[Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT!

[Billy F. Staggs]

On 7/7/2010 7:00 PM, David Kuntadi wrote:
> Brothers,
> My church does not approve gay/lesbian, neither do I. But I start from
> this verse:
>
> Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
>
>    

Agreed, but let's keep that in context, which I believe is in the sense 
of 'judging' someone's motives (filling in the blanks so to speak) or 
looking upon them with a condescending heart, but never as an excuse to 
justify sin.  However in this 'everything goes' attitude of today people 
have tried to twist this out of context to justify any and all acts of 
sin.  The same Lord that said "judge not" also said:

(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but *judge righteous 
judgment*.


He also was not afraid to call (some might even say judge) sin wrong either:

(Matthew 21:12–13) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out 
all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of 
the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto 
them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but 
ye have made it a den of thieves.



Nor was John the Baptist (The Greatest Prophet born of women)


(Matthew 3:7–8) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come 
to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath 
warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits 
meet for repentance:

Nor was Paul:

(1 Corinthians 5:1–5) It is reported commonly that there is fornication 
among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the 
Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, 
and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be 
taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present 
in spirit,* have judged already*, as though I were present, concerning 
him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, 
when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord 
Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of 
the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


> In my opinion, all lust are prone to sin, including heterosexual. So,
> it does not really matter if somebody is gay/lesbian by nature. What
> important is how they conduct their lives. For us, may be we look at
> their behavior as disgusting. On the other hand, gay/lesbian see the
> heterosexual behavior as disgusting.
>
>    

Does it really matter?  David, I am having a hard time believing that a 
professing Christina would even ask such a question. Are we going to 
simply pick and choice what we like in God's Word and disregard the 
rest?  It's one thing to debate what the Word says, but it's quite 
another to disregard it because it is inconvenient or makes us unpopular 
with the World. Where does this stop? What's next child molesters, 
murderers? If that is what you are saying, then sadly we have no common 
ground between us.


> The final destination is not even to be heterosexual, but non sexual.
> So, it does not really matter whether you are heterosexual of
> homosexual as in heaven, there is no such thing as sex.
>
> By condemning certain people, we also condemn ourselves as we still
> have many other "natural" desire, that we always given up to them. May
> be we always give up to our desire to eat or to sleep, and forget the
> job God given us that we have to do for other people. Finally, are
> gay/lesbian sinful? Yes, but so do we. So, finally, please consider
> this verse:
>
>    

Since I am unable to get past Paul's warning to not be deceived and know 
that those continuing in such sin will not make it to Heaven, then 
ignoring this is not an option I would entertain.  Are you also saying 
that since it is as you say a 'natural desire' that it should be 
condoned?   The same could be claimed of basically any sin, the thief 
could claim I can't help myself, the adulterer that he was born with his 
desire, etc.  But that is not what God's Word teaches.

(Ephesians 4:25–32) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth 
with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and 
sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to 
the devil. *Let him that stole steal no more*: but rather let him 
labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have 
to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of 
your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may 
minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, 
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, 
and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from 
you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, 
forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.


> Joh 8:7  So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and
> said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a
> stone at her.
>
> DK
>    

Yes, but keep reading....

(John 8:7–11) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, 
and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast 
a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And 
they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out 
one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was 
left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted 
up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where 
are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, 
Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: *go, and sin 
no more*.


He did not (as it appears to me you are suggesting) simply forgive her 
sins and allow her to continue in them, but rather He instructed her to 
"go, and sin no more".  That my friend is something I feel is missing in 
from your view.

Jesus is willing and able to set the sinner free (I know He did me), but 
by condoning it and allowing sin to be pasted off as 'natural desire', 
we are condemning our fellow man to utter damnation.

(John 8:31–36) ^ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If 
ye continue in my word, /then/ are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall 
know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We 
be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest 
thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say 
unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the 
servant abideth not in the house for ever: /but/ the Son abideth ever. 
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.


Perhaps as followers of Christ we should worry less about who is 
offended by God's Word, stop trying to be friends with the world and 
stand on God's Word as though we actually still believed It. Then we 
might actually began to see some captives set free rather than just 
making them comfortable on their road to destruction.

(James 4:1–6) From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they 
not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and 
have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and 
war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, 
because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye 
adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the *friendship of the 
world is enmity with God*? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the 
world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, 
The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more 
grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace 
unto the humble.


(John 15:18–25 ) If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before 
it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but 
because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, 
therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, 
The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, 
they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will 
keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my 
name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come 
and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke 
for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not 
done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had 
sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But 
this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in 
their law, They hated me without a cause.


(Luke 6:26) Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so 
did their fathers to the false prophets.



--
bstaggs <><





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