[Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT!
Billy F. Staggs
bstaggs at staggs.net
Thu Jul 8 11:14:42 EDT 2010
On 7/7/2010 7:00 PM, David Kuntadi wrote:
> My church does not approve gay/lesbian, neither do I. But I start from
> this verse:
> Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Agreed, but let's keep that in context, which I believe is in the sense
of 'judging' someone's motives (filling in the blanks so to speak) or
looking upon them with a condescending heart, but never as an excuse to
justify sin. However in this 'everything goes' attitude of today people
have tried to twist this out of context to justify any and all acts of
sin. The same Lord that said "judge not" also said:
(John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but *judge righteous
He also was not afraid to call (some might even say judge) sin wrong either:
(Matthew 21:12–13) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out
all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of
the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto
them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but
ye have made it a den of thieves.
Nor was John the Baptist (The Greatest Prophet born of women)
(Matthew 3:7–8) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come
to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath
warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits
meet for repentance:
Nor was Paul:
(1 Corinthians 5:1–5) It is reported commonly that there is fornication
among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the
Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up,
and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be
taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present
in spirit,* have judged already*, as though I were present, concerning
him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord
Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of
the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
> In my opinion, all lust are prone to sin, including heterosexual. So,
> it does not really matter if somebody is gay/lesbian by nature. What
> important is how they conduct their lives. For us, may be we look at
> their behavior as disgusting. On the other hand, gay/lesbian see the
> heterosexual behavior as disgusting.
Does it really matter? David, I am having a hard time believing that a
professing Christina would even ask such a question. Are we going to
simply pick and choice what we like in God's Word and disregard the
rest? It's one thing to debate what the Word says, but it's quite
another to disregard it because it is inconvenient or makes us unpopular
with the World. Where does this stop? What's next child molesters,
murderers? If that is what you are saying, then sadly we have no common
ground between us.
> The final destination is not even to be heterosexual, but non sexual.
> So, it does not really matter whether you are heterosexual of
> homosexual as in heaven, there is no such thing as sex.
> By condemning certain people, we also condemn ourselves as we still
> have many other "natural" desire, that we always given up to them. May
> be we always give up to our desire to eat or to sleep, and forget the
> job God given us that we have to do for other people. Finally, are
> gay/lesbian sinful? Yes, but so do we. So, finally, please consider
> this verse:
Since I am unable to get past Paul's warning to not be deceived and know
that those continuing in such sin will not make it to Heaven, then
ignoring this is not an option I would entertain. Are you also saying
that since it is as you say a 'natural desire' that it should be
condoned? The same could be claimed of basically any sin, the thief
could claim I can't help myself, the adulterer that he was born with his
desire, etc. But that is not what God's Word teaches.
(Ephesians 4:25–32) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth
with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and
sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to
the devil. *Let him that stole steal no more*: but rather let him
labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have
to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of
your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may
minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness,
and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from
you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted,
forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.
> Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and
> said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a
> stone at her.
Yes, but keep reading....
(John 8:7–11) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself,
and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast
a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And
they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out
one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was
left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted
up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where
are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man,
Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: *go, and sin
He did not (as it appears to me you are suggesting) simply forgive her
sins and allow her to continue in them, but rather He instructed her to
"go, and sin no more". That my friend is something I feel is missing in
from your view.
Jesus is willing and able to set the sinner free (I know He did me), but
by condoning it and allowing sin to be pasted off as 'natural desire',
we are condemning our fellow man to utter damnation.
(John 8:31–36) ^ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If
ye continue in my word, /then/ are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall
know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We
be Abraham’s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest
thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say
unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the
servant abideth not in the house for ever: /but/ the Son abideth ever.
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Perhaps as followers of Christ we should worry less about who is
offended by God's Word, stop trying to be friends with the world and
stand on God's Word as though we actually still believed It. Then we
might actually began to see some captives set free rather than just
making them comfortable on their road to destruction.
(James 4:1–6) From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they
not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and
have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and
war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not,
because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye
adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the *friendship of the
world is enmity with God*? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the
world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain,
The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more
grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace
unto the humble.
(John 15:18–25 ) If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before
it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but
because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world,
therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you,
The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me,
they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will
keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my
name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come
and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke
for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not
done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had
sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But
this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in
their law, They hated me without a cause.
(Luke 6:26) Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so
did their fathers to the false prophets.
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