replying to htgage3. He is clearly challenging htgage3's assertion that only men held the 2 positions of deacon and elder/pastor/bishop. On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 18:42, dcolburn at bibleseven.com < dcolburn at bibleseven.com> wrote: > Please document *all* of the texts which address the topic(s) for > which you are making these assertions - so that we may be good > Bereans and evaluate your claims. > > It appears that you are claiming that pastor, bishop, and elder are > consistently and exclusively used to refer to a single role. > > It also appears that you are asserting that the apostle Paul directly > identified the listed women using role-positions that indisputably > belong to the role from your prior assertion (that pastor, bishop, > and elder are identical roles). > > In the absence of such documentation it is difficult to assess the > authoritative Biblical texts from which you draw your conclusions. > > > There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament >> > church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, >> > approved, appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the >> > church. There are only two offices, and both are held by men only. >> >> Was Paul flat out lying when he stated what the position in the >> church of the following are: * Theckla; * Phoebe; * Priscilla; * >> Junia; >> >> jonathon - -- >> >> > > -- > > Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! > David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 > Defend free speech or lose your freedom. > I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From parrisdc at gmail.com Wed May 25 20:10:23 2011 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 20:10:23 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: According to the SBL Greek New Testament: http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2016&version=SBLGNT The word used to describe Phoebe in Romans 16:1 is effectively 'deacon'. Frankly, that shoots htgage3's comment to smitherines. One can argue the point all you want, but I hate to argue with the original Greek. Either she's a deacon or she ain't, selective translation methodologies aside. If a deacon is a servant, that's fine. But whether the servant is a male or a female, a servant is still a servant, and thus still a deacon. :-) Blessings, Don On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 19:53, Don Parris wrote: > David, > > Jonathon was replying to htgage3. He is clearly challenging htgage3's > assertion that only men held the 2 positions of deacon and > elder/pastor/bishop. > > > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 18:42, dcolburn at bibleseven.com < > dcolburn at bibleseven.com> wrote: > >> Please document *all* of the texts which address the topic(s) for >> which you are making these assertions - so that we may be good >> Bereans and evaluate your claims. >> >> It appears that you are claiming that pastor, bishop, and elder are >> consistently and exclusively used to refer to a single role. >> >> It also appears that you are asserting that the apostle Paul directly >> identified the listed women using role-positions that indisputably >> belong to the role from your prior assertion (that pastor, bishop, >> and elder are identical roles). >> >> In the absence of such documentation it is difficult to assess the >> authoritative Biblical texts from which you draw your conclusions. >> >> > There are only two offices in the local, visible New Testament >>> > church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, called by God; Deacon, >>> > approved, appointed, which ever way you want to use it, by the >>> > church. There are only two offices, and both are held by men only. >>> >>> Was Paul flat out lying when he stated what the position in the >>> church of the following are: * Theckla; * Phoebe; * Priscilla; * >>> Junia; >>> >>> jonathon - -- >>> >>> >> >> -- >> >> Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, >> Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! >> David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com >> Bible Resources: http://bible.org >> Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 >> Defend free speech or lose your freedom. >> I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> > > > > -- > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > > -- D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris GPG Key ID: F5E179BE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Wed May 25 22:08:32 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 22:08:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Proverbs 5 Message-ID: <4DDDB620.7070909@bibleseven.com> Thursday Proverbs 5 Admonition to Avoid Seduction to Evil 5:1 My child, be attentive to my wisdom, pay close attention to my understanding, 5:2 in order to safeguard discretion, and that your lips may guard knowledge. 5:3 For the lips of the adulterous woman drip honey, and her seductive words are smoother than olive oil, 5:4 but in the end she is bitter as wormwood, sharp as a two-edged sword. 5:5 Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave. 5:6 Lest she should make level the path leading to life, her paths are unstable but she does not know it. 5:7 So now, children, listen to me; do not turn aside from the words I speak. 5:8 Keep yourself far from her, and do not go near the door of her house, 5:9 lest you give your vigor to others and your years to a cruel person, 5:10 lest strangers devour your strength, and your labor benefit another man's house. 5:11 And at the end of your life you will groan when your flesh and your body are wasted away. 5:12 And you will say, "How I hated discipline! My heart spurned reproof! 5:13 For I did not obey my teachers and I did not heed my instructors. 5:14 I almost came to complete ruin in the midst of the whole congregation!" 5:15 Drink water from your own cistern and running water from your own well. 5:16 Should your springs be dispersed outside, your streams of water in the wide plazas? 5:17 Let them be for yourself alone, and not for strangers with you. 5:18 May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in your young wife -- 5:19 a loving doe, a graceful deer; may her breasts satisfy you at all times, may you be captivated by her love always. 5:20 But why should you be captivated, my son, by an adulteress, and embrace the bosom of a different woman? 5:21 For the ways of a person are in front of the Lord's eyes, and the Lord weighs all that person's paths. 5:22 The wicked will be captured by his own iniquities, and he will be held by the cords of his own sin. 5:23 He will die because there was no discipline; because of the greatness of his folly he will reel. Prayer Lord, You are the beauty of perfect righteousness and everything else is something less. May I always seek after Your righteousness rather than testing the boundaries of sin. Commentary Solomon used the word-picture of an seductive and adulterous woman to warn of the temptation of sin. His point was that sin does not always look ugly, though it is, and it does not always feel bad -- at first -- but it is destructive. He postulated that once one allowed oneself near to sin it was common to be drawn in, so to not even go near. He also postulated that once one was ensnared by sin that ones life could be consumed by it, ending sadly as one reflected upon a wasted life. He concluded with a word-picture of the attractiveness of ones young wife, that one should remain faithful and nurture affection for her; this as an illustration of the way one should think of wisdom -- which he had previously conceptualized as "she". Interaction Consider The enemy is like a seductive adulteress, or a seductive adulterer, pretending to care and 'costumed' to appeal to your fantasies -- but in the end he/she/it is like poison. Discuss How could Solomon have been so clear in the wisdom of the Lord God yet done precisely what he knew and taught was wrong? Reflect A healthy relationship with the Lord God is like a healthy relationship with a mate, it requires commitment, investment, and a right-perspective -- all are choices that must be made and kept daily. Share When have you been tested by the temptation of a sin and discovered that you has allowed yourself where you should not be and that it was then difficult to break away? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where you have been allowing yourself to drift where you might be more-easily tempted by sin. It may be about adultery, money, power, food, sloth, etc. Action: Today I will confess and repent, request and accept the Lord's forgiveness, then alter my ways to keep myself far from the threshold of sin. I will ask a fellow believer to be my accountability partner and to pray in-agreement with me. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Proverbs 6 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed May 25 22:47:20 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 22:47:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: CEO Ballmer (mis)speaks, Microsoft HQ clarifies | ZDNet Message-ID: <4DDDBF38.9030309@lightlink.com> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/ceo-ballmer-misspeaks-microsoft-hq-clarifies/12945?tag=nl.e539 -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okie2003 at gmail.com Wed May 25 22:52:07 2011 From: okie2003 at gmail.com (Rob Matlack) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 21:52:07 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <1306378327.2422.29.camel@rob-E6510> I really don't have a dog in this fight, but if it is really that simple to decide do all the people in these passages hold that office in the church: Mat. 20:26; 22:13; 23:11; John 2:5; 1 Cor. 3:5, etc. (you get the point) and especially Romans 13:4 (2x)? They ARE all the same Greek word. The truth is it is not all that simple and scholars debate it. BTW, we have recognized deaconesses in our church. But then the question is what does that mean. Is their role the same as a male deacon? Other passages must guide us, not just a Greek word that has a semantic range. My thots, YMMV. Rob On Wed, 2011-05-25 at 20:10 -0400, Don Parris wrote: > According to the SBL Greek New Testament: > http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2016&version=SBLGNT > > > The word used to describe Phoebe in Romans 16:1 is effectively > 'deacon'. Frankly, that shoots htgage3's comment to smitherines. One > can argue the point all you want, but I hate to argue with the > original Greek. Either she's a deacon or she ain't, selective > translation methodologies aside. > > > If a deacon is a servant, that's fine. But whether the servant is a > male or a female, a servant is still a servant, and thus still a > deacon. > > > :-) > > > Blessings, > Don > > > > > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 19:53, Don Parris wrote: > David, > > > Jonathon was replying to htgage3. He is clearly challenging > htgage3's assertion that only men held the 2 positions of > deacon and elder/pastor/bishop. > > > > On Wed, May 25, 2011 at 18:42, dcolburn at bibleseven.com > wrote: > Please document *all* of the texts which address the > topic(s) for > which you are making these assertions - so that we may > be good > Bereans and evaluate your claims. > > It appears that you are claiming that pastor, bishop, > and elder are > consistently and exclusively used to refer to a single > role. > > It also appears that you are asserting that the > apostle Paul directly > identified the listed women using role-positions that > indisputably > belong to the role from your prior assertion (that > pastor, bishop, > and elder are identical roles). > > In the absence of such documentation it is difficult > to assess the > authoritative Biblical texts from which you draw your > conclusions. > > > There are only two offices in the local, > visible New Testament > > church: Pastor, also called bishop, elder, > called by God; Deacon, > > approved, appointed, which ever way you want > to use it, by the > > church. There are only two offices, and both > are held by men only. > > Was Paul flat out lying when he stated what > the position in the > church of the following are: * Theckla; * > Phoebe; * Priscilla; * > Junia; > > jonathon - -- > > > > -- > > Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! > David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 > Defend free speech or lose your freedom. > I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > > > -- > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > > > > > > -- > D.C. Parris, FMP, LEED AP O+M, ESL Certificate > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris | > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > GPG Key ID: F5E179BE > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed May 25 23:06:25 2011 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 23:06:25 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Mac malware authors release a new, more dangerous version Message-ID: <4DDDC3B1.7030501@lightlink.com> Mac malware authors release a new, more dangerous version Apple finally responded to the Mac Defender outbreak, with a technical note containing removal instructions and the promise of a removal tool. Within hours, the bad guys had released a new version... READ MORE -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonathon.blake at gmail.com Thu May 26 01:31:34 2011 From: jonathon.blake at gmail.com (jonathon) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 05:31:34 +0000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 25/05/2011 22:42, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > It appears that you are claiming that pastor, bishop, and elder are > consistently and exclusively used to refer to a single role. I wasn't making that assertion. > It also appears that you are asserting that the apostle Paul directly > identified the listed women using role-positions that indisputably > belong to the role from your prior assertion (that pastor, bishop, > and elder are identical roles). I was asserting that Paul called Phoebe, Theckla, Junia, and Priscilla deacon, apostle, apostle, and elder, respectively. Documentation can be found in Romans, and Acts of Paul. jonathon - -- All emails sent to this with email address with a precedence other than bulk, or list, are forwarded to Dave Null, unread. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN3eWwAAoJEDqP6lg9AbnKOuMIAMHUM45Nw6/TVVr4rUu7dxry 39aygEH38MGF4F+uEW6hYhIHJpQUtpjUmjP5SJEy0WtnmSDjFeCfx673FldLjLfx 10usgcd2fWvBP64Pn1S6dIAgkECE2lhrm+eZ//+JvD6ZmWvGzrLyONs+HEyUTBtQ 2mj1tgj4YwA9d9+9uR6qyT9NqIgGJUgog1JMYO6zpZDf4Nt/BPzE5913eqNpHhH5 uMZsgQAbgDZjnGXWQLL3vivekImVZfBa3XPo3OEMgVvjmkVcKBfQLKBWdWja4LLA +gthQQwdbglPs+YbIN4uiImUkQfyHMji92dNrtRLUDLYW0Ok8wr2mzslMFpHHuk= =UOIC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 26 02:26:54 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Wed, 25 May 2011 23:26:54 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before Matthew 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. Why are we fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning titles or being used by God? On 05/25/2011 10:31 PM, jonathon wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > > On 25/05/2011 22:42, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> It appears that you are claiming that pastor, bishop, and elder are >> consistently and exclusively used to refer to a single role. > I wasn't making that assertion. > >> It also appears that you are asserting that the apostle Paul directly >> identified the listed women using role-positions that indisputably >> belong to the role from your prior assertion (that pastor, bishop, >> and elder are identical roles). > I was asserting that Paul called Phoebe, Theckla, Junia, and Priscilla > deacon, apostle, apostle, and elder, respectively. > > Documentation can be found in Romans, and Acts of Paul. > > jonathon > - -- > All emails sent to this with email address with a precedence other than > bulk, or list, are forwarded to Dave Null, unread. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ > > iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJN3eWwAAoJEDqP6lg9AbnKOuMIAMHUM45Nw6/TVVr4rUu7dxry > 39aygEH38MGF4F+uEW6hYhIHJpQUtpjUmjP5SJEy0WtnmSDjFeCfx673FldLjLfx > 10usgcd2fWvBP64Pn1S6dIAgkECE2lhrm+eZ//+JvD6ZmWvGzrLyONs+HEyUTBtQ > 2mj1tgj4YwA9d9+9uR6qyT9NqIgGJUgog1JMYO6zpZDf4Nt/BPzE5913eqNpHhH5 > uMZsgQAbgDZjnGXWQLL3vivekImVZfBa3XPo3OEMgVvjmkVcKBfQLKBWdWja4LLA > +gthQQwdbglPs+YbIN4uiImUkQfyHMji92dNrtRLUDLYW0Ok8wr2mzslMFpHHuk= > =UOIC > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec Watch My Youtube Videos USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 26 09:50:45 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 09:50:45 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDE5AB5.3070005@bibleseven.com> Because God clearly says in His Word that fallen-humankind *require* a sociological 'container', else they quickly descend into anarchy - where evil always prevails. > usacomputertech wrote: > Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before > Matthew 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. > Why are we fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning > titles or being used by God? -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Thu May 26 10:26:21 2011 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 08:26:21 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: Hey! Quit applying common sense and get back to righteous indignation! On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:26 AM, usacomputertech < usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com> wrote: > Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before Matthew > 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. Why are we > fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning titles or being used > by God? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 26 12:53:53 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 12:53:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDE85A1.1080003@bibleseven.com> Righteousness is *supposed* to be indignant with unrighteousness. God says so. Do you disagree with God? Sigh. > Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Hey! Quit applying common sense and get back to righteous > indignation! > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:26 AM, usacomputertech > > wrote: > > Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before > Matthew 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. > Why are we fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning > titles or being used by God? -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com Thu May 26 14:18:58 2011 From: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com (usacomputertech) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 11:18:58 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDE5AB5.3070005@bibleseven.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDE5AB5.3070005@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4DDE9992.1020208@mindblowingidea.com> But there wasn't anarchy until after Samuel allowed the people to designate a king. On 05/26/2011 06:50 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Because God clearly says in His Word that fallen-humankind > *require* a sociological 'container', else they quickly descend > into anarchy - where evil always prevails. > > > usacomputertech wrote: >> Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before >> Matthew 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. >> Why are we fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning >> titles or being used by God? > > -- http://www.youtube.com/user/usacomputertec USA COMPUTER TECH COMPUTER RESCUE Justin Breithaupt (509) 730-5576 (208) 750-5628 e-mail: usacomputertech at mindblowingidea.com website: www.mindblowingidea.com/ComputerRescue.html Support Forum: http://justuselinux.iboards.us/ More About Me: http://www.google.com/profiles/usacomputertec They say that money talks, if so what does it say? IN GOD WE TRUST If your a fan of JULinux Please send an e-mail to Ladislav Bodnar distro at distrowatch.com asking him to put JULinux on his site. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: in_god_we_trust.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 16087 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu May 26 14:40:22 2011 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 13:40:22 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDE9992.1020208@mindblowingidea.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDE5AB5.3070005@bibleseven.com> <4DDE9992.1020208@mindblowingidea.com> Message-ID: <4DDE9E96.3000200@staggs.net> Not sure I would totally agree that anarchy began with the Saul's appointment. Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth. -- bstaggs <>< On 5/26/2011 1:18 PM, usacomputertech wrote: > But there wasn't anarchy until after Samuel allowed the people to > designate a king. > > On 05/26/2011 06:50 AM, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: >> Because God clearly says in His Word that fallen-humankind >> *require* a sociological 'container', else they quickly descend >> into anarchy - where evil always prevails. >> >> > usacomputertech wrote: >>> Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before >>> Matthew 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. >>> Why are we fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning >>> titles or being used by God > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 26 15:19:52 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 15:19:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDE9E96.3000200@staggs.net> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDE5AB5.3070005@bibleseven.com> <4DDE9992.1020208@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDE9E96.3000200@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4DDEA7D8.6020709@bibleseven.com> Anarchy began with rebellion in the Garden, was first expressed outside of the Garden when Cain murdered Abel, and has loomed as a threat to safety ever since. BTW: It is interesting that it was descendants of Cain who appear to have created the first "city". > Not sure I would totally agree that anarchy began with the Saul's > appointment. > > Genesis 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come > before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, > behold, I will destroy them with the earth. > > -- bstaggs <>< -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Thu May 26 23:47:41 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 26 May 2011 23:47:41 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Proverbs 6 Message-ID: <4DDF1EDD.8010106@bibleseven.com> Friday Proverbs 6 Admonitions and Warnings against Dangerous and Destructive Acts 6:1 My child, if you have made a pledge for your neighbor, and have become a guarantor for a stranger, 6:2 if you have been ensnared by the words you have uttered, and have been caught by the words you have spoken, 6:3 then, my child, do this in order to deliver yourself, because you have fallen into your neighbor's power: go, humble yourself, and appeal firmly to your neighbor. 6:4 Permit no sleep to your eyes or slumber to your eyelids. 6:5 Deliver yourself like a gazelle from a snare, and like a bird from the trap of the fowler. 6:6 Go to the ant, you sluggard; observe its ways and be wise! 6:7 It has no commander, overseer, or ruler, 6:8 yet it prepares its food in the summer; it gathers at the harvest what it will eat. 6:9 How long, you sluggard, will you lie there? When will you rise from your sleep? 6:10 A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to relax, 6:11 and your poverty will come like a robber, and your need like an armed man. 6:12 A worthless and wicked person walks around saying perverse things; 6:13 he winks with his eyes, signals with his feet, and points with his fingers; 6:14 he plots evil with perverse thoughts in his heart, he spreads contention at all times. 6:15 Therefore, his disaster will come suddenly; in an instant he will be broken, and there will be no remedy. 6:16 There are six things that the Lord hates, even seven things that are an abomination to him: 6:17 haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, 6:18 a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that are swift to run to evil, 6:19 a false witness who pours out lies, and a person who spreads discord among family members. 6:20 My child, guard the commands of your father and do not forsake the instruction of your mother. 6:21 Bind them on your heart continually; fasten them around your neck. 6:22 When you walk about, they will guide you; when you lie down, they will watch over you; when you wake up, they will talk to you. 6:23 For the commandments are like a lamp, instruction is like a light, and rebukes of discipline are like the road leading to life, 6:24 by keeping you from the evil woman, from the smooth tongue of the loose woman. 6:25 Do not lust in your heart for her beauty, and do not let her captivate you with her alluring eyes; 6:26 for on account of a prostitute one is brought down to a loaf of bread, but the wife of another man preys on your precious life. 6:27 Can a man hold fire against his chest without burning his clothes? 6:28 Can a man walk on hot coals without scorching his feet? 6:29 So it is with the one who has sex with his neighbor's wife; no one who touches her will escape punishment. 6:30 People do not despise a thief when he steals to fulfill his need when he is hungry. 6:31 Yet if he is caught he must repay seven times over, he might even have to give all the wealth of his house. 6:32 A man who commits adultery with a woman lacks wisdom, whoever does it destroys his own life. 6:33 He will be beaten and despised, and his reproach will not be wiped away; 6:34 for jealousy kindles a husband's rage, and he will not show mercy when he takes revenge. 6:35 He will not consider any compensation; he will not be willing, even if you multiply the compensation. Prayer Lord, You are the Righteous One, all sin offends You. May I learn from the wisdom You shared with Solomon and pursue righteousness rather than the destructive and temporary sinful pleasures of the world. Commentary Solomon began with an instruction to break-free of obligations which indebted one to a neighbor who did not honor the Lord God. He then moved on to challenge the "sluggard" to earn their way or be left without. Solomon then shared a list of destructive character defects and behaviors: "Haughty eyes" -- an unteachable, proud, and superior attitude. "A lying tongue" "Hands that shed innocent blood" -- murder is for personal gain, incl. abortion "A heart that devises wicked plans" "Feet that are swift to run to evil" -- people who always live at the edge of sin "A false witness who pours out lies" "A person who spreads discord among family members." Solomon's illustrated using common imagery; "... commandments are like a lamp, instruction is like a light, and rebukes of discipline are like the road leading to life ..." Solomon concluded with two negative illustrations, adultery and thievery. He shows how adultery violates two homes, and everyone in them, and may generate a rage in the uninvolved spouse(s) that leads to destruction. He also showed how people may have compassion for a person who steals to feed his/her starving family yet the law -- upon which civilization is dependent -- would still require the thief to pay dearly if caught. Interaction Consider Obligations to non-believers are not merely financial and can be the 'tail that wags the dog' of ones life. It is important to "count the cost" of associations, commitments, and debts of any sort prior to making them -- and to endeavor to escape them if already made. Discuss Why would Solomon have committed so many sins when he so clearly understood and communicated the wisdom of the Lord God? Reflect All of the sins described involved a selfish heart-condition. Share When have you avoided trouble because you were reminded by the Holy Spirit of Solomon's warnings in Proverbs? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your walk where you would benefit from the application of Solomon's God-inspired wisdom to your choices. Action: Today I will humbly and prayerfully reflect upon a day and a week in my life and look for moments and patterns of choices which may reveal a conflict with the wisdom of this Psalm. I will confess and repent, request and receive the Lord's forgiveness, and immediately act to alter my ways to stop the unrighteous choices. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Proverbs 7 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Fri May 27 00:36:52 2011 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 00:36:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Biblical Leadership Roles [Was: I need some advice.] In-Reply-To: <4DDE85A1.1080003@bibleseven.com> References: <175dcbdf.b9577.1300a2982ff.Webtop.47@chartermi.net> <4DDD801F.8080108@gmail.com> <4DDD85CD.5070100@bibleseven.com> <4DDDE5B6.5040809@gmail.com> <4DDDF2AE.6010707@mindblowingidea.com> <4DDE85A1.1080003@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <1306471012.7075.1.camel@P-733-Lin> Funnily enough, I got the joke, there are times when we get a bit too tense in certain discussions, and rather than participate I'll just sit back and quick audit what's said. On Thu, 2011-05-26 at 12:53 -0400, dcolburn at bibleseven.com wrote: > Righteousness is *supposed* to be indignant with unrighteousness. > > God says so. > > Do you disagree with God? > > Sigh. > > > Peter B. Steiger wrote: > > Hey! Quit applying common sense and get back to righteous > > indignation! > > > > On Thu, May 26, 2011 at 12:26 AM, usacomputertech > > > > wrote: > > > > Ok. I have to ask why is all this so important? Like I said before > > Matthew 23 says to call each other brother / sister and forget it. > > Why are we fretting over titles? Do we really care about earning > > titles or being used by God? > From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Fri May 27 20:37:27 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 27 May 2011 20:37:27 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Proverbs 7 Message-ID: <4DE043C7.2030201@bibleseven.com> Saturday Proverbs 7 Admonition to Avoid the Wiles of the Adulteress 7:1 My child, keep my words and treasure up my commands in your own keeping. 7:2 Keep my commands so that you may live, and obey my instruction as your most prized possession. 7:3 Bind them on your forearm; write them on the tablet of your heart. 7:4 Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call understanding a close relative, 7:5 so that they may keep you from the adulterous woman, from the loose woman who flatters you with her words. 7:6 For at the window of my house through my window lattice I looked out 7:7 and I saw among the naive -- I discerned among the youths -- a young man who lacked wisdom. 7:8 He was passing by the street near her corner, making his way along the road to her house 7:9 in the twilight, the evening, in the dark of the night. 7:10 Suddenly a woman came out to meet him! She was dressed like a prostitute and with secret intent. 7:11 (She is loud and rebellious, she does not remain at home -- 7:12 at one time outside, at another in the wide plazas, and by every corner she lies in wait.) 7:13 So she grabbed him and kissed him, and with a bold expression she said to him, 7:14 "I have fresh meat at home; today I have fulfilled my vows! 7:15 That is why I came out to meet you, to look for you, and I found you! 7:16 I have spread my bed with elegant coverings, with richly colored fabric from Egypt. 7:17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon. 7:18 Come, let's drink deeply of lovemaking until morning, let's delight ourselves with sexual intercourse. 7:19 For my husband is not at home; he has gone on a journey of some distance. 7:20 He has taken a bag of money with him; he will not return until the end of the month." 7:21 She persuaded him with persuasive words; with her smooth talk she compelled him. 7:22 Suddenly he went after her like an ox that goes to the slaughter, like a stag prancing into a trapper's snare 7:23 till an arrow pierces his liver -- like a bird hurrying into a trap, and he does not know that it will cost him his life. 7:24 So now, sons, listen to me, and pay attention to the words I speak. 7:25 Do not let your heart turn aside to her ways -- do not wander into her pathways; 7:26 for she has brought down many fatally wounded, and all those she has slain are many. 7:27 Her house is the way to the grave, going down to the chambers of death. Prayer Lord, You have used every example and illustration to teach us, but our flesh is both weak as to the ease of temptation and strong in resistance to move toward righteousness. May I "bind" Your wisdom "on my forearm" - keep it close and visible -- so that I will make the choices You desire for me to make. Commentary Solomon began with a reminder of the importance of wisdom "My child, keep my words and treasure up my commands in your own keeping. Keep my commands so that you may live, and obey my instruction as your most prized possession. Bind them on your forearm; write them on the tablet of your heart. Say to wisdom, "You are my sister," and call understanding a close relative, so that they may keep you from ..." What he wanted fellow children of the Lord God to be "kept ... from" was sin. Solomon continued with his illustration of temptation to sin via the word-picture of an adulteress and a young man. He tells the story of the many ways that she appealed to his flesh and made excuses to overcome his objections. He concluded that once one begins along the path of the unrighteous it becomes more difficult to resist and that the end of such a path is death to ones relationship with the Lord God. Interaction Consider Both wisdom and foolishness (surrendering to worldly temptations) are illustrated using feminine word-pictures, thus demonstrating the Lord God's high-view of women. Discuss Would teaching through stories be as effective today? Reflect The young man had to choose to fail the 'test' by going where he should not and then choose not to flee the temptress; thus he made his own temptation possible. Share When have you failed the test by knowingly remaining where you knew you'd be tempted? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where you fail the test by repeatedly placing yourself in a situation where you know that you are vulnerable to temptation. Action: Today I will confess and repent, request and receive the Lord God's forgiveness, and then act to prevent a test from becoming a temptation. I will ask one who is Biblically-qualified as an "elder" to hold me accountable and to pray in-agreement with me. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Proverbs 8 - 9 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sat May 28 22:59:27 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 22:59:27 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Proverbs 8 - 9 Message-ID: <4DE1B68F.10708@bibleseven.com> Sunday Proverbs 8 - 9 The Appeal of Wisdom 8:1 Does not wisdom call out? Does not understanding raise her voice? 8:2 At the top of the elevated places along the way, at the intersection of the paths she takes her stand; 8:3 beside the gates opening into the city, at the entrance of the doorways she cries out: 8:4 "To you, O people, I call out, and my voice calls to all mankind. 8:5 You who are naive, discern wisdom! And you fools, understand discernment! 8:6 Listen, for I will speak excellent things, and my lips will utter what is right. 8:7 For my mouth speaks truth, and my lips hate wickedness. 8:8 All the words of my mouth are righteous; there is nothing in them twisted or crooked. 8:9 All of them are clear to the discerning and upright to those who find knowledge. 8:10 Receive my instruction rather than silver, and knowledge rather than choice gold. 8:11 For wisdom is better than rubies, and desirable things cannot be compared to her. 8:12 "I, wisdom, live with prudence, and I find knowledge and discretion. 8:13 The fear of the Lord is to hate evil; I hate arrogant pride and the evil way and perverse utterances. 8:14 Counsel and sound wisdom belong to me; I possess understanding and might. 8:15 Kings reign by means of me, and potentates decree righteousness; 8:16 by me princes rule, as well as nobles and all righteous judges. 8:17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me. 8:18 Riches and honor are with me, long-lasting wealth and righteousness. 8:19 My fruit is better than the purest gold, and what I produce is better than choice silver. 8:20 I walk in the path of righteousness, in the pathway of justice, 8:21 that I may cause those who love me to inherit wealth, and that I may fill their treasuries. 8:22 The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. 8:23 From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed. 8:24 When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water; 8:25 before the mountains were set in place -- before the hills -- I was born, 8:26 before he made the earth and its fields, or the beginning of the dust of the world. 8:27 When he established the heavens, I was there; when he marked out the horizon over the face of the deep, 8:28 when he established the clouds above, when the fountains of the deep grew strong, 8:29 when he gave the sea his decree that the waters should not pass over his command, when he marked out the foundations of the earth, 8:30 then I was beside him as a master craftsman, and I was his delight day by day, rejoicing before him at all times, 8:31 rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth, and delighting in its people. 8:32 "So now, children, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. 8:33 Listen to my instruction so that you may be wise, and do not neglect it. 8:34 Blessed is the one who listens to me, watching at my doors day by day, waiting beside my doorway. 8:35 For the one who finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord. 8:36 But the one who does not find me brings harm to himself; all who hate me love death." The Consequences of Accepting Wisdom or Folly 9:1 Wisdom has built her house; she has carved out its seven pillars. 9:2 She has prepared her meat, she has mixed her wine; she also has arranged her table. 9:3 She has sent out her female servants; she calls out on the highest places of the city. 9:4 "Whoever is naive, let him turn in here," she says to those who lack understanding. 9:5 "Come, eat some of my food, and drink some of the wine I have mixed. 9:6 Abandon your foolish ways so that you may live, and proceed in the way of understanding." 9:7 Whoever corrects a mocker is asking for insult; whoever reproves a wicked person receives abuse. 9:8 Do not reprove a mocker or he will hate you; reprove a wise person and he will love you. 9:9 Give instruction to a wise person, and he will become wiser still; teach a righteous person and he will add to his learning. 9:10 The beginning of wisdom is to fear the Lord, and acknowledging the Holy One is understanding. 9:11 For because of me your days will be many, and years will be added to your life. 9:12 If you are wise, you are wise to your own advantage, but if you are a mocker, you alone must bear it. 9:13 The woman called Folly is brash, she is naive and does not know anything. 9:14 So she sits at the door of her house, on a seat at the highest point of the city, 9:15 calling out to those who are passing by her in the way, who go straight on their way. 9:16 "Whoever is simple, let him turn in here," she says to those who lack understanding. 9:17 "Stolen waters are sweet, and food obtained in secret is pleasant!" 9:18 But they do not realize that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of the grave. Prayer Lord, Your wisdom has a long history -- embedded in everything that You have done is perfect wisdom. May I seek the peace and safety of Your wisdom so that I am not seduced by the crass, shallow, and temporary temptations of folly. Commentary Solomon began with a proclamation from the personified-wisdom "To you, O people, I call out, and my voice calls to all mankind ... Listen, for I will speak excellent things, and my lips will utter what is right ... All of them are clear to the discerning and upright to those who find knowledge ... wisdom is better than rubies, and desirable things cannot be compared to her." He quoted wisdom "The Lord created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago. From eternity I was appointed, from the beginning, from before the world existed." He continued with the pleas of wisdom "So now, children, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. Listen to my instruction so that you may be wise, and do not neglect it. Blessed is the one who listens to me, watching at my doors day by day, waiting beside my doorway. For the one who finds me finds life and receives favor from the Lord." And a final warning "But the one who does not find me brings harm to himself; all who hate me love death." Solomon then contrasted the personified characters Wisdom and Folly. He began with a description of Wisdom "Wisdom has built her house; she has carved out its seven pillars. She has prepared her meat, she has mixed her wine; she also has arranged her table." and once thoughtfully-prepared she sends out invitations. Then he contrasted the approach of Wisdom to people with different 'hearts' "Do not reprove a mocker or he will hate you; reprove a wise person and he will love you. Give instruction to a wise person, and he will become wiser still; teach a righteous person and he will add to his learning." Solomon then described Folly "The woman called Folly is brash, she is naive and does not know anything. So she sits at the door of her house, on a seat at the highest point of the city, calling out to those who are passing by her in the way ..." He presents her clearly as shallow and crass ""Whoever is simple, let him turn in here," she says to those who lack understanding. "Stolen waters are sweet, and food obtained in secret is pleasant!"" And his conclusion of the consequences of trusting Folly "But they do not realize that the dead are there, that her guests are in the depths of the grave." Interaction Consider Wisdom was created by the Lord God, of course not for Himself, but for His creation. Discuss Does Solomon's use of personified characters and common images help make clear his teaching? Reflect The choice we make between wisdom and folly is a reflection of the condition of our hearts. Share When have you observed the different responses to wisdom from a wise person and a mocker? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where He wants to add to your wisdom, a place where your pride may be leading you to resist. Action: Today I will prayerfully reflect upon my past week to discern the wisdom that the Holy Spirit desires to inject into my life. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Proverbs 10 - 11 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Sun May 29 20:41:03 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 20:41:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Proverbs 10 - 11 Message-ID: <4DE2E79F.9050203@bibleseven.com> Monday Proverbs 10 - 11 The First Collection of Solomonic Proverbs 10:1 The Proverbs of Solomon: A wise child makes a father rejoice, but a foolish child is a grief to his mother. 10:2 Treasures gained by wickedness do not profit, but righteousness delivers from mortal danger. 10:3 The Lord satisfies the appetite of the righteous, but he thwarts the craving of the wicked. 10:4 The one who is lazy becomes poor, but the one who works diligently becomes wealthy. 10:5 The one who gathers crops in the summer is a wise son, but the one who sleeps during the harvest is a son who brings shame to himself. 10:6 Blessings are on the head of the righteous, but the speech of the wicked conceals violence. 10:7 The memory of the righteous is a blessing, but the reputation of the wicked will rot. 10:8 The wise person accepts instructions, but the one who speaks foolishness will come to ruin. 10:9 The one who conducts himself in integrity will live securely, but the one who behaves perversely will be found out. 10:10 The one who winks his eye causes trouble, and the one who speaks foolishness will come to ruin. 10:11 The teaching of the righteous is a fountain of life, but the speech of the wicked conceals violence. 10:12 Hatred stirs up dissension, but love covers all transgressions. 10:13 Wisdom is found in the words of the discerning person, but the one who lacks wisdom will be disciplined. 10:14 Those who are wise store up knowledge, but foolish speech leads to imminent destruction. 10:15 The wealth of a rich person is like a fortified city, but the poor are brought to ruin by their poverty. 10:16 The reward which the righteous receive is life; the recompense which the wicked receive is judgment. 10:17 The one who heeds instruction is on the way to life, but the one who rejects rebuke goes astray. 10:18 The one who conceals hatred utters lies, and the one who spreads slander is certainly a fool. 10:19 When words abound, transgression is inevitable, but the one who restrains his words is wise. 10:20 What the righteous say is like the best silver, but what the wicked think is of little value. 10:21 The teaching of the righteous feeds many, but fools die for lack of wisdom. 10:22 The blessing from the Lord makes a person rich, and he adds no sorrow to it. 10:23 Carrying out a wicked scheme is enjoyable to a fool, and so is wisdom for the one who has discernment. 10:24 What the wicked fears will come on him; what the righteous desire will be granted. 10:25 When the storm passes through, the wicked are swept away, but the righteous are an everlasting foundation. 10:26 Like vinegar to the teeth and like smoke to the eyes, so is the sluggard to those who send him. 10:27 Fearing the Lord prolongs life, but the life span of the wicked will be shortened. 10:28 The hope of the righteous is joy, but the expectation of the wicked will remain unfulfilled. 10:29 The way of the Lord is like a stronghold for the upright, but it is destruction to evildoers. 10:30 The righteous will never be moved, but the wicked will not inhabit the land. 10:31 The speech of the righteous bears the fruit of wisdom, but the one who speaks perversion will be destroyed. 10:32 The lips of the righteous know what is pleasing, but the speech of the wicked is perverse. 11:1 The Lord abhors dishonest scales, but an accurate weight is his delight. 11:2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. 11:3 The integrity of the upright guides them, but the crookedness of the unfaithful destroys them. 11:4 Wealth does not profit in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from mortal danger. 11:5 The righteousness of the blameless will make straight their way, but the wicked person will fall by his own wickedness. 11:6 The righteousness of the upright will deliver them, but the faithless will be captured by their own desires. 11:7 When a wicked person dies, his expectation perishes, and the hope of his strength perishes. 11:8 The righteous person is delivered out of trouble, and the wicked turns up in his stead. 11:9 With his speech the godless person destroys his neighbor, but by knowledge the righteous will be delivered. 11:10 When the righteous do well, the city rejoices; when the wicked perish, there is joy. 11:11 A city is exalted by the blessing provided from the upright, but it is destroyed by the counsel of the wicked. 11:12 The one who denounces his neighbor lacks wisdom, but the one who has discernment keeps silent. 11:13 The one who goes about slandering others reveals secrets, but the one who is trustworthy conceals a matter. 11:14 When there is no guidance a nation falls, but there is success in the abundance of counselors. 11:15 The one who puts up security for a stranger will surely have trouble, but whoever avoids shaking hands will be secure. 11:16 A generous woman gains honor, and ruthless men seize wealth. 11:17 A kind person benefits himself, but a cruel person brings himself trouble. 11:18 The wicked person earns deceitful wages, but the one who sows righteousness reaps a genuine reward. 11:19 True righteousness leads to life, but the one who pursues evil pursues it to his own death. 11:20 The Lord abhors those who are perverse in heart, but those who are blameless in their ways are his delight. 11:21 Be assured that the evil person will certainly be punished, but the descendants of the righteous will not suffer unjust judgment. 11:22 Like a gold ring in a pig's snout is a beautiful woman who rejects discretion. 11:23 What the righteous desire leads only to good, but what the wicked hope for leads to wrath. 11:24 One person is generous and yet grows more wealthy, but another withholds more than he should and comes to poverty. 11:25 A generous person will be enriched, and the one who provides water for others will himself be satisfied. 11:26 People will curse the one who withholds grain, but they will praise the one who sells it. 11:27 The one who diligently seeks good seeks favor, but the one who searches for evil -- it will come to him. 11:28 The one who trusts in his riches will fall, but the righteous will flourish like a green leaf. 11:29 The one who troubles his family will inherit nothing, and the fool will be a servant to the wise person. 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is like a tree producing life, and the one who wins souls is wise. 11:31 If the righteous are recompensed on earth, how much more the wicked sinner! Prayer Lord, You have made the difference between those who listen to You and those who do not as plain as can be -- choices have consequences. May I be careful to make the choice for You! Commentary In what is labeled "The First Collection of Solomonic Proverbs" he presents a list of wise choices followed by the corollary, e.g. "The one who is lazy becomes poor, but the one who works diligently becomes wealthy." He continued this format though practical daily living, ones reputation, ones relationships, and ones relationship with the Lord God. He continued the format into Chapter Eleven, addressing ones heart condition "When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom. The integrity of the upright guides them, but the crookedness of the unfaithful destroys them." Solomon also addressed the relationship between the wisdom that benefits a community versus the corollary when Godly wisdom is absent "A city is exalted by the blessing provided from the upright, but it is destroyed by the counsel of the wicked." He does not condemn capitalism but does condemn hoarding "People will curse the one who withholds grain, but they will praise the one who sells it." Interaction Consider The Lord God allows us to make choices, He stands ready to forgive and to restore and to teach, but there is an end to all of that. Discuss Why would it be important for Solomon to not only provide lots of practical-life examples but to also challenge people to recognize their heart-condition? Reflect There is a consequence to everyone in the community which flows from the decisions made by leaders, as they also must choose between wisdom and folly. Share When have you observed the different outcomes of leaders, one who obeys the Lord God, and one who dies not? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a leader, or a potential leader, for whom He wants you to pray as their decision to follow or to reject the Lord God's wisdom could have a profound impact on you, people about whom you care, and your entire community. Action: Today I will stop and listen to the Holy Spirit, and then I will make the time today (Monday) and every day the rest of the week to pray for the leader or leaders whom He has made me aware. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Proverbs 12 - 13 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! 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URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Mon May 30 22:08:03 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 30 May 2011 22:08:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Proverbs 12 - 13 Message-ID: <4DE44D83.6060002@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Proverbs 12 - 13 12:1 The one who loves discipline loves knowledge, but the one who hates reproof is stupid. 12:2 A good person obtains favor from the Lord, but the Lord condemns a person with wicked schemes. 12:3 No one can be established through wickedness, but a righteous root cannot be moved. 12:4 A noble wife is the crown of her husband, but the wife who acts shamefully is like rottenness in his bones. 12:5 The plans of the righteous are just; the counsels of the wicked are deceitful. 12:6 The words of the wicked lie in wait to shed innocent blood, but the words of the upright will deliver them. 12:7 The wicked are overthrown and perish, but the righteous household will stand. 12:8 A person is praised in accordance with his wisdom, but the one who has a twisted mind is despised. 12:9 Better is a person of humble standing who nevertheless has a servant, than one who pretends to be somebody important yet has no food. 12:10 A righteous person cares for the life of his animal, but even the most compassionate acts of the wicked are cruel. 12:11 The one who works his field will have plenty of food, but whoever chases daydreams lacks wisdom. 12:12 The wicked person desires a stronghold, but the righteous root endures. 12:13 The evil person is ensnared by the transgression of his speech, but the righteous person escapes out of trouble. 12:14 A person will be satisfied with good from the fruit of his words, and the work of his hands will be rendered to him. 12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own opinion, but the one who listens to advice is wise. 12:16 A fool's annoyance is known at once, but the prudent overlooks an insult. 12:17 The faithful witness tells what is right, but a false witness speaks deceit. 12:18 Speaking recklessly is like the thrusts of a sword, but the words of the wise bring healing. 12:19 The one who tells the truth will endure forever, but the one who lies will last only for a moment. 12:20 Deceit is in the heart of those who plot evil, but those who promote peace have joy. 12:21 The righteous do not encounter any harm, but the wicked are filled with calamity. 12:22 The Lord abhors a person who lies, but those who deal truthfully are his delight. 12:23 The shrewd person conceals knowledge, but foolish people publicize folly. 12:24 The diligent person will rule, but the slothful will become a slave. 12:25 Anxiety in a person's heart weighs him down, but an encouraging word brings him joy. 12:26 The righteous person is cautious in his friendship, but the way of the wicked leads them astray. 12:27 The lazy person does not roast his prey, but personal possessions are precious to the diligent. 12:28 In the path of righteousness there is life, but another path leads to death. 13:1 A wise son accepts his father's discipline, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke. 13:2 From the fruit of his speech a person eats good things, but the faithless desire the fruit of violence. 13:3 The one who guards his words guards his life, but whoever is talkative will come to ruin. 13:4 The appetite of the sluggard craves but gets no thing, but the desire of the diligent will be abundantly satisfied. 13:5 The righteous person hates anything false, but the wicked person acts in shameful disgrace. 13:6 Righteousness guards the one who lives with integrity, but wickedness overthrows the sinner. 13:7 There is one who pretends to be rich and yet has nothing; another pretends to be poor and yet possesses great wealth. 13:8 The ransom of a person's life is his wealth, but the poor person hears no threat. 13:9 The light of the righteous shines brightly, but the lamp of the wicked goes out. 13:10 With pride comes only contention, but wisdom is with the well-advised. 13:11 Wealth gained quickly will dwindle away, but the one who gathers it little by little will become rich. 13:12 Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but a longing fulfilled is like a tree of life. 13:13 The one who despises instruction will pay the penalty, but whoever esteems instruction will be rewarded. 13:14 Instruction from the wise is like a life-giving fountain, to turn a person from deadly snares. 13:15 Keen insight wins favor, but the conduct of the unfaithful is harsh. 13:16 Every shrewd person acts with knowledge, but a fool displays his folly. 13:17 An unreliable messenger falls into trouble, but a faithful envoy brings healing. 13:18 The one who neglects discipline ends up in poverty and shame, but the one who accepts reproof is honored. 13:19 A desire fulfilled is sweet to the soul, but fools abhor turning away from evil. 13:20 The one who associates with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm. 13:21 Calamity pursues sinners, but prosperity rewards the righteous. 13:22 A benevolent person leaves an inheritance for his grandchildren, but the wealth of a sinner is stored up for the righteous. 13:23 There is abundant food in the field of the poor, but it is swept away by injustice. 13:24 The one who spares his rod hates his child, but the one who loves his child is diligent in disciplining him. 13:25 The righteous has enough food to satisfy his appetite, but the belly of the wicked lacks food. Prayer Lord, You instruct in the best way to live and the consequences of rebellion, and You do so frankly. May I never be offended by Your truth. Commentary Solomon began with no pretense of worry for the feelings of those who read his Proverbs, merely wanting the truth to be known to all who were teachable "The one who loves discipline loves knowledge, but the one who hates reproof is stupid." He continued his frank declarations "A noble wife is the crown of her husband, but the wife who acts shamefully is like rottenness in his bones." Solomon warned of the folly of 'good intentions' coming from one who lacks wisdom "A righteous person cares for the life of his animal, but even the most compassionate acts of the wicked are cruel." He again reminded that choices have consequences "The one who works his field will have plenty of food, but whoever chases daydreams lacks wisdom." Solomon continued the theme of teachability "The way of a fool is right in his own opinion, but the one who listens to advice is wise." and he returned again to theme that a wise person is patient and thoughtful while the corollary is equally true "A fool's annoyance is known at once, but the prudent overlooks an insult." and as the two respond to challenges the results differ dramatically "Speaking recklessly is like the thrusts of a sword, but the words of the wise bring healing." He reminded that it is not always best to broadcast everything of which one may be aware, and even more-so, to refrain from speaking without careful thought "The shrewd person conceals knowledge, but foolish people publicize folly." Concluding Chapter Twelve Solomon returned to the eternal principle "In the path of righteousness there is life, but another path leads to death." In Chapter Thirteen Solomon parallels the worldly son-father relationship and the spiritual one "A wise son accepts his father's discipline, but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke." He addresses gossips and false teachers versus encouragers and faithful teachers "An unreliable messenger falls into trouble, but a faithful envoy brings healing." Solomon challenges those who would be wise to dig deeply for understanding-in-application "A desire fulfilled is sweet to the soul, but fools abhor turning away from evil." He warns that the company one keeps has an impact "The one who associates with the wise grows wise, but a companion of fools suffers harm." He observes that in a fallen world there are problems, and that the weakest are the most easily victimized by the selfish who abuse power "There is abundant food in the field of the poor, but it is swept away by injustice." Solomon advises parents that children in this fallen world are sometimes too immature to respond only to reason and will benefit from unpleasant consequences "The one who spares his rod hates his child, but the one who loves his child is diligent in disciplining him." Interaction Consider A Biblically-accurate preacher/teacher is a "faithful envoy". Discuss Why do so many people worry so much about offending other people with the truth of the Lord God when He does not? Reflect There is a lot contained in the Proverbs that shines light upon the troubles we see today. Share When have you observed an "unreliable messenger" of God's Word falling into trouble? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the company that you keep which is drawing you away from a close relationship with the Lord God. Action: Today I will acknowledge the negative influence of those who the Holy Spirit has made me aware, whether they are neighbors, relatives, workplace associates, or people with whom I associate on the Internet. I will place boundaries around those relationships, limiting them where that seems effective, and terminating them as is appropriate. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Proverbs 14 - 15 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. I don't google I SEARCH! Startpage.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dcolburn at bibleseven.com Tue May 31 23:13:37 2011 From: dcolburn at bibleseven.com (dcolburn at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 31 May 2011 23:13:37 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Proverbs 14 - 15 Message-ID: <4DE5AE61.7050209@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Proverbs 14 - 15 14:1 Every wise woman builds her household, but a foolish woman tears it down with her own hands. 14:2 The one who walks in his uprightness fears the Lord, but the one who is perverted in his ways despises him. 14:3 In the speech of a fool is a rod for his back, but the words of the wise protect them. 14:4 Where there are no oxen, the feeding trough is clean, but an abundant harvest is produced by strong oxen. 14:5 A truthful witness does not lie, but a false witness breathes out lies. 14:6 The scorner seeks wisdom but finds none, but understanding is easy for a discerning person. 14:7 Leave the presence of a foolish person, or you will not understand wise counsel. 14:8 The wisdom of the shrewd person is to discern his way, but the folly of fools is deception. 14:9 Fools mock at reparation, but among the upright there is favor. 14:10 The heart knows its own bitterness, and with its joy no one else can share. 14:11 The household of the wicked will be destroyed, but the tent of the upright will flourish. 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a person, but its end is the way that leads to death. 14:13 Even in laughter the heart may ache, and the end of joy may be grief. 14:14 The backslider will be paid back from his own ways, but a good person will be rewarded for his. 14:15 A naive person believes everything, but the shrewd person discerns his steps. 14:16 A wise person is cautious and turns from evil, but a fool throws off restraint and is overconfident. 14:17 A person who has a quick temper does foolish things, and a person with crafty schemes is hated. 14:18 The naive inherit folly, but the shrewd are crowned with knowledge. 14:19 Those who are evil will bow before those who are good, and the wicked will bow at the gates of the righteous. 14:20 A poor person is disliked even by his neighbors, but those who love the rich are many. 14:21 The one who despises his neighbor sins, but whoever is kind to the needy is blessed. 14:22 Do not those who devise evil go astray? But those who plan good exhibit faithful covenant love. 14:23 In all hard work there is profit, but merely talking about it only brings poverty. 14:24 The crown of the wise is their riches, but the folly of fools is folly. 14:25 A truthful witness rescues lives, but the one who breathes lies brings deception. 14:26 In the fear of the Lord one has strong confidence, and it will be a refuge for his children. 14:27 The fear of the Lord is like a life-giving fountain, to turn people from deadly snares. 14:28 A king's glory is the abundance of people, but the lack of subjects is the ruin of a ruler. 14:29 The one who is slow to anger has great understanding, but the one who has a quick temper exalts folly. 14:30 A tranquil spirit revives the body, but envy is rottenness to the bones. 14:31 The one who oppresses the poor insults his Creator, but whoever shows favor to the needy honors him. 14:32 The wicked will be thrown down in his trouble, but the righteous have refuge even in the threat of death. 14:33 Wisdom rests in the heart of the discerning; it is known even in the heart of fools. 14:34 Righteousness exalts a nation, but sin is a disgrace to any people. 14:35 The king shows favor to a wise servant, but his wrath falls on one who acts shamefully. 15:1 A gentle response turns away anger, but a harsh word stirs up wrath. 15:2 The tongue of the wise treats knowledge correctly, but the mouth of the fool spouts out folly. 15:3 The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on those who are evil and those who are good. 15:4 Speech that heals is like a life-giving tree, but a perverse tongue breaks the spirit. 15:5 A fool rejects his father's discipline, but whoever heeds reproof shows good sense. 15:6 In the house of the righteous is abundant wealth, but the income of the wicked brings trouble. 15:7 The lips of the wise spread knowledge, but not so the heart of fools. 15:8 The Lord abhors the sacrifices of the wicked, but the prayer of the upright pleases him. 15:9 The Lord abhors the way of the wicked, but he loves those who pursue righteousness. 15:10 Severe discipline is for the one who abandons the way; the one who hates reproof will die. 15:11 Death and Destruction are before the Lord -- how much more the hearts of humans! 15:12 The scorner does not love one who corrects him; he will not go to the wise. 15:13 A joyful heart makes the face cheerful, but by a painful heart the spirit is broken. 15:14 The discerning heart seeks knowledge, but the mouth of fools feeds on folly. 15:15 All the days of the afflicted are bad, but one with a cheerful heart has a continual feast. 15:16 Better is little with the fear of the Lord than great wealth and turmoil with it. 15:17 Better a meal of vegetables where there is love than a fattened ox where there is hatred. 15:18 A quick-tempered person stirs up dissension, but one who is slow to anger calms a quarrel. 15:19 The way of the sluggard is like a hedge of thorns, but the path of the upright is like a highway. 15:20 A wise child brings joy to his father, but a foolish person despises his mother. 15:21 Folly is a joy to one who lacks sense, but one who has understanding follows an upright course. 15:22 Plans fail when there is no counsel, but with abundant advisers they are established. 15:23 A person has joy in giving an appropriate answer, and a word at the right time -- how good it is! 15:24 The path of life is upward for the wise person, to keep him from going downward to Sheol. 15:25 The Lord tears down the house of the proud, but he maintains the boundaries of the widow. 15:26 The Lord abhors the plans of the wicked, but pleasant words are pure. 15:27 The one who is greedy for gain troubles his household, but whoever hates bribes will live. 15:28 The heart of the righteous considers how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things. 15:29 The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous. 15:30 A bright look brings joy to the heart, and good news gives health to the body. 15:31 The person who hears the reproof that leads to life is at home among the wise. 15:32 The one who refuses correction despises himself, but whoever hears reproof acquires understanding. 15:33 The fear of the Lord provides wise instruction, and before honor comes humility. Prayer Lord, Your gift of wisdom brings blessing to every part of our lives. May I pursue and honor Your wisdom wherever I find it. Commentary Solomon contrasted the wise and foolish woman "Every wise woman builds her household, but a foolish woman tears it down with her own hands." He warned that keeping the wrong company may interfere with understanding "Leave the presence of a foolish person, or you will not understand wise counsel." and he warned that when a mere man imagines that he is more-wise than God there is trouble "There is a way that seems right to a person, but its end is the way that leads to death." Solomon repeated his contrast between the thoughtfulness of a wise person versus a fool "A wise person is cautious and turns from evil, but a fool throws off restraint and is overconfident." He noted the consequences of different heart-conditions "A tranquil spirit revives the body, but envy is rottenness to the bones." Solomon observed "Wisdom rests in the heart of the discerning; it is known even in the heart of fools.", which is why the fool is guilty before the Lord -- he chooses to reject wisdom. He continued the theme of consequences for choices "A gentle response turns away anger, but a harsh word stirs up wrath ... Speech that heals is like a life-giving tree, but a perverse tongue breaks the spirit ... A fool rejects his father's discipline, but whoever heeds reproof shows good sense ... A joyful heart makes the face cheerful, but by a painful heart the spirit is broken ... The fear of the Lord provides wise instruction, and before honor comes humility." and that merely because someone speaks with confidence does not mean that they are correct "The tongue of the wise treats knowledge correctly, but the mouth of the fool spouts out folly." Solomon warned that there is no where to hide from the Lord God and that He knows who are good and evil "The eyes of the Lord are in every place, keeping watch on those who are evil and those who are good." He observes that poor choices aren't obvious to the one who rejects wisdom "Folly is a joy to one who lacks sense, but one who has understanding follows an upright course." Solomon explained that ones heart-condition when praying impacts how one is received in the throne-room of the Lord God "The Lord is far from the wicked, but he hears the prayer of the righteous." Interaction Consider It has long been known that foolish people, even when confronted with their foolishness, will deny it as they are blind to truth and wisdom. Discuss Why can spending time in the company of "a foolish person" get in the way of ones recognition of "wise counsel"? Reflect Solomon's warning is important -- as an earnest speaker is not necessarily an honest speaker -- in business, politics, or religion. Share When have you observed a person so convinced that there is no greater wisdom than their pursuit of momentary pleasure that they were unable to recognize obvious truth? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your life where envy sometimes interferes with the blessing of a tranquil heart that the Lord God desires for you. Action: Today I will confess and repent, seek and receive the Lord's forgiveness, and cease from any envy that I might rest in the tranquility of knowing that in all things that matter - He is sufficient. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Proverbs 16 -- Draw nearer to the Lord and He will bless you, Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! David M. Colburn, DMin. MaCo ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org Teacher's Verse: John 7:16 Defend free speech or lose your freedom. 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