From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Fri Oct  1 01:36:36 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 01:36:36 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikm1Uv1E+fF2=jnEsBinf3vyZ-708KrPAzk8wrL@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxky6al3dk2.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTikUbUf-uz330MkOM1fhAiv0vE5QY1qrgGRThNpV@mail.gmail.com>
	<1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTinVG0CFiLawHtg2yySK=3QowFO9n1Ch4VM_A2jR@mail.gmail.com>
	<1285768817.2477.0.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTikm1Uv1E+fF2=jnEsBinf3vyZ-708KrPAzk8wrL@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1285911396.7299.12.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Thu, 2010-09-30 at 13:14 -0400, Don Parris wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:00, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net>
> wrote:
>         On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 19:35 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote:
>         > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Mike McMullin
>         <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:
>         > > This is not a new discussion, and people
>         > > have written on the subject, one book that comes to mind
>         is "Intended
>         > > for Pleasure".
>         >
>         > Apparently you did not read my first post, I even give the
>         link to
>         > Amazon for that book. I have read it through long time ago.
>         
>         
>          That makes me wonder why this discussion even started.
>         
>         
>         
>         
>  
> Mike, I agree - it's a pretty fruitless discussion.  That said, I
> really appreciated Peter's position on the attitudes of Christians
> towards homosexuals - or other sinners, for that matter...

  Agreed, and it's good to hear from you again.  :)


From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 10:54:46 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 10:54:46 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: My stand on Gay/Lesbian
In-Reply-To: <1285911396.7299.12.camel@P-733-Lin>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxky6al3dk2.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<1285733599.7306.2.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTikUbUf-uz330MkOM1fhAiv0vE5QY1qrgGRThNpV@mail.gmail.com>
	<1285762546.2378.8.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTinVG0CFiLawHtg2yySK=3QowFO9n1Ch4VM_A2jR@mail.gmail.com>
	<1285768817.2477.0.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTikm1Uv1E+fF2=jnEsBinf3vyZ-708KrPAzk8wrL@mail.gmail.com>
	<1285911396.7299.12.camel@P-733-Lin>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinDSAEWBO3UD844Sv287wyOMtz_8u+WqPDMSC32@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 01:36, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 2010-09-30 at 13:14 -0400, Don Parris wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 10:00, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net>
> > wrote:
> >         On Wed, 2010-09-29 at 19:35 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote:
> >         > On Wed, Sep 29, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Mike McMullin
> >         <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:
> >         > > This is not a new discussion, and people
> >         > > have written on the subject, one book that comes to mind
> >         is "Intended
> >         > > for Pleasure".
> >         >
> >         > Apparently you did not read my first post, I even give the
> >         link to
> >         > Amazon for that book. I have read it through long time ago.
> >
> >
> >          That makes me wonder why this discussion even started.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mike, I agree - it's a pretty fruitless discussion.  That said, I
> > really appreciated Peter's position on the attitudes of Christians
> > towards homosexuals - or other sinners, for that matter...
>
>   Agreed, and it's good to hear from you again.  :)
>
>
> Thanks!  Good to 'see' you again, too!  :-)

Don
-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 11:42:51 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:42:51 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 22:51, Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com> wrote:

> On 09/29/2010 11:46 PM, Karl Kleinpaste wrote:
> > It is not in context to Peter.  There is no biblical suggestion anywhere
> > that Peter ever "made [himself] a eunuch."
> >
> >
> >> > Please discuss the subject. Those apostle were not craving for sex and
> >> > Peter's wife surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of
> >> > God. That is what I want to clarify. Do you agree?
> >>
> > Not even a little bit.
> >>
>

Hi DK, I hope you will forgive me, as it has been a long time since I have
been active on this list.  I have followed this thread, along with it's
initial thread (stand on gay/lesbian thread), and just want to ask whether
English is your first language?  I ask because I recognize that, in my
experience with people from various continents, who speak different
languages, there is usually some difference in the form of logic applied
when expressing ourselves.

The logic you apply in your responses tends to be - sorry if this is too
blunt - very foreign to us as native speakers of English.  If English is
your first language, may I suggest taking a course in reading comprehension?

For example, if Peter's wife accompanied him for any reason, it would be
because she was his wife.  Surely she supported his efforts to spread the
gospel, but she also surely supported him emotionally, sexually, etc.  What
our brothers are trying to help you understand is that, short of the Bible
stating so explicitly, there is no way whatsoever to arrive at any
conclusion that suggests they did so. Examples:
<> "Peter and his wife ceased sexual relations so they could be pure"
<> "Peter left his wife to spread the good news abroad"
<> "Peter never saw ('knew') his wife again"

But there are no such statements that could lead us to your conclusion.  The
logic you apply - "Those apostle were not craving for sex and Peter's wife
surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of God." - is
completely foreign to me... and dare I say, to most of us on this list.



> > Your island is deserted, save for yourself.
>

I am tempted to agree with our brothers on this point - your logic is so
completely foreign that it is difficult to believe anything other than that
you intentionally misinterpret the scriptures.  Even for those from
different linguistic backgrounds, there is usually much better understanding
than what you demonstrate here.

Don
-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 11:49:27 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:49:27 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
Message-ID: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even though it
continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.  I have FF 3.6.10 running on
Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).

Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some setting I
can change to correct this?  I really don't care for Chrome, and yet have to
use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.

Thanks!
Don
-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From gorkon at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 11:56:01 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 11:56:01 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>

Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you aren't
blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
On Oct 1, 2010 11:49 AM, "Don Parris" <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even though it
> continues to work just fine in Google Chrome. I have FF 3.6.10 running on
> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).
>
> Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some setting
I
> can change to correct this? I really don't care for Chrome, and yet have
to
> use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.
>
> Thanks!
> Don
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:06:37 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:06:37 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you aren't
> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>
> Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why Chrome would interfere?
It didn't before.


-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From gorkon at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:17:13 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:17:13 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of late.  I interchange
with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.

Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.



On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.? Also make sure you aren't
>> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>
> Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.? Any idea why Chrome would interfere?
> It didn't before.
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:25:38 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:25:38 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>

I've made no progress in the meantime.  I removed flash-plugin-nonfree,
flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as well as
Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still no
sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.  I feel like
there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:

> I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of late.  I interchange
> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
>
> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you aren't
> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
> >
> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why Chrome would interfere?
> > It didn't before.
> >
> >
> > --
> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux4christians mailing list
> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Joel McLaughlin
> Life in Ohio Podcast
> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
> gorkon at gmail.com
> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
> joel at geardiary.com
> geardiary.com
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:29:23 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:29:23 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik0oDwRAYkSkDseJr1DKW5sYpFbqqXJSHZaBybQ@mail.gmail.com>

I should also add that FF shows Flash 9.0 r124 as the Flash plugin.  But I
can't even seem to disable it.  When I've tried that, it just re-enables on
restarting Firefox.



On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:

> I've made no progress in the meantime.  I removed flash-plugin-nonfree,
> flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as well as
> Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still no
> sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.  I feel like
> there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of late.  I interchange
>> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
>>
>> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you aren't
>> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>> >
>> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why Chrome would
>> interfere?
>> > It didn't before.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Linux4christians mailing list
>> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel McLaughlin
>> Life in Ohio Podcast
>> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>> gorkon at gmail.com
>> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>> joel at geardiary.com
>> geardiary.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux4christians mailing list
>> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>>
>
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>



-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From gorkon at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:37:12 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:37:12 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>

That's weird.  Do you have pulseaudio installed?  Did you remove it?
Sometimes if you have a app open that uses sound and it's pumping
direct through ALSA, it will take over the soundcard until the app is
closed.  Pulseaudio rectifys this, but some people have nothing but
issues with it so they go back to ALSA.


On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> I've made no progress in the meantime.? I removed flash-plugin-nonfree,
> flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as well as
> Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still no
> sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.? I feel like
> there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I don't know. ?I haven't had that problem as of late. ?I interchange
>> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
>>
>> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.? Also make sure you aren't
>> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>> >
>> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.? Any idea why Chrome would
>> > interfere?
>> > It didn't before.
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Linux4christians mailing list
>> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel McLaughlin
>> Life in Ohio Podcast
>> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>> gorkon at gmail.com
>> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>> joel at geardiary.com
>> geardiary.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux4christians mailing list
>> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:45:29 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:45:29 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=iaG7tUA=og5QPtwyPyaMjXQ3peCKLBM+Lunoi@mail.gmail.com>

I do have pulseaudio installed.  In my latest effort, I removed the solitary
adobe-flashplugin package, disabled Flashplugin 9.0 in FF, and then used the
FF Addons to test and update Flash.  Still no joy - oddly, FF still shows
I'm using Flash 9.0 - it's like it doesn't recognize the upgrade to 10.0.


On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:37, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:

> That's weird.  Do you have pulseaudio installed?  Did you remove it?
> Sometimes if you have a app open that uses sound and it's pumping
> direct through ALSA, it will take over the soundcard until the app is
> closed.  Pulseaudio rectifys this, but some people have nothing but
> issues with it so they go back to ALSA.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've made no progress in the meantime.  I removed flash-plugin-nonfree,
> > flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as well
> as
> > Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still no
> > sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.  I feel like
> > there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of late.  I interchange
> >> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
> >>
> >> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you
> aren't
> >> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
> >> >
> >> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why Chrome would
> >> > interfere?
> >> > It didn't before.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> >> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> >> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> >> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> >> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Linux4christians mailing list
> >> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> >> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Joel McLaughlin
> >> Life in Ohio Podcast
> >> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
> >> gorkon at gmail.com
> >> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
> >> joel at geardiary.com
> >> geardiary.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Linux4christians mailing list
> >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux4christians mailing list
> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Joel McLaughlin
> Life in Ohio Podcast
> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
> gorkon at gmail.com
> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
> joel at geardiary.com
> geardiary.com
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
-------------- next part --------------
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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:46:30 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:46:30 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=iaG7tUA=og5QPtwyPyaMjXQ3peCKLBM+Lunoi@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=iaG7tUA=og5QPtwyPyaMjXQ3peCKLBM+Lunoi@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinMHQEnztfi-rSZiQm0K6PmsdkAkqg0Hcq2cEsP@mail.gmail.com>

I don't think it's the sound system - if I have sound in Chrome I should
have it in FF too... but the problem seems to be that FF isn't upgrading the
Flash installation properly.

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:45, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:

> I do have pulseaudio installed.  In my latest effort, I removed the
> solitary adobe-flashplugin package, disabled Flashplugin 9.0 in FF, and then
> used the FF Addons to test and update Flash.  Still no joy - oddly, FF still
> shows I'm using Flash 9.0 - it's like it doesn't recognize the upgrade to
> 10.0.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:37, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> That's weird.  Do you have pulseaudio installed?  Did you remove it?
>> Sometimes if you have a app open that uses sound and it's pumping
>> direct through ALSA, it will take over the soundcard until the app is
>> closed.  Pulseaudio rectifys this, but some people have nothing but
>> issues with it so they go back to ALSA.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > I've made no progress in the meantime.  I removed flash-plugin-nonfree,
>> > flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as
>> well as
>> > Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still no
>> > sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.  I feel
>> like
>> > there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...
>> >
>> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of late.  I interchange
>> >> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
>> >>
>> >> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you
>> aren't
>> >> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why Chrome would
>> >> > interfere?
>> >> > It didn't before.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>> >> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>> >> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>> >> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>> >> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>> >> >
>> >> > _______________________________________________
>> >> > Linux4christians mailing list
>> >> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> >> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Joel McLaughlin
>> >> Life in Ohio Podcast
>> >> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>> >> gorkon at gmail.com
>> >> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>> >> joel at geardiary.com
>> >> geardiary.com
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Linux4christians mailing list
>> >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Linux4christians mailing list
>> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Joel McLaughlin
>> Life in Ohio Podcast
>> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>> gorkon at gmail.com
>> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>> joel at geardiary.com
>> geardiary.com
>> _______________________________________________
>> Linux4christians mailing list
>> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>>
>
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>



-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
-------------- next part --------------
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From gorkon at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:47:25 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:47:25 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinMHQEnztfi-rSZiQm0K6PmsdkAkqg0Hcq2cEsP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=iaG7tUA=og5QPtwyPyaMjXQ3peCKLBM+Lunoi@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinMHQEnztfi-rSZiQm0K6PmsdkAkqg0Hcq2cEsP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikxJkx+b_CEP7_VwFNKDDakG8aJ_fH3NzS2JGro@mail.gmail.com>

What distro?

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think it's the sound system - if I have sound in Chrome I should
> have it in FF too... but the problem seems to be that FF isn't upgrading the
> Flash installation properly.
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:45, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I do have pulseaudio installed.? In my latest effort, I removed the
>> solitary adobe-flashplugin package, disabled Flashplugin 9.0 in FF, and then
>> used the FF Addons to test and update Flash.? Still no joy - oddly, FF still
>> shows I'm using Flash 9.0 - it's like it doesn't recognize the upgrade to
>> 10.0.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:37, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> That's weird. ?Do you have pulseaudio installed? ?Did you remove it?
>>> Sometimes if you have a app open that uses sound and it's pumping
>>> direct through ALSA, it will take over the soundcard until the app is
>>> closed. ?Pulseaudio rectifys this, but some people have nothing but
>>> issues with it so they go back to ALSA.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > I've made no progress in the meantime.? I removed flash-plugin-nonfree,
>>> > flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as
>>> > well as
>>> > Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still no
>>> > sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.? I feel
>>> > like
>>> > there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...
>>> >
>>> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> I don't know. ?I haven't had that problem as of late. ?I interchange
>>> >> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
>>> >>
>>> >> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com>
>>> >> > wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.? Also make sure you
>>> >> >> aren't
>>> >> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.? Any idea why Chrome would
>>> >> > interfere?
>>> >> > It didn't before.
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > --
>>> >> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>>> >> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>>> >> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>>> >> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>>> >> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>>> >> >
>>> >> > _______________________________________________
>>> >> > Linux4christians mailing list
>>> >> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>>> >> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Joel McLaughlin
>>> >> Life in Ohio Podcast
>>> >> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>>> >> gorkon at gmail.com
>>> >> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>>> >> joel at geardiary.com
>>> >> geardiary.com
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> Linux4christians mailing list
>>> >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>>> >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>>> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>>> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>>> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > Linux4christians mailing list
>>> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>>> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Joel McLaughlin
>>> Life in Ohio Podcast
>>> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>>> gorkon at gmail.com
>>> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>>> joel at geardiary.com
>>> geardiary.com
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Linux4christians mailing list
>>> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>>> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From parrisdc at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 12:51:05 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2010 12:51:05 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikxJkx+b_CEP7_VwFNKDDakG8aJ_fH3NzS2JGro@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=iaG7tUA=og5QPtwyPyaMjXQ3peCKLBM+Lunoi@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinMHQEnztfi-rSZiQm0K6PmsdkAkqg0Hcq2cEsP@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikxJkx+b_CEP7_VwFNKDDakG8aJ_fH3NzS2JGro@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=A8YNR1QAdBitNSKFW8kYBWT_WBLvev6UNxspw@mail.gmail.com>

Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).  I bought one of the Dell Inspirons with Ubuntu
last year.  :-)  I really like it, btw...  Just this silly issue...

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:47, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:

> What distro?
>
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:46 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I don't think it's the sound system - if I have sound in Chrome I should
> > have it in FF too... but the problem seems to be that FF isn't upgrading
> the
> > Flash installation properly.
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:45, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I do have pulseaudio installed.  In my latest effort, I removed the
> >> solitary adobe-flashplugin package, disabled Flashplugin 9.0 in FF, and
> then
> >> used the FF Addons to test and update Flash.  Still no joy - oddly, FF
> still
> >> shows I'm using Flash 9.0 - it's like it doesn't recognize the upgrade
> to
> >> 10.0.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:37, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> That's weird.  Do you have pulseaudio installed?  Did you remove it?
> >>> Sometimes if you have a app open that uses sound and it's pumping
> >>> direct through ALSA, it will take over the soundcard until the app is
> >>> closed.  Pulseaudio rectifys this, but some people have nothing but
> >>> issues with it so they go back to ALSA.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> > I've made no progress in the meantime.  I removed
> flash-plugin-nonfree,
> >>> > flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not swfdec-gnome), as
> >>> > well as
> >>> > Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted Firefox and still
> no
> >>> > sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't even exist.  I feel
> >>> > like
> >>> > there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash plugin...
> >>> >
> >>> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of late.  I interchange
> >>> >> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com>
> >>> >> > wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.  Also make sure you
> >>> >> >> aren't
> >>> >> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why Chrome would
> >>> >> > interfere?
> >>> >> > It didn't before.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > --
> >>> >> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> >>> >> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> >>> >> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> >>> >> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> >>> >> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > _______________________________________________
> >>> >> > Linux4christians mailing list
> >>> >> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> >>> >> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> >
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >>
> >>> >> --
> >>> >> Joel McLaughlin
> >>> >> Life in Ohio Podcast
> >>> >> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
> >>> >> gorkon at gmail.com
> >>> >> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
> >>> >> joel at geardiary.com
> >>> >> geardiary.com
> >>> >> _______________________________________________
> >>> >> Linux4christians mailing list
> >>> >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> >>> >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > --
> >>> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> >>> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> >>> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> >>> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> >>> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >>> >
> >>> > _______________________________________________
> >>> > Linux4christians mailing list
> >>> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> >>> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Joel McLaughlin
> >>> Life in Ohio Podcast
> >>> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
> >>> gorkon at gmail.com
> >>> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
> >>> joel at geardiary.com
> >>> geardiary.com
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Linux4christians mailing list
> >>> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> >>> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> >> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> >> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> >> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Linux4christians mailing list
> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Joel McLaughlin
> Life in Ohio Podcast
> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
> gorkon at gmail.com
> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
> joel at geardiary.com
> geardiary.com
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From fmiller at lightlink.com  Fri Oct  1 19:40:46 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 19:40:46 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>

On 10/01/2010 11:49 AM, Don Parris wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even though
> it continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.  I have FF 3.6.10
> running on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).
>
> Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some
> setting I can change to correct this?  I really don't care for Chrome,
> and yet have to use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.

Konq. will work fine. I haven't found a fix for Firefox yet either.

Fred

-- 
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it 
tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Fri Oct  1 20:07:52 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2010 20:07:52 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <4CA677D8.6010703@bibleseven.com>

Which version of Flash?

There have been some updates recently.

Flash is working fine in Seamonkey.

BTW:  You can try dumping Adobe altogether and load *libgnashplugin.so*

Gnash 0.8.8 shows up as Shockwave Flash 10.1r999

:-)

> > For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even
> > though it continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.  I have FF
> > 3.6.10 running on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).
> >
> > Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some
> > setting I can change to correct this?  I really don't care for
> > Chrome, and yet have to use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.
>
>  Konq. will work fine. I haven't found a fix for Firefox yet either.
>
>  Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making
>  it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Fri Oct  1 21:53:29 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 08:53:29 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> The logic you apply in your responses tends to be - sorry if this is too
> blunt - very foreign to us as native speakers of English. ?If English is
> your first language, may I suggest taking a course in reading comprehension?

The bible never written in English originally but eastern language. It
is probably western people could not understand Eastern behavior, not
the other way around.

> For example, if Peter's wife accompanied him for any reason, it would be
> because she was his wife. ?Surely she supported his efforts to spread the
> gospel, but she also surely supported him emotionally, sexually, etc. ?What
> our brothers are trying to help you understand is that, short of the Bible
> stating so explicitly,?there is no way whatsoever to arrive at any
> conclusion that suggests they did so. Examples:
> <> "Peter and his wife ceased sexual relations so they could be pure"
> <> "Peter left his wife to spread the good news abroad"
> <> "Peter never saw ('knew') his wife again"
>
> But there are no such statements that could lead us to your conclusion. ?The
> logic you apply - "Those apostle were not craving for sex and Peter's wife
> surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of God." - is
> completely foreign to me... and dare I say, to most of us on this list.

You are just guessing. Please read below article from a pastor (off
course not me, I am not a pastor). I don't understand why the people
here have difficulty in understanding such a simple matter as below.

DK

http://fatherjoe.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/was-peter-the-first-pope-married/

Was Peter, the First Pope, Married?
May 14, 2009 by Father Joe
You claim that Peter was the first Pope, and yet Scripture attests
that he was married. Since this great apostle could be married, why
not all bishops and priests?

Restricting ourselves to the Gospels, no doubt you are referring to
Peter?s mother-in-law. We read in Luke 4:38-39: ?After he left the
synagogue, he entered the house of Simon. Simon?s mother-in-law was
afflicted with a severe fever, and they interceded with him about her.
He stood over her, rebuked the fever, and it left her. She got up
immediately and waited on them.?

The Catholic Church does not deny that Peter was married. However,
note her general absence in the New Testament texts. We do not even
know her name.  We only encounter the mother-in-law, never his wife or
any children. Indeed, throughout the Gospels and the Acts of the
Apostles, references are made to Peter?s activities and travels; but,
only a vague intimation by Paul in 1 Cor. 9:5 that he had a right to
travel with his wife. If it were not for this mention in the epistle,
one might suppose that Peter was a widower. Could he have been married
more than once?  We just do not know.  Tradition suggests that his
wife was martyred.  It is peculiar that although the wife would
ordinarily have cared for the needs of guests, Peter had to rely upon
his wife?s mother.

However, even if she was still alive, she evidently assumed a
secondary role in his life behind his leadership of the infant Church.
 Indeed, her insignificance in the biblical witness would seem to
provide weight to the supporters of priestly celibacy.  Like Peter,
bishops and priests might do better to serve God?s people without the
distraction of wives and children.  Jesus gives his sheep to Peter.
Pastors similarly love Christ and care for their flocks.  This is the
emphasis of Catholic ministry, our family in faith.

From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 00:32:02 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:32:02 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTim=PKXYHOGfj2xNwTFdDLJyfDUY3SuK2uUuPczC@mail.gmail.com>

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:49 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even though it
> continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.? I have FF 3.6.10 running on
> Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).

I have similar problem before. What I remember is uninstall and purge
configuration file of flash plugin, and install it back. Uninstall
only didi not work. You could use synaptic and choose "mark for
complete removal" instead of "mark for removal".

DK

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct  2 01:22:42 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 01:22:42 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Numbers 14
Message-ID: <4CA6C1A2.1030002@bibleseven.com>


    Saturday


      Numbers 14


The Israelites Respond in Unbelief

14:1 Then all the community raised a loud cry, and the people wept that 
night. 14:2 And all the Israelites murmured against Moses and Aaron, and 
the whole congregation said to them, "If only we had died in the land of 
Egypt, or if only we had perished in this wilderness! 14:3 Why has the 
Lord brought us into this land only to be killed by the sword, that our 
wives and our children should become plunder? Wouldn't it be better for 
us to return to Egypt?" 14:4 So they said to one another, "Let's appoint 
a leader and return to Egypt."

14:5 Then Moses and Aaron fell down with their faces to the ground 
before the whole assembled community of the Israelites. 14:6 And Joshua 
son of Nun and Caleb son of Jephunneh, two of those who had investigated 
the land, tore their garments. 14:7 They said to the whole community of 
the Israelites, "The land we passed through to investigate is an 
exceedingly good land. 14:8 If the Lord delights in us, then he will 
bring us into this land and give it to us -- a land that is flowing with 
milk and honey. 14:9 Only do not rebel against the Lord, and do not fear 
the people of the land, for they are bread for us. Their protection has 
turned aside from them, but the Lord is with us. Do not fear them!"

14:10 However, the whole community threatened to stone them. But the 
glory of the Lord appeared to all the Israelites at the tent of meeting.

The Punishment from God

14:11 The Lord said to Moses, "How long will this people despise me, and 
how long will they not believe in me, in spite of the signs that I have 
done among them? 14:12 I will strike them with the pestilence, and I 
will disinherit them; I will make you into a nation that is greater and 
mightier than they!"

14:13 Moses said to the Lord, "When the Egyptians hear it -- for you 
brought up this people by your power from among them -- 14:14 then they 
will tell it to the inhabitants of this land. They have heard that you, 
Lord, are among this people, that you, Lord, are seen face to face, that 
your cloud stands over them, and that you go before them by day in a 
pillar of cloud and in a pillar of fire by night. 14:15 If you kill this 
entire people at once, then the nations that have heard of your fame 
will say, 14:16 'Because the Lord was not able to bring this people into 
the land that he swore to them, he killed them in the wilderness.' 14:17 
So now, let the power of my Lord be great, just as you have said, 14:18 
'The Lord is slow to anger and abounding in loyal love, forgiving 
iniquity and transgression, but by no means clearing the guilty, 
visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children until the third and 
fourth generations.' 14:19 Please forgive the iniquity of this people 
according to your great loyal love, just as you have forgiven this 
people from Egypt even until now."

14:20 Then the Lord said, "I have forgiven them as you asked. 14:21 But 
truly, as I live, all the earth will be filled with the glory of the 
Lord. 14:22 For all the people have seen my glory and my signs that I 
did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and yet have tempted me now these 
ten times, and have not obeyed me, 14:23 they will by no means see the 
land that I swore to their fathers, nor will any of them who despised me 
see it. 14:24 Only my servant Caleb, because he had a different spirit 
and has followed me fully -- I will bring him into the land where he had 
gone, and his descendants will possess it. 14:25 (Now the Amalekites and 
the Canaanites were living in the valleys.) Tomorrow, turn and journey 
into the wilderness by the way of the Red Sea."

14:26 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron: 14:27 "How long must I bear 
with this evil congregation that murmurs against me? I have heard the 
complaints of the Israelites that they murmured against me. 14:28 Say to 
them, 'As I live, says the Lord, I will surely do to you just what you 
have spoken in my hearing. 14:29 Your dead bodies will fall in this 
wilderness -- all those of you who were numbered, according to your full 
number, from twenty years old and upward, who have murmured against me. 
14:30 You will by no means enter into the land where I swore to settle 
you. The only exceptions are Caleb son of Jephunneh and Joshua son of 
Nun. 14:31 But I will bring in your little ones, whom you said would 
become victims of war, and they will enjoy the land that you have 
despised. 14:32 But as for you, your dead bodies will fall in this 
wilderness, 14:33 and your children will wander in the wilderness forty 
years and suffer for your unfaithfulness, until your dead bodies lie 
finished in the wilderness. 14:34 According to the number of the days 
you have investigated this land, forty days -- one day for a year -- you 
will suffer for your iniquities, forty years, and you will know what it 
means to thwart me. 14:35 I, the Lord, have said, "I will surely do so 
to all this evil congregation that has gathered together against me. In 
this wilderness they will be finished, and there they will die!"'"

14:36 The men whom Moses sent to investigate the land, who returned and 
made the whole community murmur against him by producing an evil report 
about the land, 14:37 those men who produced the evil report about the 
land, died by the plague before the Lord. 14:38 But Joshua son of Nun 
and Caleb son of Jephunneh, who were among the men who went to 
investigate the land, lived. 14:39 When Moses told these things to all 
the Israelites, the people mourned greatly.

14:40 And early in the morning they went up to the crest of the hill 
country, saying, "Here we are, and we will go up to the place that the 
Lord commanded, for we have sinned." 14:41 But Moses said, "Why are you 
now transgressing the commandment of the Lord? It will not succeed! 
14:42 Do not go up, for the Lord is not among you, and you will be 
defeated before your enemies. 14:43 For the Amalekites and the 
Canaanites are there before you, and you will fall by the sword. Because 
you have turned away from the Lord, the Lord will not be with you."

14:44 But they dared to go up to the crest of the hill, although neither 
the ark of the covenant of the Lord nor Moses departed from the camp. 
14:45 So the Amalekites and the Canaanites who lived in that hill 
country swooped down and attacked them as far as Hormah.



      Prayer


Lord, it is painful to read about Israel's rebellion as they stood at 
the threshold of the promised land. May I learn to never doubt Your 
promises and never to rebel against Your leading.


      Commentary


The tribal leaders whose fear had overcome their faith and whose spirit 
of rebellion overwhelmed their good sense turned the people against 
Moses and Aaron and God -- they became partners with the enemy in 
deception and rebellion.

They whined that they would fall in battle and that their children would 
become victims of the inhabitants.

Moses and Aaron and Caleb and Joshua pleaded with them to repent and to 
trust God, since He had repeatedly proved Himself able, but they instead 
threatened to stone them to death.

God intervened and just as He had used Pharaoh's words against him He 
used theirs against them -- declaring than none over the age of 20 would 
live to see the promised land and that their wives and children would be 
victims of their rebellion and suffer 40 years in the wilderness with 
them -- then the children would inherit the land of promise.

Only Joshua and Caleb would live to enter the promised land as they had 
trusted God.

The people mourned the news then some decided to enter the land, even 
though the Ark and Moses did not join them, and without the protection 
of God they were killed by the inhabitants.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

Just as Eve partnered with the serpent to deceive Adam into disbelieving 
and disobeying God, the tribal leaders likewise conspired in the 
spreading of the lie that God was not telling the truth and/or that He 
was not able to keep His promise.


        Discuss this:

Why would the people attack the residents of the promised land without 
the Ark or Moses, and therefore without the support of God?



        Reflect on this:

God knows our hearts, in those ways that we rebel we are chastised.


        Share this:

When have you mistrusted God and gone your own way only to discover that 
without His blessing your schemes were destroyed?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be harboring doubt due to 
fear as you see the world through the eyes of man and not the Lord God.


        Action:

Today I will confess my doubts and surrender to the Holy Spirit as He 
reminds me why I should trust God and in-specific how He has already 
gone ahead for me in the situation in which the enemy had me believing a 
lie. I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement with me for 
courage and faith and trust and wisdom.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________


Sunday's text will be: Numbers 15-16



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From tbutler at ofb.biz  Sat Oct  2 01:37:34 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 00:37:34 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>

> 
> The bible never written in English originally but eastern language. It
> is probably western people could not understand Eastern behavior, not
> the other way around.

	Actually, that is only partly true. The New Testament was written in Greek and Greek culture was the basis for what we now know as "Western Culture." The one thing we want to be very careful with is trying to import too much emphasis on the language as making it so people of certain cultures can or cannot understand.

	More importantly still, we need to ask a big question: how would the original audience have understood what the passage is saying. That is not necessarily the same thing you think when you hear it. 

	The thing is, though, the problem has nothing to do with behavior, but simple, direct statements. Paul's statements are quite clear: many (most?) should marry and those that do should not abstain from sexual relations for long periods. 

	"Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control." 

	He offers no exceptions to these statements.

> 
> You are just guessing. Please read below article from a pastor (off
> course not me, I am not a pastor). I don't understand why the people
> here have difficulty in understanding such a simple matter as below.


	The first thing you need to understand on this is that the many Christians around the world who are NOT Catholic (e.g. I think everyone you are talking to here) and non-Catholics typically disagree to greater or lesser extents with the Catholic emphasis on priestly celibacy.

	But, even amongst Catholics, there is little or no dispute that many early church priests were married, not just Peter. Given that priestly celibacy developed later and was only mandated about a thousand years after the beginning of the church, you need to understand there is real disagreement on that point.

	The bigger point, though, is nothing you quoted serves to demonstrate your point that sex can only be for reproduction. Even if we accept priestly celibacy, it does not suggest that non-priests should strive for something near celibacy.

	-Tim

From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Sat Oct  2 02:58:13 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 02:58:13 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinMHQEnztfi-rSZiQm0K6PmsdkAkqg0Hcq2cEsP@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinvxSjprRgUrdg30=bMo4_LZJ07wrYh+EgO08q2@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTiknz_zNO-69N9t9-yT5n_fodpo+q=kHpy9gyThQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimWUYXuKk37iXLp8zYS7p84GvBxnDMe8zngxhvv@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikuRVXpfZD88z4FVQKX9NbcTreBzdZv0znLtcvg@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinfLY947HYpjsFtypB1X4vV6fsJ16DB3NBvYJjt@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=iaG7tUA=og5QPtwyPyaMjXQ3peCKLBM+Lunoi@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinMHQEnztfi-rSZiQm0K6PmsdkAkqg0Hcq2cEsP@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1286002693.8966.14.camel@P-733-Lin>

  Don, try renaming the .mozilla directory while FF is closed and then
fire it up again, that should force a new config, and hopefully the
problem will cease, one user on this system had that problem and copying
over a good .mozilla to that profile fixed it.

On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 12:46 -0400, Don Parris wrote:
> I don't think it's the sound system - if I have sound in Chrome I
> should have it in FF too... but the problem seems to be that FF isn't
> upgrading the Flash installation properly.
> 
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:45, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>         I do have pulseaudio installed.  In my latest effort, I
>         removed the solitary adobe-flashplugin package, disabled
>         Flashplugin 9.0 in FF, and then used the FF Addons to test and
>         update Flash.  Still no joy - oddly, FF still shows I'm using
>         Flash 9.0 - it's like it doesn't recognize the upgrade to
>         10.0.
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:37, Joel Mclaughlin
>         <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 That's weird.  Do you have pulseaudio installed?  Did
>                 you remove it?
>                 Sometimes if you have a app open that uses sound and
>                 it's pumping
>                 direct through ALSA, it will take over the soundcard
>                 until the app is
>                 closed.  Pulseaudio rectifys this, but some people
>                 have nothing but
>                 issues with it so they go back to ALSA.
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Don Parris
>                 <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 > I've made no progress in the meantime.  I removed
>                 flash-plugin-nonfree,
>                 > flash-plugin-installer and swfdec-mozilla (but not
>                 swfdec-gnome), as well as
>                 > Chrome. I installed adobe-flashplugin. I restarted
>                 Firefox and still no
>                 > sound in Youtube... Hulu acts like Flash doesn't
>                 even exist.  I feel like
>                 > there must be a broken link between FF and the Flash
>                 plugin...
>                 >
>                 > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:17, Joel Mclaughlin
>                 <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 >>
>                 >> I don't know.  I haven't had that problem as of
>                 late.  I interchange
>                 >> with Firefox and Chrome and it works in both.
>                 >>
>                 >> Sounds like a regression bug somewhere.
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 12:06 PM, Don Parris
>                 <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 >> > On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 11:56, Joel Mclaughlin
>                 <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>                 >> >>
>                 >> >> Just removew chrome and the reinstall flash.
>                 Also make sure you aren't
>                 >> >> blocking flash with a Firefox extension.
>                 >> >
>                 >> > Thanks Joel, I'll give that a shot.  Any idea why
>                 Chrome would
>                 >> > interfere?
>                 >> > It didn't before.
>                 >> >
>                 >> >
>                 >> > --
>                 >> > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>                 >> > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software
>                 Advocate
>                 >> > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>                 >> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>                 >> > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>                 >> >
>                 >> > _______________________________________________
>                 >> > Linux4christians mailing list
>                 >> > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>                 >> >
>                 http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>                 >> >
>                 >> >
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >>
>                 >> --
>                 >> Joel McLaughlin
>                 >> Life in Ohio Podcast
>                 >> life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>                 >> gorkon at gmail.com
>                 >> http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>                 >> joel at geardiary.com
>                 >> geardiary.com
>                 >> _______________________________________________
>                 >> Linux4christians mailing list
>                 >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>                 >>
>                 http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>                 >
>                 >
>                 >
>                 > --
>                 > D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>                 > Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software
>                 Advocate
>                 > https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>                 > http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>                 > http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>                 >
>                 > _______________________________________________
>                 > Linux4christians mailing list
>                 > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>                 >
>                 http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>                 >
>                 >
>                 
>                 
>                 
>                 --
>                 Joel McLaughlin
>                 Life in Ohio Podcast
>                 life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
>                 gorkon at gmail.com
>                 http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
>                 joel at geardiary.com
>                 geardiary.com
>                 _______________________________________________
>                 Linux4christians mailing list
>                 Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
>                 http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>                 
>         
>         
>         
>         
>         -- 
>         
>         D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
>         Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
>         https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
>         http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
>         http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>         
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians



From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Sat Oct  2 03:03:26 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 03:03:26 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 19:40 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> On 10/01/2010 11:49 AM, Don Parris wrote: 
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even
> > though it continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.  I have FF
> > 3.6.10 running on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).
> > 
> > Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some
> > setting I can change to correct this?  I really don't care for
> > Chrome, and yet have to use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.
> 
> Konq. will work fine. I haven't found a fix for Firefox yet either. 
> 
> Fred

  I'm not having a problem here, and the unit I just shipped out the
door didn't either, both 1.04 LTS and same version of FF as Don has.


From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Sat Oct  2 03:08:37 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 03:08:37 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org> <4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1286003317.8966.21.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Sat, 2010-10-02 at 08:53 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The logic you apply in your responses tends to be - sorry if this is too
> > blunt - very foreign to us as native speakers of English.  If English is
> > your first language, may I suggest taking a course in reading comprehension?
> 
> The bible never written in English originally but eastern language. It
> is probably western people could not understand Eastern behavior, not
> the other way around.

  David?  European culture is derived from Mediterranean culture,
filtered through both Roman and Greek, the odds of absolute ignorance on
this topic are just about as good as for Evolution being true.  BTW
which "Eastern" languages were used in the Bible, I'm only familiar with
it being in Greek, Aramaic and Hebrew.


From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 07:53:50 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 18:53:50 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 12:37 PM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:
> ? ? ? ?The first thing you need to understand on this is that the many Christians around the world who are NOT Catholic (e.g. I think
>  everyone you are talking to here) and non-Catholics typically disagree to greater or lesser extents with the Catholic emphasis on
> priestly celibacy.
>
> ? ? ? ?But, even amongst Catholics, there is little or no dispute that many early church priests were married, not just Peter. Given that
> priestly celibacy developed later and was only mandated about a thousand years after the beginning of the church, you need to
> understand there is real disagreement on that point.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm

You in England cannot understand how completely engrained it is into
our people that a priest is a man who sacrifices himself for the sake
of his parishioners. He has no children of his own, in order that all
the children in the parish may be his children. His people know that
his small wants are supplied, and that he can devote all his time and
thought to them. They know that it is quite otherwise with the married
pastors of the Protestants. The pastor's income may be enough for
himself, but it is not enough for his wife and children also. In order
to maintain them he must take other work, literary or scholastic, only
a portion of his time can be given to his people; and they know that
when the interests of his family and those of his flock collide, his
family must come first and his flock second. In short, he has a
profession or trade, a Gewerbe, rather than a vocation; he has to earn
a livelihood. In almost all Catholic congregations, a priest who
married would be ruined; all his influence would be gone. The people
are not at all ready for so fundamental a change, and the
circumstances of the clergy do not admit of it. It is a fatal
resolution. (A. Plummer in "The Expositor", December, 1890, p. 470.)

> ? ? ? ?The bigger point, though, is nothing you quoted serves to demonstrate your point that sex can only be for reproduction. Even if
> we accept priestly celibacy, it does not suggest that non-priests should strive for something near celibacy.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03481a.htm

Although we do not find in the New Testament any indication of
celibacy being made compulsory either upon the Apostles or those whom
they ordained, we have ample warrant in the language of Our Saviour,
and of St. Paul for looking upon virginity as the higher call, and by
inference, as the condition befitting those who are set apart for the
work of the ministry. In Matthew 19:12, Christ clearly commends those
who, "for the sake of the kingdom of God", have held aloof from the
married state, though He adds: "he who can accept it, let him accept
it". St. Paul is even more explicit:

I would that all men were even as myself; but every one hath his
proper gift from God .... But I say to the unmarried and to the
widows, it is good for them if they so continue, even as I.

And further on:

But I would have you to be without solicitude. He that is without a
wife is solicitous for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may
please God. But he that is with a wife, is solicitous for the things
of the world, how he may please his wife: and he is divided. And the
unmarried woman and the virgin thinketh on the things of the Lord,
that she may be holy both in body and spirit. But she that is married
thinketh on the things of this world how she may please her husband.
And this I speak for your profit, not to cast a snare upon you, but
for that which is decent and which may give you power to attend upon
the Lord without impediment. (1 Corinthians 7:7-8 and 32-35)

DK

From tbutler at ofb.biz  Sat Oct  2 11:33:37 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 10:33:37 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>

> You in England cannot understand how completely engrained it is into
> our people that a priest is a man who sacrifices himself for the sake
> of his parishioners. He has no children of his own, in order that all
> the children in the parish may be his children.


I am not disagreeing with the notion that it is deeply ingrained in you. Quite the contrary. I am simply saying what Scripture says gives us plenty of room to disagree with you legitimately.

> I would that all men were even as myself; but every one hath his
> proper gift from God .... But I say to the unmarried and to the
> widows, it is good for them if they so continue, even as I.

Paul obviously valued celibacy. I am not questioning that, per se. What I am saying is that God has a very high view of marriage -- something that we can see from not only his institution of it before the Fall, but also the insistence of Jesus and Paul that divorce is breaking apart something that should not be.

Paul's high view of celibacy is tempered by his note in v. 6 that not everyone is gifted the same. Just as it would be absurd for the foot to say it has no use for the hand (look at 1 Cor. 12), so too, we run in danger when we suggest (essentially) all should be celibate or close to it. I have a high value of teaching and believe that is where my gifting is, but am not much of an evangelist at all. Now, if I say, everyone should teach -- forget evangelism, it is something lesser -- that would be sin. Both are good and cone from God.

To reject the gift of marriage God has created for some of his children is to reject the goodness that was Eden and to bring serious issues to books such as Song of Songs, the prohibition on divorce or, for that matter, the Lord's willingness to relate Christ's relationship to the church with that of marriage.

Moreover, this discussion is not so much about celibacy in general, as your assertion that married people should essentially be celibate. Nothing you quoted argued for that point. The question you need to ask yourself is this: not only can I somehow advocate what I am advocating by creatively using Scripture, but is that what the plain intent of Scripture is? I think you will find most people in Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox circles will disagree with you -- that should worry you. If you value God's Word highly, you need to set aside your own notions about things and try to hear what Scripture is saying directly.

Everyone on this list is telling you the same thing: the passages you quote don't support your assertion.  

Paul's interaction in 1 Cor. 7 seems to be mostly dealing with our fallenness. Because we are fallen, marriage can distract rather than draw us closer to God. But, Paul never endorses sinful behavior, so if he instructs that Christian spouses should have frequent sexual relations, it would not make sense to suggest that relationship is anything less than good and proper.

Let me leave you with this from 1 Timothy chapter 4:

------
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.
------

I hope this helps.

Tim

> 
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From proyectopuente at hotmail.com  Sat Oct  2 12:45:52 2010
From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 11:45:52 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
References: <75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS109FCB7AB4858194A804CDD96A0@phx.gbl>

I believe David has proven without a doubt that does not care what the Scriptures nor Church history has to say. His mind is made up.


__________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5497 (20101002) __________

ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com

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From l4c at thelinuxlink.net  Sat Oct  2 13:13:22 2010
From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (Lincoln Fessenden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 13:13:22 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS109FCB7AB4858194A804CDD96A0@phx.gbl>
References: <75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<SNT124-DS109FCB7AB4858194A804CDD96A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <4CA76832.1020205@thelinuxlink.net>

On 10/02/2010 12:45 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote:
> I believe David has proven without a doubt that does not care what the
> Scriptures nor Church history has to say. His mind is made up.

You never know.  Something or someone moved him to join this list!

Remember James 5:16.

-- 
-Linc Fessenden

In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...


From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 20:12:16 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 07:12:16 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 10:33 PM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:>
> I am not disagreeing with the notion that it is deeply ingrained in you.
> Quite the contrary. I am simply saying what Scripture says gives us plenty
> of room to disagree with you legitimately.

I can see there are many protestants, but the protestants forget the
bible was chosen and constructed by Catholics.

> To reject the gift of marriage God has created for some of his children is
> to reject the goodness that was Eden and to bring serious issues to books
> such as Song of Songs, the prohibition on divorce or, for that matter, the
> Lord's willingness to relate Christ's relationship to the church with that
> of marriage.

When did I say "reject the gift of marriage"?

> Moreover, this discussion is not so much about celibacy in general, as your
> assertion that married people should essentially be celibate. Nothing you
> quoted argued for that point.

Apparently you did not read properly. Marriage (according to Paul) is
to escape from fornication. If we marry, you don't sin. But celibacy
is better if we could control. Do you agree in Paul stand? OK, this
one first. I think I have to write step by step.
>  The question you need to ask yourself is this:
> not only can I somehow advocate what I am advocating by creatively using
> Scripture, but is that what the plain intent of Scripture is? I think you
> will find most people in Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox circles will
> disagree with you -- that should worry you. If you value God's Word highly,
> you need to set aside your own notions about things and try to hear what
> Scripture is saying directly.

I can see every one here rejecting this verse:

1Co 7:1  Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is
good for a man not to touch a woman.

> Everyone on this list is telling you the same thing: the passages you quote
> don't support your assertion.
> Paul's interaction in 1 Cor. 7 seems to be mostly dealing with our
> fallenness. Because we are fallen, marriage can distract rather than draw us
> closer to God. But, Paul never endorses sinful behavior, so if he instructs
> that Christian spouses should have frequent sexual relations, it would not
> make sense to suggest that relationship is anything less than good and
> proper.

How about the verse 1? Why skip the verse 1?

> Let me leave you with this from 1 Timothy chapter 4:
> ------
> 1Now?the Spirit expressly says that?in later times some will depart from the
> faith by devoting themselves to?deceitful spirits and teachings of
> demons,?2through the insincerity of?liars whose consciences are
> seared,?3?who forbid marriage and?require abstinence from foods?that God
> created?to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the
> truth.?4For?everything created by God is good, and?nothing is to be rejected
> if it is?received with thanksgiving,5for it is made holy?by the word of God
> and prayer.

I can see that. People forbid marriage of homosexual!! I never forbid
anybody to marry. I only quote Paul that celibacy is better that
marriage.

DK

From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Sat Oct  2 20:12:55 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 07:12:55 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <SNT124-DS109FCB7AB4858194A804CDD96A0@phx.gbl>
References: <75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<SNT124-DS109FCB7AB4858194A804CDD96A0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin_0S8DJb93dqOk4Tb6Oj3O4hxb7K_C3FE2bHOO@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 11:45 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.
<proyectopuente at hotmail.com> wrote:
> I believe David has proven without a doubt that does not care what the
> Scriptures nor Church history has to say. His mind is made up.

Or many be the other way around.

DK

From l4c at thelinuxlink.net  Sat Oct  2 20:36:35 2010
From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (Lincoln Fessenden)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 20:36:35 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>

On 10/2/10 8:12 PM, David Kuntadi wrote:
> I can see there are many protestants, but the protestants forget the
> bible was chosen and constructed by Catholics.

Sorry, David, the Bible was chosen by God.  The "Old Testament" comes 
form the Torah, which was written way before Catholicism rolled around. 
  As for formal recognition of the New Testament cannon, this website 
will help a bit with some of that:
http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-origin.htm
It's simple, verifiable, history, really.

As for all the Catholic vs. Protestant stuff, I prefer the label 
"Christian" myself.  That's who's dogma I am concerned with following...

-- 
-Linc Fessenden

In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...


From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct  2 21:38:14 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 21:38:14 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Numbers 15-16
Message-ID: <4CA7DE86.10302@bibleseven.com>


    Sunday


      Numbers 15-16


Numbers 15

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=15&mode=text 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=15&mode=text>


Numbers 16

The Rebellion of Korah

16:1 Now Korah son of Izhar, the son of Kohath, the son of Levi, and 
Dathan and Abiram, the sons of Eliab, and On son of Peleth, who were 
Reubenites, took men 16:2 and rebelled against Moses, along with some of 
the Israelites, 250 leaders of the community, chosen from the assembly, 
famous men. 16:3 And they assembled against Moses and Aaron, saying to 
them, "You take too much upon yourselves, seeing that the whole 
community is holy, every one of them, and the Lord is among them. Why 
then do you exalt yourselves above the community of the Lord?"

16:4 When Moses heard it he fell down with his face to the ground. 16:5 
Then he said to Korah and to all his company, "In the morning the Lord 
will make known who are his, and who is holy. He will cause that person 
to approach him; the person he has chosen he will cause to approach him. 
16:6 Do this, Korah, you and all your company: Take censers, 16:7 put 
fire in them, and set incense on them before the Lord tomorrow, and the 
man whom the Lord chooses will be holy. You take too much upon 
yourselves, you sons of Levi!" 16:8 Moses said to Korah, "Listen now, 
you sons of Levi! 16:9 Does it seem too small a thing to you that the 
God of Israel has separated you from the community of Israel to bring 
you near to himself, to perform the service of the tabernacle of the 
Lord, and to stand before the community to minister to them? 16:10 He 
has brought you near and all your brothers, the sons of Levi, with you. 
Do you now seek the priesthood also? 16:11 Therefore you and all your 
company have assembled together against the Lord! And Aaron -- what is 
he that you murmur against him?" 16:12 Then Moses summoned Dathan and 
Abiram, the sons of Eliab, but they said, "We will not come up. 16:13 Is 
it a small thing that you have brought us up out of the land that flows 
with milk and honey, to kill us in the wilderness? Now do you want to 
make yourself a prince over us? 16:14 Moreover, you have not brought us 
into a land that flows with milk and honey, nor given us an inheritance 
of fields and vineyards. Do you think you can blind these men? We will 
not come up."

16:15 Moses was very angry, and he said to the Lord, "Have no respect 
for their offering! I have not taken so much as one donkey from them, 
nor have I harmed any one of them!"

16:16 Then Moses said to Korah, "You and all your company present 
yourselves before the Lord -- you and they, and Aaron -- tomorrow. 16:17 
And each of you take his censer, put incense in it, and then each of you 
present his censer before the Lord: 250 censers, along with you, and 
Aaron -- each of you with his censer." 16:18 So everyone took his 
censer, put fire in it, and set incense on it, and stood at the entrance 
of the tent of meeting, with Moses and Aaron. 16:19 When Korah assembled 
the whole community against them at the entrance of the tent of meeting, 
then the glory of the Lord appeared to the whole community.

The Judgment on the Rebels

16:20 The Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron: 16:21 "Separate yourselves from 
among this community, that I may consume them in an instant." 16:22 Then 
they threw themselves down with their faces to the ground and said, "O 
God, the God of the spirits of all people, will you be angry with the 
whole community when only one man sins?"

16:23 So the Lord spoke to Moses: 16:24 "Tell the community: 'Get away 
from around the homes of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram.'" 16:25 Then Moses 
got up and went to Dathan and Abiram; and the elders of Israel went 
after him. 16:26 And he said to the community, "Move away from the tents 
of these wicked men, and do not touch anything they have, lest you be 
destroyed because of all their sins." 16:27 So they got away from the 
homes of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram on every side, and Dathan and Abiram 
came out and stationed themselves in the entrances of their tents with 
their wives, their children, and their toddlers. 16:28 Then Moses said, 
"This is how you will know that the Lord has sent me to do all these 
works, for I have not done them of my own will. 16:29 If these men die a 
natural death, or if they share the fate of all men, then the Lord has 
not sent me. 16:30 But if the Lord does something entirely new, and the 
earth opens its mouth and swallows them up along with all that they 
have, and they go down alive to the grave, then you will know that these 
men have despised the Lord!"

16:31 When he had finished speaking all these words, the ground that was 
under them split open, 16:32 and the earth opened its mouth and 
swallowed them, along with their households, and all Korah's men, and 
all their goods. 16:33 They and all that they had went down alive into 
the pit, and the earth closed over them. So they perished from among the 
community. 16:34 All the Israelites who were around them fled at their 
cry, for they said, "What if the earth swallows us too?" 16:35 Then a 
fire went out from the Lord and devoured the 250 men who offered incense.

The Atonement for the Rebellion

16:36 (17:1) The Lord spoke to Moses: 16:37 "Tell Eleazar son of Aaron 
the priest to pick up the censers out of the flame, for they are holy, 
and then scatter the coals of fire at a distance. 16:38 As for the 
censers of these men who sinned at the cost of their lives, they must be 
made into hammered sheets for covering the altar, because they presented 
them before the Lord and sanctified them. They will become a sign to the 
Israelites." 16:39 So Eleazar the priest took the bronze censers 
presented by those who had been burned up, and they were hammered out as 
a covering for the altar. 16:40 It was a memorial for the Israelites, 
that no outsider who is not a descendant of Aaron should approach to 
burn incense before the Lord, that he might not become like Korah and 
his company -- just as the Lord had spoken by the authority of Moses. 
16:41 But on the next day the whole community of Israelites murmured 
against Moses and Aaron, saying, "You have killed the Lord's people!" 
16:42 When the community assembled against Moses and Aaron, they turned 
toward the tent of meeting -- and the cloud covered it, and the glory of 
the Lord appeared. 16:43 Then Moses and Aaron stood before the tent of 
meeting.

16:44 The Lord spoke to Moses: 16:45 "Get away from this community, so 
that I can consume them in an instant!" But they threw themselves down 
with their faces to the ground. 16:46 Then Moses said to Aaron, "Take 
the censer, put burning coals from the altar in it, place incense on it, 
and go quickly into the assembly and make atonement for them, for wrath 
has gone out from the Lord -- the plague has begun!" 16:47 So Aaron did 
as Moses commanded and ran into the middle of the assembly, where the 
plague was just beginning among the people. So he placed incense on the 
coals and made atonement for the people. 16:48 He stood between the dead 
and the living, and the plague was stopped. 16:49 Now 14,700 people died 
in the plague, in addition to those who died in the event with Korah. 
16:50 Then Aaron returned to Moses at the entrance of the tent of 
meeting, and the plague was stopped.


      Prayer


Lord, the attacks on Moses and Aaron were precursors to the attack upon 
Jesus. May I not challenge the authority of Jesus and of the indwelling 
Holy Spirit though disobedience and disrespect for Your teaching.



      Commentary


The Lord God repeated some of the details of sacrificial practices to Moses.


Korath, of the tribe of Levi, among those who had been called to serve 
the Lord gathered 250 men and challenged the authority of Moses, to 
which Moses replied that they come before the Lord in the morning to see 
whom the Lord selected to come forward near to Him.

They accused Moses and Aaron of taking too much authority, saying that 
"You take too much upon yourself ...", and Moses turned the same phrase 
back on them. They took their censors of incense and waved them before 
the Lord.

Moses was angry and asked the Lord to intervene, specifically uttering 
an 'imprecatory prayer' against them, that the Lord not accept their 
offering and therefore withhold forgiveness and instead cause them to 
receive the full punishment of the law for their sin.

God separated-out the tents of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram and Moses 
declared that his authority from God would be known because those who 
challenged him would die a sudden and unnatural death. God opened the 
ground and it swallowed them and then He sent flames like fire out to 
kill all of the 250 who had rebelled.

The brass censors of the men were hammered into a sheet which was 
thereafter used to cover the altar as a reminder to the people.

But the people accused Moses of killing the men and spoke 
disrespectfully and rebelliously against Moses and Aaron. God instructed 
Moses to move away from the people so that He could strike them all dead.

Moses sent Aaron to make atonement for them while he pleaded with the 
Lord, as a plague from the Lord had already begun. 14,700 people died 
before Aaron could place the incense upon the coals in their midst.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

Once again, despite the impossible-to-miss anointing of the Lord upon 
Moses and the clear calling of Aaron, the people rebelled, first a small 
group than the whole community.


        Discuss this:

How many times and in how many ways did the Lord God have to affirm His 
anointing of Moses as their human emissary-leader for the people to 
accept that?


        Reflect on this:

The punishment of God matched the rebellion, first directed at the 250 
and their leaders, then at the congregation as a whole (the plague).


        Share this:

When have you observed people in rebellion against legitimate authority 
because they did not want to hear the truth they were being told and/or 
they simply did not want to submit to authority.



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you have rebelled against 
legitimate authority because the consequences of your choices were being 
addressed? (Perhaps it was (is) a boss, a business, a law enforcement 
person, a parent, a politician, a regulator, a teacher.)



        Action:

Today I will confess my sin and repent. I will humbly submit to the 
legitimate authority who is bringing chastisement for my sin. Perhaps a 
bosses sanctions for carelessness or laziness, a business assessing a 
fine or penalty for some element of a contract, a law enforcement 
officer enforcing the law (e.g. a traffic offense), a parent punishing a 
child for disrespect or disobedience, a politician challenging those who 
misuse power for selfish ends, a regulator enforcing rules, or a teacher 
punishing cheating or misbehavior or sloth.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Monday's text will be:


      Numbers 17-19



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From fmiller at lightlink.com  Sat Oct  2 23:41:39 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 23:41:39 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>
	<1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
Message-ID: <4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>

On 10/02/2010 03:03 AM, Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 19:40 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>   
>> On 10/01/2010 11:49 AM, Don Parris wrote: 
>>     
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even
>>> though it continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.  I have FF
>>> 3.6.10 running on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).
>>>
>>> Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some
>>> setting I can change to correct this?  I really don't care for
>>> Chrome, and yet have to use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.
>>>       
>> Konq. will work fine. I haven't found a fix for Firefox yet either. 
>>
>> Fred
>>     
>   I'm not having a problem here, and the unit I just shipped out the
> door didn't either, both 1.04 LTS and same version of FF as Don has.
>   

I killed .mozilla dir and FF dies......something strange going on.

Fred

-- 
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it 
tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown

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From tbutler at ofb.biz  Sat Oct  2 23:49:36 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2010 22:49:36 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C09F2D95-FFB7-4EBA-8DA2-F557A9DEC143@ofb.biz>

> 
> I can see there are many protestants, but the protestants forget the
> bible was chosen and constructed by Catholics.

	Actually, the Bible was chosen by the whole church. A significant part of the influencers of the canon are those now known as Orthodox, because most of the big decisions happened in the East, not the West. Depending on your perspective, the Catholics may be the ones who broke off...

	(I think all of this is essentially useless though: the big point is that God's Spirit guided the decisions and that is valid as a Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox Christian.)


>> To reject the gift of marriage God has created for some of his children is
>> to reject the goodness that was Eden and to bring serious issues to books
>> such as Song of Songs, the prohibition on divorce or, for that matter, the
>> Lord's willingness to relate Christ's relationship to the church with that
>> of marriage.
> 
> When did I say "reject the gift of marriage"?

	Well, when you suggest that marriage and sincere service are so mutually exclusive that Peter must have become celibate, even though there is not a shred of evidence in the text to support the assertion (and lacking evidence, it would make more sense to assume he was a normal husband than not), you've made marriage and pretty undesirable estate. 

> 
>> Moreover, this discussion is not so much about celibacy in general, as your
>> assertion that married people should essentially be celibate. Nothing you
>> quoted argued for that point.
> 
> Apparently you did not read properly. Marriage (according to Paul) is
> to escape from fornication. If we marry, you don't sin. But celibacy
> is better if we could control. Do you agree in Paul stand? OK, this
> one first. I think I have to write step by step.

	Not precisely. Paul says that is a reason for marriage, but he does not say that is the sum total purpose of marriage. These are different things.

> 
> I can see every one here rejecting this verse:
> 
> 1Co 7:1  Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is
> good for a man not to touch a woman.

	Not at all. As I said, clearly celibacy is a gift. But, this does not mean marriage is something that is only to be held at arm's length where one is virtually celibate. You see what I mean?

> 
>> Everyone on this list is telling you the same thing: the passages you quote
>> don't support your assertion.
>> Paul's interaction in 1 Cor. 7 seems to be mostly dealing with our
>> fallenness. Because we are fallen, marriage can distract rather than draw us
>> closer to God. But, Paul never endorses sinful behavior, so if he instructs
>> that Christian spouses should have frequent sexual relations, it would not
>> make sense to suggest that relationship is anything less than good and
>> proper.
> 
> How about the verse 1? Why skip the verse 1?

	Reread my last paragraph.

> 
> I can see that. People forbid marriage of homosexual!! I never forbid
> anybody to marry. I only quote Paul that celibacy is better that
> marriage.

	See, that's where you aren't making sense. Heterosexual marriage is never declared a sin in Scripture. To the contrary, God declared it quite good in Genesis 2. Homosexual activity is always declared a sin in Scripture. To relate the two is to reject the clear testimony of Scripture.

	-Tim

From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Sat Oct  2 23:58:59 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2010 23:58:59 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com> <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Sat, 2010-10-02 at 23:41 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> On 10/02/2010 03:03 AM, Mike McMullin wrote: 
> > On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 19:40 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> >   
> > > On 10/01/2010 11:49 AM, Don Parris wrote: 
> > >     
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > 
> > > > For some strange reason, Flash stopped working on Firefox, even
> > > > though it continues to work just fine in Google Chrome.  I have FF
> > > > 3.6.10 running on Ubuntu 10.04 LTS (Dell).
> > > > 
> > > > Short of uninstalling Firefox and re-installing it, is there some
> > > > setting I can change to correct this?  I really don't care for
> > > > Chrome, and yet have to use it to view anything on Youtube, etc.
> > > >       
> > > Konq. will work fine. I haven't found a fix for Firefox yet either. 
> > > 
> > > Fred
> > >     
> > I'm not having a problem here, and the unit I just shipped out the
> > door didn't either, both 1.04 LTS and same version of FF as Don has.
> >   
> 
> I killed .mozilla dir and FF dies......something strange going on.

  I'd seriously like to know why I don't have the problems that some
folks do, and have problems that most folks don't.  For both of you I'd
suggest creating a new user, log into that account and try FF, if it
works your individual configs are busted, if it doesn't then the install
has a problem.


From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sun Oct  3 15:08:40 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 15:08:40 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Numbers 17-19
Message-ID: <4CA8D4B8.507@bibleseven.com>


    Monday


      Numbers 17-19


The Budding of Aaron's Staff

17:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 17:2 "Speak to the Israelites, and receive 
from them a staff from each tribe, one from every tribal leader, twelve 
staffs; you must write each man's name on his staff. 17:3 You must write 
Aaron's name on the staff of Levi; for one staff is for the head of 
every tribe. 17:4 You must place them in the tent of meeting before the 
ark of the covenant where I meet with you. 17:5 And the staff of the man 
whom I choose will blossom; so I will rid myself of the complaints of 
the Israelites, which they murmur against you."

17:6 So Moses spoke to the Israelites, and each of their leaders gave 
him a staff, one for each leader, according to their tribes -- twelve 
staffs; the staff of Aaron was among their staffs. 17:7 Then Moses 
placed the staffs before the Lord in the tent of the testimony.

17:8 On the next day Moses went into the tent of the testimony -- and 
the staff of Aaron for the house of Levi had sprouted, and brought forth 
buds, and produced blossoms, and yielded almonds! 17:9 So Moses brought 
out all the staffs from before the Lord to all the Israelites. They 
looked at them, and each man took his staff.

The Memorial

17:10 The Lord said to Moses, "Bring Aaron's staff back before the 
testimony to be preserved for a sign to the rebels, so that you may 
bring their murmurings to an end before me, that they will not die." 
17:11 So Moses did as the Lord commanded him -- this is what he did.

17:12 The Israelites said to Moses, "We are bound to die! We perish, we 
all perish! 17:13 (17:28) Anyone who even comes close to the tabernacle 
of the Lord will die! Are we all to die?"

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=18 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=18>

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=19 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=19>



      Prayer


Lord, You choose leaders and so long as they obey You we are to respect 
them. May I be humble before those whom You call to leadership.


      Commentary


The Lord God instructed Moses to require each tribal leader to present a 
staff at the tabernacle.

Each staff was to be labeled with the name of the elder. Aaron's staff 
was to be among them.


The staffs were presented to the Lord at the entrance to the tent of 
testimony. God said that He would cause Aaron's staff to bud so that the 
elders would clearly know who was His chosen priest.

God caused the staff of Aaron to bud and produce almonds while the 
others remained dead. The elder's staffs were returned to them after 
they saw all of them.

Aaron's staff, at the direction of God, was returned to the tent of 
testimony as a remembrance of God's miracle and to finally quell any 
doubts about the divine calling of Moses and Aaron so that He would not 
have to strike them down.

The Israelites cried in fear that they could not approach God's 
tabernacle of presence without dying. Aaron, his sons, and the tribe of 
Levi were charged with representation of the people.

God provided some additional details for the ordinances and sacrifices.



      Interaction



        Consider this:

God again clarified His calling of Aaron and Moses using a clear 
symbolic gesture.


        Discuss this:

Why would the people be afraid of death because they could not approach 
the tabernacle?



        Reflect on this:

In an agricultural society the /life/ in Aaron's staff and /death/ in 
the staff's of the elders was a powerful imagery.


        Share this:

When have you observed a challenge to leadership where God powerfully 
intervened to affirm His leader?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you have authority, and 
responsibility.



        Action:

Today I will accept the Lord's calling in my life to lead; it may be as 
a coach, a counselor, a mentor, a parent, a teacher, or some other role, 
but I will speak His truth in love but without fear. If my leadership is 
challenged I will prayerfully request the the Lord intervene. I will 
share my call to leadership with a fellow believer and ask them to pray 
in-agreement for confirmation and protection.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Tuesday's text will be:


      Numbers 20

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From fmiller at lightlink.com  Sun Oct  3 19:16:46 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2010 19:16:46 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <C09F2D95-FFB7-4EBA-8DA2-F557A9DEC143@ofb.biz>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
	<C09F2D95-FFB7-4EBA-8DA2-F557A9DEC143@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <4CA90EDE.6060605@lightlink.com>

On 10/02/2010 11:49 PM, Timothy Butler wrote:
>> > I can see there are many protestants, but the protestants forget the
>> > bible was chosen and constructed by Catholics.
>>     
> 	Actually, the Bible was chosen by the whole church. A significant part of the influencers of the canon are those now known as Orthodox, because most of the big decisions happened in the East, not the West. Depending on your perspective, the Catholics may be the ones who broke off...
>
> 	(I think all of this is essentially useless though: the big point is that God's Spirit guided the decisions and that is valid as a Protestant, Catholic or Orthodox Christian.)
>
>
>   

QUITE right!!

Fred

-- 
"Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it 
tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown

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From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 22:55:24 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 09:55:24 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Lincoln Fessenden <l4c at thelinuxlink.net> wrote:>
> Sorry, David, the Bible was chosen by God. ?The "Old Testament" comes form
> the Torah, which was written way before Catholicism rolled around. ?As for
> formal recognition of the New Testament cannon, this website will help a bit
> with some of that:
> http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-origin.htm
> It's simple, verifiable, history, really.

If chosen by God, then why the bible does not have scientific accuracy
or complete historical precision:

?We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or
complete historical precision,?

Please article below.

DK

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece

Catholic Church no longer swears by truth of the Bible
By Ruth Gledhill, Religion Correspondent

THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching
document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not
actually true.

The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their
five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of
scripture, that they should not expect ?total accuracy? from the
Bible.

?We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or
complete historical precision,? they say in The Gift of Scripture.

The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the
religious Right, in particular in the US.

Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of
creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin?s theory of
evolution in schools, believing ?intelligent design? to be an equally
plausible theory of how the world began.

But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at
times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that
this country?s Catholic bishops insist cannot be ?historical?. At
most, they say, they may contain ?historical traces?.

The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th
century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a
near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by
advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century
ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted
historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the
Bible.

In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical
scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that
it is ?God?s word expressed in human language? and that proper
acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human
dimensions.

They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways ?appropriate to
changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries?.

The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say,
but continue: ?We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in
other, secular matters.?

They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its ?intransigent
intolerance? and to warn of ?significant dangers? involved in a
fundamentalist approach.

?Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation
or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and
even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence
against others.?

Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, ?His blood be on
us and on our children?, a passage used to justify centuries of
anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be
used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt.
Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the
bishops say they have had ?tragic consequences? in encouraging hatred
and persecution. ?The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels
between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in
relations between Jews and Christians.?

As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite
the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation
legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The
bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was
to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as
historical writing.

Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the
last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the
work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast
of Christ the Lamb.

The bishops say: ?Such symbolic language must be respected for what it
is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to
discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how
many will be saved and about when the end will come.?

In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior
Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O?Connor, Archbishop of
Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O?Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew?s and
Edinburgh, explain its context.

They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has
real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.

The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary
celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document
explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years,
Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. ?We
have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and
ever new.?

A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to
every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked
his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear
word. The Breakout Trust raised ?200,000 to make the 30-minute
animated film, It?s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said:
?There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them
go to church regularly.

That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic
Christian teaching.?

From parrisdc at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 23:10:14 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 23:10:14 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimtu+tz4nCLATadVgGjAiPD6YiHiNK6N8Da_Rc7@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikCxhmGY=hukCXLTSd5CUVTc+BuTzkQYZUkiOKD@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA1FB98.3070807@staggs.net>
	<AANLkTikbawVmOghJk8Q6vb8Oy8_E1AvcnhmuCrygRGAZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxk62xp50yz.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<AANLkTi=3ukRAEYP+Vq37TLs+Es0x0pPSiWu112BqnKhN@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikccF9U8ZY26ti72HBmz8VdFHGF3XTipr0hgT2_@mail.gmail.com>

Apologies up front for my slow response - was busy this weekend... :-)

On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 21:53, David Kuntadi <d.kuntadi at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 1, 2010 at 10:42 PM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > The logic you apply in your responses tends to be - sorry if this is too
> > blunt - very foreign to us as native speakers of English.  If English is
> > your first language, may I suggest taking a course in reading
> comprehension?
>
> The bible never written in English originally but eastern language. It
> is probably western people could not understand Eastern behavior, not
> the other way around.
>
> David, I was more concerned about your logic, rather than the language of
the Bible.  I actually keep a Greek reference handy for when I am preparing
my sermons.  I think Tim has probably studied Greek more in-depth than I
have, but I nevertheless understand quite well the mixture of Greek, Hebrew
and Aramaic used throughout the Old and New Testaments.



> > For example, if Peter's wife accompanied him for any reason, it would be
> > because she was his wife.  Surely she supported his efforts to spread the
> > gospel, but she also surely supported him emotionally, sexually, etc.
>  What
> > our brothers are trying to help you understand is that, short of the
> Bible
> > stating so explicitly, there is no way whatsoever to arrive at any
> > conclusion that suggests they did so. Examples:
> > <> "Peter and his wife ceased sexual relations so they could be pure"
> > <> "Peter left his wife to spread the good news abroad"
> > <> "Peter never saw ('knew') his wife again"
> >
> > But there are no such statements that could lead us to your conclusion.
>  The
> > logic you apply - "Those apostle were not craving for sex and Peter's
> wife
> > surely not traveling for sex purpose, but for the Word of God." - is
> > completely foreign to me... and dare I say, to most of us on this list.
>
> You are just guessing. Please read below article from a pastor (off
> course not me, I am not a pastor). I don't understand why the people
> here have difficulty in understanding such a simple matter as below.
>
> Just guessing???  This is precisely why I wonder about your logic!  I am a
pastor, and what Father Joe wrote (in the article you linked to)
is precisely what you call guessing.

The one thing we can genuinely suppose is that the sex life of the Apostles
was not the most crucial issue in any of the new testament texts.  Only a
few women were named or even mentioned at all - apart from Mary and Martha,
there is Priscilla and a few others.  Yet, Father Joe clearly makes a wild
guess that because Peter's wife is so insignificant, Peter must have been
celibate????  You gotta be kidding!!!

We do know that Paul instructed Timothy - in clear and certain terms - that
an elder (which is generally considered to be a pastor) should be the
husband of one wife.  How does the insignificance of Peter's wife outweigh
the clear instruction of Paul in concluding that an elder/pastor should be
celibate?  Based on other things Paul wrote, we cannot argue that an elder
must necessarily be married, but neither can we argue that he must be
celibate.

Whether or not Peter enjoyed sex with his wife apparently wasn't important
enough to mention in detail.  But the fact that she may have traveled with
him leads me to believe that they probably enjoyed such intimacy, even if it
took a back seat to the Gospel.  Sex would not have been her primary purpose
for traveling, but neither would it have *necessarily* ceased.

Again, short of some textual reference to Peter ceasing sexual relations
with his wife, I am unwilling to *guess* that he actually did so.  That is
making assumptions about the text that are not necessarily intended by any
of the authors.

Blessings,
Don
-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Sun Oct  3 23:15:59 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 23:15:59 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com> <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>
	<1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinYxjP9PpUDe=Q7dDuhSOGRD1tWFV6=ZeEmFrXK@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 23:58, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:

> On Sat, 2010-10-02 at 23:41 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > On 10/02/2010 03:03 AM, Mike McMullin wrote:
> > > On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 19:40 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 10/01/2010 11:49 AM, Don Parris wrote:
> > > >
>
<SNIP>

> > > >
> > > > Fred
> > > >
> > > I'm not having a problem here, and the unit I just shipped out the
> > > door didn't either, both 1.04 LTS and same version of FF as Don has.
> > >
> >
> > I killed .mozilla dir and FF dies......something strange going on.
>
>   I'd seriously like to know why I don't have the problems that some
> folks do, and have problems that most folks don't.  For both of you I'd
> suggest creating a new user, log into that account and try FF, if it
> works your individual configs are busted, if it doesn't then the install
> has a problem.
>
> I'll try these out, but it'll likely be late tomorrow or even Tuesday
before I get the chance.  I appreciate the additional responses.

Blessings,
Don
-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From tbutler at ofb.biz  Mon Oct  4 00:10:56 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2010 23:10:56 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkd3rxfea3.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<SNT124-DS16F3BF88171088E3C411D7D9670@phx.gbl>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
	<AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1D7086F4-9E4E-4DFF-9516-32CBE45C03F4@ofb.biz>



On Oct 3, 2010, at 9:55 PM, David Kuntadi <d.kuntadi at gmail.com> wrote:

> If chosen by God, then why the bible does not have scientific accuracy
> or complete historical precision:
> 
> ?We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or
> complete historical precision,?
> 
> Please article below.

David, so you are saying that if some bishops, speaking fallibly, say that the Bible has errors, you'll accept that without question? Why trust the bishops more than Scripture itself or the testimony of the church, for that matter?
> 


Of course Scripture does not provide the level of Scientific precision we might look for today. But that is because it is not a science text, not because it has errors. I am convinced you will not find a single error in it.

Of course, if there are errors, you've undermined your other arguments, which you've claimed came from Scripture.

Tim

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Mon Oct  4 20:12:21 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 20:12:21 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Numbers 20
Message-ID: <4CAA6D65.8090902@bibleseven.com>


    Tuesday


      Numbers 20


The Israelites Complain Again

20:1 Then the entire community of Israel entered the wilderness of Zin 
in the first month, and the people stayed in Kadesh. Miriam died and was 
buried there.

20:2 And there was no water for the community, and so they gathered 
themselves together against Moses and Aaron. 20:3 The people contended 
with Moses, saying, "If only we had died when our brothers died before 
the Lord! 20:4 Why have you brought up the Lord's community into this 
wilderness? So that we and our cattle should die here? 20:5 Why have you 
brought us up from Egypt only to bring us to this dreadful place? It is 
no place for grain, or figs, or vines, or pomegranates; nor is there any 
water to drink!"

Moses Responds

20:6 So Moses and Aaron went from the presence of the assembly to the 
entrance to the tent of meeting. They then threw themselves down with 
their faces to the ground, and the glory of the Lord appeared to them. 
20:7 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 20:8 "Take the staff and assemble the 
community, you and Aaron your brother, and then speak to the rock before 
their eyes. It will pour forth its water, and you will bring water out 
of the rock for them, and so you will give the community and their 
beasts water to drink."

20:9 So Moses took the staff from before the Lord, just as he commanded 
him. 20:10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the community together in front 
of the rock, and he said to them, "Listen, you rebels, must we bring 
water out of this rock for you?" 20:11 Then Moses raised his hand, and 
struck the rock twice with his staff. And water came out abundantly. So 
the community drank, and their beasts drank too.

The Lord's Judgment

20:12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not trust 
me enough to show me as holy before the Israelites, therefore you will 
not bring this community into the land I have given them."

20:13 These are the waters of Meribah, because the Israelites contended 
with the Lord, and his holiness was maintained among them.

Rejection by the Edomites

20:14 Moses sent messengers from Kadesh to the king of Edom: "Thus says 
your brother Israel: 'You know all the hardships we have experienced, 
20:15 how our ancestors went down into Egypt, and we lived in Egypt a 
long time, and the Egyptians treated us and our ancestors badly. 20:16 
So when we cried to the Lord, he heard our voice and sent a messenger, 
and has brought us up out of Egypt. Now we are here in Kadesh, a town on 
the edge of your country. 20:17 Please let us pass through your country. 
We will not pass through the fields or through the vineyards, nor will 
we drink water from any well. We will go by the King's Highway; we will 
not turn to the right or the left until we have passed through your 
region.'"

20:18 But Edom said to him, "You will not pass through me, or I will 
come out against you with the sword." 20:19 Then the Israelites said to 
him, "We will go along the highway, and if we or our cattle drink any of 
your water, we will pay for it. We will only pass through on our feet, 
without doing anything else."

20:20 But he said, "You may not pass through." Then Edom came out 
against them with a large and powerful force. 20:21 So Edom refused to 
give Israel passage through his border; therefore Israel turned away 
from him.

Aaron's Death

20:22 So the entire company of Israelites traveled from Kadesh and came 
to Mount Hor. 20:23 And the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron in Mount Hor, 
by the border of the land of Edom. He said: 20:24 "Aaron will be 
gathered to his ancestors, for he will not enter into the land I have 
given to the Israelites because both of you rebelled against my word at 
the waters of Meribah. 20:25 Take Aaron and Eleazar his son, and bring 
them up on Mount Hor. 20:26 Remove Aaron's priestly garments and put 
them on Eleazar his son, and Aaron will be gathered to his ancestors and 
will die there."

20:27 So Moses did as the Lord commanded; and they went up Mount Hor in 
the sight of the whole community. 20:28 And Moses removed Aaron's 
garments and put them on his son Eleazar. So Aaron died there on the top 
of the mountain. And Moses and Eleazar came down from the mountain. 
20:29 When all the community saw that Aaron was dead, the whole house of 
Israel mourned for Aaron thirty days.



      Prayer


Lord, please find me obedient in action and in teaching, adding nothing 
to Your Word.



      Commentary


There is again a shortage of water and the people complain to Moses, 
again whining that he and Aaron have led them astray.


Moses and Aaron went to the Lord God and He instructed them to come 
before the nearby rock with the staff and to speak and water would come out.


Moses gathered the people and more than speak to the rock he asked the 
people if he and Aaron were to bring water from the rock and then struck 
it twice and water did come out -- sufficient for the people and their 
animals.

Because Moses made it about himself, and Aaron, God told him that he 
(Moses) would not be the one to lead His/his people into the promised 
land -- once the 40 years in the wilderness had passed.

Moses asked the king of the Edomites to allow them to cross their 
territory, and even offered to pay for any resources -- e.g. water -- 
that they consumed but he refused and brought a large army forward to 
keep them out, so they traveled a different route and stopped at Mount Hor.

Aaron's robes and responsibilities were transferred to his son and God 
called Aaron home.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

 From his days as a young man in Egypt Moses had evidenced an impetuous 
nature. When Moses did not follow God's instruction but made it appear 
that it was he and Aaron who brought the water from the rock, because he 
was angry, he was disobedient -- and as God's anointed he was held to a 
high standard.


        Discuss this:

Why did the people keep challenging Moses and question the wisdom of the 
exodus from slavery in Egypt every time things got uncomfortable?


        Reflect on this:

God could have moved the Edomites but chose not to since the people 
continued to be rebellious.


        Share this:

When have you done or said something to cause the appearance that you 
had more authority and/or power than you actually did?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be trading convenience for 
righteousness and comfort for obedience.



        Action:

Today I will ask a fellow believer to prayerfully assist me in an 
inventory of my walk with Christ. Where I find places that I make 
decisions about gathering together with believers, about service to 
others, about caring for other believers, about sharing the resources He 
has given me, and about telling His story to those who are 
considering-Christ based on my comfort and convenience -- turning away 
or even just not showing up -- and I will repent of that. I agree to 
reshape my priorities based upon God's perspective and priorities.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Wednesday's text will be:


      Numbers 21



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From hpp3 at lavabit.com  Mon Oct  4 23:32:33 2010
From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 20:32:33 -0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
	<AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CAA9C51.80400@lavabit.com>

  On 10/03/2010 07:55 PM, David Kuntadi wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Lincoln Fessenden<l4c at thelinuxlink.net>  wrote:>
>> Sorry, David, the Bible was chosen by God.  The "Old Testament" comes form
>> the Torah, which was written way before Catholicism rolled around.  As for
>> formal recognition of the New Testament cannon, this website will help a bit
>> with some of that:
>> http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-origin.htm
>> It's simple, verifiable, history, really.
> If chosen by God, then why the bible does not have scientific accuracy
> or complete historical precision:
>
> ?We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or
> complete historical precision,?
>
> Please article below.
>
> DK
>
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article574768.ece
 >snip<

OK, so this then is the bottom line.
To reject the bible as authoritative in matters of history is at the 
very least calling Jesus a liar.
You understand what that means, don't you?

Jesus believed in Man existing "from the beginning" (Matthew 19:4-6, 
Mark 10:6-9) and Jesus believed in a global flood (Matthew 24:37-39, 
Luke 17:26-27).
If you don't believe what Jesus himself said about the Word He inspired, 
picking and choosing those parts of the Bible you deem to be true, then 
you are placing yourself above God as God has placed his Word above 
himself (Psalms 138:2).
Do you remember what happened to the LAST guy who did that (Isaiah 
14:12-14)?

Oh, wait, I remember now, from the last discussion you started;
Lucifer was just a star, creation was just a myth, the flood of Noah's 
day was just a local sewer backup or something and besides... various 
parts and pieces of the book that claims to be authoritative on such 
matters "might not be true", right?

So we can just ignore all that and get on with our lives feeling good 
about ourselves as we read from a Book that "might not be true", which 
is about a God that may or may not exist ('cause the book that describes 
him "might not be true") and make prayers, praises and supplications to 
Him (if he exists, because his book "might not be true") that He may or 
may not be hearing.

I'm sorry David, your argument is over the line.
Your denomination has gone over the line.
YOU are over the line.
Saying the Bible and any arbitrary part "might not be true" not only 
gives you a way out of any admonition you have been given so far by 
almost everyone on this list, but also erases any foundation and basis 
you might have to argue from it and precludes you from any right to the 
blessings, promises, admonitions, and gifts it promises to those who DO 
believe it and that goes for any individual or group who believes (or 
doesn't, apparently) the same.

On the authority of the Word as it is written, from the God who inspired 
it, the prophets who confirmed it, and His son who fulfilled it, I can 
testify that you are WRONG.

Finally, in obedience to Paul's admonition in Romans 16:17-19, I will 
not read any further of this discussion.
You have made your position clear, and I have made mine.

Trembling before God,
-Eddy
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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Mon Oct  4 23:51:02 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2010 23:51:02 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
	<AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com>

I wrote this last evening and decided to sleep and pray on it.
Eddy's post has persuaded me that it is correct that I post it.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think we are done here.

DK has rejected every effort to lead him to truth - he appears to
have a hardened-heart against truth and is partnering with the enemy
to waste our time.

We appear to be dealing with an unteachable spirit, one whose
entire effort has been in opposition to the Christian faith and the
integrity of the Word of God.

I will pray for DK but will treat him as one whom Paul instructed
be placed outside of the family to be sifted until he ceases his
attacks upon God and the Word of God.

In Him alone we trust,

David

> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Lincoln Fessenden<l4c at thelinuxlink.net>  wrote:>
>    
>> Sorry, David, the Bible was chosen by God.  The "Old Testament" comes form
>> the Torah, which was written way before Catholicism rolled around.  As for
>> formal recognition of the New Testament cannon, this website will help a bit
>> with some of that:
>> http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-origin.htm
>> It's simple, verifiable, history, really.
>>      
> If chosen by God, then why the bible does not have scientific accuracy
> or complete historical precision:
>
> ?We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or
> complete historical precision,?
>
> Please article below.
>
> DK
>
>    


-- 

Have anhttp://Ultrafidian.com  Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site:http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources:http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From chris at adebenham.com  Tue Oct  5 00:02:26 2010
From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 15:02:26 +1100
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=TAeuVWgfB_ukYxpSdp5djZrRB_fH38LUAH5k1@mail.gmail.com>
	<6E5B1AF2-44E0-48CD-8175-ECF77BF0403C@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org> <4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
	<AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinJPGVkqinSiig38kPEf9gW75kpERHpVz=dFgSp@mail.gmail.com>

I am in complete agreement with you on this matter, but I would ask
that we all also pray for DK's church community and in particular for
that pastor who is leading people away from the truth of the
scriptures.

On 5 October 2010 14:51, pastordavid at bibleseven.com
<pastordavid at bibleseven.com> wrote:
> I wrote this last evening and decided to sleep and pray on it.
> Eddy's post has persuaded me that it is correct that I post it.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I think we are done here.
>
> DK has rejected every effort to lead him to truth - he appears to
> have a hardened-heart against truth and is partnering with the enemy
> to waste our time.
>
> We appear to be dealing with an unteachable spirit, one whose
> entire effort has been in opposition to the Christian faith and the
> integrity of the Word of God.
>
> I will pray for DK but will treat him as one whom Paul instructed
> be placed outside of the family to be sifted until he ceases his
> attacks upon God and the Word of God.
>
> In Him alone we trust,
>
> David
>
>> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 7:36 AM, Lincoln Fessenden<l4c at thelinuxlink.net>
>> ?wrote:>
>>
>>>
>>> Sorry, David, the Bible was chosen by God. ?The "Old Testament" comes
>>> form
>>> the Torah, which was written way before Catholicism rolled around. ?As
>>> for
>>> formal recognition of the New Testament cannon, this website will help a
>>> bit
>>> with some of that:
>>> http://www.allabouttruth.org/bible-origin.htm
>>> It's simple, verifiable, history, really.
>>>
>>
>> If chosen by God, then why the bible does not have scientific accuracy
>> or complete historical precision:
>>
>> ?We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or
>> complete historical precision,?
>>
>> Please article below.
>>
>> DK
>>
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Have anhttp://Ultrafidian.com ?Day! ?Pastor David
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Personal Site:http://bibleseven.com
> Bible Resources:http://bible.org
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>

From proyectopuente at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 00:06:45 2010
From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 23:06:45 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com>
References: <4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS33F2574A435C6D83CB507D96D0@phx.gbl>

Amen, Pastor David (NOT to be confused with David Kuntadi).

As I said before, David Kuntadi could care less what Scriptures or Church 
history have to say. He is here to steal our time. So many here have spoken 
Bible truth to him in love.  He decides not to listen.

The apostle Paul said to the Ephesian elders:

"I shrank not from declaring unto you anything that was profitable, and 
teaching you publicly, and from house to house, testifying both to Jews and 
to Greeks repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. ... 
Wherefore I testify unto you this day, that I am pure from the blood of all 
men." (Acts 20:20, 21, 26, American Standard Version)

So David Kuntadi: Your blood will not be required of me.

Dr. Steve, central old Mexico 


__________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5503 (20101004) __________

ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com




From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Tue Oct  5 00:07:02 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 00:07:02 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
 HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinJPGVkqinSiig38kPEf9gW75kpERHpVz=dFgSp@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com>
	<6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com>
	<vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org>
	<4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com>
	<210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com>
	<75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz>
	<AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net>
	<AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com>
	<AANLkTinJPGVkqinSiig38kPEf9gW75kpERHpVz=dFgSp@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CAAA466.6070807@bibleseven.com>

Indeed.  One who accepts a position of leadership and then brings
darkness in the name of the Lord is indeed in need of prayer as the
Lord's judgment upon him is said to be great.

DavidC

 > Chris Debenham wrote:
> I am in complete agreement with you on this matter, but I would ask
> that we all also pray for DK's church community and in particular for
> that pastor who is leading people away from the truth of the
> scriptures.
>
>    

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From proyectopuente at hotmail.com  Tue Oct  5 00:15:57 2010
From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.)
Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2010 23:15:57 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] OOT: BIBLICAL PROOF THAT PETER DID NOT LEAVE
	HIS WIFE.
In-Reply-To: <4CAAA466.6070807@bibleseven.com>
References: <AANLkTinvO7NC3pUZsOeQBauiGF1oKPMFT4sWkuPFQhyS@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTi=OLWVi-BNMz55yiUFRWC_HSD6k7mtWkzeVDqwg@mail.gmail.com><6915C0E8-4187-4B54-AE1C-AB976BEEE8BB@ofb.biz><AANLkTimwLWQ4JEytByvWdNrYyJ+TFBkDk2EMjKcgHZcR@mail.gmail.com><4CA40280.70203@bibleseven.com><AANLkTinTc2Ft2FKNsy_q2sKQoeGig8OQArvbDjLs+uGp@mail.gmail.com><vxkocbflwqg.fsf@awol.kleinpaste.org><4CA54CB6.3020908@lightlink.com><AANLkTin4DN1xYRHQw3bGa5jgo0NW_utD-V8p7SsgB2sp@mail.gmail.com><AANLkTi=mHQz5fo8VofuOJmObPXd1t58u+FjbFfCx3QWq@mail.gmail.com><210033FF-BB47-43B0-86E6-3CA74EF9E8CE@ofb.biz><AANLkTikbz4g6U04uuL0wvbX5sh+A6GEnpYbbwq2s5oBC@mail.gmail.com><75BF9372-BE96-453C-8F6C-D0B2BBBB60DA@ofb.biz><AANLkTikdiN9SoN9Mw5QPMVU2PQGUt+Xf3wTTJO5w1Ot+@mail.gmail.com><4CA7D013.1080508@thelinuxlink.net><AANLkTinKzxu-chg8Q_gzAqZtOEvH=tm27Aky95ssFoSe@mail.gmail.com><4CAAA0A6.6010500@bibleseven.com><AANLkTinJPGVkqinSiig38kPEf9gW75kpERHpVz=dFgSp@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CAAA466.6070807@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS18750FC139F9F84EA836AAD96D0@phx.gbl>

I agree also with Brother Chris that we must pray about this type of growing 
leadership that leads men's souls to Hell. We need another Reformation!

Here is my own strange idea: Maybe a false bride is bing prepared for the 
false Christ, the antichrist.

Dr. Steve, central old Mexico 


__________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5503 (20101004) __________

ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com




From parrisdc at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 11:16:39 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:16:39 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinYxjP9PpUDe=Q7dDuhSOGRD1tWFV6=ZeEmFrXK@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com> <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>
	<1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTinYxjP9PpUDe=Q7dDuhSOGRD1tWFV6=ZeEmFrXK@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=08ZCFWXL8dX31_sCrXzbU9G+QHpD_qZns1XEB@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 23:15, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 23:58, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 2010-10-02 at 23:41 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> > On 10/02/2010 03:03 AM, Mike McMullin wrote:
>> > > On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 19:40 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>>
>
>> <SNIP>

>
>>   I'd seriously like to know why I don't have the problems that some
>> folks do, and have problems that most folks don't.  For both of you I'd
>> suggest creating a new user, log into that account and try FF, if it
>> works your individual configs are busted, if it doesn't then the install
>> has a problem.
>>
>> I'll try these out, but it'll likely be late tomorrow or even Tuesday
> before I get the chance.  I appreciate the additional responses.
>
>
> Yep, definitely a strange issue.  I get the same result whether I rename
the .mozilla dir or create a new user - lots of action and no sound.  Guess
I'll keep Chrome handy.  ;-)



-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From gorkon at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 11:18:22 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 11:18:22 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTi=08ZCFWXL8dX31_sCrXzbU9G+QHpD_qZns1XEB@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com> <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>
	<1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTinYxjP9PpUDe=Q7dDuhSOGRD1tWFV6=ZeEmFrXK@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=08ZCFWXL8dX31_sCrXzbU9G+QHpD_qZns1XEB@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinzQLfD6_+Fxyr9oK+vQZ9AS3ptrQhM4xFCf+5n@mail.gmail.com>

Weirdest one I have ever heard.  I haven't had to monkey with flash
not working at all in years.  Flash itself is a piece of junk, but I
still need it.



On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 3, 2010 at 23:15, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 2, 2010 at 23:58, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sat, 2010-10-02 at 23:41 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>>> > On 10/02/2010 03:03 AM, Mike McMullin wrote:
>>> > > On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 19:40 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>>>
> <SNIP>
>>>
>>> ?I'd seriously like to know why I don't have the problems that some
>>> folks do, and have problems that most folks don't. ?For both of you I'd
>>> suggest creating a new user, log into that account and try FF, if it
>>> works your individual configs are busted, if it doesn't then the install
>>> has a problem.
>>>
>> I'll try these out, but it'll likely be late tomorrow or even Tuesday
>> before I get the chance. ?I appreciate the additional responses.
>>
> Yep, definitely a strange issue.? I get the same result whether I rename the
> .mozilla dir or create a new user - lots of action and no sound.? Guess I'll
> keep Chrome handy.? ;-)
>
>
>
> --
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From parrisdc at gmail.com  Tue Oct  5 14:56:15 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2010 14:56:15 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinzQLfD6_+Fxyr9oK+vQZ9AS3ptrQhM4xFCf+5n@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com> <1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>
	<1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>
	<AANLkTinYxjP9PpUDe=Q7dDuhSOGRD1tWFV6=ZeEmFrXK@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTi=08ZCFWXL8dX31_sCrXzbU9G+QHpD_qZns1XEB@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTinzQLfD6_+Fxyr9oK+vQZ9AS3ptrQhM4xFCf+5n@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTikNy5ZMxzpgVwdiXYLiVr5zFoMJg19usRdsdu+1@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:18, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:

> Weirdest one I have ever heard.  I haven't had to monkey with flash
> not working at all in years.  Flash itself is a piece of junk, but I
> still need it.
>
>
> Lol!

-- 
D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Tue Oct  5 22:11:30 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2010 22:11:30 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Firefox & Flash
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikNy5ZMxzpgVwdiXYLiVr5zFoMJg19usRdsdu+1@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimpQA-YQ-qRHg02HUGh0NV39eBcydEZSurHg=WC@mail.gmail.com>	<4CA6717E.20107@lightlink.com>
	<1286003006.8966.17.camel@P-733-Lin>	<4CA7FB73.2040301@lightlink.com>	<1286078339.16995.16.camel@P-733-Lin>	<AANLkTinYxjP9PpUDe=Q7dDuhSOGRD1tWFV6=ZeEmFrXK@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTi=08ZCFWXL8dX31_sCrXzbU9G+QHpD_qZns1XEB@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTinzQLfD6_+Fxyr9oK+vQZ9AS3ptrQhM4xFCf+5n@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTikNy5ZMxzpgVwdiXYLiVr5zFoMJg19usRdsdu+1@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CABDAD2.8040200@bibleseven.com>

Have you tried:  Gnash?

It is a Flash replacement player.

> On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:18, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com 
> <mailto:gorkon at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>       Flash itself is a piece of junk, but I still need it.
>
>
> Lol!
> -- 
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct  6 02:16:21 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 02:16:21 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Numbers 21
Message-ID: <4CAC1435.7080004@bibleseven.com>


    Wednesday


      Numbers 21


Victory at Hormah

21:1 When the Canaanite king of Arad who lived in the Negev heard that 
Israel was approaching along the road to Atharim, he fought against 
Israel and took some of them prisoner.

21:2 So Israel made a vow to the Lord and said, "If you will indeed 
deliver this people into our hand, then we will utterly destroy their 
cities." 21:3 The Lord listened to the voice of Israel and delivered up 
the Canaanites, and they utterly destroyed them and their cities. So the 
name of the place was called Hormah.

Fiery Serpents

21:4 Then they traveled from Mount Hor by the road to the Red Sea, to go 
around the land of Edom, but the people became impatient along the way. 
21:5 And the people spoke against God and against Moses, "Why have you 
brought us up out of Egypt to die in the wilderness, for there is no 
bread or water, and we detest this worthless food."

21:6 So the Lord sent poisonous snakes among the people, and they bit 
the people; many people of Israel died. 21:7 Then the people came to 
Moses and said, "We have sinned, for we have spoken against the Lord and 
against you. Pray to the Lord that he would take away the snakes from 
us." So Moses prayed for the people.

21:8 The Lord said to Moses, "Make a poisonous snake and set it on a 
pole. When anyone who is bitten looks at it, he will live." 21:9 So 
Moses made a bronze snake and put it on a pole, so that if a snake had 
bitten someone, when he looked at the bronze snake he lived.

The Approach to Moab

21:10 The Israelites traveled on and camped in Oboth. 21:11 Then they 
traveled on from Oboth and camped at Iye Abarim, in the wilderness that 
is before Moab, on the eastern side. 21:12 From there they moved on and 
camped in the valley of Zered. 21:13 From there they moved on and camped 
on the other side of the Arnon, in the wilderness that extends from the 
regions of the Amorites, for Arnon is the border of Moab, between Moab 
and the Amorites. 21:14 This is why it is said in the Book of the Wars 
of the Lord,

"Waheb in Suphah and the wadis, the Arnon 21:15 and the slope of the 
valleys that extends to the dwelling of Ar, and falls off at the border 
of Moab."

21:16 And from there they traveled to Beer; that is the well where the 
Lord spoke to Moses, "Gather the people and I will give them water." 
21:17 Then Israel sang this song:

"Spring up, O well, sing to it!

21:18 The well which the princes dug, which the leaders of the people 
opened with their scepters and their staffs."

And from the wilderness they traveled to Mattanah; 21:19 and from 
Mattanah to Nahaliel; and from Nahaliel to Bamoth; 21:20 and from Bamoth 
to the valley that is in the country of Moab, near the top of Pisgah, 
which overlooks the wilderness.

The Victory over Sihon and Og

21:21 Then Israel sent messengers to King Sihon of the Amorites, saying,

21:22 "Let us pass through your land; we will not turn aside into the 
fields or into the vineyards, nor will we drink water from any well, but 
we will go along the King's Highway until we pass your borders." 21:23 
But Sihon did not permit Israel to pass through his border; he gathered 
all his forces together and went out against Israel into the wilderness. 
When he came to Jahaz, he fought against Israel. 21:24 But the 
Israelites defeated him in battle and took possession of his land from 
the Arnon to the Jabbok, as far as the Ammonites, for the border of the 
Ammonites was strongly defended. 21:25 So Israel took all these cities; 
and Israel settled in all the cities of the Amorites, in Heshbon, and in 
all its villages. 21:26 For Heshbon was the city of King Sihon of the 
Amorites. Now he had fought against the former king of Moab and had 
taken all of his land from his control, as far as the Arnon. 21:27 That 
is why those who speak in proverbs say,

"Come to Heshbon, let it be built. Let the city of Sihon be established! 
21:28 For fire went out from Heshbon, a flame from the city of Sihon. It 
has consumed Ar of Moab and the lords of the high places of Arnon.

21:29 Woe to you, Moab. You are ruined, O people of Chemosh! He has made 
his sons fugitives, and his daughters the prisoners of King Sihon of the 
Amorites. 21:30 We have overpowered them; Heshbon has perished as far as 
Dibon. We have shattered them as far as Nophah, which reaches to Medeba."

21:31 So the Israelites lived in the land of the Amorites. 21:32 Moses 
sent spies to reconnoiter Jaazer, and they captured its villages and 
dispossessed the Amorites who were there.

21:33 Then they turned and went up by the road to Bashan. And King Og of 
Bashan and all his forces marched out against them to do battle at 
Edrei. 21:34 And the Lord said to Moses, "Do not fear him, for I have 
delivered him and all his people and his land into your hand. You will 
do to him what you did to King Sihon of the Amorites, who lived in 
Heshbon. 21:35 So they defeated Og, his sons, and all his people, until 
there were no survivors, and they possessed his land.




      Prayer


Lord, You have shown us Your faithfulness and power, You ask only that 
we trust and obey. May I always trust in You and obey Your Word.



      Commentary



Israel has a new head priest and has, at the Lord God's behest, 
continued their travels.

The Canaanites attack them and take them captive and they cry out to God 
-- He intervenes and they were empowered to defeat them and to destroy 
their cities.

The continued their travels and once again complained, criticizing Moses 
and God, so God sent snakes among them. They cried out in repentance so 
God has Moses mount a brass snake on a pole and if they were bitten and 
looked to that symbol of God they would be healed.

The Amorites and then the King of Og both attacked them and God gave the 
Israelites victory and possession of their lands.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

The Israelites promised God that they would not compromise with the 
local inhabitants, but if God gave them to them in battle, they would 
destroy them. He did and they did.


        Discuss this:

After all that has happened how could the people repeat the error of 
rebellion?



        Reflect on this:

God leads and provides and protects and empowers -- and wants to bless.


        Share this:

When have you doubted God, despite repeated evidences of His loving care 
in your live and perhaps even that of others?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to commit to serve God 
and to trust Him to be your strength.



        Action:

Today I will partner with the Holy Spirit in the ministry that God has 
set before me. I will be fearless as the battle is the Lord's. I will 
share what He has said with a fellow believer and will ask that person 
to pray in-agreement with me for courage and wisdom. I will share what 
God does through me, and in me, as a result.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________




    Thursday's text will be:


      Numbers 22-24



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct  6 21:15:13 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2010 21:15:13 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Numbers 22-24
Message-ID: <4CAD1F21.9020308@bibleseven.com>


    Thursday


      Numbers 22-24


Balaam Refuses to Curse Israel

22:1 The Israelites traveled on and camped in the plains of Moab on the 
side of the Jordan River across from Jericho. 22:2 Balak son of Zippor 
saw all that the Israelites had done to the Amorites. 22:3 And the 
Moabites were greatly afraid of the people, because they were so 
numerous. The Moabites were sick with fear because of the Israelites.

22:4 So the Moabites said to the elders of Midian, "Now this mass of 
people will lick up everything around us, as the bull devours the grass 
of the field. Now Balak son of Zippor was king of the Moabites at this 
time. 22:5 And he sent messengers to Balaam son of Beor at Pethor, which 
is by the Euphrates River in the land of Amaw, to summon him, saying, 
"Look, a nation has come out of Egypt. They cover the face of the earth, 
and they are settling next to me. 22:6 So now, please come and curse 
this nation for me, for they are too powerful for me. Perhaps I will 
prevail so that we may conquer them and drive them out of the land. For 
I know that whoever you bless is blessed, and whoever you curse is cursed."

22:7 So the elders of Moab and the elders of Midian departed with the 
fee for divination in their hand. They came to Balaam and reported to 
him the words of Balak. 22:8 He replied to them, "Stay here tonight, and 
I will bring back to you whatever word the Lord may speak to me." So the 
princes of Moab stayed with Balaam. 22:9 And God came to Balaam and 
said, "Who are these men with you?" 22:10 Balaam said to God, "Balak son 
of Zippor, king of Moab, has sent a message to me, saying, 22:11 "Look, 
a nation has come out of Egypt, and it covers the face of the earth. 
Come now and put a curse on them for me; perhaps I will be able to 
defeat them and drive them out." 22:12 But God said to Balaam, "You must 
not go with them; you must not curse the people, for they are blessed."

22:13 So Balaam got up in the morning, and said to the princes of Balak, 
"Go to your land, for the Lord has refused to permit me to go with you." 
22:14 So the princes of Moab departed and went back to Balak and said, 
"Balaam refused to come with us."

Balaam Accompanies the Moabite Princes

22:15 Balak again sent princes, more numerous and more distinguished 
than the first. 22:16 And they came to Balaam and said to him, "Thus 
says Balak son of Zippor: 'Please do not let anything hinder you from 
coming to me. 22:17 For I will honor you greatly, and whatever you tell 
me I will do. So come, put a curse on this nation for me.'"

22:18 Balaam replied to the servants of Balak, "Even if Balak would give 
me his palace full of silver and gold, I could not transgress the 
commandment of the Lord my God to do less or more. 22:19 Now therefore, 
please stay the night here also, that I may know what more the Lord 
might say to me." 22:20 God came to Balaam that night, and said to him, 
"If the men have come to call you, get up and go with them; but the word 
that I will say to you, that you must do." 22:21 So Balaam got up in the 
morning, saddled his donkey, and went with the princes of Moab.

God Opposes Balaam

22:22 Then God's anger was kindled because he went, and the angel of the 
Lord stood in the road to oppose him. Now he was riding on his donkey 
and his two servants were with him. 22:23 And the donkey saw the angel 
of the Lord standing in the road with his sword drawn in his hand, so 
the donkey turned aside from the road and went into the field. But 
Balaam beat the donkey, to make her turn back to the road.

22:24 Then the angel of the Lord stood in a path among the vineyards, 
where there was a wall on either side. 22:25 And when the donkey saw the 
angel of the Lord, she pressed herself into the wall, and crushed 
Balaam's foot against the wall. So he beat her again.

22:26 Then the angel of the Lord went farther, and stood in a narrow 
place, where there was no way to turn either to the right or to the 
left. 22:27 When the donkey saw the angel of the Lord, she crouched down 
under Balaam. Then Balaam was angry, and he beat his donkey with a staff.

22:28 Then the Lord opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to 
Balaam, "What have I done to you that you have beaten me these three 
times?" 22:29 And Balaam said to the donkey, "You have made me look 
stupid; I wish there were a sword in my hand, for I would kill you right 
now." 22:30 The donkey said to Balaam, "Am not I your donkey that you 
have ridden ever since I was yours until this day? Have I ever attempted 
to treat you this way?" And he said, "No." 22:31 Then the Lord opened 
Balaam's eyes, and he saw the angel of the Lord standing in the way with 
his sword drawn in his hand; so he bowed his head and threw himself down 
with his face to the ground. 22:32 The angel of the Lord said to him, 
"Why have you beaten your donkey these three times? Look, I came out to 
oppose you because what you are doing is perverse before me. 22:33 The 
donkey saw me and turned from me these three times. If she had not 
turned from me, I would have killed you but saved her alive." 22:34 
Balaam said to the angel of the Lord, "I have sinned, for I did not know 
that you stood against me in the road. So now, if it is evil in your 
sight, I will go back home." 22:35 But the angel of the Lord said to 
Balaam, "Go with the men, but you may only speak the word that I will 
speak to you." So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

Balaam Meets Balak

22:36 When Balak heard that Balaam was coming, he went out to meet him 
at a city of Moab which was on the border of the Arnon at the boundary 
of his territory. 22:37 Balak said to Balaam, "Did I not send again and 
again to you to summon you? Why did you not come to me? Am I not able to 
honor you?" 22:38 Balaam said to Balak, "Look, I have come to you. Now, 
am I able to speak just anything? I must speak only the word that God 
puts in my mouth." 22:39 So Balaam went with Balak, and they came to 
Kiriath-huzoth. 22:40 And Balak sacrificed bulls and sheep, and sent 
some to Balaam, and to the princes who were with him. 22:41 Then on the 
next morning Balak took Balaam, and brought him up to Bamoth Baal. From 
there he saw the extent of the nation.

Balaam Blesses Israel

23:1 Balaam said to Balak, "Build me seven altars here, and prepare for 
me here seven bulls and seven rams." 23:2 So Balak did just as Balaam 
had said. Balak and Balaam then offered on each altar a bull and a ram. 
23:3 Balaam said to Balak, "Station yourself by your burnt offering, and 
I will go off; perhaps the Lord will come to meet me, and whatever he 
reveals to me I will tell you." Then he went to a deserted height.

23:4 Then God met Balaam, who said to him, "I have prepared seven 
altars, and I have offered on each altar a bull and a ram." 23:5 Then 
the Lord put a message in Balaam's mouth and said, "Return to Balak, and 
speak what I tell you."

23:6 So he returned to him, and he was still standing by his burnt 
offering, he and all the princes of Moab. 23:7 Then Balaam uttered his 
oracle, saying,

"Balak, the king of Moab, brought me from Aram,

out of the mountains of the east, saying,

'Come, pronounce a curse on Jacob for me;

come, denounce Israel.'

23:8 How can I curse one whom God has not cursed,

or how can I denounce one whom the Lord has not denounced?

23:9 For from the top of the rocks I see them;

from the hills I watch them.

Indeed, a nation that lives alone,

and it will not be reckoned among the nations.

23:10 Who can count the dust of Jacob,

Or number the fourth part of Israel?

Let me die the death of the upright,

and let the end of my life be like theirs."

Balaam Relocates

23:11 Then Balak said to Balaam, "What have you done to me? I brought 
you to curse my enemies, but on the contrary you have only blessed 
them!" 23:12 Balaam replied, "Must I not be careful to speak what the 
Lord has put in my mouth?" 23:13 Balak said to him, "Please come with me 
to another place from which you can observe them. You will see only a 
part of them, but you will not see all of them. Curse them for me from 
there."

23:14 So Balak brought Balaam to the field of Zophim, to the top of 
Pisgah, where he built seven altars and offered a bull and a ram on each 
altar. 23:15 And Balaam said to Balak, "Station yourself here by your 
burnt offering, while I meet the Lord there. 23:16 Then the Lord met 
Balaam and put a message in his mouth and said, "Return to Balak, and 
speak what I tell you." 23:17 When Balaam came to him, he was still 
standing by his burnt offering, along with the princes of Moab. And 
Balak said to him, "What has the Lord spoken?"

Balaam Prophesies Again

23:18 Balaam uttered his oracle, and said,

"Rise up, Balak, and hear;

Listen to me, son of Zippor:

23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie,

nor a human being, that he should change his mind.

Has he said, and will he not do it?

Or has he spoken, and will he not make it happen?

23:20 Indeed, I have received a command to bless;

he has blessed, and I cannot reverse it.

23:21 He has not looked on iniquity in Jacob,

nor has he seen trouble in Israel.

The Lord their God is with them;

his acclamation as king is among them.

23:22 God brought them out of Egypt.

They have, as it were, the strength of a wild bull.

23:23 For there is no spell against Jacob,

nor is there any divination against Israel.

At this time it must be said of Jacob

and of Israel, 'Look at what God has done!'

23:24 Indeed, the people will rise up like a lioness,

and like a lion raises himself up;

they will not lie down until they eat their prey,

and drink the blood of the slain."

Balaam Relocates Yet Again

23:25 Balak said to Balaam, "Neither curse them at all nor bless them at 
all!" 23:26 But Balaam replied to Balak, "Did I not tell you, 'All that 
the Lord speaks, I must do'?"

23:27 Balak said to Balaam, "Come, please; I will take you to another 
place. Perhaps it will please God to let you curse them for me from 
there." 23:28 So Balak took Balaam to the top of Peor, that looks toward 
the wilderness. 23:29 Then Balaam said to Balak, "Build seven altars 
here for me, and prepare seven bulls and seven rams." 23:30 So Balak did 
as Balaam had said, and offered a bull and a ram on each altar.

Balaam Prophesies Yet Again

24:1 When Balaam saw that it pleased the Lord to bless Israel, he did 
not go as at the other times to seek for omens, but he set his face 
toward the wilderness. 24:2 When Balaam lifted up his eyes, he saw 
Israel camped tribe by tribe; and the Spirit of God came upon him. 24:3 
Then he uttered this oracle:

"The oracle of Balaam son of Beor;

the oracle of the man whose eyes are open;

24:4 the oracle of the one who hears the words of God,

who sees a vision from the Almighty,

although falling flat on the ground with eyes open:

24:5 'How beautiful are your tents, O Jacob,

and your dwelling places, O Israel!

24:6 They are like valleys stretched forth,

like gardens by the river's side,

like aloes that the Lord has planted,

and like cedar trees beside the waters.

24:7 He will pour the water out of his buckets,

and their descendants will be like abundant water;

their king will be greater than Agag,

and their kingdom will be exalted.

24:8 God brought them out of Egypt.

They have, as it were, the strength of a young bull;

they will devour hostile people

and will break their bones

and will pierce them through with arrows.

24:9 They crouch and lie down like a lion,

and as a lioness, who can stir him?

Blessed is the one who blesses you,

and cursed is the one who curses you!'"

24:10 Then Balak became very angry at Balaam, and he struck his hands 
together. Balak said to Balaam, "I called you to curse my enemies, and 
look, you have done nothing but bless them these three times! 24:11 So 
now, go back where you came from! I said that I would greatly honor you; 
but now the Lord has stood in the way of your honor."

24:12 Balaam said to Balak, "Did I not also tell your messengers whom 
you sent to me, 24:13 'If Balak would give me his palace full of silver 
and gold, I cannot go beyond the commandment of the Lord to do either 
good or evil of my own will, but whatever the Lord tells me I must 
speak'? 24:14 And now, I am about to go back to my own people. Come now, 
and I will advise you as to what this people will do to your people in 
the future."

Balaam Prophesies a Fourth Time

24:15 Then he uttered this oracle:

"The oracle of Balaam son of Beor;

the oracle of the man whose eyes are open;

24:16 the oracle of the one who hears the words of God,

and who knows the knowledge of the Most High,

who sees a vision from the Almighty,

although falling flat on the ground with eyes open:

24:17 'I see him, but not now;

I behold him, but not close at hand.

A star will march forth out of Jacob,

and a scepter will rise out of Israel.

He will crush the skulls of Moab,

and the heads of all the sons of Sheth.

24:18 Edom will be a possession,

Seir, his enemies, will also be a possession;

but Israel will act valiantly.

24:19 A ruler will be established from Jacob;

he will destroy the remains of the city.'"

Balaam's Final Prophecies

24:20 Then Balaam looked on Amalek and delivered this oracle:

"Amalek was the first of the nations,

but his end will be that he will perish."

24:21 Then he looked on the Kenites and uttered this oracle:

"Your dwelling place seems strong,

and your nest is set on a rocky cliff.

24:22 Nevertheless the Kenite will be consumed.

How long will Asshur take you away captive?"

24:23 Then he uttered this oracle:

"O, who will survive when God does this!

24:24 Ships will come from the coast of Kittim,

and will afflict Asshur, and will afflict Eber,

and he will also perish forever."

24:25 Balaam got up and departed and returned to his home, and Balak 
also went his way.




      Prayer


Lord, Your require Your servants to listen closely and to obey 
completely, may I be found to be a good listener and a faithful follower.



      Commentary


The Moabites had observed all that God for the Israelites against the 
Amorites and others and decided to engage in spiritual warfare against them.

They reached out to Balaam who had a reputation for some power in the 
realm of blessings and curses. Balaam heard their request to come and 
curse Israel and asked the spirits what he was allowed to do. God 
intervened and forbid him to curse Israel.

The messengers returned with Balaam's refusal so the king sent a 
higher-level delegation to pressure him to come. Balaam again consulted 
the spirits and God again intervened and told him that if they came to 
call him -- and when they asked him to go with them he went -- without 
returning to ask God what he was to say and do.

God was angry with his disobedience and blocked the way of his donkey 
with an angel wielding a sword that only the donkey could see, so Balaam 
whipped the donkey, then the angel allowed the donkey to proceed to the 
vineyard when this time the angel caused the donkey to grind up against 
the walls, crushing Balaam's foot, so Balaam whipped him again, then the 
angel allowed the donkey to travel a bit further until the way was 
narrowed -- at which point the donkey crouched down -- and Balaam 
whipped him again.

The Lord God placed the voice of a man in the mouth of the donkey and he 
asked Balaam why he was beating him. Balaam, accustomed to meddling in 
the occult, seemed unaffected by a talking donkey and answered him that 
he (the donkey) had embarrassed him and had he a sword he would have 
killed him. The donkey asked if he (the donkey) had ever done such a 
thing before and Balaam acknowledged that he had not -- then God 
revealed the angel to Balaam.

Balaam bowed and confessed that he had not seen the angel. God explained 
that what he (Balaam) was on his way to do was evil (Balaam did not know 
this because he had not waited long enough to hear from God what He 
wanted of him). Balaam offered to return home but God instructed him to 
continue - this time knowing what was his mission -- he was going not to 
serve the princes of Balak but to serve God.

Balak took Balaam from location to location to curse Israel but at each 
point he consulted God and decided to stand with those whom God was 
blessing and not with Balak in cursing them.

Balaam warned Balak and the other pagan kings to not attack Israel and 
prophesied their downfall before Israel.


      Interaction


        Consider this:

Balaam wanted to serve Balak and receive the money and prestige but was 
superstitious enough to consult the spirits first -- then he heard from 
the Lord God -- but rushed off before listening fully to God.


        Discuss this:

Why was Balak so convinced, despite Balaam telling him that God seemed 
to be standing in the way of cursing Israel, that Balaam would do as 
asked for the price he offered?



        Reflect on this:

Balaam didn't care on whose side he served but was superstitious enough 
to look where the spirits were moving and it was clear that the Lord God 
had made a decision about Israel and He was the most powerful.


        Share this:

When have you been asked to pray for something and you were unsure if it 
was truly the will of God?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may either be rushing into a 
situation without a clear sense of God's instructions, or where you have 
been asked to support something in opposition to God's will.



        Action:

Today I will prayerfully consult the Word and inquire of the Holy Spirit 
so as to obtain God's perspective. No matter what others offer or say I 
will be steadfast in standing with God. I will share this challenging 
situation with one who is Biblically qualified as an elder and seek 
their prayerful counsel and prayers in-agreement for strength and wisdom.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Friday's text will be:


      Numbers 25-26



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Thu Oct  7 21:27:36 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2010 21:27:36 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Numbers 25-26
Message-ID: <4CAE7388.7030301@bibleseven.com>


    Friday


      Numbers 25-26


Israel's Sin with the Moabite Women

25:1 When Israel lived in Shittim, the people began to commit sexual 
immorality with the daughters of Moab. 25:2 These women invited the 
people to the sacrifices of their gods; then the people ate and bowed 
down to their gods. 25:3 When Israel joined themselves to Baal-peor, the 
anger of the Lord flared up against Israel.

God's Punishment

25:4 The Lord said to Moses, "Arrest all the leaders of the people, and 
hang them up before the Lord in broad daylight, so that the fierce anger 
of the Lord may be turned away from Israel." 25:5 So Moses said to the 
judges of Israel, "Each of you must execute those of his men who were 
joined to Baal-peor."

25:6 Just then one of the Israelites came and brought to his brothers a 
Midianite woman in the plain view of Moses and of the whole community of 
the Israelites, while they were weeping at the entrance of the tent of 
meeting. 25:7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, 
saw it, he got up from among the assembly, took a javelin in his hand, 
25:8 and went after the Israelite man into the tent and thrust through 
the Israelite man and into the woman's abdomen. So the plague was 
stopped from the Israelites. 25:9 Those that died in the plague were 24,000.

The Aftermath

25:10 The Lord spoke to Moses: 25:11 "Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son 
of Aaron the priest, has turned my anger away from the Israelites, when 
he manifested such zeal for my sake among them, so that I did not 
consume the Israelites in my zeal. 25:12 Therefore, announce: 'I am 
going to give to him my covenant of peace. 25:13 So it will be to him 
and his descendants after him a covenant of a permanent priesthood, 
because he has been zealous for his God, and has made atonement for the 
Israelites.'"

25:14 Now the name of the Israelite who was stabbed -- the one who was 
stabbed with the Midianite woman -- was Zimri son of Salu, a leader of a 
clan of the Simeonites. 25:15 The name of the Midianite woman who was 
killed was Cozbi daughter of Zur. He was a leader over the people of a 
clan of Midian.

25:16 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 25:17 "Bring trouble to the 
Midianites, and destroy them, 25:18 because they bring trouble to you by 
their treachery with which they have deceived you in the matter of Peor, 
and in the matter of Cozbi, the daughter of a prince of Midian, their 
sister, who was killed on the day of the plague that happened as a 
result of Peor."

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=26



      Prayer


Lord, You have warned us against dividing our loyalty between You and 
the false Gods, may I be found faithful to You alone.



      Commentary


Some of the Israelite men disobeyed God and chose to engage in sexual 
sin with the Moabite women.

Once they had become emotionally and physically intimate with the 
Moabites they sought to fit in with their culture and to please them, so 
they indulged also in their pagan cult.

The Lord God was righteously angry and caused a plague to fall upon 
Israel. He instructed Moses to bring those who had led others into this 
sin before Him and to hang them.

While they were assembling one man brought a Moabite woman in front of 
the tent of meeting to show here to Moses -- openly flaunting his sin 
before Moses, the tribal leaders (elders), and others.

Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest rose up in 
righteous indignation and killed them both with a single javelin thrust. 
God stopped the plague but 24,000 had died. He also rewarded Phineas and 
his descendants with a perpetual priesthood.

God instructed Moses to destroy the Moabites for luring the Israelites 
into sin.

God then instructed Moses to conduct a new census of the people. Those 
men over 20 years of age, capable of serving in the military, numbered 
601,730 -- and not one of those who had been over the age of 20 at the 
time of rebellion against God and Moses at the edge of the promised land 
was still alive. Only Caleb and Joshua were spared.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

All sin is first against God, then against ourselves, and finally 
against others.


        Discuss this:

What were the differences in heart between the impetuous man with the 
Moabite woman and Phineas who speared them?



        Reflect on this:

Through the several battles and plagues God purged Israel of all of the 
rebels, just as He said He would.


        Share this:

When have you responded with a heart jealous for righteousness to an 
obvious sin?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be flaunting sin before 
God and man.


        Action:

Today I will confess, repent, request and receive forgiveness, and build 
an accountability system to avoid the sin I have previously been unaware 
that I was flaunting -- or had been thinking I could get away with. It 
may be tempting my brother to stumble in the way that I act or dress, it 
may be making of worldly things something important -- drawing others to 
prioritize them over the more-important things of God (activities, 
celebrities, entertainment, hobbies, possessions, power, sports), it may 
be a careless or crass attitude toward the things of God in an effort to 
set myself apart as a rebel. I will ask someone Biblically qualified to 
be an elder to be the Holy Spirit's servant to mentor me to greater 
maturity.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Saturday's text will be:


      Numbers 27



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Fri Oct  8 20:30:25 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2010 20:30:25 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Numbers 27
Message-ID: <4CAFB7A1.3090005@bibleseven.com>


    Saturday


      Numbers 27


Special Inheritance Laws

27:1 Then the daughters of Zelophehad son of Hepher, the son of Gilead, 
the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh of the families of Manasseh, the 
son Joseph came forward. Now these are the names of his daughters: 
Mahlah, Noah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Tirzah. 27:2 And they stood before 
Moses and Eleazar the priest and the leaders of the whole assembly at 
the entrance to the tent of meeting and said, 27:3 "Our father died in 
the wilderness, although he was not part of the company of those that 
gathered themselves together against the Lord in the company of Korah; 
but he died for his own sin, and he had no sons. 27:4 Why should the 
name of our father be lost from among his family because he had no son? 
Give us a possession among the relatives of our father."

27:5 So Moses brought their case before the Lord. 27:6 The Lord said to 
Moses: 27:7 "The daughters of Zelophehad have a valid claim. You must 
indeed give them possession of an inheritance among their father's 
relatives, and you must transfer the inheritance of their father to 
them. 27:8 And you must tell the Israelites, 'If a man dies and has no 
son, then you must transfer his inheritance to his daughter; 27:9 and if 
he has no daughter, then you are to give his inheritance to his 
brothers; 27:10 and if he has no brothers, then you are to give his 
inheritance to his father's brothers; 27:11 and if his father has no 
brothers, then you are to give his inheritance to his relative nearest 
to him from his family, and he will possess it. This will be for the 
Israelites a legal requirement, as the Lord commanded Moses.'"

Leadership Change

27:12 Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go up this mountain of the Abarim 
range, and see the land I have given to the Israelites. 27:13 When you 
have seen it, you will be gathered to your ancestors, as Aaron your 
brother was gathered to his ancestors. 27:14 For in the wilderness of 
Zin when the community rebelled against me, you rebelled against my 
command to show me as holy before their eyes over the water -- the water 
of Meribah in Kadesh in the wilderness of Zin."

27:15 Then Moses spoke to the Lord: 27:16 "Let the Lord, the God of the 
spirits of all humankind, appoint a man over the community, 27:17 who 
will go out before them, and who will come in before them, and who will 
lead them out, and who will bring them in, so that the community of the 
Lord may not be like sheep that have no shepherd."

27:18 The Lord replied to Moses, "Take Joshua son of Nun, a man in whom 
is such a spirit, and lay your hand on him; 27:19 set him before Eleazar 
the priest and before the whole community, and commission him publicly. 
27:20 Then you must delegate some of your authority to him, so that the 
whole community of the Israelites will be obedient. 27:21 And he will 
stand before Eleazar the priest, who will seek counsel for him before 
the Lord by the decision of the Urim. At his command they will go out, 
and at his command they will come in, he and all the Israelites with 
him, the whole community."

27:22 So Moses did as the Lord commanded him; he took Joshua and set him 
before Eleazar the priest and before the whole community. 27:23 He laid 
his hands on him and commissioned him, just as the Lord commanded, by 
the authority of Moses.



      Prayer

Lord, Your heart is one of perfect grace and justice and You see beyond 
gender and race to the heart of the matter. May I follow Your perfect 
model and never treat anyone based on anything that You have taught me 
is not relevant to justice.


      Commentary


A man died without sons and his daughters petitioned Moses for his 
inheritance, something not previously a part of their cultural 
tradition. Moses consulted the Lord God and He said that their claim was 
just and that meeting such claims was to be added to the regulations. He 
also added a series of other circumstances which provided for a 
hierarchy of inheritors to assure that property He had given would 
remain within the family.

God then instructed Moses to view the promised land and reminded him 
that he would not be allowed to enter it due to his rebellion at the 
second miracle of water from the stone.

Moses asked God to appoint a successor so that the people would have a 
shepherd and God instructed that Moses and Eleazar should anoint Joshua 
before the people as evidence that God had called him.


      Interaction


        Consider this:

In matters of justice God does not discriminate against people based on 
their gender.


        Discuss this:

What was it that the people had observed in God, and of God through 
Moses, that caused these women to believe that their appeal for a change 
to the traditions would be heard?



        Reflect on this:

Moses was the single more important human spokesman for God, when he 
rebelled at the stone of water (Meriba) it was a huge matter as he 
placed himself between God and man and took upon himself credibility and 
expressed less-than-righteous anger.


        Share this:

When have you acted and/or spoken impulsively in a way that would have 
appeared to an observer to displace God in both authority and temperament?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be acting independently of 
God in matters He has said are His.



        Action:

Today I will receive the chastising of the Holy Spirit. I will confess 
and repent of those times and places where I contemplate, and even 
act-out, revenge (great or small) -- knowing that God has said that "... 
revenge belongs to the Lord", or sin in my anger by allowing myself to 
be a tool of the enemy as I act and/or speak in a fit of rage, 
uncontrolled by the Holy Spirit. Or perhaps I am cruel, disrespectful, 
spiteful, unjust, or in any other way allow my flesh to control me when 
I am known as a child of God who should be a conduit of His love and to 
be under control. I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement for 
my healing from this/these sin(s). As necessary I will ask one who is 
Biblically qualified as an elder to counsel and mentor me and to hold me 
accountable.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________


Sunday's text will be: Numbers 28-29

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct  9 14:25:38 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2010 14:25:38 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Numbers 28-29
Message-ID: <4CB0B3A2.7000101@bibleseven.com>


    Sunday


      Numbers 28-29


http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=28 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=28>

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=29 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=29>



      Prayer


Lord, You required of the Israelites a daily offering, may my life also 
be a daily offering to You.



      Commentary


The Lord God refined His prior instructions for the offerings required 
of the people. He increased the offering to daily.

He reminded them of the importance of the Passover, of refraining from 
"ordinary work" on the seventh day, and that the offering must be 
"unblemished".

Notable is the summary of 29:39 "'These things you must present to the 
Lord at your appointed times, in addition to your vows and your freewill 
offerings, as your burnt offerings, your grain offerings, your drink 
offerings, and your peace offerings.'"



      Interaction


        Consider this:

The Lord appears to have increased the level of offerings, perhaps to 
keep the Israelites more constantly focused on Him and less likely to 
rebel and to wander.


        Discuss this:

What must have been the impact of increased offerings as they meant more 
investment in the raising of "unblemished" sacrificial animals and of 
the best quality grains, all to be given without financial compensation 
to the sacrifice?



        Reflect on this:

Lots has happened since their exodus from Egypt but as they are about to 
enter the promised land God reminds them of the Passover so that they 
not forget Who made it all possible.


        Share this:

When have you assessed your giving to the Lord? Did you discover 
multiple ways that you do so from the resources He has given to you?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may need to build a little 
structure, not rigid legalism or ritual, into your life to keep Him 
constantly before you.



        Action:

Today I will agree with the Holy Spirit and add the necessary daily 
activities, dedicated to the praise and worship of God, to help me to 
keep my eyes on Him and less likely to drift into the world. If I am 
reminded that I am already doing this well then I will pause to praise 
Him for that work in my life and will look carefully to assure that 
these activities have not become powerless rituals or heart-dulling 
legalisms.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Monday's text will be:


      Numbers 30



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From chris at adebenham.com  Sun Oct 10 19:23:33 2010
From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:23:33 +1100
Subject: [Linux4christians] Lyricue 3.0.11 Released (and precue 1.10)
Message-ID: <AANLkTimAaLBc57j-B98qUpffbQcTTwSnSrh6D2-CX9KZ@mail.gmail.com>

G'day all,
This is just a quick note to announce that I have released version 3.0
of Lyricue which is a program designed to run the projector screen at
your church/venue.
Have a look at www.lyricue.org and https://launchpad.net/lyricue/ for details.

For those not familiar with Lyricue it is free and open-source
application that is used to edit/display song lyrics and passages of
text along with images and videos on a second screen/projector.
It was designed for use at live events such as church services,
concerts and seminars.
With Lyricue you are not restricted to setting everything up before
the event as you can add, remove and change songs on the fly.
You can edit a song while it is up on the screen and quickly show your
changes (good for when you notice a misspelling or the singers decide
to change the words on you)
You can even type up notes directly to the screen or quickly display a
bible verse at an instants notice.

What is new with this release is that the projector portion has been
re-written from scratch to use pure Clutter (rather than the perl
bindings) so we get all the goodness of 3D-accelerated compositing.
This means you can do snazzy things like have the text rotate in three
dimensions to change from page to page - all while having a video
looping in the background!  :-)
Lyricue uses gstreamer to play videos so supports any format that
gstreamer does (ie anything playable by Totem)
There is even the first steps to proper DVD playing support in there.

Regards,
  Chris

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sun Oct 10 22:27:05 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2010 22:27:05 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Numbers 30
Message-ID: <4CB275F9.7010700@bibleseven.com>


    Monday


      Numbers 30


Vows Made by Men

30:1 Moses told the leaders of the tribes concerning the Israelites, 
"This is what the Lord has commanded: 30:2 If a man makes a vow to the 
Lord or takes an oath of binding obligation on himself, he must not 
break his word, but must do whatever he has promised.

Vows Made by Single Women

30:3 "If a young woman who is still living in her father's house makes a 
vow to the Lord or places herself under an obligation, 30:4 and her 
father hears of her vow or the obligation to which she has pledged 
herself, and her father remains silent about her, then all her vows will 
stand, and every obligation to which she has pledged herself will stand. 
30:5 But if her father overrules her when he hears about it, then none 
of her vows or her obligations which she has pledged for herself will 
stand. And the Lord will release her from it, because her father 
overruled her.

Vows Made by Married Women

30:6 "And if she marries a husband while under a vow, or she uttered 
anything impulsively by which she has pledged herself, 30:7 and her 
husband hears about it, but remains silent about her when he hears about 
it, then her vows will stand and her obligations which she has pledged 
for herself will stand. 30:8 But if when her husband hears it he 
overrules her, then he will nullify the vow she has taken, and whatever 
she uttered impulsively which she has pledged for herself. And the Lord 
will release her from it.

Vows Made by Widows

30:9 "But every vow of a widow or of a divorced woman which she has 
pledged for herself will remain intact. 30:10 If she made the vow in her 
husband's house or put herself under obligation with an oath, 30:11 and 
her husband heard about it, but remained silent about her, and did not 
overrule her, then all her vows will stand, and every obligation which 
she pledged for herself will stand. 30:12 But if her husband clearly 
nullifies them when he hears them, then whatever she says by way of vows 
or obligations will not stand. Her husband has made them void, and the 
Lord will release her from them.

30:13 "Any vow or sworn obligation that would bring affliction to her, 
her husband can confirm or nullify. 30:14 But if her husband remains 
completely silent about her from day to day, he thus confirms all her 
vows or all her obligations which she is under; he confirms them because 
he remained silent about when he heard them. 30:15 But if he should 
nullify them after he has heard them, then he will bear her iniquity."

30:16 These are the statutes that the Lord commanded Moses, relating to 
a man and his wife, and a father and his young daughter who is still 
living in her father's house.



      Prayer


Lord, You have told us that our yes must be our yes and our no our no, 
that we must honor our word. May I be found faithful to keep my word.


      Commentary


The Lord, through Moses, communicated to the elders of the tribes of 
Israel His instructions as to the integrity of a person's word.

The adult male who gave his word was completely bound by it once given.

In matters where a vow or sworn obligation of an unmarried woman, still 
in her father's household, could be over-ruled by her father.

Under the same circumstances and for the same reason a married woman 
could be over-ruled by her husband.

A widow was like an adult male, fully responsible to fulfill her vows 
and oaths, regardless of the consequences; however, if her vows and 
oaths were made while her husband still lived and he had over-ruled her 
then she did not suddenly become responsible for them merely because she 
had become a widow.


      Interaction



        Consider this:

The Lord God made provision for single women and wives to be protected 
from vows and oaths they might make that could cause them affliction 
while they were under the protection of their father or husband.


        Discuss this:

In modern cultures the ability of a father or husband to over-rule an 
adult daughter or wife initially sounds troublesome. When one considers 
the common practice of girls in their early to mid teens marrying, and 
the obligation of the father or husband to protect his daughter or wife, 
doesn't God's context of "... would bring affliction to her" appear to 
be a gift not a burden.?


        Reflect on this:

Once a woman had been married and then widowed the Lord appears to 
anticipate that she was mature enough to make decisions and to be held 
fully accountable for them.


        Share this:

When have you made and oath or a vow, which might bring you affliction, 
which you hoped and prayed someone might over-rule?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be failing to keep your 
word, and where you are.



        Action:

Today I will celebrate those areas of my life where I have been matured 
by the Holy Spirit to partner with Him in faithfulness to my word, no 
matter what. I will also confess those areas where I still struggle with 
that and will ask a fellow believer to be my accountability and prayer 
partner as I move closer to the Holy Spirit in integrity and obedience.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Tuesday's text will be:


      Numbers 31

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From parrisdc at gmail.com  Mon Oct 11 20:11:24 2010
From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:11:24 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Lyricue 3.0.11 Released (and precue 1.10)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimAaLBc57j-B98qUpffbQcTTwSnSrh6D2-CX9KZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimAaLBc57j-B98qUpffbQcTTwSnSrh6D2-CX9KZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin6rAdx952N8Oz6Q69E5hKp2B8LRo1VDwSQbTeJ@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 19:23, Chris Debenham <chris at adebenham.com> wrote:

> G'day all,
> This is just a quick note to announce that I have released version 3.0
> of Lyricue which is a program designed to run the projector screen at
> your church/venue.
> Have a look at www.lyricue.org and https://launchpad.net/lyricue/ for
> details.
>

Blessings to you Chris!

I'm slowing working to introduce Lyricue at the church I'm involved with
here.  Good to hear from you!

Don

> --

D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Mon Oct 11 20:41:14 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:41:14 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Numbers 31
Message-ID: <4CB3AEAA.8020308@bibleseven.com>


    Tuesday


      Numbers 31


The Midianite War

31:1 The Lord spoke to Moses: 31:2 "Exact vengeance for the Israelites 
on the Midianites -- after that you will be gathered to your people."

31:3 So Moses spoke to the people: "Arm men from among you for the war, 
to attack the Midianites and to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian. 
31:4 You must send to the battle a thousand men from every tribe 
throughout all the tribes of Israel." 31:5 So a thousand from every 
tribe, twelve thousand armed for battle in all, were provided out of the 
thousands of Israel.

Campaign Against the Midianites

31:6 So Moses sent them to the war, one thousand from every tribe, with 
Phinehas son of Eleazar the priest, who was in charge of the holy 
articles and the signal trumpets. 31:7 They fought against the 
Midianites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they killed every male. 
31:8 They killed the kings of Midian in addition to those slain -- Evi, 
Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba -- five Midianite kings. They also killed 
Balaam son of Beor with the sword.

31:9 The Israelites took the women of Midian captives along with their 
little ones, and took all their herds, all their flocks, and all their 
goods as plunder. 31:10 They burned all their towns where they lived and 
all their encampments. 31:11 They took all the plunder and all the 
spoils, both people and animals. 31:12 They brought the captives and the 
spoils and the plunder to Moses, to Eleazar the priest, and to the 
Israelite community, to the camp on the plains of Moab, along the Jordan 
River across from Jericho. 31:13 Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the 
leaders of the community went out to meet them outside the camp.

The Death of the Midianite Women

31:14 But Moses was furious with the officers of the army, the 
commanders over thousands and commanders over hundreds, who had come 
from service in the war. 31:15 Moses said to them, "Have you allowed all 
the women to live? 31:16 Look, these people through the counsel of 
Balaam caused the Israelites to act treacherously against the Lord in 
the matter of Peor -- which resulted in the plague among the community 
of the Lord! 31:17 Now therefore kill every boy, and kill every woman 
who has had sexual intercourse with a man. 31:18 But all the young women 
who have not had sexual intercourse with a man will be yours.

Purification After Battle

31:19 "Any of you who has killed anyone or touched any of the dead, 
remain outside the camp for seven days; purify yourselves and your 
captives on the third day, and on the seventh day. 31:20 You must purify 
each garment and everything that is made of skin, everything made of 
goat's hair, and everything made of wood."

31:21 Then Eleazar the priest said to the men of war who had gone into 
the battle, "This is the ordinance of the law that the Lord commanded 
Moses: 31:22 'Only the gold, the silver, the bronze, the iron, the tin, 
and the lead, 31:23 everything that may stand the fire, you are to pass 
through the fire, and it will be ceremonially clean, but it must still 
be purified with the water of purification. Anything that cannot 
withstand the fire you must pass through the water. 31:24 You must wash 
your clothes on the seventh day, and you will be ceremonially clean, and 
afterward you may enter the camp.'"

The Distribution of Spoils

31:25 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 31:26 "You and Eleazar the priest, 
and all the family leaders of the community, take the sum of the plunder 
that was captured, both people and animals. 31:27 Divide the plunder 
into two parts, one for those who took part in the war -- who went out 
to battle -- and the other for all the community.

31:28 "You must exact a tribute for the Lord from the fighting men who 
went out to battle: one life out of five hundred, from the people, the 
cattle, and from the donkeys and the sheep. 31:29 You are to take it 
from their half-share and give it to Eleazar the priest for a raised 
offering to the Lord. 31:30 From the Israelites' half-share you are to 
take one portion out of fifty of the people, the cattle, the donkeys, 
and the sheep -- from every kind of animal -- and you are to give them 
to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the Lord's tabernacle."

31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the Lord commanded Moses. 
31:32 The spoil that remained of the plunder which the fighting men had 
gathered was 675,000 sheep, 31:33 72,000 cattle, 31:34 61,000 donkeys, 
31:35 and 32,000 young women who had never had sexual intercourse with a 
man.

31:36 The half-portion of those who went to war numbered 337,500 sheep; 
31:37 the Lord's tribute from the sheep was 675. 31:38 The cattle 
numbered 36,000; the Lord's tribute was 72. 31:39 The donkeys were 
30,500, of which the Lord's tribute was 61. 31:40 The people were 
16,000, of which the Lord's tribute was 32 people.

31:41 So Moses gave the tribute, which was the Lord's raised offering, 
to Eleazar the priest, as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:42 From the Israelites' half-share that Moses had separated from the 
fighting men, 31:43 there were 337,500 sheep from the portion belonging 
to the community, 31:44 36,000 cattle, 31:45 30,500 donkeys, 31:46 and 
16,000 people.

31:47 From the Israelites' share Moses took one of every fifty people 
and animals and gave them to the Levites who were responsible for the 
care of the Lord's tabernacle, just as the Lord commanded Moses.

31:48 Then the officers who were over the thousands of the army, the 
commanders over thousands and the commanders over hundreds, approached 
Moses 31:49 and said to him, "Your servants have taken a count of the 
men who were in the battle, who were under our authority, and not one is 
missing. 31:50 So we have brought as an offering for the Lord what each 
man found: gold ornaments, armlets, bracelets, signet rings, earrings, 
and necklaces, to make atonement for ourselves before the Lord." 31:51 
Moses and Eleazar the priest took the gold from them, all of it in the 
form of ornaments. 31:52 All the gold of the offering they offered up to 
the Lord from the commanders of thousands and the commanders of hundreds 
weighed 16,750 shekels. 31:53 Each soldier had taken plunder for 
himself. 31:54 So Moses and Eleazar the priest received the gold from 
the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds and brought it 
into the tent of meeting as a memorial for the Israelites before the Lord.



      Prayer


Lord, Your vengeance for the deliberate corruption of Your people is 
perfectly holy and just. May I hold to a view of my duty to defend my 
holiness before you with the same zealotry.


      Commentary


The Lord God instructs Moses that his last act will be to direct the 
Israelites to assemble a military force to serve as His avenging 
punishment of the Midianites for their deliberate efforts to curse and 
then to seduce Israel on behalf of their false pagan god.

Moses requires of each of the twelve tribes 1,000 men and they are sent 
with the priest into battle. God gives them the complete victory and 
they kill every man (soldier) on the field, including the five tribal 
Midianite kings, and destroy their cities.

Balaam, the mercenary sorcerer/priest, had apparently returned to the 
service of the Midianites to advise and assist them in their efforts to 
seduce the Israelites and he also paid with his life for his treachery.

Without permission, as this was a "holy war" of obliteration of evil, 
they take as plunder the women and children, livestock, crops, and 
precious metals. Moses was righteously angry as they had brought the 
evil back with them.

In God's will Moses instructs that every adult woman who was no longer a 
virgin be killed as well as all of the male children. He allows them to 
keep the female children and virgin women.

[The NET translators observe that this was a horrible thing. One must 
look at the judgment of the Israelites of their own when guilty of 
certain crimes -- God has always been most concerned about our spiritual 
well-being over physical status.]

All of the soldiers and their clothing and weapons and spoils had to go 
through the purification rite as the taking of human life made one 
ritually unclean. [Later on King David was denied the privilege of 
building the permanent temple because he had been a man of war.]

The spoils were divided with a portion to the priests, a portion to the 
Israelites who did not fight, and a portion to the soldiers.

Because God had preserved the lives of every one of the 12,000 Israelite 
soldiers their commanders brought a special thanks offering from the 
precious metals they had captured as a memorial.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

The Lord God had little mercy for those who would cooperate with the 
enemy to seduce His people -- they were a troublesome enough lot without 
any outside distractions.


        Discuss this:

Can you see how God viewed the adult men, and the women who had crossed 
the physical, emotional, and spiritual line of intercourse, of being 
guilty of assisting in the attempted seduction of the Israelites on 
behalf of the enemy -- because they were mature enough to make choices? 
In the case of the boys, that they brought the sins of their fathers 
along with them and would become a problem to Israel when they grew 
older? (His intent was that all of the Midianites were to be destroyed 
but once the soldiers had brought many back with them He chose mercy 
because for cultural reasons the female children and virgin-women could 
be safely integrated into the Israelite culture.)


        Reflect on this:

Balaam only refused to curse Israel because God did not allow him to do 
so -- he clearly had no love for Israel and little regard for God.


        Share this:

When have you set out on a task and decided to do things differently 
than instructed? What was the result?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you are compromising with worldly 
influences in your life.



        Action:

Today I will agree with the Holy Spirit and I will mount my own 'holy 
war' against one or more things in my life which draw me away from the 
Lord. I will ask a fellow believer to be my accountability partner and 
my prayer partner as well.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Wednesday's text will be:


      Numbers 32



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From chris at adebenham.com  Mon Oct 11 20:52:21 2010
From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 11:52:21 +1100
Subject: [Linux4christians] Lyricue 3.0.11 Released (and precue 1.10)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTin6rAdx952N8Oz6Q69E5hKp2B8LRo1VDwSQbTeJ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <AANLkTimAaLBc57j-B98qUpffbQcTTwSnSrh6D2-CX9KZ@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTin6rAdx952N8Oz6Q69E5hKp2B8LRo1VDwSQbTeJ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimp3cszRSwMNNGD0TE-sAiUvVJ4XtBez5_E5A_7@mail.gmail.com>

Jump over to the lds-users at lists.sourceforge.net mail alias some time
- that is the best place to go if you get stuck or have any
suggestions ;-)

On 12 October 2010 11:11, Don Parris <parrisdc at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 19:23, Chris Debenham <chris at adebenham.com> wrote:
>>
>> G'day all,
>> This is just a quick note to announce that I have released version 3.0
>> of Lyricue which is a program designed to run the projector screen at
>> your church/venue.
>> Have a look at www.lyricue.org and https://launchpad.net/lyricue/ for
>> details.
>
> Blessings to you Chris!
> I'm slowing working to introduce Lyricue at the church I'm involved with
> here. ?Good to hear from you!
> Don
>>
>> --
>
> D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M
> Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate
> https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris
> http://www.facebook.com/don.parris
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Tue Oct 12 15:53:41 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2010 15:53:41 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Numbers 32
Message-ID: <4CB4BCC5.6080203@bibleseven.com>


    Wednesday


      Numbers 32


The Petition of the Reubenites and Gadites

32:1 Now the Reubenites and the Gadites possessed a very large number of 
cattle. When they saw that the lands of Jazer and Gilead were ideal for 
cattle, 32:2 the Gadites and the Reubenites came and addressed Moses, 
Eleazar the priest, and the leaders of the community. They said, 32:3 
"Ataroth, Dibon, Jazer, Nimrah, Heshbon, Elealeh, Sebam, Nebo, and Beon, 
32:4 the land that the Lord subdued before the community of Israel, is 
ideal for cattle, and your servants have cattle." 32:5 So they said, "If 
we have found favor in your sight, let this land be given to your 
servants for our inheritance. Do not have us cross the Jordan River."

Moses' Response

32:6 Moses said to the Gadites and the Reubenites, "Must your brothers 
go to war while you remain here? 32:7 Why do you frustrate the intent of 
the Israelites to cross over into the land which the Lord has given 
them? 32:8 Your fathers did the same thing when I sent them from Kadesh 
Barnea to see the land. 32:9 When they went up to the Eshcol Valley and 
saw the land, they frustrated the intent of the Israelites so that they 
did not enter the land that the Lord had given them. 32:10 So the anger 
of the Lord was kindled that day, and he swore, 32:11 'Because they have 
not followed me wholeheartedly, not one of the men twenty years old and 
upward who came from Egypt will see the land that I swore to give to 
Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, 32:12 except Caleb son of Jephunneh the 
Kenizzite, and Joshua son of Nun, for they followed the Lord 
wholeheartedly.' 32:13 So the Lord's anger was kindled against the 
Israelites, and he made them wander in the wilderness for forty years, 
until all that generation that had done wickedly before the Lord was 
finished. 32:14 Now look, you are standing in your fathers' place, a 
brood of sinners, to increase still further the fierce wrath of the Lord 
against the Israelites. 32:15 For if you turn away from following him, 
he will once again abandon them in the wilderness, and you will be the 
reason for their destruction."

The Offer of the Reubenites and Gadites

32:16 Then they came very close to him and said, "We will build sheep 
folds here for our flocks and cities for our families, 32:17 but we will 
maintain ourselves in armed readiness and go before the Israelites until 
whenever we have brought them to their place. Our descendants will be 
living in fortified towns as a protection against the inhabitants of the 
land. 32:18 We will not return to our homes until every Israelite has 
his inheritance. 32:19 For we will not accept any inheritance on the 
other side of the Jordan River and beyond, because our inheritance has 
come to us on this eastern side of the Jordan."

32:20 Then Moses replied, "If you will do this thing, and if you will 
arm yourselves for battle before the Lord, 32:21 and if all your armed 
men cross the Jordan before the Lord until he drives out his enemies 
from his presence 32:22 and the land is subdued before the Lord, then 
afterward you may return and be free of your obligation to the Lord and 
to Israel. This land will then be your possession in the Lord's sight.

32:23 "But if you do not do this, then look, you will have sinned 
against the Lord. And know that your sin will find you out. 32:24 So 
build cities for your descendants and pens for your sheep, but do what 
you have said you would do."

32:25 So the Gadites and the Reubenites replied to Moses, "Your servants 
will do as my lord commands. 32:26 Our children, our wives, our flocks, 
and all our livestock will be there in the cities of Gilead, 32:27 but 
your servants will cross over, every man armed for war, to do battle in 
the Lord's presence, just as my lord says."

32:28 So Moses gave orders about them to Eleazar the priest, to Joshua 
son of Nun, and to the heads of the families of the Israelite tribes. 
32:29 Moses said to them: "If the Gadites and the Reubenites cross the 
Jordan with you, each one equipped for battle in the Lord's presence, 
and you conquer the land, then you must allot them the territory of 
Gilead as their possession. 32:30 But if they do not cross over with you 
armed, they must receive possessions among you in Canaan." 32:31 Then 
the Gadites and the Reubenites answered, "Your servants will do what the 
Lord has spoken. 32:32 We will cross armed in the Lord's presence into 
the land of Canaan, and then the possession of our inheritance that we 
inherit will be ours on this side of the Jordan River."

Land Assignment

32:33 So Moses gave to the Gadites, the Reubenites, and to half the 
tribe of Manasseh son of Joseph the realm of King Sihon of the Amorites, 
and the realm of King Og of Bashan, the entire land with its cities and 
the territory surrounding them. 32:34 The Gadites rebuilt Dibon, 
Ataroth, Aroer, 32:35 Atroth Shophan, Jazer, Jogbehah, 32:36 Beth 
Nimrah, and Beth Haran as fortified cities, and constructed pens for 
their flocks. 32:37 The Reubenites rebuilt Heshbon, Elealeh, Kiriathaim, 
32:38 Nebo, Baal Meon (with a change of name), and Sibmah. They renamed 
the cities they built.

32:39 The descendants of Machir son of Manasseh went to Gilead, took it, 
and dispossessed the Amorites who were in it. 32:40 So Moses gave Gilead 
to Machir, son of Manasseh, and he lived there. 32:41 Now Jair son of 
Manasseh went and captured their small towns and named them Havvoth 
Jair. 32:42 Then Nobah went and captured Kenath and its villages and 
called it Nobah after his own name.



      Prayer


Lord, You are a reasonable God Who allows Your people to make choices, 
and ask only that they keep their commitments to You and others. May I 
never forget my obligations to You and to my fellow believers.



      Commentary


The Reubenites and Gadites had a plan -- they liked the grazing lands in 
Gilead on the opposite side of the Jordan River from the promised land.

When they asked Moses if they could have that land instead of what was 
on the other side he angrily challenged them as repeating the rebellion 
of their fathers for refusing to cross the Jordan and to do battle.

The offered to build fortified cities for their women and children and 
livestock then to go with the rest of Israel to conquer the promised 
lands -- and only once everyone else was settled would they return to 
Gilead.

Moses agreed and so instructed the priests, who would oversee the 
division of lands.



      Interaction



        Consider this:

Moses was very sensitive to any sign of tribal fragmentation or rebellion.


        Discuss this:

How convinced must have been the Reubenites and Gadites that the land in 
Gilead was excellent for their cattle that they'd make the deal they did 
with Moses and the rest of the tribes?



        Reflect on this:

Having the Reubenites and Gadites on the opposite side of the Jordan 
would have served as a buffer and early-warning of attack from that side.


        Share this:

When have you identified a somewhat different way to go than the 'crowd' 
and faced some early resistance?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any place where you may be choosing 
a path that causes you to fail to keep your obligations to other believers.



        Action:

Today I will accept the truth revealed by the Holy Spirit and negotiate 
a way that I may follow the path I believe represents the best 
stewardship of the resources and responsibilities given to me by the 
Lord while balancing that with my obligations to the fellowship of 
believers.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________




    Thursday's text will be:


      Numbers 33-34


-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct 13 10:59:14 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2010 22:59:14 +0800
Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Numbers 33-34
Message-ID: <4CB5C942.9090800@bibleseven.com>


    Thursday


      Numbers 33-34


Wanderings from Egypt to Sinai

33:1 These are the journeys of the Israelites, who went out of the land 
of Egypt by their divisions under the authority of Moses and Aaron. 33:2 
Moses recorded their departures according to their journeys, by the 
commandment of the Lord; now these are their journeys according to their 
departures. 33:3 They departed from Rameses in the first month, on the 
fifteenth day of the first month; on the day after the Passover the 
Israelites went out defiantly in plain sight of all the Egyptians. 33:4 
Now the Egyptians were burying all their firstborn, whom the Lord had 
killed among them; the Lord also executed judgments on their gods.

33:5 The Israelites traveled from Rameses and camped in Succoth.

33:6 They traveled from Succoth, and camped in Etham, which is on the 
edge of the wilderness. 33:7 They traveled from Etham, and turned again 
to Pi-hahiroth, which is before Baal-Zephon; and they camped before 
Migdal. 33:8 They traveled from Pi-hahiroth, and passed through the 
middle of the sea into the wilderness, and went three days' journey in 
the wilderness of Etham, and camped in Marah. 33:9 They traveled from 
Marah and came to Elim; in Elim there are twelve fountains of water and 
seventy palm trees, so they camped there.

33:10 They traveled from Elim, and camped by the Red Sea. 33:11 They 
traveled from the Red Sea and camped in the wilderness of Zin. 33:12 
They traveled from the wilderness of Zin and camped in Dophkah. 33:13 
And they traveled from Dophkah, and camped in Alush.

33:14 They traveled from Alush and camped at Rephidim, where there was 
no water for the people to drink. 33:15 They traveled from Rephidim and 
camped in the wilderness of Sinai.

Wanderings in the Wilderness

33:16 They traveled from the desert of Sinai and camped at Kibroth 
Hattaavah. 33:17 They traveled from Kibroth Hattaavah and camped at 
Hazeroth. 33:18 They traveled from Hazeroth and camped in Rithmah. 33:19 
They traveled from Rithmah and camped at Rimmon-perez. 33:20 They 
traveled from Rimmon-perez and camped in Libnah. 33:21 They traveled 
from Libnah and camped at Rissah. 33:22 They traveled from Rissah and 
camped in Kehelathah. 33:23 They traveled from Kehelathah and camped at 
Mount Shepher. 33:24 They traveled from Mount Shepher and camped in 
Haradah. 33:25 They traveled from Haradah and camped in Makheloth. 33:26 
They traveled from Makheloth and camped at Tahath. 33:27 They traveled 
from Tahath and camped at Terah. 33:28 They traveled from Terah and 
camped in Mithcah. 33:29 They traveled from Mithcah and camped in 
Hashmonah. 33:30 They traveled from Hashmonah and camped in Moseroth. 
33:31 They traveled from Moseroth and camped in Bene-jaakan. 33:32 They 
traveled from Bene-jaakan and camped at Hor-haggidgad. 33:33 They 
traveled from Hor-haggidgad and camped in Jotbathah. 33:34 They traveled 
from Jotbathah and camped in Abronah. 33:35 They traveled from Abronah 
and camped at Ezion-geber. 33:36 They traveled from Ezion-geber and 
camped in the wilderness of Zin, which is Kadesh.

Wanderings from Kadesh to Moab

33:37 They traveled from Kadesh and camped in Mount Hor at the edge of 
the land of Edom. 33:38 Aaron the priest ascended Mount Hor at the 
command of the Lord, and he died there in the fortieth year after the 
Israelites had come out of the land of Egypt on the first day of the 
fifth month. 33:39 Now Aaron was 123 years old when he died in Mount 
Hor. 33:40 The king of Arad, the Canaanite king who lived in the south 
of the land of Canaan, heard about the approach of the Israelites.

33:41 They traveled from Mount Hor and camped in Zalmonah. 33:42 They 
traveled from Zalmonah and camped in Punon. 33:43 They traveled from 
Punon and camped in Oboth. 33:44 They traveled from Oboth and camped in 
Iye-abarim, on the border of Moab. 33:45 They traveled from Iim and 
camped in Dibon-gad. 33:46 They traveled from Dibon-gad and camped in 
Almon-diblathaim. 33:47 They traveled from Almon-diblathaim and camped 
in the mountains of Abarim before Nebo. 33:48 They traveled from the 
mountains of Abarim and camped in the plains of Moab by the Jordan River 
across from Jericho. 33:49 They camped by the Jordan, from 
Beth-jeshimoth as far as Abel-shittim in the plains of Moab.

At the Border of Canaan

33:50 The Lord spoke to Moses in the plains of Moab by the Jordan, 
across from Jericho. He said: 33:51 "Speak to the Israelites and tell 
them, 'When you have crossed the Jordan into the land of Canaan, 33:52 
you must drive out all the inhabitants of the land before you. Destroy 
all their carved images, all their molten images, and demolish their 
high places. 33:53 You must dispossess the inhabitants of the land and 
live in it, for I have given you the land to possess it. 33:54 You must 
divide the land by lot for an inheritance among your families. To a 
larger group you must give a larger inheritance, and to a smaller group 
you must give a smaller inheritance. Everyone's inheritance must be in 
the place where his lot falls. You must inherit according to your 
ancestral tribes. 33:55 But if you do not drive out the inhabitants of 
the land before you, then those whom you allow to remain will be 
irritants in your eyes and thorns in your side, and will cause you 
trouble in the land where you will be living. 33:56 And what I intended 
to do to them I will do to you."

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=34 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Num&chapter=34>




      Prayer


Lord, Your power is beyond any other, Your judgments and plans beyond 
challenge, and Your love for those who obey You is expressed in ways 
beyond human expectation. May I trust and obey You more each day.


      Commentary


Moses reviewed the history of the travels of the Israelites since the 
Exodus. He noted that God not only brought mortal-judgment upon the 
Egyptians, by taking their first born sons, He also "executed judgments" 
upon those agents of the enemy who served as their false gods.

The Lord God instructed Moses to tell the Israelites to drive out all 
the inhabitants of the land, destroy all their idols and temples. To 
divide the land by lots. To inherit according to ancestral tribe.

The Lord God warned that if they fail to do as instructed those whom 
they allow to remain would "... be irritants in your eyes and thorns in 
your side, and will cause you trouble in the land where you will be 
living. And what I intended to do to them I will do to you."


      Interaction


        Consider this:

The Lord God has always been very clear as to His expectations, it is 
man and not God who has complicated the simple.


        Discuss this:

Given the very simple and direct instructions of God, His promise of 
blessing for obedience, and His warning of negative consequences for 
disobedience, why would the Israelites choose to be disobedient?



        Reflect on this:

Even though God desires to bless humankind in order to have a 
relationship that is genuine He repeatedly offers choices, knowing that 
humankind will often choose unwisely, yet holding to His plan to gather 
only those who freely choose relationship with Him to Himself for eternity.


        Share this:

When have you been confronted with different paths, yet knowing the 
positive benefits of one path you have recklessly chosen another and 
suffered the ill-consequences?


      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the place in your life that He most 
wants you to choose to turn toward God and away from the world.



        Action:

Today I will obey the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I will repent of my 
wrong choices and will rather follow the path He directs, no matter the 
cost. I will share my decision, seemingly great or small in the eyes of 
the world, with a fellow believer and ask them to pray in-agreement for 
my Holy Spirit-empowered perseverance.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________


    Friday's text will be:


      Numbers 35



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Thu Oct 14 03:52:11 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2010 15:52:11 +0800
Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Numbers 35
Message-ID: <4CB6B6AB.207@bibleseven.com>


    Friday


      Numbers 35


The Levitical Cities

35:1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses in the Moabite plains by the Jordan 
near Jericho. He said: 35:2 "Instruct the Israelites to give the Levites 
towns to live in from the inheritance the Israelites will possess. You 
must also give the Levites grazing land around the towns. 35:3 Thus they 
will have towns in which to live, and their grazing lands will be for 
their cattle, for their possessions, and for all their animals. 35:4 The 
grazing lands around the towns that you will give to the Levites must 
extend to a distance of 500 yards from the town wall.

35:5 "You must measure from outside the wall of the town on the east 
1,000 yards, and on the south side 1,000 yards, and on the west side 
1,000 yards, and on the north side 1,000 yards, with the town in the 
middle. This territory must belong to them as grazing land for the 
towns. 35:6 Now from these towns that you will give to the Levites you 
must select six towns of refuge to which a person who has killed someone 
may flee. And you must give them forty-two other towns.

35:7 "So the total of the towns you will give the Levites is 
forty-eight. You must give these together with their grazing lands. 35:8 
The towns you will give must be from the possession of the Israelites. 
 From the larger tribes you must give more; and from the smaller tribes 
fewer. Each must contribute some of its own towns to the Levites in 
proportion to the inheritance allocated to each.

The Cities of Refuge

35:9 Then the Lord spoke to Moses: 35:10 "Speak to the Israelites and 
tell them, 'When you cross over the Jordan River into the land of 
Canaan, 35:11 you must then designate some towns as towns of refuge for 
you, to which a person who has killed someone unintentionally may flee. 
35:12 And they must stand as your towns of refuge from the avenger in 
order that the killer may not die until he has stood trial before the 
community. 35:13 These towns that you must give shall be your six towns 
for refuge.

35:14 "You must give three towns on this side of the Jordan, and you 
must give three towns in the land of Canaan; they must be towns of 
refuge. 35:15 These six towns will be places of refuge for the 
Israelites, and for the foreigner, and for the settler among them, so 
that anyone who kills any person accidentally may flee there.

35:16 "But if he hits someone with an iron tool so that he dies, he is a 
murderer. The murderer must surely be put to death. 35:17 If he strikes 
him by throwing a stone large enough that he could die, and he dies, he 
is a murderer. The murderer must surely be put to death. 35:18 Or if he 
strikes him with a wooden hand weapon so that he could die, and he dies, 
he is a murderer. The murderer must surely be put to death. 35:19 The 
avenger of blood himself must kill the murderer; when he meets him, he 
must kill him.

35:20 "But if he strikes him out of hatred or throws something at him 
intentionally so that he dies, 35:21 or with enmity he strikes him with 
his hand and he dies, the one who struck him must surely be put to 
death, for he is a murderer. The avenger of blood must kill the murderer 
when he meets him.

35:22 "But if he strikes him suddenly, without enmity, or throws 
anything at him unintentionally, 35:23 or with any stone large enough 
that a man could die, without seeing him, and throws it at him, and he 
dies, even though he was not his enemy nor sought his harm, 35:24 then 
the community must judge between the slayer and the avenger of blood 
according to these decisions. 35:25 The community must deliver the 
slayer out of the hand of the avenger of blood, and the community must 
restore him to the town of refuge to which he fled, and he must live 
there until the death of the high priest, who was anointed with the 
consecrated oil. 35:26 But if the slayer at any time goes outside the 
boundary of the town to which he had fled, 35:27 and the avenger of 
blood finds him outside the borders of the town of refuge, and the 
avenger of blood kills the slayer, he will not be guilty of blood, 35:28 
because the slayer should have stayed in his town of refuge until the 
death of the high priest. But after the death of the high priest, the 
slayer may return to the land of his possessions. 35:29 So these things 
must be a statutory ordinance for you throughout your generations, in 
all the places where you live.

35:30 "Whoever kills any person, the murderer must be put to death by 
the testimony of witnesses; but one witness cannot testify against any 
person to cause him to be put to death. 35:31 Moreover, you must not 
accept a ransom for the life of a murderer who is guilty of death; he 
must surely be put to death. 35:32 And you must not accept a ransom for 
anyone who has fled to a town of refuge, to allow him to return home and 
live on his own land before the death of the high priest.

35:33 "You must not pollute the land where you live, for blood defiles 
the land, and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed 
there, except by the blood of the person who shed it. 35:34 Therefore do 
not defile the land that you will inhabit, in which I live, for I the 
Lord live among the Israelites."




      Prayer


Lord, Your define true justice and You provide a way for man's rage to 
be diverted long enough for justice to prevail. May I always remember to 
consult You first before acting from emotion.


      Commentary


The Lord God instructed the Israelites, through Moses, to provide land 
for the Levites in which to live and to keep their animals.

He also provided for six cities of refuge so that those whose 
disputed-guilt in the death of another might have a safe place to await 
evaluation, or to wait-out the death of the current high priest.

Three of the cities of refuge would be located on one side of the Jordan 
and three in the land of Canaan.

In an obvious case of intentional-murder a relative was free to kill the 
murderer, but in an accidental death the accused was to go to a city of 
refuge and could not be harmed unless they left that city before the 
current high priest died -- at which time they were not to be harmed 
anywhere.

God's stated goal was to keep murder in promised land from making it 
unclean, especially since He - rhetorically - dwelt among His people in 
the land in the tabernacle.


      Interaction


        Consider this:

The Lord God drew a careful distinction in the death of a person between 
intent and accident, so that the punishment suited the crime, and that 
the bereaved did not themselves commit murder in their grief-driven-rage.


        Discuss this:

While the cities of refuge were distributed so that people had quick 
access to them, it must have sometimes been a footrace to see if the 
accused could make it there before a family member killed him. What 
might have been the environment in the cities of refuge as the numbers 
of accused murderers multiplied?


        Reflect on this:

God made the bereaved His tools of justice when someone was deliberately 
murdered while protecting them from sinning in their anger.



        Share this:

When have you been so angry that you sinned in that anger?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you where you tend to sin in your anger.



        Action:

Today I will confess and repent of sinning in my anger. I will request 
and accept the forgiveness of God, and also of the one(s) against whom I 
have sinned (am sinning). I will pray in the morning every day for the 
Holy Spirit to warn me each time my anger begins to rise so that I may 
stop and pray and regain control before I sin again.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Saturday's text will be:


      Numbers 36



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Fri Oct 15 22:59:16 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2010 22:59:16 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Numbers 36
Message-ID: <4CB91504.8070706@bibleseven.com>



    Saturday


      Numbers 36


Women and Land Inheritance

36:1 Then the heads of the family groups of the Gileadites, the 
descendant of Machir*,* the descendant of Manasseh, who were from the 
Josephite families, approached and spoke before Moses and the leaders 
who were the heads of the Israelite families. 36:2 They said, "The Lord 
commanded my lord to give the land as an inheritance by lot to the 
Israelites; and my lord was commanded by the Lord to give the 
inheritance of our brother Zelophehad to his daughters. 36:3 Now if they 
should be married to one of the men from another Israelite tribe, their 
inheritance would be taken from the inheritance of our fathers and added 
to the inheritance of the tribe into which they marry. As a result, it 
will be taken from the lot of our inheritance. 36:4 And when the Jubilee 
of the Israelites is to take place, their inheritance will be added to 
the inheritance of the tribe into which they marry. So their inheritance 
will be taken away from the inheritance of our ancestral tribe."

Moses' Decision

36:5 Then Moses gave a ruling to the Israelites by the word of the Lord: 
"What the tribe of the Josephites is saying is right. 36:6 This is what 
the Lord has commanded for Zelophehad's daughters: 'Let them marry 
whomever they think best, only they must marry within the family of 
their father's tribe. 36:7 In this way the inheritance of the Israelites 
will not be transferred from tribe to tribe. But every one of the 
Israelites must retain the ancestral heritage. 36:8 And every daughter 
who possesses an inheritance from any of the tribes of the Israelites 
must become the wife of a man from any family in her father's tribe, so 
that every Israelite may retain the inheritance of his fathers. 36:9 No 
inheritance may pass from tribe to tribe. But every one of the tribes of 
the Israelites must retain its inheritance."

36:10 As the Lord had commanded Moses, so the daughters of Zelophehad 
did. 36:11 For the daughters of Zelophehad -- Mahlah, Tirzah, Hoglah, 
Milcah, and Noah -- were married to the sons of their uncles. 36:12 They 
were married into the families of the Manassehites, the descendants of 
Joseph, and their inheritance remained in the tribe of their father's 
family.

36:13 These are the commandments and the decisions that the Lord 
commanded the Israelites through the authority of Moses, on the plains 
of Moab by the Jordan River opposite Jericho.



      Prayer


Lord, You protect our inheritance. May I always be grateful that by Your 
grace my inheritance is with Jesus the Christ and so with You.


      Commentary


Women whose ancestry traced back to Joseph had previously been promised 
that were there no male born to their father that his inheritance would 
pass to them and not a non-family member. Moses had consulted with God 
and affirmed that they should receive the inheritance.

Their new question addressed the disposition of their inheritance if 
they were to marry someone outside of their tribe. Again Moses consulted 
with God and His priority was that that an inheritance remain with a 
tribe, therefore women were required to marry within their tribe so that 
their inheritance would not be displaced.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

When they were very young these same women were concerned about the 
challenge of the moment; their father had died without a son and 
tradition did not provide for a daughter to inherit, now they are 
contemplating marriage and are concerned about the impact of that on the 
family inheritance.


        Discuss this:

While these women were concerned about maintaining the line of family 
inheritance, how might they deal with a choice between a husband from 
another tribe and protecting the inheritance?



        Reflect on this:

These women were required to make a sacrifice, they were limited -- for 
husbands - to only the men within their tribe.


        Share this:

When have you discovered that the answer to a problem in the past 
created a new challenge in the future?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may need to sacrifice an 
option or opportunity in order to meet your responsibilities in another 
area?


        Action:

Today I will give thanks that the Lord entrusts me with the freedom to 
make choices and will pray for wisdom. Where I must make a decision that 
requires sacrifice I will do so in consultation with the Word, in 
prayer, and in consultation with those whom the Bible acknowledges as 
"elders". I will share my decision making process with a fellow believer 
as a testimony to the power of the Holy Spirit to guide and empower 
those who are His.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________


Sunday's text will be: Deuteronomy 1-3

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct 16 22:34:17 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2010 22:34:17 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Deuteronomy 1-3
Message-ID: <4CBA60A9.609@bibleseven.com>


    Sunday


      Deuteronomy 1-3


http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=1#n12 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=1#n12>

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=2#n52 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=2#n52>

http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=3#n43 
<http://net.bible.org/bible.php?book=Deu&chapter=3#n43>




      Prayer


Lord, I am in awe of Your patience and Your provision as I read Your 
history with the Israelites during their post-exodus travels.


      Commentary


The Covenant Setting

The Lord God leads Moses to review the recent history of the Israelites 
as they paused in their travels in the "transjordanian wasteland", which 
the NET translators clarify as ones perspective from anywhere within 
view of the Jordan river valley, in this specific case, Moab.


Events at Horeb

Moses recalled that the Lord God instructed the nation of Israel to 
remain no longer at the mountain and begin their travel to the promised 
land.

Instructions at Kadesh Barnea

Moses recalled that they spied-out the promised land and discovered that 
it was a very fertile and beautiful land, just as God had promised.

Disobedience at Kadesh Barnea

Moses recalled that instead of stepping-out in faith to take the 
promised land the people were instead incited to fear and refused to 
enter. Despite all of the evidence of power and provision and protection 
from the Lord God they rebelled.

Judgment at Kadesh Barnea

Moses recalled that all of the adult males (elsewhere labeled "military 
men") who incited the rebellion and all who followed (only Caleb and 
Joshua did not rebel) were condemned to die in the wilderness.

Unsuccessful Conquest of Canaan

Moses recalled that when they heard God's judgment some of those who had 
rebelled attacked the Amorites, without God, and were devastated by them.

The Journey from Kadesh Barnea to Moab

Moses recalled that they spent 38 years wandering in the wilderness.

Instructions Concerning Ammon

Moses recalled that God redirected them so that He could challenge them 
to defeat and dispossess the Amorites.

Defeat of Sihon, King of Heshbon

Moses recalled that despite efforts to negotiate Sihon attacked and the 
Lord delivered them into the hands of Israel.

Defeat of King Og of Bashan

Moses recalled that Og attacked and the Lord delivered them into the 
hands of Israel.

Distribution of the Transjordanian Allotments

Moses recalled that some of the tribal nation requested prime grazing 
land in view of the promised land but on the opposite side from the 
rest. This was granted.

Instructions to the Transjordanian Tribes

Moses recalled that they agreed to provide military support for the 
conquest of the rest before settling in their new land.

Denial to Moses of the Promised Land

Moses recalled that the Lord God denied him physical entry into the 
promised land because of the chronic rebellion of the people.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

The Lord God, as recorded in the text of chapter 2, was also involved in 
the change of national control of other lands.


        Discuss this:

Why would Moses repeat all of this history?



        Reflect on this:

When recalling that the Lord God would not allow him physical entry into 
the promised land Moses blamed the people's chronic rebellion. He 
neglected to note in the Deuteronomy text that he has chosen to sin in 
his anger and that was the specific moment that God said he would not 
enter the land.


        Share this:

When have you found it valuable to review your history with God prior to 
making an important decision?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to remind you of God's faithfulness in your life.



        Action:

Today I will share my story of God's faithfulness in my life with a 
fellow believer and together we will celebrate.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Monday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 4



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sun Oct 17 21:32:44 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2010 21:32:44 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Deuteronomy 4
Message-ID: <4CBBA3BC.8020000@bibleseven.com>


    Monday


      Deuteronomy 4


The Privileges of the Covenant

4:1 Now, Israel, pay attention to the statutes and ordinances I am about 
to teach you, so that you might live and go on to enter and take 
possession of the land that the Lord, the God of your ancestors, is 
giving you. 4:2 Do not add a thing to what I command you nor subtract 
from it, so that you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that 
I am delivering to you. 4:3 You have witnessed what the Lord did at Baal 
Peor, how he eradicated from your midst everyone who followed Baal Peor. 
4:4 But you who remained faithful to the Lord your God are still alive 
to this very day, every one of you. 4:5 Look! I have taught you statutes 
and ordinances just as the Lord my God told me to do, so that you might 
carry them out in the land you are about to enter and possess. 4:6 So be 
sure to do them, because this will testify of your wise understanding to 
the people who will learn of all these statutes and say, "Indeed, this 
great nation is a very wise people." 4:7 In fact, what other great 
nation has a god so near to them like the Lord our God whenever we call 
on him? 4:8 And what other great nation has statutes and ordinances as 
just as this whole law that I am about to share with you today?

Reminder of the Horeb Covenant

4:9 Again, however, pay very careful attention, lest you forget the 
things you have seen and disregard them for the rest of your life; 
instead teach them to your children and grandchildren. 4:10 You stood 
before the Lord your God at Horeb and he said to me, "Assemble the 
people before me so that I can tell them my commands. Then they will 
learn to revere me all the days they live in the land, and they will 
instruct their children." 4:11 You approached and stood at the foot of 
the mountain, a mountain ablaze to the sky above it and yet dark with a 
thick cloud. 4:12 Then the Lord spoke to you from the middle of the 
fire; you heard speech but you could not see anything -- only a voice 
was heard. 4:13 And he revealed to you the covenant he has commanded you 
to keep, the ten commandments, writing them on two stone tablets. 4:14 
Moreover, at that same time the Lord commanded me to teach you statutes 
and ordinances for you to keep in the land which you are about to enter 
and possess.

The Nature of Israel's God

4:15 Be very careful, then, because you saw no form at the time the Lord 
spoke to you at Horeb from the middle of the fire. 4:16 I say this so 
you will not corrupt yourselves by making an image in the form of any 
kind of figure. This includes the likeness of a human male or female, 
4:17 any kind of land animal, any bird that flies in the sky, 4:18 
anything that crawls on the ground, or any fish in the deep waters of 
the earth. 4:19 When you look up to the sky and see the sun, moon, and 
stars -- the whole heavenly creation -- you must not be seduced to 
worship and serve them, for the Lord your God has assigned them to all 
the people of the world. 4:20 You, however, the Lord has selected and 
brought from Egypt, that iron-smelting furnace, to be his special people 
as you are today. 4:21 But the Lord became angry with me because of you 
and vowed that I would never cross the Jordan nor enter the good land 
that he is about to give you. 4:22 So I must die here in this land; I 
will not cross the Jordan. But you are going over and will possess that 
good land. 4:23 Be on guard so that you do not forget the covenant of 
the Lord your God that he has made with you, and that you do not make an 
image of any kind, just as he has forbidden you. 4:24 For the Lord your 
God is a consuming fire; he is a jealous God.

Threat and Blessing following Covenant Disobedience

4:25 After you have produced children and grandchildren and have been in 
the land a long time, if you become corrupt and make an image of any 
kind and do other evil things before the Lord your God that enrage him, 
4:26 I invoke heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that you 
will surely and swiftly be removed from the very land you are about to 
cross the Jordan to possess. You will not last long there because you 
will surely be annihilated. 4:27 Then the Lord will scatter you among 
the peoples and there will be very few of you among the nations where 
the Lord will drive you. 4:28 There you will worship gods made by human 
hands -- wood and stone that can neither see, hear, eat, nor smell. 4:29 
But if you seek the Lord your God from there, you will find him, if, 
indeed, you seek him with all your heart and soul. 4:30 In your distress 
when all these things happen to you in the latter days, if you return to 
the Lord your God and obey him 4:31 (for he is a merciful God), he will 
not let you down or destroy you, for he cannot forget the covenant with 
your ancestors that he confirmed by oath to them.

The Uniqueness of Israel's God

4:32 Indeed, ask about the distant past, starting from the day God 
created humankind on the earth, and ask from one end of heaven to the 
other, whether there has ever been such a great thing as this, or even a 
rumor of it. 4:33 Have a people ever heard the voice of God speaking 
from the middle of fire, as you yourselves have, and lived to tell about 
it? 4:34 Or has God ever before tried to deliver a nation from the 
middle of another nation, accompanied by judgments, signs, wonders, war, 
strength, power, and other very terrifying things like the Lord your God 
did for you in Egypt before your very eyes? 4:35 You have been taught 
that the Lord alone is God -- there is no other besides him. 4:36 From 
heaven he spoke to you in order to teach you, and on earth he showed you 
his great fire from which you also heard his words. 4:37 Moreover, 
because he loved your ancestors, he chose their descendants who followed 
them and personally brought you out of Egypt with his great power 4:38 
to dispossess nations greater and stronger than you and brought you here 
this day to give you their land as your property. 4:39 Today realize and 
carefully consider that the Lord is God in heaven above and on earth 
below -- there is no other! 4:40 Keep his statutes and commandments that 
I am setting forth today so that it may go well with you and your 
descendants and that you may enjoy longevity in the land that the Lord 
your God is about to give you as a permanent possession.

The Narrative Concerning Cities of Refuge

4:41 Then Moses selected three cities in the Transjordan, toward the 
east. 4:42 Anyone who accidentally killed someone without hating him at 
the time of the accident could flee to one of those cities and be safe. 
4:43 These cities are Bezer, in the desert plateau, for the Reubenites; 
Ramoth in Gilead for the Gadites; and Golan in Bashan for the Manassehites.

The Setting and Introduction of the Covenant

4:44 This is the law that Moses set before the Israelites. 4:45 These 
are the stipulations, statutes, and ordinances that Moses spoke to the 
Israelites after he had brought them out of Egypt, 4:46 in the 
Transjordan, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, in the land of King Sihon 
of the Amorites, who lived in Heshbon. (It is he whom Moses and the 
Israelites attacked after they came out of Egypt. 4:47 They possessed 
his land and that of King Og of Bashan -- both of whom were Amorite 
kings in the Transjordan, to the east. 4:48 Their territory extended 
from Aroer at the edge of the Arnon valley as far as Mount Siyon -- that 
is, Hermon -- 4:49 including all the Arabah of the Transjordan in the 
east to the sea of the Arabah, beneath the watershed of Pisgah.)



      Prayer



Lord, what You teach us is always important and must be remembered. May 
I continue to write Your Word on my heart and gain wisdom for living 
from it.


      Commentary


The Lord God commanded the people, through Moses, to ad or subtract 
nothing but to remember and obey all that he [He] was telling them.

He warned them that it was necessary for them to "... live and go on to 
enter and take possession of the land ..."

As for the statutes and ordinances they were to carry them out "... 
because this will testify of your wise understanding to the people ..."

They were to "teach them to ... [their] ... your children and 
grandchildren."

They were warned that God is a jealous and consuming God so to avoid 
making or worshiping idols.

They were warned that if they drifted into idolatry God would drive them 
far away from the land into the hands of pagans and they would for a 
time be subject to false gods, but not forgotten or abandoned.

They were reminded that since the beginning of time what God had done 
for them had never been done for anyone anywhere.

They were reminded of the cities of refuge and of the context of the 
covenant.



      Interaction



        Consider this:


        What they were told about themselves, about God, about His
        expectations of them, about His promises, and about His warnings
        was to be unchanged and lived-out faithfully.


        Discuss this:

How special in all of history must they have felt, hearing that nothing 
had ever been done by God, as had been done for them?


        Reflect on this:

If they rebelled and brought idolatry into the promised land then God 
would banish them, as in Eden, and subject them to those false Gods and 
those pagan worshipers.



        Share this:

When have you forgotten the many blessings of God and acted in rebellion 
against His teachings?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to remember one of God's 
teachings.


        Action:

Today I will read and meditate upon the Word God has given me. I will 
pray and seek understanding so that my knowledge and understanding will 
become wisdom. I will then apply that wisdom to my life. I will share 
what God does for me with a fellow believer and together we will 
celebrate His gift to me.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Tuesday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 5




-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Mon Oct 18 21:29:22 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2010 21:29:22 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Deuteronomy 5
Message-ID: <4CBCF472.8040004@bibleseven.com>


    Tuesday


      Deuteronomy 5


The Opening Exhortation

5:1 Then Moses called all the people of Israel together and said to 
them: "Listen, Israel, to the statutes and ordinances that I am about to 
deliver to you today; learn them and be careful to keep them! 5:2 The 
Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. 5:3 He did not make this 
covenant with our ancestors but with us, we who are here today, all of 
us living now. 5:4 The Lord spoke face to face with you at the mountain, 
from the middle of the fire. 5:5 (I was standing between the Lord and 
you at that time to reveal to you the message of the Lord, because you 
were afraid of the fire and would not go up the mountain.) He said:

The Ten Commandments

5:6 "I am the Lord your God, he who brought you from the land of Egypt, 
from the place of slavery. 5:7 You must not have any other gods besides 
me. 5:8 You must not make for yourself an image of anything in heaven 
above, on earth below, or in the waters beneath. 5:9 You must not 
worship or serve them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God. I 
punish the sons, grandsons, and great-grandsons for the sin of the 
fathers who reject me, 5:10 but I show covenant faithfulness to the 
thousands who choose me and keep my commandments. 5:11 You must not make 
use of the name of the Lord your God for worthless purposes, for the 
Lord will not exonerate anyone who abuses his name that way. 5:12 Be 
careful to observe the Sabbath day just as the Lord your God has 
commanded you. 5:13 You are to work and do all your tasks in six days, 
5:14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. On that 
day you must not do any work, you, your son, your daughter, your male 
slave, your female slave, your ox, your donkey, any other animal, or the 
foreigner who lives with you, so that your male and female slaves, like 
yourself, may have rest. 5:15 Recall that you were slaves in the land of 
Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there by strength 
and power. That is why the Lord your God has commanded you to observe 
the Sabbath day. 5:16 Honor your father and your mother just as the Lord 
your God has commanded you to do, so that your days may be extended and 
that it may go well with you in the land that he is about to give you. 
5:17 You must not murder. 5:18 You must not commit adultery. 5:19 You 
must not steal. 5:20 You must not offer false testimony against another. 
5:21 You must not desire another man's wife, nor should you crave his 
house, his field, his male and female servants, his ox, his donkey, or 
anything else he owns."

The Narrative of the Sinai Revelation and Israel's Response

5:22 The Lord said these things to your entire assembly at the mountain 
from the middle of the fire, the cloud, and the darkness with a loud 
voice, and that was all he said. Then he inscribed the words on two 
stone tablets and gave them to me. 5:23 Then, when you heard the voice 
from the midst of the darkness while the mountain was ablaze, all your 
tribal leaders and elders approached me. 5:24 You said, "The Lord our 
God has shown us his great glory and we have heard him speak from the 
middle of the fire. It is now clear to us that God can speak to human 
beings and they can keep on living. 5:25 But now, why should we die, 
because this intense fire will consume us! If we keep hearing the voice 
of the Lord our God we will die! 5:26 Who is there from the entire human 
race who has heard the voice of the living God speaking from the middle 
of the fire as we have, and has lived? 5:27 You go near so that you can 
hear everything the Lord our God is saying and then you can tell us 
whatever he says to you; then we will pay attention and do it." 5:28 
When the Lord heard you speaking to me, he said to me, "I have heard 
what these people have said to you -- they have spoken well. 5:29 If 
only it would really be their desire to fear me and obey all my 
commandments in the future, so that it may go well with them and their 
descendants forever. 5:30 Go and tell them, 'Return to your tents!' 5:31 
But as for you, remain here with me so I can declare to you all the 
commandments, statutes, and ordinances that you are to teach them, so 
that they can carry them out in the land I am about to give them." 5:32 
Be careful, therefore, to do exactly what the Lord your God has 
commanded you; do not turn right or left! 5:33 Walk just as he has 
commanded you so that you may live, that it may go well with you, and 
that you may live long in the land you are going to possess.



      Prayer


Lord, You initiate covenant and ask us to respond in faithful trust and 
obedience. May I be found to be honoring Your new covenant with me.


      Commentary


Moses reminded the people that God's covenant with them was not the one 
made with Abraham or anyone else but directly with them, via him, and 
very recently at Horeb.

He reminded them that they were expected to learn and obey the terms of 
the covenant.

He reminded them that although near to God and the holy fire of His 
presence they were not consumed, and that even he had been allowed to 
approach more-closely, and still had not been harmed.

He reminded them that the Lord God desired to bless them and that their 
responsibility was to obey.



      Interaction



        Consider this:

Theirs was a new covenant, one made just with them, and one they entered 
voluntarily.


        Discuss this:

Once Moses had reviewed the Commandments and the rest of the covenant 
how could the Israelites ever claim that they had an excuse for 
disobedience?



        Reflect on this:

With knowledge of God's expectations comes the responsibility to obey.


        Share this:

When have you know the right thing to do but chosen to do otherwise?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you what part of His Word you need to 
study, and obey, more closely.



        Action:

Today I will take the time to pray, read, and pray again as I obtain 
greater knowledge of the Word of God and then allow the Holy Spirit to 
lead me to understanding. I will then apply His revealed wisdom to my 
life. I will share that experience with a fellow believer.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Wednesday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 6



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct 20 00:00:15 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 00:00:15 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Deuteronomy 6
Message-ID: <4CBE694F.90007@bibleseven.com>


    Wednesday


      Deuteronomy 6


Exhortation to Keep the Covenant Principles

6:1 Now these are the commandments, statutes, and ordinances that the 
Lord your God instructed me to teach you so that you may carry them out 
in the land where you are headed 6:2 and that you may so revere the Lord 
your God that you will keep all his statutes and commandments that I am 
giving you -- you, your children, and your grandchildren -- all your 
lives, to prolong your days. 6:3 Pay attention, Israel, and be careful 
to do this so that it may go well with you and that you may increase 
greatly in number -- as the Lord, God of your ancestors, said to you, 
you will have a land flowing with milk and honey.

The Essence of the Covenant Principles

6:4 Listen, Israel: The Lord is our God, the Lord is one! 6:5 You must 
love the Lord your God with your whole mind, your whole being, and all 
your strength.

Exhortation to Teach the Covenant Principles

6:6 These words I am commanding you today must be kept in mind, 6:7 and 
you must teach them to your children and speak of them as you sit in 
your house, as you walk along the road, as you lie down, and as you get 
up. 6:8 You should tie them as a reminder on your forearm and fasten 
them as symbols on your forehead. 6:9 Inscribe them on the doorframes of 
your houses and gates.

Exhortation to Worship the Lord Exclusively

6:10 Then when the Lord your God brings you to the land he promised your 
ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob to give you -- a land with large, 
fine cities you did not build, 6:11 houses filled with choice things you 
did not accumulate, hewn out cisterns you did not dig, and vineyards and 
olive groves you did not plant -- and you eat your fill, 6:12 be careful 
not to forget the Lord who brought you out of Egypt, that place of 
slavery. 6:13 You must revere the Lord your God, serve him, and take 
oaths using only his name. 6:14 You must not go after other gods, those 
of the surrounding peoples, 6:15 for the Lord your God, who is present 
among you, is a jealous God and his anger will erupt against you and 
remove you from the land.

Exhortation to Obey the Lord Exclusively

6:16 You must not put the Lord your God to the test as you did at 
Massah. 6:17 Keep his commandments very carefully, as well as the 
stipulations and statutes he commanded you to observe. 6:18 Do whatever 
is proper and good before the Lord so that it may go well with you and 
that you may enter and occupy the good land that he promised your 
ancestors, 6:19 and that you may drive out all your enemies just as the 
Lord said.

Exhortation to Remember the Past

6:20 When your children ask you later on, "What are the stipulations, 
statutes, and ordinances that the Lord our God commanded you?" 6:21 you 
must say to them, "We were Pharaoh's slaves in Egypt, but the Lord 
brought us out of Egypt in a powerful way. 6:22 And he brought signs and 
great, devastating wonders on Egypt, on Pharaoh, and on his whole family 
before our very eyes. 6:23 He delivered us from there so that he could 
give us the land he had promised our ancestors. 6:24 The Lord commanded 
us to obey all these statutes and to revere him so that it may always go 
well for us and he may preserve us, as he has to this day. 6:25 We will 
be innocent if we carefully keep all these commandments before the Lord 
our God, just as he demands."



      Prayer


Lord, You teach us the what and the why and the how. May I accept the 
give of understanding so that Your wisdom will guide my life.


      Commentary


Moses reminded Israel that "the land of milk and honey" would only be a 
lasting blessing if they learn and obey God's commands.


Moses delivered the Lord God's instruction that they teach the children 
and that they make every effort to keep God's teaching before themselves 
-- literally posting it around their home and reciting it constantly -- 
so that it is central to their lives.

Moses reminded them to worship and obey the Lord God only -- and 
reminded them of God's response to their disobedient pagan worship in 
the past.

Moses instructed them to memorize his review of God's miracle of exodus, 
His provision, and His protection so that they might teach their children.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

God's blessing is conditional; it is conditional based-upon obedience.


        Discuss this:

With all that was ahead of them, fighting their way into the promised 
land, living in tents and settling-in, how challenging was the 
instruction to keep God's Word constantly before them have been?



        Reflect on this:

Adults teaching the children would help them to keep the Word in front 
of themselves.


        Share this:

When have you observed that God's blessings flow more readily to you, 
and through you to others, when you have been obedient versus disobedient?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you might help to teach the 
children about God's Word.


        Action:

Today I will adjust my priorities and resources to be certain that I am 
both keeping God's Word before myself and I am helping to teach it to 
children and new believers.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Thursday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 7



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct 20 23:17:50 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2010 23:17:50 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Deuteronomy 7
Message-ID: <4CBFB0DE.7010101@bibleseven.com>


    Thursday


      Deuteronomy 7


The Dispossession of Nonvassals

7:1 When the Lord your God brings you to the land that you are going to 
occupy and forces out many nations before you -- Hittites, Girgashites, 
Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites, seven nations 
more numerous and powerful than you -- 7:2 and he delivers them over to 
you and you attack them, you must utterly annihilate them. Make no 
treaty with them and show them no mercy! 7:3 You must not intermarry 
with them. Do not give your daughters to their sons or take their 
daughters for your sons, 7:4 for they will turn your sons away from me 
to worship other gods. Then the anger of the Lord will erupt against you 
and he will quickly destroy you. 7:5 Instead, this is what you must do 
to them: You must tear down their altars, shatter their sacred pillars, 
cut down their sacred Asherah poles, and burn up their idols. 7:6 For 
you are a people holy to the Lord your God. He has chosen you to be his 
people, prized above all others on the face of the earth.

The Basis of Israel's Election

7:7 It is not because you were more numerous than all the other peoples 
that the Lord favored and chose you -- for in fact you were the least 
numerous of all peoples. 7:8 Rather it is because of his love for you 
and his faithfulness to the promise he solemnly vowed to your ancestors 
that the Lord brought you out with great power, redeeming you from the 
place of slavery, from the power of Pharaoh king of Egypt. 7:9 So 
realize that the Lord your God is the true God, the faithful God who 
keeps covenant faithfully with those who love him and keep his 
commandments, to a thousand generations, 7:10 but who pays back those 
who hate him as they deserve and destroys them. He will not ignore those 
who hate him but will repay them as they deserve! 7:11 So keep the 
commandments, statutes, and ordinances that I today am commanding you to do.

Promises of Good for Covenant Obedience

7:12 If you obey these ordinances and are careful to do them, the Lord 
your God will faithfully keep covenant with you as he promised your 
ancestors. 7:13 He will love and bless you, and make you numerous. He 
will bless you with many children, with the produce of your soil, your 
grain, your new wine, your oil, the offspring of your oxen, and the 
young of your flocks in the land which he promised your ancestors to 
give you. 7:14 You will be blessed beyond all peoples; there will be no 
barrenness among you or your livestock. 7:15 The Lord will protect you 
from all sickness, and you will not experience any of the terrible 
diseases that you knew in Egypt; instead he will inflict them on all 
those who hate you.

Exhortation to Destroy Canaanite Paganism

7:16 You must destroy all the people whom the Lord your God is about to 
deliver over to you; you must not pity them or worship their gods, for 
that will be a snare to you. 7:17 If you think, "These nations are more 
numerous than I -- how can I dispossess them?" 7:18 you must not fear 
them. You must carefully recall what the Lord your God did to Pharaoh 
and all Egypt, 7:19 the great judgments you saw, the signs and wonders, 
the strength and power by which he brought you out -- thus the Lord your 
God will do to all the people you fear. 7:20 Furthermore, the Lord your 
God will release hornets among them until the very last ones who hide 
from you perish. 7:21 You must not tremble in their presence, for the 
Lord your God, who is present among you, is a great and awesome God. 
7:22 He, the God who leads you, will expel the nations little by little. 
You will not be allowed to destroy them all at once lest the wild 
animals overrun you. 7:23 The Lord your God will give them over to you; 
he will throw them into a great panic until they are destroyed. 7:24 He 
will hand over their kings to you and you will erase their very names 
from memory. Nobody will be able to resist you until you destroy them. 
7:25 You must burn the images of their gods, but do not covet the silver 
and gold that covers them so much that you take it for yourself and thus 
become ensnared by it; for it is abhorrent to the Lord your God. 7:26 
You must not bring any abhorrent thing into your house and thereby 
become an object of divine wrath along with it. You must absolutely 
detest and abhor it, for it is an object of divine wrath.



      Prayer


Lord, Your power and Your holiness go together. As I am blessed by You 
may I never forget that You are a holy God.


      Commentary


Moses delivered God's message that among those who must be driven from 
the promised land were seven nations that were bigger and stronger than 
they. He promised to deliver them to the Israelites but required them to 
obliterate those nations and to destroy all of their religious idols and 
temples. He forbids inter-marriage and warns against any contact with 
their pagan gods.

The Lord God, through Moses, reminded the Israelites that they were not 
chosen because they were a great nation, there among the smallest. He 
also reminded them that they were chosen for no reason other than His 
promises along the way to their ancient ancestors and because their 
ancestors had been faithful to Him.

The Lord God reminded them of all of the blessings He desired to pour 
out upon them, and how He would punish any nation who attacked them.

He instructed them to not be afraid because He has shown His power to 
overcome even the Pharaoh, but to instead be certain that they do not 
turn away from Him and become captive to their valuables and values.



      Interaction



        Consider this:

When God says to have no fear we may be certain that we have nothing to 
fear.


        Discuss this:

Why would God remind them so many times to be careful to not drift into 
the beliefs and values

of the pagans?



        Reflect on this:

God reminded them of their calling, not because they were a great 
nation, in order to keep them humble.


        Share this:

When have you found yourself drifting away from God because you have 
immersed yourself in too much of the world?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you one place or thing or perhaps person(s) 
that you need to remove from your life because it or they are drawing 
you away from God.



        Action:

Today I will consult a fellow believer who meets the Biblical 
requirement of an elder to prayerfully review my priorities to discover 
what it is the Holy Spirit needs me to change. I will pray for the 
courage to make that change, no matter the cost.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Friday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 8-9



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Thu Oct 21 21:43:14 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2010 21:43:14 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Deuteronomy 8-9
Message-ID: <4CC0EC32.7080301@bibleseven.com>


    Friday


      Deuteronomy 8-9


The Lord's Provision in the Desert

8:1 You must keep carefully all these commandments I am giving you today 
so that you may live, increase in number, and go in and occupy the land 
that the Lord promised to your ancestors. 8:2 Remember the whole way by 
which he has brought you these forty years through the desert so that he 
might, by humbling you, test you to see if you have it within you to 
keep his commandments or not. 8:3 So he humbled you by making you hungry 
and then feeding you with unfamiliar manna. He did this to teach you 
that humankind cannot live by bread alone, but also by everything that 
comes from the Lord's mouth. 8:4 Your clothing did not wear out nor did 
your feet swell all these forty years. 8:5 Be keenly aware that just as 
a parent disciplines his child, the Lord your God disciplines you. 8:6 
So you must keep his commandments, live according to his standards, and 
revere him. 8:7 For the Lord your God is bringing you to a good land, a 
land of brooks, springs, and fountains flowing forth in valleys and 
hills, 8:8 a land of wheat, barley, vines, fig trees, and pomegranates, 
of olive trees and honey, 8:9 a land where you may eat food in plenty 
and find no lack of anything, a land whose stones are iron and from 
whose hills you can mine copper. 8:10 You will eat your fill and then 
praise the Lord your God because of the good land he has given you.

Exhortation to Remember That Blessing Comes from God

8:11 Be sure you do not forget the Lord your God by not keeping his 
commandments, ordinances, and statutes that I am giving you today. 8:12 
When you eat your fill, when you build and occupy good houses, 8:13 when 
your cattle and flocks increase, when you have plenty of silver and 
gold, and when you have abundance of everything, 8:14 be sure you do not 
feel self-important and forget the Lord your God who brought you from 
the land of Egypt, the place of slavery, 8:15 and who brought you 
through the great, fearful desert of venomous serpents and scorpions, an 
arid place with no water. He made water flow from a flint rock and 8:16 
fed you in the desert with manna (which your ancestors had never before 
known) so that he might by humbling you test you and eventually bring 
good to you. 8:17 Be careful not to say, "My own ability and skill have 
gotten me this wealth." 8:18 You must remember the Lord your God, for he 
is the one who gives ability to get wealth; if you do this he will 
confirm his covenant that he made by oath to your ancestors, even as he 
has to this day. 8:19 Now if you forget the Lord your God at all and 
follow other gods, worshiping and prostrating yourselves before them, I 
testify to you today that you will surely be annihilated. 8:20 Just like 
the nations the Lord is about to destroy from your sight, so he will do 
to you because you would not obey him.

Theological Justification of the Conquest

9:1 Listen, Israel: Today you are about to cross the Jordan so you can 
dispossess the nations there, people greater and stronger than you who 
live in large cities with extremely high fortifications. 9:2 They 
include the Anakites, a numerous and tall people whom you know about and 
of whom it is said, "Who is able to resist the Anakites?" 9:3 Understand 
today that the Lord your God who goes before you is a devouring fire; he 
will defeat and subdue them before you. You will dispossess and destroy 
them quickly just as he has told you. 9:4 Do not think to yourself after 
the Lord your God has driven them out before you, "Because of my own 
righteousness the Lord has brought me here to possess this land." It is 
because of the wickedness of these nations that the Lord is driving them 
out ahead of you. 9:5 It is not because of your righteousness, or even 
your inner uprightness, that you have come here to possess their land. 
Instead, because of the wickedness of these nations the Lord your God is 
driving them out ahead of you in order to confirm the promise he made on 
oath to your ancestors, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. 9:6 Understand, 
therefore, that it is not because of your righteousness that the Lord 
your God is about to give you this good land as a possession, for you 
are a stubborn people!

The History of Israel's Stubbornness

9:7 Remember -- don't ever forget -- how you provoked the Lord your God 
in the desert; from the time you left the land of Egypt until you came 
to this place you were constantly rebelling against him. 9:8 At Horeb 
you provoked him and he was angry enough with you to destroy you. 9:9 
When I went up the mountain to receive the stone tablets, the tablets of 
the covenant that the Lord made with you, I remained there forty days 
and nights, eating and drinking nothing. 9:10 The Lord gave me the two 
stone tablets, written by the very finger of God, and on them was 
everything he said to you at the mountain from the midst of the fire at 
the time of that assembly. 9:11 Now at the end of the forty days and 
nights the Lord presented me with the two stone tablets, the tablets of 
the covenant. 9:12 And he said to me, "Get up, go down at once from here 
because your people whom you brought out of Egypt have sinned! They have 
quickly turned from the way I commanded them and have made for 
themselves a cast metal image." 9:13 Moreover, he said to me, "I have 
taken note of these people; they are a stubborn lot! 9:14 Stand aside 
and I will destroy them, obliterating their very name from memory, and I 
will make you into a stronger and more numerous nation than they are."

9:15 So I turned and went down the mountain while it was blazing with 
fire; the two tablets of the covenant were in my hands. 9:16 When I 
looked, you had indeed sinned against the Lord your God and had cast for 
yourselves a metal calf; you had quickly turned aside from the way he 
had commanded you! 9:17 I grabbed the two tablets, threw them down, and 
shattered them before your very eyes. 9:18 Then I again fell down before 
the Lord for forty days and nights; I ate and drank nothing because of 
all the sin you had committed, doing such evil before the Lord as to 
enrage him. 9:19 For I was terrified at the Lord's intense anger that 
threatened to destroy you. But he listened to me this time as well. 9:20 
The Lord was also angry enough at Aaron to kill him, but at that time I 
prayed for him too. 9:21 As for your sinful thing that you had made, the 
calf, I took it, melted it down, ground it up until it was as fine as 
dust, and tossed the dust into the stream that flows down the mountain. 
9:22 Moreover, you continued to provoke the Lord at Taberah, Massah, and 
Kibroth-Hattaavah. 9:23 And when he sent you from Kadesh-Barnea and told 
you, "Go up and possess the land I have given you," you rebelled against 
the Lord your God and would neither believe nor obey him. 9:24 You have 
been rebelling against him from the very first day I knew you!

Moses' Plea on Behalf of the Lord's Reputation

9:25 I lay flat on the ground before the Lord for forty days and nights, 
for he had said he would destroy you. 9:26 I prayed to him: O, Lord God, 
do not destroy your people, your valued property that you have 
powerfully redeemed, whom you brought out of Egypt by your strength. 
9:27 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob; ignore the 
stubbornness, wickedness, and sin of these people. 9:28 Otherwise the 
people of the land from which you brought us will say, "The Lord was 
unable to bring them to the land he promised them, and because of his 
hatred for them he has brought them out to kill them in the desert." 
9:29 They are your people, your valued property, whom you brought out 
with great strength and power.



      Prayer


Lord, Your provide for us in ways we rarely recognize. May I be 
ever-humble before You because I stand only in Your strength and I 
advance only in Your power.



      Commentary


Moses reminded the Israelites that the Lord God had kept them humble by 
meeting their need for food via the manna. That was His first step to 
then teach them that they did not live by bread alone but by every Word 
of God's teaching.

Moses told them that the promised land was filled with wonderful food 
and land and water.

He reminded them to always remember that all good things came from God 
and that to worship a false God would bring upon them the same 
annihilation He had prophesied to those nations currently in the 
promised land.

He reminded them that it was the evil of the current occupants that 
caused them to be driven out, and that despite their physical size and 
number He would sweep them away before the Israelites.

He humbled them by informing them that it was not their righteousness 
that earned them access to the promised land but it was the Lord God's 
promise to their predecessors such as Abraham.

He further humbled them by reminding them of their persistent rebellion 
and stubbornness.

He concluded by reminding them that he had prayed on his face for forty 
days that the Lord would bring glory to His name by honoring His 
promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- despite the rebellion and 
stubbornness of the Israelites.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

God allowed the pagan peoples to occupy and work the promised land in 
order to prepare it for them -- He never intended for them to remain 
there. As worshipers of false gods, facades for the enemy, they were 
generally implacable enemies of the Lord God.


        Discuss this:

How difficult might it have been for the proud and stubborn Israelites 
to hear God's rebuke through Moses, and to be humbled over and over therein?



        Reflect on this:

God is always faithful to His sovereign prophesy even when we are 
rebellious and stubborn in areas of His moral/preferential 
(non-sovereign) will for us.


        Share this:

When have you discovered God's faithfulness despite your lack of faith 
and your disobedience?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may need to be more humble 
before Him.



        Action:

Today I will read these verses again and reflect upon those areas in my 
life where I tend to be rebellious and stubborn toward God's perfect 
moral/preferential will for my life. I will make a list and agree to 
pray for the Holy Spirit to guide me back on the right path -- the path 
of God's blessing.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Saturday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 10



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Fri Oct 22 22:59:03 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2010 22:59:03 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Deuteronomy 10
Message-ID: <4CC24F77.90707@bibleseven.com>


    Saturday


      Deuteronomy 10


The Opportunity to Begin Again

10:1 At that same time the Lord said to me, "Carve out for yourself two 
stone tablets like the first ones and come up the mountain to me; also 
make for yourself a wooden ark. 10:2 I will write on the tablets the 
same words that were on the first tablets you broke, and you must put 
them into the ark." 10:3 So I made an ark of acacia wood and carved out 
two stone tablets just like the first ones. Then I went up the mountain 
with the two tablets in my hands. 10:4 The Lord then wrote on the 
tablets the same words, the ten commandments, which he had spoken to you 
at the mountain from the middle of the fire at the time of that 
assembly, and he gave them to me. 10:5 Then I turned, went down the 
mountain, and placed the tablets into the ark I had made -- they are 
still there, just as the Lord commanded me.

Conclusion of the Historical Resume

10:6 "During those days the Israelites traveled from Beeroth Bene-Yaaqan 
to Moserah. There Aaron died and was buried, and his son Eleazar became 
priest in his place. 10:7 From there they traveled to Gudgodah, and from 
Gudgodah to Jotbathah, a place of flowing streams. 10:8 At that time the 
Lord set apart the tribe of Levi to carry the ark of the Lord's 
covenant, to stand before the Lord to serve him, and to formulate 
blessings in his name, as they do to this very day. 10:9 Therefore Levi 
has no allotment or inheritance among his brothers; the Lord is his 
inheritance just as the Lord your God told him. 10:10 As for me, I 
stayed at the mountain as I did the first time, forty days and nights. 
The Lord listened to me that time as well and decided not to destroy 
you. 10:11 Then he said to me, "Get up, set out leading the people so 
they may go and possess the land I promised to give to their ancestors."

An Exhortation to Love Both God and People

10:12 Now, Israel, what does the Lord your God require of you except to 
revere him, to obey all his commandments, to love him, to serve him with 
all your mind and being, 10:13 and to keep the Lord's commandments and 
statutes that I am giving you today for your own good? 10:14 The heavens 
-- indeed the highest heavens -- belong to the Lord your God, as does 
the earth and everything in it. 10:15 However, only to your ancestors 
did he show his loving favor, and he chose you, their descendants, from 
all peoples -- as is apparent today. 10:16 Therefore, cleanse your heart 
and stop being so stubborn! 10:17 For the Lord your God is God of gods 
and Lord of lords, the great, mighty, and awesome God who is unbiased 
and takes no bribe, 10:18 who justly treats the orphan and widow, and 
who loves resident foreigners, giving them food and clothing. 10:19 So 
you must love the resident foreigner because you were foreigners in the 
land of Egypt. 10:20 Revere the Lord your God, serve him, be loyal to 
him and take oaths only in his name. 10:21 He is the one you should 
praise; he is your God, the one who has done these great and awesome 
things for you that you have seen. 10:22 When your ancestors went down 
to Egypt, they numbered only seventy, but now the Lord your God has made 
you as numerous as the stars of the sky.



      Prayer


Lord, everything belongs to You and yet You choose to pour Your love 
into us. May I remember that Your gift deserves the loving obedience of 
a grateful recipient.


      Commentary


Moses reminded them of the circumstances surrounding the second set of 
tablets of the commandments, God's second chance for them following 
their terrible betrayal with the golden calf.

He also revisited the calling of the Levis, away from life as they had 
know it, and into the priesthood.

He reminded the people that their obligation to God was reverence, 
obedience, love, and service.

He challenges them to cleanse their hearts of the idolatry of tradition 
and the things of the world, and to cease from resisting God as He seeks 
to be at the center of their being.


      Interaction


        Consider this:

Just as God was not required by His perfect justice to refrain from 
destroying Adam and Eve for their rebellion in the Garden, so also was 
it not required that He refrain from obliterating Israel -- other than 
for the plea of Moses that they were useful in demonstrating both His 
power and His grace -- something God needed Moses as their leader to 
understand.


        Discuss this:

Why would God judge it necessary to repeatedly remind the Israelites of 
their humble standing, total dependence, and obligation to Him?



        Reflect on this:

It is apparent that the religious practices and regulations insufficient 
to keep the Israelites faithful, while they have multiplied from seventy 
to nearly a million, their hearts are not yet His.


        Share this:

When have you discovered that you have fallen into a religious practice 
but that your relationship with God was not growing there?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place in your walk where you need 
to make a more intentional effort to allow Him to have Lordship where 
you are currently resisting Him.



        Action:

Today I will surrender that place in my life where the Holy Spirit does 
not yet have full Lordship. I will share this with a fellow believer for 
accountability and for prayer.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________


Sunday's text will be: Deuteronomy 11-12



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct 23 20:00:55 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2010 20:00:55 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Deuteronomy 11-12
Message-ID: <4CC37737.7020207@bibleseven.com>


    Sunday


      Deuteronomy 11-12


Reiteration of the Call to Obedience

11:1 You must love the Lord your God and do what he requires; keep his 
statutes, ordinances, and commandments at all times. 11:2 Bear in mind 
today that I am not speaking to your children who have not personally 
experienced the judgments of the Lord your God, which revealed his 
greatness, strength, and power. 11:3 They did not see the awesome deeds 
he performed in the midst of Egypt against Pharaoh king of Egypt and his 
whole land, 11:4 or what he did to the army of Egypt, including their 
horses and chariots, when he made the waters of the Red Sea overwhelm 
them while they were pursuing you and he annihilated them. 11:5 They did 
not see what he did to you in the desert before you reached this place, 
11:6 or what he did to Dathan and Abiram, sons of Eliab the Reubenite, 
when the earth opened its mouth in the middle of the Israelite camp and 
swallowed them, their families, their tents, and all the property they 
brought with them. 11:7 I am speaking to you because you are the ones 
who saw all the great deeds of the Lord!

The Abundance of the Land of Promise

11:8 Now pay attention to all the commandments I am giving you today, so 
that you may be strong enough to enter and possess the land where you 
are headed, 11:9 and that you may enjoy long life in the land the Lord 
promised to give to your ancestors and their descendants, a land flowing 
with milk and honey. 11:10 For the land where you are headed is not like 
the land of Egypt from which you came, a land where you planted seed and 
which you irrigated by hand like a vegetable garden. 11:11 Instead, the 
land you are crossing the Jordan to occupy is one of hills and valleys, 
a land that drinks in water from the rains, 11:12 a land the Lord your 
God looks after. He is constantly attentive to it from the beginning to 
the end of the year. 11:13 Now, if you pay close attention to my 
commandments that I am giving you today and love the Lord your God and 
serve him with all your mind and being, 11:14 then he promises, "I will 
send rain for your land in its season, the autumn and the spring rains, 
so that you may gather in your grain, new wine, and olive oil. 11:15 I 
will provide pasture for your livestock and you will eat your fill."

Exhortation to Instruction and Obedience

11:16 Make sure you do not turn away to serve and worship other gods! 
11:17 Then the anger of the Lord will erupt against you and he will 
close up the sky so that it does not rain. The land will not yield its 
produce, and you will soon be removed from the good land that the Lord 
is about to give you. 11:18 Fix these words of mine into your mind and 
being, and tie them as a reminder on your hands and let them be symbols 
on your forehead. 11:19 Teach them to your children and speak of them as 
you sit in your house, as you walk along the road, as you lie down, and 
as you get up. 11:20 Inscribe them on the doorframes of your houses and 
on your gates 11:21 so that your days and those of your descendants may 
be extended in the land which the Lord promised to give to your 
ancestors, like the days of heaven itself. 11:22 For if you carefully 
observe all of these commandments I am giving you and love the Lord your 
God, live according to his standards, and remain loyal to him, 11:23 
then he will drive out all these nations ahead of you, and you will 
dispossess nations greater and stronger than you. 11:24 Every place you 
set your foot will be yours; your border will extend from the desert to 
Lebanon and from the River (that is, the Euphrates) as far as the 
Mediterranean Sea. 11:25 Nobody will be able to resist you; the Lord 
your God will spread the fear and terror of you over the whole land on 
which you walk, just as he promised you.

Anticipation of a Blessing and Cursing Ceremony

11:26 Take note -- I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: 
11:27 the blessing if you take to heart the commandments of the Lord 
your God that I am giving you today, 11:28 and the curse if you pay no 
attention to his commandments and turn from the way I am setting before 
you today to pursue other gods you have not known. 11:29 When the Lord 
your God brings you into the land you are to possess, you must pronounce 
the blessing on Mount Gerizim and the curse on Mount Ebal. 11:30 Are 
they not across the Jordan River, toward the west, in the land of the 
Canaanites who live in the Arabah opposite Gilgal near the oak of Moreh? 
11:31 For you are about to cross the Jordan to possess the land the Lord 
your God is giving you, and you will possess and inhabit it. 11:32 Be 
certain to keep all the statutes and ordinances that I am presenting to 
you today.

The Central Sanctuary

12:1 These are the statutes and ordinances you must be careful to obey 
as long as you live in the land the Lord, the God of your ancestors, has 
given you to possess. 12:2 You must by all means destroy all the places 
where the nations you are about to dispossess worship their gods -- on 
the high mountains and hills and under every leafy tree. 12:3 You must 
tear down their altars, shatter their sacred pillars, burn up their 
sacred Asherah poles, and cut down the images of their gods; you must 
eliminate their very memory from that place. 12:4 You must not worship 
the Lord your God the way they worship. 12:5 But you must seek only the 
place he chooses from all your tribes to establish his name as his place 
of residence, and you must go there. 12:6 And there you must take your 
burnt offerings, your sacrifices, your tithes, the personal offerings 
you have prepared, your votive offerings, your freewill offerings, and 
the firstborn of your herds and flocks. 12:7 Both you and your families 
must feast there before the Lord your God and rejoice in all the output 
of your labor with which he has blessed you. 12:8 You must not do like 
we are doing here today, with everyone doing what seems best to him, 
12:9 for you have not yet come to the final stop and inheritance the 
Lord your God is giving you. 12:10 When you do go across the Jordan 
River and settle in the land he is granting you as an inheritance and 
you find relief from all the enemies who surround you, you will live in 
safety. 12:11 Then you must come to the place the Lord your God chooses 
for his name to reside, bringing everything I am commanding you -- your 
burnt offerings, sacrifices, tithes, the personal offerings you have 
prepared, and all your choice votive offerings which you devote to him. 
12:12 You shall rejoice in the presence of the Lord your God, along with 
your sons, daughters, male and female servants, and the Levites in your 
villages (since they have no allotment or inheritance with you). 12:13 
Make sure you do not offer burnt offerings in any place you wish, 12:14 
for you may do so only in the place the Lord chooses in one of your 
tribal areas -- there you may do everything I am commanding you.

Regulations for Profane Slaughter

12:15 On the other hand, you may slaughter and eat meat as you please 
when the Lord your God blesses you in all your villages. Both the 
ritually pure and impure may eat it, whether it is a gazelle or an ibex. 
12:16 However, you must not eat blood -- pour it out on the ground like 
water. 12:17 You will not be allowed to eat in your villages your tithe 
of grain, new wine, olive oil, the firstborn of your herd and flock, any 
votive offerings you have vowed, or your freewill and personal 
offerings. 12:18 Only in the presence of the Lord your God may you eat 
these, in the place he chooses. This applies to you, your son, your 
daughter, your male and female servants, and the Levites in your 
villages. In that place you will rejoice before the Lord your God in all 
the output of your labor. 12:19 Be careful not to overlook the Levites 
as long as you live in the land.

The Sanctity of Blood

12:20 When the Lord your God extends your borders as he said he would do 
and you say, "I want to eat meat just as I please," you may do so as you 
wish. 12:21 If the place he chooses to locate his name is too far for 
you, you may slaughter any of your herd and flock he has given you just 
as I have stipulated; you may eat them in your villages just as you 
wish. 12:22 Like you eat the gazelle or ibex, so you may eat these; the 
ritually impure and pure alike may eat them. 12:23 However, by no means 
eat the blood, for the blood is life itself -- you must not eat the life 
with the meat! 12:24 You must not eat it! You must pour it out on the 
ground like water. 12:25 You must not eat it so that it may go well with 
you and your children after you; you will be doing what is right in the 
Lord's sight. 12:26 Only the holy things and votive offerings that 
belong to you, you must pick up and take to the place the Lord will 
choose. 12:27 You must offer your burnt offerings, both meat and blood, 
on the altar of the Lord your God; the blood of your other sacrifices 
you must pour out on his altar while you eat the meat. 12:28 Pay careful 
attention to all these things I am commanding you so that it may always 
go well with you and your children after you when you do what is good 
and right in the sight of the Lord your God.

The Abomination of Pagan Gods

12:29 When the Lord your God eliminates the nations from the place where 
you are headed and you dispossess them, you will settle down in their 
land. 12:30 After they have been destroyed from your presence, be 
careful not to be ensnared like they are; do not pursue their gods and 
say, "How do these nations serve their gods? I will do the same." 12:31 
You must not worship the Lord your God the way they do! For everything 
that is abhorrent to him, everything he hates, they have done when 
worshiping their gods. They even burn up their sons and daughters before 
their gods!

Idolatry and False Prophets

12:32 (13:1) You must be careful to do everything I am commanding you. 
Do not add to it or subtract from it!



      Prayer


Lord, You chose to bless Israel, just as You choose to bless us today. 
May I be grateful and faithful to You.



      Commentary


Moses was addressing those who were not of military age, those who had 
not participated in the rebellion against God's first call to enter the 
promised land because they were too young, but those who were old enough 
to remember to remember the pre-exodus events in Egypt and all that 
followed. (The others were either too young or dead.)

They were reminded again that God desired to bless them greatly in a 
"land of milk and honey" which He would cause to provide for them 
abundantly, almost like the Garden of Eden.

They were reminded of God's promise to empty the land of the current 
temporary occupants and to protect them, as well as to bless the produce 
of the land, but only as long as they remained faithful to Him -- and 
taught their children to know and to do the same. Otherwise they would 
lose all of those blessings.

Moses instructs them that as they enter the land they are to conduct a 
ceremony where they announce blessings from Mount Gerizim and curses 
from Mount Ebal, on opposite sides of the Jordan. This would be yet one 
more symbolic reminder of their responsibility to be faithful in return 
for God's intervention in an otherwise hostile environment.

They were instructed to destroy every place of pagan worship and to 
worship the Lord God only in the single location He directs for their tribe.

If they wished to eat of their offerings they must first bring them to 
the central place of worship and surrender them to God through the 
priests -- and in that place they may join in the eating of them. They 
may, however eat meat, not of the firstborn for the offering, anywhere 
-- but to never eat the blood as that was symbolic of life.

They were reminded again to avoid the pagan false gods and to not try to 
mix the way they worship the Lord God with the way the pagans worshiped 
their false gods (the technical term is "syncretism"). They were 
reminded again to not alter any of God's teaching; to neither add or 
subtract from it.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

Blessings for obedience, curses for disobedience -- repeated again and 
again -- knowing that they were a "stiff-necked" (stubborn) people.


        Discuss this:

Do you see the continuum of God's Word here? From the description of an 
Eden-like land to the law of blessing vs curse, to the symbolism of life 
in blood (Jesus on the Cross), and to the warning to not alter the 
meaning of His Word in any way?



        Reflect on this:

Once again God warns the Israelites to alter nothing about His teaching; 
neither to add nor to subtract.


        Share this:

When have you found yourself teaching those who are younger in age, or 
in their Christian walk, of things that you learned and/or experienced 
from the past -- information which you paired with knowledge so that 
they would have the wisdom to walk rightly before the Lord God?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show me a place in my walk where I have an 
incomplete or incorrect understanding of something in your Word.


        Action:

Today I will accept the challenge of the Holy Spirit to re-examine my 
understanding of something in the Word of God. I will prayerfully 
surrender to His leading toward greater understanding. I will consult 
those who are Biblically-qualified as "elders" and seek their counsel 
and prayers toward my understanding. I will praise the Lord!


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Monday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 13-14



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sun Oct 24 16:56:43 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2010 16:56:43 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Deuteronomy 13-14
Message-ID: <4CC49D8B.2040203@bibleseven.com>


    Monday


      Deuteronomy 13-14



13:1 Suppose a prophet or one who foretells by dreams should appear 
among you and show you a sign or wonder, 13:2 and the sign or wonder 
should come to pass concerning what he said to you, namely, "Let us 
follow other gods" -- gods whom you have not previously known -- "and 
let us serve them." 13:3 You must not listen to the words of that 
prophet or dreamer, for the Lord your God will be testing you to see if 
you love him with all your mind and being. 13:4 You must follow the Lord 
your God and revere only him; and you must observe his commandments, 
obey him, serve him, and remain loyal to him. 13:5 As for that prophet 
or dreamer, he must be executed because he encouraged rebellion against 
the Lord your God who brought you from the land of Egypt, redeeming you 
from that place of slavery, and because he has tried to entice you from 
the way the Lord your God has commanded you to go. In this way you must 
purge out evil from within.

False Prophets in the Family

13:6 Suppose your own full brother, your son, your daughter, your 
beloved wife, or your closest friend should seduce you secretly and 
encourage you to go and serve other gods that neither you nor your 
ancestors have previously known, 13:7 the gods of the surrounding people 
(whether near you or far from you, from one end of the earth to the 
other). 13:8 You must not give in to him or even listen to him; do not 
feel sympathy for him or spare him or cover up for him. 13:9 Instead, 
you must kill him without fail! Your own hand must be the first to 
strike him, and then the hands of the whole community. 13:10 You must 
stone him to death because he tried to entice you away from the Lord 
your God, who delivered you from the land of Egypt, that place of 
slavery. 13:11 Thus all Israel will hear and be afraid; no longer will 
they continue to do evil like this among you.

Punishment of Community Idolatry

13:12 Suppose you should hear in one of your cities, which the Lord your 
God is giving you as a place to live, that 13:13 some evil people have 
departed from among you to entice the inhabitants of their cities, 
saying, "Let's go and serve other gods" (whom you have not known 
before). 13:14 You must investigate thoroughly and inquire carefully. If 
it is indeed true that such a disgraceful thing is being done among you, 
13:15 you must by all means slaughter the inhabitants of that city with 
the sword; annihilate with the sword everyone in it, as well as the 
livestock. 13:16 You must gather all of its plunder into the middle of 
the plaza and burn the city and all its plunder as a whole burnt 
offering to the Lord your God. It will be an abandoned ruin forever -- 
it must never be rebuilt again. 13:17 You must not take for yourself 
anything that has been placed under judgment. Then the Lord will relent 
from his intense anger, show you compassion, have mercy on you, and 
multiply you as he promised your ancestors. 13:18 Thus you must obey the 
Lord your God, keeping all his commandments that I am giving you today 
and doing what is right before him.

The Holy and the Profane

14:1 You are children of the Lord your God. Do not cut yourselves or 
shave your forehead bald for the sake of the dead. 14:2 For you are a 
people holy to the Lord your God. He has chosen you to be his people, 
prized above all others on the face of the earth. 14:3 You must not eat 
any forbidden thing. 14:4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the 
sheep, the goat, 14:5 the ibex, the gazelle, the deer, the wild goat, 
the antelope, the wild oryx, and the mountain sheep. 14:6 You may eat 
any animal that has hooves divided into two parts and that chews the 
cud. 14:7 However, you may not eat the following animals among those 
that chew the cud or those that have divided hooves: the camel, the 
hare, and the rock badger. (Although they chew the cud, they do not have 
divided hooves and are therefore ritually impure to you). 14:8 Also the 
pig is ritually impure to you; though it has divided hooves, it does not 
chew the cud. You may not eat their meat or even touch their remains. 
14:9 These you may eat from among water creatures: anything with fins 
and scales you may eat, 14:10 but whatever does not have fins and scales 
you may not eat; it is ritually impure to you. 14:11 All ritually clean 
birds you may eat. 14:12 These are the ones you may not eat: the eagle, 
the vulture, the black vulture, 14:13 the kite, the black kite, the 
dayyah after its species, 14:14 every raven after its species, 14:15 the 
ostrich, the owl, the seagull, the falcon after its species, 14:16 the 
little owl, the long-eared owl, the white owl, 14:17 the jackdaw, the 
carrion vulture, the cormorant, 14:18 the stork, the heron after its 
species, the hoopoe, the bat, 14:19 and any winged thing on the ground 
are impure to you -- they may not be eaten. 14:20 You may eat any clean 
bird. 14:21 You may not eat any corpse, though you may give it to the 
resident foreigner who is living in your villages and he may eat it, or 
you may sell it to a foreigner. You are a people holy to the Lord your 
God. Do not boil a young goat in its mother's milk.

The Offering of Tribute

14:22 You must be certain to tithe all the produce of your seed that 
comes from the field year after year. 14:23 In the presence of the Lord 
your God you must eat from the tithe of your grain, your new wine, your 
olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the place he 
chooses to locate his name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord 
your God always. 14:24 When he blesses you, if the place where he 
chooses to locate his name is distant, 14:25 you may convert the tithe 
into money, secure the money, and travel to the place the Lord your God 
chooses for himself. 14:26 Then you may spend the money however you wish 
for cattle, sheep, wine, beer, or whatever you desire. You and your 
household may eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and enjoy 
it. 14:27 As for the Levites in your villages, you must not ignore them, 
for they have no allotment or inheritance along with you. 14:28 At the 
end of every three years you must bring all the tithe of your produce, 
in that very year, and you must store it up in your villages. 14:29 Then 
the Levites (because they have no allotment or inheritance with you), 
the resident foreigners, the orphans, and the widows of your villages 
may come and eat their fill so that the Lord your God may bless you in 
all the work you do.



      Prayer


Lord, protecting Your sovereign truth among Your people was always a 
high priority. May I be vigilant in my life, and my fellowships, in 
resisting false teaching.



      Commentary


False prophets, despite the appearance of miracles, were to be executed 
to keep them from misleading the people away from the Lord God.

Loved-ones who promoted any false religion were to be killed.

A city, town, or village that turned away from God and to a false god 
was to be utterly destroyed; everyone and everything in it piled up and 
burned as an offering to God.

The regulations as to clean and unclean food were reviewed as well and 
the eating of the offerings.



      Interaction



        Consider this:

A false prophet is an emissary of Satan.


        Discuss this:

Does it not make sense that if someone comes to deceive people into 
leaving the one true God in favor of a false God that they are mortal 
enemies, the same as an attacking warrior?



        Reflect on this:

Merely because the deceiver is a family member or loved one it does not 
make them any less an enemy of truth and light and genuine hope.


        Share this:

When have you experienced or observed the impact of a false prophet or 
teacher in a fellowship? What was the result?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a promoter of false teaching. It 
may be in your fellowship, on the Internet, on the radio, or on the 
television.


        Action:

Today I will acknowledge the truth of God versus the false teaching. 
Insofar as I am able I will communicate the falsehoods, that the Holy 
Spirit has revealed, to the false teacher. If he or she is not repentant 
then I will communicate their refusal to repent to the appropriate 
theological authorities (denominational or associational leaders). If 
they are either not under authority, or their authority shares their 
false message, I will communicate the falsehood to believers and those 
considering-Christ.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Tuesday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 15-17




-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Mon Oct 25 14:29:16 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:29:16 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
Message-ID: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>

ELECTRONIC FELLOWSHIP AMONG CHRISTIANS

WDYT?

As obedient and responsible Christians we can *fellowship
with fellow believers* on the Internet without selling-out.

With all of the alternatives to Facebook there is no excuse
to expose ourselves and our children to the trash on Facebook.

An intentionally-Christian social networking resource is what
we should support, and require of friends and family - if they
want to socialize electronically with us they will come to us
on a safe resource and not demand that we crawl into the
secular-sewers of Facebook and MySpace.

http://www.faithout.com/
http://www.circlebuilder.com/why
http://www.fusion101.com/christian-websites/christian-facebook-alternative-sites.htm
http://reflectionministry.blogspot.com/2008/01/christian-alternatives-to-facebook.html

Alternatives to YouTube and the like are GodTube and Tangle.
Again, no excuse to sell-out and fail to post Christian resources
on those resources.

MISSIONARY-EVANGELISM is *different* than FELLOWSHIP.

If one is mature enough to evangelize then one *visits* the
secular sites to post information and to engage in missionary
outreach -- no responsible Christian *dwells-for-long* on any
of the secular networking sites.

The Bible warns that you *will* be negatively impacted if
you spend too much time with non-Christians and/or immersed
in non-Christian environments.  Heed God's warning!

-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From proyectopuente at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 25 15:21:16 2010
From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 14:21:16 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <SNT124-DS3F93B8CE6C03DC2BB50C7D9410@phx.gbl>

Pastor David:

Great post!

I ask your permission to translate into Spanish and resend.

Blessings.

Stephen 

__________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5561 (20101025) __________

ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje.

http://www.eset.com




From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Mon Oct 25 15:59:40 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 15:59:40 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday - Deuternonomy 15-17
Message-ID: <4CC5E1AC.4030905@bibleseven.com>


    Tuesday


      Deuteronomy 15-17

Release for Debt Slaves

15:1 At the end of every seven years you must declare a cancellation of 
debts. 15:2 This is the nature of the cancellation: Every creditor must 
remit what he has loaned to another person; he must not force payment 
from his fellow Israelite, for it is to be recognized as "the Lord's 
cancellation of debts." 15:3 You may exact payment from a foreigner, but 
whatever your fellow Israelite owes you, you must remit. 15:4 However, 
there should not be any poor among you, for the Lord will surely bless 
you in the land that he is giving you as an inheritance, 15:5 if you 
carefully obey him by keeping all these commandments that I am giving 
you today. 15:6 For the Lord your God will bless you just as he has 
promised; you will lend to many nations but will not borrow from any, 
and you will rule over many nations but they will not rule over you.

The Spirit of Liberality

15:7 If a fellow Israelite from one of your villages in the land that 
the Lord your God is giving you should be poor, you must not harden your 
heart or be insensitive to his impoverished condition. 15:8 Instead, you 
must be sure to open your hand to him and generously lend him whatever 
he needs. 15:9 Be careful lest you entertain the wicked thought that the 
seventh year, the year of cancellation of debts, has almost arrived, and 
your attitude be wrong toward your impoverished fellow Israelite and you 
do not lend him anything; he will cry out to the Lord against you and 
you will be regarded as having sinned. 15:10 You must by all means lend 
to him and not be upset by doing it, for because of this the Lord your 
God will bless you in all your work and in everything you attempt. 15:11 
There will never cease to be some poor people in the land; therefore, I 
am commanding you to make sure you open your hand to your fellow 
Israelites who are needy and poor in your land.

Release of Debt Slaves

15:12 If your fellow Hebrew -- whether male or female -- is sold to you 
and serves you for six years, then in the seventh year you must let that 
servant go free. 15:13 If you set them free, you must not send them away 
empty-handed. 15:14 You must supply them generously from your flock, 
your threshing floor, and your winepress -- as the Lord your God has 
blessed you, you must give to them. 15:15 Remember that you were a slave 
in the land of Egypt and the Lord your God redeemed you; therefore, I am 
commanding you to do this thing today. 15:16 However, if the servant 
says to you, "I do not want to leave you," because he loves you and your 
household, since he is well off with you, 15:17 you shall take an awl 
and pierce a hole through his ear to the door. Then he will become your 
servant permanently (this applies to your female servant as well). 15:18 
You should not consider it difficult to let him go free, for he will 
have served you for six years, twice the time of a hired worker; the 
Lord your God will bless you in everything you do.

Giving God the Best

15:19 You must set apart for the Lord your God every firstborn male born 
to your herds and flocks. You must not work the firstborn of your bulls 
or shear the firstborn of your flocks. 15:20 You and your household must 
eat them annually before the Lord your God in the place he chooses. 
15:21 If they have any kind of blemish -- lameness, blindness, or 
anything else -- you may not offer them as a sacrifice to the Lord your 
God. 15:22 You may eat it in your villages, whether you are ritually 
impure or clean, just as you would eat a gazelle or an ibex. 15:23 
However, you must not eat its blood; you must pour it out on the ground 
like water.

The Passover-Unleavened Bread Festival

16:1 Observe the month Abib and keep the Passover to the Lord your God, 
for in that month he brought you out of Egypt by night. 16:2 You must 
sacrifice the Passover animal (from the flock or the herd) to the Lord 
your God in the place where he chooses to locate his name. 16:3 You must 
not eat any yeast with it; for seven days you must eat bread made 
without yeast, symbolic of affliction, for you came out of Egypt 
hurriedly. You must do this so you will remember for the rest of your 
life the day you came out of the land of Egypt. 16:4 There must not be a 
scrap of yeast within your land for seven days, nor can any of the meat 
you sacrifice on the evening of the first day remain until the next 
morning. 16:5 You may not sacrifice the Passover in just any of your 
villages that the Lord your God is giving you, 16:6 but you must 
sacrifice it in the evening in the place where he chooses to locate his 
name, at sunset, the time of day you came out of Egypt. 16:7 You must 
cook and eat it in the place the Lord your God chooses; you may return 
the next morning to your tents. 16:8 You must eat bread made without 
yeast for six days. The seventh day you are to hold an assembly for the 
Lord your God; you must not do any work on that day.

The Festival of Weeks

16:9 You must count seven weeks; you must begin to count them from the 
time you begin to harvest the standing grain. 16:10 Then you are to 
celebrate the Festival of Weeks before the Lord your God with the 
voluntary offering that you will bring, in proportion to how he has 
blessed you. 16:11 You shall rejoice before him -- you, your son, your 
daughter, your male and female slaves, the Levites in your villages, the 
resident foreigners, the orphans, and the widows among you -- in the 
place where the Lord chooses to locate his name. 16:12 Furthermore, 
remember that you were a slave in Egypt, and so be careful to observe 
these statutes.

The Festival of Temporary Shelters

16:13 You must celebrate the Festival of Temporary Shelters for seven 
days, at the time of the grain and grape harvest. 16:14 You are to 
rejoice in your festival, you, your son, your daughter, your male and 
female slaves, the Levites, the resident foreigners, the orphans, and 
the widows who are in your villages. 16:15 You are to celebrate the 
festival seven days before the Lord your God in the place he chooses, 
for he will bless you in all your productivity and in whatever you do; 
so you will indeed rejoice! 16:16 Three times a year all your males must 
appear before the Lord your God in the place he chooses for the Festival 
of Unleavened Bread, the Festival of Weeks, and the Festival of 
Temporary Shelters; and they must not appear before him empty-handed. 
16:17 Every one of you must give as you are able, according to the 
blessing of the Lord your God that he has given you.

Provision for Justice

16:18 You must appoint judges and civil servants for each tribe in all 
your villages that the Lord your God is giving you, and they must judge 
the people fairly. 16:19 You must not pervert justice or show favor. Do 
not take a bribe, for bribes blind the eyes of the wise and distort the 
words of the righteous. 16:20 You must pursue justice alone so that you 
may live and inherit the land the Lord your God is giving you.

Examples of Legal Cases

16:21 You must not plant any kind of tree as a sacred Asherah pole near 
the altar of the Lord your God which you build for yourself. 16:22 You 
must not erect a sacred pillar, a thing the Lord your God detests.

17:1 You must not sacrifice to him a bull or sheep that has a blemish or 
any other defect, because that is considered offensive to the Lord your 
God. 17:2 Suppose a man or woman is discovered among you -- in one of 
your villages that the Lord your God is giving you -- who sins before 
the Lord your God and breaks his covenant 17:3 by serving other gods and 
worshiping them -- the sun, moon, or any other heavenly bodies which I 
have not permitted you to worship. 17:4 When it is reported to you and 
you hear about it, you must investigate carefully. If it is indeed true 
that such a disgraceful thing is being done in Israel, 17:5 you must 
bring to your city gates that man or woman who has done this wicked 
thing -- that very man or woman -- and you must stone that person to 
death. 17:6 At the testimony of two or three witnesses they must be 
executed. They cannot be put to death on the testimony of only one 
witness. 17:7 The witnesses must be first to begin the execution, and 
then all the people are to join in afterward. In this way you will purge 
evil from among you.

Appeal to a Higher Court

17:8 If a matter is too difficult for you to judge -- bloodshed, legal 
claim, or assault -- matters of controversy in your villages -- you must 
leave there and go up to the place the Lord your God chooses. 17:9 You 
will go to the Levitical priests and the judge in office in those days 
and seek a solution; they will render a verdict. 17:10 You must then do 
as they have determined at that place the Lord chooses. Be careful to do 
just as you are taught. 17:11 You must do what you are instructed, and 
the verdict they pronounce to you, without fail. Do not deviate right or 
left from what they tell you. 17:12 The person who pays no attention to 
the priest currently serving the Lord your God there, or to the verdict 
-- that person must die, so that you may purge evil from Israel. 17:13 
Then all the people will hear and be afraid, and not be so presumptuous 
again.

Provision for Kingship

17:14 When you come to the land the Lord your God is giving you and take 
it over and live in it and then say, "I will select a king like all the 
nations surrounding me," 17:15 you must select without fail a king whom 
the Lord your God chooses. From among your fellow citizens you must 
appoint a king -- you may not designate a foreigner who is not one of 
your fellow Israelites. 17:16 Moreover, he must not accumulate horses 
for himself or allow the people to return to Egypt to do so, for the 
Lord has said you must never again return that way. 17:17 Furthermore, 
he must not marry many wives lest his affections turn aside, and he must 
not accumulate much silver and gold. 17:18 When he sits on his royal 
throne he must make a copy of this law on a scroll given to him by the 
Levitical priests. 17:19 It must be with him constantly and he must read 
it as long as he lives, so that he may learn to revere the Lord his God 
and observe all the words of this law and these statutes and carry them 
out. 17:20 Then he will not exalt himself above his fellow citizens or 
turn from the commandments to the right or left, and he and his 
descendants will enjoy many years ruling over his kingdom in Israel.



      Prayer


Lord, you anticipate our foolishness and provide ways that we may assist 
one-another. May I listen for Your invitation to be Your conduit of 
blessing to fellow believers.


      Commentary


Every seven years creditors were to cancel all debts owed to fellow 
Israelites. The qualification of this was that if the people were 
faithful then there would be no poor as God would be blessing them. 
There was also a requirement that those who have debts must keep current 
on their payments, in this way someone could not incur a debt and fail 
to pay for seven years only to then expect to be released from the 
obligation without out any prior effort to repay.

Foreigners were not included in the seven-year debt cancellation, this 
was only for God's family of Israelites.

Loans to fellow Israelites in need were to be given generously as God 
promised to bless those who did so. They were also not to worry, even if 
the 7 year forgiveness date was near as God would bless them for doing 
so even then.

Debt servants were to be set free with gifts from flocks and other 
resources. If they chose to remain, because of an emotional-attachment 
to the family, then an awl-hole in their ear would mark them as a 
permanent slave.

The Israelites were reminded that all sacrifices were to be from the 
first and the best, the unblemished. They were also reminded of the 
various festivals.

The Lord God provided for a system of justice, one that was to be free 
of bribery and/or favoritism, and for the right of appeal to a higher 
court from among the Levitical priests.

If the Israelites should insist upon a king like the nations around 
them, God must choose that king; however, that king was not to enrich 
himself nor marry multiple wives else he would turn away from God and 
the people.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

Saul and David and Solomon were the first kings of Israel and all of 
them violated God's limitations on the king and all of them harmed 
Israel as a result.


        Discuss this:

Would it not require great faith and trust in God to loan a person money 
near to a 7 year cancellation of debts?



        Reflect on this:

A slave, despite the opportunity to go free with animals and other 
resources -- free to start anew -- might actually become so attached to 
his or her master's family that they'd choose to remain a slave to them 
permanently.


        Share this:

When have you assisted or been assisted by a fellow believer who had no 
expectation that you could every repay them?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you an opportunity to bless someone with 
generous assistance, in their time of need, from the resources that God 
has generously given to you



        Action:

Today I will prayerfully, and as-needed in consultation with one or more 
who are Biblically-qualified as elders, discern a legitimate need for 
assistance to a brother or sister in the Lord.

I will wisely assist them, which may mean paying a bill rather than 
giving money, as sometimes people are not themselves wise in handling 
their funds; however is I have good cause to trust them then I will give 
them money to use as they deem best. My assistance may instead be fixing 
something, providing transportation, spending time in encouragement, 
prayer, food, child care, or other need-meeting sacrifice of my time and 
physical resources. I will share a report of God's blessing to them 
poured-out through me, not as a testimony to me but to Him.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Wednesday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 18-19



-- 

Have anhttp://Ultrafidian.com  Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site:http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources:http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From wa3fkg at gmail.com  Mon Oct 25 16:22:59 2010
From: wa3fkg at gmail.com (Ken Sprouse)
Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2010 16:22:59 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim+ksDe9aWtgYf1nvM6mA6s4HnE1o1A1+C7EO13@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com> <4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTim+ksDe9aWtgYf1nvM6mA6s4HnE1o1A1+C7EO13@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTik8dAA0wgt+d1LVBGs-4y+RwhgmjOfHBE-2SUDj@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Ken Sprouse <wa3fkg at gmail.com> wrote:

> n Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 7:28 PM, Robert Poppo <ebenezeriesous at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I work in IT and I have to say I have never thought of Linux quite that
>> way before.  It does make a certain amount of sense though.  I typing this
>> on a new "generic" desk top box that I just put together with an AMD quad
>> core processor, 4 gigs of RAM, ab Nvidia GForce video card with 1 gig of RAM
>> and a  1 terabyte hard drive.  With all that hard drive space I could easily
>> have installed both Windows and Linux on the system but I didn't even
>> consider it.  I installed Ubuntu 10.04 and once I have everything configured
>> exactly the way I want it I may install Virtual Box and set up a Windows
>> virtual machine if I have some reason that I absolutely need to run Windows.
>>  I try not to let the Windows vs Linux debate become a religious war in my
>> work or dealings with other computer users but I am not shy about telling
>> them that I use Linux, why I use it and why I think it is a better platform.
>
>
>
I just put together a very similar "white box" system, I'm typing on at this
moment, and after using it for a week or so I installed Virtual Box (
http://www.virtualbox.org) and have loaded an image of Windows 7 as well as
a few other Linux distributions that I'm playing with.  I haven't done much
with the virtual Windows machine other than start it up and surf the web.
 Once I know that it will talk to all of the hardware correctly, USB ports
and such, I will try loading some radio programming software that I use that
is only available for Windows.  I have a few programs that I need Windows
for as does my wife who has an embroidery sewing machine.  Same situation.

I also try not to turn Linux vs Windows into a holy war.  I did at one time
and discovered that it was simply unproductive and a real time waster.  I
work in a Windows shop and I'm not going to change that so I have to deal
with it during the work day.  At home I use Linux and I spread the word to
anyone that will listen that for what most people do with a computer these
days that Linux works just fine and has many advantages over the Windows
world.  So far all of the friend and relatives that I have "converted" to
Linux are very happy with the change.  A few of them haven't even noticed.
 :-)  I initially used only the K desktop because it had the "look and feel"
of Windows but I have decided that I prefer the Gnome environment and use
that most of the time.  I have settled on Ubuntu for my distribution
although I still try to keep track of what is going on with SuSe and Fedora
among others.

A wise man once said that "One of the best things about Linux is the
large variety choices." and "One of the worst things about Linux is the
large variety of choices".  I say to each his own.





-- 
Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG      John 3:16  http://wa3fkg.blogspot.com
You meet the nicest people at a TEA Party.
The box said "Win98/2000/XP or better" so I installed Linux!
Smith & Wesson - The ultimate point and click user interface.
If handguns cause crime, mine is defective.
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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Tue Oct 26 18:24:04 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 18:24:04 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTik8dAA0wgt+d1LVBGs-4y+RwhgmjOfHBE-2SUDj@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CA11EEE.7020406@gmail.com>
	<4CA128B3.1000002@gmail.com>	<AANLkTim+ksDe9aWtgYf1nvM6mA6s4HnE1o1A1+C7EO13@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTik8dAA0wgt+d1LVBGs-4y+RwhgmjOfHBE-2SUDj@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CC75504.1080301@bibleseven.com>

I have found the opposite to be true - those who are enslaved to a
proprietary MS version of windows feel it is necessary to attack
Linux.  In more than one case in the past they were so paranoid or
zealous that they undertook to unnecessarily drive Linux out of
the workplace.

Ridiculous, yes.  Surprising, no.  MS "agents" have been sowing
lies about Linux for years and far too many people believe them
the same as they have believed lies for generations from politicians,
false religions, and the merchants of addictive and destructive
substances and lifestyles.

BTW1:  Puppy Linux now has versions that are closely linked to
Ubuntu and Debian so that those repositories may be utilized.  It
has proved the best of both worlds - a compact, efficient, and
easily customized distro with access to huge repositories of apps.

BTW2: I am now self-employed and my boss insists upon a
Linux-only shop!  ;-)

Actually, there are MS versions of windows on a couple of the
laptops but they are hidden from the user in the GRUB boot so
that only I know how to create access to them - preventing users
from inviting trouble online ...

> I just put together a very similar "white box" system, I'm typing on 
> at this moment, and after using it for a week or so I installed 
> Virtual Box ( http://www.virtualbox.org) and have loaded an image of 
> Windows 7 as well as a few other Linux distributions that I'm playing 
> with.  I haven't done much with the virtual Windows machine other than 
> start it up and surf the web.  Once I know that it will talk to all of 
> the hardware correctly, USB ports and such, I will try loading some 
> radio programming software that I use that is only available for 
> Windows.  I have a few programs that I need Windows for as does my 
> wife who has an embroidery sewing machine.  Same situation.
>
> I also try not to turn Linux vs Windows into a holy war.  I did at one 
> time and discovered that it was simply unproductive and a real time 
> waster.  I work in a Windows shop and I'm not going to change that so 
> I have to deal with it during the work day.  At home I use Linux and I 
> spread the word to anyone that will listen that for what most people 
> do with a computer these days that Linux works just fine and has many 
> advantages over the Windows world.  So far all of the friend 
> and relatives that I have "converted" to Linux are very happy with the 
> change.  A few of them haven't even noticed.  :-)  I initially used 
> only the K desktop because it had the "look and feel" of Windows but I 
> have decided that I prefer the Gnome environment and use that most of 
> the time.  I have settled on Ubuntu for my distribution although I 
> still try to keep track of what is going on with SuSe and Fedora among 
> others.
>
> A wise man once said that "One of the best things about Linux is the 
> large variety choices." and "One of the worst things about Linux is 
> the large variety of choices".  I say to each his own.

> -- 
> Ken Sprouse / WA3FKG      John 3:16 http://wa3fkg.blogspot.com
> You meet the nicest people at a TEA Party.
> The box said "Win98/2000/XP or better" so I installed Linux!
> Smith & Wesson - The ultimate point and click user interface.
> If handguns cause crime, mine is defective.


-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Tue Oct 26 20:29:56 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 20:29:56 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday - Deuteronomy 18-19
Message-ID: <4CC77284.4080908@bibleseven.com>


    Wednesday


      Deuteronomy 18-19


Provision for Priests and Levites

18:1 The Levitical priests -- indeed, the entire tribe of Levi -- will 
have no allotment or inheritance with Israel; they may eat the burnt 
offerings of the Lord and of his inheritance. 18:2 They will have no 
inheritance in the midst of their fellow Israelites; the Lord alone is 
their inheritance, just as he had told them. 18:3 This shall be the 
priests' fair allotment from the people who offer sacrifices, whether 
bull or sheep -- they must give to the priest the shoulder, the jowls, 
and the stomach. 18:4 You must give them the best of your grain, new 
wine, and olive oil, as well as the best of your wool when you shear 
your flocks. 18:5 For the Lord your God has chosen them and their sons 
from all your tribes to stand and serve in his name permanently. 18:6 
Suppose a Levite comes by his own free will from one of your villages, 
from any part of Israel where he is living, to the place the Lord 
chooses 18:7 and serves in the name of the Lord his God like his fellow 
Levites who stand there before the Lord. 18:8 He must eat the same share 
they do, despite any profits he may gain from the sale of his family's 
inheritance.

Provision for Prophetism

18:9 When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, you must 
not learn the abhorrent practices of those nations. 18:10 There must 
never be found among you anyone who sacrifices his son or daughter in 
the fire, anyone who practices divination, an omen reader, a soothsayer, 
a sorcerer, 18:11 one who casts spells, one who conjures up spirits, a 
practitioner of the occult, or a necromancer. 18:12 Whoever does these 
things is abhorrent to the Lord and because of these detestable things 
the Lord your God is about to drive them out from before you. 18:13 You 
must be blameless before the Lord your God. 18:14 Those nations that you 
are about to dispossess listen to omen readers and diviners, but the 
Lord your God has not given you permission to do such things.

18:15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from 
among you -- from your fellow Israelites; you must listen to him. 18:16 
This accords with what happened at Horeb in the day of the assembly. You 
asked the Lord your God: "Please do not make us hear the voice of the 
Lord our God any more or see this great fire any more lest we die." 
18:17 The Lord then said to me, "What they have said is good. 18:18 I 
will raise up a prophet like you for them from among their fellow 
Israelites. I will put my words in his mouth and he will speak to them 
whatever I command. 18:19 I will personally hold responsible anyone who 
then pays no attention to the words that prophet speaks in my name.

18:20 "But if any prophet presumes to speak anything in my name that I 
have not authorized him to speak, or speaks in the name of other gods, 
that prophet must die. 18:21 Now if you say to yourselves, 'How can we 
tell that a message is not from the Lord?' -- 18:22 whenever a prophet 
speaks in my name and the prediction is not fulfilled, then I have not 
spoken it; the prophet has presumed to speak it, so you need not fear him."

Laws Concerning Manslaughter

19:1 When the Lord your God destroys the nations whose land he is about 
to give you and you dispossess them and settle in their cities and 
houses, 19:2 you must set apart for yourselves three cities in the 
middle of your land that the Lord your God is giving you as a 
possession. 19:3 You shall build a roadway and divide into thirds the 
whole extent of your land that the Lord your God is providing as your 
inheritance; anyone who kills another person should flee to the closest 
of these cities. 19:4 Now this is the law pertaining to one who flees 
there in order to live, if he has accidentally killed another without 
hating him at the time of the accident. 19:5 Suppose he goes with 
someone else to the forest to cut wood and when he raises the ax to cut 
the tree, the ax head flies loose from the handle and strikes his fellow 
worker so hard that he dies. The person responsible may then flee to one 
of these cities to save himself. 19:6 Otherwise the blood avenger will 
chase after the killer in the heat of his anger, eventually overtake 
him, and kill him, though this is not a capital case since he did not 
hate him at the time of the accident. 19:7 Therefore, I am commanding 
you to set apart for yourselves three cities. 19:8 If the Lord your God 
enlarges your borders as he promised your ancestors and gives you all 
the land he pledged to them, 19:9 and then you are careful to observe 
all these commandments I am giving you today (namely, to love the Lord 
your God and to always walk in his ways), then you must add three more 
cities to these three. 19:10 You must not shed innocent blood in your 
land that the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance, for that 
would make you guilty. 19:11 However, suppose a person hates someone 
else and stalks him, attacks him, kills him, and then flees to one of 
these cities. 19:12 The elders of his own city must send for him and 
remove him from there to deliver him over to the blood avenger to die. 
19:13 You must not pity him, but purge out the blood of the innocent 
from Israel, so that it may go well with you.

Laws Concerning Witnesses

19:14 You must not encroach on your neighbor's property, which will have 
been defined in the inheritance you will obtain in the land the Lord 
your God is giving you.

19:15 A single witness may not testify against another person for any 
trespass or sin that he commits. A matter may be legally established 
only on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 19:16 If a false 
witness testifies against another person and accuses him of a crime, 
19:17 then both parties to the controversy must stand before the Lord, 
that is, before the priests and judges who will be in office in those 
days. 19:18 The judges will thoroughly investigate the matter, and if 
the witness should prove to be false and to have given false testimony 
against the accused, 19:19 you must do to him what he had intended to do 
to the accused. In this way you will purge evil from among you. 19:20 
The rest of the people will hear and become afraid to keep doing such 
evil among you. 19:21 You must not show pity; the principle will be a 
life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a 
hand, and a foot for a foot.



      Prayer


Lord, You are a holy God and anything associated with the enemy is an 
offense to You. May I never compromise with witchcraft or anything like it.



      Commentary


The Israelites were reminded to provide for the Levites as they 
surrendered all for the service of the priesthood for the rest of Israel.

The Lord God condemned all forms of witchcraft; divination, omen 
reading, soothsaying, sorcery, casting spells, conjuring up spirits, 
practitioners of the occult, or necromancy (trying to speak with the 
dead). He also, again, condemned casting children into the fire of 
sacrifice.

Moses communicated God's intention to raise up another prophet, like 
himself, to guide them as to the instructions of the Lord God, and that 
God would punish those who disrespected or disobeyed the prophet. He 
further informed them that if a prophet predicted something that did not 
happen then they were not speaking from God and were not to be feared as 
they had broken from God in an act of disobedience.

The necessity of the cities of refuge was revisited, with the provision 
that if a person hunted and killed another then hid in one of the cities 
then the elders were to remove them and turn them over to the relatives 
of the murdered Israelite to be killed.

Israelites were to honor the lands of one another as they were 
distributed to them by the Lord God.

The requirement for more than one witness was reaffirmed.

The principle of an eye for an eye was also reaffirmed as a 
reference-point for proportional punishment for a crime.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

Essentially, everything that we might generally refer to as /the occult/ 
was condemned by the Lord God as evil and repulsive to Him and anyone 
who honored Him.


        Discuss this:

Why did God place such a high priority on the people listening to His 
anointed prophet and for them to reject even the most subtle elements of 
the occult and false teaching?



        Reflect on this:

A system of justice, respect for the property of one another, and 
certain consequences for those who chose to commit crimes against their 
fellow Israelites was important to God.


        Share this:

When have you discovered elements of the occult drifting into your life 
or somewhere within the families within your fellowship? Was the problem 
addressed? What was the response and the result? Based on the teaching 
in today's Deuteronomy text, which was re-affirmed by Jesus and the 
authors of the New Testament, would God have been pleased?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any element of /the occult/ in your 
life or that of your family and friends.



        Action:

Today I will partner with the Holy Spirit to purge my life of even the 
smallest elements of /the occult/, and I will prayerfully and 
respectfully implore others to do so as well. If I have any question 
about something I believe to be of /the occult/ I will consult one or 
more who meet the Biblical qualification of an elder.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Thursday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 20-21



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From shengchieh at linuxmail.org  Tue Oct 26 22:40:07 2010
From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:40:07 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>


 I recently recommend to my church not to use Facebook
because of all the privacy concern.  Instead use diaspora
when it is officially released (in alpha right now).


http://www.joindiaspora.com/

 
Btw, just today, someone released a firefox add-on
showing how easy it is to spoof other accounts.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20101027/bs_nf/75781

Sheng-Chieh





 

-----Original Message-----
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com <pastordavid at bibleseven.com>
To: Linux for Christians <linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net>; ChristianHams at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Oct 25, 2010 11:29 am
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook


ELECTRONIC FELLOWSHIP AMONG CHRISTIANS 
 
WDYT? 
 
As obedient and responsible Christians we can *fellowship 
with fellow believers* on the Internet without selling-out. 
 
With all of the alternatives to Facebook there is no excuse 
to expose ourselves and our children to the trash on Facebook. 
 
An intentionally-Christian social networking resource is what 
we should support, and require of friends and family - if they 
want to socialize electronically with us they will come to us 
on a safe resource and not demand that we crawl into the 
secular-sewers of Facebook and MySpace. 
 
http://www.faithout.com/ 
http://www.circlebuilder.com/why 
http://www.fusion101.com/christian-websites/christian-facebook-alternative-sites.htm 
http://reflectionministry.blogspot.com/2008/01/christian-alternatives-to-facebook.html 
 
Alternatives to YouTube and the like are GodTube and Tangle. 
Again, no excuse to sell-out and fail to post Christian resources 
on those resources. 
 
MISSIONARY-EVANGELISM is *different* than FELLOWSHIP. 
 
If one is mature enough to evangelize then one *visits* the 
secular sites to post information and to engage in missionary 
outreach -- no responsible Christian *dwells-for-long* on any 
of the secular networking sites. 
 
The Bible warns that you *will* be negatively impacted if 
you spend too much time with non-Christians and/or immersed 
in non-Christian environments.  Heed God's warning! 
 
--  
Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com 
Bible Resources: http://bible.org 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 
 
_______________________________________________ 
Linux4christians mailing list 
Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net 
http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians 

 
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From jm at allensonthe.net  Tue Oct 26 23:33:34 2010
From: jm at allensonthe.net (Jon Mark Allen)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 22:33:34 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 21:40,  <shengchieh at linuxmail.org> wrote:
> I recently recommend to my church not to use Facebook
> because of all the privacy concern.? Instead use diaspora
> when it is officially released (in alpha right now).
>
> http://www.joindiaspora.com/
> Btw, just today, someone released a firefox add-on
> showing how easy it is to spoof other accounts.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20101027/bs_nf/75781
>
> Sheng-Chieh
>

diaspora will not be any better than Facebook (FB), since it seems the
main complaint of FB (in this thread) seems not just to be privacy
concerns, but the content (and that term is used loosely here) that is
posted by others.  What's more, the content you are exposed to on FB
is greatly determined by who you choose to be your "friends".

If the reason for leaving FB is to avoid exposure to trash, diaspora
is not the answer. Diaspora is supposed to be a "distributed social
network" so that the information posted isn't controlled by any one
person/group/company/etc... And it certainly *isn't* a "intentionally
Christian social networking resource".

Since humans will still be using diaspora, I fully expect the content
to be the same.

For those worried about privacy - FB only discloses what you choose to
give them.  The Internet is not private. Never has been. Never will
be. If something is sensitive - *don't put it on the Internet*.
Period.

That's not to say I agree with FB's privacy policy, or their habit of
changing it seemingly without notice to their users.  I'm simply
saying I'm not indignant or even terribly concerned about what they
disclose, since if I put it on the Internet (even for just my group of
"private friends"), I'm not surprised when it is no longer private.

Lastly, Firesheep (the tool referred to in the above Yahoo! news link)
is not specific to FB, and is meant to show web application developers
the criticality of encrypting sensitive information in all
websites/webapps.  The tool can currently hijack sessions for Google,
Facebook, Twitter, and Flickr when your computer is on insecure
networks (i.e. at the coffee shop).  And since it's open source, I'm
sure other sites will be added in the near future.

This is *not* a FB-only problem, and does not in my mind give any
further motivation for moving away from FB and to something else.
(I'm not claiming Sheng-Chieh indicated that it was FB specific - just
making sure everyone knows it's not)

You may already have plenty of motivation to leave FB, and that's fine
and I don't blame you.  But I would hate to see you leave something
for good reasons, only to find the grass isn't greener on the other
side.

With all respect,

JM

/* If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't
been much of a day.
-- John A. Wheeler */

From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org  Wed Oct 27 01:31:48 2010
From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger)
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2010 23:31:48 -0600
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>

What privacy concerns?  I don't reveal anything on Facebook that I would be
uncomfortable standing in an auditorium shouting to the crowds.  I know
Facebook gives some of my information to advertisers; that's how they
provide the service for free.  A backwater alternative might be more secure,
but unless all 117 of my friends from three churches, school friends over
the past 40 years and relatives move to the new service at the same time,
there's no incentive to change.

As for trash -- that's not on Facebook, that's in the accounts of people you
associate with.  If you're offended by trash on your friends' pages, you
have bigger problems than what you're seeing on your computer screen.  You
need to think about what kind of friends you have, and look for
opportunities to witness to them.

You can use Facebook for the positive benefits while avoiding the unhealthy
aspects -- just like being "in the world, but not of the world".  I wouldn't
use it at all, except it's the only way I was able to find old friends I
haven't seen in 30 years.  If I can do that on some other service, I'll
switch in a heartbeat!

And Pastor David sez:

> The Bible warns that you *will* be negatively impacted if
>  you spend too much time with non-Christians and/or immersed
> in non-Christian environments. Heed God's warning!
>

That sounds a trifle legalistic.  Where does it say that?  How much is too
much time?  Does my neighborhood count as a non-Christian environment?  Who
decides which sites are sufficiently Christian themed to be safe for
immersion?  My take on that kind of alarmism is, if we put everything we
have into "Love God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength,
and all your mind" and "Love your neighbor as you love yourself", we're
ahead of the game and the little things will take care of themselves.  You
can wall yourself off in a sterile approved-for-Christians environment all
you want, but as Paul said none of that matters if you don't have love.

Anyway... sorry to be argumentative.  I admire your urge to keep the garbage
off your computer; I just respectfully disagree that getting out of FB will
do much to accomplish that goal.

Shalom,
*PBS*

On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 8:40 PM, <shengchieh at linuxmail.org> wrote:

>  I recently recommend to my church not to use Facebook
> because of all the privacy concern.  Instead use diaspora
> when it is officially released (in alpha right now).
>
>  http://www.joindiaspora.com/
>
> Btw, just today, someone released a firefox add-on
> showing how easy it is to spoof other accounts.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20101027/bs_nf/75781
>
> Sheng-Chieh
>
>
>
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From l4c at thelinuxlink.net  Wed Oct 27 08:08:37 2010
From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 08:08:37 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CC81645.2030004@thelinuxlink.net>

Peter B. Steiger wrote:
> What privacy concerns?  I don't reveal anything on Facebook that I would 
> be uncomfortable standing in an auditorium shouting to the crowds.  I 
> know Facebook gives some of my information to advertisers; that's how 
> they provide the service for free.  A backwater alternative might be 
> more secure, but unless all 117 of my friends from three churches, 
> school friends over the past 40 years and relatives move to the new 
> service at the same time, there's no incentive to change.
> 
> As for trash -- that's not on Facebook, that's in the accounts of people 
> you associate with.  If you're offended by trash on your friends' pages, 
> you have bigger problems than what you're seeing on your computer 
> screen.  You need to think about what kind of friends you have, and look 
> for opportunities to witness to them.
> 
> You can use Facebook for the positive benefits while avoiding the 
> unhealthy aspects -- just like being "in the world, but not of the 
> world".  I wouldn't use it at all, except it's the only way I was able 
> to find old friends I haven't seen in 30 years.  If I can do that on 
> some other service, I'll switch in a heartbeat!
> 
> And Pastor David sez:
> 
>     The Bible warns that you *will* be negatively impacted if 
>     you spend too much time with non-Christians and/or immersed 
>     in non-Christian environments. Heed God's warning!
> 
> 
> That sounds a trifle legalistic.  Where does it say that?  How much is 
> too much time?  Does my neighborhood count as a non-Christian 
> environment?  Who decides which sites are sufficiently Christian themed 
> to be safe for immersion?  My take on that kind of alarmism is, if we 
> put everything we have into "Love God with all your heart, all your 
> soul, all your strength, and all your mind" and "Love your neighbor as 
> you love yourself", we're ahead of the game and the little things will 
> take care of themselves.  You can wall yourself off in a sterile 
> approved-for-Christians environment all you want, but as Paul said none 
> of that matters if you don't have love.
> 
> Anyway... sorry to be argumentative.  I admire your urge to keep the 
> garbage off your computer; I just respectfully disagree that getting out 
> of FB will do much to accomplish that goal.
> 
> Shalom,
> */PBS/*

I am right there with you Pete.  The Lord didn't tell us to go out into 
all the world and then sequester and alienate yourselves (Mark 16:15). 
Shine the light of Christ and all (Mt 5:14-16).  Befriend the 
friendless, show God to the Godless, help the helpless, be bold for God 
(Mt 10:32).  There are far too many Christians who are too ashamed or 
scared to share the hope that is in them (1 Pet 3:15).

You can use the tools of the "world" responsibly, respectfully and 
safely.  I do it and so can you. And if you happen to get "bumped" along 
the ride, do not bruise and complain so easily.  Learn from it and go 
along your way.  There are people always watching "how those crazy 
stupid Christians" react to things.  They can learn many things from 
watching you if you only show them the right things..  Show them grace, 
compassion, help, hope, patience, kindness.  Show them what Jesus really 
would do.

My $.02 anyway..

-- 
-Rev. Linc. Fessenden

In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct 27 12:00:07 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:00:07 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CC81645.2030004@thelinuxlink.net>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC81645.2030004@thelinuxlink.net>
Message-ID: <4CC84C87.8020909@bibleseven.com>

Is the promotion of gambling, dating-services based primarily on
appearance, and other body-obsessed products blessed by God
and edifying to Christians?  Those are major themes of Facebook
ads.  The owners of Facebook are definitely not Christian-friendly.

I am in Deuteronomy and I hardly get the message that God would
have been pleased to find the Israelites immersed in the secular-
controlled world of Facebook.

This has *nothing* to do with "legalism", it has everything to do
with *intentional Christian living*.  We need to understand the
difference.

Christian fellowship and Evangelical-missions are two radically
different things which often utilize very different tools and require
different types of accountability and guidelines.  When they are
confused or intermingled we sacrifice both -- and we irresponsibly
place "these little ones" in harms-way -- failing to "protect My sheep".

One would be reckless to send an alcoholic into a bar to evangelize
but we send people with all manner of unresolved vulnerabilities into
the social meatgrinder of Facebook when they should be in the safe
context of an intentionally-Christian social networking system.

Christian fellowship belongs in an intentionally-Christian context,
as free of worldly distractions as possible.  Is someone going to
assert *Biblically* that this is not so?

Evangelical-missions is only a part of the time spent by a believer,
is always to be done with a great deal of prayer, requires intentional
accountability to be sure the one evangelizing is not him/herself
being "evangelized" by the world, and always involves some degree
of spiritual warfare -- otherwise the "evangelist" is no danger to the
enemy and is therefore useless to God.

It is Facebook marketing propaganda that you control with whom
and in what environment you interact when the reality is that there is
a lot of uncontrollable advertising and huge pressure to multiply your
"friends" count.

We must never fall prey to the deception that if we think (usually
wrongly) that we, as leaders, are safe and strong "out there in the
world" that everyone else is as well.  When leaders fall constantly
how much more difficult is it for those not immersed in prayer
and in the Word?

There is a reason why Christians have so little impact upon the
world around them - they have incrementally sold-out to the world
and like "the frog in the kettle" have not noticed that they are being
cooked in that broth of subtle deception.

Easy test - turn off the TV for 3-6 months then turn it on.  You *will*
be offended.  Whay weren't you offended before?  Incremental
surrender to the things of the world.

I have been forcing myself to look at some of the more current
movies and trailers online and have come to an Ecclesiastes 1:2-3
conclusion "All is futile ..." and an Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 decision,
"Fear God ad keep His commandments ... God will evaluate every
deed ..."  Hollywood is generally a portal to Hell and the same may
be said of most of the Internet.  I will continue to use the Internet
daily as a tool -- but intensely and intentionally aware that danger
lurks at every click of the mouse button.  This is, I believe, wisdom
from the Holy Spirit (not wisdom invented by me).

And, just because some of the self-labeled Christian and "safe" tools
are neither does not mean that one does not or could not exist.

BTW:  IMHO ... if God wants you to re-connect with friends from
30yrs past He is able -- without Facebook.  I have serious doubts
that He cares if you ever "look back", ask Lot's wife, but that's another
discussion with lots of other variables ...  :-)

Sorry to sound terse ... I am growing weary of the unnecessarily broken
bodies and spirits out there.  (They are burying the probably unsaved
and 52 years of wasted life body of my brother-in-law today.  He is
a classic illustration of a deceived man.  He was raised in a "Catholic
church" and he refused a relationship with God, as does his still-living
father, who is a leader in that "church".)

> > You can use Facebook for the positive benefits while avoiding the
> > unhealthy aspects -- just like being "in the world, but not of the
> > world".  I wouldn't use it at all, except it's the only way I was
> > able to find old friends I haven't seen in 30 years.  If I can do
> > that on some other service, I'll switch in a heartbeat!
> >
>  I am right there with you Pete.  The Lord didn't tell us to go out
>  into all the world and then sequester and alienate yourselves (Mark
>  16:15). Shine the light of Christ and all (Mt 5:14-16).  Befriend the
>  friendless, show God to the Godless, help the helpless, be bold for
>  God (Mt 10:32).  There are far too many Christians who are too
>  ashamed or scared to share the hope that is in them (1 Pet 3:15).
>
>  You can use the tools of the "world" responsibly, respectfully and
>  safely.  I do it and so can you. And if you happen to get "bumped"
>  along the ride, do not bruise and complain so easily.  Learn from it
>  and go along your way.  There are people always watching "how those
>  crazy stupid Christians" react to things.  They can learn many things
>  from watching you if you only show them the right things..  Show them
>  grace, compassion, help, hope, patience, kindness.  Show them what
>  Jesus really would do.
>
>  My $.02 anyway..
>


-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From treed873 at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 12:53:39 2010
From: treed873 at gmail.com (Todd)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 12:53:39 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CC84C87.8020909@bibleseven.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>	<4CC81645.2030004@thelinuxlink.net>
	<4CC84C87.8020909@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <4CC85913.100@gmail.com>


I really don't have a problem with Facebook. I don't see any of the ads 
because I use an ad-blocker on my browser. Everything I put on Facebook 
I realize is public and keep that in mind for everything I post. Not to 
mention the fact that most of the people I am friends with are Christian 
themselves. I also like the ability to keep tabs on my teenager. He is 
not permitted on there unless he is friends  with me.

To say Facebook is sinful is a bit legalistic. It is all a matter of 
perspective. Moderation is the key. The bible does not mention social 
network sites in the same way as drunkenness or lying. That is where the 
Holy Spirit comes in. He is there to guide us by way of conviction, if 
we will listen. I respect people who are convicted about these things. 
But on the other hand, people who are convicted about it cannot take on 
the role of the Holy Spirit and blanket everyone with _their_ 
convictions. Do Christians go to movies? Do Christians watch tv? Do 
Christians eat  chocolate? These things in of themselves are not 
specifically sinful. But they can lead to sin if done in the wrong way, 
or overindulged. Respectfully,

Todd

pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote:
> Is the promotion of gambling, dating-services based primarily on
> appearance, and other body-obsessed products blessed by God
> and edifying to Christians?  Those are major themes of Facebook
> ads.  The owners of Facebook are definitely not Christian-friendly.
>
> I am in Deuteronomy and I hardly get the message that God would
> have been pleased to find the Israelites immersed in the secular-
> controlled world of Facebook.
>
> This has *nothing* to do with "legalism", it has everything to do
> with *intentional Christian living*.  We need to understand the
> difference.
>
> Christian fellowship and Evangelical-missions are two radically
> different things which often utilize very different tools and require
> different types of accountability and guidelines.  When they are
> confused or intermingled we sacrifice both -- and we irresponsibly
> place "these little ones" in harms-way -- failing to "protect My sheep".
>
> One would be reckless to send an alcoholic into a bar to evangelize
> but we send people with all manner of unresolved vulnerabilities into
> the social meatgrinder of Facebook when they should be in the safe
> context of an intentionally-Christian social networking system.
>
> Christian fellowship belongs in an intentionally-Christian context,
> as free of worldly distractions as possible.  Is someone going to
> assert *Biblically* that this is not so?
>
> Evangelical-missions is only a part of the time spent by a believer,
> is always to be done with a great deal of prayer, requires intentional
> accountability to be sure the one evangelizing is not him/herself
> being "evangelized" by the world, and always involves some degree
> of spiritual warfare -- otherwise the "evangelist" is no danger to the
> enemy and is therefore useless to God.
>
> It is Facebook marketing propaganda that you control with whom
> and in what environment you interact when the reality is that there is
> a lot of uncontrollable advertising and huge pressure to multiply your
> "friends" count.
>
> We must never fall prey to the deception that if we think (usually
> wrongly) that we, as leaders, are safe and strong "out there in the
> world" that everyone else is as well.  When leaders fall constantly
> how much more difficult is it for those not immersed in prayer
> and in the Word?
>
> There is a reason why Christians have so little impact upon the
> world around them - they have incrementally sold-out to the world
> and like "the frog in the kettle" have not noticed that they are being
> cooked in that broth of subtle deception.
>
> Easy test - turn off the TV for 3-6 months then turn it on.  You *will*
> be offended.  Whay weren't you offended before?  Incremental
> surrender to the things of the world.
>
> I have been forcing myself to look at some of the more current
> movies and trailers online and have come to an Ecclesiastes 1:2-3
> conclusion "All is futile ..." and an Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 decision,
> "Fear God ad keep His commandments ... God will evaluate every
> deed ..."  Hollywood is generally a portal to Hell and the same may
> be said of most of the Internet.  I will continue to use the Internet
> daily as a tool -- but intensely and intentionally aware that danger
> lurks at every click of the mouse button.  This is, I believe, wisdom
> from the Holy Spirit (not wisdom invented by me).
>
> And, just because some of the self-labeled Christian and "safe" tools
> are neither does not mean that one does not or could not exist.
>
> BTW:  IMHO ... if God wants you to re-connect with friends from
> 30yrs past He is able -- without Facebook.  I have serious doubts
> that He cares if you ever "look back", ask Lot's wife, but that's another
> discussion with lots of other variables ...  :-)
>
> Sorry to sound terse ... I am growing weary of the unnecessarily broken
> bodies and spirits out there.  (They are burying the probably unsaved
> and 52 years of wasted life body of my brother-in-law today.  He is
> a classic illustration of a deceived man.  He was raised in a "Catholic
> church" and he refused a relationship with God, as does his still-living
> father, who is a leader in that "church".)
>
>> > You can use Facebook for the positive benefits while avoiding the
>> > unhealthy aspects -- just like being "in the world, but not of the
>> > world".  I wouldn't use it at all, except it's the only way I was
>> > able to find old friends I haven't seen in 30 years.  If I can do
>> > that on some other service, I'll switch in a heartbeat!
>> >
>>  I am right there with you Pete.  The Lord didn't tell us to go out
>>  into all the world and then sequester and alienate yourselves (Mark
>>  16:15). Shine the light of Christ and all (Mt 5:14-16).  Befriend the
>>  friendless, show God to the Godless, help the helpless, be bold for
>>  God (Mt 10:32).  There are far too many Christians who are too
>>  ashamed or scared to share the hope that is in them (1 Pet 3:15).
>>
>>  You can use the tools of the "world" responsibly, respectfully and
>>  safely.  I do it and so can you. And if you happen to get "bumped"
>>  along the ride, do not bruise and complain so easily.  Learn from it
>>  and go along your way.  There are people always watching "how those
>>  crazy stupid Christians" react to things.  They can learn many things
>>  from watching you if you only show them the right things..  Show them
>>  grace, compassion, help, hope, patience, kindness.  Show them what
>>  Jesus really would do.
>>
>>  My $.02 anyway..
>>
>
>


From fmiller at lightlink.com  Wed Oct 27 19:41:02 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 19:41:02 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CC81645.2030004@thelinuxlink.net>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC81645.2030004@thelinuxlink.net>
Message-ID: <4CC8B88E.10504@lightlink.com>

On 10/27/2010 08:08 AM, l4c wrote:

[snip]
> I am right there with you Pete.  The Lord didn't tell us to go out
> into all the world and then sequester and alienate yourselves (Mark
> 16:15). Shine the light of Christ and all (Mt 5:14-16).  Befriend the
> friendless, show God to the Godless, help the helpless, be bold for
> God (Mt 10:32).  There are far too many Christians who are too ashamed
> or scared to share the hope that is in them (1 Pet 3:15).
>
> You can use the tools of the "world" responsibly, respectfully and
> safely.  I do it and so can you. And if you happen to get "bumped"
> along the ride, do not bruise and complain so easily.  Learn from it
> and go along your way.  There are people always watching "how those
> crazy stupid Christians" react to things.  They can learn many things
> from watching you if you only show them the right things..  Show them
> grace, compassion, help, hope, patience, kindness.  Show them what
> Jesus really would do.
>
> My $.02 anyway.. 

Yepper!!

Fred

-- 
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson

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From jonathon.blake at gmail.com  Wed Oct 27 20:08:22 2010
From: jonathon.blake at gmail.com (jonathon)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:08:22 +0000
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CC8BEF6.3040704@gmail.com>

On 10/27/2010 05:31 AM, Peter B. Steiger wrote:

> As for trash -- that's not on Facebook, that's in the accounts of people you associate with.  

You do realize that third parties can add content to your wall (or
whatever FaceBook calls it) even if they aren't your friend, and you
configured things so that that purportedly won't happen, don't you;

> need to think about what kind of friends you have,

You need to consider the amount of junk that Facebook throws on one's
page, regardless of who or what one has listed as a friend.

jonathon
-- 
No human will see non-list, non-bulk, non-junk email sent to this address.
It all gets forwarded to /dev/null

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Wed Oct 27 21:21:34 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2010 21:21:34 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday - Deuteronomy 20-21
Message-ID: <4CC8D01E.5050900@bibleseven.com>


    Thursday


      Deuteronomy 20-21


Laws Concerning War with Distant Enemies

20:1 When you go to war against your enemies and see chariotry and 
troops who outnumber you, do not be afraid of them, for the Lord your 
God, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt, is with you. 20:2 As 
you move forward for battle, the priest will approach and say to the 
soldiers, 20:3 "Listen, Israel! Today you are moving forward to do 
battle with your enemies. Do not be fainthearted. Do not fear and 
tremble or be terrified because of them, 20:4 for the Lord your God goes 
with you to fight on your behalf against your enemies to give you 
victory." 20:5 Moreover, the officers are to say to the troops, "Who 
among you has built a new house and not dedicated it? He may go home, 
lest he die in battle and someone else dedicate it. 20:6 Or who among 
you has planted a vineyard and not benefited from it? He may go home, 
lest he die in battle and someone else benefit from it. 20:7 Or who 
among you has become engaged to a woman but has not married her? He may 
go home, lest he die in battle and someone else marry her." 20:8 In 
addition, the officers are to say to the troops, "Who among you is 
afraid and fainthearted? He may go home so that he will not make his 
fellow soldier's heart as fearful as his own." 20:9 Then, when the 
officers have finished speaking, they must appoint unit commanders to 
lead the troops.

20:10 When you approach a city to wage war against it, offer it terms of 
peace. 20:11 If it accepts your terms and submits to you, all the people 
found in it will become your slaves. 20:12 If it does not accept terms 
of peace but makes war with you, then you are to lay siege to it. 20:13 
The Lord your God will deliver it over to you and you must kill every 
single male by the sword. 20:14 However, the women, little children, 
cattle, and anything else in the city -- all its plunder -- you may take 
for yourselves as spoil. You may take from your enemies the plunder that 
the Lord your God has given you. 20:15 This is how you are to deal with 
all those cities located far from you, those that do not belong to these 
nearby nations.

Laws Concerning War with Canaanite Nations

20:16 As for the cities of these peoples that the Lord your God is going 
to give you as an inheritance, you must not allow a single living thing 
to survive. 20:17 Instead you must utterly annihilate them -- the 
Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites, and Jebusites -- 
just as the Lord your God has commanded you, 20:18 so that they cannot 
teach you all the abhorrent ways they worship their gods, causing you to 
sin against the Lord your God. 20:19 If you besiege a city for a long 
time while attempting to capture it, you must not chop down its trees, 
for you may eat fruit from them and should not cut them down. A tree in 
the field is not human that you should besiege it! 20:20 However, you 
may chop down any tree you know is not suitable for food, and you may 
use it to build siege works against the city that is making war with you 
until that city falls.

Laws Concerning Unsolved Murder

21:1 If a homicide victim should be found lying in a field in the land 
the Lord your God is giving you, and no one knows who killed him, 21:2 
your elders and judges must go out and measure how far it is to the 
cities in the vicinity of the corpse. 21:3 Then the elders of the city 
nearest to the corpse must take from the herd a heifer that has not been 
worked -- that has never pulled with the yoke -- 21:4 and bring the 
heifer down to a wadi with flowing water, to a valley that is neither 
plowed nor sown. There at the wadi they are to break the heifer's neck. 
21:5 Then the Levitical priests will approach (for the Lord your God has 
chosen them to serve him and to pronounce blessings in his name, and to 
decide every judicial verdict) 21:6 and all the elders of that city 
nearest the corpse must wash their hands over the heifer whose neck was 
broken in the valley. 21:7 Then they must proclaim, "Our hands have not 
spilled this blood, nor have we witnessed the crime. 21:8 Do not blame 
your people Israel whom you redeemed, O Lord, and do not hold them 
accountable for the bloodshed of an innocent person." Then atonement 
will be made for the bloodshed. 21:9 In this manner you will purge out 
the guilt of innocent blood from among you, for you must do what is 
right before the Lord.

Laws Concerning Wives

21:10 When you go out to do battle with your enemies and the Lord your 
God allows you to prevail and you take prisoners, 21:11 if you should 
see among them an attractive woman whom you wish to take as a wife, 
21:12 you may bring her back to your house. She must shave her head, 
trim her nails, 21:13 discard the clothing she was wearing when 
captured, and stay in your house, lamenting for her father and mother 
for a full month. After that you may have sexual relations with her and 
become her husband and she your wife. 21:14 If you are not pleased with 
her, then you must let her go where she pleases. You cannot in any case 
sell her; you must not take advantage of her, since you have already 
humiliated her.

Laws Concerning Children

21:15 Suppose a man has two wives, one whom he loves more than the 
other, and they both bear him sons, with the firstborn being the child 
of the less loved wife. 21:16 In the day he divides his inheritance he 
must not appoint as firstborn the son of the favorite wife in place of 
the other wife's son who is actually the firstborn. 21:17 Rather, he 
must acknowledge the son of the less loved wife as firstborn and give 
him the double portion of all he has, for that son is the beginning of 
his father's procreative power -- to him should go the right of the 
firstborn.

21:18 If a person has a stubborn, rebellious son who pays no attention 
to his father or mother, and they discipline him to no avail, 21:19 his 
father and mother must seize him and bring him to the elders at the gate 
of his city. 21:20 They must declare to the elders of his city, "Our son 
is stubborn and rebellious and pays no attention to what we say -- he is 
a glutton and drunkard." 21:21 Then all the men of his city must stone 
him to death. In this way you will purge out wickedness from among you, 
and all Israel will hear about it and be afraid.

Disposition of a Criminal's Remains

21:22 If a person commits a sin punishable by death and is executed, and 
you hang the corpse on a tree, 21:23 his body must not remain all night 
on the tree; instead you must make certain you bury him that same day, 
for the one who is left exposed on a tree is cursed by God. You must not 
defile your land which the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance.



      Prayer


Lord, it was a primitive time in history yet as You provided strong 
orders for conquest and tough regulations to preserve civilization, You 
also injected grace. May I remember that when I exert authority to be a 
person of grace.



      Commentary


The Lord God, through Moses, reminds the Israelites to not fear the 
difficult challenges ahead as they dispossess great armies of large 
nations from the Land; He promises to go ahead and assure their victory, 
even as He gives permission to release from service those men who are 
recently engaged, fearful, have recently build but not dedicated a new 
home, or whose new vineyard has not seen its first harvest.

They are instructed to offer terms of peace to a city they approach, if 
accepted all of the people become their slaves, otherwise they take it 
and kill all of the adult males and take the rest as slaves along with 
their valuables as plunder.

They were to obliterate the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, 
Hivites, and Jebusites as they were implacable enemies of God. They were 
to be sure to not participate in any of their pagan practices, but as 
they stormed the cities they were to be wise stewards, preserving the 
trees which produced edible food and destroying only those non-food 
trees necessary to the war effort.

Where there was an unsolved murder the elders of the nearest city were 
given a ritual to demonstrate that they neither committed the crime nor 
knew who did.

A captured woman must mourn her family and then may be taken as a wife. 
If the captor-husband changes his mind he is to release her wherever she 
chooses as he has already humiliated her once.

The firstborn received honor and a double-portion as an inheritance, 
even if he was the child of the less-loved of two wives. If any son was 
rebellious and a lazy glutton he was to be brought to the elders and if 
they found him unrepentant he was to be stoned to death so that he did 
not spread his evil ways to others.

One executed by hanging was to be buried before nightfall so as to not 
be cursed by God, and so that the curse does not extend to the people.



      Interaction


        Consider this:

Destroying the cities and their places of false worship breaks the 
history of the presence of the displaced people, executing or enslaving 
the males (if they surrender) prevents rebellion and intermarriage, and 
taking the rest as slaves and their valuables as plunder fits the 
context of these nations only allowed in the promised land to labor in 
anticipation of God giving them and the product of their labors to His 
chosen people.


        Discuss this:

Why would the Lord God feel that it was necessary to warn the Israelites 
over and over to avoid any involvement with the local pagan religions?



        Reflect on this:

Disobedience in the matter of religious practices or of a child was 
taken very seriously to protect the health of the whole community.


        Share this:

When have you been blessed by the grace of God in a difficult situation?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may bless someone with an act 
of grace.



        Action:

Today I will begin the day with a prayer for an opportunity to allow God 
to pour His grace through you into the life of someone who is having a 
difficult time.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Friday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 22



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From fmiller at lightlink.com  Thu Oct 28 00:00:54 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:00:54 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over design
	issues
Message-ID: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>

*Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over design issues*
<http://ifwnewsletters.newsletters.infoworld.com/t/6910772/120843337/333385/0/>

Canonical shook the Linux world yesterday when it announced that the
next version of Ubuntu -- "Natty Narwhal," or version 11.04 -- will no
longer use the GNOME interface by default. Instead, Natty will feature
Unity, the multitouch and 3D-enabled interface that made its debut
earlier this month in the distribution's netbook edition of Maverick
Meerkat, or Ubuntu 10.10. *Read More*
<http://ifwnewsletters.newsletters.infoworld.com/t/6910772/120843337/333385/0/>


-- 
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson

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From gorkon at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 00:16:00 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 00:16:00 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>

Overblown.....

As long as Ubuntu releases the code, it's ok by me.  Unity doesn't
replace gnome either.

Much ado about nothing.

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 12:00 AM, Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com> wrote:
> Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over design issues
> Canonical shook the Linux world yesterday when it announced that the next
> version of Ubuntu -- "Natty Narwhal," or version 11.04 -- will no longer use
> the GNOME interface by default. Instead, Natty will feature Unity, the
> multitouch and 3D-enabled interface that made its debut earlier this month
> in the distribution's netbook edition of Maverick Meerkat, or Ubuntu 10.10.
> Read More
>
> --
> "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
> Thomas Jefferson
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From d.kuntadi at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 00:22:24 2010
From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 11:22:24 +0700
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Overblown.....
>
> As long as Ubuntu releases the code, it's ok by me. ?Unity doesn't
> replace gnome either.
>
> Much ado about nothing.

Somebody could release gubuntu (gnome ubuntu) to continue gnome. So,
we will have ubuntu, gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.

DK

From l4c at thelinuxlink.net  Thu Oct 28 07:52:15 2010
From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 07:52:15 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME
 over	design issues
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>

David Kuntadi wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Overblown.....
>>
>> As long as Ubuntu releases the code, it's ok by me.  Unity doesn't
>> replace gnome either.
>>
>> Much ado about nothing.
> 
> Somebody could release gubuntu (gnome ubuntu) to continue gnome. So,
> we will have ubuntu, gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.
> 
> DK

I will just continue to use Linux Mint. They have been traditionally 
resistant to the "crazy changes" Ubuntu has undertaken, even though they 
are based on Ubuntu.

-- 
-Linc Fessenden

In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...

From preston.lists at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 09:26:55 2010
From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 08:26:55 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME
 over	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
Message-ID: <4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>

l4c wrote:
> David Kuntadi wrote:
<snipped>
>> Somebody could release gubuntu (gnome ubuntu) to continue gnome. So,
>> we will have ubuntu, gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.
>>
> 
> I will just continue to use Linux Mint. They have been traditionally 
> resistant to the "crazy changes" Ubuntu has undertaken, even though they 
> are based on Ubuntu.
> 

I believe that Linux Mint transitioned to Debian in the latest release 
(or possibly the next release).  Popular move and will give them a more 
stable base.

On a side note, check out Peppermint Linux which is based off of Mint 
and put together by Mint contributors:
http://peppermintos.com/

It will be interesting to see where Ubuntu goes and how the whole of 
Linux moves.  Ubuntu has brought a lot of people to the Linux side of 
the aisle and they have a huge following.

-- 

Arrant Drivel - really, it's just trash...
http://www.arrantdrivel.com/

Where the road takes me - a highwayman's perspective
http://www.prestonboyington.com/

From l4c at thelinuxlink.net  Thu Oct 28 10:44:51 2010
From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 10:44:51 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME
 over	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
	<4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CC98C63.60101@thelinuxlink.net>

Preston Boyington wrote:
> l4c wrote:
>> David Kuntadi wrote:
> <snipped>
>>> Somebody could release gubuntu (gnome ubuntu) to continue gnome. So,
>>> we will have ubuntu, gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.
>>>
>>
>> I will just continue to use Linux Mint. They have been traditionally 
>> resistant to the "crazy changes" Ubuntu has undertaken, even though 
>> they are based on Ubuntu.
>>
> 
> I believe that Linux Mint transitioned to Debian in the latest release 
> (or possibly the next release).  Popular move and will give them a more 
> stable base.

It's a separate project, but very interesting.

> On a side note, check out Peppermint Linux which is based off of Mint 
> and put together by Mint contributors:
> http://peppermintos.com/

I really have to check that out - it has been mentioned to me several 
times now.


-- 
-Linc Fessenden

In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...

From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Thu Oct 28 13:13:57 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:13:57 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
Message-ID: <1288286037.3499.4.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 07:52 -0400, l4c wrote:
> David Kuntadi wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Overblown.....
> >>
> >> As long as Ubuntu releases the code, it's ok by me.  Unity doesn't
> >> replace gnome either.
> >>
> >> Much ado about nothing.
> > 
> > Somebody could release gubuntu (gnome ubuntu) to continue gnome. So,
> > we will have ubuntu, gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.
> > 
> > DK
> 
> I will just continue to use Linux Mint. They have been traditionally 
> resistant to the "crazy changes" Ubuntu has undertaken, even though they 
> are based on Ubuntu.

  I'm on 10.04LTS, so I won't have actually make a choice for at least
two years, and by that time, we'll see if traditional Gnome is available
for the next LTS release.



From gorkon at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 13:29:15 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:29:15 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <1288286037.3499.4.camel@P-733-Lin>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
	<1288286037.3499.4.camel@P-733-Lin>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=-UHSn-nDfoEz5Y=ZLxs1K8X7MQi8ys8zY2zST@mail.gmail.com>

It should be as they are NOT doing away with GNOME!

There's only 6 packages.  4 that make up the main code and 2
libraries.  In fact, it has many parts of Gnome in it's dependencies.

So....why worry about it?

Plus another thing....we all took at least 2 leaps of faith.  One when
we decided to follow Christ, one when we decided Linux is what we
wanted to use other than Windows.  I look at this the same way.  Unity
is a very different interface in many respects.  Ubuntu is trying to
push the envelope and make a change to something we've been used to
even before we left Windows.  Also, The Unity of 10.10 UNE won't be
the Unity of 11.04.  It probably WON'T restrict you from running
multiple overlapping windows.  EVEN then, at least SOMEONE is trying
to INNOVATE!  Not even Microsoft is getting as risky as Unity might
be.



On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 1:13 PM, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 07:52 -0400, l4c wrote:
>> David Kuntadi wrote:
>> > On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Joel Mclaughlin <gorkon at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Overblown.....
>> >>
>> >> As long as Ubuntu releases the code, it's ok by me. ?Unity doesn't
>> >> replace gnome either.
>> >>
>> >> Much ado about nothing.
>> >
>> > Somebody could release gubuntu (gnome ubuntu) to continue gnome. So,
>> > we will have ubuntu, gubuntu, kubuntu, xubuntu and lubuntu.
>> >
>> > DK
>>
>> I will just continue to use Linux Mint. They have been traditionally
>> resistant to the "crazy changes" Ubuntu has undertaken, even though they
>> are based on Ubuntu.
>
> ?I'm on 10.04LTS, so I won't have actually make a choice for at least
> two years, and by that time, we'll see if traditional Gnome is available
> for the next LTS release.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From tbutler at ofb.biz  Thu Oct 28 13:39:45 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 12:39:45 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>

I'd say this is brilliant. It'll give Canonical more control over its destiny without really causing any compatibility issues, since Unity is just a GNOME shell that isn't GNOME Shell. 

Its sort of like Android: the only way for Linux to really take off on the end user side of things, I think, is for one company to take it and mold it into a unified, visionary whole. Canonical has vision.

	-Tim

On Oct 27, 2010, at 11:00 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote:

> Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over design issues 
> Canonical shook the Linux world yesterday when it announced that the next version of Ubuntu -- "Natty Narwhal," or version 11.04         -- will no longer use the GNOME interface by default. Instead, Natty will feature Unity, the multitouch and 3D-enabled interface that made its debut earlier this month in the distribution's netbook edition of Maverick Meerkat, or Ubuntu 10.10. Read More
> -- 
> "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
> Thomas Jefferson
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians

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From preston.lists at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 14:05:31 2010
From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:05:31 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>

Timothy Butler wrote:
> I'd say this is brilliant. It'll give Canonical more control over its 
> destiny without really causing any compatibility issues, since Unity is 
> just a GNOME shell that isn't GNOME Shell. 
> 
> Its sort of like Android: the only way for Linux to really take off on 
> the end user side of things, I think, is for one company to take it and 
> mold it into a unified, visionary whole. Canonical has vision.
> 
<snipped>

I just remember the days when Red Hat was the biggest on the block and 
decided to "tweak" the libs to run better in their distro.  It caused a 
big fuss.

The altered/variant GNOME desktop isn't new either.  Remember when Red 
Hat brought out their Bluecurve desktop (maybe ver 8?) they got flack 
from media and users, but still remained viable.

So basically I'm saying that I think Canonical is in a very similar 
position as Red Hat was in the late 90's.  It will be interesting to see 
what they do as time goes on.


-- 

Arrant Drivel - really, it's just trash...
http://www.arrantdrivel.com/

Where the road takes me - a highwayman's perspective
http://www.prestonboyington.com/

From gorkon at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 14:30:26 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 14:30:26 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>
	<4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTimA3p1Q0a+WVArba5wv9-Fq9mEmx0Q07uM+f-qZ@mail.gmail.com>

It's a bigger difference although it was one that had to be made at
the time if I remember right.  Wasn't it a libc that they were
changing which would BREAK a ton of apps?

Anyway, if we keep doing what we're doing and only making incremental
improvements on what we have, then we'll NEVER go any further than we
are now.  Sometimes the jump needs to be made.

Gee, kind of like our walk with Christ eh?



On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Preston Boyington
<preston.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Timothy Butler wrote:
>>
>> I'd say this is brilliant. It'll give Canonical more control over its
>> destiny without really causing any compatibility issues, since Unity is just
>> a GNOME shell that isn't GNOME Shell.
>> Its sort of like Android: the only way for Linux to really take off on the
>> end user side of things, I think, is for one company to take it and mold it
>> into a unified, visionary whole. Canonical has vision.
>>
> <snipped>
>
> I just remember the days when Red Hat was the biggest on the block and
> decided to "tweak" the libs to run better in their distro. ?It caused a big
> fuss.
>
> The altered/variant GNOME desktop isn't new either. ?Remember when Red Hat
> brought out their Bluecurve desktop (maybe ver 8?) they got flack from media
> and users, but still remained viable.
>
> So basically I'm saying that I think Canonical is in a very similar position
> as Red Hat was in the late 90's. ?It will be interesting to see what they do
> as time goes on.
>
>
> --
>
> Arrant Drivel - really, it's just trash...
> http://www.arrantdrivel.com/
>
> Where the road takes me - a highwayman's perspective
> http://www.prestonboyington.com/
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From preston.lists at gmail.com  Thu Oct 28 14:46:25 2010
From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 13:46:25 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTimA3p1Q0a+WVArba5wv9-Fq9mEmx0Q07uM+f-qZ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>	<4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
	<AANLkTimA3p1Q0a+WVArba5wv9-Fq9mEmx0Q07uM+f-qZ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CC9C501.9020604@gmail.com>

Joel Mclaughlin wrote:
> It's a bigger difference although it was one that had to be made at
> the time if I remember right.  Wasn't it a libc that they were
> changing which would BREAK a ton of apps?

I believe you're right.

> Anyway, if we keep doing what we're doing and only making incremental
> improvements on what we have, then we'll NEVER go any further than we
> are now.  Sometimes the jump needs to be made.
> 
> Gee, kind of like our walk with Christ eh?
> 

LOL!  yes, I agree.

(nice tie back to the list)



-- 

Arrant Drivel - really, it's just trash...
http://www.arrantdrivel.com/

Where the road takes me - a highwayman's perspective
http://www.prestonboyington.com/

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Thu Oct 28 19:15:34 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:15:34 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday - Deuteronomy 22
Message-ID: <4CCA0416.8090209@bibleseven.com>


    Friday


      Deuteronomy 22


Laws Concerning Preservation of Life

22:1 When you see your neighbor's ox or sheep going astray, do not 
ignore it; you must return it without fail to your neighbor. 22:2 If the 
owner does not live near you or you do not know who the owner is, then 
you must corral the animal at your house and let it stay with you until 
the owner looks for it; then you must return it to him. 22:3 You shall 
do the same to his donkey, his clothes, or anything else your neighbor 
has lost and you have found; you must not refuse to get involved. 22:4 
When you see your neighbor's donkey or ox fallen along the road, do not 
ignore it; instead, you must be sure to help him get the animal on its 
feet again.

22:5 A woman must not wear men's clothing, nor should a man dress up in 
women's clothing, for anyone who does this is offensive to the Lord your 
God.

22:6 If you happen to notice a bird's nest along the road, whether in a 
tree or on the ground, and there are chicks or eggs with the mother bird 
sitting on them, you must not take the mother from the young. 22:7 You 
must be sure to let the mother go, but you may take the young for 
yourself. Do this so that it may go well with you and you may have a 
long life.

22:8 If you build a new house, you must construct a guard rail around 
your roof to avoid being culpable in the event someone should fall from it.

Illustrations of the Principle of Purity

22:9 You must not plant your vineyard with two kinds of seed; otherwise 
the entire yield, both of the seed you plant and the produce of the 
vineyard, will be defiled. 22:10 You must not plow with an ox and a 
donkey harnessed together. 22:11 You must not wear clothing made with 
wool and linen meshed together. 22:12 You shall make yourselves tassels 
for the four corners of the clothing you wear.

Purity in the Marriage Relationship

22:13 Suppose a man marries a woman, has sexual relations with her, and 
then rejects her, 22:14 accusing her of impropriety and defaming her 
reputation by saying, "I married this woman but when I had sexual 
relations with her I discovered she was not a virgin!" 22:15 Then the 
father and mother of the young woman must produce the evidence of 
virginity for the elders of the city at the gate. 22:16 The young 
woman's father must say to the elders, "I gave my daughter to this man 
and he has rejected her. 22:17 Moreover, he has raised accusations of 
impropriety by saying, 'I discovered your daughter was not a virgin,' 
but this is the evidence of my daughter's virginity!" The cloth must 
then be spread out before the city's elders. 22:18 The elders of that 
city must then seize the man and punish him. 22:19 They will fine him 
one hundred shekels of silver and give them to the young woman's father, 
for the man who made the accusation ruined the reputation of an 
Israelite virgin. She will then become his wife and he may never divorce 
her as long as he lives.

22:20 But if the accusation is true and the young woman was not a 
virgin, 22:21 the men of her city must bring the young woman to the door 
of her father's house and stone her to death, for she has done a 
disgraceful thing in Israel by behaving like a prostitute while living 
in her father's house. In this way you will purge evil from among you.

22:22 If a man is caught having sexual relations with a married woman 
both the man who had relations with the woman and the woman herself must 
die; in this way you will purge evil from Israel.

22:23 If a virgin is engaged to a man and another man meets her in the 
city and has sexual relations with her, 22:24 you must bring the two of 
them to the gate of that city and stone them to death, the young woman 
because she did not cry out though in the city and the man because he 
violated his neighbor's fiance; in this way you will purge evil from 
among you. 22:25 But if the man came across the engaged woman in the 
field and overpowered her and raped her, then only the rapist must die. 
22:26 You must not do anything to the young woman -- she has done 
nothing deserving of death. This case is the same as when someone 
attacks another person and murders him, 22:27 for the man met her in the 
field and the engaged woman cried out, but there was no one to rescue her.

22:28 Suppose a man comes across a virgin who is not engaged and 
overpowers and rapes her and they are discovered. 22:29 The man who has 
raped her must pay her father fifty shekels of silver and she must 
become his wife because he has violated her; he may never divorce her as 
long as he lives.

22:30 (23:1) A man may not marry his father's former wife and in this 
way dishonor his father.



      Prayer


Lord, You call upon us to be caring and ethical participants in the 
community of faith-in-You, You said so for the ancient Israelites, and 
You have said so Christians. May I be found faithful in both caring and 
ethical in all of my dealings with fellow believers.



      Commentary


The Lord God set the standard for a successful civilization, one that 
was healthy, and one that was sustainable. He instructed His people to 
care about the well-being of one another and to be helpful and ethical 
in all of their dealings.

Cross-dressing was prohibited, one was not to remove a mother bird from 
the babies -- leaving them to die unattended -- but it was OK to take 
the babies and eggs, and a guard rail was to be placed around the 
roof-edge so that people up there might not fall (many roofs were flat 
and were used for social gatherings).

They were not to mix types of grape seed together as they would 
cross-pollinate and change the nature of the grapes, and they were not 
to put an ox and donkey together in harness as the ox would drag the 
donkey around until it injured or killed it.

Continuing the illustrations of purity; they were not to mix wool and 
linen - this was an unethical way to make material less expensively, 
wool and linen hold and release moisture differently and wool is less 
likely to feel moist whereas linen would -- possibly leading to 
misjudging dry linen and dry-feeling wool as truly dry -- leading to the 
early rotting of the linen, and some have speculated that wool and linen 
handle static electricity differently leading to potential skin reactions.

A man must treat his new wife with honor. If he falsely accused her of 
not being a virgin at marriage he was to be fined, the money to be given 
to her father, and could never divorce her. If it proved true that she 
was not a virgin then she was to be stoned to death at her father's 
doorstep.

Adultery between a man and the wife of another required both to be 
stoned to death.

If a man sexually assaulted a woman in the city and she failed to cry 
out and be rescued then both are to be stoned to death -- as there was 
the assumption that she was in-agreement. If the same occurred in the 
fields then only the man was to be stoned as she was unable to cry out 
and be rescued. If the virgin is not engaged the man must pay a fine to 
her father and marry her and may never divorce her.

A man may not marry his father's former wife. [The text is unclear as to 
whether the woman was a widow or divorced. The text does not specify the 
father's memory but only the father so one may reasonably, but not 
exclusively, postulate that it is his living father who would be 
dishonored by the son's action. The text also does not state that the 
son is adopted, the child of a different woman by his father, or the 
biological child of both father and mother -- but the implication of the 
text is the latter -- making the action one of incest.]


      Interaction


        Consider

Healthy family and healthy neighborhoods have always been essential to 
healthy civilizations.


        Discuss

Why and/or how might confusion as to gender identity, intimate 
relationships, and social roles undermine the well-being of a civilization?



        Reflect

The Lord God applied wisdom not only to human interactions but also to 
the consequences of mixing crops, unequally-yoking work animals, and 
mixing fabrics so that there was an unmistakable consistency to His 
teaching about balance and intentional integrity in all things.


        Share

When have you discovered that something taught in the Old Testament 
applied to your life in a very practical way today?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you an opportunity to care about and 
serve another believer.



        Action:

Today I will ask the Holy Spirit in prayer to show me an opportunity to 
notice a fellow believer in need and to meet that need as He has 
provided. I will remain alert and sensitive to His guidance so that I am 
both aware and wise.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Saturday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 23-24



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From fmiller at lightlink.com  Thu Oct 28 19:26:02 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:26:02 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Microsoft to charge royalty fees to prevent Acer,
 Asustek from using Android in netbooks, say Taiwan makers
Message-ID: <4CCA068A.7070901@lightlink.com>

Microsoft plans to impose royalty fees on Taiwan-based vendors of
Android handsets for using its patents in e-mail, multimedia and other
functions, with Acer and Asustek Computer being targets in an actual
attempt to prevent the two vendors from adopting Android and Chrome OS
for their netbook and tablet PCs, according to Taiwan-based makers.

http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20101025PD218.html

-- 
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson

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From fmiller at lightlink.com  Thu Oct 28 19:33:14 2010
From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 19:33:14 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME
 over	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net> <4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CCA083A.1040603@lightlink.com>

On 10/28/2010 09:26 AM, Preston Boyington wrote:

[snip]

> I believe that Linux Mint transitioned to Debian in the latest release
> (or possibly the next release).  Popular move and will give them a
> more stable base.
>
> On a side note, check out Peppermint Linux which is based off of Mint
> and put together by Mint contributors:
> http://peppermintos.com/
>
> It will be interesting to see where Ubuntu goes and how the whole of
> Linux moves.  Ubuntu has brought a lot of people to the Linux side of
> the aisle and they have a huge following. 

And, they MIGHT loose it.

Fred

-- 
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson

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From shengchieh at linuxmail.org  Thu Oct 28 22:43:01 2010
From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:43:01 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] How to reach the next generation ? (was
	Christian Alternatives to Facebook)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com><8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>


 Thank to everybody about replying about diaspora and comments about Facebook.
In my church, we are thinking about how we can become a 22nd century church.
And how to use technologies to reach the the next generation.  Teens and tweens
especially use Facebook and other social medias as well as text excessively.

If diaspora is not an answer, then what?

[I definitely don't recommend Facebook - don't want to entice members to have
privacy issues.  So relatively speaking diaspora is better than Facebook.  But
what is the best solution?]

Sheng-Chieh


 


 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Mark Allen <jm at allensonthe.net>
To: Linux for Christians <linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Oct 26, 2010 8:33 pm
Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook


On Tue, Oct 26, 2010 at 21:40,  <shengchieh at linuxmail.org> wrote:
> I recently recommend to my church not to use Facebook
> because of all the privacy concern.  Instead use diaspora
> when it is officially released (in alpha right now).
>
> http://www.joindiaspora.com/
> Btw, just today, someone released a firefox add-on
> showing how easy it is to spoof other accounts.
>
> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20101027/bs_nf/75781
>
> Sheng-Chieh
>

diaspora will not be any better than Facebook (FB), since it seems the
main complaint of FB (in this thread) seems not just to be privacy
concerns, but the content (and that term is used loosely here) that is
posted by others.  What's more, the content you are exposed to on FB
is greatly determined by who you choose to be your "friends".

If the reason for leaving FB is to avoid exposure to trash, diaspora
is not the answer. Diaspora is supposed to be a "distributed social
network" so that the information posted isn't controlled by any one
person/group/company/etc... And it certainly *isn't* a "intentionally
Christian social networking resource".

Since humans will still be using diaspora, I fully expect the content
to be the same.

For those worried about privacy - FB only discloses what you choose to
give them.  The Internet is not private. Never has been. Never will
be. If something is sensitive - *don't put it on the Internet*.
Period.

That's not to say I agree with FB's privacy policy, or their habit of
changing it seemingly without notice to their users.  I'm simply
saying I'm not indignant or even terribly concerned about what they
disclose, since if I put it on the Internet (even for just my group of
"private friends"), I'm not surprised when it is no longer private.

Lastly, Firesheep (the tool referred to in the above Yahoo! news link)
is not specific to FB, and is meant to show web application developers
the criticality of encrypting sensitive information in all
websites/webapps.  The tool can currently hijack sessions for Google,
Facebook, Twitter, and Flickr when your computer is on insecure
networks (i.e. at the coffee shop).  And since it's open source, I'm
sure other sites will be added in the near future.

This is *not* a FB-only problem, and does not in my mind give any
further motivation for moving away from FB and to something else.
(I'm not claiming Sheng-Chieh indicated that it was FB specific - just
making sure everyone knows it's not)

You may already have plenty of motivation to leave FB, and that's fine
and I don't blame you.  But I would hate to see you leave something
for good reasons, only to find the grass isn't greener on the other
side.

With all respect,

JM

/* If you haven't found something strange during the day, it hasn't
been much of a day.
-- John A. Wheeler */
_______________________________________________
Linux4christians mailing list
Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians

 
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From tbutler at ofb.biz  Thu Oct 28 23:20:09 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:20:09 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>
	<4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2152F000-210F-4F7D-B69F-132FC934F7F5@ofb.biz>


On Oct 28, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Preston Boyington wrote:

> So basically I'm saying that I think Canonical is in a very similar position as Red Hat was in the late 90's.  It will be interesting to see what they do as time goes on.

Yup. I remember those days.

I think the big difference I see with Canonical is that they are actually building a cohesive vision not just to change things, but to make a compelling desktop offering. Their various initiatives are going a long way to bringing Linux up to feature parity with Mac OS X, while doing it in ways that are not just mimicking what Cupertino's already done. I never got the sense that Null or Blue Curve made a huge difference in the system.

Unity may or may not fail. But, I think it is interesting how Ubuntu is essentially drawing on a FOSS base, but doing so in a way that is blending things together into something different.

	-Tim

From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Thu Oct 28 23:31:46 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 23:31:46 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] How to reach the next generation ?
 (was	Christian Alternatives to Facebook)
In-Reply-To: <8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com><8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>	<AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <4CCA4022.8050700@bibleseven.com>

Job-one is to educate Christian leaders who are actively promoting
Facebook without a clue as to the potentially-destructive consequences
-- it is the Saddleback influence.

There is no excuse whatsoever to direct Christians to Facebook when
the alternatives are numerous and less worldly.  If God wants me to
talk to some functional-stranger from 10, 20, or 30 years ago He Is
Able to get it done without Facebook.  And that's a fact.

Our 13 year old daugher was in my office a little earlier pleading
her case for a Facebook account.

I informed her that if those with whom she would like to communicate
are too lazy or selfish to check their E-mail in order to communicate
with her then they are not truly friends at all - and if they demand that
she expose herself unnecessarily to the *unavoidable garbage* on
Facebook in order to communicate with them on the Internet then they
are lousy Christians as well.

We have to teach the differnce between *a Biblical context for fellowship*
and evangelical-missions *outreach* (by definition "outreach" means that
you are "in" some place).

Our flock is weak and dying as Islam and witchcraft and Eastern mysticism
and agnosticism and atheism all speak with confidence - because our sheep
have no safe place to go to fellowship.  There are no "still waters" where
they may rest together in peace.  They are dying of Sonless-poisoning.

>  Thank to everybody about replying about diaspora and comments about
>  Facebook. In my church, we are thinking about how we can become a
>  22nd century church. And how to use technologies to reach the the
>  next generation.  Teens and tweens especially use Facebook and other
>  social medias as well as text excessively.
>
>  If diaspora is not an answer, then what?
>
>  [I definitely don't recommend Facebook - don't want to entice members
>  to have privacy issues.  So relatively speaking diaspora is better
>  than Facebook.  But what is the best solution?]
>
>  Sheng-Chieh


-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


From tbutler at ofb.biz  Thu Oct 28 23:40:26 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2010 22:40:26 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] How to reach the next generation ? (was
	Christian Alternatives to Facebook)
In-Reply-To: <8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com><8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <338EEB28-0D58-43E4-8D65-7D53B7FA85ED@ofb.biz>


On Oct 28, 2010, at 9:43 PM, shengchieh at linuxmail.org wrote:

> [I definitely don't recommend Facebook - don't want to entice members to have
> privacy issues.  So relatively speaking diaspora is better than Facebook.  But
> what is the best solution?]

I tend to think if you want to reach people by social media today, you pretty much have to live with Facebook. And, with common sense, privacy issues can be reduced to a minimum.

There are issues, but isn't that true of any interaction with "people"?

	-Tim
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From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Fri Oct 29 00:37:47 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:37:47 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>
	<4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <1288327067.7460.4.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 13:05 -0500, Preston Boyington wrote:
> Timothy Butler wrote:
> > I'd say this is brilliant. It'll give Canonical more control over its 
> > destiny without really causing any compatibility issues, since Unity is 
> > just a GNOME shell that isn't GNOME Shell. 
> > 
> > Its sort of like Android: the only way for Linux to really take off on 
> > the end user side of things, I think, is for one company to take it and 
> > mold it into a unified, visionary whole. Canonical has vision.
> > 
> <snipped>
> 
> I just remember the days when Red Hat was the biggest on the block and 
> decided to "tweak" the libs to run better in their distro.  It caused a 
> big fuss.
> 
> The altered/variant GNOME desktop isn't new either.  Remember when Red 
> Hat brought out their Bluecurve desktop (maybe ver 8?) they got flack 
> from media and users, but still remained viable.
> 
> So basically I'm saying that I think Canonical is in a very similar 
> position as Red Hat was in the late 90's.  It will be interesting to see 
> what they do as time goes on.

  NLD and oS11.* both use a tweaked version of gnome, for NLD I happen
to like it, it makes sense in a business atmosphere, but for the kind of
home user that I am, I prefer classic (current?) Gnome.  I will at some
point do a VB install and look at it sanely instead of just reacting to
the change, then I'll decide.



From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net  Fri Oct 29 00:45:18 2010
From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 00:45:18 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CCA083A.1040603@lightlink.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>
	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net> <4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>
	<4CCA083A.1040603@lightlink.com>
Message-ID: <1288327518.7460.8.camel@P-733-Lin>

On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 19:33 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
> On 10/28/2010 09:26 AM, Preston Boyington wrote:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> > I believe that Linux Mint transitioned to Debian in the latest
> > release (or possibly the next release).  Popular move and will give
> > them a more stable base. 
> > 
> > On a side note, check out Peppermint Linux which is based off of
> > Mint and put together by Mint contributors: 
> > http://peppermintos.com/ 
> > 
> > It will be interesting to see where Ubuntu goes and how the whole of
> > Linux moves.  Ubuntu has brought a lot of people to the Linux side
> > of the aisle and they have a huge following. 
> 
> And, they MIGHT loose it.

  That will depend on what they do.  Honestly, I can tolerate a new UI a
whole lot easier than I can updates sending solidly working stuff south
(yeah I do mean oS).


From l4c at thelinuxlink.net  Fri Oct 29 07:57:55 2010
From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 07:57:55 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] How to reach the next generation ?
 (was	Christian Alternatives to Facebook)
In-Reply-To: <4CCA4022.8050700@bibleseven.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com><8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>	<AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>	<8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
	<4CCA4022.8050700@bibleseven.com>
Message-ID: <4CCAB6C3.1020301@thelinuxlink.net>

pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote:
> Job-one is to educate Christian leaders who are actively promoting
> Facebook without a clue as to the potentially-destructive consequences
> -- it is the Saddleback influence.
> 
> There is no excuse whatsoever to direct Christians to Facebook when
> the alternatives are numerous and less worldly.  If God wants me to
> talk to some functional-stranger from 10, 20, or 30 years ago He Is
> Able to get it done without Facebook.  And that's a fact.
> 
> Our 13 year old daugher was in my office a little earlier pleading
> her case for a Facebook account.
> 
> I informed her that if those with whom she would like to communicate
> are too lazy or selfish to check their E-mail in order to communicate
> with her then they are not truly friends at all - and if they demand that
> she expose herself unnecessarily to the *unavoidable garbage* on
> Facebook in order to communicate with them on the Internet then they
> are lousy Christians as well.
> 
> We have to teach the differnce between *a Biblical context for fellowship*
> and evangelical-missions *outreach* (by definition "outreach" means that
> you are "in" some place).
> 
> Our flock is weak and dying as Islam and witchcraft and Eastern mysticism
> and agnosticism and atheism all speak with confidence - because our sheep
> have no safe place to go to fellowship.  There are no "still waters" where
> they may rest together in peace.  They are dying of Sonless-poisoning.
> 
>>  Thank to everybody about replying about diaspora and comments about
>>  Facebook. In my church, we are thinking about how we can become a
>>  22nd century church. And how to use technologies to reach the the
>>  next generation.  Teens and tweens especially use Facebook and other
>>  social medias as well as text excessively.
>>
>>  If diaspora is not an answer, then what?
>>
>>  [I definitely don't recommend Facebook - don't want to entice members
>>  to have privacy issues.  So relatively speaking diaspora is better
>>  than Facebook.  But what is the best solution?]
>>
>>  Sheng-Chieh
> 
> 

You know, David, that I disagree with you wholeheartedly, and I am 
starting to take offense to the insinuation that I am not educated on 
the matter, either technically (I am a career System Administrator) or 
spiritually (as an ex pastor and long time ordained minister).  Now 
*YOU* may not like Facebook, or the internet at large or TV or certain 
books or what have you, however let's get something straight here.

You can fellowship with other Christians anywhere.  The Bible plainly 
states this in Matthew 18:20.

The Bible also states that there is no safe place for Christians as in 
Luke 21:12 and John 15:21.

You are insinuating that God cannot possibly use Facebook (or whatever 
other "evil" technology is at hand) for good.  Romans 8:28 contradicts 
that as well.  In fact, if you really want to reach people, to fulfill 
the great commission, perhaps we should all give some serious 
consideration to putting ALL these avenues of communication to task.

If you don't like Facebook, or what have you, then don't use them, but 
don't dictate to others (as a pastor anyway, I can totally understand as 
a parent) that those tools are inherently evil.  It's just another tool. 
    Instead perhaps educate and caution and advise on the correct use of 
the tool?

I am not going to argue this any further because I do not want another 
list blowout, but I have cited my Biblical references above and I 
believe we can agree to disagree without bringing into doubt the 
Christianity or education of the other party.

-- 
-Linc Fessenden

In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right...

From gorkon at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 08:22:35 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:22:35 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] How to reach the next generation ? (was
 Christian Alternatives to Facebook)
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTim6ASjj1MPwGf8O3BNQ8CqWg1M=NGn9tkuxdekb@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
	<4CCA4022.8050700@bibleseven.com>
	<4CCAB6C3.1020301@thelinuxlink.net>
	<AANLkTim6ASjj1MPwGf8O3BNQ8CqWg1M=NGn9tkuxdekb@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin17_P3oh5u_wezzAL5Hp6vm=5Sw+WJQmZAaEQJ@mail.gmail.com>

This is why I love Linc.  GREAT points and good scripture.

If we EVER want to reach the unreached we need to GO where they are.
Matthew 5:14 says "You are the light of the world".  That means we need ro
bring the light to the dark areas of the world.  That means we need a
Christian presence on Facebook.

I can understand protecting kids, however we shouldn't shelter them from
everything.  We should TALK with them when they encounter evil.  We should
teach them the Bible and why some things are evil.  If we totally wall them
off, then when they go out on their own I would be more afraid.  When our
kids encounter evil, we need to use it as a lesson.
On Oct 29, 2010 7:58 AM, "l4c" <l4c at thelinuxlink.net> wrote:
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From preston.lists at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 09:15:15 2010
From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:15:15 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <1288327518.7460.8.camel@P-733-Lin>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>	<AANLkTimHWO7pn4ST3R551dGyL2jKw+6OvBH9b+xsYiGd@mail.gmail.com>	<AANLkTingKv=DLVphe=jXkDaz37eUL1FarfTXZVjuzs+M@mail.gmail.com>	<4CC963EF.6010908@thelinuxlink.net>
	<4CC97A1F.7080804@gmail.com>	<4CCA083A.1040603@lightlink.com>
	<1288327518.7460.8.camel@P-733-Lin>
Message-ID: <4CCAC8E3.8060504@gmail.com>

Mike McMullin wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 19:33 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote:
>> On 10/28/2010 09:26 AM, Preston Boyington wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>> It will be interesting to see where Ubuntu goes and how the whole of
>>> Linux moves.  Ubuntu has brought a lot of people to the Linux side
>>> of the aisle and they have a huge following. 
>> And, they MIGHT loose it.
> 
>   That will depend on what they do.  Honestly, I can tolerate a new UI a
> whole lot easier than I can updates sending solidly working stuff south
> (yeah I do mean oS).
> 

Agreed

Though, to be fair, since Ubuntu has a "hard" release timeline of every 
6 months (I suppose that is still in effect) they "massage" snapshots of 
Debian's "Testing" branch so it will play nice with that set of 
packages.  Then the next release comes along and those may or may not 
play well with the previous release.  This is what soured me on Ubuntu. 
  (I am told that they now have a LTS offering that is more solid over a 
greater span of time, but I've not tried it as yet.)

Personally, I prefer Debian (stable) on my desktop while I run a mixed 
environment on my laptop (or whatever distro I'm playing with that 
week).  This way I can "have my cake and eat it too".

I'll not be soon forgetting the untimely X-windows update that killed my 
graphics before I submitted my income tax...


From preston.lists at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 09:32:19 2010
From: preston.lists at gmail.com (Preston Boyington)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:32:19 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
 design issues
In-Reply-To: <2152F000-210F-4F7D-B69F-132FC934F7F5@ofb.biz>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>	<4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
	<2152F000-210F-4F7D-B69F-132FC934F7F5@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <4CCACCE3.4010503@gmail.com>

Timothy Butler wrote:
> On Oct 28, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Preston Boyington wrote:
> 
>> So basically I'm saying that I think Canonical is in a very similar position as Red Hat was in the late 90's.  It will be interesting to see what they do as time goes on.
> 
> Yup. I remember those days.
> 
> I think the big difference I see with Canonical is that they are actually building a cohesive vision not just to change things, but to make a compelling desktop offering. Their various initiatives are going a long way to bringing Linux up to feature parity with Mac OS X, while doing it in ways that are not just mimicking what Cupertino's already done. I never got the sense that Null or Blue Curve made a huge difference in the system.
> 
> Unity may or may not fail. But, I think it is interesting how Ubuntu is essentially drawing on a FOSS base, but doing so in a way that is blending things together into something different.
> 

Without a doubt, Ubuntu has done a great deal for Linux as a whole and I 
believe that they will continue to do so.  Heck, when I look at the 
desktop I have today as opposed a what I had just a couple years ago I'm 
floored (and installers!  Bless those folks that work so hard on the 
installers!  WOW! I'm amazed at how far those have come).

Like anything else though, you will always have people fussing and 
asking "Can I get the icon in cornflower blue?"


From gorkon at gmail.com  Fri Oct 29 09:56:55 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 09:56:55 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Canonical Ubuntu splits from GNOME over
	design issues
In-Reply-To: <4CCACCE3.4010503@gmail.com>
References: <4CC8F576.4090805@lightlink.com>
	<5EFB6E74-4C71-49EF-BF6D-A2011F03419C@ofb.biz>
	<4CC9BB6B.50704@gmail.com>
	<2152F000-210F-4F7D-B69F-132FC934F7F5@ofb.biz>
	<4CCACCE3.4010503@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTin33dwAjLrS9VZjUQ1QX4gT4GBF2Ttvw4FvTt1q@mail.gmail.com>

The color thing doesn't bother me as Linux is open enough that you can
change those things!

The thing that bothers me is the griping about what Ubuntu is doing
both in trying to innovate and trying to sustain itself.

Case in point, Ubuntu One.  Ubuntu One is hardly essential to a Linux
desktop, but it is something some people want.  Paying for a little
cloud storage is a great thing and Ubuntu gets to make a little money
in the process.

Plus there's the Ubuntu One Music store.  Sure, it's MP3, but really
how many music companies do you think even know what Ogg Vorbis is??
I just think it's great that we have somewhere integrated into
Rhythmbox where we can buy music JUST like a light version of iTunes.
Did I need it?  No, I could have always bought off of Amazon, but I
think it's great that we finally have this.  Plus I am sure buying
music there will help Canonical get a few dollars they need to keep
people like Jono and the developers employed.  Not a bad thing!

Finally there's Ubuntu Software Center.  Mostly a nice front end for
Apt, but they are looking at doing some interesting things with it
like maybe providing a way to donate to Open Source developers!  What
an awesome idea!  The best thing, however, is you can still use
Synaptic and just plain old apt-get to install things as well.  That's
a good thing....a VERY good thing.

The thing is, Ubuntu has made Open Source better.  They have made
important strides in polish and usability of the Linux desktop.  Ones
that the rest of the distros should really look at.  Ubuntu is doing
more than putting a distro together which can be done by a loit of
people (hence the numerous distros).  What Ubuntu is going is TRULY
trying to make Linux better than it's ever been.  Linux is GREAT but
even as good as it is, there are certain things that Microsoft and
Apple both do better.





On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 9:32 AM, Preston Boyington
<preston.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
> Timothy Butler wrote:
>>
>> On Oct 28, 2010, at 1:05 PM, Preston Boyington wrote:
>>
>>> So basically I'm saying that I think Canonical is in a very similar
>>> position as Red Hat was in the late 90's. ?It will be interesting to see
>>> what they do as time goes on.
>>
>> Yup. I remember those days.
>>
>> I think the big difference I see with Canonical is that they are actually
>> building a cohesive vision not just to change things, but to make a
>> compelling desktop offering. Their various initiatives are going a long way
>> to bringing Linux up to feature parity with Mac OS X, while doing it in ways
>> that are not just mimicking what Cupertino's already done. I never got the
>> sense that Null or Blue Curve made a huge difference in the system.
>>
>> Unity may or may not fail. But, I think it is interesting how Ubuntu is
>> essentially drawing on a FOSS base, but doing so in a way that is blending
>> things together into something different.
>>
>
> Without a doubt, Ubuntu has done a great deal for Linux as a whole and I
> believe that they will continue to do so. ?Heck, when I look at the desktop
> I have today as opposed a what I had just a couple years ago I'm floored
> (and installers! ?Bless those folks that work so hard on the installers!
> ?WOW! I'm amazed at how far those have come).
>
> Like anything else though, you will always have people fussing and asking
> "Can I get the icon in cornflower blue?"
>
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org  Fri Oct 29 10:54:40 2010
From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger)
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2010 08:54:40 -0600
Subject: [Linux4christians] How to reach the next generation ? (was
 Christian Alternatives to Facebook)
In-Reply-To: <4CCAB6C3.1020301@thelinuxlink.net>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTinxdNPpQ2L7a9FXswUMGNLPCUe+8cJULboTKZVM@mail.gmail.com>
	<8CD452A238E1498-1F50-14A9F@web-mmc-d09.sysops.aol.com>
	<4CCA4022.8050700@bibleseven.com>
	<4CCAB6C3.1020301@thelinuxlink.net>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinPmQGYPRaLmTDR8qTL=YJX5zmJHPGj_gsQK_h7@mail.gmail.com>

Well put, Linc.  For what it's worth, you've got my vote of confidence.  I
don't have the theological training to back you up, but as a systems analyst
I know what Facebook can and cannot do (despite the oftimes panicky warnings
people email around to one another) and I certainly know the Bible does not
encourage us to call other Christians "lazy" and "selfish" because they
choose a means of communication I have concerns about.

Yes, God can enable friends to communicate without Facebook.  But He can
also *use* Facebook to further His kingdom.  And that, too, is a fact.

Garbage is where you go looking for it.  Since I started using Facebook, I
have never seen one reference to pornography, sexual immorality, substance
abuse, or other forms of hedonism -- not in the sidebar ads and certainly
not in the content of my friends' pages.  I see people praising God for His
work in their lives, I see people asking after one another's health and jobs
and children, I see people asking for and offering prayer for difficult
circumstances.  All these messages that glorify God are visible not just to
other Christians, but to our unchurched friends who have access to our
pages.

Tell me again how that's a bad thing?

If you're concerned as a parent what your daughter might get into on
Facebook, demand that she give you full privileges to view everything on her
page.  Even demand that she give you her password so you can log on and see
what she sees.  If you find that it really is all that offensive, you can
change the password, delete the account, and tell us how wrong we all are.

Peter B. Steiger
Cheyenne, WY
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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct 30 00:11:21 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 00:11:21 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday - Deuteronomy 23-24
Message-ID: <4CCB9AE9.2080501@bibleseven.com>


    Saturday


      Deuteronomy 23-24


Purity in Public Worship

23:1 A man with crushed or severed genitals may not enter the assembly 
of the Lord. 23:2 A person of illegitimate birth may not enter the 
assembly of the Lord; to the tenth generation no one related to him may 
do so.

23:3 An Ammonite or Moabite may not enter the assembly of the Lord; to 
the tenth generation none of their descendants shall ever do so, 23:4 
for they did not meet you with food and water on the way as you came 
from Egypt, and furthermore, they hired Balaam son of Beor of Pethor in 
Aram Naharaim to curse you. 23:5 But the Lord your God refused to listen 
to Balaam and changed the curse to a blessing, for the Lord your God 
loves you. 23:6 You must not seek peace and prosperity for them through 
all the ages to come. 23:7 You must not hate an Edomite, for he is your 
relative; you must not hate an Egyptian, for you lived as a foreigner in 
his land. 23:8 Children of the third generation born to them may enter 
the assembly of the Lord.

Purity in Personal Hygiene

23:9 When you go out as an army against your enemies, guard yourselves 
against anything impure. 23:10 If there is someone among you who is 
impure because of some nocturnal emission, he must leave the camp; he 
may not reenter it immediately. 23:11 When evening arrives he must wash 
himself with water and then at sunset he may reenter the camp.

23:12 You are to have a place outside the camp to serve as a latrine. 
23:13 You must have a spade among your other equipment and when you 
relieve yourself outside you must dig a hole with the spade and then 
turn and cover your excrement. 23:14 For the Lord your God walks about 
in the middle of your camp to deliver you and defeat your enemies for 
you. Therefore your camp should be holy, so that he does not see 
anything indecent among you and turn away from you.

Purity in the Treatment of the Nonprivileged

23:15 You must not return an escaped slave to his master when he has run 
away to you. 23:16 Indeed, he may live among you in any place he 
chooses, in whichever of your villages he prefers; you must not oppress him.

Purity in Cultic Personnel

23:17 There must never be a sacred prostitute among the young women of 
Israel nor a sacred male prostitute among the young men of Israel. 23:18 
You must never bring the pay of a female prostitute or the wage of a 
male prostitute into the temple of the Lord your God in fulfillment of 
any vow, for both of these are abhorrent to the Lord your God.

Respect for Others' Property

23:19 You must not charge interest on a loan to your fellow Israelite, 
whether on money, food, or anything else that has been loaned with 
interest. 23:20 You may lend with interest to a foreigner, but not to 
your fellow Israelite; if you keep this command the Lord your God will 
bless you in all you undertake in the land you are about to enter to 
possess. 23:21 When you make a vow to the Lord your God you must not 
delay in fulfilling it, for otherwise he will surely hold you 
accountable as a sinner. 23:22 If you refrain from making a vow, it will 
not be sinful. 23:23 Whatever you vow, you must be careful to do what 
you have promised, such as what you have vowed to the Lord your God as a 
freewill offering. 23:24 When you enter the vineyard of your neighbor 
you may eat as many grapes as you please, but you must not take away any 
in a container. 23:25 When you go into the ripe grain fields of your 
neighbor you may pluck off the kernels with your hand, but you must not 
use a sickle on your neighbor's ripe grain.

24:1 If a man marries a woman and she does not please him because he has 
found something offensive in her, then he may draw up a divorce 
document, give it to her, and evict her from his house. 24:2 When she 
has left him she may go and become someone else's wife. 24:3 If the 
second husband rejects her and then divorces her, gives her the papers, 
and evicts her from his house, or if the second husband who married her 
dies, 24:4 her first husband who divorced her is not permitted to 
remarry her after she has become ritually impure, for that is offensive 
to the Lord. You must not bring guilt on the land which the Lord your 
God is giving you as an inheritance.

24:5 When a man is newly married, he need not go into the army nor be 
obligated in any way; he must be free to stay at home for a full year 
and bring joy to the wife he has married.

24:6 One must not take either lower or upper millstones as security on a 
loan, for that is like taking a life itself as security.

24:7 If a man is found kidnapping a person from among his fellow 
Israelites, and regards him as mere property and sells him, that 
kidnapper must die. In this way you will purge evil from among you.

Respect for Human Dignity

24:8 Be careful during an outbreak of leprosy to follow precisely all 
that the Levitical priests instruct you; as I have commanded them, so 
you should do. 24:9 Remember what the Lord your God did to Miriam along 
the way after you left Egypt.

24:10 When you make any kind of loan to your neighbor, you may not go 
into his house to claim what he is offering as security. 24:11 You must 
stand outside and the person to whom you are making the loan will bring 
out to you what he is offering as security. 24:12 If the person is poor 
you may not use what he gives you as security for a covering. 24:13 You 
must by all means return to him at sunset the item he gave you as 
security so that he may sleep in his outer garment and bless you for it; 
it will be considered a just deed by the Lord your God.

24:14 You must not oppress a lowly and poor servant, whether one from 
among your fellow Israelites or from the resident foreigners who are 
living in your land and villages. 24:15 You must pay his wage that very 
day before the sun sets, for he is poor and his life depends on it. 
Otherwise he will cry out to the Lord against you, and you will be 
guilty of sin.

24:16 Fathers must not be put to death for what their children do, nor 
children for what their fathers do; each must be put to death for his 
own sin.

24:17 You must not pervert justice due a resident foreigner or an 
orphan, or take a widow's garment as security for a loan. 24:18 Remember 
that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God redeemed you 
from there; therefore I am commanding you to do all this. 24:19 Whenever 
you reap your harvest in your field and leave some unraked grain there, 
you must not return to get it; it should go to the resident foreigner, 
orphan, and widow so that the Lord your God may bless all the work you 
do. 24:20 When you beat your olive tree you must not repeat the 
procedure; the remaining olives belong to the resident foreigner, 
orphan, and widow. 24:21 When you gather the grapes of your vineyard you 
must not do so a second time; they should go to the resident foreigner, 
orphan, and widow. 24:22 Remember that you were slaves in the land of 
Egypt; therefore, I am commanding you to do all this.



      Prayer


Lord, You have consistently called upon us to walk before you in 
integrity and to treat one another with honor. May I intentionally 
pursue integrity in my life and treat fellow believers with honor.



      Commentary


Limitations upon access to the tabernacle were placed upon those who 
opposed the Israelites on their way to the promised land and on those 
who served in pagan rituals (the reference to altered genitals, or 
castration). [Note: The NET translators observe that this text does not 
restrict access to God for those with birth defects or injuries.]

Personal hygiene was part of the ritual cleanliness of the Israelite 
soldiers as they entered battle if they were to expect the Lord God to 
be among them.

A runaway slave was not to be force-ably returned to his master but 
allowed to remain. [The text is unclear but the overall prior context 
suggests this may refer only to slaves of non-Israelites.]

Israelites were forbidden to participate in pagan temple prostitution 
and no money belonging to them was ever to be brought into the tabernacle.

Israelites were not allowed to charge one-another interest on a loan, if 
an oath (promise) was made it had to be kept to avoid sin, and one was 
permitted to eat of a neighbor's grain or grapes while passing through 
his property but one was not allowed to fill a container or use a tool 
to harvest.

A man was allowed to divorce his wife and she was then allowed to 
remarry, but if her second husband died or divorced her she was not 
permitted to return to the first.

A newlywed military-age man was allowed to stay at home with his wife 
for a full year before serving in the military.

Because a millstone was necessary to grinding grains to eat they were 
not allowed to be taken as security on a loan.

Kidnapping and selling a fellow Israelite was punishable by death.

One was not permitted to enter a person's home to collect the item 
offered as security but rather respect his home and wait outside.

If a poor Israelite used a warm outer garment as security for a loan the 
garment was to be returned each night so that he'd be warm. A poor 
person was to be paid on time as they were dependent on the money to 
survive.

Each Israelite was to receive punishment for their own crime/sin; a 
father was not to be punished for the sin of the son nor the son for his 
father.

They were reminded that they were once slaves so they were to treat 
resident foreigners and orphans with justice the same as an Israelite 
and an Israelite from an intact family. A widow's garment was not to be 
taken as security for a loan.

So that a poor resident foreigner, widow, or orphan might have something 
to eat the harvesting of crops and vineyards was to allow a little to 
remain for them to harvest to survive.



      Interaction


        Consider

Integrity, justice, and mutual respect were required of the israelites 
by the Lord God.


        Discuss

Why would God deem it necessary to regulate so many elements of 
Israelite life?



        Reflect

While other peoples worshiped false pagan gods who emphasized greed and 
power the Lord God attended to the details of caring and integrity and 
justice.


        Share

When have you been blessed by a fellow believer who was a conduit of 
God's grace?



      Faith in Action


        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you an opportunity to pour caring and 
respect into the life of a fellow believer.



        Action:

Today I will seize the opportunity given me by the Holy Spirit. I will 
share His blessings, encourage the downtrodden, and promote equal value 
for all in the family of believers.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________


*Sunday's text will be:* Deuteronomy 25-27



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From tbutler at ofb.biz  Sat Oct 30 03:04:26 2010
From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 02:04:26 -0500
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CC8BEF6.3040704@gmail.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC8BEF6.3040704@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3B08B8B2-8F80-4ECC-A268-2831C884AFFB@ofb.biz>


On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:08 PM, jonathon wrote:

> You do realize that third parties can add content to your wall (or
> whatever FaceBook calls it) even if they aren't your friend, and you
> configured things so that that purportedly won't happen, don't you;

I'm pretty certain that is not the case. The wall is reserved for friends.

	-Tim

From gorkon at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 04:01:20 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 04:01:20 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <3B08B8B2-8F80-4ECC-A268-2831C884AFFB@ofb.biz>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC8BEF6.3040704@gmail.com>
	<3B08B8B2-8F80-4ECC-A268-2831C884AFFB@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <AANLkTinhBOnif9GbgNB+uR1ZjBrmrBo008F3He8CGHn3@mail.gmail.com>

Yep!  The Wall is for your friends.  If your friends put nasty stuff
on your wall, you can delete it.  Then I would unfriend them.  Ads are
placed in the sidebar.

Honestly, I think the horse is dead! :D



On Sat, Oct 30, 2010 at 3:04 AM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:
>
> On Oct 27, 2010, at 7:08 PM, jonathon wrote:
>
>> You do realize that third parties can add content to your wall (or
>> whatever FaceBook calls it) even if they aren't your friend, and you
>> configured things so that that purportedly won't happen, don't you;
>
> I'm pretty certain that is not the case. The wall is reserved for friends.
>
> ? ? ? ?-Tim
> _______________________________________________
> Linux4christians mailing list
> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net
> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians
>



-- 
Joel McLaughlin
Life in Ohio Podcast
life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com
gorkon at gmail.com
http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com
joel at geardiary.com
geardiary.com

From jonathon.blake at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 06:52:34 2010
From: jonathon.blake at gmail.com (jonathon)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 10:52:34 +0000
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <3B08B8B2-8F80-4ECC-A268-2831C884AFFB@ofb.biz>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>	<4CC8BEF6.3040704@gmail.com>
	<3B08B8B2-8F80-4ECC-A268-2831C884AFFB@ofb.biz>
Message-ID: <4CCBF8F2.7070303@gmail.com>

On 10/30/2010 07:04 AM, Timothy Butler wrote:

> The wall is reserved for friends.

That is the theory, but not the practice.

jonathon
-- 
No human will see non-list, non-bulk, non-junk email sent to this address.
It all gets forwarded to /dev/null

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From gorkon at gmail.com  Sat Oct 30 08:43:33 2010
From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 08:43:33 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Christian Alternatives to Facebook
In-Reply-To: <4CCBF8F2.7070303@gmail.com>
References: <4CC5CC7C.8060803@bibleseven.com>
	<8CD439766B04D25-19A8-ACAB@web-mmc-d04.sysops.aol.com>
	<AANLkTiks+NVwERYh4uXhBM_Y9dRmv70KsVfdAcwqd3Gs@mail.gmail.com>
	<4CC8BEF6.3040704@gmail.com>
	<3B08B8B2-8F80-4ECC-A268-2831C884AFFB@ofb.biz>
	<4CCBF8F2.7070303@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AANLkTi=p2f3oJj32BWE44a3tQVhygWy4e1rY43zvKgHf@mail.gmail.com>

Give me an example.  I hve NEVER seen anything that wasn't related to a
relationship with a friend.  Since FB has moved game updates, this is even
more true and for the game/app updates I still get, I can block them from
showing on the wall.
 On Oct 30, 2010 6:52 AM, "jonathon" <jonathon.blake at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/30/2010 07:04 AM, Timothy Butler wrote:
>
>> The wall is reserved for friends.
>
> That is the theory, but not the practice.
>
> jonathon
> --
> No human will see non-list, non-bulk, non-junk email sent to this address.
> It all gets forwarded to /dev/null
>
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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sat Oct 30 14:15:21 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2010 14:15:21 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday - Deuteronomy 25-27
Message-ID: <4CCC60B9.2050006@bibleseven.com>


    Sunday


      Deuteronomy 25-27


25:1 If controversy arises between people, they should go to court for 
judgment. When the judges hear the case, they shall exonerate the 
innocent but condemn the guilty. 25:2 Then, if the guilty person is 
sentenced to a beating, the judge shall force him to lie down and be 
beaten in his presence with the number of blows his wicked behavior 
deserves. 25:3 The judge may sentence him to forty blows, but no more. 
If he is struck with more than these, you might view your fellow 
Israelite with contempt.

25:4 You must not muzzle your ox when it is treading grain.

Respect for the Sanctity of Others

25:5 If brothers live together and one of them dies without having a 
son, the dead man's wife must not remarry someone outside the family. 
Instead, her late husband's brother must go to her, marry her, and 
perform the duty of a brother-in-law. 25:6 Then the first son she bears 
will continue the name of the dead brother, thus preventing his name 
from being blotted out of Israel. 25:7 But if the man does not want to 
marry his brother's widow, then she must go to the elders at the town 
gate and say, "My husband's brother refuses to preserve his brother's 
name in Israel; he is unwilling to perform the duty of a brother-in-law 
to me!" 25:8 Then the elders of his city must summon him and speak to 
him. If he persists, saying, "I don't want to marry her," 25:9 then his 
sister-in-law must approach him in view of the elders, remove his sandal 
from his foot, and spit in his face. She will then respond, "Thus may it 
be done to any man who does not maintain his brother's family line!" 
25:10 His family name will be referred to in Israel as "the family of 
the one whose sandal was removed."

25:11 If two men get into a hand-to-hand fight, and the wife of one of 
them gets involved to help her husband against his attacker, and she 
reaches out her hand and grabs his genitals, 25:12 then you must cut off 
her hand -- do not pity her.

25:13 You must not have in your bag different stone weights, a heavy and 
a light one. 25:14 You must not have in your house different measuring 
containers, a large and a small one. 25:15 You must have an accurate and 
correct stone weight and an accurate and correct measuring container, so 
that your life may be extended in the land the Lord your God is about to 
give you. 25:16 For anyone who acts dishonestly in these ways is 
abhorrent to the Lord your God.

Treatment of the Amalekites

25:17 Remember what the Amalekites did to you on your way from Egypt, 
25:18 how they met you along the way and cut off all your stragglers in 
the rear of the march when you were exhausted and tired; they were 
unafraid of God. 25:19 So when the Lord your God gives you relief from 
all the enemies who surround you in the land he is giving you as an 
inheritance, you must wipe out the memory of the Amalekites from under 
heaven -- do not forget!

Presentation of the First Fruits

26:1 When you enter the land that the Lord your God is giving you as an 
inheritance, and you occupy it and live in it, 26:2 you must take the 
first of all the ground's produce you harvest from the land the Lord 
your God is giving you, place it in a basket, and go to the place where 
he chooses to locate his name. 26:3 You must go to the priest in office 
at that time and say to him, "I declare today to the Lord your God that 
I have come into the land that the Lord promised to our ancestors to 
give us." 26:4 The priest will then take the basket from you and set it 
before the altar of the Lord your God. 26:5 Then you must affirm before 
the Lord your God, "A wandering Aramean was my ancestor, and he went 
down to Egypt and lived there as a foreigner with a household few in 
number, but there he became a great, powerful, and numerous people. 26:6 
But the Egyptians mistreated and oppressed us, forcing us to do 
burdensome labor. 26:7 So we cried out to the Lord, the God of our 
ancestors, and he heard us and saw our humiliation, toil, and 
oppression. 26:8 Therefore the Lord brought us out of Egypt with 
tremendous strength and power, as well as with great awe-inspiring signs 
and wonders. 26:9 Then he brought us to this place and gave us this 
land, a land flowing with milk and honey. 26:10 So now, look! I have 
brought the first of the ground's produce that you, Lord, have given 
me." Then you must set it down before the Lord your God and worship 
before him. 26:11 You will celebrate all the good things that the Lord 
your God has given you and your family, along with the Levites and the 
resident foreigners among you.

Presentation of the Third-year Tithe

26:12 When you finish tithing all your income in the third year (the 
year of tithing), you must give it to the Levites, the resident 
foreigners, the orphans, and the widows so that they may eat to their 
satisfaction in your villages. 26:13 Then you shall say before the Lord 
your God, "I have removed the sacred offering from my house and given it 
to the Levites, the resident foreigners, the orphans, and the widows 
just as you have commanded me. I have not violated or forgotten your 
commandments. 26:14 I have not eaten anything when I was in mourning, or 
removed any of it while ceremonially unclean, or offered any of it to 
the dead; I have obeyed you and have done everything you have commanded 
me. 26:15 Look down from your holy dwelling place in heaven and bless 
your people Israel and the land you have given us, just as you promised 
our ancestors -- a land flowing with milk and honey."

Narrative Interlude

26:16 Today the Lord your God is commanding you to keep these statutes 
and ordinances, something you must do with all your heart and soul. 
26:17 Today you have declared the Lord to be your God, and that you will 
walk in his ways, keep his statutes, commandments, and ordinances, and 
obey him. 26:18 And today the Lord has declared you to be his special 
people (as he already promised you) so you may keep all his 
commandments. 26:19 Then he will elevate you above all the nations he 
has made and you will receive praise, fame, and honor. You will be a 
people holy to the Lord your God, as he has said.

The Assembly at Shechem

27:1 Then Moses and the elders of Israel commanded the people: "Pay 
attention to all the commandments I am giving you today. 27:2 When you 
cross the Jordan River to the land the Lord your God is giving you, you 
must erect great stones and cover them with plaster. 27:3 Then you must 
inscribe on them all the words of this law when you cross over, so that 
you may enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, a land flowing 
with milk and honey just as the Lord, the God of your ancestors, said to 
you. 27:4 So when you cross the Jordan you must erect on Mount Ebal 
these stones about which I am commanding you today, and you must cover 
them with plaster. 27:5 Then you must build an altar there to the Lord 
your God, an altar of stones -- do not use an iron tool on them. 27:6 
You must build the altar of the Lord your God with whole stones and 
offer burnt offerings on it to the Lord your God. 27:7 Also you must 
offer fellowship offerings and eat them there, rejoicing before the Lord 
your God. 27:8 You must inscribe on the stones all the words of this 
law, making them clear."

27:9 Then Moses and the Levitical priests spoke to all Israel: "Be quiet 
and pay attention, Israel. Today you have become the people of the Lord 
your God. 27:10 You must obey him and keep his commandments and statutes 
that I am giving you today." 27:11 Moreover, Moses commanded the people 
that day: 27:12 "The following tribes must stand to bless the people on 
Mount Gerizim when you cross the Jordan: Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, 
Joseph, and Benjamin. 27:13 And these other tribes must stand for the 
curse on Mount Ebal: Reuben, Gad, Asher, Zebulun, Dan, and Naphtali.

The Covenant Curses

27:14 "The Levites will call out to every Israelite with a loud voice: 
27:15 'Cursed is the one who makes a carved or metal image -- something 
abhorrent to the Lord, the work of the craftsman -- and sets it up in a 
secret place.' Then all the people will say, 'Amen!' 27:16 'Cursed is 
the one who disrespects his father and mother.' Then all the people will 
say, 'Amen!' 27:17 'Cursed is the one who moves his neighbor's boundary 
marker.' Then all the people will say, 'Amen!' 27:18 'Cursed is the one 
who misleads a blind person on the road.' Then all the people will say, 
'Amen!' 27:19 'Cursed is the one who perverts justice for the resident 
foreigner, the orphan, and the widow.' Then all the people will say, 
'Amen!' 27:20 'Cursed is the one who has sexual relations with his 
father's former wife, for he dishonors his father.' Then all the people 
will say, 'Amen!' 27:21 'Cursed is the one who commits bestiality.' Then 
all the people will say, 'Amen!' 27:22 'Cursed is the one who has sexual 
relations with his sister, the daughter of either his father or mother.' 
Then all the people will say, 'Amen!' 27:23 'Cursed is the one who has 
sexual relations with his mother-in-law.' Then all the people will say, 
'Amen!' 27:24 'Cursed is the one who kills his neighbor in private.' 
Then all the people will say, 'Amen!' 27:25 'Cursed is the one who takes 
a bribe to kill an innocent person.' Then all the people will say, 
'Amen!' 27:26 'Cursed is the one who refuses to keep the words of this 
law.' Then all the people will say, 'Amen!'



      Prayer


Lord, You remind us of Your blessings and our responsibilities in our 
covenant relationship with You -- then in the Old Testament and now in 
the New Testament/new covenant. May I never forget what You have done 
for me and may I live more intentionally-obedient before You every day.



      Commentary


Controversies not resolved among Israelites were to be brought to a 
judge. If one was judged guilty one would lie on the floor to receive a 
flogging, but not more than 40 strikes as that would be so severe as to 
imply disrespect for a fellow Israelite as a member of God's chosen 
people, rather than a corrective punishment to encourage changed future 
behavior..

If a man died his brother was to marry his widow and their first-born 
son was to take his deceased brother-in-laws name to continue the family 
name. If he refuses then the widow was to bring him to the elders and if 
he still refused he would be socially-disrespected. [The text does not 
at this place specify any further remedy for the widow, either presuming 
that the social pressure would force compliance, or that she would 
remarry and take her inheritance out of her dead husband and 
uncooperative brother-in-law's family.]

The use of dishonest weights and measures in the marketplace to cheat 
customers was forbidden. Israelites were to deal honestly with one 
another in all things.

Once the Israelites completed their conquest of the promised land they 
were to obliterate the Amalekites who had attacked them on their travel 
from Egypt.

Moses reviewed the history of the Exodus, the importance of surrendering 
the first-fruits in recognition that everything good was a gift from 
God, and the need to be faithful to receive continued blessings.

Moses instructed the Levites to call out the covenant curses for 
disobedience and the people to echo them.



      Interaction


        Consider

The continuance of biological family lines within the tribes was unique 
to the Old Testament, it is not a New Testament/new covenant value, 
multiplication of believers without regard to family history is instead.


        Discuss

What would be the value of the Levites reciting the covenant curses and 
the people repeating them back?



        Reflect

Ethical treatment of Israelites in the legal system, marketplace, and 
relationships reflected their unique standing as the people of God.


        Share

When have you been mistreated by a fellow believer, or observed another 
being mistreated? How did that impact the well-being of the fellowship 
and/or your sense of community and social safety?


      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to remind you of blessings God has given to you.



        Action:

Today I will pause to take the time to recall the many ways that the 
Lord God has blessed me. I will share that testimony with a fellow 
believer and together we will praise the Lord.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Monday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 28



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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From pastordavid at bibleseven.com  Sun Oct 31 20:00:05 2010
From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com)
Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2010 20:00:05 -0400
Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday - Deuteronomy 28
Message-ID: <4CCE0305.9080002@bibleseven.com>


    Monday


      Deuteronomy 28


The Covenant Blessings

28:1 "If you indeed obey the Lord your God and are careful to observe 
all his commandments I am giving you today, the Lord your God will 
elevate you above all the nations of the earth. 28:2 All these blessings 
will come to you in abundance if you obey the Lord your God: 28:3 You 
will be blessed in the city and blessed in the field. 28:4 Your children 
will be blessed, as well as the produce of your soil, the offspring of 
your livestock, the calves of your herds, and the lambs of your flocks. 
28:5 Your basket and your mixing bowl will be blessed. 28:6 You will be 
blessed when you come in and blessed when you go out. 28:7 The Lord will 
cause your enemies who attack you to be struck down before you; they 
will attack you from one direction but flee from you in seven different 
directions. 28:8 The Lord will decree blessing for you with respect to 
your barns and in everything you do -- yes, he will bless you in the 
land he is giving you. 28:9 The Lord will designate you as his holy 
people just as he promised you, if you keep his commandments and obey 
him. 28:10 Then all the peoples of the earth will see that you belong to 
the Lord, and they will respect you. 28:11 The Lord will greatly 
multiply your children, the offspring of your livestock, and the produce 
of your soil in the land which he promised your ancestors he would give 
you. 28:12 The Lord will open for you his good treasure house, the 
heavens, to give you rain for the land in its season and to bless all 
you do; you will lend to many nations but you will not borrow from any. 
28:13 The Lord will make you the head and not the tail, and you will 
always end up at the top and not at the bottom, if you obey his 
commandments which I am urging you today to be careful to do. 28:14 But 
you must not turn away from all the commandments I am giving you today, 
to either the right or left, nor pursue other gods and worship them.

Curses as Reversal of Blessings

28:15 "But if you ignore the Lord your God and are not careful to keep 
all his commandments and statutes I am giving you today, then all these 
curses will come upon you in full force: 28:16 You will be cursed in the 
city and cursed in the field. 28:17 Your basket and your mixing bowl 
will be cursed. 28:18 Your children will be cursed, as well as the 
produce of your soil, the calves of your herds, and the lambs of your 
flocks. 28:19 You will be cursed when you come in and cursed when you go 
out.

Curses by Disease and Drought

28:20 "The Lord will send on you a curse, confusing you and opposing you 
in everything you undertake until you are destroyed and quickly perish 
because of the evil of your deeds, in that you have forsaken me. 28:21 
The Lord will plague you with deadly diseases until he has completely 
removed you from the land you are about to possess. 28:22 He will 
afflict you with weakness, fever, inflammation, infection, sword, 
blight, and mildew; these will attack you until you perish. 28:23 The 
sky above your heads will be bronze and the earth beneath you iron. 
28:24 The Lord will make the rain of your land powder and dust; it will 
come down on you from the sky until you are destroyed.

Curses by Defeat and Deportation

28:25 "The Lord will allow you to be struck down before your enemies; 
you will attack them from one direction but flee from them in seven 
directions and will become an object of terror to all the kingdoms of 
the earth. 28:26 Your carcasses will be food for every bird of the sky 
and wild animal of the earth, and there will be no one to chase them 
off. 28:27 The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with 
tumors, eczema, and scabies, all of which cannot be healed. 28:28 The 
Lord will also subject you to madness, blindness, and confusion of mind. 
28:29 You will feel your way along at noon like the blind person does in 
darkness and you will not succeed in anything you do; you will be 
constantly oppressed and continually robbed, with no one to save you. 
28:30 You will be engaged to a woman and another man will rape her. You 
will build a house but not live in it. You will plant a vineyard but not 
even begin to use it. 28:31 Your ox will be slaughtered before your very 
eyes but you will not eat of it. Your donkey will be stolen from you as 
you watch and will not be returned to you. Your flock of sheep will be 
given to your enemies and there will be no one to save you. 28:32 Your 
sons and daughters will be given to another people while you look on in 
vain all day, and you will be powerless to do anything about it. 28:33 
As for the produce of your land and all your labor, a people you do not 
know will consume it, and you will be nothing but oppressed and crushed 
for the rest of your lives. 28:34 You will go insane from seeing all 
this. 28:35 The Lord will afflict you in your knees and on your legs 
with painful, incurable boils -- from the soles of your feet to the top 
of your head. 28:36 The Lord will force you and your king whom you will 
appoint over you to go away to a people whom you and your ancestors have 
not known, and you will serve other gods of wood and stone there. 28:37 
You will become an occasion of horror, a proverb, and an object of 
ridicule to all the peoples to whom the Lord will drive you.

The Curse of Reversed Status

28:38 "You will take much seed to the field but gather little harvest, 
because locusts will consume it. 28:39 You will plant vineyards and 
cultivate them, but you will not drink wine or gather in grapes, because 
worms will eat them. 28:40 You will have olive trees throughout your 
territory but you will not anoint yourself with olive oil, because the 
olives will drop off the trees while still unripe. 28:41 You will bear 
sons and daughters but not keep them, because they will be taken into 
captivity. 28:42 Whirring locusts will take over every tree and all the 
produce of your soil. 28:43 The foreigners who reside among you will 
become higher and higher over you and you will become lower and lower. 
28:44 They will lend to you but you will not lend to them; they will 
become the head and you will become the tail!

28:45 All these curses will fall on you, pursuing and overtaking you 
until you are destroyed, because you would not obey the Lord your God by 
keeping his commandments and statutes that he has given you. 28:46 These 
curses will be a perpetual sign and wonder with reference to you and 
your descendants.

The Curse of Military Siege

28:47 "Because you have not served the Lord your God joyfully and 
wholeheartedly with the abundance of everything you have, 28:48 instead 
in hunger, thirst, nakedness, and poverty you will serve your enemies 
whom the Lord will send against you. They will place an iron yoke on 
your neck until they have destroyed you. 28:49 The Lord will raise up a 
distant nation against you, one from the other side of the earth as the 
eagle flies, a nation whose language you will not understand, 28:50 a 
nation of stern appearance that will have no regard for the elderly or 
pity for the young. 28:51 They will devour the offspring of your 
livestock and the produce of your soil until you are destroyed. They 
will not leave you with any grain, new wine, olive oil, calves of your 
herds, or lambs of your flocks until they have destroyed you. 28:52 They 
will besiege all of your villages until all of your high and fortified 
walls collapse -- those in which you put your confidence throughout the 
land. They will besiege all your villages throughout the land the Lord 
your God has given you. 28:53 You will then eat your own offspring, the 
flesh of the sons and daughters the Lord your God has given you, because 
of the severity of the siege by which your enemies will constrict you. 
28:54 The man among you who is by nature tender and sensitive will turn 
against his brother, his beloved wife, and his remaining children. 28:55 
He will withhold from all of them his children's flesh that he is eating 
(since there is nothing else left), because of the severity of the siege 
by which your enemy will constrict you in your villages. 28:56 Likewise, 
the most tender and delicate of your women, who would never think of 
putting even the sole of her foot on the ground because of her 
daintiness, will turn against her beloved husband, her sons and 
daughters, 28:57 and will secretly eat her afterbirth and her newborn 
children (since she has nothing else), because of the severity of the 
siege by which your enemy will constrict you in your villages.

The Curse of Covenant Termination

28:58 "If you refuse to obey all the words of this law, the things 
written in this scroll, and refuse to fear this glorious and awesome 
name, the Lord your God, 28:59 then the Lord will increase your 
punishments and those of your descendants -- great and long-lasting 
afflictions and severe, enduring illnesses. 28:60 He will infect you 
with all the diseases of Egypt that you dreaded, and they will 
persistently afflict you. 28:61 Moreover, the Lord will bring upon you 
every kind of sickness and plague not mentioned in this scroll of 
commandments, until you have perished. 28:62 There will be very few of 
you left, though at one time you were as numerous as the stars in the 
sky, because you will have disobeyed the Lord your God. 28:63 This is 
what will happen: Just as the Lord delighted to do good for you and make 
you numerous, he will take delight in destroying and decimating you. You 
will be uprooted from the land you are about to possess. 28:64 The Lord 
will scatter you among all nations, from one end of the earth to the 
other. There you will worship other gods that neither you nor your 
ancestors have known, gods of wood and stone. 28:65 Among those nations 
you will have no rest nor will there be a place of peaceful rest for the 
soles of your feet, for there the Lord will give you an anxious heart, 
failing eyesight, and a spirit of despair. 28:66 Your life will hang in 
doubt before you; you will be terrified by night and day and will have 
no certainty of surviving from one day to the next. 28:67 In the morning 
you will say, 'If only it were evening!' And in the evening you will 
say, 'I wish it were morning!' because of the things you will fear and 
the things you will see. 28:68 Then the Lord will make you return to 
Egypt by ship, over a route I said to you that you would never see 
again. There you will sell yourselves to your enemies as male and female 
slaves, but no one will buy you."



      Prayer


Lord, You never keep us in the dark about the consequences of our 
choices. May I pause and pray and reconsider, as Your Holy Spirit 
guides, before making decisions which consequences I am in any way in doubt.



      Commentary


The Lord God had Moses remind the people of all of His covenant promises 
to bless them.

He concluded the recitation of blessings with the conditional "... if 
you obey his commandments which I am urging you today to be careful to 
do. But you must not turn away from all the commandments I am giving you 
today, to either the right or left, nor pursue other gods and worship them."

He then followed the list of blessings, and the condition of obedience 
to continue to receive them, with the corollary reverse-blessing list of 
curses which would befall them should they choose to violate their 
covenant with God.



      Interaction



        Consider

The desire of God to bless His created humankind has not ceased since 
the Garden of Eden, neither has our propensity to rebel.


        Discuss

Can you think of any way the Lord God could have made the consequences 
of obedience versus disobedience more plain to the Israelites?



        Reflect

The list of curses should have frightened anyone and everyone into the 
obedience that results from enlightened self-interest if the list of 
blessings had not drawn them into grateful obedience.


        Share

When have you known that the consequences of two choices represented 
radically opposite good and bad experiences for you and you still chose 
to risk the bad?



      Faith in Action



        Prayer:

Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a specific blessing and curse 
facing you in the choices ahead.



        Action:

Today I will partner closely with the Holy Spirit to investigate 
carefully and fully the decision ahead for which the consequences are 
extreme and opposite. I will submit to His gift of wisdom, despite the 
desires of my flesh, and choose His best path for my life. I will share 
this experience with a fellow believer as an encouragement to them to do 
the same, and as a praise report of the loving-care of God in my life.


        Be Specific ______________________________________________________



    Tuesday's text will be:


      Deuteronomy 29



-- 

Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day!  Pastor David
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Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com
Bible Resources: http://bible.org
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