From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Sep 1 22:29:55 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 01 Sep 2010 22:29:55 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Exodus 31 Message-ID: <4C7F0C23.1030700@bibleseven.com> Thursday *Exodus 31* Willing Artisans 31:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God in skill, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship, 31:4 to make artistic designs for work with gold, with silver, and with bronze, 31:5 and with cutting and setting stone, and with cutting wood, to work in all kinds of craftsmanship. 31:6 Moreover, I have also given him Oholiab son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, and I have given ability to all the specially skilled, that they may make everything I have commanded you: 31:7 the tent of meeting, the ark of the testimony, the atonement lid that is on it, all the furnishings of the tent, 31:8 the table with its utensils, the pure lampstand with all its utensils, the altar of incense, 31:9 the altar for the burnt offering with all its utensils, the large basin with its base, 31:10 the woven garments, the holy garments for Aaron the priest and the garments for his sons, to minister as priests, 31:11 the anointing oil, and sweet incense for the Holy Place. They will make all these things just as I have commanded you." Sabbath Observance 31:12 The Lord said to Moses, 31:13 "Tell the Israelites, 'Surely you must keep my Sabbaths, for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 31:14 So you must keep the Sabbath, for it is holy for you. Everyone who defiles it must surely be put to death; indeed, if anyone does any work on it, then that person will be cut off from among his people. 31:15 Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; anyone who does work on the Sabbath day must surely be put to death. 31:16 The Israelites must keep the Sabbath by observing the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. 31:17 It is a sign between me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'" 31:18 He gave Moses two tablets of testimony when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, tablets of stone written by the finger of God. Prayer Lord, with whatever gifts You have given me, please allow me to humbly serve You in any way that You choose. Commentary After the Lord God instructed Moses as to what He wanted done He then identified those whom He had prepared to do it; in this case it was Bezalel, the son of Hur, /"I have filled him with the Spirit of God in skill, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship," /and /"Oholiab son of Ahisamach ... I have given ability to all the specially skilled"/ [The latter phrase perhaps better rendered "specialty skills"?] The Lord then re-emphasized the importance of the Sabbath in the OT covenant with the Israelites "/Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord ..."/ He continued with an explanation as to why the Sabbath was holy "/It is a sign between me and the Israelites forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"/ It is important to note the NET translators clarification that "rested" refers to the cessation of the original unique Creation, not because God was tired, nor that He never acted upon His Creation again. It is also important to note that "was refreshed" may be better rendered with an eye toward the Creation-phrase "And He saw that it was good." [See Gen. 1:4, 31, 2:1-3] And with the lengthy completion of His instructions to Moses "/He gave Moses two tablets of testimony when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, tablets of stone written by the finger of God."/ Interaction Consider this: The Lord God gives gifts for His purposes, not ours. Discuss this: How exciting would it be to know that God had given to you specific gifts for such a special purpose as the construction of the tabernacle and the manufacture of the robes and furniture and utensils? Reflect on this: While God has given us the ability to be creative we do not Create in the same original way that He did. Man labored then, as now, under the terms of the curse of the Fall. God's insistence that they cease from those labors one day each week was to keep them from becoming slaves to the world with no time for Him. Share this: When have you experienced God using the gifts that He gave to you? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you are using God's gifts to His purposes and glory and where you are either failing to use those gifts or are misusing them to some worldly purpose. Action: Today I will celebrate the way(s) that God has and is using the gifts He gave me. I will also commit to partner with the Holy Spirit, and a prayerful accountability partner, to cease from using His gifts to my glory or that of anyone or anything other than Him. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: *Exodus 32:1-18* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Sep 2 21:10:30 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2010 21:10:30 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Exodus 32:1-18 Message-ID: <4C804B06.6070205@bibleseven.com> Friday *Exodus 32:1-18* The Sin of the Golden Calf 32:1 When the people saw that Moses delayed in coming down from the mountain, they gathered around Aaron and said to him, "Get up, make us gods that will go before us. As for this fellow Moses, the man who brought us up from the land of Egypt, we do not know what has become of him!" 32:2 So Aaron said to them, "Break off the gold earrings that are on the ears of your wives, your sons, and your daughters, and bring them to me." 32:3 So all the people broke off the gold earrings that were on their ears and brought them to Aaron. 32:4 He accepted the gold from them, fashioned it with an engraving tool, and made a molten calf. Then they said, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt." 32:5 When Aaron saw this, he built an altar before it, and Aaron made a proclamation and said, "Tomorrow will be a feast to the Lord." 32:6 So they got up early on the next day and offered up burnt offerings and brought peace offerings, and the people sat down to eat and drink, and they rose up to play. 32:7 The Lord spoke to Moses: "Go quickly, descend, because your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have acted corruptly. 32:8 They have quickly turned aside from the way that I commanded them -- they have made for themselves a molten calf and have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and said, 'These are your gods, O Israel, which brought you up from the land of Egypt.'" 32:9 Then the Lord said to Moses: "I have seen this people. Look what a stiff-necked people they are! 32:10 So now, leave me alone so that my anger can burn against them and I can destroy them, and I will make from you a great nation." 32:11 But Moses sought the favor of the Lord his God and said, "O Lord, why does your anger burn against your people, whom you have brought out from the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 32:12 Why should the Egyptians say, 'For evil he led them out to kill them in the mountains and to destroy them from the face of the earth'? Turn from your burning anger, and relent of this evil against your people. 32:13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel your servants, to whom you swore by yourself and told them, 'I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have spoken about I will give to your descendants, and they will inherit it forever.'" 32:14 Then the Lord relented over the evil that he had said he would do to his people. 32:15 Moses turned and went down from the mountain with the two tablets of the testimony in his hands. The tablets were written on both sides -- they were written on the front and on the back. 32:16 Now the tablets were the work of God, and the writing was the writing of God, engraved on the tablets. 32:17 When Joshua heard the noise of the people as they shouted, he said to Moses, "It is the sound of war in the camp!" 32:18 Moses said, "It is not the sound of those who shout for victory, nor is it the sound of those who cry because they are overcome, but the sound of singing I hear." Prayer Lord, when times in this flesh in this fallen world are tough and I am afraid of the uncertain and the unknown may I never be found making an idol of anyone or anything. Commentary Aaron is challenged by the israelites to make for them an idol as they believed that Moses may be dead or somehow imprisoned on the mountain and they were frightened. He agreed and asked them to bring the gold from their earrings, much of which was plundered from the Egyptians, and given that there were over a million people there was enough gold for a molten calf. The people chanted that this was their god (or gods) who brought them out of Egypt and so Aaron built an altar to which they brought peace offerings and then they danced and sang. God saw what they had done and instructed Moses to leave the mountain as He was contemplating the destruction of the Israelites. Moses, sensing the righteous anger and the justice of His punishment, appealed to His grace in order that a testimony of God's greatness might be had in the world rather than One Who led His people out of Egypt only to destroy them a few months later at the mountain. God chose His sovereign option of grace over His sovereign right to law and relented from His righteous anger. As Moses descended from the mountain Joshua met him where he had been waiting. As they traveled further down they heard sounds from the valley; Joshua took them to be sounds of war, Moses heard them as sounds of singing. Interaction Consider this: The Israelites were a primitive people only months free from 400 years of captivity in Egypt. They had been surrounded by pagans and still lacked a clear understanding of God. Discuss this: How heartsick the Lord God must have been, and Moses as well, for the Israelites to rebel so soon -- and for His chosen high priest Aaron to be a party to their idolatry. Reflect on this: The people were confused and frightened and wanted something that they could see and touch rather than a God Who was at a distance from them and generally appeared in frighteningly powerful ways. Share this: When have you longer for a more visible indication of the presence of God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may have idols in your life. Action: Today I will humbly confess those things that function as idols in my life. They may be money or power, position or title, gifts and talents I use to bring glory to me rather than to God. They may be celebrities, politicians, sports stars, entertainers, rebels, or pompous religious leaders. They may be habits or hobbies, peccadilloes or possessions, temptations or traditions. I will repent of, turn away from, them and partner with the Holy Spirit to keep my eyes upon God-alone. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: *Exodus 32:19-35* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Sep 3 21:59:02 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:59:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Exodus 32:19-35 Message-ID: <4C81A7E6.1040101@bibleseven.com> Saturday *Exodus 32:19-35* 32:19 When he approached the camp and saw the calf and the dancing, Moses became extremely angry. He threw the tablets from his hands and broke them to pieces at the bottom of the mountain. 32:20 He took the calf they had made and burned it in the fire, ground it to powder, poured it out on the water, and made the Israelites drink it. 32:21 Moses said to Aaron, "What did this people do to you, that you have brought on them so great a sin?" 32:22 Aaron said, "Do not let your anger burn hot, my lord; you know these people, that they tend to evil. 32:23 They said to me, 'Make us gods that will go before us, for as for this fellow Moses, the man who brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we do not know what has happened to him.' 32:24 So I said to them, 'Whoever has gold, break it off.' So they gave it to me, and I threw it into the fire, and this calf came out." 32:25 Moses saw that the people were running wild, for Aaron had let them get completely out of control, causing derision from their enemies. 32:26 So Moses stood at the entrance of the camp and said, "Whoever is for the Lord, come to me." All the Levites gathered around him, 32:27 and he said to them, "Thus says the Lord, the God of Israel, 'Each man fasten his sword on his side, and go back and forth from entrance to entrance throughout the camp, and each one kill his brother, his friend, and his neighbor.'" 32:28 The Levites did what Moses ordered, and that day about three thousand men of the people died. 32:29 Moses said, "You have been consecrated today for the Lord, for each of you was against his son or against his brother, so he has given a blessing to you today." 32:30 The next day Moses said to the people, "You have committed a very serious sin, but now I will go up to the Lord -- perhaps I can make atonement on behalf of your sin." 32:31 So Moses returned to the Lord and said, "Alas, this people has committed a very serious sin, and they have made for themselves gods of gold. 32:32 But now, if you will forgive their sin..., but if not, wipe me out from your book that you have written." 32:33 The Lord said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against me -- that person I will wipe out of my book. 32:34 So now go, lead the people to the place I have spoken to you about. See, my angel will go before you. But on the day that I punish, I will indeed punish them for their sin." 32:35 And the Lord sent a plague on the people because they had made the calf -- the one Aaron made. Prayer Lord, the sin of rebellion is serious; may Your Holy Spirit keep me from such a sin. Commentary Moses was angry when he saw what the Israelites, and Aaron, had done and in his anger he smashed the two tablets of the commandments on the rocks. Moses burned the golden calf and ground it to powder, cast it on the water, then required the Israelites to drink it. The NET translators suggest that this was a "bitter waters" test where those who were guilty of inciting the idolatry would become ill. Moses challenged Aaron for his complicity and he blamed the people and then lied and suggested that the gold, once cast into the fire, came out as the calf. Aaron, a priest and not a leader, had allowed the people to become drunk and crazed to Moses stood in the middle of the Israelites and summoned all who were faithful to the Lord God to gather near to him -- and all of the Levites (the priestly tribe) did so. Note: Moses would have been calling to the adult males. Moses then instructed the Levites to strap on their swords and to go out into the crazed Israelites and to kill their brother, friend, and neighbor. They killed 3,000 people. The NET translators suggest that they may have identified the guilty due to their illness from the powered gold/bitter waters test. Moses informed them that they had been God's hands of punishment and would be blessed for their obedience, however difficult it must have been. Moses then informed the people that he would return to God and seek atonement so that the sovereign Lord God would not destroy them. Moses appealed to God and even said that if God was to destroy all of the Israelites that he wanted to be destroyed with them. God replied that He knew who was guilty and that they would be judged on the day of judgment. Note: The NET Cross-Reference goes to David and Bathsheba where God delivered His punishment in the future with the death of their firstborn who was conceived in the terrible sin of adultery and murder. God then brought an undefined (in the text) plague upon the Israelites (presumably those who were guilty of inciting the idolatry). Interaction Consider this: God chose Aaron to be the high priest not for his leadership skills but for his servants heart. Discuss this: Aaron spoke rightly when he declared that the Israelites were prone toward evil. Is it clear why God needed to draw a proverbial line in the sand with a people numbering over a million? Did they not need to fear Him and to therefore be repelled by the temptation to worship idols? Reflect on this: How different are we? When we are confused and/or frightened do we not often seek out the familiar and whatever other sources of comfort or power we can find? Share this: When have you found yourself caught up in the emotional reactions of people around you and made some choices to participate in their ill-conceived actions and/or words that you later regretted? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you have stood with the Lord God against the majority, and/or have gone with the crowd. Action: Today I will celebrate the work of the Holy Spirit which empowered me to stand with the Lord God instead of the majority, and/or I will repent of going with the crowd and commit to partner with the Holy Spirit in maturing to a higher level of maturity and courage. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Exodus 33 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Sep 4 20:58:19 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2010 20:58:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Exodus 33 Message-ID: <4C82EB2B.9090304@bibleseven.com> Sunday *Exodus 33* 33:1 The Lord said to Moses, "Go up from here, you and the people whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, to the land I promised on oath to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, saying, 'I will give it to your descendants.' 33:2 I will send an angel before you, and I will drive out the Canaanite, the Amorite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite. 33:3 Go up to a land flowing with milk and honey. But I will not go up among you, for you are a stiff-necked people, and I might destroy you on the way." 33:4 When the people heard this troubling word they mourned; no one put on his ornaments. 33:5 For the Lord had said to Moses, "Tell the Israelites, 'You are a stiff-necked people. If I went up among you for a moment, I might destroy you. Now take off your ornaments, that I may know what I should do to you.'" 33:6 So the Israelites stripped off their ornaments by Mount Horeb. The Presence of the Lord 33:7 Moses took the tent and pitched it outside the camp, at a good distance from the camp, and he called it the tent of meeting. Anyone seeking the Lord would go out to the tent of meeting that was outside the camp. 33:8 And when Moses went out to the tent, all the people would get up and stand at the entrance to their tents and watch Moses until he entered the tent. 33:9 And whenever Moses entered the tent, the pillar of cloud would descend and stand at the entrance of the tent, and the Lord would speak with Moses. 33:10 When all the people would see the pillar of cloud standing at the entrance of the tent, all the people, each one at the entrance of his own tent, would rise and worship. 33:11 The Lord would speak to Moses face to face, the way a person speaks to a friend. Then Moses would return to the camp, but his servant, Joshua son of Nun, a young man, did not leave the tent. 33:12 Moses said to the Lord, "See, you have been saying to me, 'Bring this people up,' but you have not let me know whom you will send with me. But you said, 'I know you by name, and also you have found favor in my sight.' 33:13 Now if I have found favor in your sight, show me your way, that I may know you, that I may continue to find favor in your sight. And see that this nation is your people." 33:14 And the Lord said, "My presence will go with you, and I will give you rest." 33:15 And Moses said to him, "If your presence does not go with us, do not take us up from here. 33:16 For how will it be known then that I have found favor in your sight, I and your people? Is it not by your going with us, so that we will be distinguished, I and your people, from all the people who are on the face of the earth?" 33:17 The Lord said to Moses, "I will do this thing also that you have requested, for you have found favor in my sight, and I know you by name." 33:18 And Moses said, "Show me your glory." 33:19 And the Lord said, "I will make all my goodness pass before your face, and I will proclaim the Lord by name before you; I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, I will show mercy to whom I will show mercy." 33:20 But he added, "You cannot see my face, for no one can see me and live." 33:21 The Lord said, "Here is a place by me; you will station yourself on a rock. 33:22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and will cover you with my hand while I pass by. 33:23 Then I will take away my hand, and you will see my back, but my face must not be seen." Prayer Lord, You were righteously angry but You found a way to maintain community with Your chosen people through Moses. Thank You that Your loving grace continues today! Commentary The Lord God announces that He cannot be among the Israelites as their sin, in such close proximity, could anger Him and cause their destruction. [Perhaps this is the "plague" to which the end of Chapter 32 referred?] The people mourned as they feared for their lives without God's presence and removed all of the gold earrings, and perhaps other jewelry, to demonstrate their remorse. The NET translators observe that the gold jewelry was what was used to make the golden calf. He does promise to send an angel [The NET translators do not believe this is the same "Angel of Presence" He previous mentioned] to clear the land of other non-Israelite tribes. Moses set up a tent between the camp and the tabernacle where he served as the intermediary for the people with God. God met with Moses there. Moses appealed to God to renew His presence among the people. The NET translators observe the link back to 32:10 where God prompts Moses with a reference to the Abrahamic covenant while at the same time telling Moses to leave Him because His justice desired to punish the people. So Moses took advantage of the opening for reconciliation that God provided. Moses asked to see more of the presence of God than he had previously. God agreed but clarified that Moses could only see a shadow of His passing as no man may see God, in the fallen state prior to Heaven, and live. Interaction Consider this: Moses served as a bridge between a righteously indignant God Whose justice demanded severe punishment but Whose grace tempered that judgment. Discuss this: Despite their chronic complaining and rebellion the Israelites had transitioned from dependent upon the power of the Egyptians to the power of God. Imagine their fear that out in the wilderness, surrounded by enemies, God might suddenly abandon them? Reflect on this: God still chooses to send an angel to clear the land of non-Israelite tribes because no matter how the Israelites violated their side of the covenantal agreement God was always faithful to His. Share this: When have you desperately cried-out to the Lord God, knowing that your sin had created a barrier to your fellowship with the Holy Spirit, repenting of that sin, and seeking reconciliation and restoration of intimacy with God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where something you value may be a tool of rebellion. Action: Today I will prayerfully receive the message of the Holy Spirit, through the Word, through an elder-confirmed ("elder": a mature believer, as defined in the NT), and through His answer to prayer directly to me. I will remove from my environment that thing, or those things, that have become tools of rebellion. In the case of the Israelites it had been their gold "ornaments". In my case it could be a computer that needs strong filters, clothing and/or other fashion items that draw too much attention to the body, a group with whom I associate who lead me away from God, a phone that is used dangerously while driving or to communicate in a non-edifying manner, resources that enable me to cheat or deceive, etc. I will partner with the Holy Spirit to fill the vacuum of what I remove with something edifying. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: *Exodus 34* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Sep 5 20:32:00 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:32:00 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Exodus 34 Message-ID: <4C843680.1080305@bibleseven.com> Monday *Exodus 34* The New Tablets of the Covenant 34:1 The Lord said to Moses, "Cut out two tablets of stone like the first, and I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you smashed. 34:2 Be prepared in the morning, and go up in the morning to Mount Sinai, and station yourself for me there on the top of the mountain. 34:3 No one is to come up with you; do not let anyone be seen anywhere on the mountain; not even the flocks or the herds may graze in front of that mountain." 34:4 So Moses cut out two tablets of stone like the first; early in the morning he went up to Mount Sinai, just as the Lord had commanded him, and he took in his hand the two tablets of stone. 34:5 The Lord descended in the cloud and stood with him there and proclaimed the Lord by name. 34:6 The Lord passed by before him and proclaimed: "The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, and abounding in loyal love and faithfulness, 34:7 keeping loyal love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. But he by no means leaves the guilty unpunished, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children and children's children, to the third and fourth generation." 34:8 Moses quickly bowed to the ground and worshiped 34:9 and said, "If now I have found favor in your sight, O Lord, let my Lord go among us, for we are a stiff-necked people; pardon our iniquity and our sin, and take us for your inheritance." 34:10 He said, "See, I am going to make a covenant before all your people. I will do wonders such as have not been done in all the earth, nor in any nation. All the people among whom you live will see the work of the Lord, for it is a fearful thing that I am doing with you. 34:11 "Obey what I am commanding you this day. I am going to drive out before you the Amorite, the Canaanite, the Hittite, the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite. 34:12 Be careful not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land where you are going, lest it become a snare among you. 34:13 Rather you must destroy their altars, smash their images, and cut down their Asherah poles. 34:14 For you must not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God. 34:15 Be careful not to make a covenant with the inhabitants of the land, for when they prostitute themselves to their gods and sacrifice to their gods, and someone invites you, you will eat from his sacrifice; 34:16 and you then take his daughters for your sons, and when his daughters prostitute themselves to their gods, they will make your sons prostitute themselves to their gods as well. 34:17 You must not make yourselves molten gods. 34:18 "You must keep the Feast of Unleavened Bread. For seven days you must eat bread made without yeast, as I commanded you; do this at the appointed time of the month Abib, for in the month Abib you came out of Egypt. 34:19 "Every firstborn of the womb belongs to me, even every firstborn of your cattle that is a male, whether ox or sheep. 34:20 Now the firstling of a donkey you may redeem with a lamb, but if you do not redeem it, then break its neck. You must redeem all the firstborn of your sons. "No one will appear before me empty-handed. 34:21 "On six days you may labor, but on the seventh day you must rest; even at the time of plowing and of harvest you are to rest. 34:22 "You must observe the Feast of Weeks -- the firstfruits of the harvest of wheat -- and the Feast of Ingathering at the end of the year. 34:23 At three times in the year all your men must appear before the Lord God, the God of Israel. 34:24 For I will drive out the nations before you and enlarge your borders; no one will covet your land when you go up to appear before the Lord your God three times in the year. 34:25 "You must not offer the blood of my sacrifice with yeast; the sacrifice from the feast of Passover must not remain until the following morning. 34:26 "The first of the firstfruits of your soil you must bring to the house of the Lord your God. You must not cook a young goat in its mother's milk." 34:27 The Lord said to Moses, "Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel." 34:28 So he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread, and he did not drink water. He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. The Radiant Face of Moses 34:29 Now when Moses came down from Mount Sinai with the two tablets of the testimony in his hand -- when he came down from the mountain, Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him. 34:30 When Aaron and all the Israelites saw Moses, the skin of his face shone; and they were afraid to approach him. 34:31 But Moses called to them, so Aaron and all the leaders of the community came back to him, and Moses spoke to them. 34:32 After this all the Israelites approached, and he commanded them all that the Lord had spoken to him on Mount Sinai. 34:33 When Moses finished speaking with them, he would put a veil on his face. 34:34 But when Moses went in before the Lord to speak with him, he would remove the veil until he came out. Then he would come out and tell the Israelites what he had been commanded. 34:35 When the Israelites would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone, Moses would put the veil on his face again, until he went in to speak with the Lord. Prayer Lord, thank You Lord for your patience and forgiveness and grace -- the ancient Israelites are not the only ones who need it -- I do as well. Commentary The Lord God instructed Moses to cut new tablets of stone for Him to etch with the commandments to replace those Moses had smashed. He then proclaims His name to Moses "The Lord, the Lord," which the NET translators render also as "I am that I am", which is the same name that he previously gave to Moses when He first called him to the Exodus mission and Moses had asked how he should identify God to the people. He then added the detail "... the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, and abounding in loyal love and faithfulness, keeping loyal love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin. But he by no means leaves the guilty unpunished, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children and children's children, to the third and fourth generation." Note that the NET translators explain that "slow to anger" means that God refrains from immediate judgment to allow time for repentance. He then not only agrees to renew His covenant with the Israelites but prophesies greater miracles. He repeats the terms of the covenant and the words of the commandments were recorded on the replacement set of tablets. Moses remained with God for 40 days and nights and was completely sustained by God as he did not take food or water. Moses came down from the mountain and the glow on his face from nearness to the Lord God frightened the people, but they drew near when he called them and he shared what God had said. Interaction Consider this: God always keeps His word even when His children are rebellious. Discuss this: How else could the sovereign God of Creation and beyond identify Himself except in reference to Himself? Jesus would use a similar phrase "Before Moses I Am" to identify Himself. Reflect on this: Moses surrendered himself utterly to God, relying upon Him for sustenance without food or water. God's presence imprinted a visible glow upon his face. Share this: When have you tried to explain God to someone who persisted in trying to stuff Him into a man-sized box and ended up saying "He is defined by Himself, there is no comparison."? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you one way that God has expressed His character in your life "... the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, and abounding in loyal love and faithfulness, keeping loyal love for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin." Action: Today I will share and celebrate with a fellow believer the way(s) that God has expressed His character in my life. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: *Exodus 35:1-36:7* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Sep 6 13:34:48 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2010 13:34:48 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Exodus 35:1-36:7 Message-ID: <4C852638.4000408@bibleseven.com> Tuesday *Exodus 35:1-36:7* Sabbath Regulations 35:1 Moses assembled the whole community of the Israelites and said to them, "These are the things that the Lord has commanded you to do. 35:2 In six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of complete rest to the Lord. Anyone who does work on it will be put to death. 35:3 You must not kindle a fire in any of your homes on the Sabbath day." Willing Workers 35:4 Moses spoke to the whole community of the Israelites, "This is the word that the Lord has commanded: 35:5 'Take an offering for the Lord. Let everyone who has a willing heart bring an offering to the Lord: gold, silver, bronze, 35:6 blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, fine linen, goat's hair, 35:7 ram skins dyed red, fine leather, acacia wood, 35:8 olive oil for the light, spices for the anointing oil and for the fragrant incense, 35:9 onyx stones, and other gems for mounting on the ephod and the breastpiece. 35:10 Every skilled person among you is to come and make all that the Lord has commanded: 35:11 the tabernacle with its tent, its covering, its clasps, its frames, its crossbars, its posts, and its bases; 35:12 the ark, with its poles, the atonement lid, and the special curtain that conceals it; 35:13 the table with its poles and all its vessels, and the Bread of the Presence; 35:14 the lampstand for the light and its accessories, its lamps, and oil for the light; 35:15 and the altar of incense with its poles, the anointing oil, and the fragrant incense; the hanging for the door at the entrance of the tabernacle; 35:16 the altar for the burnt offering with its bronze grating that is on it, its poles, and all its utensils; the large basin and its pedestal; 35:17 the hangings of the courtyard, its posts and its bases, and the curtain for the gateway to the courtyard; 35:18 tent pegs for the tabernacle and tent pegs for the courtyard and their ropes; 35:19 the woven garments for serving in the holy place, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments for his sons to minister as priests." 35:20 So the whole community of the Israelites went out from the presence of Moses. 35:21 Everyone whose heart stirred him to action and everyone whose spirit was willing came and brought the offering for the Lord for the work of the tent of meeting, for all its service, and for the holy garments. 35:22 They came, men and women alike, all who had willing hearts. They brought brooches, earrings, rings and ornaments, all kinds of gold jewelry, and everyone came who waved a wave offering of gold to the Lord. 35:23 Everyone who had blue, purple, or scarlet yarn, fine linen, goats' hair, ram skins dyed red, or fine leather brought them. 35:24 Everyone making an offering of silver or bronze brought it as an offering to the Lord, and everyone who had acacia wood for any work of the service brought it. 35:25 Every woman who was skilled spun with her hands and brought what she had spun, blue, purple, or scarlet yarn, or fine linen, 35:26 and all the women whose heart stirred them to action and who were skilled spun goats' hair. 35:27 The leaders brought onyx stones and other gems to be mounted for the ephod and the breastpiece, 35:28 and spices and olive oil for the light, for the anointing oil, and for the fragrant incense. 35:29 The Israelites brought a freewill offering to the Lord, every man and woman whose heart was willing to bring materials for all the work that the Lord through Moses had commanded them to do. 35:30 Moses said to the Israelites, "See, the Lord has chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. 35:31 He has filled him with the Spirit of God -- with skill, with understanding, with knowledge, and in all kinds of work, 35:32 to design artistic designs, to work in gold, in silver, and in bronze, 35:33 and in cutting stones for their setting, and in cutting wood, to do work in every artistic craft. 35:34 And he has put it in his heart to teach, he and Oholiab son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan. 35:35 He has filled them with skill to do all kinds of work as craftsmen, as designers, as embroiderers in blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and in fine linen, and as weavers. They are craftsmen in all the work and artistic designers. 36:1 So Bezalel and Oholiab and every skilled person in whom the Lord has put skill and ability to know how to do all the work for the service of the sanctuary are to do the work according to all that the Lord has commanded." 36:2 Moses summoned Bezalel and Oholiab and every skilled person in whom the Lord had put skill -- everyone whose heart stirred him to volunteer to do the work, 36:3 and they received from Moses all the offerings the Israelites had brought to do the work for the service of the sanctuary, and they still continued to bring him a freewill offering each morning. 36:4 So all the skilled people who were doing all the work on the sanctuary came from the work they were doing 36:5 and told Moses, "The people are bringing much more than is needed for the completion of the work which the Lord commanded us to do!" 36:6 Moses instructed them to take his message throughout the camp, saying, "Let no man or woman do any more work for the offering for the sanctuary." So the people were restrained from bringing any more. 36:7 Now the materials were more than enough for them to do all the work. Prayer Lord, You allowed everyone, male or female to have a part in the construction of Your Tabernacle. May I be found useful in Your service today. Commentary The NET translators observe that there is a different sequential order in the renewed covenant than was in the pre-idolatry covenant "It is the artistic design that puts the filling of the Spirit section (31:1-11) prior to the Sabbath laws (31:12-18) before the idolatry section, and then after the renewal there is the Sabbath reminder (35:1-3) before the filling of the Spirit material (35:21)" The Lord God required, and communicated to the Israelites once again through Moses, the importance of the Sabbath rest. It may be helpful to think of the Sabbath rest as resting from the world and in the Lord God. The people were not to be immobile on the Sabbath; they did not rest from eating or drinking, walking or talking, breathing or loving, healing or helping -- all activities that may have been used in their day-to-day worldly work -- it was that during the Sabbath rest all things were intentionally focused on God and all things that were a distraction from that were forbidden. A fire in the fireplace or oven was not a problem on the Sabbath but kindling one anew was -- because the process of kindling was too distracting -- people were expected to be prepared for the Sabbath so that such activities were unnecessary. The fire should have been tended in such a manner prior to the Sabbath that it may need to be fed but not newly kindled. Given the change of weather and the poorly insulated Bedouin-like portable homes of the Israelites there would be times when they would need heat against the cold (potentially below freezing during Winter nights in the desert). All of the people were encouraged to bring resources and talents to the construction of the tabernacle, they were motivated by the Holy Spirit (as they responded rightly), and the were gifted with resources and talents by God. The response among the second-change Israelites was so overwhelming that in verses 36:5-7 Moses had to ask them to stop as the project had more than it needed. Interaction Consider this: It was important that the Israelites plan for the Sabbath so they were not engaging in forbidden activities on that day. They had already been taught this by the Lord God in the gathering of Manna -- since He had provided that for several months in double-portion on Friday to be gathered for both Friday and Saturday. Discuss this: Would treatment of injuries or the ill, birthing of a baby, defending the nation from attack, managing a disaster such as a flood, or other activity be suspended on the Sabbath? Reflect on this: David and his men picked grain and ate it on the Sabbath and Jesus referred to that when He was challenged by the religious authorities for healing on the Sabbath. Clearly the intent of the Sabbath rest is not immobility but rather a highly-intentional and minimally-distracted emphasis upon what the Lord God specified for the days activities. Share this: When have you observed the people of God responding to a need in such an overwhelming manner that they had to be asked to cease? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to be more intentional about time apart with God and/or where your resources and talents may be used to meet needs among believers. Action: Today I will prayerfully review my daily and weekly schedule for regular times apart with God, as well as a weekly time apart with God gathered-together with believers. I will also prayerfully seek opportunities to being the resources and talents God has given me to bless fellow believers. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: *Exodus 36:8-37:16* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 7 20:04:32 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:04:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Exodus 36:8-37:16 Message-ID: <4C86D310.2060309@bibleseven.com> Wednesday *Exodus 36:8-37:16* The Building of the Tabernacle 36:8 All the skilled among those who were doing the work made the tabernacle with ten curtains of fine twisted linen and blue and purple and scarlet; they were made with cherubim that were the work of an artistic designer. 36:9 The length of one curtain was forty-two feet, and the width of one curtain was six feet -- the same size for each of the curtains. 36:10 He joined five of the curtains to one another, and the other five curtains he joined to one another. 36:11 He made loops of blue material along the edge of the end curtain in the first set; he did the same along the edge of the end curtain in the second set. 36:12 He made fifty loops on the first curtain, and he made fifty loops on the end curtain that was in the second set, with the loops opposite one another. 36:13 He made fifty gold clasps and joined the curtains together to one another with the clasps, so that the tabernacle was a unit. 36:14 He made curtains of goats' hair for a tent over the tabernacle; he made eleven curtains. 36:15 The length of one curtain was forty-five feet, and the width of one curtain was six feet -- one size for all eleven curtains. 36:16 He joined five curtains by themselves and six curtains by themselves. 36:17 He made fifty loops along the edge of the end curtain in the first set and fifty loops along the edge of the curtain that joined the second set. 36:18 He made fifty bronze clasps to join the tent together so that it might be a unit. 36:19 He made a covering for the tent out of ram skins dyed red and over that a covering of fine leather. 36:20 He made the frames for the tabernacle of acacia wood as uprights. 36:21 The length of each frame was fifteen feet, the width of each frame was two and a quarter feet, 36:22 with two projections per frame parallel one to another. He made all the frames of the tabernacle in this way. 36:23 So he made frames for the tabernacle: twenty frames for the south side. 36:24 He made forty silver bases under the twenty frames -- two bases under the first frame for its two projections, and likewise two bases under the next frame for its two projections, 36:25 and for the second side of the tabernacle, the north side, he made twenty frames 36:26 and their forty silver bases, two bases under the first frame and two bases under the next frame. 36:27 And for the back of the tabernacle on the west he made six frames. 36:28 He made two frames for the corners of the tabernacle on the back. 36:29 At the two corners they were doubled at the lower end and finished together at the top in one ring. So he did for both. 36:30 So there were eight frames and their silver bases, sixteen bases, two bases under each frame. 36:31 He made bars of acacia wood, five for the frames on one side of the tabernacle 36:32 and five bars for the frames on the second side of the tabernacle, and five bars for the frames of the tabernacle for the back side on the west. 36:33 He made the middle bar to reach from end to end in the center of the frames. 36:34 He overlaid the frames with gold and made their rings of gold to provide places for the bars, and he overlaid the bars with gold. 36:35 He made the special curtain of blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and fine twisted linen; he made it with cherubim, the work of an artistic designer. 36:36 He made for it four posts of acacia wood and overlaid them with gold, with gold hooks, and he cast for them four silver bases. 36:37 He made a hanging for the entrance of the tent of blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and fine twisted linen, the work of an embroiderer, 36:38 and its five posts and their hooks. He overlaid their tops and their bands with gold, but their five bases were bronze. The Making of the Ark 37:1 Bezalel made the ark of acacia wood; its length was three feet nine inches, its width two feet three inches, and its height two feet three inches. 37:2 He overlaid it with pure gold, inside and out, and he made a surrounding border of gold for it. 37:3 He cast four gold rings for it that he put on its four feet, with two rings on one side and two rings on the other side. 37:4 He made poles of acacia wood, overlaid them with gold, 37:5 and put the poles into the rings on the sides of the ark in order to carry the ark. 37:6 He made an atonement lid of pure gold; its length was three feet nine inches, and its width was two feet three inches. 37:7 He made two cherubim of gold; he made them of hammered metal on the two ends of the atonement lid, 37:8 one cherub on one end and one cherub on the other end. He made the cherubim from the atonement lid on its two ends. 37:9 The cherubim were spreading their wings upward, overshadowing the atonement lid with their wings. The cherubim faced each other, looking toward the atonement lid. The Making of the Table 37:10 He made the table of acacia wood; its length was three feet, its width one foot six inches, and its height two feet three inches. 37:11 He overlaid it with pure gold, and he made a surrounding border of gold for it. 37:12 He made a surrounding frame for it about three inches wide, and he made a surrounding border of gold for its frame. 37:13 He cast four gold rings for it and attached the rings at the four corners where its four legs were. 37:14 The rings were close to the frame to provide places for the poles to carry the table. 37:15 He made the poles of acacia wood and overlaid them with gold, to carry the table. 37:16 He made the vessels which were on the table out of pure gold, its plates, its ladles, its pitchers, and its bowls, to be used in pouring out offerings. Prayer Lord, when You call someone You equip them for excellence. May I give myself fully to Your service so that You might equip me to serve You in some small way with excellence. Commentary The Lord God called and equipped Bezalel to be His "artistic designer" with oversight for the highly-detailed construction of the Tabernacle. The NET search tool finds the name Bezalel in 22 locations in the Bible text: Exo: 31:2 35:30 35:31 35:34 36:1 36:2 36:8 36:10 37:1 37:6 37:10 37:15 37:25 38:1 38:22 38:23 38:30 39:2 39:8, 1Ch: 2:20, 2Ch: 1:5 , Ezr: 10:30 The first reference to Bezalel is Exodus 31:1 "/The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "See, I have chosen Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God in skill, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all kinds of craftsmanship,"/ The Exodus references to Bezalel are generally descriptive of his work on the tabernacle. The Chronicles (1 and 2) and Ezra references are of his lineage or reference his handiwork to identify something that he had made. Interaction Consider this: The detailed and quality work had to have been extremely time-consuming and exhausting. Discuss this: While Michelangelo poured himself into painting the Sistine Chapel what must it have been like for Bezalel to work in a much more primitive environment and directly for the Lord God? Reflect on this: While the text refers to Bezalel as the "artistic designer" clearly he was God's human-hands in the creation of what He had described to Moses. Share this: When have you been blessed to create something for God's service? How were you energized and inspired to know that the Lord God intended to use your handiwork in His ministry? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you have, or where you are, or will you will apply your gifts to God's ministry. Action: Today I will prayerfully agree that whatever God asks me to do that I will humbly give my all to that task and be His tool of excellence to accomplish whenever it is that He decides. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: *Exodus 37:17-38:31* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Sep 8 13:42:45 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 13:42:45 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Exodus 37:17-38:31 Message-ID: <4C87CB15.3020209@bibleseven.com> Thursday *Exodus 37:17-38:31* The Making of the Lampstand 37:17 He made the lampstand of pure gold. He made the lampstand of hammered metal; its base and its shaft, its cups, its buds, and its blossoms were from the same piece. 37:18 Six branches were extending from its sides, three branches of the lampstand from one side of it, and three branches of the lampstand from the other side of it. 37:19 Three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms were on the first branch, and three cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms were on the next branch, and the same for the six branches that were extending from the lampstand. 37:20 On the lampstand there were four cups shaped like almond flowers with buds and blossoms, 37:21 with a bud under the first two branches from it, and a bud under the next two branches from it, and a bud under the third two branches from it; according to the six branches that extended from it. 37:22 Their buds and their branches were of one piece; all of it was one hammered piece of pure gold. 37:23 He made its seven lamps, its trimmers, and its trays of pure gold. 37:24 He made the lampstand and all its accessories with seventy-five pounds of pure gold. The Making of the Altar of Incense 37:25 He made the incense altar of acacia wood. Its length was a foot and a half and its width a foot and a half -- a square -- and its height was three feet. Its horns were of one piece with it. 37:26 He overlaid it with pure gold -- its top, its four walls, and its horns -- and he made a surrounding border of gold for it. 37:27 He also made two gold rings for it under its border, on its two sides, on opposite sides, as places for poles to carry it with. 37:28 He made the poles of acacia wood and overlaid them with gold. 37:29 He made the sacred anointing oil and the pure fragrant incense, the work of a perfumer. The Making of the Altar for the Burnt Offering 38:1 He made the altar for the burnt offering of acacia wood seven feet six inches long and seven feet six inches wide -- it was square -- and its height was four feet six inches. 38:2 He made its horns on its four corners; its horns were part of it, and he overlaid it with bronze. 38:3 He made all the utensils of the altar -- the pots, the shovels, the tossing bowls, the meat hooks, and the fire pans -- he made all its utensils of bronze. 38:4 He made a grating for the altar, a network of bronze under its ledge, halfway up from the bottom. 38:5 He cast four rings for the four corners of the bronze grating, to provide places for the poles. 38:6 He made the poles of acacia wood and overlaid them with bronze. 38:7 He put the poles into the rings on the sides of the altar, with which to carry it. He made the altar hollow, out of boards. 38:8 He made the large basin of bronze and its pedestal of bronze from the mirrors of the women who served at the entrance of the tent of meeting. The Construction of the Courtyard 38:9 He made the courtyard. For the south side the hangings of the courtyard were of fine twisted linen, one hundred fifty feet long, 38:10 with their twenty posts and their twenty bronze bases, with the hooks of the posts and their bands of silver. 38:11 For the north side the hangings were one hundred fifty feet, with their twenty posts and their twenty bronze bases, with the hooks of the posts and their bands of silver. 38:12 For the west side there were hangings seventy-five feet long, with their ten posts and their ten bases, with the hooks of the posts and their bands of silver. 38:13 For the east side, toward the sunrise, it was seventy-five feet wide, 38:14 with hangings on one side of the gate that were twenty-two and a half feet long, with their three posts and their three bases, 38:15 and for the second side of the gate of the courtyard, just like the other, the hangings were twenty-two and a half feet long, with their three posts and their three bases. 38:16 All the hangings around the courtyard were of fine twisted linen. 38:17 The bases for the posts were bronze. The hooks of the posts and their bands were silver, their tops were overlaid with silver, and all the posts of the courtyard had silver bands. 38:18 The curtain for the gate of the courtyard was of blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and fine twisted linen, the work of an embroiderer. It was thirty feet long, and like the hangings in the courtyard, it was seven and a half feet high, 38:19 with four posts and their four bronze bases. Their hooks and their bands were silver, and their tops were overlaid with silver. 38:20 All the tent pegs of the tabernacle and of the courtyard all around were bronze. The Materials of the Construction 38:21 This is the inventory of the tabernacle, the tabernacle of the testimony, which was counted by the order of Moses, being the work of the Levites under the direction of Ithamar, son of Aaron the priest. 38:22 Now Bezalel son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah, made everything that the Lord had commanded Moses; 38:23 and with him was Oholiab son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan, an artisan, a designer, and an embroiderer in blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and fine linen. 38:24 All the gold that was used for the work, in all the work of the sanctuary (namely, the gold of the wave offering) was twenty-nine talents and 730 shekels, according to the sanctuary shekel. 38:25 The silver of those who were numbered of the community was one hundred talents and 1,775 shekels, according to the sanctuary shekel, 38:26 one beka per person, that is, a half shekel, according to the sanctuary shekel, for everyone who crossed over to those numbered, from twenty years old or older, 603,550 in all. 38:27 The one hundred talents of silver were used for casting the bases of the sanctuary and the bases of the special curtain -- one hundred bases for one hundred talents, one talent per base. 38:28 From the remaining 1,775 shekels he made hooks for the posts, overlaid their tops, and made bands for them. 38:29 The bronze of the wave offering was seventy talents and 2,400 shekels. 38:30 With it he made the bases for the door of the tent of meeting, the bronze altar, the bronze grating for it, and all the utensils of the altar, 38:31 the bases for the courtyard all around, the bases for the gate of the courtyard, all the tent pegs of the tabernacle, and all the tent pegs of the courtyard all around. Prayer Lord, You have tolerated so much rebellion and been endlessly patient with us, may my life be a sacrifice to You as the ancient Israelites sacrificed to build Your desert tabernacle. Commentary The NET translators estimate that approximately 2,000 pounds of gold were donated and used in the construction of the tabernacle. Silver received at the census of those age 20 and older was approximately 3.75 tons. The detailed, ornate, and valuable nature of design and content of the tabernacle required the finest artisans and materials and the highest attention to excellence as befitted The King of Kings. Interaction Consider this: Much of the gold and silver and other fine resources of wealth that was taken from Egypt in the Exodus was sacrificed to the Lord God for the tabernacle. Discuss this: How impressive must it have been for the artisans to see God working through their hands as He guided the construction of His tabernacle? Reflect on this: The detailed, ornate, and valuable nature of design and content of the tabernacle was not intended to be a model for elite wealthy living nor a goal for those desirous of improving their standard of living, it was to enhance a sense of awe and honor when the people came into the place of sacrifice and worship. Share this: When have you participated in a project that required a high degree of excellence? How did you feel as you watched it come together? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you an opportunity to do something of excellence which will bring glory to Him and blessing to others. Action: Today I will prayerfully, perhaps with the confirmation of a mature fellow believer, discern the guidance of the Holy Spirit and give myself fully to the task of excellence He sets before me. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: *Exodus 39* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Sep 8 20:52:53 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2010 20:52:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] VMware's Maritz virtually pronounces death of Windows Message-ID: <4C882FE5.9000601@lightlink.com> VMware's Maritz virtually pronounces death of Windows It could not have been easy for former Microsoft exec Paul Maritz to pronounce the death of the operating system today.Maritz, who is CEO of VMware, said during his keynote today that... READ FULL STORY -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Sep 9 20:16:18 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:16:18 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Exodus 39 Message-ID: <4C8978D2.5080200@bibleseven.com> Friday *Exodus 39* The Making of the Priestly Garments 39:1 From the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn they made woven garments for serving in the sanctuary; they made holy garments that were for Aaron, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. The Ephod 39:2 He made the ephod of gold, blue, purple, scarlet, and fine twisted linen. 39:3 They hammered the gold into thin sheets and cut it into narrow strips to weave them into the blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, and into the fine linen, the work of an artistic designer. 39:4 They made shoulder pieces for it, attached to two of its corners, so it could be joined together. 39:5 The artistically woven waistband of the ephod that was on it was like it, of one piece with it, of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and fine twisted linen, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 39:6 They set the onyx stones in gold filigree settings, engraved as with the engravings of a seal with the names of the sons of Israel. 39:7 He put them on the shoulder pieces of the ephod as stones of memorial for the Israelites, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. The Breastpiece of Decision 39:8 He made the breastpiece, the work of an artistic designer, in the same fashion as the ephod, of gold, blue, purple, and scarlet, and fine twisted linen. 39:9 It was square -- they made the breastpiece doubled, nine inches long and nine inches wide when doubled. 39:10 They set on it four rows of stones: a row with a ruby, a topaz, and a beryl -- the first row; 39:11 and the second row, a turquoise, a sapphire, and an emerald; 39:12 and the third row, a jacinth, an agate, and an amethyst; 39:13 and the fourth row, a chrysolite, an onyx, and a jasper. They were enclosed in gold filigree settings. 39:14 The stones were for the names of the sons of Israel, twelve, corresponding to the number of their names. Each name corresponding to one of the twelve tribes was like the engravings of a seal. 39:15 They made for the breastpiece braided chains like cords of pure gold, 39:16 and they made two gold filigree settings and two gold rings, and they attached the two rings to the upper two ends of the breastpiece. 39:17 They attached the two gold chains to the two rings at the ends of the breastpiece; 39:18 the other two ends of the two chains they attached to the two settings, and they attached them to the shoulder pieces of the ephod at the front of it. 39:19 They made two rings of gold and put them on the other two ends of the breastpiece on its edge, which is on the inner side of the ephod. 39:20 They made two more gold rings and attached them to the bottom of the two shoulder pieces on the front of the ephod, close to the juncture above the waistband of the ephod. 39:21 They tied the breastpiece by its rings to the rings of the ephod by blue cord, so that it was above the waistband of the ephod, so that the breastpiece would not be loose from the ephod, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. The Other Garments 39:22 He made the robe of the ephod completely blue, the work of a weaver. 39:23 There was an opening in the center of the robe, like the opening of a collar, with an edge all around the opening so that it could not be torn. 39:24 They made pomegranates of blue, purple, and scarlet yarn and twisted linen around the hem of the robe. 39:25 They made bells of pure gold and attached the bells between the pomegranates around the hem of the robe between the pomegranates. 39:26 There was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate, all around the hem of the robe, to be used in ministering, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 39:27 They made tunics of fine linen -- the work of a weaver, for Aaron and for his sons -- 39:28 and the turban of fine linen, the headbands of fine linen, and the undergarments of fine twisted linen. 39:29 The sash was of fine twisted linen and blue, purple, and scarlet yarn, the work of an embroiderer, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 39:30 They made a plate, the holy diadem, of pure gold and wrote on it an inscription, as on the engravings of a seal, "Holiness to the Lord." 39:31 They attached to it a blue cord, to attach it to the turban above, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. Moses Inspects the Sanctuary 39:32 So all the work of the tabernacle, the tent of meeting, was completed, and the Israelites did according to all that the Lord had commanded Moses -- they did it exactly so. 39:33 They brought the tabernacle to Moses, the tent and all its furnishings, clasps, frames, bars, posts, and bases; 39:34 and the coverings of ram skins dyed red, the covering of fine leather, and the protecting curtain; 39:35 the ark of the testimony and its poles, and the atonement lid; 39:36 the table, all its utensils, and the Bread of the Presence; 39:37 the pure lampstand, its lamps, with the lamps set in order, and all its accessories, and oil for the light; 39:38 and the gold altar, and the anointing oil, and the fragrant incense; and the curtain for the entrance to the tent; 39:39 the bronze altar and its bronze grating, its poles, and all its utensils; the large basin with its pedestal; 39:40 the hangings of the courtyard, its posts and its bases, and the curtain for the gateway of the courtyard, its ropes and its tent pegs, and all the furnishings for the service of the tabernacle, for the tent of meeting; 39:41 the woven garments for serving in the sanctuary, the holy garments for Aaron the priest, and the garments for his sons to minister as priests. 39:42 The Israelites did all the work according to all that the Lord had commanded Moses. 39:43 Moses inspected all the work -- and they had done it just as the Lord had commanded -- they had done it exactly -- and Moses blessed them. Prayer Lord, from the pomegranate-shaped ornaments which separated the bells around the hem of Aaron's robe to the pounded-thin gold interweaved with the fine material everything about the tabernacle and the clothing and tools used therein announced the presences of Your majesty. May the words of my mouth and the works of my hands also be of such excellence that they proclaim your royal Lordship in and over me. Commentary The artisans and workers continued their precision work. The text repeatedly notes that each element of their work was as the Lord God had described to Moses; He had left no detail unattended. And so they obediently followed His instructions so that when they brought the tabernacle to him "/... Moses inspected all the work -- and they had done it just as the Lord had commanded -- they had done it exactly -- and Moses blessed them./" Interaction Consider this: The detail and the talent to create that detail is amazing to this day -- one wonders what these people had endured in Egypt, creating fine clothing and furnishings for Pharaoh -- now God redeems that experience to His glory. Discuss this: Imagine Moses inspecting the tabernacle in all of its detail, seeing now the completion of what God had described to him during his time on the mountain -- how might he have verbalized as he looked it all over? Reflect on this: From God's voice to the ears of Moses, and perhaps to papyrus, came 40 days of details and now it has been manufactured in order that a suitable place of meeting between God and His covenant people may exist. Share this: When have you looked upon the fine handiwork of a true artisan and been amazed? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where He has used your gifts and talents, and where He would like to use them again. Action: Today I will celebrate those places, perhaps small and largely unnoticed by humankind (but not missed by God), where He has used my gifts and talents for His purposes. I agree to apply myself to excellence in anything He places before me -- if it is prayer for others because my circumstances limit my physical activity then I will pray earnestly, if it is the use of my voice to teach, my hands to write, or my body to create and work -- I will do it all with excellence because ultimately I am doing it for Him. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be:* Exodus 40* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Sep 10 21:47:17 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2010 21:47:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Exodus 40 Message-ID: <4C8ADFA5.20005@bibleseven.com> Saturday *Exodus 40* Setting Up the Sanctuary 40:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 40:2 "On the first day of the first month you are to set up the tabernacle, the tent of meeting. 40:3 You are to place the ark of the testimony in it and shield the ark with the special curtain. 40:4 You are to bring in the table and set out the things that belong on it; then you are to bring in the lampstand and set up its lamps. 40:5 You are to put the gold altar for incense in front of the ark of the testimony and put the curtain at the entrance to the tabernacle. 40:6 You are to put the altar for the burnt offering in front of the entrance to the tabernacle, the tent of meeting. 40:7 You are to put the large basin between the tent of meeting and the altar and put water in it. 40:8 You are to set up the courtyard around it and put the curtain at the gate of the courtyard. 40:9 And take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle and all that is in it, and sanctify it and all its furnishings, and it will be holy. 40:10 Then you are to anoint the altar for the burnt offering with all its utensils; you are to sanctify the altar, and it will be the most holy altar. 40:11 You must also anoint the large basin and its pedestal, and you are to sanctify it. 40:12 "You are to bring Aaron and his sons to the entrance of the tent of meeting and wash them with water. 40:13 Then you are to clothe Aaron with the holy garments and anoint him and sanctify him so that he may minister as my priest. 40:14 You are to bring his sons and clothe them with tunics 40:15 and anoint them just as you anointed their father, so that they may minister as my priests; their anointing will make them a priesthood that will continue throughout their generations." 40:16 This is what Moses did, according to all the Lord had commanded him -- so he did. 40:17 So the tabernacle was set up on the first day of the first month, in the second year. 40:18 When Moses set up the tabernacle and put its bases in place, he set up its frames, attached its bars, and set up its posts. 40:19 Then he spread the tent over the tabernacle and put the covering of the tent over it, as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:20 He took the testimony and put it in the ark, attached the poles to the ark, and then put the atonement lid on the ark. 40:21 And he brought the ark into the tabernacle, hung the protecting curtain, and shielded the ark of the testimony from view, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:22 And he put the table in the tent of meeting, on the north side of the tabernacle, outside the curtain. 40:23 And he set the bread in order on it before the Lord, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:24 And he put the lampstand in the tent of meeting opposite the table, on the south side of the tabernacle. 40:25 Then he set up the lamps before the Lord, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:26 And he put the gold altar in the tent of meeting in front of the curtain, 40:27 and he burned fragrant incense on it, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:28 Then he put the curtain at the entrance to the tabernacle. 40:29 He also put the altar for the burnt offering by the entrance to the tabernacle, the tent of meeting, and offered on it the burnt offering and the meal offering, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:30 Then he put the large basin between the tent of meeting and the altar and put water in it for washing. 40:31 Moses and Aaron and his sons would wash their hands and their feet from it. 40:32 Whenever they entered the tent of meeting, and whenever they approached the altar, they would wash, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 40:33 And he set up the courtyard around the tabernacle and the altar, and put the curtain at the gate of the courtyard. So Moses finished the work. 40:34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 40:35 Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud settled on it and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle. 40:36 But when the cloud was lifted up from the tabernacle, the Israelites would set out on all their journeys; 40:37 but if the cloud was not lifted up, then they would not journey further until the day it was lifted up. 40:38 For the cloud of the Lord was on the tabernacle by day, but fire would be on it at night, in plain view of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys. Prayer Lord, You set your people free and created a means for them to commune with You, and You did the same for me too. Please find me humbled and grateful. Commentary The Lord God instructed Moses that the first day of the first month was when he was to assemble the items in the tabernacle and prepare Aaron and his sons to serve therein as priests. Numbers provides the context for Exodus 40:2; verse 1:1 "Now the Lord spoke to Moses in the tent of meeting in the wilderness of Sinai on the first day of the second month of the second year after the Israelites departed from the land of Egypt." Therefore this Exodus 40:2 event occurred on the first day of the first month of the second year since their exodus from Egypt. Once Moses had completed the task of preparation "/Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle./" Even "/Moses was not able to enter the tent of meeting because the cloud settled on it and the glory of the Lord filled the tabernacle./" God then used the tabernacle as the ancient version of a GPS and a travel schedule "/But when the cloud was lifted up from the tabernacle, the Israelites would set out on all their journeys; but if the cloud was not lifted up, then they would not journey further until the day it was lifted up. For the cloud of the Lord was on the tabernacle by day, but fire would be on it at night, in plain view of all the house of Israel, throughout all their journeys./" Interaction Consider this: God chose New Year's Day to open His tabernacle. Discuss this: What must it have meant to the confidence and sense of national value to the Israelites to have the Lord God choose to not merely visit them but to dwell among them and to lead them toward the promised land? Reflect on this: God had led, and protected, the Israelites out of Egypt and to the mountain using His presence in a cloud -- He now does that again -- this time with His presence centered on the tabernacle. Share this: When have you experienced a sense of God's special presence in your life? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a way that He has been protecting you and is offering to lead you. Action: Today I will take some time to praise and thank God for His protection. I also commit to prayerfully seek clarity as to His leading; soliciting the prayers in-agreement of one or more mature believers (preferably Biblically-qualified elders) for affirmation/confirmation that I have heard rightly, then acting in obedience to His leading. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Leviticus 1-2 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Sep 11 20:07:52 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 20:07:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Leviticus 1-2 Message-ID: <4C8C19D8.5070500@bibleseven.com> Sunday Leviticus 1-2 Introduction to the Sacrificial Regulations 1:1 Then the Lord called to Moses and spoke to him from the Meeting Tent: 1:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'When someone among you presents an offering to the Lord, you must present your offering from the domesticated animals, either from the herd or from the flock. Burnt Offering Regulations: Animal from the Herd 1:3 "'If his offering is a burnt offering from the herd he must present it as a flawless male; he must present it at the entrance of the Meeting Tent for its acceptance before the Lord. 1:4 He must lay his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted for him to make atonement on his behalf. 1:5 Then the one presenting the offering must slaughter the bull before the Lord, and the sons of Aaron, the priests, must present the blood and splash the blood against the sides of the altar which is at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. 1:6 Next, the one presenting the offering must skin the burnt offering and cut it into parts, 1:7 and the sons of Aaron, the priest, must put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire. 1:8 Then the sons of Aaron, the priests, must arrange the parts with the head and the suet on the wood that is in the fire on the altar. 1:9 Finally, the one presenting the offering must wash its entrails and its legs in water and the priest must offer all of it up in smoke on the altar -- it is a burnt offering, a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. Animal from the Flock 1:10 "'If his offering is from the flock for a burnt offering -- from the sheep or the goats -- he must present a flawless male, 1:11 and must slaughter it on the north side of the altar before the Lord, and the sons of Aaron, the priests, will splash its blood against the altar's sides. 1:12 Next, the one presenting the offering must cut it into parts, with its head and its suet, and the priest must arrange them on the wood which is in the fire, on the altar. 1:13 Then the one presenting the offering must wash the entrails and the legs in water, and the priest must present all of it and offer it up in smoke on the altar -- it is a burnt offering, a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. From the Birds 1:14 "'If his offering to the Lord is a burnt offering from the birds, he must present his offering from the turtledoves or from the young pigeons. 1:15 The priest must present it at the altar, pinch off its head and offer the head up in smoke on the altar, and its blood must be drained out against the side of the altar. 1:16 Then the priest must remove its entrails by cutting off its tail feathers, and throw them to the east side of the altar into the place of fatty ashes, 1:17 and tear it open by its wings without dividing it into two parts. Finally, the priest must offer it up in smoke on the altar on the wood which is in the fire -- it is a burnt offering, a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. Grain Offering Regulations: Offering of Raw Flour 2:1 "'When a person presents a grain offering to the Lord, his offering must consist of choice wheat flour, and he must pour olive oil on it and put frankincense on it. 2:2 Then he must bring it to the sons of Aaron, the priests, and the priest must scoop out from there a handful of its choice wheat flour and some of its olive oil in addition to all of its frankincense, and the priest must offer its memorial portion up in smoke on the altar -- it is a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. 2:3 The remainder of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and to his sons -- it is most holy from the gifts of the Lord. Processed Grain Offerings 2:4 "'When you present an offering of grain baked in an oven, it must be made of choice wheat flour baked into unleavened loaves mixed with olive oil or unleavened wafers smeared with olive oil. 2:5 If your offering is a grain offering made on the griddle, it must be choice wheat flour mixed with olive oil, unleavened. 2:6 Crumble it in pieces and pour olive oil on it -- it is a grain offering. 2:7 If your offering is a grain offering made in a pan, it must be made of choice wheat flour deep fried in olive oil. 2:8 "'You must bring the grain offering that must be made from these to the Lord. Present it to the priest, and he will bring it to the altar. 2:9 Then the priest must take up from the grain offering its memorial portion and offer it up in smoke on the altar -- it is a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. 2:10 The remainder of the grain offering belongs to Aaron and to his sons -- it is most holy from the gifts of the Lord. Additional Grain Offering Regulations 2:11 "'No grain offering which you present to the Lord can be made with yeast, for you must not offer up in smoke any yeast or honey as a gift to the Lord. 2:12 You can present them to the Lord as an offering of first fruit, but they must not go up to the altar for a soothing aroma. 2:13 Moreover, you must season every one of your grain offerings with salt; you must not allow the salt of the covenant of your God to be missing from your grain offering -- on every one of your grain offerings you must present salt. 2:14 "'If you present a grain offering of first ripe grain to the Lord, you must present your grain offering of first ripe grain as soft kernels roasted in fire -- crushed bits of fresh grain. 2:15 And you must put olive oil on it and set frankincense on it -- it is a grain offering. 2:16 Then the priest must offer its memorial portion up in smoke -- some of its crushed bits, some of its olive oil, in addition to all of its frankincense -- it is a gift to the Lord. Prayer Lord, may You find that I pour the same sort of investment and care into my praise and service and worship before You as you required of the ancient Israelites for their tabernacle offerings. Commentary In order to be certain that offerings came with the heart of Abel rather than Cain the Lord God set some high standards: They were to bring animals that they had cared for since birth, or had purchased, not something they went out and killed in the wild. The people needed a real investment in their sacrifice /"... you must present your offering from the domesticated animals"./ Not just any domesticated animal would do, it had to be "/... a flawless male/". The grain offering could not be carelessly chosen from the less-valuable barley but had to be the "/... choice wheat flour/". Together with the grain offering was a physical requirement and a symbolic one, the grain offering was always to be prepared with salt ".../ you must not allow the salt of the covenant of your God to be missing from your grain offering/". And in an echo of the gift of the wise men to Jesus in the manger, the grain offering was to include frankincense, (the NET translators notes "/Frankincense/ refers to the aromatic resin of certain trees, used as a sweet-smelling incense (L&N 6.212).") elsewhere describe as "... an oil derived from the sap of a deciduous tree /Boswellia Thurifera/. Common to the modern nation-states of Somalia, Oman, and Yemen." http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-frankincense.htm Interaction Consider this: It is a matter of a momentary emotional reaction for one to be generous in response to a significant event, be it assisting people after a disaster, or having a part in the construction of the tabernacle. It was a whole different challenge to keep the attention of the Israelites over time; the detailed requirements of the sacrificial system were intended to keep them focused on a holy and awesome God. Discuss this: How exciting must it have been, initially, to learn and to practice the required rituals -- knowing that the Lord God would be receiving them? Reflect on this: How strong must have been the temptation for the less-mature, the more selfish, and the simply lazy to respond with the attitude of Cain and to try to go-cheap on their sacrifices? Share this: When have you had to resist the temptation to give God the leftovers of your gifts, your money, and/or your time? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to pay some closer attention to your heart-condition when approaching God in praise and prayer, study and worship. Action: Today I will humbly accept the challenge of the Holy Spirit as to the careless and/or lazy manner in which I approach Him in praise and prayer, study and worship. I will interpolate (translate from one context to another) the detailed attention to investment and quality of the God-specified tabernacle sacrifice and be more intentional about giving God the best and/or first of my gifts, my money, and my time and not merely my leftovers. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Leviticus 3-4 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat Sep 11 23:53:00 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2010 23:53:00 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Take a few minutes...sit back, relax, and wonder at the majesty of what God has done.... Message-ID: <4C8C4E9C.4070805@lightlink.com> Take a few minutes...sit back, relax, and wonder at the majesty of what God has done.... * http://www.andiesisle.com/creation/magnificent.html* -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Sep 12 15:05:31 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2010 15:05:31 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Leviticus 3-4 Message-ID: <4C8D247B.8080705@bibleseven.com> Monday Leviticus 3-4 Peace Offering Regulations: Animal from the Herd 3:1 "'Now if his offering is a peace offering sacrifice, if he presents an offering from the herd, he must present before the Lord a flawless male or a female. 3:2 He must lay his hand on the head of his offering and slaughter it at the entrance of the Meeting Tent, and the sons of Aaron, the priests, must splash the blood against the altar's sides. 3:3 Then the one presenting the offering must present a gift to the Lord from the peace offering sacrifice: He must remove the fat that covers the entrails and all the fat that surrounds the entrails, 3:4 the two kidneys with the fat on their sinews, and the protruding lobe on the liver (which he is to remove along with the kidneys). 3:5 Then the sons of Aaron must offer it up in smoke on the altar atop the burnt offering that is on the wood in the fire as a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. Animal from the Flock 3:6 "'If his offering for a peace offering sacrifice to the Lord is from the flock, he must present a flawless male or female. 3:7 If he presents a sheep as his offering, he must present it before the Lord. 3:8 He must lay his hand on the head of his offering and slaughter it before the Meeting Tent, and the sons of Aaron must splash its blood against the altar's sides. 3:9 Then he must present a gift to the Lord from the peace offering sacrifice: He must remove all the fatty tail up to the end of the spine, the fat covering the entrails, and all the fat on the entrails, 3:10 the two kidneys with the fat on their sinews, and the protruding lobe on the liver (which he is to remove along with the kidneys). 3:11 Then the priest must offer it up in smoke on the altar as a food gift to the Lord. 3:12 "'If his offering is a goat he must present it before the Lord, 3:13 lay his hand on its head, and slaughter it before the Meeting Tent, and the sons of Aaron must splash its blood against the altar's sides. 3:14 Then he must present from it his offering as a gift to the Lord: the fat which covers the entrails and all the fat on the entrails, 3:15 the two kidneys with the fat on their sinews, and the protruding lobe on the liver (which he is to remove along with the kidneys). 3:16 Then the priest must offer them up in smoke on the altar as a food gift for a soothing aroma -- all the fat belongs to the Lord. 3:17 This is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all the places where you live: You must never eat any fat or any blood.'" Sin Offering Regulations 4:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 4:2 "Tell the Israelites, 'When a person sins by straying unintentionally from any of the Lord's commandments which must not be violated, and violates any one of them -- For the Priest 4:3 "'If the high priest sins so that the people are guilty, on account of the sin he has committed he must present a flawless young bull to the Lord for a sin offering. 4:4 He must bring the bull to the entrance of the Meeting Tent before the Lord, lay his hand on the head of the bull, and slaughter the bull before the Lord. 4:5 Then that high priest must take some of the blood of the bull and bring it to the Meeting Tent. 4:6 The priest must dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of it seven times before the Lord toward the front of the veil-canopy of the sanctuary. 4:7 The priest must put some of the blood on the horns of the altar of fragrant incense that is before the Lord in the Meeting Tent, and all the rest of the bull's blood he must pour out at the base of the altar of burnt offering that is at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. 4:8 "'Then he must take up all the fat from the sin offering bull: the fat covering the entrails and all the fat surrounding the entrails, 4:9 the two kidneys with the fat on their sinews, and the protruding lobe on the liver (which he is to remove along with the kidneys) 4:10 -- just as it is taken from the ox of the peace offering sacrifice -- and the priest must offer them up in smoke on the altar of burnt offering. 4:11 But the hide of the bull, all its flesh along with its head and its legs, its entrails, and its dung -- 4:12 all the rest of the bull -- he must bring outside the camp to a ceremonially clean place, to the fatty ash pile, and he must burn it on a wood fire; it must be burned on the fatty ash pile. For the Whole Congregation 4:13 "'If the whole congregation of Israel strays unintentionally and the matter is not noticed by the assembly, and they violate one of the Lord's commandments, which must not be violated, so they become guilty, 4:14 the assembly must present a young bull for a sin offering when the sin they have committed becomes known. They must bring it before the Meeting Tent, 4:15 the elders of the congregation must lay their hands on the head of the bull before the Lord, and someone must slaughter the bull before the Lord. 4:16 Then the high priest must bring some of the blood of the bull to the Meeting Tent, 4:17 and that priest must dip his finger in the blood and sprinkle some of the blood seven times before the Lord toward the front of the veil-canopy. 4:18 He must put some of the blood on the horns of the altar which is before the Lord in the Meeting Tent, and all the rest of the blood he must pour out at the base of the altar of burnt offering that is at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. 4:19 "'Then the priest must take all its fat and offer the fat up in smoke on the altar. 4:20 He must do with the rest of the bull just as he did with the bull of the sin offering; this is what he must do with it. So the priest will make atonement on their behalf and they will be forgiven. 4:21 He must bring the rest of the bull outside the camp and burn it just as he burned the first bull -- it is the sin offering of the assembly. For the Leader 4:22 "'Whenever a leader, by straying unintentionally, sins and violates one of the commandments of the Lord his God which must not be violated, and he pleads guilty, 4:23 or his sin that he committed is made known to him, he must bring a flawless male goat as his offering. 4:24 He must lay his hand on the head of the male goat and slaughter it in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered before the Lord -- it is a sin offering. 4:25 Then the priest must take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and he must pour out the rest of its blood at the base of the altar of burnt offering. 4:26 Then the priest must offer all of its fat up in smoke on the altar like the fat of the peace offering sacrifice. So the priest will make atonement on his behalf for his sin and he will be forgiven. For the Common Person 4:27 "'If an ordinary individual sins by straying unintentionally when he violates one of the Lord's commandments which must not be violated, and he pleads guilty 4:28 or his sin that he committed is made known to him, he must bring a flawless female goat as his offering for the sin that he committed. 4:29 He must lay his hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter the sin offering in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered. 4:30 Then the priest must take some of its blood with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and he must pour out all the rest of its blood at the base of the altar. 4:31 Then he must remove all of its fat (just as fat was removed from the peace offering sacrifice) and the priest must offer it up in smoke on the altar for a soothing aroma to the Lord. So the priest will make atonement on his behalf and he will be forgiven. 4:32 "'But if he brings a sheep as his offering, for a sin offering, he must bring a flawless female. 4:33 He must lay his hand on the head of the sin offering and slaughter it for a sin offering in the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered. 4:34 Then the priest must take some of the blood of the sin offering with his finger and put it on the horns of the altar of burnt offering, and he must pour out all the rest of its blood at the base of the altar. 4:35 Then the one who brought the offering must remove all its fat (just as the fat of the sheep is removed from the peace offering sacrifice) and the priest must offer them up in smoke on the altar on top of the other gifts of the Lord. So the priest will make atonement on his behalf for his sin which he has committed and he will be forgiven. Prayer Lord, thank You for being an unchanging God from generation to generation, seeking peace with Your children. Commentary The Lord God instructed Moses and Aaron that a "/... peace offering sacrifice/" must be "/... from the flock [or the herd] .../" and must be "/... a flawless male or a female./" The Lord God then addressed the matter of unintentional sin "/When a person sins by straying unintentionally from any of the Lord's commandments which must not be violated, and violates any one of them .../" He made a distinction as to who or whom committed the unintentional sin as follows: "/If the high priest sins so that the people are guilty, on account of the sin he has committed he must present a flawless young bull ..."/ "/If the whole congregation of Israel strays unintentionally and the matter is not noticed by the assembly, and they violate one of the Lord's commandments, which must not be violated, so they become guilty, 4:14 the assembly must present a young bull .../" "/Whenever a leader, by straying unintentionally, sins and violates one of the commandments of the Lord his God which must not be violated, and he pleads guilty, 4:23 or his sin that he committed is made known to him, he must bring a flawless male goat ..."/ "/If an ordinary individual sins by straying unintentionally when he violates one of the Lord's commandments which must not be violated, and he pleads guilty 4:28 or his sin that he committed is made known to him, he must bring a flawless female goat [or sheep] ..."/ Interaction Consider this: It is notable that the peace offering could be a male or female whereas the burnt offering from Lev. 1 could only be a male animal. No explanation of this is provided in the text nor in the NET translators notes. Discuss this: Isn't it an evidence of His perfect attention to detail that God takes the covenant promise of the Israelites to be a holy and priest-led people and then links their unintentional sin and that of their high priest to identical offerings? Reflect on this: It is notable that the sin of the high priest impacted the entire congregation and therefore required the same sacrifice as when the whole congregation sinned unintentionally; however, the leader is treated as an ordinary individual. Share this: When have you unintentionally sinned? How have you made peace with God about that? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where, due to your carelessness and/or ignorance (lack of knowledge or understanding of the Bible or of your circumstances) you have sinned unintentionally. Action: Today I will make peace with God by confessing my unintentional sin, repenting (turning away from) that sin, and asking -- and accepting - His forgiveness. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Leviticus 5-7 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Sep 13 20:20:40 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 20:20:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Leviticus 5-7 Message-ID: <4C8EBFD8.7090305@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Leviticus 5-7 Additional Sin Offering Regulations 5:1 "'When a person sins in that he hears a public curse against one who fails to testify and he is a witness (he either saw or knew what had happened) and he does not make it known, then he will bear his punishment for iniquity. 5:2 Or when there is a person who touches anything ceremonially unclean, whether the carcass of an unclean wild animal, or the carcass of an unclean domesticated animal, or the carcass of an unclean creeping thing, even if he did not realize it, but he himself has become unclean and is guilty; 5:3 or when he touches human uncleanness with regard to anything by which he can become unclean, even if he did not realize it, but he himself has later come to know it and is guilty; 5:4 or when a person swears an oath, speaking thoughtlessly with his lips, whether to do evil or to do good, with regard to anything which the individual might speak thoughtlessly in an oath, even if he did not realize it, but he himself has later come to know it and is guilty with regard to one of these oaths -- 5:5 when an individual becomes guilty with regard to one of these things he must confess how he has sinned, 5:6 and he must bring his penalty for guilt to the Lord for his sin that he has committed, a female from the flock, whether a female sheep or a female goat, for a sin offering. So the priest will make atonement on his behalf for his sin. 5:7 "'If he cannot afford an animal from the flock, he must bring his penalty for guilt for his sin that he has committed, two turtledoves or two young pigeons, to the Lord, one for a sin offering and one for a burnt offering. 5:8 He must bring them to the priest and present first the one that is for a sin offering. The priest must pinch its head at the nape of its neck, but must not sever the head from the body. 5:9 Then he must sprinkle some of the blood of the sin offering on the wall of the altar, and the remainder of the blood must be squeezed out at the base of the altar -- it is a sin offering. 5:10 The second bird he must make a burnt offering according to the standard regulation. So the priest will make atonement on behalf of this person for his sin which he has committed, and he will be forgiven. 5:11 "'If he cannot afford two turtledoves or two young pigeons, he must bring as his offering for his sin which he has committed a tenth of an ephah of choice wheat flour for a sin offering. He must not place olive oil on it and he must not put frankincense on it, because it is a sin offering. 5:12 He must bring it to the priest and the priest must scoop out from it a handful as its memorial portion and offer it up in smoke on the altar on top of the other gifts of the Lord -- it is a sin offering. 5:13 So the priest will make atonement on his behalf for his sin which he has committed by doing one of these things, and he will be forgiven. The remainder of the offering will belong to the priest like the grain offering.'" Guilt Offering Regulations: Known Trespass 5:14 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 5:15 "When a person commits a trespass and sins by straying unintentionally from the regulations about the Lord's holy things, then he must bring his penalty for guilt to the Lord, a flawless ram from the flock, convertible into silver shekels according to the standard of the sanctuary shekel, for a guilt offering. 5:16 And whatever holy thing he violated he must restore and must add one fifth to it and give it to the priest. So the priest will make atonement on his behalf with the guilt offering ram and he will be forgiven." Unknown trespass 5:17 "If a person sins and violates any of the Lord's commandments which must not be violated (although he did not know it at the time, but later realizes he is guilty), then he will bear his punishment for iniquity 5:18 and must bring a flawless ram from the flock, convertible into silver shekels, for a guilt offering to the priest. So the priest will make atonement on his behalf for his error which he committed (although he himself had not known it) and he will be forgiven. 5:19 It is a guilt offering; he was surely guilty before the Lord." Trespass by Deception and False Oath 6:1 (5:20) Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 6:2 "When a person sins and commits a trespass against the Lord by deceiving his fellow citizen in regard to something held in trust, or a pledge, or something stolen, or by extorting something from his fellow citizen, 6:3 or has found something lost and denies it and swears falsely concerning any one of the things that someone might do to sin -- 6:4 when it happens that he sins and he is found guilty, then he must return whatever he had stolen, or whatever he had extorted, or the thing that he had held in trust, or the lost thing that he had found, 6:5 or anything about which he swears falsely. He must restore it in full and add one fifth to it; he must give it to its owner when he is found guilty. 6:6 Then he must bring his guilt offering to the Lord, a flawless ram from the flock, convertible into silver shekels, for a guilt offering to the priest. 6:7 So the priest will make atonement on his behalf before the Lord and he will be forgiven for whatever he has done to become guilty." Sacrificial Instructions for the Priests: The Burnt Offering 6:8 (6:1) Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 6:9 "Command Aaron and his sons, 'This is the law of the burnt offering. The burnt offering is to remain on the hearth on the altar all night until morning, and the fire of the altar must be kept burning on it. 6:10 Then the priest must put on his linen robe and must put linen leggings over his bare flesh, and he must take up the fatty ashes of the burnt offering that the fire consumed on the altar, and he must place them beside the altar. 6:11 Then he must take off his clothes and put on other clothes, and he must bring the fatty ashes outside the camp to a ceremonially clean place, 6:12 but the fire which is on the altar must be kept burning on it. It must not be extinguished. So the priest must kindle wood on it morning by morning, and he must arrange the burnt offering on it and offer the fat of the peace offering up in smoke on it. 6:13 A continual fire must be kept burning on the altar. It must not be extinguished. The Grain Offering of the Common Person 6:14 "'This is the law of the grain offering. The sons of Aaron are to present it before the Lord in front of the altar, 6:15 and the priest must take up with his hand some of the choice wheat flour of the grain offering and some of its olive oil, and all of the frankincense that is on the grain offering, and he must offer its memorial portion up in smoke on the altar as a soothing aroma to the Lord. 6:16 Aaron and his sons are to eat what is left over from it. It must be eaten unleavened in a holy place; they are to eat it in the courtyard of the Meeting Tent. 6:17 It must not be baked with yeast. I have given it as their portion from my gifts. It is most holy, like the sin offering and the guilt offering. 6:18 Every male among the sons of Aaron may eat it. It is a perpetual allotted portion throughout your generations from the gifts of the Lord. Anyone who touches these gifts must be holy.'" The Grain Offering of the Priests 6:19 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 6:20 "This is the offering of Aaron and his sons which they must present to the Lord on the day when he is anointed: a tenth of an ephah of choice wheat flour as a continual grain offering, half of it in the morning and half of it in the evening. 6:21 It must be made with olive oil on a griddle and you must bring it well soaked, so you must present a grain offering of broken pieces as a soothing aroma to the Lord. 6:22 The high priest who succeeds him from among his sons must do it. It is a perpetual statute; it must be offered up in smoke as a whole offering to the Lord. 6:23 Every grain offering of a priest must be a whole offering; it must not be eaten." The Sin Offering 6:24 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 6:25 "Tell Aaron and his sons, 'This is the law of the sin offering. In the place where the burnt offering is slaughtered the sin offering must be slaughtered before the Lord. It is most holy. 6:26 The priest who offers it for sin is to eat it. It must be eaten in a holy place, in the court of the Meeting Tent. 6:27 Anyone who touches its meat must be holy, and whoever spatters some of its blood on a garment, you must wash whatever he spatters it on in a holy place. 6:28 Any clay vessel it is boiled in must be broken, and if it was boiled in a bronze vessel, then that vessel must be rubbed out and rinsed in water. 6:29 Any male among the priests may eat it. It is most holy. 6:30 But any sin offering from which some of its blood is brought into the Meeting Tent to make atonement in the sanctuary must not be eaten. It must be burned up in the fire. The Guilt Offering 7:1 "'This is the law of the guilt offering. It is most holy. 7:2 In the place where they slaughter the burnt offering they must slaughter the guilt offering, and the officiating priest must splash the blood against the altar's sides. 7:3 Then the one making the offering must present all its fat: the fatty tail, the fat covering the entrails, 7:4 the two kidneys and the fat on their sinews, and the protruding lobe on the liver (which he must remove along with the kidneys). 7:5 Then the priest must offer them up in smoke on the altar as a gift to the Lord. It is a guilt offering. 7:6 Any male among the priests may eat it. It must be eaten in a holy place. It is most holy. 7:7 The law is the same for the sin offering and the guilt offering; it belongs to the priest who makes atonement with it. Priestly Portions of Burnt and Grain Offerings 7:8 "'As for the priest who presents someone's burnt offering, the hide of that burnt offering which he presented belongs to him. 7:9 Every grain offering which is baked in the oven or made in the pan or on the griddle belongs to the priest who presented it. 7:10 Every grain offering, whether mixed with olive oil or dry, belongs to all the sons of Aaron, each one alike. The Peace Offering 7:11 "'This is the law of the peace offering sacrifice which he is to present to the Lord. 7:12 If he presents it on account of thanksgiving, along with the thank offering sacrifice he must present unleavened loaves mixed with olive oil, unleavened wafers smeared with olive oil, and well soaked ring-shaped loaves made of choice wheat flour mixed with olive oil. 7:13 He must present this grain offering in addition to ring-shaped loaves of leavened bread which regularly accompany the sacrifice of his thanksgiving peace offering. 7:14 He must present one of each kind of grain offering as a contribution offering to the Lord; it belongs to the priest who splashes the blood of the peace offering. 7:15 The meat of his thanksgiving peace offering must be eaten on the day of his offering; he must not set any of it aside until morning. 7:16 "'If his offering is a votive or freewill sacrifice, it may be eaten on the day he presents his sacrifice, and also the leftovers from it may be eaten on the next day, 7:17 but the leftovers from the meat of the sacrifice must be burned up in the fire on the third day. 7:18 If some of the meat of his peace offering sacrifice is ever eaten on the third day it will not be accepted; it will not be accounted to the one who presented it, since it is spoiled, and the person who eats from it will bear his punishment for iniquity. 7:19 The meat which touches anything ceremonially unclean must not be eaten; it must be burned up in the fire. As for ceremonially clean meat, everyone who is ceremonially clean may eat the meat. 7:20 The person who eats meat from the peace offering sacrifice which belongs to the Lord while his uncleanness persists will be cut off from his people. 7:21 When a person touches anything unclean (whether human uncleanness, or an unclean animal, or an unclean detestable creature) and eats some of the meat of the peace offering sacrifice which belongs to the Lord, that person will be cut off from his people.'" Sacrificial Instructions for the Common People: Fat and Blood 7:22 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 7:23 "Tell the Israelites, 'You must not eat any fat of an ox, sheep, or goat. 7:24 Moreover, the fat of an animal that has died of natural causes and the fat of an animal torn by beasts may be used for any other purpose, but you must certainly never eat it. 7:25 If anyone eats fat from the animal from which he presents a gift to the Lord, that person will be cut off from his people. 7:26 And you must not eat any blood of the birds or the domesticated land animals in any of the places where you live. 7:27 Any person who eats any blood -- that person will be cut off from his people.'" Priestly Portions of Peace Offerings 7:28 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 7:29 "Tell the Israelites, 'The one who presents his peace offering sacrifice to the Lord must bring his offering to the Lord from his peace offering sacrifice. 7:30 With his own hands he must bring the Lord's gifts. He must bring the fat with the breast to wave the breast as a wave offering before the Lord, 7:31 and the priest must offer the fat up in smoke on the altar, but the breast will belong to Aaron and his sons. 7:32 The right thigh you must give as a contribution offering to the priest from your peace offering sacrifices. 7:33 The one from Aaron's sons who presents the blood of the peace offering and fat will have the right thigh as his share, 7:34 for the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the contribution offering I have taken from the Israelites out of their peace offering sacrifices and have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons from the people of Israel as a perpetual allotted portion.'" 7:35 This is the allotment of Aaron and the allotment of his sons from the Lord's gifts on the day Moses presented them to serve as priests to the Lord. 7:36 This is what the Lord commanded to give to them from the Israelites on the day Moses anointed them -- a perpetual allotted portion throughout their generations. Summary of Sacrificial Regulations in Leviticus 6:8-7:36 7:37 This is the law for the burnt offering, the grain offering, the sin offering, the guilt offering, the ordination offering, and the peace offering sacrifice, 7:38 which the Lord commanded Moses on Mount Sinai on the day he commanded the Israelites to present their offerings to the Lord in the wilderness of Sinai. Prayer Lord, You provided for proportional sacrifices to match the violation against You, and You provided for sustenance for the priests who served the people upon Your calling. My I remember Your perfect balance and Your reliable provision. Commentary The principle of proportionality, that is, reasonable sacrifices to match the nature of the offense continued through the Lord God's instructions. The Lord God addressed additional contexts of sin offerings "/... when an individual becomes guilty with regard to one of these things he must //*confess*// how he has sinned, 5:6 and he must //*bring his penalty for guilt*// to the Lord for his sin that he has committed, a female from the flock/" If the person was poor the Lord God provided an appropriate alternative "/If he cannot afford an animal from the flock, he must bring his penalty for guilt for his sin that he has committed, two turtledoves or two young pigeons,/". This text only addressed an alternative to the physical sacrifice, the poor person was still required to confess their sin. If the person was destitute the Lord God offered yet another alternative "/If he cannot afford two turtledoves or two young pigeons, he must bring as his offering for his sin which he has committed a tenth of an ephah of choice wheat flour for a sin offering. He must not place olive oil on it and he must not put frankincense on it, because it is a sin offering./" The NET translators notes explain "The sin offering deals with violations of "any of the commandments," whereas the guilt offering focuses specifically on violations of regulations regarding "holy things" (i.e., things that have been consecrated to the Lord) /.../" The regulations regarding guilt offerings were divided into two categories, the first was for those trespasses where the offender recognized in-the-moment they had sinned "When a person commits a trespass and sins by straying unintentionally from the *regulations about the Lord's holy things*, then he must bring his penalty for guilt to the Lord, a flawless ram from the flock, convertible into silver shekels according to the standard of the sanctuary shekel, for a guilt offering. 5:16 And whatever holy thing he violated he must *restore* and must *add one fifth* to it and give it to the priest. The second was for when the offender recognized after-the-fact that they had sinned, in this case the restoration and one fifth value appears to have been waived, leaving only "./.. a flawless ram from the flock, convertible into silver shekels/" Continuing the practical application of the Commandments, the Lord God's instructions covered cases where the sin was deception and false oath "/When a person sins and commits a trespass against the Lord by deceiving his fellow citizen in regard to something held in trust, or a pledge, or something stolen, or by extorting something from his fellow citizen, 6:3 or has found something lost and denies it and swears falsely concerning any one of the things that someone might do to sin -- 6:4 when it happens that he sins and he is found guilty ... He must //*restore it in full *//and //*add one fifth*// to it; he must give it to its owner when he is found guilty. 6:6 Then he must bring his guilt offering to the Lord, a //*flawless ram from the flock,*// convertible into silver shekels..."/ And one final observation, the Lord God provided for His servants, the priests "/I have taken from the Israelites out of their peace offering sacrifices and have given them to Aaron the priest and to his sons from the people of Israel as a perpetual allotted portion./" Interaction Consider this: We have a God Who has always understood our circumstances and who, unlike humankind, is not legalistic and rigid without regard to proportionality or situation. Discuss this: How loved and understood must the least among the Israelites have felt to hear that the Lord God showed consideration for their lowly financial circumstances? Reflect on this: The Lord God addressed sins against those things that He had required to be placed into service for His purposes related to the tabernacle apart from those things related to the Commandments. Share this: When have you sinned against a Christian, one who has been set-apart by the Lord God as His child, and had a clear sense in the moment -- or later on -- that the sin was more grievous before a holy God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be sinning against the Commandments and/or against those whom He called His children. Action: Today I will faithfully confess then repent of my sins, seek and accept the forgiveness of the Lord, and alter my daily walk in such ways as to avoid the repetition of those sins. I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement with me for these things and will seek the counsel of a Biblically-qualified elder as needed. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Leviticus 8-9 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 14 20:22:18 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:22:18 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Leviticus 8-9 Message-ID: <4C9011BA.9060501@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Leviticus 8-9 Ordination of the Priests 8:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 8:2 "Take Aaron and his sons with him, and the garments, the anointing oil, the sin offering bull, the two rams, and the basket of unleavened bread, 8:3 and assemble the whole congregation at the entrance of the Meeting Tent." 8:4 So Moses did just as the Lord commanded him, and the congregation assembled at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. 8:5 Then Moses said to the congregation: "This is what the Lord has commanded to be done." Clothing Aaron 8:6 So Moses brought Aaron and his sons forward and washed them with water. 8:7 Then he put the tunic on Aaron, wrapped the sash around him, and clothed him with the robe. Next he put the ephod on him and placed on him the decorated band of the ephod, and fastened the ephod closely to him with the band. 8:8 He then set the breastpiece on him and put the Urim and Thummim into the breastpiece. 8:9 Finally, he set the turban on his head and attached the gold plate, the holy diadem, to the front of the turban just as the Lord had commanded Moses. Anointing the Tabernacle and Aaron, and Clothing Aaron's Sons 8:10 Then Moses took the anointing oil and anointed the tabernacle and everything in it, and so consecrated them. 8:11 Next he sprinkled some of it on the altar seven times and so anointed the altar, all its vessels, and the wash basin and its stand to consecrate them. 8:12 He then poured some of the anointing oil on the head of Aaron and anointed him to consecrate him. 8:13 Moses also brought forward Aaron's sons, clothed them with tunics, wrapped sashes around them, and wrapped headbands on them just as the Lord had commanded Moses. Consecration Offerings 8:14 Then he brought near the sin offering bull and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the head of the sin offering bull, 8:15 and he slaughtered it. Moses then took the blood and put it all around on the horns of the altar with his finger and decontaminated the altar, and he poured out the rest of the blood at the base of the altar and so consecrated it to make atonement on it. 8:16 Then he took all the fat on the entrails, the protruding lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and their fat, and Moses offered it all up in smoke on the altar, 8:17 but the rest of the bull -- its hide, its flesh, and its dung -- he completely burned up outside the camp just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 8:18 Then he presented the burnt offering ram and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the head of the ram, 8:19 and he slaughtered it. Moses then splashed the blood against the altar's sides. 8:20 Then he cut the ram into parts, and Moses offered the head, the parts, and the suet up in smoke, 8:21 but the entrails and the legs he washed with water, and Moses offered the whole ram up in smoke on the altar -- it was a burnt offering for a soothing aroma, a gift to the Lord, just as the Lord had commanded Moses. 8:22 Then he presented the second ram, the ram of ordination, and Aaron and his sons laid their hands on the head of the ram 8:23 and he slaughtered it. Moses then took some of its blood and put it on Aaron's right earlobe, on the thumb of his right hand, and on the big toe of his right foot. 8:24 Next he brought Aaron's sons forward, and Moses put some of the blood on their right earlobes, on their right thumbs, and on the big toes of their right feet, and Moses splashed the rest of the blood against the altar's sides. 8:25 Then he took the fat (the fatty tail, all the fat on the entrails, the protruding lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and their fat) and the right thigh, 8:26 and from the basket of unleavened bread that was before the Lord he took one unleavened loaf, one loaf of bread mixed with olive oil, and one wafer, and placed them on the fat parts and on the right thigh. 8:27 He then put all of them on the palms of Aaron and his sons, who waved them as a wave offering before the Lord. 8:28 Moses then took them from their palms and offered them up in smoke on the altar on top of the burnt offering -- they were an ordination offering for a soothing aroma; it was a gift to the Lord. 8:29 Finally, Moses took the breast and waved it as a wave offering before the Lord from the ram of ordination. It was Moses' share just as the Lord had commanded Moses. Anointing Aaron, his Sons, and their Garments 8:30 Then Moses took some of the anointing oil and some of the blood which was on the altar and sprinkled it on Aaron and his garments, and on his sons and his sons' garments with him. So he consecrated Aaron, his garments, and his sons and his sons' garments with him. 8:31 Then Moses said to Aaron and his sons, "Boil the meat at the entrance of the Meeting Tent, and there you are to eat it and the bread which is in the ordination offering basket, just as I have commanded, saying, 'Aaron and his sons are to eat it,' 8:32 but the remainder of the meat and the bread you must burn with fire. 8:33 And you must not go out from the entrance of the Meeting Tent for seven days, until the day when your days of ordination are completed, because you must be ordained over a seven-day period. 8:34 What has been done on this day the Lord has commanded to be done to make atonement for you. 8:35 You must reside at the entrance of the Meeting Tent day and night for seven days and keep the charge of the Lord so that you will not die, for this is what I have been commanded." 8:36 So Aaron and his sons did all the things the Lord had commanded through Moses. Inauguration of Tabernacle Worship 9:1 On the eighth day Moses summoned Aaron and his sons and the elders of Israel, 9:2 and said to Aaron, "Take for yourself a bull calf for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering, both flawless, and present them before the Lord. 9:3 Then tell the Israelites: 'Take a male goat for a sin offering and a calf and lamb, both a year old and flawless, for a burnt offering, 9:4 and an ox and a ram for peace offerings to sacrifice before the Lord, and a grain offering mixed with olive oil, for today the Lord is going to appear to you.'" 9:5 So they took what Moses had commanded to the front of the Meeting Tent and the whole congregation presented them and stood before the Lord. 9:6 Then Moses said, "This is what the Lord has commanded you to do so that the glory of the Lord may appear to you." 9:7 Moses then said to Aaron, "Approach the altar and make your sin offering and your burnt offering, and make atonement on behalf of yourself and on behalf of the people; and also make the people's offering and make atonement on behalf of them just as the Lord has commanded." The Sin Offering for the Priests 9:8 So Aaron approached the altar and slaughtered the sin offering calf which was for himself. 9:9 Then Aaron's sons presented the blood to him and he dipped his finger in the blood and put it on the horns of the altar, and the rest of the blood he poured out at the base of the altar. 9:10 The fat and the kidneys and the protruding lobe of the liver from the sin offering he offered up in smoke on the altar just as the Lord had commanded Moses, 9:11 but the flesh and the hide he completely burned up outside the camp. The Burnt Offering for the Priests 9:12 He then slaughtered the burnt offering, and his sons handed the blood to him and he splashed it against the altar's sides. 9:13 The burnt offering itself they handed to him by its parts, including the head, and he offered them up in smoke on the altar, 9:14 and he washed the entrails and the legs and offered them up in smoke on top of the burnt offering on the altar. The Offerings for the People 9:15 Then he presented the people's offering. He took the sin offering male goat which was for the people, slaughtered it, and performed a decontamination rite with it like the first one. 9:16 He then presented the burnt offering, and did it according to the standard regulation. 9:17 Next he presented the grain offering, filled his hand with some of it, and offered it up in smoke on the altar in addition to the morning burnt offering. 9:18 Then he slaughtered the ox and the ram -- the peace offering sacrifices which were for the people -- and Aaron's sons handed the blood to him and he splashed it against the altar's sides. 9:19 As for the fat parts from the ox and from the ram (the fatty tail, the fat covering the entrails, the kidneys, and the protruding lobe of the liver), 9:20 they set those on the breasts and he offered the fat parts up in smoke on the altar. 9:21 Finally Aaron waved the breasts and the right thigh as a wave offering before the Lord just as Moses had commanded. 9:22 Then Aaron lifted up his hands toward the people and blessed them and descended from making the sin offering, the burnt offering, and the peace offering. 9:23 Moses and Aaron then entered into the Meeting Tent. When they came out, they blessed the people, and the glory of the Lord appeared to all the people. 9:24 Then fire went out from the presence of the Lord and consumed the burnt offering and the fat parts on the altar, and all the people saw it, so they shouted loudly and fell down with their faces to the ground. Prayer Lord, You alone are the object of our praise and worship, and from You alone comes the power which causes us to humble ourselves before You. My I be found humbly subservient to You and to honor and praise no other deceptive exhibition of power from human or spiritual source. Commentary Fulfilling the instructions of Exodus 29:20 "/Moses then took some of its blood and put it on Aaron's right earlobe, on the thumb of his right hand, and on the big toe of his right foot/." The NET translators explain the meaning and purpose of this ritual "By this ritual the priests were set apart completely to the service of God. The ear represented the organ of hearing (as in "ears you have dug" in Ps 40 or "awakens my ear" in Isa 50), and this had to be set apart to God so that they could hear the Word of God. The thumb and the hand represented the instrument to be used for all ministry, and so everything that they "put their hand to" had to be dedicated to God and appropriate for his service. The toe set the foot apart to God, meaning that the walk of the priest had to be consecrated -- where he went, how he conducted himself, what life he lived, all belonged to God now." Moses then brought the wave offering, fulfilling what had been described in Exodus 6:20, Lev. 8:25 "/Then he took the fat (the fatty tail, all the fat on the entrails, the protruding lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and their fat) and the right thigh, 8:26 and from the basket of unleavened bread that was before the Lord he took one unleavened loaf, one loaf of bread mixed with olive oil, and one wafer, and placed them on the fat parts and on the right thigh. 8:27 He then put all of them on the palms of Aaron and his sons, who waved them as a wave offering before the Lord/." The NET translators explain "The ritual of lifting the hands filled with the offering and waving them in the presence of the was designed to symbolize the transfer of the offering to God in the sight of all. This concludes the worshiper's part; the offering now becomes the property of the priest -- his priest's due (or "raised/heave offering")." After all of the required rituals of ordination, consecration, and initial sacrifice had been completed "/Then fire went out from the presence of the Lord and consumed the burnt offering and the fat parts on the altar, and all the people saw it, so they shouted loudly and fell down with their faces to the ground./" Interaction Consider this: The commitment of the priest to God is a precursor to the commitment God expects of every believer; to intentionally make a time and place to hear the Word of God, that everything we do be dedicated to God and appropriate for his service, and that our walk be consecrated -- where we go, how we conduct ourselves, what life we live, all belongs to God. [Note: Much of this is rephrased from the NET translators notes.] Discuss this: Knowing that Aaron had previously allowed himself to be led into the creation of an idol what sort of intense transformation of his walk must have challenged Aaron as a result of this consecration? Reflect on this: When the people saw that God's fire consumed their offering they then knew that He had accepted it -- this is why they /"... shouted loudly and fell down with their faces to the ground./" Share this: When have you made a commitment to the Lord to be in His Word, to dedicate your work to His glory, and to make your walk honoring to Him? How are you doing? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where your walk is bringing honor to God and where it falls short. Action: Today I will commit to the Holy Spirit my partnership in bringing at least one specific area of my walk to a right-place so that it no longer dishonors the One Whose name I bear as a CHRISTian. I will also celebrate with a fellow believer one specific part of my walk where the Holy Spirit has successfully led me to a God-honoring place. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Leviticus 10 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 14 20:29:41 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 20:29:41 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Leviticus 8-9 -- CORRECTION In-Reply-To: <4C9011BA.9060501@bibleseven.com> References: <4C9011BA.9060501@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C901375.4030504@bibleseven.com> CORRECTION: The Exodus 6:20 citation that was in this part of the Wednesday - Leviticus 8-9 Commentary was incorrect, it should be Numbers 6:20 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Moses then brought the wave offering, fulfilling what is described in Numbers 6:20, Lev. 8:25 ?Then he took the fat (the fatty tail, all the fat on the entrails, the protruding lobe of the liver, and the two kidneys and their fat) and the right thigh, 8:26 and from the basket of unleavened bread that was before the Lord he took one unleavened loaf, one loaf of bread mixed with olive oil, and one wafer, and placed them on the fat parts and on the right thigh. 8:27 He then put all of them on the palms of Aaron and his sons, who waved them as a wave offering before the Lord.? The NET translators explain ?The ritual of lifting the hands filled with the offering and waving them in the presence of the was designed to symbolize the transfer of the offering to God in the sight of all. This concludes the worshiper?s part; the offering now becomes the property of the priest ? his priest?s due (or ?raised/heave offering?).? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Sep 15 20:48:43 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 20:48:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Leviticus 10 Message-ID: <4C91696B.2020103@bibleseven.com> Thursday Leviticus 10 Nadab and Abihu 10:1 Then Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, each took his fire pan and put fire in it, set incense on it, and presented strange fire before the Lord, which he had not commanded them to do. 10:2 So fire went out from the presence of the Lord and consumed them so that they died before the Lord. 10:3 Moses then said to Aaron, "This is what the Lord spoke: 'Among the ones close to me I will show myself holy, and in the presence of all the people I will be honored.'" So Aaron kept silent. 10:4 Moses then called to Mishael and Elzaphan, the sons of Uzziel, Aaron's uncle, and said to them, "Come near, carry your brothers away from the front of the sanctuary to a place outside the camp." 10:5 So they came near and carried them away in their tunics to a place outside the camp just as Moses had spoken. 10:6 Then Moses said to Aaron and to Eleazar and Ithamar his other two sons, "Do not dishevel the hair of your heads and do not tear your garments, so that you do not die and so that wrath does not come on the whole congregation. Your brothers, all the house of Israel, are to mourn the burning which the Lord has caused, 10:7 but you must not go out from the entrance of the Meeting Tent lest you die, for the Lord's anointing oil is on you." So they acted according to the word of Moses. Perpetual Statutes the Lord Spoke to Aaron 10:8 Then the Lord spoke to Aaron, 10:9 "Do not drink wine or strong drink, you and your sons with you, when you enter into the Meeting Tent, so that you do not die, which is a perpetual statute throughout your generations, 10:10 as well as to distinguish between the holy and the common, and between the unclean and the clean, 10:11 and to teach the Israelites all the statutes that the Lord has spoken to them through Moses." Perpetual Statutes Moses spoke to Aaron 10:12 Then Moses spoke to Aaron and to Eleazar and Ithamar, his remaining sons, "Take the grain offering which remains from the gifts of the Lord and eat it unleavened beside the altar, for it is most holy. 10:13 You must eat it in a holy place because it is your allotted portion and the allotted portion of your sons from the gifts of the Lord, for this is what I have been commanded. 10:14 Also, the breast of the wave offering and the thigh of the contribution offering you must eat in a ceremonially clean place, you and your sons and daughters with you, for they have been given as your allotted portion and the allotted portion of your sons from the peace offering sacrifices of the Israelites. 10:15 The thigh of the contribution offering and the breast of the wave offering they must bring in addition to the gifts of the fat parts to wave them as a wave offering before the Lord, and it will belong to you and your sons with you for a perpetual statute just as the Lord has commanded." The Problem with the Inaugural Sin Offering 10:16 Later Moses sought diligently for the sin offering male goat, but it had actually been burnt. So he became angry at Eleazar and Ithamar, Aaron's remaining sons, saying, 10:17 "Why did you not eat the sin offering in the sanctuary? For it is most holy and he gave it to you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement on their behalf before the Lord. 10:18 See here! Its blood was not brought into the holy place within! You should certainly have eaten it in the sanctuary just as I commanded!" 10:19 But Aaron spoke to Moses, "See here! Just today they presented their sin offering and their burnt offering before the Lord and such things as these have happened to me! If I had eaten a sin offering today would the Lord have been pleased?" 10:20 When Moses heard this explanation, he was satisfied. Prayer Lord, Your Word is sovereign and when You act in judgment of a wrong we must understand Your perfect holiness and never doubt Your righteousness. Please find me never-forgetting Who You are. Commentary The Lord God had made it very clear what was to be done and what was not to be done in His holy tabernacle. Aaron's sons, Nadab and Abihu, ignored God's instructions and violated the rules -- they were consumed by the fire of God. Moses reminded Aaron of what God had said about presenting Himself holy to the priests so that the priest-led people would honor Him. Aaron therefore remained quiet. Moses instructed Aaron's two sons, Mishael and Elzaphan, to dispose of the bodies outside of the camp. Moses did not allow Aaron or his remaining two sons to participate in the public mourning for his two dead sons -- they had been anointed with oil for service and were required to complete their duties. Moses later chastised Aaron and his sons for not eating the grain offering as-instructed but Aaron explained that the loss of his sons made that improper and that God would understand and Moses relented. Interaction Consider this: Right and wrong, respectful and disrespectful, righteous and unrighteous are defined by the Lord God and we violate those boundaries at our peril. Discuss this: Imagine the anguish of Aaron at the sudden loss of his sons in the very place he would spend the rest of his life in priestly service and then being denied permission to join in the public mourning for them as was the custom. Reflect on this: How fearful must the remaining four brothers have been when it became their turn to serve? Share this: When have you observed someone who had violated a custom, a law, a regulation, or a rule and was confronted with that? Did it cause you to be more careful? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where something you do violates the clearly stated expectations of God. Action: Today I will acknowledge, confess, and repent of what the Holy Spirit has revealed as my violation of His expectations of me. I will request and accept His forgiveness. (It may be something about my regular fellowship with the saints, it may be a failure to be in the Word and prayer and daily reflection, it may be the way I treat others, it may be experimenting with other religions, it may be speaking carelessly and/or disrespectfully of God, it may be some other sin.) Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Leviticus 11 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Sep 16 21:12:09 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2010 21:12:09 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Leviticus 11 Message-ID: <4C92C069.9000304@bibleseven.com> Friday Leviticus 11 Clean and Unclean Land Creatures 11:1 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, saying to them, 11:2 "Tell the Israelites: 'This is the kind of creature you may eat from among all the animals that are on the land. 11:3 You may eat any among the animals that has a divided hoof (the hooves are completely split in two) and that also chews the cud. 11:4 However, you must not eat these from among those that chew the cud and have divided hooves: The camel is unclean to you because it chews the cud even though its hoof is not divided. 11:5 The rock badger is unclean to you because it chews the cud even though its hoof is not divided. 11:6 The hare is unclean to you because it chews the cud even though its hoof is not divided. 11:7 The pig is unclean to you because its hoof is divided (the hoof is completely split in two), even though it does not chew the cud. 11:8 You must not eat from their meat and you must not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you. Clean and Unclean Water Creatures 11:9 "'These you can eat from all creatures that are in the water: Any creatures in the water that have both fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the streams, you may eat. 11:10 But any creatures that do not have both fins and scales, whether in the seas or in the streams, from all the swarming things of the water and from all the living creatures that are in the water, are detestable to you. 11:11 Since they are detestable to you, you must not eat their meat and their carcass you must detest. 11:12 Any creature in the water that does not have both fins and scales is detestable to you. Clean and Unclean Birds 11:13 "'These you are to detest from among the birds -- they must not be eaten, because they are detestable: the griffon vulture, the bearded vulture, the black vulture, 11:14 the kite, the buzzard of any kind, 11:15 every kind of crow, 11:16 the eagle owl, the short-eared owl, the long-eared owl, the hawk of any kind, 11:17 the little owl, the cormorant, the screech owl, 11:18 the white owl, the scops owl, the osprey, 11:19 the stork, the heron of any kind, the hoopoe, and the bat. Clean and Unclean Insects 11:20 "'Every winged swarming thing that walks on all fours is detestable to you. 11:21 However, this you may eat from all the winged swarming things that walk on all fours, which have jointed legs to hop with on the land. 11:22 These you may eat from them: the locust of any kind, the bald locust of any kind, the cricket of any kind, the grasshopper of any kind. 11:23 But any other winged swarming thing that has four legs is detestable to you. Carcass Uncleanness 11:24 "'By these you defile yourselves; anyone who touches their carcass will be unclean until the evening, 11:25 and anyone who carries their carcass must wash his clothes and will be unclean until the evening. Inedible Land Quadrupeds 11:26 "'All animals that divide the hoof but it is not completely split in two and do not chew the cud are unclean to you; anyone who touches them becomes unclean. 11:27 All that walk on their paws among all the creatures that walk on all fours are unclean to you. Anyone who touches their carcass will be unclean until the evening, 11:28 and the one who carries their carcass must wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening; they are unclean to you. Creatures that Swarm on the Land 11:29 "'Now this is what is unclean to you among the swarming things that swarm on the land: the rat, the mouse, the large lizard of any kind, 11:30 the Mediterranean gecko, the spotted lizard, the wall gecko, the skink, and the chameleon. 11:31 These are the ones that are unclean to you among all the swarming things. Anyone who touches them when they die will be unclean until evening. 11:32 Also, anything they fall on when they die will become unclean -- any wood vessel or garment or article of leather or sackcloth. Any such vessel with which work is done must be immersed in water and will be unclean until the evening. Then it will become clean. 11:33 As for any clay vessel they fall into, everything in it will become unclean and you must break it. 11:34 Any food that may be eaten which becomes soaked with water will become unclean. Anything drinkable in any such vessel will become unclean. 11:35 Anything their carcass may fall on will become unclean. An oven or small stove must be smashed to pieces; they are unclean, and they will stay unclean to you. 11:36 However, a spring or a cistern which collects water will be clean, but one who touches their carcass will be unclean. 11:37 Now, if such a carcass falls on any sowing seed which is to be sown, it is clean, 11:38 but if water is put on the seed and such a carcass falls on it, it is unclean to you. Edible Land Quadrupeds 11:39 "'Now if an animal that you may eat dies, whoever touches its carcass will be unclean until the evening. 11:40 One who eats from its carcass must wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening, and whoever carries its carcass must wash his clothes and be unclean until the evening. 11:41 Every swarming thing that swarms on the land is detestable; it must not be eaten. 11:42 You must not eat anything that crawls on its belly or anything that walks on all fours or on any number of legs of all the swarming things that swarm on the land, because they are detestable. 11:43 Do not make yourselves detestable by any of the swarming things. You must not defile yourselves by them and become unclean by them, 11:44 for I am the Lord your God and you are to sanctify yourselves and be holy because I am holy. You must not defile yourselves by any of the swarming things that creep on the ground, 11:45 for I am the Lord who brought you up from the land of Egypt to be your God, and you are to be holy because I am holy. 11:46 This is the law of the land animals, the birds, all the living creatures that move in the water, and all the creatures that swarm on the land, 11:47 to distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between the living creatures that may be eaten and the living creatures that must not be eaten.'" Prayer Lord, You have rightly said that we are to be holy because Your are holy. May I walk respectfully before You. Commentary The Lord God provided Moses with a list of living things that may and may not be eaten, beginning with land-based animals '/This is the kind of creature you may eat from among all the animals that are on the land./" There were two reasons for this list; one was because He knew these animals to be unhealthy, and the other was part of the larger plan to teach the people to make a choice to walk obediently in all things -- even what they ate. Next He defined the water-based creatures "/These you can eat from all creatures that are in the water./" Then He categorized the birds, essentially excluding carrion-birds "/These you are to detest from among the birds./" Most insects were not permitted, but John's favorite with honey -- the grasshopper/locust was acceptable "/Every winged swarming thing that walks on all fours is detestable to you. 11:21 However, this you may eat from all the winged swarming things that walk on all fours, which have jointed legs to hop with on the land. 11:22 These you may eat from them: the locust of any kind, the bald locust of any kind, the cricket of any kind, the grasshopper of any kind. 11:23 But any other winged swarming thing that has four legs is detestable to you./" The ground-dwelling carrion and garbage-eating creatures were also disapproved "/Now this is what is unclean to you among the swarming things that swarm on the land: the rat, the mouse, the large lizard of any kind, 11:30 the Mediterranean gecko, the spotted lizard, the wall gecko, the skink, and the chameleon. 11:31 These are the ones that are unclean to you among all the swarming things./" He concluded with a reminder of the big picture context "/... you are to be holy because I am holy. 11:46 This is the law of the land animals, the birds, all the living creatures that move in the water, and all the creatures that swarm on the land, 11:47 to distinguish between the unclean and the clean, between the living creatures that may be eaten and the living creatures that must not be eaten.'/"" Interaction Consider this: While the people had little understanding of the relationship between health and sickness and much of what they ate, God did, and He provided guidelines as to which creatures were to be avoided. God is never arbitrary or random. Discuss this: How many of the items on God's unclean foods list can you not imagine anyone eating? Reflect on this: The Lord God linked the holiness of His chosen people with a number of things, one was their obedience in the matter of clean and unclean foods. Share this: Which creatures on God's list of unclean foods do you now know to be unhealthy? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the clean and unclean things that enter your body daily, not just through your mouth but through all of your activities and senses. Action: Today I will make a list of things that I avoid because they are "unclean", meaning in the new covenant sense, that they do not build me up in Christ and are also a poor witness to the One Who dwells within me. I will celebrate those things with a fellow Christian. Then I will add at least one new thing to that list, from what the Holy Spirit has disclosed, and intentionally avoid that as well. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Leviticus 12-15 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Sep 17 23:06:49 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2010 23:06:49 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Leviticus 12-15 Message-ID: <4C942CC9.2000004@bibleseven.com> Saturday Leviticus 12-15 Purification of a Woman after Childbirth 12:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 12:2 "Tell the Israelites, 'When a woman produces offspring and bears a male child, she will be unclean seven days, as she is unclean during the days of her menstruation. 12:3 On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin must be circumcised. 12:4 Then she will remain thirty-three days in blood purity. She must not touch anything holy and she must not enter the sanctuary until the days of her purification are fulfilled. 12:5 If she bears a female child, she will be impure fourteen days as during her menstrual flow, and she will remain sixty-six days in blood purity. 12:6 "'When the days of her purification are completed for a son or for a daughter, she must bring a one year old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or turtledove for a sin offering to the entrance of the Meeting Tent, to the priest. 12:7 The priest is to present it before the Lord and make atonement on her behalf, and she will be clean from her flow of blood. This is the law of the one who bears a child, for the male or the female child. 12:8 If she cannot afford a sheep, then she must take two turtledoves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and one for a sin offering, and the priest is to make atonement on her behalf, and she will be clean.'" Infections on the Skin 13:1 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron: 13:2 "When someone has a swelling or a scab or a bright spot on the skin of his body that may become a diseased infection, he must be brought to Aaron the priest or one of his sons, the priests. 13:3 The priest must then examine the infection on the skin of the body, and if the hair in the infection has turned white and the infection appears to be deeper than the skin of the body, then it is a diseased infection, so when the priest examines it he must pronounce the person unclean. A Bright Spot on the Skin 13:4 "If it is a white bright spot on the skin of his body, but it does not appear to be deeper than the skin, and the hair has not turned white, then the priest is to quarantine the person with the infection for seven days. 13:5 The priest must then examine it on the seventh day, and if, as far as he can see, the infection has stayed the same and has not spread on the skin, then the priest is to quarantine the person for another seven days. 13:6 The priest must then examine it again on the seventh day, and if the infection has faded and has not spread on the skin, then the priest is to pronounce the person clean. It is a scab, so he must wash his clothes and be clean. 13:7 If, however, the scab is spreading further on the skin after he has shown himself to the priest for his purification, then he must show himself to the priest a second time. 13:8 The priest must then examine it, and if the scab has spread on the skin, then the priest is to pronounce the person unclean. It is a disease. A Swelling on the Skin 13:9 "When someone has a diseased infection, he must be brought to the priest. 13:10 The priest will then examine it, and if a white swelling is on the skin, it has turned the hair white, and there is raw flesh in the swelling, 13:11 it is a chronic disease on the skin of his body, so the priest is to pronounce him unclean. The priest must not merely quarantine him, for he is unclean. 13:12 If, however, the disease breaks out on the skin so that the disease covers all the skin of the person with the infection from his head to his feet, as far as the priest can see, 13:13 the priest must then examine it, and if the disease covers his whole body, he is to pronounce the person with the infection clean. He has turned all white, so he is clean. 13:14 But whenever raw flesh appears in it he will be unclean, 13:15 so the priest is to examine the raw flesh and pronounce him unclean -- it is diseased. 13:16 If, however, the raw flesh once again turns white, then he must come to the priest. 13:17 The priest will then examine it, and if the infection has turned white, the priest is to pronounce the person with the infection clean -- he is clean. A Boil on the Skin 13:18 "When someone's body has a boil on its skin and it heals, 13:19 and in the place of the boil there is a white swelling or a reddish white bright spot, he must show himself to the priest. 13:20 The priest will then examine it, and if it appears to be deeper than the skin and its hair has turned white, then the priest is to pronounce the person unclean. It is a diseased infection that has broken out in the boil. 13:21 If, however, the priest examines it, and there is no white hair in it, it is not deeper than the skin, and it has faded, then the priest is to quarantine him for seven days. 13:22 If it is spreading further on the skin, then the priest is to pronounce him unclean. It is an infection. 13:23 But if the bright spot stays in its place and has not spread, it is the scar of the boil, so the priest is to pronounce him clean. A Burn on the Skin 13:24 "When a body has a burn on its skin and the raw area of the burn becomes a reddish white or white bright spot, 13:25 the priest must examine it, and if the hair has turned white in the bright spot and it appears to be deeper than the skin, it is a disease that has broken out in the burn. The priest is to pronounce the person unclean. It is a diseased infection. 13:26 If, however, the priest examines it and there is no white hair in the bright spot, it is not deeper than the skin, and it has faded, then the priest is to quarantine him for seven days. 13:27 The priest must then examine it on the seventh day, and if it is spreading further on the skin, then the priest is to pronounce him unclean. It is a diseased infection. 13:28 But if the bright spot stays in its place, has not spread on the skin, and it has faded, then it is the swelling of the burn, so the priest is to pronounce him clean, because it is the scar of the burn. Scall on the Head or in the Beard 13:29 "When a man or a woman has an infection on the head or in the beard, 13:30 the priest is to examine the infection, and if it appears to be deeper than the skin and the hair in it is reddish yellow and thin, then the priest is to pronounce the person unclean. It is scall, a disease of the head or the beard. 13:31 But if the priest examines the scall infection and it does not appear to be deeper than the skin, and there is no black hair in it, then the priest is to quarantine the person with the scall infection for seven days. 13:32 The priest must then examine the infection on the seventh day, and if the scall has not spread, there is no reddish yellow hair in it, and the scall does not appear to be deeper than the skin, 13:33 then the individual is to shave himself, but he must not shave the area affected by the scall, and the priest is to quarantine the person with the scall for another seven days. 13:34 The priest must then examine the scall on the seventh day, and if the scall has not spread on the skin and it does not appear to be deeper than the skin, then the priest is to pronounce him clean. So he is to wash his clothes and be clean. 13:35 If, however, the scall spreads further on the skin after his purification, 13:36 then the priest is to examine it, and if the scall has spread on the skin the priest is not to search further for reddish yellow hair. The person is unclean. 13:37 If, as far as the priest can see, the scall has stayed the same and black hair has sprouted in it, the scall has been healed; the person is clean. So the priest is to pronounce him clean. Bright White Spots on the Skin 13:38 "When a man or a woman has bright spots -- white bright spots -- on the skin of their body, 13:39 the priest is to examine them, and if the bright spots on the skin of their body are faded white, it is a harmless rash that has broken out on the skin. The person is clean. Baldness on the Head 13:40 "When a man's head is bare so that he is balding in back, he is clean. 13:41 If his head is bare on the forehead so that he is balding in front, he is clean. 13:42 But if there is a reddish white infection in the back or front bald area, it is a disease breaking out in his back or front bald area. 13:43 The priest is to examine it, and if the swelling of the infection is reddish white in the back or front bald area like the appearance of a disease on the skin of the body, 13:44 he is a diseased man. He is unclean. The priest must surely pronounce him unclean because of his infection on his head. The Life of the Person with Skin Disease 13:45 "As for the diseased person who has the infection, his clothes must be torn, the hair of his head must be unbound, he must cover his mustache, and he must call out 'Unclean! Unclean!' 13:46 The whole time he has the infection he will be continually unclean. He must live in isolation, and his place of residence must be outside the camp. Infections in Garments, Cloth, or Leather 13:47 "When a garment has a diseased infection in it, whether a wool or linen garment, 13:48 or in the warp or woof of the linen or the wool, or in leather or anything made of leather, 13:49 if the infection in the garment or leather or warp or woof or any article of leather is yellowish green or reddish, it is a diseased infection and it must be shown to the priest. 13:50 The priest is to examine and then quarantine the article with the infection for seven days. 13:51 He must then examine the infection on the seventh day. If the infection has spread in the garment, or in the warp, or in the woof, or in the leather -- whatever the article into which the leather was made -- the infection is a malignant disease. It is unclean. 13:52 He must burn the garment or the warp or the woof, whether wool or linen, or any article of leather which has the infection in it. Because it is a malignant disease it must be burned up in the fire. 13:53 But if the priest examines it and the infection has not spread in the garment or in the warp or in the woof or in any article of leather, 13:54 the priest is to command that they wash whatever has the infection and quarantine it for another seven days. 13:55 The priest must then examine it after the infection has been washed out, and if the infection has not changed its appearance even though the infection has not spread, it is unclean. You must burn it up in the fire. It is a fungus, whether on the back side or front side of the article. 13:56 But if the priest has examined it and the infection has faded after it has been washed, he is to tear it out of the garment or the leather or the warp or the woof. 13:57 Then if it still appears again in the garment or the warp or the woof, or in any article of leather, it is an outbreak. Whatever has the infection in it you must burn up in the fire. 13:58 But the garment or the warp or the woof or any article of leather which you wash and infection disappears from it is to be washed a second time and it will be clean." Summary of Infection Regulations 13:59 This is the law of the diseased infection in the garment of wool or linen, or the warp or woof, or any article of leather, for pronouncing it clean or unclean. Purification of Diseased Skin Infections 14:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 14:2 "This is the law of the diseased person on the day of his purification, when he is brought to the priest. 14:3 The priest is to go outside the camp and examine the infection. If the infection of the diseased person has been healed, 14:4 then the priest will command that two live clean birds, a piece of cedar wood, a scrap of crimson fabric, and some twigs of hyssop be taken up for the one being cleansed. 14:5 The priest will then command that one bird be slaughtered into a clay vessel over fresh water. 14:6 Then he is to take the live bird along with the piece of cedar wood, the scrap of crimson fabric, and the twigs of hyssop, and he is to dip them and the live bird in the blood of the bird slaughtered over the fresh water, 14:7 and sprinkle it seven times on the one being cleansed from the disease, pronounce him clean, and send the live bird away over the open countryside. The Seven Days of Purification 14:8 "The one being cleansed must then wash his clothes, shave off all his hair, and bathe in water, and so be clean. Then afterward he may enter the camp, but he must live outside his tent seven days. 14:9 When the seventh day comes he must shave all his hair -- his head, his beard, his eyebrows, all his hair -- and he must wash his clothes, bathe his body in water, and so be clean. The Eighth Day Atonement Rituals 14:10 "On the eighth day he must take two flawless male lambs, one flawless yearling female lamb, three-tenths of an ephah of choice wheat flour as a grain offering mixed with olive oil, and one log of olive oil, 14:11 and the priest who pronounces him clean will have the man who is being cleansed stand along with these offerings before the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent. 14:12 "The priest is to take one male lamb and present it for a guilt offering along with the log of olive oil and present them as a wave offering before the Lord. 14:13 He must then slaughter the male lamb in the place where the sin offering and the burnt offering are slaughtered, in the sanctuary, because, like the sin offering, the guilt offering belongs to the priest; it is most holy. 14:14 Then the priest is to take some of the blood of the guilt offering and put it on the right earlobe of the one being cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand, and on the big toe of his right foot. 14:15 The priest will then take some of the log of olive oil and pour it into his own left hand. 14:16 Then the priest is to dip his right forefinger into the olive oil that is in his left hand, and sprinkle some of the olive oil with his finger seven times before the Lord. 14:17 The priest will then put some of the rest of the olive oil that is in his hand on the right earlobe of the one being cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand, and on the big toe of his right foot, on the blood of the guilt offering, 14:18 and the remainder of the olive oil that is in his hand the priest is to put on the head of the one being cleansed. So the priest is to make atonement for him before the Lord. 14:19 "The priest must then perform the sin offering and make atonement for the one being cleansed from his impurity. After that he is to slaughter the burnt offering, 14:20 and the priest is to offer the burnt offering and the grain offering on the altar. So the priest is to make atonement for him and he will be clean. The Eighth Day Atonement Rituals for the Poor Person 14:21 "If the person is poor and does not have sufficient means, he must take one male lamb as a guilt offering for a wave offering to make atonement for himself, one-tenth of an ephah of choice wheat flour mixed with olive oil for a grain offering, a log of olive oil, 14:22 and two turtledoves or two young pigeons, which are within his means. One will be a sin offering and the other a burnt offering. 14:23 "On the eighth day he must bring them for his purification to the priest at the entrance of the Meeting Tent before the Lord, 14:24 and the priest is to take the male lamb of the guilt offering and the log of olive oil and wave them as a wave offering before the Lord. 14:25 Then he is to slaughter the male lamb of the guilt offering, and the priest is to take some of the blood of the guilt offering and put it on the right earlobe of the one being cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand, and on the big toe of his right foot. 14:26 The priest will then pour some of the olive oil into his own left hand, 14:27 and sprinkle some of the olive oil that is in his left hand with his right forefinger seven times before the Lord. 14:28 Then the priest is to put some of the olive oil that is in his hand on the right earlobe of the one being cleansed, on the thumb of his right hand, and on the big toe of his right foot, on the place of the blood of the guilt offering, 14:29 and the remainder of the olive oil that is in the hand of the priest he is to put on the head of the one being cleansed to make atonement for him before the Lord. 14:30 "He will then make one of the turtledoves or young pigeons, which are within his means, 14:31 a sin offering and the other a burnt offering along with the grain offering. So the priest is to make atonement for the one being cleansed before the Lord. 14:32 This is the law of the one in whom there is a diseased infection, who does not have sufficient means for his purification." Purification of Disease-Infected Houses 14:33 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron: 14:34 "When you enter the land of Canaan which I am about to give to you for a possession, and I put a diseased infection in a house in the land you are to possess, 14:35 then whoever owns the house must come and declare to the priest, 'Something like an infection is visible to me in the house.' 14:36 Then the priest will command that the house be cleared before the priest enters to examine the infection so that everything in the house does not become unclean, and afterward the priest will enter to examine the house. 14:37 He is to examine the infection, and if the infection in the walls of the house consists of yellowish green or reddish eruptions, and it appears to be deeper than the surface of the wall, 14:38 then the priest is to go out of the house to the doorway of the house and quarantine the house for seven days. 14:39 The priest must return on the seventh day and examine it, and if the infection has spread in the walls of the house, 14:40 then the priest is to command that the stones that had the infection in them be pulled and thrown outside the city into an unclean place. 14:41 Then he is to have the house scraped all around on the inside, and the plaster which is scraped off must be dumped outside the city into an unclean place. 14:42 They are then to take other stones and replace those stones, and he is to take other plaster and replaster the house. 14:43 "If the infection returns and breaks out in the house after he has pulled out the stones, scraped the house, and it is replastered, 14:44 the priest is to come and examine it, and if the infection has spread in the house, it is a malignant disease in the house. It is unclean. 14:45 He must tear down the house, its stones, its wood, and all the plaster of the house, and bring all of it outside the city to an unclean place. 14:46 Anyone who enters the house all the days the priest has quarantined it will be unclean until evening. 14:47 Anyone who lies down in the house must wash his clothes. Anyone who eats in the house must wash his clothes. 14:48 "If, however, the priest enters and examines it, and the infection has not spread in the house after the house has been replastered, then the priest is to pronounce the house clean because the infection has been healed. 14:49 Then he is to take two birds, a piece of cedar wood, a scrap of crimson fabric, and some twigs of hyssop to decontaminate the house, 14:50 and he is to slaughter one bird into a clay vessel over fresh water. 14:51 He must then take the piece of cedar wood, the twigs of hyssop, the scrap of crimson fabric, and the live bird, and dip them in the blood of the slaughtered bird and in the fresh water, and sprinkle the house seven times. 14:52 So he is to decontaminate the house with the blood of the bird, the fresh water, the live bird, the piece of cedar wood, the twigs of hyssop, and the scrap of crimson fabric, 14:53 and he is to send the live bird away outside the city into the open countryside. So he is to make atonement for the house and it will be clean. Summary of Purification Regulations for Infections 14:54 "This is the law for all diseased infections, for scall, 14:55 for the diseased garment, for the house, 14:56 for the swelling, for the scab, and for the bright spot, 14:57 to teach when something is unclean and when it is clean. This is the law for dealing with infectious disease." Male Bodily Discharges 15:1 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron: 15:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'When any man has a discharge from his body, his discharge is unclean. 15:3 Now this is his uncleanness in regard to his discharge -- whether his body secretes his discharge or blocks his discharge, he is unclean. All the days that his body has a discharge or his body blocks his discharge, this is his uncleanness. 15:4 "'Any bed the man with a discharge lies on will be unclean, and any furniture he sits on will be unclean. 15:5 Anyone who touches his bed must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:6 The one who sits on the furniture the man with a discharge sits on must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:7 The one who touches the body of the man with a discharge must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:8 If the man with a discharge spits on a person who is ceremonially clean, that person must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:9 Any means of riding the man with a discharge rides on will be unclean. 15:10 Anyone who touches anything that was under him will be unclean until evening, and the one who carries those items must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:11 Anyone whom the man with the discharge touches without having rinsed his hands in water must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:12 A clay vessel which the man with the discharge touches must be broken, and any wooden utensil must be rinsed in water. Purity Regulations for Male Bodily Discharges 15:13 "'When the man with the discharge becomes clean from his discharge he is to count off for himself seven days for his purification, and he must wash his clothes, bathe in fresh water, and be clean. 15:14 Then on the eighth day he is to take for himself two turtledoves or two young pigeons, and he is to present himself before the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent and give them to the priest, 15:15 and the priest is to make one of them a sin offering and the other a burnt offering. So the priest is to make atonement for him before the Lord for his discharge. 15:16 "'When a man has a seminal emission, he must bathe his whole body in water and be unclean until evening, 15:17 and he must wash in water any clothing or leather that has semen on it, and it will be unclean until evening. 15:18 When a man has sexual intercourse with a woman and there is a seminal emission, they must bathe in water and be unclean until evening. Female Bodily Discharges 15:19 "'When a woman has a discharge and her discharge is blood from her body, she is to be in her menstruation seven days, and anyone who touches her will be unclean until evening. 15:20 Anything she lies on during her menstruation will be unclean, and anything she sits on will be unclean. 15:21 Anyone who touches her bed must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:22 Anyone who touches any furniture she sits on must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. 15:23 If there is something on the bed or on the furniture she sits on, when he touches it he will be unclean until evening, 15:24 and if a man actually has sexual intercourse with her so that her menstrual impurity touches him, then he will be unclean seven days and any bed he lies on will be unclean. 15:25 "'When a woman's discharge of blood flows many days not at the time of her menstruation, or if it flows beyond the time of her menstruation, all the days of her discharge of impurity will be like the days of her menstruation -- she is unclean. 15:26 Any bed she lies on all the days of her discharge will be to her like the bed of her menstruation, any furniture she sits on will be unclean like the impurity of her menstruation, 15:27 and anyone who touches them will be unclean, and he must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening. Purity Regulations from Female Bodily Discharges 15:28 "'If she becomes clean from her discharge, then she is to count off for herself seven days, and afterward she will be clean. 15:29 Then on the eighth day she must take for herself two turtledoves or two young pigeons and she must bring them to the priest at the entrance of the Meeting Tent, 15:30 and the priest is to make one a sin offering and the other a burnt offering. So the priest is to make atonement for her before the Lord from her discharge of impurity. Summary of Purification Regulations for Bodily Discharges 15:31 "'Thus you are to set the Israelites apart from their impurity so that they do not die in their impurity by defiling my tabernacle which is in their midst. 15:32 This is the law of the one with a discharge: the one who has a seminal emission and becomes unclean by it, 15:33 the one who is sick in her menstruation, the one with a discharge, whether male or female, and a man who has sexual intercourse with an unclean woman.'" Prayer Lord, Your knowledge and understanding of all things is perfect and You share that knowledge generously with Your people. Commentary We observed in an earlier part of the OT studies that the eight day of life is when the Vitamin K levels, a natural clotting agent, peaks in a child -- so circumcision is best performed then. The Israelites could not have known this but the Lord God did. The NET translators share some of the speculations as to why the periods of uncleanliness differ between the birthing of a male versus a female child, we may wish to consider yet another explanation. While a male fetus requires large amounts of testosterone to transform the always initially-female fetus to a male, testosterone that the mother doesn't require, the female fetus is demanding progesterone from the mother -- perhaps depleting it and unbalancing her system -- creating the need for a longer period of "blood purity". (This is mere speculation based on casual conversations with medical people and some past reading of books related to human fetal development -- which are not cited here as they are not immediately available.) The Lord God then addressed the management of diseased infections in a scientifically-sound, for the ancient context, manner -- consistent with His treatment of foods and child birth. Interaction Consider this: Despite the ravages of the Fall the human body was still perfectly understood by the Lord God. Discuss this: Over a million people in a mobile community represents a challenging environment for sanitation, imagine the problems were the Lord God to not have created such a highly disciplined system for health monitoring and sanitation? Reflect on this: Perhaps modern medical science might benefit from a new look at God's Word? Share this: When have you been faced with a difficult challenge and unexpectedly, according to worldly expectations, found the answer in God's Word? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where something in this text may apply to your management of dietary or other health-related matters. Action: Today I will accept the prompting of the Holy Spirit to ask some questions of myself and the medical-science community as to the possible solution of a nagging health problem that may be related to something I am doing (or failing to do) and/or that I am ingesting (breathing, drinking, or eating). Be Specific ______________________________________________________ *Sunday's text will be: Leviticus 16-17* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat Sep 18 16:49:43 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:49:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Microsoft tea party against open source | ZDNet Message-ID: <4C9525E7.5060609@lightlink.com> If you have made your career drinking the corporate Kool-Aid (and Redmond can be pretty isolated from the rest of the computing universe) what's going on in the market these days can seem absolutely maddening. Hence the crazy. http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tea-party-against-open-source/7387?tag=nl.e539 -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Sep 18 20:23:57 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 20:23:57 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Leviticus 16-17 Message-ID: <4C95581D.1010203@bibleseven.com> Sunday Leviticus 16-17 The Day of Atonement 16:1 The Lord spoke to Moses after the death of Aaron's two sons when they approached the presence of the Lord and died, 16:2 and the Lord said to Moses: "Tell Aaron your brother that he must not enter at any time into the holy place inside the veil-canopy in front of the atonement plate that is on the ark so that he may not die, for I will appear in the cloud over the atonement plate. Day of Atonement Offerings 16:3 "In this way Aaron is to enter into the sanctuary -- with a young bull for a sin offering and a ram for a burnt offering. 16:4 He must put on a holy linen tunic, linen leggings are to cover his body, and he is to wrap himself with a linen sash and wrap his head with a linen turban. They are holy garments, so he must bathe his body in water and put them on. 16:5 He must also take two male goats from the congregation of the Israelites for a sin offering and one ram for a burnt offering. 16:6 Then Aaron is to present the sin offering bull which is for himself and is to make atonement on behalf of himself and his household. 16:7 He must then take the two goats and stand them before the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent, 16:8 and Aaron is to cast lots over the two goats, one lot for the Lord and one lot for Azazel. 16:9 Aaron must then present the goat which has been designated by lot for the Lord, and he is to make it a sin offering, 16:10 but the goat which has been designated by lot for Azazel is to be stood alive before the Lord to make atonement on it by sending it away to Azazel into the wilderness. The Sin Offering Sacrificial Procedures 16:11 "Aaron is to present the sin offering bull which is for himself, and he is to make atonement on behalf of himself and his household. He is to slaughter the sin offering bull which is for himself, 16:12 and take a censer full of coals of fire from the altar before the Lord and a full double handful of finely ground fragrant incense, and bring them inside the veil-canopy. 16:13 He must then put the incense on the fire before the Lord, and the cloud of incense will cover the atonement plate which is above the ark of the testimony, so that he will not die. 16:14 Then he is to take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the eastern face of the atonement plate, and in front of the atonement plate he is to sprinkle some of the blood seven times with his finger. 16:15 "He must then slaughter the sin offering goat which is for the people. He is to bring its blood inside the veil-canopy, and he is to do with its blood just as he did to the blood of the bull: He is to sprinkle it on the atonement plate and in front of the atonement plate. 16:16 So he is to make atonement for the holy place from the impurities of the Israelites and from their transgressions with regard to all their sins, and thus he is to do for the Meeting Tent which resides with them in the midst of their impurities. 16:17 Nobody is to be in the Meeting Tent when he enters to make atonement in the holy place until he goes out, and he has made atonement on his behalf, on behalf of his household, and on behalf of the whole assembly of Israel. 16:18 "Then he is to go out to the altar which is before the Lord and make atonement for it. He is to take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it all around on the horns of the altar. 16:19 Then he is to sprinkle on it some of the blood with his finger seven times, and cleanse and consecrate it from the impurities of the Israelites. The Live Goat Ritual Procedures 16:20 "When he has finished purifying the holy place, the Meeting Tent, and the altar, he is to present the live goat. 16:21 Aaron is to lay his two hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the iniquities of the Israelites and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins, and thus he is to put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man standing ready. 16:22 The goat is to bear on itself all their iniquities into an inaccessible land, so he is to send the goat away in the wilderness. The Concluding Rituals 16:23 "Aaron must then enter the Meeting Tent and take off the linen garments which he had put on when he entered the sanctuary, and leave them there. 16:24 Then he must bathe his body in water in a holy place, put on his clothes, and go out and make his burnt offering and the people's burnt offering. So he is to make atonement on behalf of himself and the people. 16:25 "Then he is to offer up the fat of the sin offering in smoke on the altar, 16:26 and the one who sent the goat away to Azazel must wash his clothes, bathe his body in water, and afterward he may reenter the camp. 16:27 The bull of the sin offering and the goat of the sin offering, whose blood was brought to make atonement in the holy place, must be brought outside the camp and their hide, their flesh, and their dung must be burned up, 16:28 and the one who burns them must wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may reenter the camp. Review of the Day of Atonement 16:29 "This is to be a perpetual statute for you. In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you must humble yourselves and do no work of any kind, both the native citizen and the foreigner who resides in your midst, 16:30 for on this day atonement is to be made for you to cleanse you from all your sins; you must be clean before the Lord. 16:31 It is to be a Sabbath of complete rest for you, and you must humble yourselves. It is a perpetual statute. 16:32 "The priest who is anointed and ordained to act as high priest in place of his father is to make atonement. He is to put on the linen garments, the holy garments, 16:33 and he is to purify the Most Holy Place, he is to purify the Meeting Tent and the altar, and he is to make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. 16:34 This is to be a perpetual statute for you to make atonement for the Israelites for all their sins once a year." So he did just as the Lord had commanded Moses. The Slaughter of Animals 17:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 17:2 "Speak to Aaron, his sons, and all the Israelites, and tell them: 'This is the word that the Lord has commanded: 17:3 "Blood guilt will be accounted to any man from the house of Israel who slaughters an ox or a lamb or a goat inside the camp or outside the camp, 17:4 but has not brought it to the entrance of the Meeting Tent to present it as an offering to the Lord before the tabernacle of the Lord. He has shed blood, so that man will be cut off from the midst of his people. 17:5 This is so that the Israelites will bring their sacrifices that they are sacrificing in the open field to the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent to the priest and sacrifice them there as peace offering sacrifices to the Lord. 17:6 The priest is to splash the blood on the altar of the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent, and offer the fat up in smoke for a soothing aroma to the Lord. 17:7 So they must no longer offer their sacrifices to the goat demons, acting like prostitutes by going after them. This is to be a perpetual statute for them throughout their generations. 17:8 "You are to say to them: 'Any man from the house of Israel or from the foreigners who reside in their midst, who offers a burnt offering or a sacrifice 17:9 but does not bring it to the entrance of the Meeting Tent to offer it to the Lord -- that person will be cut off from his people. Prohibition against Eating Blood 17:10 "'Any man from the house of Israel or from the foreigners who reside in their midst who eats any blood, I will set my face against that person who eats the blood, and I will cut him off from the midst of his people, 17:11 for the life of every living thing is in the blood. So I myself have assigned it to you on the altar to make atonement for your lives, for the blood makes atonement by means of the life. 17:12 Therefore, I have said to the Israelites: No person among you is to eat blood, and no resident foreigner who lives among you is to eat blood. 17:13 "'Any man from the Israelites or from the foreigners who reside in their midst who hunts a wild animal or a bird that may be eaten must pour out its blood and cover it with soil, 17:14 for the life of all flesh is its blood. So I have said to the Israelites: You must not eat the blood of any living thing because the life of every living thing is its blood -- all who eat it will be cut off. Regulations for Eating Carcasses 17:15 "'Any person who eats an animal that has died of natural causes or an animal torn by beasts, whether a native citizen or a foreigner, must wash his clothes, bathe in water, and be unclean until evening; then he becomes clean. 17:16 But if he does not wash his clothes and does not bathe his body, he will bear his punishment for iniquity.'" Prayer Lord, You provided for us One to bear our iniquities by coming in human form to be our sacrifice and our redeemer. May I be found endlessly thankful. Commentary Lev. 16:8-10 refers to Azazel, which appears to be a word-play describing the concept of one bearing the iniquity of another. The combination found in this text of the sacrifice of one goat to God and another one sent away, is in keeping with the pattern found in Lev. 14:5-7 and 16:21-22 "/14:5 The priest will then command that one bird be slaughtered into a clay vessel over fresh water. 14:6 Then he is to take the live bird along with the piece of cedar wood, the scrap of crimson fabric, and the twigs of hyssop, and he is to dip them and the live bird in the blood of the bird slaughtered over the fresh water, 14:7 and sprinkle it seven times on the one being cleansed from the disease, pronounce him clean, and send the live bird away over the open countryside."/ "/16:21 Aaron is to lay his two hands on the head of the live goat and confess over it all the iniquities of the Israelites and all their transgressions in regard to all their sins, and thus he is to put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man standing ready. 16:22 The goat is to bear on itself all their iniquities into an inaccessible land, so he is to send the goat away in the wilderness."/ While the NET translators notes observe that there has been much speculation as to subtle meanings it is probably poor scholarship to read-in more than what was also the intended purpose of those two similar occasions -- recorded before and after the Azazel reference. When Aaron makes the sacrifice of atonement he does so for himself, his family, and for all of the people. The high priest was never set apart by the Lord God as somehow above the people in his imperfections and need to make appropriate sacrifice to God. The Lord God required that blood not be eaten. He also required that when a wild animal or bird is killed for food its blood be poured out and covered with dirt. This was both a matter of health and or teaching a powerful symbolic message about the source of life -- a symbolism that was used for understanding of the work of Jesus on the Cross. Interaction Consider this: We have a modern term for one who bears the iniquities of another "scapegoat". Discuss this: Where blood was a symbol of life, do you see a linkage between life coming from the soil in Genesis and then being returned to the soil here in Leviticus? Reflect on this: Many pagan rituals, then and now, included and include the ritual drinking of blood. The notion was to imagine the gaining of some sort of power, or the transfer of some sort of spiritual presence, all of which was in opposition to the teaching of the Lord God. Share this: When have you observed someone in the unfortunate role of a scapegoat? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where the lines are being blurred between the clear message of the Bible that God is the source of life and that all life belongs to him and pagan teaching that misuses blood and blood-images to imply God-like power in the hands of humans and spiritual beings other than God. Action: Today I will acknowledge the lie of the enemy in blurring the line between the Lord God as sovereign over life and false paganism slipping into the lives of believers. I will purge anything that lends itself to the subtle misinformation of the enemy -- remembering that this is the same lie he used to deceive Eve. I will ask a fellow believer to pray and to reflect with me about this and agree to surrender to the Holy Spirit and to partner with a fellow believer in keeping these deceptions out of my life. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Leviticus 18 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Sep 19 20:21:26 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:21:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Leviticus 18 Message-ID: <4C96A906.5020305@bibleseven.com> Monday Leviticus 18 Exhortation to Obedience and Life 18:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 18:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'I am the Lord your God! 18:3 You must not do as they do in the land of Egypt where you have been living, and you must not do as they do in the land of Canaan into which I am about to bring you; you must not walk in their statutes. 18:4 You must observe my regulations and you must be sure to walk in my statutes. I am the Lord your God. 18:5 So you must keep my statutes and my regulations; anyone who does so will live by keeping them. I am the Lord. Laws of Sexual Relations 18:6 "'No man is to approach any close relative to have sexual intercourse with her. I am the Lord. 18:7 You must not expose your father's nakedness by having sexual intercourse with your mother. She is your mother; you must not have intercourse with her. 18:8 You must not have sexual intercourse with your father's wife; she is your father's nakedness. 18:9 You must not have sexual intercourse with your sister, whether she is your father's daughter or your mother's daughter, whether she is born in the same household or born outside it; you must not have sexual intercourse with either of them. 18:10 You must not expose the nakedness of your son's daughter or your daughter's daughter by having sexual intercourse with them, because they are your own nakedness. 18:11 You must not have sexual intercourse with the daughter of your father's wife born of your father; she is your sister. You must not have intercourse with her. 18:12 You must not have sexual intercourse with your father's sister; she is your father's flesh. 18:13 You must not have sexual intercourse with your mother's sister, because she is your mother's flesh. 18:14 You must not expose the nakedness of your father's brother; you must not approach his wife to have sexual intercourse with her. She is your aunt. 18:15 You must not have sexual intercourse with your daughter-in-law; she is your son's wife. You must not have intercourse with her. 18:16 You must not have sexual intercourse with your brother's wife; she is your brother's nakedness. 18:17 You must not have sexual intercourse with both a woman and her daughter; you must not take as wife either her son's daughter or her daughter's daughter to have intercourse with them. They are closely related to her -- it is lewdness. 18:18 You must not take a woman in marriage and then marry her sister as a rival wife while she is still alive, to have sexual intercourse with her. 18:19 "'You must not approach a woman in her menstrual impurity to have sexual intercourse with her. 18:20 You must not have sexual intercourse with the wife of your fellow citizen to become unclean with her. 18:21 You must not give any of your children as an offering to Molech, so that you do not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord! 18:22 You must not have sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman; it is a detestable act. 18:23 You must not have sexual intercourse with any animal to become defiled with it, and a woman must not stand before an animal to have sexual intercourse with it; it is a perversion. Warning against the Abominations of the Nations 18:24 "'Do not defile yourselves with any of these things, for the nations which I am about to drive out before you have been defiled with all these things. 18:25 Therefore the land has become unclean and I have brought the punishment for its iniquity upon it, so that the land has vomited out its inhabitants. 18:26 You yourselves must obey my statutes and my regulations and must not do any of these abominations, both the native citizen and the resident foreigner in your midst, 18:27 for the people who were in the land before you have done all these abominations, and the land has become unclean. 18:28 So do not make the land vomit you out because you defile it just as it has vomited out the nations that were before you. 18:29 For if anyone does any of these abominations, the persons who do them will be cut off from the midst of their people. 18:30 You must obey my charge to not practice any of the abominable statutes that have been done before you, so that you do not defile yourselves by them. I am the Lord your God.'" Prayer Lord, You are the One true God, the only One worthy of worship. May I never bow down to or otherwise submit to a false god or idol. Commentary The Lord God warned the Israelites to be careful to not copy or otherwise fall prey to the false religions of the non-Israelite people around them. He established clean new guidelines as to relationships which involved sexual intercourse. There was both a physical health reason and a psycho-social reason for this; the gene pool had been significantly degraded by this time due to the Fall and because inter-marriage within the Israelite nation was many hundreds of years old, thus marriage to close relatives created the risk of multiplying serious genetic defects. The psycho-social reasons included the directly cited intention of a man to take in another closely-related woman as a concubine to make his wife jealous or to otherwise hurt her emotionally, there was also the matter of distrust because without boundaries even a close relative could not feel safe. He continued to list several additional boundaries; no intercourse during a woman's period, no adultery, no sacrifice of children to the false god Molech, no homosexual sex, and no bestiality (sex with animals). For everything the focal point was their right standing before a holy God. All of these forbidden acts were against His design from the Creation and each therefore represented a rebellion by those who according to the covenant were to be holy. Interaction Consider this: Much of the attack upon the Israelites then and Christianity today, as well as the very nature of a sustainable civilization, comes in the form of promotion of the values God forbade in Lev. 18. Discuss Is it not true that the Israelites had already demonstrated, by the making of the golden calf, their willingness to copy the idols of the non-Israelites? Reflect Imagine how close to paganism the Israelites must have been that God needed to warn them to not sacrifice their children to the false god Molech. Share How chaotic do you think things would have been if anyone could marry, take as a concubine, or simply engage in sexual intercourse with anyone? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be compromising with a false teaching or drifting into idolatry. Action: Today I will acknowledge where I have been compromising with a false teaching and have blended that with Biblical teaching (syncretism). I will also acknowledge where I have made someone or something of the world an idol in my life. I will repent, seek and accept the Lord's forgiveness, and ask a fellow believer -- preferably one Biblically qualified as an elder -- to be my accountability partner to hold-fast to the commitment of holiness I have made. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Leviticus 19 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Sep 20 20:39:12 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2010 20:39:12 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Leviticus 19 Message-ID: <4C97FEB0.9040006@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Leviticus 19 Religious and Social Regulations 19:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 19:2 "Speak to the whole congregation of the Israelites and tell them, 'You must be holy because I, the Lord your God, am holy. 19:3 Each of you must respect his mother and his father, and you must keep my Sabbaths. I am the Lord your God. 19:4 Do not turn to idols, and you must not make for yourselves gods of cast metal. I am the Lord your God. Eating the Peace Offering 19:5 "'When you sacrifice a peace offering sacrifice to the Lord, you must sacrifice it so that it is accepted for you. 19:6 It must be eaten on the day of your sacrifice and on the following day, but what is left over until the third day must be burned up. 19:7 If, however, it is eaten on the third day, it is spoiled, it will not be accepted, 19:8 and the one who eats it will bear his punishment for iniquity because he has profaned what is holy to the Lord. That person will be cut off from his people. Leaving the Gleanings 19:9 "'When you gather in the harvest of your land, you must not completely harvest the corner of your field, and you must not gather up the gleanings of your harvest. 19:10 You must not pick your vineyard bare, and you must not gather up the fallen grapes of your vineyard. You must leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God. Dealing Honestly 19:11 "'You must not steal, you must not tell lies, and you must not deal falsely with your fellow citizen. 19:12 You must not swear falsely in my name, so that you do not profane the name of your God. I am the Lord. 19:13 You must not oppress your neighbor or commit robbery against him. You must not withhold the wages of the hired laborer overnight until morning. 19:14 You must not curse a deaf person or put a stumbling block in front of a blind person. You must fear your God; I am the Lord. Justice, Love, and Propriety 19:15 "'You must not deal unjustly in judgment: you must neither show partiality to the poor nor honor the rich. You must judge your fellow citizen fairly. 19:16 You must not go about as a slanderer among your people. You must not stand idly by when your neighbor's life is at stake. I am the Lord. 19:17 You must not hate your brother in your heart. You must surely reprove your fellow citizen so that you do not incur sin on account of him. 19:18 You must not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people, but you must love your neighbor as yourself. I am the Lord. 19:19 You must keep my statutes. You must not allow two different kinds of your animals to breed, you must not sow your field with two different kinds of seed, and you must not wear a garment made of two different kinds of fabric. Lying with a Slave Woman 19:20 "'When a man has sexual intercourse with a woman, although she is a slave woman designated for another man and she has not yet been ransomed, or freedom has not been granted to her, there will be an obligation to pay compensation. They must not be put to death, because she was not free. 19:21 He must bring his guilt offering to the Lord at the entrance of the Meeting Tent, a guilt offering ram, 19:22 and the priest is to make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the Lord for his sin that he has committed, and he will be forgiven of his sin that he has committed. The Produce of Fruit Trees 19:23 "'When you enter the land and plant any fruit tree, you must consider its fruit to be forbidden. Three years it will be forbidden to you; it must not be eaten. 19:24 In the fourth year all its fruit will be holy, praise offerings to the Lord. 19:25 Then in the fifth year you may eat its fruit to add its produce to your harvest. I am the Lord your God. Blood, Hair, and Body 19:26 "'You must not eat anything with the blood still in it. You must not practice either divination or soothsaying. 19:27 You must not round off the corners of the hair on your head or ruin the corners of your beard. 19:28 You must not slash your body for a dead person or incise a tattoo on yourself. I am the Lord. 19:29 Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, so that the land does not practice prostitution and become full of lewdness. Purity, Honor, Respect, and Honesty 19:30 "'You must keep my Sabbaths and fear my sanctuary. I am the Lord. 19:31 Do not turn to the spirits of the dead and do not seek familiar spirits to become unclean by them. I am the Lord your God. 19:32 You must stand up in the presence of the aged, honor the presence of an elder, and fear your God. I am the Lord. 19:33 When a foreigner resides with you in your land, you must not oppress him. 19:34 The foreigner who resides with you must be to you like a native citizen among you; so you must love him as yourself, because you were foreigners in the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God. 19:35 You must not do injustice in the regulation of measures, whether of length, weight, or volume. 19:36 You must have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah, and an honest hin. I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt. 19:37 You must be sure to obey all my statutes and regulations. I am the Lord.'" Prayer Lord, remind me daily of Your holiness and of my responsibility to live holy before You. Commentary The Lord God reminded the Israelites of their covenantal obligation to live holy lives, because of their agreement and relationship with a holy God. He instructed them to be sensitive to the needs of the poor and of the foreigner, thus they were not to pick everything clean at harvest but to leave some behind for them; this was not a completely free gift as it required that those receiving the "gleanings" work to harvest them. He provided guidance for daily living: Deal justly with others Do not slander others Defend a brother in danger. Do "... not hate your brother in your heart." [This is interesting as it is a precursor to the teaching of Jesus in the NT.]. To warn a brother who has stumbled so that you do not share in his guilt. To not seek vengeance. To not bear a grudge against a fellow Israelites. To love your neighbor as yourself. To not allow two different kinds of your animals to breed (e.g. donkey and horse because they produce the mule which cannot reproduce). To not mix different seed in the same field. To not wear a garment made of two different kinds of fabric. In those primitive times a slave woman did not have the same rights as a free woman, therefore while it was a sin for her master to have sexual intercourse with her they were not killed but he was required to present a sin offering. The unfortunate precedent of a master being with a slave woman had been set by Abraham. Fruit trees planted in the new land was to be uneaten in the first three years and the fourth given as a praise offering to the Lord God. Only in the fifth year and beyond was the fruit acceptable for the people to eat. The people were warned again to not eat blood. The people were warned again to avoid witchcraft; no divining (asking spirits to show where wells should be), trying to communicate with the dead, no fortune telling, be respectful to an angel and an elder, The people were warned to not decorate themselves with odd beard and hair styles nor to be tattooed. The people were not to follow the pagan practice of self-mutilation for the dead. Parents, no matter how poor, we not to cause their daughter to be a prostitute -- all prostitution was bad for the society. People were to treat foreigners respectfully when they were guests, at least as well as if they were Israelites. People were to deal honestly with one another, no cheating. The people were to keep all of the statutes given by God. Interaction Consider this: God repeats Himself when He really wants us to remember what He has said. Discuss this: Which of the items on this list were also taught by Jesus? Reflect on this: Witchcraft in all of its many forms were forbidden by God. Share this: When have you recognized that the way that you adorned yourself was an expression of a heart not focused on God but instead on worldly values that were not pleasing to God? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where something in the list from this text also applies to Christians and is a problem in your life. Action: Today I will repent of that which the Holy Spirit reveals to me and will partner with a fellow believer for accountability in remaining where God, rather than the world, would have me in my walk. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Leviticus 20 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 21 19:23:53 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 19:23:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Leviticus 20 Message-ID: <4C993E89.5090108@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Leviticus 20 Prohibitions against Illegitimate Family Worship 20:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 20:2 "You are to say to the Israelites, 'Any man from the Israelites or from the foreigners who reside in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death; the people of the land must pelt him with stones. 20:3 I myself will set my face against that man and cut him off from the midst of his people, because he has given some of his children to Molech and thereby defiled my sanctuary and profaned my holy name. 20:4 If, however, the people of the land shut their eyes to that man when he gives some of his children to Molech so that they do not put him to death, 20:5 I myself will set my face against that man and his clan. I will cut off from the midst of their people both him and all who follow after him in spiritual prostitution, to commit prostitution by worshiping Molech. Prohibition against Spiritists and Mediums 20:6 "'The person who turns to the spirits of the dead and familiar spirits to commit prostitution by going after them, I will set my face against that person and cut him off from the midst of his people. Exhortation to Holiness and Obedience 20:7 "'You must sanctify yourselves and be holy, because I am the Lord your God. 20:8 You must be sure to obey my statutes. I am the Lord who sanctifies you. Family Life and Sexual Prohibitions 20:9 "'If anyone curses his father and mother he must be put to death. He has cursed his father and mother; his blood guilt is on himself. 20:10 If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death. 20:11 If a man has sexual intercourse with his father's wife, he has exposed his father's nakedness. Both of them must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:12 If a man has sexual intercourse with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death. They have committed perversion; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:13 If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:14 If a man has sexual intercourse with both a woman and her mother, it is lewdness. Both he and they must be burned to death, so there is no lewdness in your midst. 20:15 If a man has sexual intercourse with any animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal. 20:16 If a woman approaches any animal to have sexual intercourse with it, you must kill the woman, and the animal must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves. 20:17 "'If a man has sexual intercourse with his sister, whether the daughter of his father or his mother, so that he sees her nakedness and she sees his nakedness, it is a disgrace. They must be cut off in the sight of the children of their people. He has exposed his sister's nakedness; he will bear his punishment for iniquity. 20:18 If a man has sexual intercourse with a menstruating woman and uncovers her nakedness, he has laid bare her fountain of blood and she has exposed the fountain of her blood, so both of them must be cut off from the midst of their people. 20:19 You must not expose the nakedness of your mother's sister and your father's sister, for such a person has laid bare his own close relative. They must bear their punishment for iniquity. 20:20 If a man has sexual intercourse with his aunt, he has exposed his uncle's nakedness; they must bear responsibility for their sin, they will die childless. 20:21 If a man has sexual intercourse with his brother's wife, it is indecency. He has exposed his brother's nakedness; they will be childless. Exhortation to Holiness and Obedience 20:22 "'You must be sure to obey all my statutes and regulations, so that the land to which I am about to bring you to take up residence there does not vomit you out. 20:23 You must not walk in the statutes of the nation which I am about to drive out before you, because they have done all these things and I am filled with disgust against them. 20:24 So I have said to you: You yourselves will possess their land and I myself will give it to you for a possession, a land flowing with milk and honey. I am the Lord your God who has set you apart from the other peoples. 20:25 Therefore you must distinguish between the clean animal and the unclean, and between the unclean bird and the clean, and you must not make yourselves detestable by means of an animal or bird or anything that creeps on the ground -- creatures I have distinguished for you as unclean. 20:26 You must be holy to me because I, the Lord, am holy, and I have set you apart from the other peoples to be mine. Prohibition against Spiritists and Mediums 20:27 "'A man or woman who has in them a spirit of the dead or a familiar spirit must be put to death. They must pelt them with stones; their blood guilt is on themselves.'" Prayer Lord, may the influences of witchcraft never be found in my home or anywhere else where I have authority. Commentary The Lord God reiterated His prohibition against the sacrifice of children to the false god Molech. He added that if family (clan) members knew of one who was doing this and did nothing -- the punishment was death - the whole family was guilty and would be removed from the covenant with God. He uses the term "spiritual prostitution" for those who sacrificed children to Molech as well as for those who sought-after the spirits of the dead and familiar spirits. This term must have been jarring for the Israelites to hear as in their culture a prostitute was to be shunned. He reiterates guidelines for right-living on matters of respect and sexual relations: /If anyone curses his father and mother he must be put to death./ /If a man commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death./ /If a man has sexual intercourse with his father's wife ... Both of them must be put to death/ /If a man has sexual intercourse with his daughter-in-law, both of them must be put to death./ /If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death/ /If a man has sexual intercourse with both a woman and her mother ... Both he and they must be burned to death/ /If a man has sexual intercourse with any animal, he must be put to death, and you must kill the animal./ /If a woman approaches any animal to have sexual intercourse with it, you must kill the woman, and the animal must be put to death/ /If a man has sexual intercourse with his sister, whether the daughter of his father or his mother ... They must be cut off in the sight of the children of their people./ /If a man has sexual intercourse with a menstruating woman and uncovers her nakedness ... both of them must be cut off from the midst of their people./ /You must not expose the nakedness of your mother's sister and your father's sister, for such a person has laid bare his own close relative. They must bear their punishment for iniquity./ /If a man has sexual intercourse with his aunt, he has exposed his uncle's nakedness; they must bear responsibility for their sin, they will die childless./ /If a man has sexual intercourse with his brother's wife, it is indecency. He has exposed his brother's nakedness; they will be childless./ Interaction Consider this: Witchcraft in its many forms were ways to worship the enemy instead of God, therefore God continuously stressed His prohibition against it. Discuss this: How serious must have been the problem of incest and bestiality that God found it necessary to repeat His prohibitions? Reflect on this: The sexual sins that are listed would have created both genetic problems and psycho-social problems within Israelite society. Share this: Has the Holy Spirit led you to recognize subtle elements of witchcraft in your church or home that you had not previously recognized as such? When you asked about them what was the reaction? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any place in your relationships where the enemy is tempting you to even think of any of the sexual sins listed in today's text. Action: Today I will repent of anything associate with witchcraft and any thoughts that the enemy has stimulated in me toward any of the sins in today's text. As necessary I will ask a spiritually mature fellow believer to pray in-agreement and in confidence for these things to be an abomination to me as they are to the Lord God. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Leviticus 21-24:9 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Sat Sep 18 16:14:21 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:14:21 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Beginning of Birth Pains Message-ID: <4C951D9D.4000008@lightlink.com> *Beginning of Birth Pains* . In the Olivet prophecy the Lord referred to four specific time frames during the end time, which began when Israel became a nation again after 1900+ years in diaspora on May 14, 1948. The first, which includes false Christs and wars and rumors of war, He referred to as "*not yet the end*." This is followed by "*the beginning of birth pains*," "*tribulation*" and, finally, "*great* *tribulation*." It is of great interest that the first four seals of Revelation, (Revelation 6:1-8), what we have come to know as the four horsemen of the apocalypse, perfectly parallels "the beginning of birth pains" in the Olivet prophecy. The start of the seven prophetic years of "tribulation," though, is specifically revealed in Daniel 9:24-27, and that event parallels Matthew 24:9-14 and Revelation 6:9-11. The picture the Lord gives us in the Olivet prophecy and in Revelation is that "the beginning of birth pains," which includes the terrifying events of the first four seals, _precedes_ the seven year "tribulation." Therefore, even those believers who are expecting (albeit falsely) to escape "tribulation" by being raptured away just before the beginning of the final seven years, _will_ experience the "trouble" and "tribulation" that includes a nuclear world war, followed by famine and pandemic disease that kills 25% of the world's population (1.75 billion people). And this is just the _beginning_ of birth pains! *"Times of the End"* * * *Matt. 24:4-6* *Matt. 24:7,8* *Matt. 24:9-14* *Matt. 24:15* May 14, 1948 > 1^st Seal > 4^th Seal 5^th Seal 6^th Seal > 7^th Seal */"not yet the end"/* */"beginning of birth pains"/* */"tribulation"/* */"great tribulation"/* */ /* The painful, relentless contractions of the birth event itself will begin, oddly enough, with a treaty among many nations as they surrender sovereignty for seven years to a centralized world government for the purpose of restoring world peace and economic prosperity. *May He grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation as you examine the scriptures to see whether what has been written here is true or not.* ** * *** * Dispensational theologians have fostered the concept of tribulation being limited to the specific seven prophetic years of Daniel's 70^th week, but the unified picture presented to us in scripture is one of _escalation_ beginning with the re-establishment of Israel as a nation and becoming progressively worse until it ends on the day of the Lord as He returns to earth to destroy His enemies and set up His millennial kingdom. The only interim of relative peace and relief from tribulation for most of the world, strangely enough, is the first three and a half prophetic years of what we call "_the_ tribulation." Yet, for Christians during that time, the escalation continues as the awakened wise virgins begin to experience worldwide what Christians are already experiencing in numerous countries, like North Korea, China, Sudan, Somalia, Pakistan, and Iran. The future prophetic events in the Revelation of Jesus Christ, given to His bond-servant, John, are not just about the final seven years of tribulation. It includes the millennial kingdom age _after_ the seven years and the beginning of our eternal dwelling place with God the Father and God the Son, and it includes the dangerous events leading up to the final seven years of tribulation. As we examine the events of the first four seals we will see that it is these events that set the stage for the rise of the Antichrist to power in Daniel's 70^th week, also called the "time of Jacob's trouble," and it also sets the stage for the awakening of the church for the final, amazing end time harvest of an _uncountable_ number of souls from every nation, tribe, and tongue. It is, therefore, _NOT_, a time of fear and dread for believers, but a time of jubilant expectation for those He is now *_warning_* and *_preparing_*. */ "You will be hearing of wars and rumors of wars. /**/See that you are _not_ _frightened_, for those things _must_ take place/**/,/**/ but that is _not_ _yet_ _the_ _end_. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, and in various places there will be famines and earthquakes./**/But all these things are merely the _beginning_ _of_ _birth_ _pang_s." /*_Matthew 24:6-8 NASB_ (emphasis is the author's) Matthew 24:6-8, on its own, is much too general to apply to some specific series of future events. Wars, famines, and earthquakes have been with us from the beginning, but the Lord's identification of future wars, famines, and earthquakes as "the beginning of birth pangs" tells us that, for some reason, wars, famines, and earthquakes will, at some future point in time, be recognizable as "signs of the times." Revelation is _the_ book for determining the order of end time events, and it is prudent to compare any prophetic end time passages found elsewhere with the book of Revelation. However, Revelation does not reveal the specific beginning of Daniel's 70^th week, the seven final years. What it _does_ reveal, in the same chronological order as Matthew 24, is the order of events during the "end times". Therefore, the events of Revelation and Matthew 24 both cover a _specific_ time span greater than seven years, and when we compare Matthew 24, Daniel, and Revelation we find that the first four seals in Revelation 6 all occur _before_ the event that triggers the specific seven year "tribulation," and this series of events is identified by the Lord as "the beginning of birth pains" or "the beginning of sorrows." Interestingly, neither Matthew 24 nor Revelation give a specific time for the beginning of the final seven years of tribulation. The final seven years, Daniel's 70^th week, is designated as beginning with the Antichrist's covenant-treaty with many (and it is presumed, but not specifically stated, Israel). What should be of great interest to us is that the parallels of Matthew 24 (Mark 13, Luke 21), Daniel 7 and 8, and Revelation 6 demonstrate that *the "beginning of birth pains" includes the rise of the Antichrist to political power, a nuclear world war that devastates a large number of Muslim countries, including the total destruction of the city of Damascus, raises Israel to the status of a world power, the worst worldwide famines and pandemic disease of all time, all of which wipes out 25% of the world's population or approximately 1.75 billion people.* And all that _before_ the final seven prophetic years of Daniel's 70^th week! In *_Left Behind? _*I demonstrated that the first six seals represented _tribulation_ (the Greek word transliterated as /thilipsis/., Strong's #2568) and that it was not until the opening of the seventh seal that God's _wrath_ , the Greek word transliterated as /orge/ (Strong's #3709) is manifested. Therefore, the first six seals of trouble or tribulation, whether included in the seven years of "Daniel's 70th week" or not, are for the purpose of producing _repentance_, not for the outpouring of God's retributive wrath, and there can be no valid argument that the church will not be present during the first six seals. During tribulation God's grace and mercy is still available for those who repent and believe. After the seventh seal is opened there is no more opportunity for repentance. This, then, is a time of God's retributive wrath with only those who are "sealed" or protected in some specific way by God escaping the outpouring of God's wrath. As will be demonstrated, it is these first four seals, corresponding with Matthew 24:6-8, that will set the stage for the final seven years. *_The first seal_ *of Revelation 6 coincides with "nation against nation", and it indicates a time when regional wars are continually breaking out all over the globe, with one starting before the last one is finished. We could easily conclude that this seems to describe what has been taking place in the world for the past fifty years. Because the entire end time prophetic focus is on Israel and the Middle East, it is my assumption that the first four seals are centralized in the Middle East but have global consequences. The four horses and their riders represent the spiritual entities that will influence and empower their human counterparts. To understand this influence of spiritual entities on men we have the example given to us by Daniel. When the angel appeared to Daniel he reported that the reason he had been delayed was that the "prince of Persia" resisted him. This was obviously not a human prince, but a Satanic entity influencing political powers and events in Persia. Likewise, Paul, in Ephesians 6:12 said, */For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places./* The four horsemen of the apocalypse _are_ "spiritual forces of wickedness", but their influence is worked out through men. This is much like a puppet show. What we _see_ are the puppets unknowingly yielding to the influence of an invisible puppeteer pulling the strings. The white horse rider has a bow, a long range weapon, and his activity is that of a usurper and a conqueror. He is "given" a crown, indicating that his conquest results in his assumption of political leadership that he did not have prior to the conquest. This event is most likely the Antichrist's rise to power as described in Daniel 7, where the Antichrist becomes the head of a ten nation federation of country states through military conquest over three nations and the surrender of sovereignty by seven others without a fight. This fourth beast kingdom (the revived Roman empire) prophesied by Daniel was partially fulfilled by the original Roman empire as it occupied all or part of the modern nations of Italy, England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Monaco, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Bulgaria, Romania, Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Bosnia, Hungary, Armenia, Turkey, Egypt, Libya, Algeria, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, and Israel. However, the specific prophecies concerning the fourth beast kingdom were only partially fulfilled by the ancient Roman empire. Daniel 7:8-28 describes an end times ten nation federation of country states arising out of the same area occupied by the Roman empire in which a political leader, described as the "little horn", obtains control of three of the country states by conquest, and surrender of the other seven without a fight. The modern states comprising this fourth beast (revived Roman empire) kingdom that will ultimately rule almost the entire world will likely be composed of both Muslim and non-Muslim country states. However, the specific identity of the white horse and rider, its human counterparts, and the modern country states involved is _still_ _speculative_. What believers need to be able to identify is the event itself: *1) A ten nation federation of country states will be formed out of territory that was, at one time, a part of the Roman empire; 2) A coup will take place in one of the country states; 3) This "little horn" who usurps leadership of one of the countries will then gain control of two other country states by rapid military conquest; 4) The other seven country states will surrender sovereignty to the "little horn" without a fight.* Because Daniel's prophecies are extremely detailed and those related to the past were fulfilled _exactly_ as Daniel described, we can expect the details of the initial rise of this fourth beast kingdom to also take place exactly as described, and, therefore, be recognizable. Wide awake Christians all over the world will recognize the leader of this ten nation federation of country states as being the _Antichrist_, and this first seal event is the most likely source of the announcement, "*Behold, the bridegroom!*" that wakes up the virgins in the parable of the ten virgins. The events described by Daniel that expose the identity of the Antichrist will also awaken the church to the fact that the Lord is coming _soon_, and, though we will point our fingers at the Antichrist at this time, who will believe us? Compelling world circumstances, and the immediate onset of the second seal will cause our cry of alarm to fall on deaf ears. (*_The Parable of the Ten Virgins Unveiled ) _*describes what will be happening in the true church from the time of this announcement all the way through the first five seals of Revelation.) The opening of *_the second seal_ *follows immediately on the heels of the white horse and its rider. This 2^nd seal includes a red horse with a rider who has a "great sword" and he is given power to "take peace from the earth", indicating a great war, war that is distinct from the events associated with the 1^st seal. It is quite likely a war in which nuclear weapons are used. That we are on the brink of such a war is obvious to all, and, because it is specifically prophesied, it _will_ happen. This coincides with the Lord's description in Matthew 24 of "kingdom against kingdom" (i.e. groups of countries against other groups of countries). This event is also likely to coincide with the Gog-Magog war reported in Ezekiel 38 and 39. However, Ezekiel specifically states that Israel will be living in _peace_ at the time of the Gog-Magog war, and the possibility exists that the ten nation federation of country states, which almost certainly includes some Muslim nations, has initiated or participated in a limited _peace_ _accord_ with Israel at this time. This is _not_ "the" treaty or covenant signed by "many nations" that initiates Daniel's seventieth week. That treaty will actually involve _many_ nations, Muslim and non-Muslim, surrendering their sovereignty to a centralized government for the specific term of seven years. The peace accord will apparently intervene between Israel and their current hostilities with the Palestinians and its supporters so that Israel is _temporarily_ in a state of "peace." It has been speculated by some, on the basis of current events, that a strike by Israel on Iran to destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities could be the catalyst that produces this peace accord between Israel and its Palestinian neighbors. The red horse and its rider who takes peace from the earth is identified in Ezekiel 38 and 39 as Gog, of the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal and the many nations with him. Magog is identified biblically as the head of the Scythian tribes that lived north of the Black Sea and the Caspian Sea, which is now identified as Russia and Ukraine. "Gog", the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, is the specific "spiritual force of wickedness" identified as the red horse and its rider, and, like the white horse and its rider, Gog has human counterparts, knowingly or unknowingly carrying out the will of the "spiritual force of wickedness." The Muslim nations that will _not_ be included in the invading Gog-Magog alliance, but _were_ a part of the Roman empire include Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, Kuwait, Iraq, Cyprus, Lebanon, and Jordan. These Muslim nations are, therefore, potentially a part of the fourth beast kingdom and are the likely source or origin of the peace accord in place at the time of the Gog invasion of Israel. (See *_Comparison Chart of the Ten Nation Federation and Gog-Magog .)_* The likelihood that America will somehow be involved in this world war is extremely high even though the central conflict of the war will be Israel and the invading nations. We _do_ know from prophecy that Israel is not defeated or destroyed after becoming a nation again on May 14, 1948, and, since the restoration of Israel to nationhood is _the_ prophetic event that starts the "times of the end", we can assume that Israel comes out, not only unscathed, but gloriously triumphant, during the Gog-Magog war. We can also assume that the ten nation fourth beast kingdom is still intact after this war, and it would be important to note that the nations initiating the Gog-Magog war are _not_ included in the federation of ten nation states we have already identified as the fourth beast kingdom led by the "little horn." Therefore, the Gog-Magog alliance of Russia, Ukraine, and primarily Muslim nations is separate from, and allied _against_, the ten nation federation of Muslim and non-Muslim country-states led by the "little horn". This war, described in Ezekiel 38 and 39 as the invasion of Israel by Gog, of the land of Magog and all his allies, depicts an unusual consortium of nations led by Gog, "the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal", specifically including Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Iran, Ethiopia, Libya, and Algeria. The military alliance also _potentially_ includes geographical areas currently identified as Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, Tadzhikistan, Kyrgzstan, Tunisia, and Morocco. Their motive is to plunder Israel, and we may assume that their Satanically inspired spiritual motive is to thwart God's plan by annihilating the troublesome state of Israel. Saudi Arabia, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Qatar, and the merchants of Tarshish (Spain, near Gibraltar, or, possibly, all those whose shipping trade routes come and go through the straits of Gibraltar, which would include the United States) will protest the pending invasion of Israel, but they will take no action to prevent the invasion once it is started, proving that the fourth beast kingdom's peace accord with Israel, guaranteeing them safety, has no real substance. From God's perspective the plan is to reveal His glory to the nations and His favor toward Israel, and the war that Israel could not possibly win on its own is won by God's supernatural intervention. This intervention includes an earthquake off the Richter scale, with gigantic one hundred pound hailstones, and burning sulfur falling on the enemy gathered against Israel. In the confusion, the enemy mistakenly turns its weapons on their own allies. In addition, God strikes the "bow" from the enemies' hands and causes their arrows to fall short (i.e. nuclear missiles), *and _exactly_ eighty-five percent (85%) of the invading force will be destroyed in a single day.* In Ezekiel 39:6 a passage that can easily be interpreted as nuclear warfare appears. */ I will _send_ fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands/**...*(of the invading nations)...*/, and they will know that I am the LORD./* (insert is the author's) Although the causal source is the will of God, this does not appear to be fire from heaven. God _sends_ (in the sense of issuing an order) fire on the Magog homelands, which may or may not be nuclear retaliation by the protesting nations and their allies or even by the fourth beast kingdom. The aftermath results in Israel's status being elevated to "Super-power" along with the ten nation federation of country-states headed by the white horse rider (the fourth beast kingdom ruled by the "little horn"). There are numerous resources for the study of the Gog-Magog war, but the main points believers need to remember are: *1) Israel will be living in (relative) "peace"; 2) A military alliance of Russia, Ukraine, and Muslim states including Turkey (currently not openly hostile to Israel) and Iran will plan an invasion of Israel; 3) Saudi Arabia and other Muslim and non-Muslim countries will protest the pending invasion; 4) The invading forces will be defeated supernaturally by the intervention of God, and the nuclear and biological weapons that the Gog-Magog forces intended for use on Israel will be turned on themselves; 5) Israel and the nations allied with Israel will retaliate against the Gog-Magog countries, causing extensive destruction of the Gog-Magog homelands, which includes the complete destruction of the city of Damascus; 6) Israel will emerge as a Super-power; 7) this event followed by the sudden appearance of two witnesses (Elijah and Enoch?) on the streets of Jerusalem will cause a revival of Christian conversions in Israel. Yet, religious Jews will resist the two witnesses just as they resisted Christ.* * * Immediately following the short but deadly world war is the opening of *_the third seal_* in which _the black horse and its rider_ represent worldwide famines (and we can assume economic chaos). The "fire" falling on the homelands of Magog will likely destroy the immediate grain and food crop production and the ability of that geographic area to produce and distribute food crops for a number of years. Thus */"A quart of wheat for a day's wages, and three quarts of barley for a day's wages, and do not damage the oil and the wine!"/* The black horse and its rider will be immediately followed by the opening of *_the fourth seal_ i*n which the pale horse and its rider, "Death", represents the death of twenty-five percent (25%) of the world's population by continuing regional wars, famine, pandemic disease (including the possibility of man-introduced biological weapons) and even by wild animals gone berserk. This last distinctive of a notable number of people being killed by wild beasts gives us a horrifying picture of what the world will be like at that time for many people. The total deaths from war, famine, disease, and wild animals reach almost *_two_ _billion_ *people based on the population of earth in 2010. This is an astonishing number, but, like the detailed prophecies of Daniel, we can expect that the God who sees the end from the beginning _knows_ exactly what will happen. The first four seals of Revelation are likely to take place in rapid succession, and this horrific series of events perfectly sets the stage for the seven year covenant-treaty that will be initiated by the Antichrist (the "little horn" of the fourth beast kingdom) between _many_ _nations_, a treaty that yields the sovereignty of each country to some centralized form of world government for a period of seven years with the promise of restoring world peace, security, and economic stability. This treaty is _the_ event that starts the final seven year countdown to the last day, also known as "Daniel's seventieth week" or "the time of Jacob's trouble. Therefore, whether you believe in the dispensational theory of a pre-tribulation "rapture" or not, most of you who are reading this commentary _will_ be present for the shocking events of the first four seals of Revelation. Yet, this is _not_ a time to dread. This is the time of the awakening of the "wise virgins" (Matthew 25) to fulfill the commission we were given by the Lord until "the end of the age." */ Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of the LORD has risen upon you. For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you/**/ /**/And His glory will appear upon you. /*_Isaiah 60:1,2 NASB_ *"Times of the End"* *Matthew 24:4-6* *"/not yet the end"/* false Christs and wars and rumors of war * * * * *Matthew 24:7,8* */"the beginning of birth pains"/* *Daniel 7:10; 7:19-23; 8:9,23-25* * * *Revelation 6* nation against nation the rise of the Antichrist and the fourth beast kingdom - "given a crown" 1^st Seal: *Revelation 6:1,2* - the white horse rider (conquering war) kingdom against kingdom (i.e. groups of nations against groups of nations) * * 2^nd Seal: *Revelation 6:3,4* - the red horse rider (world war) *Ezekiel 38 & 39* famine 3^rd Seal: *Revelation 6:5,6* - the black horse rider (famine as a result of war) famine, disease 4^th Seal: *Rev. 6:7,8* - the pale horse rider (1.75B dead by continuing wars, famine, disease, and wild animals) *Matthew 24:9-14* *tribulation* *Daniel 9:24-27* *beginning of the 70^th week* martyrdom and evangelization the Antichrist confirms a covenant with many (includes Israel); the saints are given into his hand 5^th Seal: *Revelation 6:9-11* - martyrdom; *Rev. 7:9-17* - evangelization of every nation, tribe, and tongue) *Matthew 24:15 * *great tribulation* the "revealing" of Antichrist *Daniel 9:27* the "revealing" of Antichrist -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." 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Name: ACCOUNT.IMAGE.10 Type: image/jpeg Size: 56484 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Sep 22 17:00:46 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2010 17:00:46 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Leviticus 21-24:9 Message-ID: <4C9A6E7E.8060403@bibleseven.com> Thursday Leviticus 21-24:9 Rules for the Priests 21:1 The Lord said to Moses: "Say to the priests, the sons of Aaron -- say to them, 'For a dead person no priest is to defile himself among his people, 21:2 except for his close relative who is near to him: his mother, his father, his son, his daughter, his brother, 21:3 and his virgin sister who is near to him, who has no husband; he may defile himself for her. 21:4 He must not defile himself as a husband among his people so as to profane himself. 21:5 Priests must not have a bald spot shaved on their head, they must not shave the corner of their beard, and they must not cut slashes in their body. 21:6 "'They must be holy to their God, and they must not profane the name of their God, because they are the ones who present the Lord's gifts, the food of their God. Therefore they must be holy. 21:7 They must not take a wife defiled by prostitution, nor are they to take a wife divorced from her husband, for the priest is holy to his God. 21:8 You must sanctify him because he presents the food of your God. He must be holy to you because I, the Lord who sanctifies you all, am holy. 21:9 If a daughter of a priest profanes herself by engaging in prostitution, she is profaning her father. She must be burned to death. Rules for the High Priest 21:10 "'The high priest -- who is greater than his brothers, on whose head the anointing oil is poured, who has been ordained to wear the priestly garments -- must neither dishevel the hair of his head nor tear his garments. 21:11 He must not go where there is any dead person; he must not defile himself even for his father and his mother. 21:12 He must not go out from the sanctuary and must not profane the sanctuary of his God, because the dedication of the anointing oil of his God is on him. I am the Lord. 21:13 He must take a wife who is a virgin. 21:14 He must not marry a widow, a divorced woman, or one profaned by prostitution; he may only take a virgin from his people as a wife. 21:15 He must not profane his children among his people, for I am the Lord who sanctifies him.'" Rules for the Priesthood 21:16 The Lord spoke to Moses: 21:17 "Tell Aaron, 'No man from your descendants throughout their generations who has a physical flaw is to approach to present the food of his God. 21:18 Certainly no man who has a physical flaw is to approach: a blind man, or one who is lame, or one with a slit nose, or a limb too long, 21:19 or a man who has had a broken leg or arm, 21:20 or a hunchback, or a dwarf, or one with a spot in his eye, or a festering eruption, or a feverish rash, or a crushed testicle. 21:21 No man from the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a physical flaw may step forward to present the Lord's gifts; he has a physical flaw, so he must not step forward to present the food of his God. 21:22 He may eat both the most holy and the holy food of his God, 21:23 but he must not go into the veil-canopy or step forward to the altar because he has a physical flaw. Thus he must not profane my holy places, for I am the Lord who sanctifies them.'" 21:24 So Moses spoke these things to Aaron, his sons, and all the Israelites. Regulations for the Eating of Priestly Stipends 22:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 22:2 "Tell Aaron and his sons that they must deal respectfully with the holy offerings of the Israelites, which they consecrate to me, so that they do not profane my holy name. I am the Lord. 22:3 Say to them, 'Throughout your generations, if any man from all your descendants approaches the holy offerings which the Israelites consecrate to the Lord while he is impure, that person must be cut off from before me. I am the Lord. 22:4 No man from the descendants of Aaron who is diseased or has a discharge may eat the holy offerings until he becomes clean. The one who touches anything made unclean by contact with a dead person, or a man who has a seminal emission, 22:5 or a man who touches a swarming thing by which he becomes unclean, or touches a person by which he becomes unclean, whatever that person's impurity -- 22:6 the person who touches any of these will be unclean until evening and must not eat from the holy offerings unless he has bathed his body in water. 22:7 When the sun goes down he will be clean, and afterward he may eat from the holy offerings, because they are his food. 22:8 He must not eat an animal that has died of natural causes or an animal torn by beasts and thus become unclean by it. I am the Lord. 22:9 They must keep my charge so that they do not incur sin on account of it and therefore die because they profane it. I am the Lord who sanctifies them. 22:10 "'No lay person may eat anything holy. Neither a priest's lodger nor a hired laborer may eat anything holy, 22:11 but if a priest buys a person with his own money, that person may eat the holy offerings, and those born in the priest's own house may eat his food. 22:12 If a priest's daughter marries a lay person, she may not eat the holy contribution offerings, 22:13 but if a priest's daughter is a widow or divorced, and she has no children so that she returns to live in her father's house as in her youth, she may eat from her father's food, but no lay person may eat it. 22:14 "'If a man eats a holy offering by mistake, he must add one fifth to it and give the holy offering to the priest. 22:15 They must not profane the holy offerings which the Israelites contribute to the Lord, 22:16 and so cause them to incur a penalty for guilt when they eat their holy offerings, for I am the Lord who sanctifies them.'" Regulations for Offering Votive and Freewill Offerings 22:17 The Lord spoke to Moses: 22:18 "Speak to Aaron, his sons, and all the Israelites and tell them, 'When any man from the house of Israel or from the foreigners in Israel presents his offering for any of the votive or freewill offerings which they present to the Lord as a burnt offering, 22:19 if it is to be acceptable for your benefit it must be a flawless male from the cattle, sheep, or goats. 22:20 You must not present anything that has a flaw, because it will not be acceptable for your benefit. 22:21 If a man presents a peace offering sacrifice to the Lord for a special votive offering or for a freewill offering from the herd or the flock, it must be flawless to be acceptable; it must have no flaw. 22:22 "'You must not present to the Lord something blind, or with a broken bone, or mutilated, or with a running sore, or with a festering eruption, or with a feverish rash. You must not give any of these as a gift on the altar to the Lord. 22:23 As for an ox or a sheep with a limb too long or stunted, you may present it as a freewill offering, but it will not be acceptable for a votive offering. 22:24 You must not present to the Lord something with testicles that are bruised, crushed, torn, or cut off; you must not do this in your land. 22:25 Even from a foreigner you must not present the food of your God from such animals as these, for they are ruined and flawed; they will not be acceptable for your benefit.'" 22:26 The Lord spoke to Moses: 22:27 "When an ox, lamb, or goat is born, it must be under the care of its mother seven days, but from the eighth day onward it will be acceptable as an offering gift to the Lord. 22:28 You must not slaughter an ox or a sheep and its young on the same day. 22:29 When you sacrifice a thanksgiving offering to the Lord, you must sacrifice it so that it is acceptable for your benefit. 22:30 On that very day it must be eaten; you must not leave any part of it over until morning. I am the Lord. 22:31 "You must be sure to do my commandments. I am the Lord. 22:32 You must not profane my holy name, and I will be sanctified in the midst of the Israelites. I am the Lord who sanctifies you, 22:33 the one who brought you out from the land of Egypt to be your God. I am the Lord." Regulations for Israel's Appointed Times 23:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 23:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'These are the Lord's appointed times which you must proclaim as holy assemblies -- my appointed times: The Weekly Sabbath 23:3 "'Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy assembly. You must not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all the places where you live. The Festival of Passover and Unleavened Bread 23:4 "'These are the Lord's appointed times, holy assemblies, which you must proclaim at their appointed time. 23:5 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, at twilight, is a Passover offering to the Lord. 23:6 Then on the fifteenth day of the same month will be the festival of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 23:7 On the first day there will be a holy assembly for you; you must not do any regular work. 23:8 You must present a gift to the Lord for seven days, and the seventh day is a holy assembly; you must not do any regular work.'" The Presentation of First Fruits 23:9 The Lord spoke to Moses: 23:10 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'When you enter the land that I am about to give to you and you gather in its harvest, then you must bring the sheaf of the first portion of your harvest to the priest, 23:11 and he must wave the sheaf before the Lord to be accepted for your benefit -- on the day after the Sabbath the priest is to wave it. 23:12 On the day you wave the sheaf you must also offer a flawless yearling lamb for a burnt offering to the Lord, 23:13 along with its grain offering, two tenths of an ephah of choice wheat flour mixed with olive oil, as a gift to the Lord, a soothing aroma, and its drink offering, one fourth of a hin of wine. 23:14 You must not eat bread, roasted grain, or fresh grain until this very day, until you bring the offering of your God. This is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all the places where you live. The Festival of Weeks 23:15 "'You must count for yourselves seven weeks from the day after the Sabbath, from the day you bring the wave offering sheaf; they must be complete weeks. 23:16 You must count fifty days -- until the day after the seventh Sabbath -- and then you must present a new grain offering to the Lord. 23:17 From the places where you live you must bring two loaves of bread for a wave offering; they must be made from two tenths of an ephah of fine wheat flour, baked with yeast, as first fruits to the Lord. 23:18 Along with the loaves of bread, you must also present seven flawless yearling lambs, one young bull, and two rams. They are to be a burnt offering to the Lord along with their grain offering and drink offerings, a gift of a soothing aroma to the Lord. 23:19 You must also offer one male goat for a sin offering and two yearling lambs for a peace offering sacrifice, 23:20 and the priest is to wave them -- the two lambs -- along with the bread of the first fruits, as a wave offering before the Lord; they will be holy to the Lord for the priest. 23:21 "'On this very day you must proclaim an assembly; it is to be a holy assembly for you. You must not do any regular work. This is a perpetual statute in all the places where you live throughout your generations. 23:22 When you gather in the harvest of your land, you must not completely harvest the corner of your field, and you must not gather up the gleanings of your harvest. You must leave them for the poor and the foreigner. I am the Lord your God.'" The Festival of Horn Blasts 23:23 The Lord spoke to Moses: 23:24 "Tell the Israelites, 'In the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you must have a complete rest, a memorial announced by loud horn blasts, a holy assembly. 23:25 You must not do any regular work, but you must present a gift to the Lord.'" The Day of Atonement 23:26 The Lord spoke to Moses: 23:27 "The tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement. It is to be a holy assembly for you, and you must humble yourselves and present a gift to the Lord. 23:28 You must not do any work on this particular day, because it is a day of atonement to make atonement for yourselves before the Lord your God. 23:29 Indeed, any person who does not behave with humility on this particular day will be cut off from his people. 23:30 As for any person who does any work on this particular day, I will exterminate that person from the midst of his people! 23:31 You must not do any work. This is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all the places where you live. 23:32 It is a Sabbath of complete rest for you, and you must humble yourselves on the ninth day of the month in the evening, from evening until evening you must observe your Sabbath." The Festival of Booths 23:33 The Lord spoke to Moses: 23:34 "Tell the Israelites, 'On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the Festival of Temporary Shelters for seven days to the Lord. 23:35 On the first day is a holy assembly; you must do no regular work. 23:36 For seven days you must present a gift to the Lord. On the eighth day there is to be a holy assembly for you, and you must present a gift to the Lord. It is a solemn assembly day; you must not do any regular work. 23:37 "'These are the appointed times of the Lord that you must proclaim as holy assemblies to present a gift to the Lord -- burnt offering, grain offering, sacrifice, and drink offerings, each day according to its regulation, 23:38 besides the Sabbaths of the Lord and all your gifts, votive offerings, and freewill offerings which you must give to the Lord. 23:39 "'On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you gather in the produce of the land, you must celebrate a pilgrim festival of the Lord for seven days. On the first day is a complete rest and on the eighth day is complete rest. 23:40 On the first day you must take for yourselves branches from majestic trees -- palm branches, branches of leafy trees, and willows of the brook -- and you must rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days. 23:41 You must celebrate it as a pilgrim festival to the Lord for seven days in the year. This is a perpetual statute throughout your generations; you must celebrate it in the seventh month. 23:42 You must live in temporary shelters for seven days; every native citizen in Israel must live in temporary shelters, 23:43 so that your future generations may know that I made the Israelites live in temporary shelters when I brought them out from the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God.'" 23:44 So Moses spoke to the Israelites about the appointed times of the Lord. Regulations for the Lampstand and Table of Bread 24:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 24:2 "Command the Israelites to bring to you pure oil of beaten olives for the light, to make a lamp burn continually. 24:3 Outside the veil-canopy of the congregation in the Meeting Tent Aaron must arrange it from evening until morning before the Lord continually. This is a perpetual statute throughout your generations. 24:4 On the ceremonially pure lampstand he must arrange the lamps before the Lord continually. 24:5 "You must take choice wheat flour and bake twelve loaves; there must be two tenths of an ephah of flour in each loaf, 24:6 and you must set them in two rows, six in a row, on the ceremonially pure table before the Lord. 24:7 You must put pure frankincense on each row, and it will become a memorial portion for the bread, a gift to the Lord. 24:8 Each Sabbath day Aaron must arrange it before the Lord continually; this portion is from the Israelites as a perpetual covenant. 24:9 It will belong to Aaron and his sons, and they must eat it in a holy place because it is most holy to him, a perpetual allotted portion from the gifts of the Lord." Prayer Lord, while there are no longer priests and highly regulated religious events and sacrifices You are still holy. Since I am the 'tabernacle' of Your Holy Spirit may my life be lived increasingly holy before You. Commentary Because an Old Testament covenant priest was a integral part of the sacrificial system the Lord God required of him a number of special lifestyle mandates that were not required of others; these included remaining ceremonially clean -- with rare close-relative exceptions -- whom he was allowed to marry, and how he was to conduct himself so as to rightly-represent his position in God's holy sacrificial system. The wife and children of the high priest were also held to a higher standard. Not just anyone was allowed the honor of a priestly role in the tabernacle. The Old Testament covenant priest was to, himself, physically appear much alike the very "without flaw" sacrifices he was to present "/No man from the descendants of Aaron the priest who has a physical flaw may step forward to present the Lord's gifts; he has a physical flaw, so he must not step forward to present the food of his God. 21:22 He may eat both the most holy and the holy food of his God, 21:23 but he must not go into the veil-canopy or step forward to the altar because he has a physical flaw/." The part of the holy offerings given to the priest as his food was also protected, this was to preserve the sense of sanctity of all things associated with the tabernacle, and prevented abuses where those sacrificial foods might be misused for financial or other gains. This is a summary of the required religious events: The Weekly Sabbath - /Six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest/ The Festival of Passover and Unleavened Bread - /In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, at twilight, is a Passover offering to the Lord. Then on the fifteenth day of the same month will be the festival of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. On the first day there will be a holy assembly for you; you must not do any regular work. You must present a gift to the Lord for seven days, and the seventh day is a holy assembly; you must not do any regular work.'"/ The Presentation of First Fruits - /When you enter the land that I am about to give to you ... bring the sheaf of the first portion of your harvest to the priest/ The Festival of Weeks -- /seven complete weeks following the day of the Sabbath count fifty days -- until the day after the seventh Sabbath/ The Festival of Horn Blasts -- the first day of the seventh month The Day of Atonement -- /the tenth day of the tenth month/ The Festival of Booths - /'On the fifteenth day of this seventh month is the Festival of Temporary Shelters for seven days to the Lord. On the first day is a holy assembly; you must do no regular work. 23:36 For seven days you must present a gift to the Lord. On the eighth day there is to be a holy assembly for you, and you must present a gift to the Lord. 'On the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you gather in the produce of the land, you must celebrate a pilgrim festival of the Lord for seven days. On the first day is a complete rest and on the eighth day is complete rest. 23:40 On the first day you must take for yourselves branches from majestic trees -- palm branches, branches of leafy trees, and willows of the brook -- and you must rejoice before the Lord your God for seven days. 23:41 You must celebrate it as a pilgrim festival to the Lord for seven days in the year/. The regulations for the Lampstand and Table of Bread were repeated as they had been previously described to Moses by the Lord God. Interaction Consider this: The new covenant was somewhat foreign to the Israelites, thus God wisely provided for them great detail and many moments to reinforce its importance in their lives. Discuss this: How isolated might the priest have felt from the people around them with all of the requirements of God they were required to meet and all of the limitations placed uniquely upon them? Reflect on this: With all of the details of all of the religious activities the lives of the Israelites was deeply infused with an awareness of the presence of God, their dependence upon Him, and their obligations to Him. This was essential to the covenant to which they had agreed. Share this: When have you discovered that without a regular, not necessarily rigid -- but not careless either -- time set apart for God that you drifted into a benign neglect of your relationship with Him? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you have become either too ritualized or careless about your time with the Lord, His Word, and His people. Action: Today I will intentionally act to assure that I have a daily time with the Lord, that I gather regularly with His people to celebrate, encourage, learn, and pray, and that I will otherwise build for myself a system that keeps awareness of Him ever before me. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Leviticus 24:10-25 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Sep 23 18:15:44 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2010 18:15:44 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Leviticus 24:10-25 Message-ID: <4C9BD190.10507@bibleseven.com> Friday Leviticus 24:10-25 A Case of Blaspheming the Name 24:10 Now an Israelite woman's son whose father was an Egyptian went out among the Israelites, and the Israelite woman's son and an Israelite man had a fight in the camp. 24:11 The Israelite woman's son misused the Name and cursed, so they brought him to Moses. (Now his mother's name was Shelomith daughter of Dibri, of the tribe of Dan.) 24:12 So they placed him in custody until they were able to make a clear legal decision for themselves based on words from the mouth of the Lord. 24:13 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 24:14 "Bring the one who cursed outside the camp, and all who heard him are to lay their hands on his head, and the whole congregation is to stone him to death. 24:15 Moreover, you are to tell the Israelites, 'If any man curses his God he will bear responsibility for his sin, 24:16 and one who misuses the name of the Lord must surely be put to death. The whole congregation must surely stone him, whether he is a foreigner or a native citizen; when he misuses the Name he must be put to death. 24:17 "'If a man beats any person to death, he must be put to death. 24:18 One who beats an animal to death must make restitution for it, life for life. 24:19 If a man inflicts an injury on his fellow citizen, just as he has done it must be done to him -- 24:20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth -- just as he inflicts an injury on another person that same injury must be inflicted on him. 24:21 One who beats an animal to death must make restitution for it, but one who beats a person to death must be put to death. 24:22 There will be one regulation for you, whether a foreigner or a native citizen, for I am the Lord your God.'" 24:23 Then Moses spoke to the Israelites and they brought the one who cursed outside the camp and stoned him with stones. So the Israelites did just as the Lord had commanded Moses. Regulations for the Sabbatical Year 25:1 The Lord spoke to Moses at Mount Sinai: 25:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'When you enter the land that I am giving you, the land must observe a Sabbath to the Lord. 25:3 Six years you may sow your field, and six years you may prune your vineyard and gather the produce, 25:4 but in the seventh year the land must have a Sabbath of complete rest -- a Sabbath to the Lord. You must not sow your field or prune your vineyard. 25:5 You must not gather in the aftergrowth of your harvest and you must not pick the grapes of your unpruned vines; the land must have a year of complete rest. 25:6 You may have the Sabbath produce of the land to eat -- you, your male servant, your female servant, your hired worker, the resident foreigner who stays with you, 25:7 your cattle, and the wild animals that are in your land -- all its produce will be for you to eat. Regulations for the Jubilee Year of Release 25:8 "'You must count off seven weeks of years, seven times seven years, and the days of the seven weeks of years will amount to forty-nine years. 25:9 You must sound loud horn blasts -- in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, on the Day of Atonement -- you must sound the horn in your entire land. 25:10 So you must consecrate the fiftieth year, and you must proclaim a release in the land for all its inhabitants. That year will be your jubilee; each one of you must return to his property and each one of you must return to his clan. 25:11 That fiftieth year will be your jubilee; you must not sow the land, harvest its aftergrowth, or pick the grapes of its unpruned vines. 25:12 Because that year is a jubilee, it will be holy to you -- you may eat its produce from the field. Release of Landed Property 25:13 "'In this year of jubilee you must each return to your property. 25:14 If you make a sale to your fellow citizen or buy from your fellow citizen, no one is to wrong his brother. 25:15 You may buy it from your fellow citizen according to the number of years since the last jubilee; he may sell it to you according to the years of produce that are left. 25:16 The more years there are, the more you may make its purchase price, and the fewer years there are, the less you must make its purchase price, because he is only selling to you a number of years of produce. 25:17 No one is to oppress his fellow citizen, but you must fear your God, because I am the Lord your God. 25:18 You must obey my statutes and my regulations; you must be sure to keep them so that you may live securely in the land. 25:19 "'The land will give its fruit and you may eat until you are satisfied, and you may live securely in the land. 25:20 If you say, 'What will we eat in the seventh year if we do not sow and gather our produce?' 25:21 I will command my blessing for you in the sixth year so that it may yield the produce for three years, 25:22 and you may sow the eighth year and eat from that sixth year's produce -- old produce. Until you bring in the ninth year's produce, you may eat old produce. 25:23 The land must not be sold without reclaim because the land belongs to me, for you are foreigners and residents with me. 25:24 In all your landed property you must provide for the right of redemption of the land. 25:25 "'If your brother becomes impoverished and sells some of his property, his near redeemer is to come to you and redeem what his brother sold. 25:26 If a man has no redeemer, but he prospers and gains enough for its redemption, 25:27 he is to calculate the value of the years it was sold, refund the balance to the man to whom he had sold it, and return to his property. 25:28 If he has not prospered enough to refund a balance to him, then what he sold will belong to the one who bought it until the jubilee year, but it must revert in the jubilee and the original owner may return to his property. Release of Houses 25:29 "'If a man sells a residential house in a walled city, its right of redemption must extend until one full year from its sale; its right of redemption must extend to a full calendar year. 25:30 If it is not redeemed before the full calendar year is ended, the house in the walled city will belong without reclaim to the one who bought it throughout his generations; it will not revert in the jubilee. 25:31 The houses of villages, however, which have no wall surrounding them must be considered as the field of the land; they will have the right of redemption and must revert in the jubilee. 25:32 As for the cities of the Levites, the houses in the cities which they possess, the Levites must have a perpetual right of redemption. 25:33 Whatever someone among the Levites might redeem -- the sale of a house which is his property in a city -- must revert in the jubilee, because the houses of the cities of the Levites are their property in the midst of the Israelites. 25:34 Moreover, the open field areas of their cities must not be sold, because that is their perpetual possession. Debt and Slave Regulations 25:35 "'If your brother becomes impoverished and is indebted to you, you must support him; he must live with you like a foreign resident. 25:36 Do not take interest or profit from him, but you must fear your God and your brother must live with you. 25:37 You must not lend him your money at interest and you must not sell him food for profit. 25:38 I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt to give you the land of Canaan -- to be your God. 25:39 "'If your brother becomes impoverished with regard to you so that he sells himself to you, you must not subject him to slave service. 25:40 He must be with you as a hired worker, as a resident foreigner; he must serve with you until the year of jubilee, 25:41 but then he may go free, he and his children with him, and may return to his family and to the property of his ancestors. 25:42 Since they are my servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt, they must not be sold in a slave sale. 25:43 You must not rule over him harshly, but you must fear your God. 25:44 "'As for your male and female slaves who may belong to you -- you may buy male and female slaves from the nations all around you. 25:45 Also you may buy slaves from the children of the foreigners who reside with you, and from their families that are with you, whom they have fathered in your land, they may become your property. 25:46 You may give them as inheritance to your children after you to possess as property. You may enslave them perpetually. However, as for your brothers the Israelites, no man may rule over his brother harshly. 25:47 "'If a resident foreigner who is with you prospers and your brother becomes impoverished with regard to him so that he sells himself to a resident foreigner who is with you or to a member of a foreigner's family, 25:48 after he has sold himself he retains a right of redemption. One of his brothers may redeem him, 25:49 or his uncle or his cousin may redeem him, or anyone of the rest of his blood relatives -- his family -- may redeem him, or if he prospers he may redeem himself. 25:50 He must calculate with the one who bought him the number of years from the year he sold himself to him until the jubilee year, and the cost of his sale must correspond to the number of years, according to the rate of wages a hired worker would have earned while with him. 25:51 If there are still many years, in keeping with them he must refund most of the cost of his purchase for his redemption, 25:52 but if only a few years remain until the jubilee, he must calculate for himself in keeping with the remaining years and refund it for his redemption. 25:53 He must be with the one who bought him like a yearly hired worker. The one who bought him must not rule over him harshly in your sight. 25:54 If, however, he is not redeemed in these ways, he must go free in the jubilee year, he and his children with him, 25:55 because the Israelites are my own servants; they are my servants whom I brought out from the land of Egypt. I am the Lord your God. Prayer Lord, Your name is neither a secret nor is it forbidden to speak or to write, but it is to be honored and respected because You are the One true and holy God. May all that I do and say in Your name bring only praise to You. Commentary A case is brought to Moses where the son of a woman of the tribe of Dan and an Egyptian used the Lord's Name in vain during an argument with an Israelite. The Lord God instructed Moses to have him taken outside of the camp and stoned to death by the people. He instructed Moses that the same should be done to anyone who took the Name of God in vain. He also instructed Moses that justice for violence was to be literally-proportional, a life for a life, and eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. He provided for a "sabbath year", the seventh, and a "jubilee year", following the forty-ninth for celebration and remembrance. In the jubilee year God declares that the people are living on His land and debts and purchases among fellow Israelites were to be guided by special standards with a goal of restoring people to the land that had left their family. Residences in a walled city would not be available to reclamation in the jubilee year, only those outside the city. Israelites in poverty were to be cared for and given opportunities to work for other Israelites but never as slaves. An Israelite who sold himself to a resident non-Israelite could be redeemed by a relative or redeem himself using a calculation relative to the jubilee and his value-owed. In any case neither an Israelite nor a foreigner was allowed to treat an indebted Israelite harshly. Interaction Consider this: In order to teach the Israelites to respect life and to not bully the Lord God used an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth principle of consequences for impetuous or venal actions against another person. The key was that all Israelites were rescued from slavery in Egypt by the Lord God and were bound to Him through the covenant, therefore an attack on an Israelite was an attack on His family. Discuss this: Disrespect and ridicule are methods used to diminish the credibility and influence of a person, how might the enemy have leveraged the misuse of the Lord's Name during the formative times of the new OT covenant Israel to undermine the Lord God's effectiveness? Reflect on this: The Lord God consistently made arrangements for the poor to participate fully in Israelite commerce and society. He also made arrangements to enable those who temporarily fell upon hard times to be restored to full freedom within the community. Share this: When have you been financially indebted or obligated in some way and a fellow believer assisted you in meeting that indebtedness or obligation? Faith in Action Prayer Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where something you tend to do or say brings disrespect or ridicule to His Name. Action Today I will repent of careless language and/or careless conduct that brings disrespect or ridicule to the Lord's Name because I am one of His children. It may be words I know that I should not use but have become a habit, close I wear that are inappropriate for a Christian, practices that I indulge which are contrary to His moral will, or dabbling in other religious which I know to be in conflict with Biblical Christianity. As necessary I will ask someone who is Biblically qualified to be an elder to assist me with prayer and wise counsel and to hold me accountable. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Leviticus 26-27 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Sep 24 21:39:24 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2010 21:39:24 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Leviticus 26-27 Message-ID: <4C9D52CC.6030509@bibleseven.com> Saturday Leviticus 26-27 Exhortation to Obedience 26:1 "'You must not make for yourselves idols, so you must not set up for yourselves a carved image or a pillar, and you must not place a sculpted stone in your land to bow down before it, for I am the Lord your God. 26:2 You must keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary. I am the Lord. The Benefits of Obedience 26:3 "'If you walk in my statutes and are sure to obey my commandments, 26:4 I will give you your rains in their time so that the land will give its yield and the trees of the field will produce their fruit. 26:5 Threshing season will extend for you until the season for harvesting grapes, and the season for harvesting grapes will extend until sowing season, so you will eat your bread until you are satisfied, and you will live securely in your land. 26:6 I will grant peace in the land so that you will lie down to sleep without anyone terrifying you. I will remove harmful animals from the land, and no sword of war will pass through your land. 26:7 You will pursue your enemies and they will fall before you by the sword. 26:8 Five of you will pursue a hundred, and a hundred of you will pursue ten thousand, and your enemies will fall before you by the sword. 26:9 I will turn to you, make you fruitful, multiply you, and maintain my covenant with you. 26:10 You will still be eating stored produce from the previous year and will have to clean out what is stored from the previous year to make room for new. 26:11 "'I will put my tabernacle in your midst and I will not abhor you. 26:12 I will walk among you, and I will be your God and you will be my people. 26:13 I am the Lord your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, from being their slaves, and I broke the bars of your yoke and caused you to walk upright. The Consequences of Disobedience 26:14 "'If, however, you do not obey me and keep all these commandments -- 26:15 if you reject my statutes and abhor my regulations so that you do not keep all my commandments and you break my covenant -- 26:16 I for my part will do this to you: I will inflict horror on you, consumption and fever, which diminish eyesight and drain away the vitality of life. You will sow your seed in vain because your enemies will eat it. 26:17 I will set my face against you. You will be struck down before your enemies, those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee when there is no one pursuing you. 26:18 "'If, in spite of all these things, you do not obey me, I will discipline you seven times more on account of your sins. 26:19 I will break your strong pride and make your sky like iron and your land like bronze. 26:20 Your strength will be used up in vain, your land will not give its yield, and the trees of the land will not produce their fruit. 26:21 "'If you walk in hostility against me and are not willing to obey me, I will increase your affliction seven times according to your sins. 26:22 I will send the wild animals against you and they will bereave you of your children, annihilate your cattle, and diminish your population so that your roads will become deserted. 26:23 "'If in spite of these things you do not allow yourselves to be disciplined and you walk in hostility against me, 26:24 I myself will also walk in hostility against you and strike you seven times on account of your sins. 26:25 I will bring on you an avenging sword, a covenant vengeance. Although you will gather together into your cities, I will send pestilence among you and you will be given into enemy hands. 26:26 When I break off your supply of bread, ten women will bake your bread in one oven; they will ration your bread by weight, and you will eat and not be satisfied. 26:27 "'If in spite of this you do not obey me but walk in hostility against me, 26:28 I will walk in hostile rage against you and I myself will also discipline you seven times on account of your sins. 26:29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters. 26:30 I will destroy your high places and cut down your incense altars, and I will stack your dead bodies on top of the lifeless bodies of your idols. I will abhor you. 26:31 I will lay your cities waste and make your sanctuaries desolate, and I will refuse to smell your soothing aromas. 26:32 I myself will make the land desolate and your enemies who live in it will be appalled. 26:33 I will scatter you among the nations and unsheathe the sword after you, so your land will become desolate and your cities will become a waste. 26:34 "'Then the land will make up for its Sabbaths all the days it lies desolate while you are in the land of your enemies; then the land will rest and make up its Sabbaths. 26:35 All the days of the desolation it will have the rest it did not have on your Sabbaths when you lived on it. 26:36 "'As for the ones who remain among you, I will bring despair into their hearts in the lands of their enemies. The sound of a blowing leaf will pursue them, and they will flee as one who flees the sword and fall down even though there is no pursuer. 26:37 They will stumble over each other as those who flee before a sword, though there is no pursuer, and there will be no one to take a stand for you before your enemies. 26:38 You will perish among the nations; the land of your enemies will consume you. Restoration through Confession and Repentance 26:39 "'As for the ones who remain among you, they will rot away because of their iniquity in the lands of your enemies, and they will also rot away because of their ancestors' iniquities which are with them. 26:40 However, when they confess their iniquity and their ancestors' iniquity which they committed by trespassing against me, by which they also walked in hostility against me 26:41 (and I myself will walk in hostility against them and bring them into the land of their enemies), and then their uncircumcised hearts become humbled and they make up for their iniquity, 26:42 I will remember my covenant with Jacob and also my covenant with Isaac and also my covenant with Abraham, and I will remember the land. 26:43 The land will be abandoned by them in order that it may make up for its Sabbaths while it is made desolate without them, and they will make up for their iniquity because they have rejected my regulations and have abhorred my statutes. 26:44 In spite of this, however, when they are in the land of their enemies I will not reject them and abhor them to make a complete end of them, to break my covenant with them, for I am the Lord their God. 26:45 I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors whom I brought out from the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations to be their God. I am the Lord.'" Summary Colophon 26:46 These are the statutes, regulations, and instructions which the Lord established between himself and the Israelites at Mount Sinai through Moses. Redemption of Vowed People 27:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 27:2 "Speak to the Israelites and tell them, 'When a man makes a special votive offering based on the conversion value of persons to the Lord, 27:3 the conversion value of the male from twenty years old up to sixty years old is fifty shekels by the standard of the sanctuary shekel. 27:4 If the person is a female, the conversion value is thirty shekels. 27:5 If the person is from five years old up to twenty years old, the conversion value of the male is twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels. 27:6 If the person is one month old up to five years old, the conversion value of the male is five shekels of silver, and for the female the conversion value is three shekels of silver. 27:7 If the person is from sixty years old and older, if he is a male the conversion value is fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels. 27:8 If he is too poor to pay the conversion value, he must stand the person before the priest and the priest will establish his conversion value; according to what the man who made the vow can afford, the priest will establish his conversion value. Redemption of Vowed Animals 27:9 "'If what is vowed is a kind of animal from which an offering may be presented to the Lord, anything which he gives to the Lord from this kind of animal will be holy. 27:10 He must not replace or exchange it, good for bad or bad for good, and if he does indeed exchange one animal for another animal, then both the original animal and its substitute will be holy. 27:11 If what is vowed is an unclean animal from which an offering must not be presented to the Lord, then he must stand the animal before the priest, 27:12 and the priest will establish its conversion value, whether good or bad. According to the assessed conversion value of the priest, thus it will be. 27:13 If, however, the person who made the vow redeems the animal, he must add one fifth to its conversion value. Redemption of Vowed Houses 27:14 "'If a man consecrates his house as holy to the Lord, the priest will establish its conversion value, whether good or bad. Just as the priest establishes its conversion value, thus it will stand. 27:15 If the one who consecrates it redeems his house, he must add to it one fifth of its conversion value in silver, and it will belong to him. Redemption of Vowed Fields 27:16 "'If a man consecrates to the Lord some of his own landed property, the conversion value must be calculated in accordance with the amount of seed needed to sow it, a homer of barley seed being priced at fifty shekels of silver. 27:17 If he consecrates his field in the jubilee year, the conversion value will stand, 27:18 but if he consecrates his field after the jubilee, the priest will calculate the price for him according to the years that are left until the next jubilee year, and it will be deducted from the conversion value. 27:19 If, however, the one who consecrated the field redeems it, he must add to it one fifth of the conversion price and it will belong to him. 27:20 If he does not redeem the field, but sells the field to someone else, he may never redeem it. 27:21 When it reverts in the jubilee, the field will be holy to the Lord like a permanently dedicated field; it will become the priest's property. 27:22 "'If he consecrates to the Lord a field he has purchased, which is not part of his own landed property, 27:23 the priest will calculate for him the amount of its conversion value until the jubilee year, and he must pay the conversion value on that jubilee day as something that is holy to the Lord. 27:24 In the jubilee year the field will return to the one from whom he bought it, the one to whom it belongs as landed property. 27:25 Every conversion value must be calculated by the standard of the sanctuary shekel; twenty gerahs to the shekel. Redemption of the Firstborn 27:26 "'Surely no man may consecrate a firstborn that already belongs to the Lord as a firstborn among the animals; whether it is an ox or a sheep, it belongs to the Lord. 27:27 If, however, it is among the unclean animals, he may ransom it according to its conversion value and must add one fifth to it, but if it is not redeemed it must be sold according to its conversion value. Things Permanently Dedicated to the Lord 27:28 "'Surely anything which a man permanently dedicates to the Lord from all that belongs to him, whether from people, animals, or his landed property, must be neither sold nor redeemed; anything permanently dedicated is most holy to the Lord. 27:29 Any human being who is permanently dedicated must not be ransomed; such a person must be put to death. Redemption of the Tithe 27:30 "'Any tithe of the land, from the grain of the land or from the fruit of the trees, belongs to the Lord; it is holy to the Lord. 27:31 If a man redeems part of his tithe, however, he must add one fifth to it. 27:32 All the tithe of herd or flock, everything which passes under the rod, the tenth one will be holy to the Lord. 27:33 The owner must not examine the animals to distinguish between good and bad, and he must not exchange it. If, however, he does exchange it, both the original animal and its substitute will be holy. It must not be redeemed.'" Final Colophon 27:34 These are the commandments which the Lord commanded Moses to tell the Israelites at Mount Sinai. Prayer Lord, may I be found increasingly obedient to You so that I may be blessed as You pour Your blessings through me into others -- I serve merely as Your humble and imperfect vessel. Commentary The Lord God called the people to obedience, to make no idols, and to remember always that He is Lord. He presented the Israelites with a stark contrast between the blessings He desired to pour out upon them, and through them into the fallen world, and the terrible consequences of unrepentant rebellion. He then reviewed the statutes, regulations, and instructions of the covenant with the Israelites. Interaction Consider this: The Lord God had amazing plans to bless Israel. Discuss this: What would cause Israel to choose rebellion and therefore to both lose the blessings and to receive the curses? Reflect on this: The Lord God repeated in layers of systems (the sacrificial system, the rules and regulations of their business and interpersonal lives, and the contrast between blessing and curse based on their obedience), and also in a variety of ways (demonstrations of power, withheld judgment, His finger of writing on the stone tablets) His simple message of hope and promise -- all predicated on the keeping of the covenant to which Israel had agreed -- to be priest-led and to live holy before a God Who wanted to bless them. Share this: When have you known what was the right thing to do, something that would lead to positive results, and you still chose to go a different way -- a way that you knew would lead to trouble? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you are in rebellion against Him. Action: Today I will confess, repent, seek and receive forgiveness for my rebellion. I will surrender more intimately myself to the leadership of the Holy Spirit so as to make it less likely that my rebellion with reoccur. My rebellion may be cheating, lying, laziness, disrespect, neglect of responsibilities to others, neglect of my relationship with God, idolatry of self, idolatry of others, etc. Every sin is an act of rebellion, even when that sin persists in the heart and is never realized in the external flesh. I will pray to be transformed so that I am a cleaner and more useful vessel for God's love in this world. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ */Sunday's text will be: Numbers 1-4/* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Sep 25 20:43:56 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2010 20:43:56 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Numbers 1-4 Message-ID: <4C9E974C.5060903@bibleseven.com> Sunday Numbers 1-4 We have pasted-in the NET Bible text to this point but that is making these studies very large. While we base our studies on the text as found in the NET Bible we are aware that some use a different translation. We will not continue posting the entirety of the NET Bible text in every Study, though we may do so in some Studies, but we will instead include the URL's for the links to that online Bible text. (If this creates a significant problem for anyone please E-mail me privately. I do not want to create a stumbling block to your studies.) The http://bible.org site creates an automatic link to text whenever it detects a Bible reference. They have begun posting these Studies there, beginning with the Gospels in Chronological order. We will be submitting Studies for the entire Bible to them, first completing the NT and then the OT. The NET Bible translator's introduction to the Book of Numbers (or another similar introduction) is very important to understand the role of the Book in the OT and in the Bible as a whole. Here is the text of the NET translators introduction to Numbers followed by links to text of Chapters 1-4 online. "/The book of Numbers is the fourth book of the Pentateuch, traditionally called the Law of Moses. It provides a rec/o/rd of the experience of the Israelites during the wilderness wanderings, and records the laws for the camp as they traveled from place to place. The book focuses on the difficulties of the Israelites due to their lack of faith, rebellion, and apostasy. It also records God's protection of his people from opposition from without. The book makes a fitting contribution to the collection of holy writings as it shows the spiritual and physical progression of the company of the redeemed toward the promised land. The book has to be studied in conjunction with the other books of the Pentateuch. It builds on the promises made to Abraham in Genesis and the redemption from bondage in Exodus; it completes the cultic instructions for Israel that were laid down in Leviticus, and it concerns the worship in and the movement of the tabernacle that was built in Exodus. But the information here, both legal and historical, was not the major concern in those books. The book gets its title in English (following the Greek tradition) from the two censuses taken of the people, one at the beginning of the wanderings and the other at the end (although the Hebrew title is taken from the beginning of the book, //???????????? //[bammidbar], "in the wilderness"). In these lists particular emphasis is given to the leaders of the clans, a theme that will continue in the book as the focus is on how the leaders function in all the trials and temptations of the journey. The material in this book is essentially a theological interpretation of historical events, and as such it stands as an integral part of the revelation of God. In the study of the book of Numbers, when these issues of the nature of the text are significant to the interpretation and acceptance of the text, the notes will comment on them briefly. The indication at the outset of the book is that Moses had a good number of people who were able to help him compile the statistics and the facts of the wandering community. In Num 11:16-18 there is a group of leaders known as //??????????//(shott?rim). This term was used in Exod 5:16-19 to describe the officers or foremen of the Israelites. They were appointed supervisors of the clans by Moses, and by the time of Joshua (Josh 1:10) they were a literary guild. The Hebrew word, cognate with Akkadian sataru, means "to write." These people were to Israel what the scribes and chroniclers were to the pagan nations. They assisted Moses and the priests in their keeping of records. So no matter what they were called from time to time, there was a group of literate people who could keep the records and preserve the information from the very beginning. Their work matches the activities of scribes in the ancient world who used all the literary devices to preserve the material. There is no reason to doubt that the events recorded were attested to and preserved by such eyewitnesses. But their work would have been essentially to serve the leader, Moses. The book essentially follows the order of the events chronologically, more or less. Where it departs from that order it does so for literary or theological reasons. At the center of the theological concern is the tabernacle, its significance to the faith, and therefore the care in using it and in moving it. Its importance explains the presence and the arrangement of the ritual laws. With the records and statistics provided for him, Moses could then introduce into the record the great events in the wilderness experience of Israel, which were to become warnings and encouragements for all time. Most of this material comes from the two years at the beginning of the experience and the two years at the end. But this itself may be a literary device (merism) to show the nature of the wanderings throughout. The Hebrew text of the book of Numbers has been preserved fairly well. It has not been preserved as well as Leviticus, which was most important to the ministry of the priests and Levites. But in comparison with some of the prophetic writings, Numbers represents a well-preserved text. The problems will be discussed in the relevant passages. So Numbers is essentially a part of the unfolding revelation of the Torah, the Law. It shows God's faithfulness to his covenant plan and to his covenant people, but it also shows the problems incurred by the people's lack of faith and obedience. The book focuses frequently on the nature of the holy Lord God, for at the center of all this material is the person and the works of the Lord. This provided the standard for the faith and practice of the people./" _http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=1 _ _http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter= _2 _http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter= _3 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=4 Prayer Lord, may I be found of some small value in Your great plan so that I, like the Levites, may be Your hands and feet in this world. Commentary The Lord God instructed Moses to conduct a census of the Israelite people. When Moses had counted the Levites God called them apart and numbered them as replacements for the firsborn of all of Israel until the number of Levites ran out -- then Moses assessed 5 sheckels for each firstborn beyond that and the number was 273 -- that money was given to the Levites to meet their needs. [The NET translators observe that this was equal to about 2 ounces of silver per 5 shekels, or converted to US Dollars at a value (in late 2010) of $21. per ounce, or approximately $28,665.] The Levite men, aged 30 to 50 numbered 8,580, we assigned to the transport and care of the tabernacle. Interaction Consider this: The Book of Numbers tells the story of the organization of this moving-city of around a million people, how they would transport and maintain the tabernacle, and how they would interact with God through the covenant to which they had agreed. Discuss this: Imagine being one of the 8,580 men to whom it was assigned, in great detail, the transport and care for the Lord God's tabernacle. How would you react to such an assignment? Reflect on this: The Lord God essentially bought the Levites from the rest of Israel -- counting them as the fee owed to Him -- then placing them in service to the tabernacle. Share this: When have you been given an assignment to serve God in a specific and tangeable way? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where and how He is either using you right now, or where He wants you to be His hands and His feet. Action: Today I will praise God for allowing me to be a part of His plan. I will prepare myself as He directs, I will serve with a heart of joy and an eye to excellence, and I will prayerfully ask that I am continuously valuable in His service. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Numbers 5-8 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Sep 26 20:20:59 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 20:20:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Numbers 5-8 Message-ID: <4C9FE36B.3030101@bibleseven.com> Monday Numbers 5-8 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=5 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=6 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=7 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=8 Prayer Lord, every sin we commit against another person we first commit against You; may I be ever mindful of that and may that awareness strengthen me against the temptation to sin. Commentary The Lord God commanded, as He had previously taught, that Moses put every leper, everyone with a discharge, and anyone defiled by a corpse outside the camp. This served both to protect against a plague and enforced the general sense of holiness among the people. [He had elsewhere in Leviticus described the means of restoration.] He declared that any sin that people committed broke faith with Him. They were to confess and repent and make reparations to the one they offended, and if that person was unavailable then to a close relative, and lacking that to the high priest. If a husband suspected his wife of infidelity he was to bring her to the priest who would administer the rite of bitter water. If guilty the Lord would make her physically ill and if not she would be symptom-free. If guilty she, and other man, would receive the punishment for adultery described elsewhere in Leviticus. A man or a woman is permitted to voluntarily take a Nazarite vow. This set them apart to the service of the Lord. There were a number of special restrictions and requirements thereafter. The Lord God provided Aaron a priestly blessing to speak to the people and He promised to bless them as a result: "/The Lord bless you and protect you; / /The Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you; / /The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace./" When the dedication of the altar had been completed "... Moses went into the tent of meeting to speak with the Lord, he heard the voice speaking to him from above the atonement lid that was on the ark of the testimony, from between the two cherubim." The Lord God then gave Moses some additional instructions about the lighting of the lamps and the separation of the Levites from the rest of the Israelite population. He also instructed that the Levites were available to work in the tabernacle at the age of 25 but had to retire at age 50. after 50 they could assist others but to not do the work themselves. Interaction Consider this: Every sin we commit against others is first committed against God because He is holy and we belong to Him. Discuss this: The Lord God knew that jealously related to a husband suspicious of his wife could lead to him attacking her and her presumed lover in a jealous rage -- is it not an excellent solution to require him to bring her to the priest for God's judgment? Reflect on this: Both men and women were allowed the honor of choosing to take a Nazarite vow to serve the Lord God. This is another evidence that He did not reserve all duties related to His work to males only. Share this: When have you observed a jealous person reacting irrationally? Can you see a value in a system that requires one to bring the accused into a neutral place of evaluation rather than every person being their own judge and priest? Faith in Action Prayer Ask the Holy Spirit to show you how the "priestly prayer" given to Aaron for the people might still be an encouragement to you and to others. Action Today I will read aloud and/or quietly the "priestly prayer" at least three times -- in the morning, at mid-day, and again in the evening. I will meditate on the words and their meaning and prayerfully ask the Holy Spirit to enlighten my heart. I will share with a fellow believer what I learned. "/The Lord bless you and protect you; / /The Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you; / /The Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace./" Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Numbers 9-10 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ebenezeriesous at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 19:28:51 2010 From: ebenezeriesous at gmail.com (Robert Poppo) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 19:28:51 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux In-Reply-To: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com> References: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com> On 09/27/2010 06:47 PM, Robert Poppo wrote: > Hi, I'm a christain- born again of the Holy Ghost. A fellow brother > told me about linux. Although > I'm just a beginner on the computer, Linux is a lot better than > windows. My wife bought a lap top, which had Windows 7 in it, and John > (the fellow Brother) put a partition in it. Then windows became > infected and John had to fix it (which he did) ; but Linux was ok. > Then something happened again to Windows 7 and linux was temporarily > altered and eventually linux wouldn't work either. So John booted up > Linux immediately but Windows 7 needed a disk to be repaired. As a > result. John gave me a 10.04 ubuntu Linux disk. My computer has been > running well ever since and the partition with Window 7 was removed. > Result, this computer is Linux Only. > > I shared this because the Lord Jesus said that many people will > travel the broad way and few will > travel the narrow way that leads to the strait gate, which leads to > eternal life. Just like windows, it's easy to go along with the crowd > in life. But when Judgment Day comes it won't help, those people will > be condemned to hell for their sin; just like I would've been unless > the Lord Jesus saved me. Jesus said, "narrow in the way that leads to > life and there be few that find it." The question therefore is, "How > much do you want eternal life"? Jesus said He is the only way to > Heaven and no-one will enter except through Him (John 14:6).So then > the next question is, "Why Jesus and not someone else"? The answer is > that the Lord Jesus in the only person to pay for the sins of the > world and in turn totally satisfy God the Father's Wrath for all > eternity (John 19:30). Sin is the violation of God's Law (I John 3:4), > the Ten Commandments > If you break one you break all of them (James 2:10-11) and are guilty > before a Holy God and are totally worthy of eternal death, Hell > (Romans 6:23) This is why Jesus is the only way to heaven; He lived a > perfect life under the Law and paid the entire price for everyone's > sin for all eternity. Scripture says, "That if thou shalt confess with > thy mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in thine heart that God raised > him from the dead thou shalt be saved." (Romans 10:9) > > Ask The Lord Jesus to take your life and control it and trust in Him > as your only way to get to Heaven. Your choice, narrow way(Linux) or > the broad way(Windows). > > > Sincerely in His Grace, > > > Robert Poppo From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Sep 27 21:21:00 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:21:00 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Numbers 9-10 Message-ID: <4CA142FC.8080402@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Numbers 9-10 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=9 http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=10 Prayer Lord, You understand our circumstances and You make a way for us to meet Your expectations -- whether it was in the OT celebration of the Passover or today when life challenges us with seeming impossible situations. May I never doubt that You know, You care, and You will make a way. Commentary The Lord God reminded the people, through Moses, to remember to keep the Passover. Some men came to Moses asking about keeping the Passover if they were ceremonially unclean and God said they, as well as Israelites who were far away at Passover -- a special Passover celebration would be provided 4 weeks later. He also provided that a resident foreigner would be allowed to celebrate the Passover. Those who were present and who failed to celebrate the Passover were to be "cut-off" from the people and would thereafter bear the consequences of their sin without access to the tabernacle. The Lord instructed that He would, as during the Exodus, lead them with a cloud and a column of fire and they would travel whenever the cloud was lifted. The Lord instructed that Moses have a trumpet made of silver and to use it to lead the people in assembly, travel, alarm, and rejoicing. The Israelites began their travel away from Sinai to Kadesh "On the twentieth day of the second month, in the second year." The tribe of Judah led. Moses asked Hobab, a Moabite and a relative through Jethro, to travel with them as he knew the land and resources well and he agreed. Interaction Consider this: God did not have to provide an alternative for people to celebrate Passover, but He did. Discuss this: It has been over two years since the Exodus -- how excited must the Israelites have been to finally begin their travel to the promised land? Reflect on this: Those who could celebrate the Passover when scheduled and who chose to be rebellious and ungrateful were disfellowshipped. To not do so would have allowed disunity within the community. Share this: When have you known that you should participate in a time of fellowship but made excuses and did not bother to do so? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where He has been calling you to participate in fellowship or to prayer or study in His Word and you have not done so. Action: Today I will repent of carelessness about time in fellowship with fellow believers and with God as well as time in the Word. I agree to listen closely to the call of the Holy Spirit and to obey. As necessary I will ask a fellow believer to pray for me and to hold me accountable. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Numbers 11 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa3fkg at gmail.com Mon Sep 27 21:56:43 2010 From: wa3fkg at gmail.com (Ken Sprouse) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 21:56:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux In-Reply-To: <4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com> References: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com> <4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: n Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Robert Poppo wrote: > On 09/27/2010 06:47 PM, Robert Poppo wrote: > >> Ask The Lord Jesus to take your life and control it and trust in Him as >> your only way to get to Heaven. Your choice, narrow way(Linux) or the broad >> way(Windows). >> >> >> Sincerely in His Grace, >> >> >> Robert Poppo >> > I work in IT and I have to say I have never thought of Linux quite that way before. It does make a certain amount of sense though. I typing this on a new "generic" desk top box that I just put together with an AMD quad core processor, 4 gigs of RAM, ab Nvidia GForce video card with 1 gig of RAM and a 1 terabyte hard drive. With all that hard drive space I could easily have installed both Windows and Linux on the system but I didn't even consider it. I installed Ubuntu 10.04 and once I have everything configured exactly the way I want it I may install Virtual Box and set up a Windows virtual machine if I have some reason that I absolutely need to run Windows. I try not to let the Windows vs Linux debate become a religious war in my work or dealings with other computer users but I am not shy about telling them that I use Linux, why I use it and why I think it is a better platform. -- Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG John 3:16 http://wa3fkg.blogspot.com You meet the nicest people at a TEA Party. The box said "Win98/2000/XP or better" so I installed Linux! Smith & Wesson - The ultimate point and click user interface. If handguns cause crime, mine is defective. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Tue Sep 28 01:51:05 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:51:05 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com> <4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1285653065.4630.31.camel@P-733-Lin> On Mon, 2010-09-27 at 21:56 -0400, Ken Sprouse wrote: > n Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Robert Poppo > wrote: > On 09/27/2010 06:47 PM, Robert Poppo wrote: > Ask The Lord Jesus to take your life and control it > and trust in Him as your only way to get to Heaven. > Your choice, narrow way(Linux) or the broad > way(Windows). > > > Sincerely in His Grace, > > > Robert Poppo > > > I work in IT and I have to say I have never thought of Linux quite > that way before. It does make a certain amount of sense though. I > typing this on a new "generic" desk top box that I just put together > with an AMD quad core processor, 4 gigs of RAM, ab Nvidia GForce video > card with 1 gig of RAM and a 1 terabyte hard drive. With all that > hard drive space I could easily have installed both Windows and Linux > on the system but I didn't even consider it. I installed Ubuntu 10.04 > and once I have everything configured exactly the way I want it I may > install Virtual Box and set up a Windows virtual machine if I have > some reason that I absolutely need to run Windows. I've been wanting to do that, but they are not selling the starter edition of Win7 here, to my knowledge, and I'm not too keen on ponying up over $100C for a system that takes too much time and energy to keep running. > I try not to let the Windows vs Linux debate become a religious war > in my work or dealings with other computer users but I am not shy > about telling them that I use Linux, why I use it and why I think it > is a better platform. The other night the guys at work were talking about how they kept the Win installs secure, I had honestly forgotten what kind of a pain it can be. I asked them why they did all of that, when I just ran a firewall on my router, I guess I'm kind of spoiled. Not to mention I only replatform a system when I want to change the distro, not because it has once again become time. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 02:58:08 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:58:08 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian Message-ID: Now I want to clarify once more, my stand on this issue. In my opinion, sex is for reproduction. As such, gay/lesbian, is sure a perversion of nature as their sex behavior is not intended to produce offspring. But, I beg your pardon to ask this question (but you do not need to answer me, just answer it to yourselves): How many times in your life when you were having sex, your intention was to produce offspring? Surprisingly, even christian book also promote pleasure/enjoyment in sex, not solely to produce offspring: http://www.amazon.com/Intended-Pleasure-Technique-Fulfillment-Christian/dp/0800717368 Intended for Pleasure: Sex Technique and Sexual Fulfillment in Christian Marriage, Third Edition As we all know, sex is, by nature, the tool to produce offspring. So, even a legitimate sex done by couples already legally married in the church, if done without the intention to produce offspring, is a perversion of nature (the same behavior as gay/lesbian's), am I right? No wonder the Pope against the use of condom ..... DK Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. From lists at runyanrants.net Tue Sep 28 09:05:08 2010 From: lists at runyanrants.net (Legatus) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 08:05:08 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Where is your scripture to support your belief that sex in mariage for pleasure is going against the laws of God. Since God's creatures do not have one way to act as a family. Shall I use the baboon or the wolf as my guide. If it is the wolf then I need to go beat down some men and add their wives to my pack. There are few laws of nature that hold true when evaluated outside of narrow confines of the defined argument. I do not read Solomon trying to coax his wife into his bed for merely procreation. It was pleasure for them both that he spoke of. Do not try to find sinful equivilence to God pleasing behavior. To make Good look as evil is just as troublesome in watering down the scripture as making evil look as Good. Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Romans 14:16 Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. On 2010-09-28, David Kuntadi wrote: > Now I want to clarify once more, my stand on this issue. > In my opinion, sex is for reproduction. As such, gay/lesbian, is sure > a perversion of nature as their sex behavior is not intended to > produce offspring. > But, I beg your pardon to ask this question (but you do not need to > answer me, just answer it to yourselves): > > How many times in your life when you were having sex, your intention > was to produce offspring? > > Surprisingly, even christian book also promote pleasure/enjoyment in > sex, not solely to produce offspring: > > http://www.amazon.com/Intended-Pleasure-Technique-Fulfillment-Christian/dp/0800717368 > Intended for Pleasure: Sex Technique and Sexual Fulfillment in > Christian Marriage, Third Edition > > As we all know, sex is, by nature, the tool to produce offspring. > So, even a legitimate sex done by couples already legally married in > the church, if done without the intention to produce offspring, is a > perversion of nature (the same behavior as gay/lesbian's), am I right? > > No wonder the Pope against the use of condom ..... > > DK > > Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, > but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? > Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote > out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? > Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; > and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy > brother's eye. > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- JD Runyan From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 09:19:52 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:19:52 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Legatus wrote: > Where is your scripture to support your belief that sex in mariage for > pleasure is going against the laws of God. I said nature, not God. Sex, by nature is for procreation, not for entertainment. Or, please tell me what is the different between gay/lesbian, and heterosex if both regard sex as entertainment? Anyway, please see below scripture: Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 10:28:40 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 09:28:40 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> On 9/28/2010 8:19 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 8:05 PM, Legatus wrote: >> Where is your scripture to support your belief that sex in mariage for >> pleasure is going against the laws of God. > I said nature, not God. Sex, by nature is for procreation, not for > entertainment. Or, please tell me what is the different between > gay/lesbian, and heterosex if both regard sex as entertainment? > God gave mankind the gift of sexual relations to be shared only between a husband and a wife and within that context it is to be enjoyed. Proverbs 5:18--19 (NKJV) Let your fountain be blessed, And rejoice with the wife of your youth. As a loving deer and a graceful doe, Let her breasts satisfy you at all times; And always be enraptured with her love. Hebrews 13:4 (KJV) Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. 1 Corinthians 7:8--9 (KJV) I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. Outside of the context that God has given this gift it is sin, plain and simple. Leviticus 20:10--13 (KJV) And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death. And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. ...... 1 Corinthians 6:9--11 (KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. > Anyway, please see below scripture: > > Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their > mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of > men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the > kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him > receive it. > 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is > good for a man not to touch a woman. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 10:28:19 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:28:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA1FB83.1000308@bibleseven.com> You are not correct. Reading a modern English translation with translators notes, like the NET Bible, would be helpful. Therein you will discover many places where the Bible teaches that spouses are not to withhold sexual contact from one-another -- there is no requirement in those texts that said sexual contact must *only* be for the purpose of reproduction. Also, the Song of Solomon describes sexual interaction and also does not require that such contact be *only* for the purpose of reproduction. We must be very careful to avoid reading-in meaning where it is not in the Biblical text. > As we all know, sex is, by nature, the tool to produce offspring. > So, even a legitimate sex done by couples already legally married in > the church, if done without the intention to produce offspring, is a > perversion of nature (the same behavior as gay/lesbian's), am I right? > > DK -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 10:33:57 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:33:57 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > On 9/28/2010 8:19 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > God gave mankind the gift of sexual relations to be shared only between a > husband and a wife and within that context it is to be enjoyed. Then why Jesus is not married? Paul is not married, and even now Pope and catholic pastors are not married? And you have not commented on below scripture: > Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their > mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of > men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the > kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him > receive it. > 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is > good for a man not to touch a woman. DK From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 11:02:24 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:02:24 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David: > No wonder the Pope against the use of condom ..... > > DK Since when are the popes a standard for morals and doctrine ABOVE Scriptures? You really need to read the book "Unzipped: The Popes Bare All : A Frank Study of Sex and Corruption in the Vatican" (http://www.amazon.com/Unzipped-Popes-Frank-Corruption-Vatican/dp/0910309434) Quite an eye opener! The morals of the Vatican since its beginning in 313 A.D. have nothing whatsoever to do with the morals that God requires of spiritual leadershp. In many deacdes of international ministry, have been around many who hold your unbiblical position of sex only for proceration. These people have some of the highest incidences of adultery I have seen. Dr. Steve, central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5486 (20100928) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 11:02:24 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:02:24 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: David: > No wonder the Pope against the use of condom ..... > > DK Since when are the popes a standard for morals and doctrine ABOVE Scriptures? You really need to read the book "Unzipped: The Popes Bare All : A Frank Study of Sex and Corruption in the Vatican" (http://www.amazon.com/Unzipped-Popes-Frank-Corruption-Vatican/dp/0910309434) Quite an eye opener! The morals of the Vatican since its beginning in 313 A.D. have nothing whatsoever to do with the morals that God requires of spiritual leadershp. In many deacdes of international ministry, have been around many who hold your unbiblical position of sex only for proceration. These people have some of the highest incidences of adultery I have seen. Dr. Steve, central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5486 (20100928) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 11:10:57 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:10:57 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: [Sorry for the unintentional double post, my friends! A senior moment!] Dr. Steve, central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5486 (20100928) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 28 11:42:12 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:42:12 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:33:57 +0700") References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: > Paul is not married, and even now Pope > and catholic pastors are not married? But Peter was married, and so were other apostles and church fathers. In other words, some marry, some do not. Nothing more. And both celibacy and marriage are given due respect in scripture, in appropriate contexts for each. You have to ask yourself, When did RCC priestly celibacy come about? It was not so, from the beginning. After all, and to repeat myself, Peter was married, and RCC claims him as first pope. In any event, papal pre-eminence was a new invention in 1215AD at the 4th Lateran Council. I believe that is also when the matter of RCC priestly celibacy was declared, which is overtly contrary to scripture in e.g. 1Tim 3 and Tit 1, where we are told the leaders of the church are to be married and have a demonstrably well-managed home life before they are permitted to take charge of the management of church life. A quick wikipedia check says it was somewhere in Canons 14-18 of that council. But this nonsense became part of RCC tradition nonetheless. Scripture trumps tradition, every single time. Jesus spent an inordinate fraction of his (recorded) earthly life in the necessity of beating up religious leaders about their preference for their traditions over the commands of scripture. I wonder if Jesus ever met a Pharisee or Sadducee whose company he just plain liked. I rather doubt it. From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 11:45:47 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:45:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Did Jesus Like Any Pharisee or Sadducee? [Was: OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian] In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA20DAB.6080409@bibleseven.com> He seemed a bit fond of the confused-but-curious Nicodemus. :-) > I wonder if Jesus ever met a Pharisee or Sadducee whose company he just > plain liked. I rather doubt it. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 11:52:35 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 10:52:35 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA20F43.3070000@staggs.net> On 9/28/2010 9:33 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 9:28 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> On 9/28/2010 8:19 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> God gave mankind the gift of sexual relations to be shared only between a >> husband and a wife and within that context it is to be enjoyed. > Then why Jesus is not married? Paul is not married, and even now Pope > and catholic pastors are not married? > What about Peter? Matthew 8:14 (KJV) And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his *wife's mother* laid, and sick of a fever. Paul certainly was not against married men from holding offices within the Church. 1 Timothy 3:1--4 (KJV) This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A bishop then must be blameless, the *husband of one wife*, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 1 Timothy 3:12 (KJV) Let the deacons be the *husbands of one wife*, ruling their children and their own houses well. Titus 1:5--9 (KJV) For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the *husband of one wife*, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 1 Corinthians 9:3--5 (KJV) Mine answer to them that do examine me is this, Have we not power to eat and to drink? Have we not power to lead about a sister, *a wife*, as well as other apostles, and as *the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas*? I am not Catholic and therefore I can not address their practices, other than to say, from the outside looking in it would "appear" that some of these requirements have caused undo suffering lately. > And you have not commented on below scripture: > No I did no believe it was necessary considering the Scripture I have already offered, but apparently I wrongly assumed. Let's deal with the quotation from Matthew, but we must first set the "context": Matthew 19:3 (KJV) The Pharisees also came unto him, *tempting him*, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for *every cause*? The Pharisees are "tempting him" in a misguided attempt to twist the Scriptures out of context to meet their own desires. But as always, the Lord is able to turn the tables on them and teach us something while doing it. Matthew 19:4--6 (KJV) And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, And said, *For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh*? Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder. Clearly the Lord is reaffirming the sanctity and scope of marriage. The Pharisees ever looking for a loophole, remind the Lord that the law allowed for divorce. Matthew 19:8--9 (KJV) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, *except it be for fornication*, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. Again the Lord reaffirms the magnitude of marriage and the consequences for trying to pervert what God intended. So with the weight of His answer heavy on the minds they conclude that perhaps marriage is not worth the risk. Matthew 19:10--12 (KJV) His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, *All men cannot receive this saying*, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs *for the kingdom of heaven's sake*. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. The disciples point blank ask Him "if ... it is not good to marry" and He dose not confirm their inquiry and considering His previous statements it would be unnecessary as He has already given His Blessing to the union between man and woman. He does however introduce a new state of being into the conversation. Some eunuchs are created by man, meaning they did not choice to be celibate but rather were emasculated and the choice was made for them. But still others were ordain by God to be total dedicated to His Calling and Work and therefore it would be more expedient for them to not be burdened by the responsibility of a spouse and family. Paul also states this: 1 Corinthians 7:1--9 (KJV) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: *It is good for a man not to touch a woman.** **Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband*. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. *But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment*. For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore *to the unmarried and widows*, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: *for it is better to marry than to burn*. To be celibate would obviously be an advantage in some Callings, but not at the expense of lusting and it certiainly not required for all clurgy. That is what I believe is being taught here. >> Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their >> mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of >> men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the >> kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him >> receive it. >> 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is >> good for a man not to touch a woman. > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 12:10:31 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:10:31 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com> <4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4CA21377.5090401@staggs.net> Honestly, I believe that such overly zealous statements and unnecessary Gates/Microsoft bashing tend to do more damage to the Linux cause than good. Admintidlay I have a foot in both worlds and my perspective my be different from the average Joe. Just a thought.... -- bstaggs <>< > n Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Robert Poppo > wrote: > > On 09/27/2010 06:47 PM, Robert Poppo wrote: > > Ask The Lord Jesus to take your life and control it and trust > in Him as your only way to get to Heaven. Your choice, narrow > way(Linux) or the broad way(Windows). > > > Sincerely in His Grace, > > > Robert Poppo > > > I work in IT and I have to say I have never thought of Linux quite > that way before. It does make a certain amount of sense though. I > typing this on a new "generic" desk top box that I just put together > with an AMD quad core processor, 4 gigs of RAM, ab Nvidia GForce video > card with 1 gig of RAM and a 1 terabyte hard drive. With all that > hard drive space I could easily have installed both Windows and Linux > on the system but I didn't even consider it. I installed Ubuntu 10.04 > and once I have everything configured exactly the way I want it I may > install Virtual Box and set up a Windows virtual machine if I have > some reason that I absolutely need to run Windows. I try not to let > the Windows vs Linux debate become a religious war in my work or > dealings with other computer users but I am not shy about telling them > that I use Linux, why I use it and why I think it is a better platform. > > > -- > Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG John 3:16 http://wa3fkg.blogspot.com > You meet the nicest people at a TEA Party. > The box said "Win98/2000/XP or better" so I installed Linux! > Smith & Wesson - The ultimate point and click user interface. > If handguns cause crime, mine is defective. > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Tue Sep 28 13:47:57 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:47:57 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <4CA20F43.3070000@staggs.net> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA20F43.3070000@staggs.net> Message-ID: There appear to be three issues being discussed here: Whether it is desirable/acceptable to marry at all; whether married persons may enjoy sexual relations without procreation; and how to respond to homosexuality. Billy, Karl, and Steve answered the first two quite well, but there is much dissent within the Church on the third. I see people throwing around small parts of Scripture out of context to support one opinion or the other, and the only result is hate and hostility. This makes me sad. I do believe that there are places in the Bible where God clearly states that homosexual relations are a sin, most notably the ones referring to a man lying with another man. 1 Corinthians 6:9?11 isn't so obvious: The Greek word used here is "malakos", which merely means "soft". The exact same word is used in Matthew 11:8 when Jesus asks the crowd "What did you go out to see? [referring to John the Baptist] "A man wearing fine clothes [malakos]?" However, because of Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 (shall not lie with another man...) it really doesn't matter whether you interpret Matthew 11:8 as referring to homosexuality or not. It was already established that God considers those acts offensive. BUT -- Those laws prescribe the stoning to death of all who engage in those acts (along with various forms of incest, bestiality, and witchcraft). By not obeying the demand for death, we ourselves are guilty of disobeying a direct order from God. Furthermore, look at the surrounding chapters. Lev 19 forbids such detestable practices as planting two different kinds of seed in the same field, seeking revenge, wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, holding a grudge, cutting the hair at the sides or top of your head... God doesn't grade sin; He's not up there saying "Well, Peter got a haircut so that's 5 points off, but Bruce is gay so that's 1000 points off!" Sin is sin is sin is sin. I sin when I drink too much; Bruce (apologies to anyone on the list actually named Bruce; just picked a hypothetical name) sins when he has sexual relations with his male partner. So. Should we denounce gays as particularly offensive to God as though we ourselves are free of sin? Should we criminalize them, banish them from God's house? Should we boycott businesses we suspect employ homosexuals? How about hold protests at their funerals holding up signs proclaiming how much God hates them? I really don't see why people have so much trouble with Matthew 22:39. In fact, Jesus was merely quoting a law that comes right from the heart of Leviticus where we find all those "Thou shalt nots" -- Leviticus 19:18 follows "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against your neighbor, but love your neighbor as yourself." Even if you believe in your heart that God hates the homosexual act more than He hates, say, drunkenness or gossip or wearing a gold Rolex paid for by the offerings sent in by starving widows who believe every word you say (sorry, that's a separate rant), that's the act itself, NOT the person. Welcome that miserable rotten sinner into your church, extend a Christian hand of fellowship, and see if we can actually live up to the two great commandments. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 28 14:53:17 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:53:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:58:08 +0700") References: Message-ID: I wanted to come back to one point from the original proponent's 1st note, in this paragraph: David Kuntadi writes: > So, even a legitimate sex done by couples already legally married in > the church, if done without the intention to produce offspring, is a > perversion of nature (the same behavior as gay/lesbian's), am I right? It is necessary, I think, to observe a natural outcome of this attitude: By the above logic, post-menopausal marriages are doomed to a sexless existence for the remaining 2 or 3 or N decades of life. After all, with the wife having passed through menopause, the couple have no rational expectation (much less "intention," as stated above) of the woman ever again becoming pregnant; therefore, any sex is, by the above definition, perversion. OK, show of hands: All married people who intend to go without sex for the rest of your lives after the wife passes age 45 (or thereabouts). [ ...crickets chirp into the still night air... ] No, David, you're not right. Not even a little bit, as even the most cursory reading of Song of Solomon would show you. From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 14:52:17 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:52:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's Message-ID: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> The next time you hear Apple pretending to have invented the tablet PC share this: http://tuxmobil.org/tablet_unix.html "An overview of Linux installations on Tablet PCs, NotePads, WebPads, PenPCs, SmartDisplays, Convertibles and Slates. At the bottom of this page there is a survey of Linux applications and drivers useful for TabletPCs." Rather than Apple or Google-Android or MS or Palm the superior solution will eventually come from the open-source Linux world - both because we have more experience with the technology and because we are more adaptable. Somewhere a hardware manufacturer with the capacity to bring a solid piece of hardware to the table will team with Linux and *then* there will be some good fun! -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 15:23:42 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:23:42 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 11:52 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > The next time you hear Apple pretending to have invented the tablet PC > share this: http://tuxmobil.org/tablet_unix.html > > "An overview of Linux installations on Tablet > PCs, NotePads, WebPads, > PenPCs, SmartDisplays, Convertibles and Slates. At the bottom of this > page > there is a survey of Linux applications and drivers useful for > TabletPCs." > > Rather than Apple or Google-Android or MS or Palm the superior solution > will eventually come from the open-source Linux world - both because we > have more experience with the technology and because we are more > adaptable. > > Somewhere a hardware manufacturer with the capacity to bring a solid > piece > of hardware to the table will team with Linux and *then* there will be > some > good fun! > The Joojoo was an admirable attempt, but it came out the same day as the iPad (IIRC) and suffered from a few usability quirks, so I don't know if it'll catch on now. http://thejoojoo.com http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/ Anybody know of any other recent tablets? From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 15:26:53 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 12:26:53 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4CA2417D.2000308@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 12:23 PM, Eddy Martin wrote: > On 09/28/2010 11:52 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: >> The next time you hear Apple pretending to have invented the tablet PC >> share this: http://tuxmobil.org/tablet_unix.html >> >> "An overview of Linux installations on Tablet >> PCs, NotePads, WebPads, >> PenPCs, SmartDisplays, Convertibles and Slates. At the bottom of this >> page >> there is a survey of Linux applications and drivers useful for >> TabletPCs." >> >> Rather than Apple or Google-Android or MS or Palm the superior solution >> will eventually come from the open-source Linux world - both because we >> have more experience with the technology and because we are more >> adaptable. >> >> Somewhere a hardware manufacturer with the capacity to bring a solid >> piece >> of hardware to the table will team with Linux and *then* there will >> be some >> good fun! >> > The Joojoo was an admirable attempt, but it came out the same day as > the iPad (IIRC) and suffered from a few usability quirks, so I don't > know if it'll catch on now. > http://thejoojoo.com > http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/ > > Anybody know of any other recent tablets? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians Oops... perhaps I questioned too soon. That Tuxmobil page has a bunch of compatible models, and a very nice list of applications that would come in VERY handy to convert any linux installation into a touchy-feely tablet powerhouse. Thanks Dave! I'll be looking further... From gorkon at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 15:47:20 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:47:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> Message-ID: The Joojoo, if memory serves, also only would work with web applications. You could not install software on it (well unless you were at all like most people on this list....). On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Eddy Martin wrote: > ?On 09/28/2010 11:52 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: >> >> The next time you hear Apple pretending to have invented the tablet PC >> share this: http://tuxmobil.org/tablet_unix.html >> >> "An overview of Linux installations on Tablet PCs, >> NotePads, WebPads, >> PenPCs, SmartDisplays, Convertibles and Slates. At the bottom of this page >> there is a survey of Linux applications and drivers useful for TabletPCs." >> >> Rather than Apple or Google-Android or MS or Palm the superior solution >> will eventually come from the open-source Linux world - both because we >> have more experience with the technology and because we are more >> adaptable. >> >> Somewhere a hardware manufacturer with the capacity to bring a solid piece >> of hardware to the table will team with Linux and *then* there will be >> some >> good fun! >> > The Joojoo was an admirable attempt, but it came out the same day as the > iPad (IIRC) and suffered from a few usability quirks, so I don't know if > it'll catch on now. > http://thejoojoo.com > http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/05/fusion-garage-joojoo-review/ > > Anybody know of any other recent tablets? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 15:58:54 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 14:58:54 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA20F43.3070000@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA248FE.9080606@staggs.net> On 9/28/2010 12:47 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > There appear to be three issues being discussed here: Whether it is > desirable/acceptable to marry at all; whether married persons may > enjoy sexual relations without procreation; and how to respond to > homosexuality. > > Billy, Karl, and Steve answered the first two quite well, but there is > much dissent within the Church on the third. I see people throwing > around small parts of Scripture out of context to support one opinion > or the other, and the only result is hate and hostility. This makes > me sad. > > I do believe that there are places in the Bible where God clearly > states that homosexual relations are a sin, most notably the ones > referring to a man lying with another man. 1 Corinthians 6:9?11 isn't > so obvious: The Greek word used here is "malakos", which merely means > "soft". The exact same word is used in Matthew 11:8 when Jesus asks > the crowd "What did you go out to see? [referring to John the Baptist] > "A man wearing fine clothes [malakos]?" However, because of Leviticus > 18:22 and 20:13 (shall not lie with another man...) it really doesn't > matter whether you interpret Matthew 11:8 as referring to > homosexuality or not. It was already established that God considers > those acts offensive. > Yes it is true enough that "malakos" does technically mean "soft" , but my understanding (perhaps erroneously) is that it is an idiom implying homosexually or at least overly feminine behavior from a man that is associated with homosexuals (rightly or wrongly). Much the same as someone speaking English might say, "he is a little limp in the wrist, is you know what I mean" or "he is a pansy". We wouldn't really mean that the guy has weak wrist or that he somehow resembles a flower. We could most assuredly be inferring that he is a homosexual. And though I may well be wrong I am at least in good company, as several major Greek scholars (of who I am admittedly not one) seem to believe it warrants being translated alone those lines : 1 Corinthians 6:9 (*NKJV*) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 1 Corinthians 6:9 (*ESV*) Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality/ (3)/, /(3)/ /*ESV footnotes*: The two Greek terms translated by this phrase refer to the passive and active partners in consensual homosexual acts/ 1 Corinthians 6:9 (*NIV*) Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 1 Corinthians 6:9 (*HCSB*) Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit God?s kingdom? Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 1 Corinthians 6:9 (*NLT*) Don?t you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don?t fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality, 1 Corinthians 6:9 (*NET*) Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! The sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, passive homosexual partners/ (5)/, practicing homosexuals, *NET translators note*: 5 tn This term is sometimes rendered ?effeminate,? although in contemporary English usage such a translation could be taken to refer to demeanor rather than behavior. BDAG 613 s.v. ??????? 2 has ?pert. to being passive in a same-sex relationship, effeminate esp. of catamites, of men and boys who are sodomized by other males in such a relationship.? L&N 88.281 states, ?the passive male partner in homosexual intercourse - ?homosexual.? ?As in Greek, a number of other languages also have entirely distinct terms for the active and passive roles in homosexual intercourse.? See also the discussion in G. D. Fee, First Corinthians (NICNT), 243?44. A number of modern translations have adopted the phrase ?male prostitutes? for ??????? in 1 Cor 6:9 (NIV, NRSV, NLT) but this could be misunderstood by the modern reader to mean ?males who sell their services to women,? while the term in question appears, at least in context, to relate to homosexual activity between males. Furthermore, it is far from certain that prostitution as commonly understood (the selling of sexual favors) is specified here, as opposed to a consensual relationship. Thus the translation ?passive homosexual partners? has been used here. New King James Version. Copyright ? 1982 by Thomas Nelson English Standard Version? (ESV?)Copyright ? 2001 by Crossway ****New International Version?, NIV? Copyright ? 1973, 1978, 1984 by Biblica, Inc.? Used by permission of Zondervan Holman Christian Standard Bible ? Copyright ? 2003, 2002, 2000, 1999 by Holman Bible Publishers Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright 1996, 2004. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Inc., Biblical Studies Press. (2006; 2006). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press Just so I can correctly understand your position, are you saying that being "soft" in the literal sense is a sin? Could you elaborate on your interpretation please? I do agree that it is of little consequence in the grander scheme because it is clearly stated elsewhere in Scripture that the act is a sin and a perversion. > BUT -- Those laws prescribe the stoning to death of all who engage in > those acts (along with various forms of incest, bestiality, and > witchcraft). By not obeying the demand for death, we ourselves are > guilty of disobeying a direct order from God. Furthermore, look at > the surrounding chapters. Lev 19 forbids such detestable practices as > planting two different kinds of seed in the same field, seeking > revenge, wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, holding a grudge, cutting > the hair at the sides or top of your head... > > God doesn't grade sin; He's not up there saying "Well, Peter got a > haircut so that's 5 points off, but Bruce is gay so that's 1000 points > off!" Sin is sin is sin is sin. I sin when I drink too much; Bruce > (apologies to anyone on the list actually named Bruce; just picked a > hypothetical name) sins when he has sexual relations with his male > partner. > > So. Should we denounce gays as particularly offensive to God as > though we ourselves are free of sin? Should we criminalize them, > banish them from God's house? Should we boycott businesses we suspect > employ homosexuals? How about hold protests at their funerals holding > up signs proclaiming how much God hates them? > As for the funeral protest, that's just plan wrong, but you do raise some interesting thoughts on how we as Christian should deal with this..... I live in a small rural town and my exposure to this has been very limited. I have only dealt with it on two occasions in my 25 years as a Christian so I certainly have little experience to draw from. I will admit to being somewhat homophobic, and I feel I better work on this as I will no doubt be seeing more of this in the future. > I really don't see why people have so much trouble with Matthew > 22:39. In fact, Jesus was merely quoting a law that comes right from > the heart of Leviticus where we find all those "Thou shalt nots" -- > Leviticus 19:18 follows "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against > your neighbor, but love your neighbor as yourself." > > Even if you believe in your heart that God hates the homosexual act > more than He hates, say, drunkenness or gossip or wearing a gold Rolex > paid for by the offerings sent in by starving widows who believe every > word you say (sorry, that's a separate rant), that's the act itself, > NOT the person. Welcome that miserable rotten sinner into your > church, extend a Christian hand of fellowship, and see if we can > actually live up to the two great commandments. > Honestly I was going to tippey toe around this and not get involved in another debate on this subject as I fear I may have worn out my welcome the last time the group discussed this. But my flesh is weak..... :-) I do agree that homosexuality is a sin just like other sins. And I absolutely agree that we should extend the same Grace and kindness the Lord has show us, but we must do so without compromising what's right. Most, but not all, homosexuals I have discussed this with were dead set on my accepting this behavior. I don't believe that would be any more correct than condoning the practice of adultery. Can God forgive them both, yes, a hundred times yes, but only when they repent of their sins and that's not going to happen as long as they believe it is acceptable. And if you think that's not happening somewhere consider the number of evangelical Churches that now allow clergy to homosexual. -- bstaggs <>< > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue Sep 28 16:41:04 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:41:04 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > > Anyway, please see below scripture: > [...] > 1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is > good for a man not to touch a woman. You have to be VERY careful quoting a single verse like that and assuming it proves something. As you can see, others quoted the following verses in which Paul clarifies that statement. Indeed, he says those who burn with desire should be married. Quoting a single verse is known as "proof texting" and often leads to misunderstandings. Remember verse divisions are not inspired -- so we need to read whole passages in their context, not by pulling a single sentence out of context (imagine if people did that to you!). For example, imagine if I took only your statement, "As we all know, sex is, by nature, the tool to produce offspring." Now, I say, that means if I have sex with ten women and want to produce offspring each time, that is perfectly OK. Of course, that is not what you were intending to say! Keep in mind that Paul tells us that married couples should not abstain from sex for long periods of time (1 Cor. 7.5). Does that mean couples *must* have ten or twenty children? Few people would argue that. Consider further, if married couples must have sex only to reproduce and married couples must not abstain for long periods, what should an infertile couple do? They cannot reproduce and yet they are told by Scripture not to abstain for long periods. See the problem with the line of reasoning you were taking? We must also consider Genesis 2. Adam was given Eve to be fruitful and to multiply, yes, but also because he needed a "suitable helper," which actually is better understood as a "partner" -- someone to fulfill his God designed purpose with. Someone who was -- and say this with gusto -- "Bone of my bone and flesh of my flesh." As others have noted, Song of Songs is about as good of example as you can get of why sexual enjoyment of a spouse is hardly a perversion of nature. Of course, marriage ought to be about a lot more too. All this spoken by a single guy. But, the point for those who are unmarried, I think, is that it is perfectly fine, indeed, natural, to seek marriage. It is something God instituted before the fall and intends for our good. To argue otherwise necessarily requires us to reject that everything in creation was good before the Fall. Arguing from nature is difficult. Remember, nature is fallen and corrupted. Thankfully, we have Scripture which provides us with an uncorrupted picture of what God intends for us. And that is more "natural" than the nature we see. -Tim From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 16:50:57 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:50:57 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 12:47 PM, Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > The Joojoo, if memory serves, also only would work with web > applications. You could not install software on it (well unless you > were at all like most people on this list....). > Yes, exactly. That was one thing that would have drove me nuts, that and the USB port being for charging only (wha...???). I realize that the current Tablet en vogue, the iPad, is rather limited in it's capabilities as well; it's not just a flat iMac with a touchscreen, but the Joojoo comes off as not much more than a $400 web browser. Their attitude towards apps (and, by extension, software) is also, I think, a little on the arrogant side. https://thejoojoo.com/sites/apps I'm wondering if the NotionInk Adam will fare well... It certainly looks slick, and the design principles are sound: http://www.notionink.com/ From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 16:57:11 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:57:11 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> On this note, I recently purchased an iPad and though I am no Apple fan, I am really loving this device. I have completely abandon my Sony eReader (got some kudos by offering this to my wife :-) ) and since I have Bible software (Logos & Pocket Bible) the freedom to nearly instantly fire up the Bible, check email and browse the net has been worth the price. The Bible software is fairly spartan feature wise when you compare it to the PC versions, but it is very usable and I have expectations of vast improvements. An open source version would be a welcome addition. -- bstaggs <>< On 9/28/2010 1:52 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > The next time you hear Apple pretending to have invented the tablet PC > share this: http://tuxmobil.org/tablet_unix.html > > "An overview of Linux installations on Tablet > PCs, NotePads, WebPads, > PenPCs, SmartDisplays, Convertibles and Slates. At the bottom of this > page > there is a survey of Linux applications and drivers useful for > TabletPCs." > > Rather than Apple or Google-Android or MS or Palm the superior solution > will eventually come from the open-source Linux world - both because we > have more experience with the technology and because we are more > adaptable. > > Somewhere a hardware manufacturer with the capacity to bring a solid > piece > of hardware to the table will team with Linux and *then* there will be > some > good fun! > From gorkon at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 16:59:14 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:59:14 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> Message-ID: Look at Youversion. It is awesome. On Sep 28, 2010 4:57 PM, "Billy F. Staggs" wrote: > On this note, I recently purchased an iPad and though I am no Apple > fan, I am really loving this device. I have completely abandon my Sony > eReader (got some kudos by offering this to my wife :-) ) and since I > have Bible software (Logos & Pocket Bible) the freedom to nearly > instantly fire up the Bible, check email and browse the net has been > worth the price. The Bible software is fairly spartan feature wise when > you compare it to the PC versions, but it is very usable and I have > expectations of vast improvements. > > An open source version would be a welcome addition. > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 9/28/2010 1:52 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: >> The next time you hear Apple pretending to have invented the tablet PC >> share this: http://tuxmobil.org/tablet_unix.html >> >> "An overview of Linux installations on Tablet >> PCs, NotePads, WebPads, >> PenPCs, SmartDisplays, Convertibles and Slates. At the bottom of this >> page >> there is a survey of Linux applications and drivers useful for >> TabletPCs." >> >> Rather than Apple or Google-Android or MS or Palm the superior solution >> will eventually come from the open-source Linux world - both because we >> have more experience with the technology and because we are more >> adaptable. >> >> Somewhere a hardware manufacturer with the capacity to bring a solid >> piece >> of hardware to the table will team with Linux and *then* there will be >> some >> good fun! >> > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 16:59:31 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:59:31 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> It looks like vaporware with an obsession with cosmetics. Is there actually a product and a manufacturer? > I'm wondering if the NotionInk Adam will fare well... It certainly > looks slick, and the design principles are sound: > http://www.notionink.com/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 17:06:47 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:06:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA258E7.3050406@bibleseven.com> Interesting and creative interface ... I see versions to download to a SmartPhone but I don't see one that may be downloaded to a laptop or netbook. Am I missing that? I have the HTML version of the NET Bible with translators notes on my netbook and that is really handy - I don't have to be connected to the internet to have access to the Bible and notes. > Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > > Look at Youversion. It is awesome. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 17:11:06 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:11:06 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> There are a couple of open-source OSX-friendly downloads here: http://bible.org/article/net-bible-download I just purchased a Samsung NB30 netbook on sale. It does everything that a laptop does (including a camera) plus is small and light. What does the proprietary and very-limitd iPad offer that the netbook does not? I have not yet understood the hype about tablet devices. > On this note, I recently purchased an iPad and though I am no Apple > fan, I am really loving this device. I have completely abandon my > Sony eReader (got some kudos by offering this to my wife :-) ) and > since I have Bible software (Logos & Pocket Bible) the freedom to > nearly instantly fire up the Bible, check email and browse the net > has been worth the price. The Bible software is fairly spartan > feature wise when you compare it to the PC versions, but it is very > usable and I have expectations of vast improvements. > > An open source version would be a welcome addition. > > -- bstaggs <>< -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 17:21:55 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 16:21:55 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA258E7.3050406@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> <4CA258E7.3050406@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA25C73.8050304@staggs.net> I have a substantial investment into Logos software and thankfully they are porting previously purchased resources to the iPad at not additional cost. (subject to the copyright holders permission and as time allows) While it does currently fall short of many online web version, I am able to download locally a lot of the same resource that I have on my PC and eventuality even my notes will sync between the PC and iPad.... At least as I understand Logos' agenda that is. Really slick to fire up my iPad or PC at home and have it pick up where my office PC was last. I also have the Kindle app on my PCs and iPad, and this is working out very nice also. -- bstaggs <>< On 9/28/2010 4:06 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Interesting and creative interface ... > > I see versions to download to a SmartPhone but I don't see one that > may be downloaded to a laptop or netbook. Am I missing that? > > I have the HTML version of the NET Bible with translators notes on > my netbook and that is really handy - I don't have to be connected to > the internet to have access to the Bible and notes. > > > Joel Mclaughlin wrote: >> >> Look at Youversion. It is awesome. > > From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 18:18:19 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:18:19 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA269AB.1050608@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 02:11 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > There are a couple of open-source OSX-friendly downloads here: > http://bible.org/article/net-bible-download > > I just purchased a Samsung NB30 netbook on sale. It does everything > that a laptop does (including a camera) plus is small and light. What > does the proprietary and very-limitd iPad offer that the netbook does > not? > Fashion. > I have not yet understood the hype about tablet devices. I think the move to touch-input devices is going to be the big shift in the near future. With all the gadgets coming out that sport touchscreens I think it's inevitable that interface design will move in that direction. Imagine, completely customizable controls that don't require designing and implementing a new keyboard, keypad, bank of switches or some other interface, just build it as a GUI and pop it up on the touchscreen! I think tablet devices are simply coal in the steam engine down that track. From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 18:24:11 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:24:11 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA26B0B.9010909@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 01:59 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > It looks like vaporware with an obsession with cosmetics. > > Is there actually a product and a manufacturer? > >> I'm wondering if the NotionInk Adam will fare well... It certainly >> looks slick, and the design principles are sound: >> http://www.notionink.com/ > You're right, it could very well be vaporware. Looks like these guys are currently in production (but not yet available), and the price is good: https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/innovation/ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 18:34:01 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:34:01 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA269AB.1050608@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> <4CA269AB.1050608@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4CA26D59.1020704@bibleseven.com> My Panasonic Toughbook CF-29 notebook has a touchscreen as does the newer (and more costly) version of the Samsung NB30 (the Pro) netbook - I got the plain-vanilla model. Nothing new about touchscreens and I'd rather a NB30 with a touchscreen netbook than a tablet - it seems to me to be most of the best of both worlds (notebook and tablet). Tablet is interesting, the concept has been around for many years (long before Apple) but it looks very vulnerable to damage and more feature- limited - I like versatility! :-) I get the concept of upgrading the interface via software - but again that may be done on a touchscreen netbook - and the netbook would remain more versatile. Not sold on the Tablet, yet ... :-) > > I have not yet understood the hype about tablet devices. > I think the move to touch-input devices is going to be the big shift > in the near future. With all the gadgets coming out that sport > touchscreens I think it's inevitable that interface design will move > in that direction. Imagine, completely customizable controls that > don't require designing and implementing a new keyboard, keypad, bank > of switches or some other interface, just build it as a GUI and pop > it up on the touchscreen! I think tablet devices are simply coal in > the steam engine down that track. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 19:28:47 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 18:28:47 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA27A2F.5000205@staggs.net> As the guys in my office have all slowly drank the Apple Kool-Aid, otherwise known as the iPhone I have stubbornly clung to my old Windows Mobile HTC phone (an ill-conceived device if ever there were one) as a matter of principle. Exactly what I was trying to prove one can only speculate. Yes the interface on the iPhone is very usable and the screen is gorgeous, but it's an Apple after all. :-) Secretly I was hoping my old phone would die and I could convince my wife to buy me an iPhone, then I claim it as a "gift"and avoid a large helping of crow pie. Sadly the HTC just keeps going and going and going..... However, when I tired out an iPad, the larger screen and the thought of having a truly portable Bible with internet access just overwhelmed me as I have been craving such a device for years now. I had made a previously ill-fated attempt with a Dell Latitude XT tablet PC, but after a few short months I just lost interest and it was more convenient to just use my desktop PC and my Allen Longprimer (hard copy KJV). The table PC just seemed to be too much trouble for my needs. It took forever to boot, the battery life was not really long enough to last through an entire Church service, the heat it created could be a problem (ever sit in bed with a laptop on your legs?) What I was looking for was portable Bible "study" software, not just the ablibty to "read" the Bible (eReader) and not a Laptop replacement (which I would argue the XT is not). I wanted to have similar functionality to what I have on my desktop PC, or at least the ability to search, view Bible versions parallel, sync with commentaries, Strongs, etc. I had hopes that eventually the eReaders (Sony, Kindel, Nook) would become powerful enough to make this happen, but Apple appears to be light years ahead of them in this respect. The iPad is simple, intuitive, and when/if they give me a few more features with Logos I will be a happy camper, albeit with Kool-Aid stains around my mouth... :-) -- bstaggs <>< On 9/28/2010 4:11 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > There are a couple of open-source OSX-friendly downloads here: > http://bible.org/article/net-bible-download > > I just purchased a Samsung NB30 netbook on sale. It does everything > that a laptop does (including a camera) plus is small and light. What > does the proprietary and very-limitd iPad offer that the netbook does > not? > > I have not yet understood the hype about tablet devices. > >> On this note, I recently purchased an iPad and though I am no Apple >> fan, I am really loving this device. I have completely abandon my >> Sony eReader (got some kudos by offering this to my wife :-) ) and >> since I have Bible software (Logos & Pocket Bible) the freedom to >> nearly instantly fire up the Bible, check email and browse the net >> has been worth the price. The Bible software is fairly spartan >> feature wise when you compare it to the PC versions, but it is very >> usable and I have expectations of vast improvements. >> >> An open source version would be a welcome addition. >> >> -- bstaggs <>< > > > From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 20:37:03 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:37:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Numbers 11 Message-ID: <4CA28A2F.2060501@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Numbers 11 The Israelites Complain 11:1 When the people complained, it displeased the Lord. When the Lord heard it, his anger burned, and so the fire of the Lord burned among them and consumed some of the outer parts of the camp. 11:2 When the people cried to Moses, he prayed to the Lord, and the fire died out. 11:3 So he called the name of that place Taberah because there the fire of the Lord burned among them. Complaints about Food 11:4 Now the mixed multitude who were among them craved more desirable foods, and so the Israelites wept again and said, "If only we had meat to eat! 11:5 We remember the fish we used to eat freely in Egypt, the cucumbers, the melons, the leeks, the onions, and the garlic. 11:6 But now we are dried up, and there is nothing at all before us except this manna!" 11:7 (Now the manna was like coriander seed, and its color like the color of bdellium. 11:8 And the people went about and gathered it, and ground it with mills or pounded it in mortars; they baked it in pans and made cakes of it. It tasted like fresh olive oil. 11:9 And when the dew came down on the camp in the night, the manna fell with it.) Moses' Complaint to the Lord 11:10 Moses heard the people weeping throughout their families, everyone at the door of his tent; and when the anger of the Lord was kindled greatly, Moses was also displeased. 11:11 And Moses said to the Lord, "Why have you afflicted your servant? Why have I not found favor in your sight, that you lay the burden of this entire people on me? 11:12 Did I conceive this entire people? Did I give birth to them, that you should say to me, 'Carry them in your arms, as a foster father bears a nursing child,' to the land which you swore to their fathers? 11:13 From where shall I get meat to give to this entire people, for they cry to me, 'Give us meat, that we may eat!' 11:14 I am not able to bear this entire people alone, because it is too heavy for me! 11:15 But if you are going to deal with me like this, then kill me immediately. If I have found favor in your sight then do not let me see my trouble." The Response of God 11:16 The Lord said to Moses, "Gather to me seventy men of the elders of Israel, whom you know are elders of the people and officials over them, and bring them to the tent of meeting; let them take their position there with you. 11:17 Then I will come down and speak with you there, and I will take part of the spirit that is on you, and will put it on them, and they will bear some of the burden of the people with you, so that you do not bear it all by yourself. 11:18 "And say to the people, 'Sanctify yourselves for tomorrow, and you will eat meat, for you have wept in the hearing of the Lord, saying, "Who will give us meat to eat, for life was good for us in Egypt?" Therefore the Lord will give you meat, and you will eat. 11:19 You will eat, not just one day, nor two days, nor five days, nor ten days, nor twenty days, 11:20 but a whole month, until it comes out your nostrils and makes you sick, because you have despised the Lord who is among you and have wept before him, saying, "Why did we ever come out of Egypt?"'" 11:21 Moses said, "The people around me are 600,000 on foot; but you say, 'I will give them meat, that they may eat for a whole month.' 11:22 Would they have enough if the flocks and herds were slaughtered for them? If all the fish of the sea were caught for them, would they have enough?" 11:23 And the Lord said to Moses, "Is the Lord's hand shortened? Now you will see whether my word to you will come true or not!" 11:24 So Moses went out and told the people the words of the Lord. He then gathered seventy men of the elders of the people and had them stand around the tabernacle. 11:25 And the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to them, and he took some of the Spirit that was on Moses and put it on the seventy elders. When the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied, but did not do so again. Eldad and Medad 11:26 But two men remained in the camp; one's name was Eldad, and the other's name was Medad. And the spirit rested on them. (Now they were among those in the registration, but had not gone to the tabernacle.) So they prophesied in the camp. 11:27 And a young man ran and told Moses, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp!" 11:28 Joshua son of Nun, the servant of Moses, one of his choice young men, said, "My lord Moses, stop them!" 11:29 Moses said to him, "Are you jealous for me? I wish that all the Lord's people were prophets, that the Lord would put his Spirit on them!" 11:30 Then Moses returned to the camp along with the elders of Israel. Provision of Quail 11:31 Now a wind went out from the Lord and brought quail from the sea, and let them fall near the camp, about a day's journey on this side, and about a day's journey on the other side, all around the camp, and about three feet high on the surface of the ground. 11:32 And the people stayed up all that day, all that night, and all the next day, and gathered the quail. The one who gathered the least gathered ten homers, and they spread them out for themselves all around the camp. 11:33 But while the meat was still between their teeth, before they chewed it, the anger of the Lord burned against the people, and the Lord struck the people with a very great plague. 11:34 So the name of that place was called Kibroth Hattaavah, because there they buried the people that craved different food. 11:35 The people traveled from Kibroth Hattaavah to Hazeroth, and they stayed at Hazeroth. Prayer Lord, You owe us nothing and we owe You everything. May I never have a complaining heart toward You. Commentary The Israelites complained against the Lord God because they were frustrated with the travel and the living conditions He was righteously angry with their ungrateful hearts and caused a fire along the perimeter of their camp. They cried for relief to Moses and he asked God for grace, which he granted. Those among the Israelites who had become accustomed to living somewhat well in Egypt then started to complain about the lack of variety in the food (God was providing them Manna) and that they mostly wanted some meat. This new ungratefulness frustrated Moses and he asked God how he was to respond to their need and he asked God to end his life rather than force him to listen to their complaining. God responded by instructing Moses to summon the 70 elders where He transferred some of the responsibilities Moses was bearing to them. God also told Moses that He would give the people an over-abundance of meat for 30 days until they were sick of it -- as a punishment for their demanding spirits. When the Lord God descended upon the elders they prophesied as they went out among the people, as an evidence that some of God's anointing for Moses had been transferred to them, but only that one time as a witness of authority to the people. Two others, Eldad and Medad, who had not been among them then prophesied. Joshua suggested silencing them as he thought it would undermine Moses but Moses said it was of God and he was OK with it. God then brought a massive quantity of quail to the camp and people rushed to gather and eat it -- but the Lord caused a plague to come upon them for their complaining and many died. Interaction Consider this: Do we have any right to demand anything of God? Discuss this: How overwhelmed must Moses have been that he asked God to take his life? Reflect on this: How different are we than the Israelites? Are we ever really satisfied or no matter what there is always something more that we desire? Share this: When have you been faced with people who were demanding things that you could not provide? Did you have a similar sense of being overwhelmed as did Moses? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you have a heart of demandingness toward Him. Action: Today I will confess those areas in my life where I am not content but am instead demanding of God. Perhaps it is for more money, better looks, a new car, a different home, a mate or a different mate, different food than your budget allows, a better or different job, easier work, easier school work (if a student), more toys, less responsibilities, more recognition, etc. I agree to set those things before the Lord God in prayer, to trust Him to give me what is healthy for me and to keep the rest from me, and to not concern myself again with the absence of what He does not provide. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Numbers 12 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 20:40:49 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:40:49 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA26B0B.9010909@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> <4CA26B0B.9010909@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4CA28B11.404@bibleseven.com> The device sounds neat but I'd not want to pre-order given all of the variables. I'd rather wait for the second production run and see how things go with the first. > Looks like these guys are currently in production (but not yet > available), and the price is good: > https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/innovation/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 21:44:58 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:44:58 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:02 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > In many deacdes of international ministry, ?have been around many who hold > your unbiblical position of sex only for proceration. These people have some > of the highest incidences of adultery I have seen. They are responsible for their deeds, but it does not mean the idea is wrong. It is recorded very clearly that Jesus does not have wife, and He advised so as well for kingdom of heaven's sake (Mat 19:12). DK From lists at runyanrants.net Tue Sep 28 21:45:50 2010 From: lists at runyanrants.net (Legatus) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:45:50 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA269AB.1050608@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA256A7.6070904@staggs.net> <4CA259EA.6080403@bibleseven.com> <4CA269AB.1050608@lavabit.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 17:18, Eddy Martin wrote: > On 09/28/2010 02:11 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > >> There are a couple of open-source OSX-friendly downloads here: >> http://bible.org/article/net-bible-download >> >> I just purchased a Samsung NB30 netbook on sale. It does everything >> that a laptop does (including a camera) plus is small and light. What >> does the proprietary and very-limitd iPad offer that the netbook does >> not? >> >> Fashion. > > I have not yet understood the hype about tablet devices. >> > I think the move to touch-input devices is going to be the big shift in the > near future. > With all the gadgets coming out that sport touchscreens I think it's > inevitable that interface design will move in that direction. > Imagine, completely customizable controls that don't require designing and > implementing a new keyboard, keypad, bank of switches or some other > interface, just build it as a GUI and pop it up on the touchscreen! > I think tablet devices are simply coal in the steam engine down that track. > Touch screen controls have been common for at least 15 years in the electrical controls industry. I worked in a shop, where that was all they installed. They became popular, because they can be a sealed unit, and won't allow any of the food stuffs or manufacturing debris of a factory to get in the controls. One of their customers preferred it so much, that they had them create a reporting console to generate reports for the foreman, instead of them going to the data collection computer with a keyboard and mouse. > -- > JD Runyan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 21:58:16 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:58:16 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: For Karl and Billy below: On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > But Peter was married, and so were other apostles and church fathers. > > In other words, some marry, some do not. ?Nothing more. ?And both > celibacy and marriage are given due respect in scripture, in appropriate > contexts for each. On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > What about Peter? This is one of the question I asked my pastor. According my Pastor, Peter "leave his wife" (not divorce, similar to Siddharta) to follow Jesus. > Paul certainly was not against married men from holding offices within the > Church. The celibacy is only for the inner circle, not for the mass that Jesus called as "pigs and dogs", which still could not control their sex desire. > Matthew 19:8?9 (KJV) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of > your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it > was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it > be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso > marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. > > Again the Lord reaffirms the magnitude of marriage and the consequences for > trying to pervert what God intended. So with the weight of His answer heavy > on the minds they conclude that perhaps marriage is not worth the risk. Good try. Let me put it in perspective, using your word above. Paul because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put get married: but from the beginning, it was not so (There is no eve, so, no sex, only celibacy). > Matthew 19:10?12 (KJV) His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be > so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men > cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are > some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother?s womb: and there are > some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which > have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven?s sake. He that is > able to receive it, let him receive it. > > The disciples point blank ask Him "if ... it is not good to marry" and He > dose not confirm their inquiry and considering His previous statements it > would be unnecessary as He has already given His Blessing to the union > between man and woman. He does however introduce a new state of being into > the conversation. Some eunuchs are created by man, meaning they did not > choice to be celibate but rather were emasculated and the choice was made > for them. But still others were ordain by God to be total dedicated to His > Calling and Work and therefore it would be more expedient for them to not be > burdened by the responsibility of a spouse and family. Paul also states > this: > > 1 Corinthians 7:1?9 (KJV) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto > me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid > fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her > own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and > likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own > body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his > own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with > consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and > come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I > speak this by permission, and not of commandment. For I would that all men > were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after > this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and > widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot > contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. > > To be celibate would obviously be an advantage in some Callings, but not at > the expense of lusting and it certiainly not required for all clurgy. That > is what I believe is being taught here. True, but I can see you also agree that celibate is "higher calling" than marriage if that person is able to control his lust. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 22:09:28 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:09:28 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 3:41 AM, Timothy Butler wrote: > You have to be VERY careful quoting a single verse like that and assuming it proves something. As you can see, others quoted the > following verses in which Paul clarifies that statement. Indeed, he says those who burn with desire should be married. That means, marriage is only for people that lack of control (burn with desire), right? > Keep in mind that Paul tells us that married couples should not abstain from sex for long periods of time (1 Cor. 7.5). Does that > mean couples *must* have ten or twenty children? Few people would argue that. Consider further, if married couples must have sex > only to reproduce and married couples must not abstain for long periods, what should an infertile couple do? They cannot reproduce > and yet they are told by Scripture not to abstain for long periods. That is because only people lack of control, should married. That is already declaring loose the war. But from the beginning, it was not so (should not give up to lust, but control it). From the beginning, there is no Eve, only Adam. Eve was created later on. We also could see, God does not multiply, right? DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 22:13:27 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:13:27 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 1:53 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > By the above logic, post-menopausal marriages are doomed to a sexless > existence for the remaining 2 or 3 or N decades of life. ?After all, > with the wife having passed through menopause, the couple have no > rational expectation (much less "intention," as stated above) of the > woman ever again becoming pregnant; therefore, any sex is, by the above > definition, perversion. > > OK, show of hands: All married people who intend to go without sex for > the rest of your lives after the wife passes age 45 (or thereabouts). Long time ago, people in India having three stages of life: 1. Childhood 2. Marriage life 3. Celibacy life So, it is natural to have a sexless life for post-menopausal, the "strong desire" should not be there anymore anyway. It is time to fullfill your "higher calling". DK From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 22:19:42 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 19:19:42 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA28B11.404@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> <4CA26B0B.9010909@lavabit.com> <4CA28B11.404@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA2A23E.1040005@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 05:40 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > The device sounds neat but I'd not want to pre-order given all of the > variables. > > I'd rather wait for the second production run and see how things > go with the first. > >> Looks like these guys are currently in production (but not yet >> available), and the price is good: >> https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/innovation/ > Looking through the forums, it looks like they've already gone through a first run... http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 22:22:32 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:22:32 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA20F43.3070000@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > > I really don't see why people have so much trouble with Matthew 22:39.? In > fact, Jesus was merely quoting a law that comes right from the heart of > Leviticus where we find all those "Thou shalt nots" -- Leviticus 19:18 > follows "Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against your neighbor, but > love your neighbor as yourself." > > Even if you believe in your heart that God hates the homosexual act more > than He hates, say, drunkenness or gossip or wearing a gold Rolex paid for > by the offerings sent in by starving widows who believe every word you say > (sorry, that's a separate rant), that's the act itself, NOT the person. > Welcome that miserable rotten sinner into your church, extend a Christian > hand of fellowship, and see if we can actually live up to the two great > commandments. This is very-very good attitude. There would be no wars if all people's attitude are like yours. You are great! You disagree with me for the first two points, but it does not really matter as those 2 points are intended only for the inner circle: People that really want to give up everything for kingdom of heaven's sake! ( Surely I am not ready yet for that call as well). DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 22:30:22 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:30:22 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA2A23E.1040005@lavabit.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> <4CA26B0B.9010909@lavabit.com> <4CA28B11.404@bibleseven.com> <4CA2A23E.1040005@lavabit.com> Message-ID: <4CA2A4BE.2060002@bibleseven.com> It sounds as though they have seen prototypes but I didn't read where anyone actually owned one nor that they were in distribution. Someone suggested that their marketing plan was to try to go to OEMs first then to users. And there were discussion of incomplete implementation of features. Sounds like a "maybe next year" thing ... :-) > Looking through the forums, it looks like they've already gone > through a first run... http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 28 22:42:32 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:42:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:13:27 +0700") References: Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: > Long time ago, people in India having three stages of life: > 1. Childhood > 2. Marriage life > 3. Celibacy life > So, it is natural to have a sexless life for post-menopausal, the > "strong desire" should not be there anymore anyway. It is time to > fullfill your "higher calling". [a] Among other problems, you disregard the possibility of wide difference in age, i.e. possibly younger man with older woman, especially possible in levirate marriage, Deut 25:5,6, so that you impose (I choose this verb deliberately) this odd perspective of "higher"/later calling on younger men. [b] I do not take even my cultural, much less my spiritual, cues from Hindus or Buddhists. That you suggest we do so is...oddly informative. I know no related scriptural citation in which we are told that the later stages of life are intended to be celibate, and Paul's instruction against deprivation (1Cor 7:2-5) provides no context, no "out," upon which to stake a claim for sexlessness at _any_ point in marriage. This abject nonsense that "higher calling" is equated to sexlessness is rancid scriptural insanity. You are struggling for a way to justify your pre-existing opinion by means that are decidedly not scriptural. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 22:56:03 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:56:03 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > This abject nonsense that "higher calling" is equated to sexlessness is > rancid scriptural insanity. ?You are struggling for a way to justify > your pre-existing opinion by means that are decidedly not scriptural. You want more scripture ? Here you are: Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? Forsaken all, should include his wife. See Gill commentary: "... yet all that they had they left for Christ's sake, their parents, WIVES, children, houses, and worldly employments, by which they supported themselves and families; and became the disciples and followers of Christ, " DK From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 28 22:56:52 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:56:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:58:16 +0700") References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: >> What about Peter? > This is one of the question I asked my pastor. According my Pastor, > Peter "leave his wife" (not divorce, similar to Siddharta) to follow > Jesus. I don't give a @#$% what your pastor says; I don't have a Gospel According To Your Pastor in my Bible. So what does the Bible say? It says Peter had a wife, period. End of discussion. Anything else is blind and baseless supposition, a reading of meaning that you happen to want and like into a text which supports nothing of the sort. Read what the Bible says, not what you want it to say, and not merely what your pastor tells you. Even though Peter went to follow Jesus, we have no information, yea or nay, as to whether his wife accompanied him even during Jesus' earthly ministry, much less after the resurrection and Peter's subsequent career of preaching. Bear in mind as well that Paul made explicit reference to the apostles' right to take wives (1Cor 9:5), previously mentioned by someone else but worthy of being cited now as well for contextual emphasis. > The celibacy is only for the inner circle, not for the mass that Jesus > called as "pigs and dogs", which still could not control their sex > desire. I absolutely demand a citation for this "pigs and dogs" claim. From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Tue Sep 28 23:00:29 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 21:00:29 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <4CA248FE.9080606@staggs.net> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA20F43.3070000@staggs.net> <4CA248FE.9080606@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 1:58 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Yes it is true enough that "malakos" does technically mean "soft" , but my > understanding (perhaps erroneously) is that it is an idiom implying > homosexually or at least overly feminine behavior from a man that is > associated with homosexuals (rightly or wrongly). Much the same as someone > speaking English might say, "he is a little limp in the wrist, is you know > what I mean" or "he is a pansy". We wouldn't really mean that the guy has > weak wrist or that he somehow resembles a flower. We could most assuredly > be inferring that he is a homosexual. And though I may well be wrong I am > at least in good company, as several major Greek scholars (of who I am > admittedly not one) seem to believe it warrants being translated alone those > lines : > > Oh, absolutely it is possible that the various translations ("effeminate" or "homosexual") are correct; I'm just saying it's not as clear-cut as the more explicit verses. Just so I can correctly understand your position, are you saying that being > "soft" in the literal sense is a sin? Could you elaborate on your > interpretation please? > It's not really a position per se, so much as a shadow of a doubt. If I were to really cling to this interpretation, I'd lump it in with Jesus' numerous other complaints leveled against the upper class. Using the "malakos" of "a man in fine clothing" as a guide, you could read this as another example of how difficult it is for the rich -- i.e., soft in the sense of pampered -- to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. But honestly, I don't dwell on it. I figure if I can manage the two greatest commandments even most of the time, the rest will take care of themselves. As for the funeral protest, that's just plan wrong, but you do raise some > interesting thoughts on how we as Christian should deal with this..... I > live in a small rural town and my exposure to this has been very limited. I > have only dealt with it on two occasions in my 25 years as a Christian so I > certainly have little experience to draw from. I will admit to being > somewhat homophobic, and I feel I better work on this as I will no doubt be > seeing more of this in the future. > > For what it's worth, I'm right there with you. I didn't bring up the above contrarian ideas to justify my own, or a friend's, behavior; I too carry the aversion to homosexuality built in by society and upbringing. What got me started on my private campaign to get people to think about it differently was seeing how the very subject evokes expressions of hate that I never thought possible in my Christian brothers and sisters. Is it possible for an unrepentant homosexual to love the Lord and be a saved Christian? I sure hope so, otherwise churches full of unrepentant drunks, gossips, people who cut corners on their income taxes, people who are envious or resentful etc. etc. etc. are going to be mighty disappointed when they are all "left behind" come the Rapture. There were (probably still are) attitudes and behaviors in my life that took me DECADES to even acknowledge were sinful, and on any number of occasions I could very well have died before admitting they were sins. So how can we uphold our values and refuse to condone such behavior, while at the same time not condemning those who practice it? That's a tougher line to draw. Refuse to participate in activities which promote the behavior, do not permit blatant offenders to hold positions of authority or teach -- as long as the same standards apply to all prohibited behavior, right? I wouldn't want a person who goes out every night getting blind drunk and joking about it teaching my kids in Sunday School either -- or a guy who dumped his wife for a younger model, or a prostitute, etc. But it's a far cry from "Bob, I love you but I can't go to the pride rally with you and here's why" to "Bob, you're a satan-worshipping pervert and you are going to burn in hell for your disgusting lifestyle". Anyway, I don't claim to have all the answers... I'm making this up as I go along :-) Shalom, *PBS* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:20:36 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:20:36 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > David Kuntadi writes: >>> What about Peter? > >> This is one of the question I asked my pastor. According my Pastor, >> Peter "leave his wife" (not divorce, similar to Siddharta) to follow >> Jesus. > > I don't give a @#$% what your pastor says; I don't have a Gospel > According To Your Pastor in my Bible. ?So what does the Bible say? > > It says Peter had a wife, period. Wrong! The bible says Peter "forsaken all" to follow Jesus. All should include wife, right? Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? > Even though Peter went to follow Jesus, we have no information, yea or > nay, as to whether his wife accompanied him even during Jesus' earthly > ministry, much less after the resurrection and Peter's subsequent career > of preaching. ?Bear in mind as well that Paul made explicit reference to > the apostles' right to take wives (1Cor 9:5), previously mentioned by > someone else but worthy of being cited now as well for contextual > emphasis. This 1 Cor 9:5 is not taking about marriage, but more on helper or provider to lighten their works. > I absolutely demand a citation for this "pigs and dogs" claim. You never heard/read this verse? Here it is: Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 23:19:41 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:19:41 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4CA2B04D.7060203@bibleseven.com> I don't know where Gills is coming up with "wives", it is *not* in the Biblical text. It seems to be his personal addition. Imposing such an extraordinary meaning upon the text is dangerous. Also, it is known that wives and others traveled with the disciples and apostles during and after the time of Jesus, so it is not at all reasonable to presume the abandonment by Peter of his wife for the sake of ministry. It seems, indeed, that to make such a declaration creates a serious conflict within the teaching of the Bible as to the unity of a man and a woman in marriage. God has declared the sanctity of the marriage unity - this proposition requires that God contradict Himself. I think not. "Matthew 19:27 Then Peter said to him, ?Look, we have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?? 19:28 Jesus said to them, ?I tell you the truth: In the age when all things are renewed, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 19:29 And whoever has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and the last first." NET Bible -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 28 23:22:07 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:22:07 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:56:03 +0700") References: Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: > Forsaken all, should include his wife. See Gill commentary: > "... yet all that they had they left for Christ's sake, their parents, > WIVES, children, houses, and worldly employments, by which they > supported themselves and families; and became the disciples and > followers of Christ, " Objectively incorrect (this would not be the first time that Gill's commentary was incorrect; it is after all not scripture, but a mere commentary by one man containing his personal understanding, as prone to mistake, error, and bias as any other man's), considering that Peter and the others resumed livelihoods as fishermen (John 21), that is, their "worldly employments" had at worst merely been put on hold, not abandoned as a matter of finality. We have no information from scripture itself as to whether Peter's wife accompanied the disciples during their travels. To claim otherwise is to argue from silence. Note especially well that, in v.29's list of relationships that may have been lost, many family relationships are listed, but significantly "wife" is not in the set. Peter's observation about abandoning everything should be taken as the hyperbole it obviously was. Did he give up *everything*? How about the clothes on his back, the sandals on his feet? No, didn't think so. And we also have occasional reference in the gospels to the handling of money, an obvious indication that there was some means by which a living was made among the disciples. I guess they didn't give up their "worldly employments," as Gill put it, even during Jesus' life -- more evidence that Gill is wrong. Yes, they gave up a great deal. No, they did not give up everything. In context, v.27's quotation from Peter is from his expression of frustration, so all the more likely to be hyperbole in that emotional state. That context is the story of the rich young ruler who would not give up his riches, and the astonishment of the disciples over who could be saved. You are avoiding the question of your supposition that a sexless life represents a "higher" calling. From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Sep 28 23:24:02 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:24:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA2B152.5040808@bibleseven.com> > Wrong! The bible says Peter "forsaken all" to follow Jesus. All > should include wife, right? > > Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have > forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? Wrong - read the rest of the text - as you have been previously advised. The "all" is qualified, and despite Gill's sloppy scholarship, the qualification specifically excludes "wife". > Mat 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye > your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, > and turn again and rend you. The *text* does not require this to have anything to do with humans, why are you forcing such a foreign meaning upon the text? -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Sep 28 23:27:43 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:27:43 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA2B22F.3050705@staggs.net> On 9/28/2010 8:58 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > For Karl and Billy below: > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: >> But Peter was married, and so were other apostles and church fathers. >> >> In other words, some marry, some do not. Nothing more. And both >> celibacy and marriage are given due respect in scripture, in appropriate >> contexts for each. > > On Tue, Sep 28, 2010 at 10:52 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> What about Peter? > This is one of the question I asked my pastor. According my Pastor, > Peter "leave his wife" (not divorce, similar to Siddharta) to follow > Jesus. > Does he have anything to support this claim? >> Paul certainly was not against married men from holding offices within the >> Church. > The celibacy is only for the inner circle, not for the mass that Jesus > called as "pigs and dogs", which still could not control their sex > desire. > I don't recall any such statement from Scripture, please quote something to support this. The only inner circle that comes to my mind is Peter, James and John and we know that Peter was married.... If the "pigs and dogs" comes from Matthew 7:6, YIKES! You are WAY out of context with that, in my opinion. >> Matthew 19:8?9 (KJV) He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of >> your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it >> was not so. And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it >> be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso >> marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. >> >> Again the Lord reaffirms the magnitude of marriage and the consequences for >> trying to pervert what God intended. So with the weight of His answer heavy >> on the minds they conclude that perhaps marriage is not worth the risk. > Good try. Let me put it in perspective, using your word above. > Paul because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put get > married: but from the beginning, it was not so (There is no eve, so, > no sex, only celibacy). > Not from my words, Paul instructed them to marry "to avoid fornication". 1 Corinthians 7:1?9 (KJV) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.* **Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband*. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.* *For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. >> Matthew 19:10?12 (KJV) His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be >> so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men >> cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are >> some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother?s womb: and there are >> some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which >> have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven?s sake. He that is >> able to receive it, let him receive it. >> >> The disciples point blank ask Him "if ... it is not good to marry" and He >> dose not confirm their inquiry and considering His previous statements it >> would be unnecessary as He has already given His Blessing to the union >> between man and woman. He does however introduce a new state of being into >> the conversation. Some eunuchs are created by man, meaning they did not >> choice to be celibate but rather were emasculated and the choice was made >> for them. But still others were ordain by God to be total dedicated to His >> Calling and Work and therefore it would be more expedient for them to not be >> burdened by the responsibility of a spouse and family. Paul also states >> this: >> >> 1 Corinthians 7:1?9 (KJV) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto >> me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid >> fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her >> own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and >> likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own >> body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his >> own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with >> consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and >> come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I >> speak this by permission, and not of commandment. For I would that all men >> were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after >> this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and >> widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot >> contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. >> >> To be celibate would obviously be an advantage in some Callings, but not at >> the expense of lusting and it certiainly not required for all clurgy. That >> is what I believe is being taught here. > True, but I can see you also agree that celibate is "higher calling" > than marriage if that person is able to control his lust. > I agree that it is calling for "some" people, but to call it "higher" is not for me to say. 1 Corinthians 12:12 (KJV) For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. Matthew 20:20?23 (KJV) Then came to him the mother of Zebedee?s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. This sort of reminds me of : Matthew 20:20?23 (KJV) Then came to him the mother of Zebedee?s children with her sons, worshipping him, and desiring a certain thing of him. And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karl at kleinpaste.org Tue Sep 28 23:31:00 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:31:00 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:20:36 +0700") References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: >> It says Peter had a wife, period. > Wrong! The bible says Peter "forsaken all" to follow Jesus. All should > include wife, right? See my other note on exactly this problem. Peter was frustrated, as were all the disciples, at Jesus' teaching about the rich young ruler. He was speaking in hyperbole, as is demonstrated by other objective evidence about not having abandoned such matters as their "worldly employments." >> Bear in mind as well that Paul made explicit reference to the >> apostles' right to take wives (1Cor 9:5), previously mentioned by >> someone else but worthy of being cited now as well for contextual >> emphasis. > This 1 Cor 9:5 is not taking about marriage, but more on helper or > provider to lighten their works. You can ignore the words on the page if you like. It says: "Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas?" Have we forgotten that Cephas is Peter? You know, Peter...who had a wife? How terribly inconvenient for you. I guess Peter didn't abandon his wife after all, huh? It seems she actually and literally came along for the ride, considering that Paul refers to a wife being "along with us." > You never heard/read this verse? Here it is: I am very aware of Matt 7:6. I have more than 6 dozen English language Bibles at my disposal, and they all read quite similarly. But you have a distinct distaste for context; that much is obvious, over and over again. The context of Matt 7:6 has not a whit to do with matters of marriage and sex; it is a wide view of that which is sacred, and makes no reference to either marriage or sex at all. From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:34:08 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:34:08 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: > David Kuntadi writes: >>> What about Peter? > >> This is one of the question I asked my pastor. According my Pastor, >> Peter "leave his wife" (not divorce, similar to Siddharta) to follow >> Jesus. Wow, David! You need to do three things: 1. Study your Bible! 2. Run EVERYTHING you hear even in church through the filter of the Bible. 3. Take off RUNNING from that pastor! He is full of cow extract! My BIBLICAL proof that Peter did NOT leave his wife is written almost 30 years after Calvary by the Apostle Paul, who I assume knew the facts: "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Corinthians 9:5) Notice that "lead about" is in the present tense. Cephas is, of course, one of Simon peter's three names. Dr. Steve, central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5487 (20100928) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:34:37 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:34:37 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <4CA2B04D.7060203@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA2B04D.7060203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:19 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > "Matthew 19:27 Then Peter said to him, ?Look, we have left everything to > follow > you! What then will there be for us?? 19:28 Jesus said to them, ?I tell you > the truth: > In the age when all things are renewed, when the Son of Man sits on his > glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, > judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 19:29 And whoever has left houses or > brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or fields for my sake > will > receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 19:30 But > many > who are first will be last, and the last first." NET Bible Offcourse wife is not mention at all, because it is earthly things: Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue Sep 28 23:36:08 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:36:08 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <28D65ABA-AC1E-4953-A7FC-2A9971CE9478@ofb.biz> > > That means, marriage is only for people that lack of control (burn > with desire), right? Not precisely. I think some of us are better equipped for single hood than others. Big point: to marry is not a sin, though the specially equipped folks who do not need to marry will be freer to serve the Lord. Read the whole argument of Paul in 1 Corinthians 7. > That is because only people lack of control, should married. That is > already declaring loose the war. But from the beginning, it was not so > (should not give up to lust, but control it). From the beginning, > there is no Eve, only Adam. Eve was created later on. There was no lust in the garden, because lust would be a sin and sin doesn't enter into the picture until Genesis 3. To be clear, everything is at the pinnacle of goodness after the creation of both male and female (and, therefore, the first marriage). It is clear that it was "not good" that Adam was alone. > We also could > see, God does not multiply, right? No, but he is relational and he relates to his creation much like we relate to our spouses (well, if we are married, which I am not... yet, at least). -Tim From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue Sep 28 23:37:45 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:37:45 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:20 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> It says Peter had a wife, period. > > Wrong! The bible says Peter "forsaken all" to follow Jesus. All should > include wife, right? > > Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have > forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? That would be rather illogical, since Jesus did not allow for divorce in the case of "serving the Lord." -Tim From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue Sep 28 23:40:00 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:40:00 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA2B04D.7060203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:34 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Offcourse wife is not mention at all, because it is earthly things: > > Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given > in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. We are not in the resurrected life yet. Nor do we know precisely what this means -- trying to actually apply it to current life assumes we know far more than we do. -Tim From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 23:40:29 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:40:29 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux on Tablet PC's In-Reply-To: <4CA2A4BE.2060002@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA23961.7010008@bibleseven.com> <4CA240BE.2090508@lavabit.com> <4CA25531.9030309@lavabit.com> <4CA25733.7090701@bibleseven.com> <4CA26B0B.9010909@lavabit.com> <4CA28B11.404@bibleseven.com> <4CA2A23E.1040005@lavabit.com> <4CA2A4BE.2060002@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA2B52D.4020905@lavabit.com> On 09/28/2010 07:30 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > It sounds as though they have seen prototypes but I didn't read where > anyone actually owned one nor that they were in distribution. > > Someone suggested that their marketing plan was to try to go to > OEMs first then to users. > > And there were discussion of incomplete implementation of > features. > > Sounds like a "maybe next year" thing ... :-) > >> Looking through the forums, it looks like they've already gone >> through a first run... http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/forums/ > Actually, in the "Core" section were folks discussing new images, boot performance, etc. Did I miss something and they were they actually running the OS on different hardware? Didn't catch that explicitly... Hmmmm... From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Sep 28 23:51:49 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:51:49 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Microsoft tea party against open source | ZDNet In-Reply-To: <4C9525E7.5060609@lightlink.com> References: <4C9525E7.5060609@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4CA2B7D5.3000001@lavabit.com> On 09/18/2010 01:49 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > If you have made your career drinking the corporate Kool-Aid > (and Redmond can be > pretty isolated from the rest of the computing universe) what's going > on in the market these days can seem absolutely maddening. > > Hence the crazy. > > http://www.zdnet.com/blog/open-source/microsoft-tea-party-against-open-source/7387?tag=nl.e539 > > -- > "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." > Thomas Jefferson Calling tea partiers "the crazy" and equating it with Microsoft is stepping way over a very broad line. I'm pleased that he stated this was his "last political post"; making such irrelevent and inflammatory arguments as he did, I think he should be staying out of politics. True, the development model for Open Source is in some ways "communist" as it relies on "the community" to get things done, but that's about as far as that goes, IMHO. The fact that companies like Red Hat and Novell can make quite a bit of money off a FREE operating system is an under-sung (dare I say...) "capitalist" accomplishment. -Eddy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:51:58 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:51:58 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:22 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > > Peter's observation about abandoning everything should be taken as the > hyperbole it obviously was. ?Did he give up *everything*? ?How about the > clothes on his back, the sandals on his feet? ?No, didn't think so. ?And > we also have occasional reference in the gospels to the handling of > money, an obvious indication that there was some means by which a living > was made among the disciples. ?I guess they didn't give up their > "worldly employments," as Gill put it, even during Jesus' life -- more > evidence that Gill is wrong. It is more on your intepretation and guess only, right? The money is handled by Judas, it shows that they have no jobs. Joh 13:29 For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor. > Yes, they gave up a great deal. ?No, they did not give up everything. > In context, v.27's quotation from Peter is from his expression of > frustration, so all the more likely to be hyperbole in that emotional > state. ?That context is the story of the rich young ruler who would not > give up his riches, and the astonishment of the disciples over who could > be saved. If Peter was emotional and hyperbolic, Jesus surely rebuked him. > You are avoiding the question of your supposition that a sexless life > represents a "higher" calling. I have explained it but you refuse to agree. DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Tue Sep 28 23:55:46 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 22:55:46 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:51 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> >> You are avoiding the question of your supposition that a sexless life >> represents a "higher" calling. > > I have explained it but you refuse to agree. The big problem is that it is clear there is no "higher calling." There are simply different people called to different things. Take a look at 1 Corinthians 12 for a discussion of the varying parts of the body. -Tim From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:56:52 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:56:52 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA2B04D.7060203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Timothy Butler wrote: > Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given > in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. > ? ? ? ?We are not in the resurrected life yet. Nor do we know precisely what this means -- trying to actually apply it to current life > assumes we know far more than we do. Are you criticizing Jesus? DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Sep 28 23:58:52 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:58:52 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Timothy Butler wrote: > > On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:20 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > >>> It says Peter had a wife, period. >> >> Wrong! The bible says Peter "forsaken all" to follow Jesus. All should >> include wife, right? >> >> Mat 19:27 ?Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have >> forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? > > ? ? ? ?That would be rather illogical, since Jesus did not allow for divorce in the case of "serving the Lord." > > ? ? ? ?-Tim Please read properly, I never said Peter divorce his wife. Buddha also never divorced his wife, just leave her, and come back to her later to make her his disciple. DK From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Sep 29 00:13:19 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:13:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> On Tue, 2010-09-28 at 14:53 -0400, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > I wanted to come back to one point from the original proponent's 1st > note, in this paragraph: > > David Kuntadi writes: > > So, even a legitimate sex done by couples already legally married in > > the church, if done without the intention to produce offspring, is a > > perversion of nature (the same behavior as gay/lesbian's), am I right? > > It is necessary, I think, to observe a natural outcome of this attitude: > > By the above logic, post-menopausal marriages are doomed to a sexless > existence for the remaining 2 or 3 or N decades of life. After all, > with the wife having passed through menopause, the couple have no > rational expectation (much less "intention," as stated above) of the > woman ever again becoming pregnant; therefore, any sex is, by the above > definition, perversion. Not too mention those couples who just cannot have children for varying reasons. > OK, show of hands: All married people who intend to go without sex for > the rest of your lives after the wife passes age 45 (or thereabouts). > > [ ...crickets chirp into the still night air... ] > > No, David, you're not right. Not even a little bit, as even the most > cursory reading of Song of Solomon would show you. From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 00:19:31 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:19:31 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA2B04D.7060203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:56 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:40 AM, Timothy Butler wrote: >> Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given >> in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. >> We are not in the resurrected life yet. Nor do we know precisely what this means -- trying to actually apply it to current life >> assumes we know far more than we do. > > Are you criticizing Jesus? No, of course not. I am trying to show him respect by not reading things into what he is saying. -Tim From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 00:22:27 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 23:22:27 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <250293A1-9150-475C-891C-8F695D681AAC@ofb.biz> On Sep 28, 2010, at 10:58 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> >> That would be rather illogical, since Jesus did not allow for divorce in the case of "serving the Lord." >> >> -Tim > > Please read properly, I never said Peter divorce his wife. Buddha also > never divorced his wife, just leave her, and come back to her later to > make her his disciple. That would be even worse: spousal abandonment without going ahead and admitting what you are doing. That is hardly loving one's wife as Christ loved the church (e.g. Ephesians 5)! Nor, would it be fulfilling Paul's instruction from 1 Cor. 7 to have frequent sexual relations. It is a very bad idea to try to garner an understanding of the Christian life from the Buddha. While there are certainly bits of Buddhism that echo Christian doctrine, much of it -- including its rejection of the goodness of the material world -- is entirely contrary to Scripture. -Tim From karl at kleinpaste.org Wed Sep 29 00:38:04 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:38:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:51:58 +0700") References: Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: > It is more on your intepretation and guess only, right? The money is > handled by Judas, it shows that they have no jobs. I don't care who _handled_ the money. The fact is that money was available for their use. _Somebody_ among them was making a living so that somebody else(s) could be handling it. That Judas was one of those handling it is utterly immaterial. The point which you are attempting (failing) to avoid is that Gill's supposition that they gave up "everything" is objectively false, considering that Gill specifically listed "worldly employments," and that Gill's further belief that Peter abandoned his wife is disproved by 1Cor 9:5. > I have explained it but you refuse to agree. No, you have not addressed it at all. You have attempted to draw inferences from Hindu culture as proof, an inadequate (as being not scriptural) source of information and argument to support a claim of a Christian thesis. Unsurprisingly, the thesis is wrong, independently of the attempt to use an improper source of support for it, because scripture does not tell us anywhere that aged-ness implies sexlessness; and indeed on the contrary, instruction in 1Cor 7 tells us otherwise, without limitation as to age. What do you do with a married couple of any age, where the wife has, say, suffered cervical cancer and consequently undergone hysterectomy? Do you condemn this couple to sexlessness even at a young age? You are, after all, the proponent of "sex without intent for conception is perversion." I, uh, congratulate you on your tenacity on a failed argumentative position. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 00:40:40 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:40:40 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Mike McMullin wrote: > > ?Not too mention those couples who just cannot have children for > varying reasons. Then they have very intention to have children, it is very good. And one of the day, God might give them child/children. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 00:54:17 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 11:54:17 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <4CA2B22F.3050705@staggs.net> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA2B22F.3050705@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > Does he have anything to support this claim? I have mentioned before: Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? > I don't recall any such statement from Scripture, please quote something to support this.? The only inner circle that comes to my > mind is Peter, James and John and we know that Peter was married....? If the "pigs and dogs" comes from Matthew 7:6, YIKES! > You are WAY out of context with that, in my opinion. So, what is the correct context for pigs and dogs from Mathew 7:6? > Not from my words, Paul instructed them to marry "to avoid fornication". Surely Paul did not need a wife to avoid fornication, or did he? > 1 Corinthians 7:1?9 (KJV) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. > > I agree that it is calling for "some" people, but to call it "higher" is not for me to say. Sure there are higher calling, as Paul also mentioned what he wrote is merely "milk", not "meat" 1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 01:02:47 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:02:47 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:31 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > See my other note on exactly this problem. ?Peter was frustrated, as > were all the disciples, at Jesus' teaching about the rich young ruler. > He was speaking in hyperbole, as is demonstrated by other objective > evidence about not having abandoned such matters as their "worldly > employments." No evidence on that. Peter speak correctly about forsaken all, otherwise Jesus will surely rebuke him if he is telling lie. > You can ignore the words on the page if you like. ?It says: > > "Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do > the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas?" First question: Why Paul did not do that? > Have we forgotten that Cephas is Peter? ?You know, Peter...who had a wife? > How terribly inconvenient for you. I guess Peter didn't abandon his > wife after all, huh? It seems she actually and literally came along for > the ride, considering that Paul refers to a wife being "along with us." Is wife only for sex? Siddhartha still come back to his wife, but not come back to the sex as he abandon all desire. Do you think Peter could not reunite with his wife without sex? Or do you have proof Peter having sex with his wife after he follow Jesus? > >> You never heard/read this verse? Here it is: > > I am very aware of Matt 7:6. ?I have more than 6 dozen English language > Bibles at my disposal, and they all read quite similarly. > > But you have a distinct distaste for context; that much is obvious, over > and over again. ?The context of Matt 7:6 has not a whit to do with > matters of marriage and sex; it is a wide view of that which is sacred, > and makes no reference to either marriage or sex at all. It is everything to do with flesh desire, including sex. Or do you think God also have desire to have sex? That would be a blaspheme. DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 01:23:25 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:23:25 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <335CFF1F-408E-4526-964E-27BB77D92065@ofb.biz> On Sep 29, 2010, at 12:02 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> >> Have we forgotten that Cephas is Peter? You know, Peter...who had a wife? >> How terribly inconvenient for you. I guess Peter didn't abandon his >> wife after all, huh? It seems she actually and literally came along for >> the ride, considering that Paul refers to a wife being "along with us." > > Is wife only for sex? Siddhartha still come back to his wife, but not > come back to the sex as he abandon all desire. Escape from desire is not a Christian goal. Christians are aiming to desire what God desires for us, not to desire nothing at all. This is a very key difference between Buddhism and Christianity. Hence, we have no interest in what Siddhartha did, at least with respect to what Christians ought to do. > Do you think Peter > could not reunite with his wife without sex? Or do you have proof > Peter having sex with his wife after he follow Jesus? Unless Paul's instruction in 1 Cor. 7 was wrong (and surely we all agree it is not), then, yes, Peter should have been (and probably was) having intimate relations with his wife. >> >> I am very aware of Matt 7:6. I have more than 6 dozen English language >> Bibles at my disposal, and they all read quite similarly. >> >> But you have a distinct distaste for context; that much is obvious, over >> and over again. The context of Matt 7:6 has not a whit to do with >> matters of marriage and sex; it is a wide view of that which is sacred, >> and makes no reference to either marriage or sex at all. > > It is everything to do with flesh desire, including sex. Or do you > think God also have desire to have sex? That would be a blaspheme. The Father and the Spirit do not have physical bodies, so obviously two of the three persons of the Trinity never desired sex. However, since Jesus was "in every respect has been tempted as we are" (Heb. 4.15), we have every reason to believe he not only desired sex but found the feminine form alluring, though he never allowed lust to enter his mind. -Tim From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 01:23:59 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:23:59 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: You need to consider this point: Do you think Peter need a wife to company him to avoid fornication? 1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. As Peter is one of Jesus chosen disciple, apparently no. So, the wife company Peter could be for other purpose such as the wife also want to work for God, and not travelled for sex. DK On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:34 AM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > My BIBLICAL proof that Peter did NOT leave his wife is written almost 30 > years after Calvary by the Apostle Paul, who I assume knew the facts: > > "Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other > apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Corinthians 9:5) > Notice that "lead about" is in the present tense. > > Cephas is, of course, one of Simon peter's three names. > > Dr. Steve, central old Mexico > > __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas > de virus 5487 (20100928) __________ > > ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. > > http://www.eset.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Sep 29 01:26:19 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:26:19 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA2B22F.3050705@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA2CDFB.20403@staggs.net> On 9/28/2010 11:54 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:27 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> Does he have anything to support this claim? > I have mentioned before: > Mat 19:27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have > forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? > > You said that your Pastor told you that, so he is basing his claim that Peter left his wife on this same reading (misreading in my opinion) of Mat 19:27? Are you honestly trying to encourage Christian's to leave their spouses to better serve God? >> I don't recall any such statement from Scripture, please quote something to support this. The only inner circle that comes to my >> mind is Peter, James and John and we know that Peter was married.... If the "pigs and dogs" comes from Matthew 7:6, YIKES! >> You are WAY out of context with that, in my opinion. > So, what is the correct context for pigs and dogs from Mathew 7:6? > > Certainly not when referring to other believes and fellow servants. Here is what Gill has to say on Matthew 7:6 and it doesn't support your position in the least. Mat 7:6 - Give not that which is holy to the dogs,.... Dogs were unclean creatures by the law; the price of one might not be brought into the house of the Lord, for a vow, Deu_23:18 yea, these creatures were not admitted into several temples of the Heathens (h). Things profane and unclean, as flesh torn by beasts, were ordered to be given to them, Exo_22:31 but nothing that was holy was to be given them, as holy flesh, or the holy oblations, or anything that was consecrated to holy uses; to which is the allusion here. It is a common maxim (i) with the Jews, ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ??????, "that they do not redeem holy things, to give to the dogs to eat".'' Here the phrase is used in a *metaphorical sense; and is generally understood of not delivering or communicating the holy word of God, and the truths of the Gospel, comparable to pearls, or the ordinances of it, to persons notoriously vile and sinful*: to men, who being violent and furious persecutors, and impudent blasphemers, are compared to "dogs"; or to such, who are scandalously vile, impure in their lives and conversations, and are therefore compared to swine; neither cast ye your pearls before swine. But since the subject Christ is upon is reproof, it seems rather to be the design of these expressions, that men should *be cautious, and prudent, in rebuking and admonishing such persons for their sins, in whom there is no appearance or hope of success*; yea, where there is danger of sustaining loss; lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you: that is, despise the admonitions and reproofs given, and hurt the persons who give them, either by words or deeds; see Pro_9:7. The Jews have some sayings much like these, and will serve to illustrate them (k); ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ???????, "do not cast pearls before swine", nor deliver wisdom to him, who knows not the excellency of it; for wisdom is better than pearls, and he that does not seek after it, is worse than a swine.'' (h) Vid. Alex. ab. Alex. Gaeial. Dier. l. 2. c. 14. (i) T. Bab. Temura, fol. 17. 1. & 31. 1. & 33. 2. Becorot, fol. 15. 1. Hieros. Pesachim, fol. 27. 4. & Maaser Sheni, fol. 53. 3. (k) Mischar Happeninim apud Buxtorf. Florileg. Heb. p. 306. >> Not from my words, Paul instructed them to marry "to avoid fornication". > Surely Paul did not need a wife to avoid fornication, or did he? > Paul didn't, but he was clearly advsing others to do so rather than to burn. >> 1 Corinthians 7:1?9 (KJV) Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman. Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband. The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife. Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency. But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn. >> >> I agree that it is calling for "some" people, but to call it "higher" is not for me to say. > Sure there are higher calling, as Paul also mentioned what he wrote is > merely "milk", not "meat" > > 1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye > were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 01:32:28 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:32:28 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <335CFF1F-408E-4526-964E-27BB77D92065@ofb.biz> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <335CFF1F-408E-4526-964E-27BB77D92065@ofb.biz> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Timothy Butler wrote:> > ? ? ? ?Escape from desire is not a Christian goal. Christians are aiming to desire what God desires for us, not to desire nothing at all. > This is a very key difference between Buddhism and Christianity. Hence, we have no interest in what Siddhartha did, at least with > respect to what Christians ought to do. I beg your pardon, but do you want to ignore below verses: 1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; 1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. > ? ? ? ?Unless Paul's instruction in 1 Cor. 7 was wrong (and surely we all agree it is not), then, yes, Peter should have been (and > probably was) having intimate relations with his wife. Paul has mentioned that he did not need sex, so, it is surely something else but sex. > > ? ? ? ?The Father and the Spirit do not have physical bodies, so obviously two of the three persons of the Trinity never desired sex. However, since Jesus was "in every respect has been tempted as we are" (Heb. 4.15), we have every reason to believe he not only desired sex but found the feminine form alluring, though he never allowed lust to enter his mind. That is what Jesus said about pig and dog: Human full of earthly desires. Then sex is included in the earthly desires, right? DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 01:33:34 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:33:34 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> On Sep 29, 2010, at 12:23 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Do you think Peter need a wife to company him to avoid fornication? > > 1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his > own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. > > As Peter is one of Jesus chosen disciple, apparently no. Two problems with your assumptions: 1.) That every man should have a wife to avoid fornication does not mean one should *only* have a wife to avoid fornication. 2.) That Peter was a chosen disciple does not mean he was sinless. On the contrary, the Gospels paint a picture of Peter as a rather sinful, rash person. He's a normal human. -Tim From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 01:38:48 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 00:38:48 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <335CFF1F-408E-4526-964E-27BB77D92065@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <681E58EB-88AC-455E-9BF7-70C6CF6EB7D8@ofb.biz> On Sep 29, 2010, at 12:32 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> Escape from desire is not a Christian goal. Christians are aiming to desire what God desires for us, not to desire nothing at all. >> This is a very key difference between Buddhism and Christianity. Hence, we have no interest in what Siddhartha did, at least with >> respect to what Christians ought to do. > > I beg your pardon, but do you want to ignore below verses: > > 1Pe 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, > abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul; > 1Jn 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the > lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is > of the world. No, not at all. We have to understand what these passages mean in context. For example, 1 John means certain things by "the world," that other New Testament writers such as Paul may not. The big point, here, however is that we ought not to be prideful or fall into lust. Sex within marriage is not lust, but is something good created by our God (see, for example, Song of Songs, which is one big story about the goodness of the physical marriage relationship). > >> Unless Paul's instruction in 1 Cor. 7 was wrong (and surely we all agree it is not), then, yes, Peter should have been (and >> probably was) having intimate relations with his wife. > > Paul has mentioned that he did not need sex, so, it is surely > something else but sex. No, what I mean is that Paul has said marriage partners should not abstain from sex for more than a short while (1 Cor. 7.5). >> >> The Father and the Spirit do not have physical bodies, so obviously two of the three persons of the Trinity never desired sex. However, since Jesus was "in every respect has been tempted as we are" (Heb. 4.15), we have every reason to believe he not only desired sex but found the feminine form alluring, though he never allowed lust to enter his mind. > > That is what Jesus said about pig and dog: Human full of earthly > desires. Then sex is included in the earthly desires, right? Right, but there is nothing wrong with earthly desires, per se. Jesus was a human full of earthly desires, yet he did not sin. For example, Jesus was hungry at times and he desired to sleep at times -- these are "earthly desires," but they are good desires for humans. The desires aren't bad. God made us earthly, fleshly, material people and that fleshly existence was good (Genesis 1.28-31). -Tim From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 01:47:08 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:47:08 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA2B22F.3050705@staggs.net> <4CA2CDFB.20403@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > You said that your Pastor told you that, so he is basing his claim that > Peter left his wife on this same reading (misreading in my opinion) of Mat > 19:27?? Are you honestly trying to encourage Christian's to leave their > spouses to better serve God? Then you did not read my first post properly (but may be the whole bunch of others as well). Let;s take it as I did not write it properly and let me explain more then. 1. The highest standard of sex is celibacy, as Jesus and Paul have demonstrated. 2. Sex in Marriage to have kid is surely according to nature, otherwise will lead human to extinction. This is considered as a holy call as well. 3. Sex in marriage, but just for fun to fulfill our heart desire, no intentioned to bear children. This is not so good. This is like eating not for the health, but eating for fun only. 4. Sex outside marriage, gay/lesbian included 5. etc... What I meant is, I do not agree with gay, but sex in marriage is not the highest standard either. So, we despised the gay only and not despised all imperfection? > Certainly not when referring to other believes and fellow servants. > > Here is what Gill has to say on Matthew 7:6 and it doesn't support your > position in the least. > > Here the phrase is used in a metaphorical sense; and is generally understood > of not delivering or communicating the holy word of God, and the truths of > the Gospel, comparable to pearls, or the ordinances of it, to persons > notoriously vile and sinful: to men, who being violent and furious > persecutors, and impudent blasphemers, are compared to "dogs"; or to such, > who are scandalously vile, impure in their lives and conversations, and are > therefore compared to swine; > > neither cast ye your pearls before swine. But since the subject Christ is > upon is reproof, it seems rather to be the design of these expressions, that > men should be cautious, and prudent, in rebuking and admonishing such > persons for their sins, in whom there is no appearance or hope of success; > yea, where there is danger of sustaining loss; It is surely relevant. If I demand celibacy among people that craving for sex, sure it is like cast my pearls before swine, right? > Not from my words, Paul instructed them to marry "to avoid fornication". > > Surely Paul did not need a wife to avoid fornication, or did he? > > > Paul didn't, but he was clearly advsing others to do so rather than to > burn. So. Paul did not cast his pearl to swine I guess ..... And below verse confirm it: 1Co 3:2 ?I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 01:53:13 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 12:53:13 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <681E58EB-88AC-455E-9BF7-70C6CF6EB7D8@ofb.biz> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <335CFF1F-408E-4526-964E-27BB77D92065@ofb.biz> <681E58EB-88AC-455E-9BF7-70C6CF6EB7D8@ofb.biz> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > > ? ? ? ?No, not at all. We have to understand what these passages mean in context. For example, 1 John means certain things by > "the world," that other New Testament writers such as Paul may not. The big point, here, however is that we ought not to be prideful > or fall into lust. Sex within marriage is not lust, but is something good created by our God (see, for example, Song of Songs, which > is one big story about the goodness of the physical marriage relationship). Song of songs describe about human relation with God, not teach people to have sex. >?No, what I mean is that Paul has said marriage partners should not abstain from sex for more than a short while (1 Cor. 7.5). You mean Peter is unable to control his sex desire? > ? ? ? ?Right, but there is nothing wrong with earthly desires, per se. Jesus was a human full of earthly desires, yet he did not sin. For > example, Jesus was hungry at times and he desired to sleep at times -- these are "earthly desires," but they are good desires for > humans. The desires aren't bad. God made us earthly, fleshly, material people and that fleshly existence was good (Genesis 1.28-31). So, why Jesus did not marry and have sex then? DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 02:00:36 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 01:00:36 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <335CFF1F-408E-4526-964E-27BB77D92065@ofb.biz> <681E58EB-88AC-455E-9BF7-70C6CF6EB7D8@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <51D60325-235E-466C-AC59-D79277624377@ofb.biz> > Song of songs describe about human relation with God, not teach people > to have sex. Actually, while some have tried to suggest that, there is absolutely no support for such a reading. If you read Song of Songs without imposing your presumptions on it, it is clearly erotic (in a good, non-sinful way). That is, if you read the text as the text implies you should read it, it is very much about delighting in the marriage relationship. > >> No, what I mean is that Paul has said marriage partners should not abstain from sex for more than a short while (1 Cor. 7.5). > > You mean Peter is unable to control his sex desire? I don't know. But Paul doesn't say, "Don't abstain unless you have great self-control." He simply says, "Don't abstain." > >> Right, but there is nothing wrong with earthly desires, per se. Jesus was a human full of earthly desires, yet he did not sin. For >> example, Jesus was hungry at times and he desired to sleep at times -- these are "earthly desires," but they are good desires for >> humans. The desires aren't bad. God made us earthly, fleshly, material people and that fleshly existence was good (Genesis 1.28-31). > > So, why Jesus did not marry and have sex then? Because he was not called to do so. Think of it this way: we are all called to different jobs, different countries, different interests. But, for example, if I'm a teacher and your a computer technician, neither one is better than the other -- just different. The Body of Christ is made up of those with many different gifts (1 Cor. 12). Jesus also did not own a computer, drive a car, speak English, etc., etc. But, we cannot conclude that we should all throw away our computers and cars, forget the English language, and go speak Hebrew and Aramaic while living in Israel. -Tim From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 02:01:41 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 13:01:41 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > I don't care who _handled_ the money. ?The fact is that money was > available for their use. ?_Somebody_ among them was making a living so > that somebody else(s) could be handling it. ?That Judas was one of those > handling it is utterly immaterial. You really don't know the lives of Jesus and his 12 disciple do you? Mar 6:8 And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse: Mar 6:9 But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats. And do you think they work for money? No, they live on the mercy of other people (live like beggars). > No, you have not addressed it at all. ?You have attempted to draw > inferences from Hindu culture as proof, an inadequate (as being not > scriptural) source of information and argument to support a claim of a > Christian thesis. ?Unsurprisingly, the thesis is wrong, independently of > the attempt to use an improper source of support for it, because > scripture does not tell us anywhere that aged-ness implies sexlessness; > and indeed on the contrary, instruction in 1Cor 7 tells us otherwise, > without limitation as to age. This is not the "pearl/meat", it is just milk. > What do you do with a married couple of any age, where the wife has, > say, suffered cervical cancer and consequently undergone hysterectomy? > Do you condemn this couple to sexlessness even at a young age? ?You are, > after all, the proponent of "sex without intent for conception is > perversion." If they desire a miracle of God to give them children while having sex, what do you have to say? > I, uh, congratulate you on your tenacity on a failed argumentative position. I am sure it is a winning position, it is just that I am not good enough in explaining it to you. DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 02:13:19 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 01:13:19 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <90429420-DF43-40A5-80EB-DBBD8B364AEE@ofb.biz> On Sep 29, 2010, at 1:01 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> >> I, uh, congratulate you on your tenacity on a failed argumentative position. > > I am sure it is a winning position, it is just that I am not good > enough in explaining it to you. David, the big thing I would urge you to do -- and I think I did this previously when a different topic showed up on this list -- is to try to study Scripture in light of what Christians throughout the ages have understood it to mean. That is, we all have a tendency to read certain things into Scripture. When I ask what are Christians around the globe understanding this to mean, I am checking my own biases as well as the biases of my culture. So, for example, the way you are using the Bible passages you cite to argue for celibacy goes against the normal way people have read and do read those passages. The straight forward way to read Song of Songs and Paul in 1 Cor. 7, etc., is that sex is perfectly good and should be a frequent activity within marriage. That does not mean your reading must be wrong, but it means the burden of proof is on you to prove that the text's meaning is something different than its most obvious reading. For myself, I am leery of taking any position on a passage that goes against the normal reading. I only do so with fear, trepidation and very careful research. I simply do not have reason to trust my own abilities that much. -Tim From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 03:40:01 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 14:40:01 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > ? ? ? ?Two problems with your assumptions: > > ? ? ? ?1.) That every man should have a wife to avoid fornication does not mean one should *only* have a wife to avoid fornication. That means you agree that Peter's wife accompany Peter is not for sex purpose > ? ? ? ?2.) That Peter was a chosen disciple does not mean he was sinless. On the contrary, the Gospels paint a picture of Peter as > a rather sinful, rash person. He's a normal human. Do you mean fornication? DK From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Sep 29 08:15:46 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:15:46 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin> On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 11:40 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Mike McMullin wrote: > > > > Not too mention those couples who just cannot have children for > > varying reasons. > > Then they have very intention to have children, it is very good. And > one of the day, God might give them child/children. Not that I want to go around and around on this, but intent vs ability is irrelevant, they cannot have procreational sex, nor can they have children without adopting. This is not a new discussion, and people have written on the subject, one book that comes to mind is "Intended for Pleasure". You may want to read a bit broader on the subject before digging yourself any deeper. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 08:35:07 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 19:35:07 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> <1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Mike McMullin wrote: >?This is not a new discussion, and people > have written on the subject, one book that comes to mind is "Intended > for Pleasure". Apparently you did not read my first post, I even give the link to Amazon for that book. I have read it through long time ago. DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Sep 29 09:44:58 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 08:44:58 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <4CA2B22F.3050705@staggs.net> <4CA2CDFB.20403@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4CA342DA.5010901@staggs.net> On 9/29/2010 12:47 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:26 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> You said that your Pastor told you that, so he is basing his claim that >> Peter left his wife on this same reading (misreading in my opinion) of Mat >> 19:27? Are you honestly trying to encourage Christian's to leave their >> spouses to better serve God? > Then you did not read my first post properly (but may be the whole > bunch of others as well). Let;s take it as I did not write it properly > and let me explain more then. > > 1. The highest standard of sex is celibacy, as Jesus and Paul have demonstrated. > 2. Sex in Marriage to have kid is surely according to nature, > otherwise will lead human to extinction. This is considered as a holy > call as well. > 3. Sex in marriage, but just for fun to fulfill our heart desire, no > intentioned to bear children. This is not so good. This is like eating > not for the health, but eating for fun only. > 4. Sex outside marriage, gay/lesbian included > 5. etc... > > What I meant is, I do not agree with gay, but sex in marriage is not > the highest standard either. So, we despised the gay only and not > despised all imperfection? > > No, I believe you have made your position, I just don't agree with it. To somehow concoct this pseudo hierarchy whereas the celibate are glorified above others is just plan silly and not Biblical. And to somehow include the SIN of homosexuality in this list of "higher callings" is just blatantly wrong. Makes me wonder if adulterers and child molesters were also included had you continued with you list? You have twisted beyond reason almost every single Scripture quoted to you in a vain attempt to justify your own position. Makes me wonder if your motives are not to falsely glorify celibate homosexuals for some unexplained reason? So I do believe we understand each other very well, and with that said I believe further conversation along these lines would be pointless. -- bstaggs <>< >> Certainly not when referring to other believes and fellow servants. >> >> Here is what Gill has to say on Matthew 7:6 and it doesn't support your >> position in the least. >> >> Here the phrase is used in a metaphorical sense; and is generally understood >> of not delivering or communicating the holy word of God, and the truths of >> the Gospel, comparable to pearls, or the ordinances of it, to persons >> notoriously vile and sinful: to men, who being violent and furious >> persecutors, and impudent blasphemers, are compared to "dogs"; or to such, >> who are scandalously vile, impure in their lives and conversations, and are >> therefore compared to swine; >> >> neither cast ye your pearls before swine. But since the subject Christ is >> upon is reproof, it seems rather to be the design of these expressions, that >> men should be cautious, and prudent, in rebuking and admonishing such >> persons for their sins, in whom there is no appearance or hope of success; >> yea, where there is danger of sustaining loss; > It is surely relevant. If I demand celibacy among people that craving > for sex, sure it is like cast my pearls before swine, right? > >> Not from my words, Paul instructed them to marry "to avoid fornication". >> >> Surely Paul did not need a wife to avoid fornication, or did he? >> >> >> Paul didn't, but he was clearly advsing others to do so rather than to >> burn. > So. Paul did not cast his pearl to swine I guess ..... And below verse > confirm it: > > 1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye > were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Sep 29 10:00:17 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 10:00:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> <1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <1285768817.2477.0.camel@P-733-Lin> On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 19:35 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Mike McMullin wrote: > > This is not a new discussion, and people > > have written on the subject, one book that comes to mind is "Intended > > for Pleasure". > > Apparently you did not read my first post, I even give the link to > Amazon for that book. I have read it through long time ago. That makes me wonder why this discussion even started. From tbutler at ofb.biz Wed Sep 29 10:50:32 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 09:50:32 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> On Sep 29, 2010, at 2:40 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 12:33 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: >> Two problems with your assumptions: >> >> 1.) That every man should have a wife to avoid fornication does not mean one should *only* have a wife to avoid fornication. > > That means you agree that Peter's wife accompany Peter is not for sex purpose No, it means I do not think that was the only reason Peter had a wife. I would hope he actually loved her! I think anyone who has fallen in love knows there is more in that nebulous thing known as romantic love than sexual desire. > >> 2.) That Peter was a chosen disciple does not mean he was sinless. On the contrary, the Gospels paint a picture of Peter as >> a rather sinful, rash person. He's a normal human. > > Do you mean fornication? Not specifically. But, I mean Peter did things that would surely be far worse (e.g. Denying Jesus not once, not twice, but three times). Tim > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Sep 29 21:38:24 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 21:38:24 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Numbers 12 Message-ID: <4CA3EA10.4080905@bibleseven.com> Thursday Numbers 12 Miriam and Aaron Oppose Moses 12:1 Then Miriam and Aaron spoke against Moses because of the Cushite woman he had married (for he had married an Ethiopian woman). 12:2 They said, "Has the Lord only spoken through Moses? Has he not also spoken through us?" And the Lord heard it. 12:3 (Now the man Moses was very humble, more so than any man on the face of the earth.) The Response of the Lord 12:4 The Lord spoke immediately to Moses, Aaron, and Miriam: "The three of you come to the tent of meeting." So the three of them went. 12:5 And the Lord came down in a pillar of cloud and stood at the entrance of the tent; he then called Aaron and Miriam, and they both came forward. 12:6 The Lord said, "Hear now my words: If there is a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known to him in a vision; I will speak with him in a dream. 12:7 My servant Moses is not like this; he is faithful in all my house. 12:8 With him I will speak face to face, openly, and not in riddles; and he will see the form of the Lord. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?" 12:9 The anger of the Lord burned against them, and he departed. 12:10 When the cloud departed from above the tent, Miriam became leprous as snow. Then Aaron looked at Miriam, and she was leprous! The Intercession of Moses 12:11 So Aaron said to Moses, "O my lord, please do not hold this sin against us, in which we have acted foolishly and have sinned! 12:12 Do not let her be like a baby born dead, whose flesh is half-consumed when it comes out of its mother's womb!" 12:13 Then Moses cried to the Lord, "Heal her now, O God." 12:14 The Lord said to Moses, "If her father had only spit in her face, would she not have been disgraced for seven days? Shut her out from the camp seven days, and afterward she can be brought back in again." 12:15 So Miriam was shut outside of the camp for seven days, and the people did not journey on until Miriam was brought back in. 12:16 After that the people moved from Hazeroth and camped in the wilderness of Paran. Prayer Lord, You speak and we listen. What You say is holy and set apart is holy and set apart, it is not our place to ever question You. May I always honor You. Commentary Aaron and Miriam allowed their personal and tribal pride to be used by the enemy to create conflict between themselves and Moses as they challenged his unique authority because he married someone they had not approved. God reminded them that He spoke to prophets in dreams and riddles but He met with Moses "face to face" and therefore Moses was unique among His people. God declared their foolishness to dare challenge the one whom He had anointed. He punished Aaron and Miriam by striking Miriam with the plague of leprosy. Aaron pleaded to Moses and Moses asked God to take her leprosy away -- to which He responded that she would need to be put-out of the camp for the usual 7 days. Interaction Consider this: Moses was known as the most humble man on the face of the earth. One may recall that more than once he confessed himself incapable to meeting God's expectations and welcoming God's blessings upon others to prophesy or to serve as judges. Discuss this: What could Aaron and Miriam hope to gain from challenging Moses? Reflect on this: God could have stuck Aaron and Miriam dead, or could have brought plagues upon both of them and refused to lift them, but He loved Moses and knew the heart of Moses. Share this: When have you challenged someone with spiritual authority, about something petty, and then regretted it? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be challenging someone with spiritual authority, or you are the one being challenged, and how you may not be handling the situation wisely -- or how you are. Action: Today I will repent if I am improperly challenging the authority of a Biblically-recognized authority who is not violating the Bible, a coach/mentor, a counselor, an elder, a parent, a secular authority (government), a teacher, or other. I will repent if I have responded with rage or depression to an improper challenge to my authority -- because it is not genuinely an attack on me but upon God -- and it reveals a lack of humility in me that I take such attacks personally. I will allow God to handle the situation and will rest in my humility before Him. I will share the circumstances with a mature fellow believer, ask them to pray in-agreement with me for wisdom, and will as them to hold me accountable for a humble heart that rests in the Lord. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Numbers 13 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 23:17:08 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:17:08 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > No, it means I do not think that was the only reason Peter had a wife. I would hope he actually loved her! I think anyone who has > fallen in love knows there is more in that nebulous thing known as romantic love than sexual desire. Then Peter's wife accompanying him most likely was not for sex. > Not specifically. But, I mean Peter did things that would surely be far worse (e.g. Denying Jesus not once, not twice, but three > times Then Peter's wife accompanying him most likely was not for sex, but remind Peter about not denying Jesus. And also do not think Barnabas accompany Paul, or Mark accompany Barnabas was also for sex. DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Sep 29 23:22:40 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:22:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> > > No, it means I do not think that was the only reason Peter had a > > wife. I would hope he actually loved her! I think anyone who has > > fallen in love knows there is more in that nebulous thing known as > > romantic love than sexual desire. > > Then Peter's wife accompanying him most likely was not for sex. What is the Biblically-based motivation for your unusual insistence upon torturing the text in an effort to make functional eunuchs of men who are "making disciples" rather than "making babies" as they follow Christ? > > Not specifically. But, I mean Peter did things that would surely be > > far worse (e.g. Denying Jesus not once, not twice, but three times > > Then Peter's wife accompanying him most likely was not for sex, but > remind Peter about not denying Jesus. And also do not think Barnabas > accompany Paul, or Mark accompany Barnabas was also for sex. The text does not support this and it is abysmal scholarship to force a foreign meaning upon the Biblical text. Why are you so stuck on this, please? What is your purpose? There must be a reason that you are so zealously invested in this. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Sep 29 23:36:17 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:36:17 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:22 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > What is the Biblically-based motivation for your unusual insistence upon > torturing the text in an effort to make functional eunuchs of men who > are "making disciples" rather than "making babies" as they follow > Christ? How many times I have to repeat this verse: Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. >> > Not specifically. But, I mean Peter did things that would surely be >> > far worse (e.g. Denying Jesus not once, not twice, but three times >> >> ?Then Peter's wife accompanying him most likely ?was not for sex, but >> ?remind Peter about not denying Jesus. And also do not think Barnabas >> ?accompany Paul, or Mark accompany Barnabas was also for sex. > > The text does not support this and it is abysmal scholarship to force a > foreign meaning upon the Biblical text. > > Why are you so stuck on this, please? > > What is your purpose? Please discuss the subject. Those apostle were not craving for sex and Peter's wife surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of God. That is what I want to clarify. Do you agree? DK From karl at kleinpaste.org Wed Sep 29 23:46:15 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2010 23:46:15 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2010 10:36:17 +0700") References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: > Mat 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their > mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of > men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the > kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him > receive it. It is not in context to Peter. There is no biblical suggestion anywhere that Peter ever "made [himself] a eunuch." > Please discuss the subject. Those apostle were not craving for sex and > Peter's wife surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of > God. That is what I want to clarify. Do you agree? Not even a little bit. Why do you have this most peculiar insistence on a strictly either/or belief about apostles' service to the church? Why is it that you cannot conceive of Peter having a wife with whom he was intimate while also preaching and teaching his faith? Where is the supposed conflict? From where does the insistence originate? It has been said that, if one finds oneself on a theological island, one is probably in the wrong place. Your island is deserted, save for yourself. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 00:15:25 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:15:25 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > It is not in context to Peter. ?There is no biblical suggestion anywhere > that Peter ever "made [himself] a eunuch." But this is Jesus instruction to his disciple and Peter is one of the closest disciple. > Not even a little bit. > > Why do you have this most peculiar insistence on a strictly either/or > belief about apostles' service to the church? ?Why is it that you cannot > conceive of Peter having a wife with whom he was intimate while also > preaching and teaching his faith? ?Where is the supposed conflict? ?From > where does the insistence originate? >From Jesus teaching in the above verse. > It has been said that, if one finds oneself on a theological island, one > is probably in the wrong place. > > Your island is deserted, save for yourself. Here you are against the bible again. Please check below verses: Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. If there are many agree with you, that means it is the wide gate or the broad way, isn't it? DK From karl at kleinpaste.org Thu Sep 30 00:53:13 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:53:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: (David Kuntadi's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:15:25 +0700") References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: David Kuntadi writes: >> It is not in context to Peter. ?There is no biblical suggestion anywhere >> that Peter ever "made [himself] a eunuch." > But this is Jesus instruction to his disciple and Peter is one of the > closest disciple. The context of the verse is that "some" are eunuchs. That's all. It is not a statement of fact, nor a command, nor anything else of such a sort, directed at the disciples, as being Jesus' intent for them. It is merely Jesus' observation that "some" are. Not "you" [the disciples] are, or will be, or even should be. After all, Peter had a wife, this we know; she was around before Jesus came into Peter's life, she was there at least somewhat during Jesus' time with Peter, and she was still around and traveling with Peter after the resurrection. It would have been mighty darn peculiar for Jesus to command the actual abandonment of Peter's wife so that Peter could eunuch-ify himself. There is not one word of Biblical content which you can cite which says, literally or in effect, "Peter became a eunuch." It is nonsense. It is antibiblical. It is heresy. For some reason, you are unable to perceive Peter as being a man with a wife, capable of acting both in his capacity as husband, including having a normal sexuality with her, as well as in his capacity as teacher/preacher of the gospel. As to why you are unable to achieve this really rather minor feat... I don't even care to guess. >> It has been said that, if one finds oneself on a theological island, one >> is probably in the wrong place. >> Your island is deserted, save for yourself. > Here you are against the bible again. Please check below verses: ... > If there are many agree with you, that means it is the wide gate or > the broad way, isn't it? No. Your lack of skill in exegesis is shocking. Every heretic since the resurrection has claimed to have been all alone in having the Special Knowledge necessary to Really Be A True Believer, when it is otherwise plain fact that Jesus' salvation is for all. This flaw was the fundamental nature of the gnostic heretics at the time of the early church: They claimed to be the special ones, the ones with the inside scoop, the ones who *really* knew what Jesus was saying, when all the recorded words just didn't say what they wanted them to say. Just as yourself, here, now. Yes, few will find the way. There are rather few genuine believing Christians in the world, really, when you get right down to it. Lots of lip service for it, but not that many who are real, and that's for those who call themselves Christian at all; the other 4 billion or so people don't even get that far. But we, here, are not those lost ones. We, here, are among the believers who study the Bible, and converse about the Bible, and debate theology, and work out the necessary, logical conclusions of our shared faith. The narrow gate is not the "one-man-only gate, and his name is David Kuntadi." Even the narrow gate is plenty wide enough to accommodate as many of us as are genuinely among the elect. By making such a claim that the rest of us (and particularly myself, right this instant, since you are responding to me) are doomed to fail by going through the wide gate, you are actually standing in judgment of our/my faith. I refer you to Rom 14:4 on the matter: The Lord is plenty capable to make me stand, and to guide me through the proper gate to that point where he will make me stand. Your conclusions are not logical. They are beyond absurd. They are contrary to the plain words on the pages in front of you. You have created an amazing construct by deciding how history must have played out, in the utter absence of any explicit command by Jesus that Peter should become a eunuch, and in denying that a wife and husband traveling together would have reasonably expected to engage in a normal sexuality. Jesus did not command Peter to "become a eunuch." Nothing in Matt 19 says so. You are reading into the text what you want to see. Why you want to see such things, I doubt any of us here can say. It is a perverted twisting of otherwise obvious intent to some nefarious purpose. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 01:27:35 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 12:27:35 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > > It is not a statement of fact, nor a command, nor anything else of such > a sort, directed at the disciples, as being Jesus' intent for them. ?It > is merely Jesus' observation that "some" are. ?Not "you" [the disciples] > are, or will be, or even should be. ?After all, Peter had a wife, this > we know; she was around before Jesus came into Peter's life, she was > there at least somewhat during Jesus' time with Peter, and she was still > around and traveling with Peter after the resurrection. Read again slowly and think before you reply: "..and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it." If even apostales could not receive it, who could receive it? Do you think Jesus talking nonsense? > > It would have been mighty darn peculiar for Jesus to command the actual > abandonment of Peter's wife so that Peter could eunuch-ify himself. > > There is not one word of Biblical content which you can cite which says, > literally or in effect, "Peter became a eunuch." ?It is nonsense. ?It is > antibiblical. ?It is heresy. ?For some reason, you are unable to > perceive Peter as being a man with a wife, capable of acting both in his > capacity as husband, including having a normal sexuality with her, as > well as in his capacity as teacher/preacher of the gospel. ?As to why > you are unable to achieve this really rather minor feat... ?I don't even > care to guess. Let's say, for some reason, a husband could not fulfill his job (erectile dysfunction), could he remain to be a good husband? > > No. ?Your lack of skill in exegesis is shocking. > > Every heretic since the resurrection has claimed to have been all alone > in having the Special Knowledge necessary to Really Be A True Believer, I never claim that. I am still a catholic, which is the major "Christian Sect" in the world. > when it is otherwise plain fact that Jesus' salvation is for all. ?This > flaw was the fundamental nature of the gnostic heretics at the time of > the early church: They claimed to be the special ones, the ones with the > inside scoop, the ones who *really* knew what Jesus was saying, when all > the recorded words just didn't say what they wanted them to say. ?Just > as yourself, here, now. I have biblical verse to support my argument, right? > Yes, few will find the way. ?There are rather few genuine believing > Christians in the world, really, when you get right down to it. ?Lots of > lip service for it, but not that many who are real, and that's for those > who call themselves Christian at all; the other 4 billion or so people > don't even get that far. Count me in the "lip service" group. As the more I understand the bible, the more difficult for me to do it. > The narrow gate is not the "one-man-only gate, and his name is David > Kuntadi." ?Even the narrow gate is plenty wide enough to accommodate as > many of us as are genuinely among the elect. ?By making such a claim > that the rest of us (and particularly myself, right this instant, since > you are responding to me) are doomed to fail by going through the wide > gate, you are actually standing in judgment of our/my faith. I never say that, I just quote the scripture that if we are alone, it is not necessarily wrong. Just don't base our faith on vote: the more people agree to it, the better. Faith should be personal, nobody else there. That is the theological island for my self, not for you. So, please feel free to find your own island. > > Your conclusions are not logical. ?They are beyond absurd. ?They are > contrary to the plain words on the pages in front of you. ?You have > created an amazing construct by deciding how history must have played > out, in the utter absence of any explicit command by Jesus that Peter > should become a eunuch, and in denying that a wife and husband traveling > together would have reasonably expected to engage in a normal sexuality. Let me repeat the verses I quote in my first post ( I add one verse though): Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mat 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mat 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mat 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mat 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Thu Sep 30 02:31:20 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 01:31:20 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <126188CA-F90A-4F4D-94F5-E6E655C21699@ofb.biz> On Sep 29, 2010, at 10:17 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: >> No, it means I do not think that was the only reason Peter had a wife. I would hope he actually loved her! I think anyone who has >> fallen in love knows there is more in that nebulous thing known as romantic love than sexual desire. > > Then Peter's wife accompanying him most likely was not for sex. That does not follow logically. Note you are imposing your assumptions without any evidence. Again, that would violate 1 Cor. 7. This means to attempt to prove a point that is not in Scripture, you have Peter violating Scripture. I see you mention you are Catholic. Note that what you are saying is not supported by Catholic teaching. You are actually bordering on teachings the Catholic Church condemned. Tim > From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 02:37:35 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:37:35 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: <126188CA-F90A-4F4D-94F5-E6E655C21699@ofb.biz> References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <126188CA-F90A-4F4D-94F5-E6E655C21699@ofb.biz> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: > > That does not follow logically. Note you are imposing your assumptions without any evidence. You want evidence? Our pastor is celibate, our Popes are celibate. Do you meant that is not evidence? > > Again, that would violate 1 Cor. 7. This means to attempt to prove a point that is not in Scripture, you have Peter violating Scripture. > > I see you mention you are Catholic. Note that what you are saying is not supported by Catholic teaching. You are actually bordering on teachings the Catholic Church condemned. Do you mean our Pope's and pastors' celibacy is not supported by Catholic teaching? I am really confused! DK From tbutler at ofb.biz Thu Sep 30 10:20:16 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 09:20:16 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <126188CA-F90A-4F4D-94F5-E6E655C21699@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <2BBD14C0-75DD-40D3-AE96-EAE608489903@ofb.biz> On Sep 30, 2010, at 1:37 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Timothy Butler wrote: >> >> That does not follow logically. Note you are imposing your assumptions without any evidence. > > You want evidence? Our pastor is celibate, our Popes are celibate. Do > you meant that is not evidence? No, it is not. For Protestants, Eastern Orthodox and even some Catholic rites, pastors and priests need not be celibate. All that priestly celibacy in some quarters demonstrates is that some priests are celibate, it cannot assert whether priestly celibacy is a "higher calling." >> >> Again, that would violate 1 Cor. 7. This means to attempt to prove a point that is not in Scripture, you have Peter violating Scripture. >> >> I see you mention you are Catholic. Note that what you are saying is not supported by Catholic teaching. You are actually bordering on teachings the Catholic Church condemned. > > Do you mean our Pope's and pastors' celibacy is not supported by > Catholic teaching? I am really confused! No, the idea that normal sexual relations in marriage are too worldly and must be escaped is what I am referring to. That borders on what is known as Gnosticism and was declared a heresy by the Church. To suggest marriage before the fall was due to Adam's lust is to suggest the imperfection of the creation and, by extension, the Creator. This is contrary to the teaching of Scripture and the Church, obviously! What you have been describing sounds more like Buddhism than Catholic theology. Note that marriage is one of the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church. That means marriage is not a mere necessity for some, but something that actually bestows grace upon those being married. While the Catholic Church does emphasize the advantages of celibacy, the fact that within portions of the Catholic Church priests can be married helps to demonstrate quite visibly that the church does not hold that priestly celibacy is necessary for proper ministry. For example, clergy in the Anglican Use Rite can be married. Eastern Orthodoxy, which has a valid episcopate from a Catholic standpoint, allows any priest to be married, so long as he marries before ordination. While bishops must be celibate, the rationale seems tied to 1 Cor. 7, e.g. the unmarried have one less thing to "worry about" and thus can focus on shepherding. There is no implication that the priest who is married is more sinful than the priest who is not married. (Note: I am neither Catholic nor Orthodox... I am Presbyterian. In our system, a married pastor can be at any level of the organization.) Tim > From parrisdc at gmail.com Thu Sep 30 13:14:08 2010 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:14:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: <1285768817.2477.0.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> <1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin> <1285768817.2477.0.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:00, Mike McMullin wrote: > On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 19:35 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote: > > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Mike McMullin > wrote: > > > This is not a new discussion, and people > > > have written on the subject, one book that comes to mind is "Intended > > > for Pleasure". > > > > Apparently you did not read my first post, I even give the link to > > Amazon for that book. I have read it through long time ago. > > That makes me wonder why this discussion even started. > > > Mike, I agree - it's a pretty fruitless discussion. That said, I really appreciated Peter's position on the attitudes of Christians towards homosexuals - or other sinners, for that matter... Blessings, Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris http://www.facebook.com/don.parris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Sep 30 18:48:58 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:48:58 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian In-Reply-To: References: <1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin> <1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin> <1285768817.2477.0.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <4CA513DA.8070500@bibleseven.com> Everywhere I have ever served in ministry or studied the Word the understanding was always that Biblical Christians are to "Challenge the sin and to love the sinner" Since everyone is challenged by sin and everyone desires that their fellow saints love them enough to lovingly and prayerfully walk alongside them to freedom and healing as Jesus does - in "loving others as we love ourselves" we model right Biblical responses to sin (including mangling scripture). ;-) The Bible is quite specific that it is a sin to ignore a brother who is drifting into sin. We are required to confront our brother in love, not in arrogant condescension (such is a prideful prelude to our own fall), we are to be unafraid to shine the same light of truth into their dark place that we'd have them shine for us. The light of truth is sometimes painful when we've grown accustomed to making excuses for the darkness of a lie - which is what every sin is - a lie. The Biblical Christian family needs a truth-intervention now and then! > Mike, I agree - it's a pretty fruitless discussion. That said, I > really appreciated Peter's position on the attitudes of Christians > towards homosexuals - or other sinners, for that matter... > > Blessings, Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M Minister, Security/FM > Coordinator, Free Software Advocate > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Sep 30 20:28:20 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:28:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Numbers 13 Message-ID: <4CA52B24.4090903@bibleseven.com> Friday Numbers 13 Spies Sent Out 13:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 13:2 "Send out men to investigate the land of Canaan, which I am giving to the Israelites. You are to send one man from each ancestral tribe, each one a leader among them." 13:3 So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran at the command of the Lord. All of them were leaders of the Israelites. 13:4 Now these were their names: from the tribe of Reuben, Shammua son of Zaccur; 13:5 from the tribe of Simeon, Shaphat son of Hori; 13:6 from the tribe of Judah, Caleb son of Jephunneh; 13:7 from the tribe of Issachar, Igal son of Joseph; 13:8 from the tribe of Ephraim, Hoshea son of Nun; 13:9 from the tribe of Benjamin, Palti son of Raphu; 13:10 from the tribe of Zebulun, Gaddiel son of Sodi; 13:11 from the tribe of Joseph, namely, the tribe of Manasseh, Gaddi son of Susi; 13:12 from the tribe of Dan, Ammiel son of Gemalli; 13:13 from the tribe of Asher, Sethur son of Michael; 13:14 from the tribe of Naphtali, Nahbi son of Vopshi; 13:15 from the tribe of Gad, Geuel son of Maki. 13:16 These are the names of the men whom Moses sent to investigate the land. And Moses gave Hoshea son of Nun the name Joshua. The Spies' Instructions 13:17 When Moses sent them to investigate the land of Canaan, he told them, "Go up through the Negev, and then go up into the hill country 13:18 and see what the land is like, and whether the people who live in it are strong or weak, few or many, 13:19 and whether the land they live in is good or bad, and whether the cities they inhabit are like camps or fortified cities, 13:20 and whether the land is rich or poor, and whether or not there are forests in it. And be brave, and bring back some of the fruit of the land." Now it was the time of year for the first ripe grapes. The Spies' Activities 13:21 So they went up and investigated the land from the wilderness of Zin to Rehob, at the entrance of Hamath. 13:22 When they went up through the Negev, they came to Hebron where Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, descendants of Anak, were living. (Now Hebron had been built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.) 13:23 When they came to the valley of Eshcol, they cut down from there a branch with one cluster of grapes, and they carried it on a staff between two men, as well as some of the pomegranates and the figs. 13:24 That place was called the Eshcol Valley, because of the cluster of grapes that the Israelites cut from there. 13:25 They returned from investigating the land after forty days. The Spies' Reports 13:26 They came back to Moses and Aaron and to the whole community of the Israelites in the wilderness of Paran at Kadesh. They reported to the whole community and showed the fruit of the land. 13:27 They told Moses, "We went to the land where you sent us. It is indeed flowing with milk and honey, and this is its fruit. 13:28 But the inhabitants are strong, and the cities are fortified and very large. Moreover we saw the descendants of Anak there. 13:29 The Amalekites live in the land of the Negev; the Hittites, Jebusites, and Amorites live in the hill country; and the Canaanites live by the sea and along the banks of the Jordan." 13:30 Then Caleb silenced the people before Moses, saying, "Let us go up and occupy it, for we are well able to conquer it." 13:31 But the men who had gone up with him said, "We are not able to go up against these people, because they are stronger than we are!" 13:32 Then they presented the Israelites with a discouraging report of the land they had investigated, saying, "The land that we passed through to investigate is a land that devours its inhabitants. All the people we saw there are of great stature. 13:33 We even saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak came from the Nephilim), and we seemed liked grasshoppers both to ourselves and to them." Prayer Lord, You never make a promise that You fail to keep, and You never send us where we cannot -- in Your power -- prevail. No matter the challenge may I never doubt Your promises. Commentary The Lord God gave Moses instructions to send leaders from all of the tribes to investigate the land of Canaan, the land that He was giving to Israel, as promised. Moses instructed them as to how they should approach the land, what to look for, and to bring back some of the produce of the land. They were gone for 40 days and returned with a great deal of produce which they showed the people and brought to Moses. They reported that the land was filled with large and strong people and was fortified. Caleb called them to silence and declared that they should enter and take the land. They replied with a discouraging report that the land was one of conflict and the people labored mightily to develop and farm it. They described the men as large and strong, even making reference to the fables of old of Nephilim "giants", declaring that it was impossible to Israel to prevail. Interaction Consider this: The Lord God never suggested that the ones He had sent were to return with an opinion as to whether the land was theirs nor whether they could take the land, He had already promised it to them. Discuss this: How often had the people if Israel previously doubted God? Why had they not yet learned? Reflect on this: God had overwhelmed the entire empire of Egypt and now the Israelites doubted that He could deliver this land to them? Share this: When have you been faced with a difficulty in doing what God asked of you? Did you hesitate? Why? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you are seeing a challenge though your human eyes and not the eyes of the almighty God. Action: Today I will prayerfully submit to the Holy Spirit's vision of my world. I will bring any doubts and fears I have to Him. I will accept whatever challenge He places before me without any doubts that He is able. I agree to step-out in faith and will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement with me for courage and trust and wisdom. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Numbers 14 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Sep 30 22:51:34 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 22:51:34 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE HIS WIFE. In-Reply-To: References: <4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net> <6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz> <6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz> <4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com> On 09/29/2010 11:46 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote: > It is not in context to Peter. There is no biblical suggestion anywhere > that Peter ever "made [himself] a eunuch." > > >> > Please discuss the subject. Those apostle were not craving for sex and >> > Peter's wife surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of >> > God. That is what I want to clarify. Do you agree? >> > Not even a little bit. > > Why do you have this most peculiar insistence on a strictly either/or > belief about apostles' service to the church? Why is it that you cannot > conceive of Peter having a wife with whom he was intimate while also > preaching and teaching his faith? Where is the supposed conflict? From > where does the insistence originate? > > It has been said that, if one finds oneself on a theological island, one > is probably in the wrong place. > > Your island is deserted, save for yourself. > And, will in time, be submerged into a deep abyss under a LOT of water. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown