From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 1 15:54:38 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2010 15:54:38 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 31:19-35 (Friday) Message-ID: <4C2CF27E.1020308@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 31:19-35 (Friday)* 31:19 While Laban had gone to shear his sheep, Rachel stole the household idols that belonged to her father. 31:20 Jacob also deceived Laban the Aramean by not telling him that he was leaving. 31:21 He left with all he owned. He quickly crossed the Euphrates River and headed for the hill country of Gilead. 31:22 Three days later Laban discovered Jacob had left. 31:23 So he took his relatives with him and pursued Jacob for seven days. He caught up with him in the hill country of Gilead. 31:24 But God came to Laban the Aramean in a dream at night and warned him, "Be careful that you neither bless nor curse Jacob." 31:25 Laban overtook Jacob, and when Jacob pitched his tent in the hill country of Gilead, Laban and his relatives set up camp there too. 31:26 "What have you done?" Laban demanded of Jacob. "You've deceived me and carried away my daughters as if they were captives of war! 31:27 Why did you run away secretly and deceive me? Why didn't you tell me so I could send you off with a celebration complete with singing, tambourines, and harps? 31:28 You didn't even allow me to kiss my daughters and my grandchildren good-bye. You have acted foolishly! 31:29 I have the power to do you harm, but the God of your father told me last night, 'Be careful that you neither bless nor curse Jacob.' 31:30 Now I understand that you have gone away because you longed desperately for your father's house. Yet why did you steal my gods?" 31:31 "I left secretly because I was afraid!" Jacob replied to Laban. "I thought you might take your daughters away from me by force. 31:32 Whoever has taken your gods will be put to death! In the presence of our relatives identify whatever is yours and take it." (Now Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen them.) 31:33 So Laban entered Jacob's tent, and Leah's tent, and the tent of the two female servants, but he did not find the idols. Then he left Leah's tent and entered Rachel's. 31:34 (Now Rachel had taken the idols and put them inside her camel's saddle and sat on them.) Laban searched the whole tent, but did not find them. 31:35 Rachel said to her father, "Don't be angry, my lord. I cannot stand up in your presence because I am having my period." So he searched thoroughly, but did not find the idols. *Prayer:* Lord, may I be careful not to sin as I separate myself from prior commitments and relationships which impede moving on to where and how You would use me in your service. *Commentary* Jacob fled to Laban from Esau and now he is fleeing from Laban. Rachel sinned in stealing from her father and Jacob was disrespectful, inconsiderate, and lacking in trust in God for rushing away without communicating with Laban. Rachel's theft of the idols testified to her lack of faith in the Lord God, then she lied to her father and husband (the latter is implied) in order to hide her crime, compounding her sin. Laban declared that he had the capacity to do harm to Jacob but that "the God of your father" warned him to not even attempt to "... bless nor curse" Jacob. let alone physically harm him. Jacob was rightfully fearful in his flesh, knowing that Laban had turned against him, and that Laban and his sons were very selfish. *Interaction* *Consider this:* Jacob has clearly not been the spiritual leader of his household. Not only does his wife steal idols from her father, then lie about it, but the Lord God is known as that of Jacob's father rather than the Lord God of Jacob. *Discuss this:* Would Rachel have stolen her father's idols out of spite, because they were made of something valuable, or because she still believed in them as a pagan? *Reflect on this:* Despite his own selfishness toward Jacob and even his daughters Laban was righteously indignant at the way that Jacob departed, in addition to the theft of his idols. *Share this:* When have you, or someone else, separated from a community, a place of employment, or some other situation and neglected to participate in the process of separation? [Note: There are some situations where is quick and clean break is indicated and others where some degree of process is "safe" and therefore appropriate. This is not to suggest that one lingers -- God clearly instructed Jacob to leave promptly -- but does suggest that we consider the best way to part even if it is a very brief and simple process.] *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you what you need to know about recent or soon-to-happen changes in your life. *Action:* I will prayerfully discern where I am carrying some doctrinal and/or spiritual debris from an unhealthy past association, where I may have unnecessarily caused some emotional harm due to a rush to move-on, and/or where I need to take action to move-on instead of remaining stuck where He does not want me -- and I will act appropriately. *Be Specific* _______________________________________________________________________ /*Saturday's text will be: Genesis 31:36-55 [32:1]*/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Jul 4 10:05:52 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 10:05:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 32:1-32 (Sunday) Message-ID: <4C309540.9030204@bibleseven.com> *BibleSeven Bible Study and Devotion* *Genesis Thirty-Two - Thirty-Six* *Commentary -- Interaction -- Faith in Action* /Chapters One and Two presented the Creation narrative with different emphasis./ /Chapter Three described Adam and Eve's horribly wrong choice and the devastating consequences./ /Chapter Four described early life after Eden./ /Chapters Five and Six describes the terrible failure of humankind to seek after God and His decision to destroy life on the earth and restart with a Noadic remnant./ /Chapters Seven and Eight conclude the Ark story./ /Chapters Nine and Ten contain God's early instructions to the survivors of the Flood, the sin of Ham, and the future genealogies of the descendants of Noah's sons./ /Chapters Eleven, Twelve, and Thirteen describe the dispersal of the nations, Abram's travels, the kidnapping of Sarai, and the parting of Abram and Lot./ /Chapters Fourteen and Fifteen; Abram given victory in battle rescuing Lot, and the covenant is presented by God./ /Chapters Sixteen and Seventeen; Ishmael is born, covenant with Abraham further clarified, male circumcision required./ /Chapters Eighteen and Nineteen; the promise of a son for Abraham and Sarah renewed, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Lot's escape./ /Chapters Twenty to Twenty-Three; Abraham and Abimelech , The Birth of Isaac , The Sacrifice of Isaac , The Death of Sarah / /Chapters Twenty-Four to Twenty-Five; The Wife for Isaac, The Death of Abraham, The Sons of Ishmael, Jacob and Esau/ /Chapters Twenty-Six to Twenty-Eight; Isaac and Abimelech, Jacob Cheats Esau out of the Blessing, / /Jacob's Dream at Bethel/ /Chapters Twenty-Nine to Thirty-One; The Marriages of Jacob , The Family of Jacob , The Flocks of Jacob , Jacob's Flight from Laban/ Genesis 32:1-32 (Sunday) Jacob Wrestles at Peniel 32:1 So Jacob went on his way and the angels of God met him. 32:2 When Jacob saw them, he exclaimed, "This is the camp of God!" So he named that place Mahanaim. 32:3 Jacob sent messengers on ahead to his brother Esau in the land of Seir, the region of Edom. 32:4 He commanded them, "This is what you must say to my lord Esau: 'This is what your servant Jacob says: I have been staying with Laban until now. 32:5 I have oxen, donkeys, sheep, and male and female servants. I have sent this message to inform my lord, so that I may find favor in your sight.'" 32:6 The messengers returned to Jacob and said, "We went to your brother Esau. He is coming to meet you and has four hundred men with him." 32:7 Jacob was very afraid and upset. So he divided the people who were with him into two camps, as well as the flocks, herds, and camels. 32:8 "If Esau attacks one camp," he thought, "then the other camp will be able to escape." 32:9 Then Jacob prayed, "O God of my father Abraham, God of my father Isaac, O Lord, you said to me, 'Return to your land and to your relatives and I will make you prosper.' 32:10 I am not worthy of all the faithful love you have shown your servant. With only my walking stick I crossed the Jordan, but now I have become two camps. 32:11 Rescue me, I pray, from the hand of my brother Esau, for I am afraid he will come and attack me, as well as the mothers with their children. 32:12 But you said, 'I will certainly make you prosper and will make your descendants like the sand on the seashore, too numerous to count.'" 32:13 Jacob stayed there that night. Then he sent as a gift to his brother Esau 32:14 two hundred female goats and twenty male goats, two hundred ewes and twenty rams, 32:15 thirty female camels with their young, forty cows and ten bulls, and twenty female donkeys and ten male donkeys. 32:16 He entrusted them to his servants, who divided them into herds. He told his servants, "Pass over before me, and keep some distance between one herd and the next." 32:17 He instructed the servant leading the first herd, "When my brother Esau meets you and asks, 'To whom do you belong? Where are you going? Whose herds are you driving?' 32:18 then you must say, 'They belong to your servant Jacob. They have been sent as a gift to my lord Esau. In fact Jacob himself is behind us.'" 32:19 He also gave these instructions to the second and third servants, as well as all those who were following the herds, saying, "You must say the same thing to Esau when you meet him. 32:20 You must also say, 'In fact your servant Jacob is behind us.'" Jacob thought, "I will first appease him by sending a gift ahead of me. After that I will meet him. Perhaps he will accept me." 32:21 So the gifts were sent on ahead of him while he spent that night in the camp. 32:22 During the night Jacob quickly took his two wives, his two female servants, and his eleven sons and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 32:23 He took them and sent them across the stream along with all his possessions. 32:24 So Jacob was left alone. Then a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 32:25 When the man saw that he could not defeat Jacob, he struck the socket of his hip so the socket of Jacob's hip was dislocated while he wrestled with him. 32:26 Then the man said, "Let me go, for the dawn is breaking." "I will not let you go," Jacob replied, "unless you bless me." 32:27 The man asked him, "What is your name?" He answered, "Jacob." 32:28 "No longer will your name be Jacob," the man told him, "but Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have prevailed." 32:29 Then Jacob asked, "Please tell me your name." "Why do you ask my name?" the man replied. Then he blessed Jacob there. 32:30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, explaining, "Certainly I have seen God face to face and have survived." 32:31 The sun rose over him as he crossed over Penuel, but he was limping because of his hip. 32:32 That is why to this day the Israelites do not eat the sinew which is attached to the socket of the hip, because he struck the socket of Jacob's hip near the attached sinew. *Prayer:* Lord, like Jacob I am often prone to live from the flesh rather than through You, may I learn to become more reliant upon You. Commentary Jacob, traveling home, is greeted by angels sent by God. He names that place "Mahanaim" as he thinks that they live there. Jacob's servants, send to greet Esau and to communicate Jacob's intention to bring peace offerings, report that Esau is traveling with 400 men. Jacob pleads with God to protect him, reciting the promises to Issac, and humbling himself as unworthy. Jacob sends ahead the offerings and hides his two wives, their female servants, and his eleven sons. His daughter, Dinah, is not mentioned. While Jacob rests he has a confrontation with what he believes to be a man, they wrestle and as peers Jacob prevails, but the angel "touches" Jacob's him -- partially crippling him -- making him aware of the weakness of his flesh in spiritual matters. Jacob still clings to the "man", refusing to let go. The angel-man asks Jacob his name and then changes his name to Israel, meaning that now that he finally understands that his flesh alone is insufficient he will be successful because of God's provision and protection. Jacob, still of the magical-thinking mindset, wants to know the same of the spiritual being because ancient pagan tradition taught that knowing the name of a spiritual being empowered one to use that name as a weapon. Jacob, thinking the "man" was like his father, also demands a blessing. The angel, on God's behalf, recites the prior promise and prophesy of God that Israel would prosper because of faithfulness and God's blessing. Interaction *Consider this:* Jacob anticipates a battle with Esau and is hopeful that a large offering will temper Esau's rage. He is very aware that in his flesh he, and his people, are no match for Esau. While Jacob could be strong, for example when wrestling with the angel-man, there would always be others like Esau who were stronger in a mere flesh-to-flesh contest. *Discuss this:* As Jacob wrestled with the angel-man his flesh is strong but he has no spiritual power and thus the angel was able to easily overcome his flesh. Jacob's flesh had often led him into trouble, if he was to be God's leader he would need to surrender, and the angel was sent to confront him with that truth. Isn't the declaration of Jacob that he had "prevailed" in the flesh but needed God to succeed in the "big picture" a foreshadowing of the New Testament teaching of our surrender of everything in this world to Christ for our salvation? *Reflect on this:* Jacob's new name, Israel, tells everyone that he is now God's man and no longer his own. *Share this:* What was the moment, or what have been the moments, where you recognized that while in the world your flesh was strong -- you needed God for anything to have real purpose and meaning and not mere striving with man? Faith in Action *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you still strive with man for meaning and purpose and power instead of walking with God. *Action:* I will prayerfully consider where in my life I am "wrestling in the flesh" with God, trying to be strong in the flesh, rather than acknowledging my need for Him. I will surrender to Him and through my faithfulness to Him be made truly strong in His power. *Be Specific* __________________________________________________________ /Genesis 33:1-20 (Monday)/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Jul 4 10:23:19 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 10:23:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 31:36-55 [32:1] (Saturday) Message-ID: <4C309957.7020501@bibleseven.com> /It appears that the Saturday study did not make it to you all, I apologize. I guess everyone must be having a busy July 4th weekend and no one noticed the missing daily study in their Inbox! Please E-mail me when you do not receive the study so that I am aware of such a failure. Praying in-agreement for our leaders to turn towards God./ ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Genesis 31:36-55 [32:1] (Saturday) 31:36 Jacob became angry and argued with Laban. "What did I do wrong?" he demanded of Laban. "What sin of mine prompted you to chase after me in hot pursuit? 31:37 When you searched through all my goods, did you find anything that belonged to you? Set it here before my relatives and yours, and let them settle the dispute between the two of us! 31:38 "I have been with you for the past twenty years. Your ewes and female goats have not miscarried, nor have I eaten rams from your flocks. 31:39 Animals torn by wild beasts I never brought to you; I always absorbed the loss myself. You always made me pay for every missing animal, whether it was taken by day or at night. 31:40 I was consumed by scorching heat during the day and by piercing cold at night, and I went without sleep. 31:41 This was my lot for twenty years in your house: I worked like a slave for you -- fourteen years for your two daughters and six years for your flocks, but you changed my wages ten times! 31:42 If the God of my father -- the God of Abraham, the one whom Isaac fears -- had not been with me, you would certainly have sent me away empty-handed! But God saw how I was oppressed and how hard I worked, and he rebuked you last night." 31:43 Laban replied to Jacob, "These women are my daughters, these children are my grandchildren, and these flocks are my flocks. All that you see belongs to me. But how can I harm these daughters of mine today or the children to whom they have given birth? 31:44 So now, come, let's make a formal agreement, you and I, and it will be proof that we have made peace." 31:45 So Jacob took a stone and set it up as a memorial pillar. 31:46 Then he said to his relatives, "Gather stones." So they brought stones and put them in a pile. They ate there by the pile of stones. 31:47 Laban called it Jegar Sahadutha, but Jacob called it Galeed. 31:48 Laban said, "This pile of stones is a witness of our agreement today." That is why it was called Galeed. 31:49 It was also called Mizpah because he said, "May the Lord watch between us when we are out of sight of one another. 31:50 If you mistreat my daughters or if you take wives besides my daughters, although no one else is with us, realize that God is witness to your actions." 31:51 "Here is this pile of stones and this pillar I have set up between me and you," Laban said to Jacob. 31:52 "This pile of stones and the pillar are reminders that I will not pass beyond this pile to come to harm you and that you will not pass beyond this pile and this pillar to come to harm me. 31:53 May the God of Abraham and the god of Nahor, the gods of their father, judge between us." Jacob took an oath by the God whom his father Isaac feared. 31:54 Then Jacob offered a sacrifice on the mountain and invited his relatives to eat the meal. They ate the meal and spent the night on the mountain. 31:55 (32:1) Early in the morning Laban kissed his grandchildren and his daughters goodbye and blessed them. Then Laban left and returned home. Prayer: Lord, the world sees through blindly-selfish eyes, may I be faithful in seeing things through Your eyes of truth. Commentary Jacob declares his innocence (not knowing of the stolen idols) and his right to claim his family and property after 20 years of sacrificial service to Laban. Laban falsely declares ownership of Jacob's daughters (he gave/sold them to Jacob) and of all of Jacob's property (earned by Jacob under an agreement with Laban). They make peace as neither desires a conflict and Laban remains fearful due to the vision from God. The differences are illustrated in their names for the place of the "memorial pillar", the God/gods to whom they "swear", and their perspective of their own righteousness. *Interaction* *Consider this:* Jacob was clearly righteous in his claim to his wives and property, Laban was not. *Discuss this:* If not for the intervention of God -- placing fear in the heart of Laban -- what might have happened between Laban and Jacob? *Reflect on this:* Does the fear of God cause us to be peacemakers, despite differences, or do we sometimes rush to demand what is "ours" without regard to God? *Share this:* When have you experienced or observed a situation where God, though His Holy Spirit, has caused a peaceful resolution to what would otherwise have been an unnecessary conflict? *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to protect you from those whose selfishness might cause them to harm you, and from your own rush-to-action where you might unnecessarily create conflict with others. *Action:* I will prayerfully partner with the Holy Spirit to seek a peaceful settlement where there is conflict. I will not sell-out truth or be abused I any way but I will not make unreasonable demands nor will I insist that the other agree with me where it is clear that they cannot [for doctrinal or maturity or spiritual or other reasons]. I will find a middle ground where a parting and/or a resolution is possible with minimal conflict and/or harm. Be Specific ______________________________________________________________________ /*Sunday's text will be: Genesis 32*/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Jul 4 13:46:29 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 13:46:29 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 33:1-20 (Monday) Message-ID: <4C30C8F5.8060809@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 33:1-20 (Monday)* Jacob Meets Esau 33:1 Jacob looked up and saw that Esau was coming along with four hundred men. So he divided the children among Leah, Rachel, and the two female servants. 33:2 He put the servants and their children in front, with Leah and her children behind them, and Rachel and Joseph behind them. 33:3 But Jacob himself went on ahead of them, and he bowed toward the ground seven times as he approached his brother. 33:4 But Esau ran to meet him, embraced him, hugged his neck, and kissed him. Then they both wept. 33:5 When Esau looked up and saw the women and the children, he asked, "Who are these people with you?" Jacob replied, "The children whom God has graciously given your servant." 33:6 The female servants came forward with their children and bowed down. 33:7 Then Leah came forward with her children and they bowed down. Finally Joseph and Rachel came forward and bowed down. 33:8 Esau then asked, "What did you intend by sending all these herds to meet me?" Jacob replied, "To find favor in your sight, my lord." 33:9 But Esau said, "I have plenty, my brother. Keep what belongs to you." 33:10 "No, please take them," Jacob said. "If I have found favor in your sight, accept my gift from my hand. Now that I have seen your face and you have accepted me, it is as if I have seen the face of God. 33:11 Please take my present that was brought to you, for God has been generous to me and I have all I need." When Jacob urged him, he took it. 33:12 Then Esau said, "Let's be on our way! I will go in front of you." 33:13 But Jacob said to him, "My lord knows that the children are young, and that I have to look after the sheep and cattle that are nursing their young. If they are driven too hard for even a single day, all the animals will die. 33:14 Let my lord go on ahead of his servant. I will travel more slowly, at the pace of the herds and the children, until I come to my lord at Seir." 33:15 So Esau said, "Let me leave some of my men with you." "Why do that?" Jacob replied. "My lord has already been kind enough to me." 33:16 So that same day Esau made his way back to Seir. 33:17 But Jacob traveled to Succoth where he built himself a house and made shelters for his livestock. That is why the place was called Succoth. 33:18 After he left Paddan Aram, Jacob came safely to the city of Shechem in the land of Canaan, and he camped near the city. 33:19 Then he purchased the portion of the field where he had pitched his tent; he bought it from the sons of Hamor, Shechem's father, for a hundred pieces of money. 33:20 There he set up an altar and called it "The God of Israel is God." *Prayer:* Lord, may I be as humble toward You as was Jacob toward Esau. *Commentary* Jacob, still fearful of the rage of Esau, greets him like a defenseless nation before an invading army. Esau, apparently long-over his childhood losses, greets Jacob joyfully and reluctantly accepts his gifts. Esau wants them to rush home but Jacob is mindful of tired and vulnerable livestock and children and chooses to move at a safer pace. Jacob finds good places for the livestock and for his family along the ways and begins to settle-in. *Interaction* *Consider this:* Jacob's fear of Esau proved to be misplaced, as many of our fears often are. *Discuss this:* Esau had not only grown-beyond his childhood resentments he provided a partial model for the father's response in the Parable of the Prodigal Son as he ran to greet his brother Jacob. *Reflect on this:* How different might this story had gone has Esau been dwelling in his rage for the entire time Jacob was gone? What might that have meant for the life of Esau for 20 years as well as for Jacob as he tried to return home? *Share this:* When have you needed to deal with the anger of another, or your own, for something from the past? How did it impact each of you in your own life and in your reaction to the other? Had either of you resolved your anger without the other knowing? *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where conflict in the past has distorted your relationship(s) and perhaps your sense of freedom or safety or value in the present. *Action:* I agree to allow the Holy Spirit to take me to a difficult place in my past so that He may set me free. I will be wise in my practical choices while I trust Him to lead me to reconciliation. I will pray for the other or others that they two may seek His healing. *Be Specific* _______________________________________________________________________ */Tuesday's text will be: Genesis 34:1-12/ * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Jul 5 15:43:43 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 15:43:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 34:1-12 (Tuesday) Message-ID: <4C3235EF.8050704@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 34:1-12 (Tuesday) * Dinah and the Shechemites 34:1 Now Dinah, Leah's daughter whom she bore to Jacob, went to meet the young women of the land. 34:2 When Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, who ruled that area, saw her, he grabbed her, forced himself on her, and sexually assaulted her. 34:3 Then he became very attached to Dinah, Jacob's daughter. He fell in love with the young woman and spoke romantically to her. 34:4 Shechem said to his father Hamor, "Acquire this young girl as my wife." 34:5 When Jacob heard that Shechem had violated his daughter Dinah, his sons were with the livestock in the field. So Jacob remained silent until they came in. 34:6 Then Shechem's father Hamor went to speak with Jacob about Dinah. 34:7 Now Jacob's sons had come in from the field when they heard the news. They were offended and very angry because Shechem had disgraced Israel by sexually assaulting Jacob's daughter, a crime that should not be committed. 34:8 But Hamor made this appeal to them: "My son Shechem is in love with your daughter. Please give her to him as his wife. 34:9 Intermarry with us. Let us marry your daughters, and take our daughters as wives for yourselves. 34:10 You may live among us, and the land will be open to you. Live in it, travel freely in it, and acquire property in it." 34:11 Then Shechem said to Dinah's father and brothers, "Let me find favor in your sight, and whatever you require of me I'll give. 34:12 You can make the bride price and the gift I must bring very expensive, and I'll give whatever you ask of me. Just give me the young woman as my wife!" *Prayer:* Lord, may I understand that there are some things "... that should not be committed" and which have consequences that may include even greater conflict with You and fellow humankind. *Commentary* Once again the lust of the eyes has led a man to act unwisely toward a woman. "Shechem son of Hamor the Hivite, who ruled that area ..." raped Israel's daughter Dinah. After his crime Shechem became emotionally attached to Dinah, perhaps parallel with the fear of consequences for his crime, and petitions Israel to allow him to marry her -- for which he would pay a large dowry and welcome her people into the land. The text does not report Israel's reply to the offer to and marry among the family of the rapist and those who occupied the land already promised to Israel. *Interaction* *Consider this:* Shechem and Hamor were unaware that God had already promised all of the land to Abraham, then Issac, and then Jacob -- they were unaware that their penitence for the sin of Shechem was a peaceful way for Israel to begin occupying the promised land. *Discuss this:* What sense of entitlement, lack of respect for women, and of local power must Hamor and Shechem had to approach Israel in this way? *Reflect on this:* The invitation to live and marry among the family of the rapist and those who occupied the land already promised to Israel must have sounded odd to Dinah's relatives. *Share this:* When have you, or someone with whom you have interacted, tried to "make things right" after an offense in a way that upon reflection seems inappropriate? *Faith in Action* *Prayer: * Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where and how the lust of your flesh may be leading you in a direction that may result in harm to others and to you. *Action:* I agree to partner with the Holy Spirit to identify places in my life where an impetuous reaction to the desires of my flesh are leading me to make poor choices. I agree to surrender those places to the Lordship of Christ through the Holy Spirit. *Be Specific* _______________________________________________________________________ */Wednesday's text will be: Genesis 34:13-31/ * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Jul 5 16:25:47 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2010 16:25:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Linux Penguins do Kirk Franklin's Stomp? Message-ID: <4C323FCB.3010809@bibleseven.com> Linux Penguins do Kirk Franklin's Stomp? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB9e7qCzMY0&feature=related -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 13:43:49 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:43:49 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! Message-ID: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> http://americanvision.org/3112/shellfish-logic-and-the-defense-of-homosexual-marriage/?utm_source=Specials&utm_campaign=5ebfbf73eb-American_Vision_Store_Special_7_6_2010&utm_medium=email -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 13:50:35 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 13:50:35 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: SEVERE sickness in the Presbytery!! Message-ID: <4C336CEB.6050307@lightlink.com> Presbyterians to consider redefining marriage This week's General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) will consider redefining marriage to include same-sex couples and allowing ministers to perform same-sex weddings. -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 6 16:26:20 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:26:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: SEVERE sickness in the Presbytery!! In-Reply-To: <4C336CEB.6050307@lightlink.com> References: <4C336CEB.6050307@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C33916C.2020503@bibleseven.com> No surprise there. I could never be part of any of that because it would be malpractice. I don't understand the homosexual lifestyle and therefore cannot assist them in the continuity of their lifestyle. It would be the same as asking me to help a Muslim to be a better Muslim or a Buddhist to be a better Buddhist. Why don't those who insist upon a lifestyle that is clearly non-Biblical just create their own religion? It would be more honest. > Fred A. Miller wrote: > Presbyterians to consider redefining marriage > This > week's General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) will > consider redefining marriage to include same-sex couples and allowing > ministers to perform same-sex weddings. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 16:37:39 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 16:37:39 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: SEVERE sickness in the Presbytery!! In-Reply-To: <4C33916C.2020503@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336CEB.6050307@lightlink.com> <4C33916C.2020503@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C339413.7090703@lightlink.com> On 07/06/2010 04:26 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > No surprise there. > > I could never be part of any of that because it would be malpractice. Sure would! > > I don't understand the homosexual lifestyle and therefore cannot > assist them in the continuity of their lifestyle. How can any normal person, in particular a REAL Christian understand it? Certainly NOT endorse it!! > > It would be the same as asking me to help a Muslim to be a better > Muslim or a Buddhist to be a better Buddhist. Or any other pagan to be a better pagan. > > Why don't those who insist upon a lifestyle that is clearly non-Biblical > just create their own religion? They'd rather try to pervert that which is Godly and pure, just like they have perverted their own bodies. > > It would be more honest. True. Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 6 17:34:33 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:34:33 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 34:13-31 (Wednesday) Message-ID: <4C33A169.9000105@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 34:13-31 (Wednesday)* 34:13 Jacob's sons answered Shechem and his father Hamor deceitfully when they spoke because Shechem had violated their sister Dinah. 34:14 They said to them, "We cannot give our sister to a man who is not circumcised, for it would be a disgrace to us. 34:15 We will give you our consent on this one condition: You must become like us by circumcising all your males. 34:16 Then we will give you our daughters to marry, and we will take your daughters as wives for ourselves, and we will live among you and become one people. 34:17 But if you do not agree to our terms by being circumcised, then we will take our sister and depart." 34:18 Their offer pleased Hamor and his son Shechem. 34:19 The young man did not delay in doing what they asked because he wanted Jacob's daughter Dinah badly. (Now he was more important than anyone in his father's household.) 34:20 So Hamor and his son Shechem went to the gate of their city and spoke to the men of their city, 34:21 "These men are at peace with us. So let them live in the land and travel freely in it, for the land is wide enough for them. We will take their daughters for wives, and we will give them our daughters to marry. 34:22 Only on this one condition will these men consent to live with us and become one people: They demand that every male among us be circumcised just as they are circumcised. 34:23 If we do so, won't their livestock, their property, and all their animals become ours? So let's consent to their demand, so they will live among us." 34:24 All the men who assembled at the city gate agreed with Hamor and his son Shechem. Every male who assembled at the city gate was circumcised. 34:25 In three days, when they were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, each took his sword and went to the unsuspecting city and slaughtered every male. 34:26 They killed Hamor and his son Shechem with the sword, took Dinah from Shechem's house, and left. 34:27 Jacob's sons killed them and looted the city because their sister had been violated. 34:28 They took their flocks, herds, and donkeys, as well as everything in the city and in the surrounding fields. 34:29 They captured as plunder all their wealth, all their little ones, and their wives, including everything in the houses. 34:30 Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, "You have brought ruin on me by making me a foul odor among the inhabitants of the land -- among the Canaanites and the Perizzites. I am few in number; they will join forces against me and attack me, and both I and my family will be destroyed!" 34:31 But Simeon and Levi replied, "Should he treat our sister like a common prostitute?" *Prayer:* Lord, may the blindness of greed and lust be swept away from my life so that my eyes are always upon You alone. *Commentary* Simeon and Levi, apparently the leaders of their brothers, challenge Shechem and Hamor to have all of their men circumcised to make it acceptable to live together with them. The greed and lust of Shechem and Hamor were not isolated to Dinah. Just as they tried to lure Israel into an alliance to cover-over the terrible crime against Dinah, they promote this to their people in order to persuade them to be circumcised. Note the text of 34:23 "If we do so, won't their livestock, their property, and all their animals become ours?" They were not satisfied with Dinah, they were willing to intermarry with a foreign people of an unfamiliar God and traditions in order to gain access to their resources. Simeon and Levi, as clever as Jacob and Laban before them, used the worldly vulnerability of Shechem and Hamor against them -- setting them up for slaughter and the loss of everything. Israel is upset, fearing retribution from the other people in the land, Simeon and Levi declare that the crime against their sister Dinah was a crime against Israel which had to be avenged. *Interaction* *Consider this:* The greed and lust of Shechem and Hamor make them very vulnerable. *Discuss this:* What statement about their character would Israel, as leader of his people, have made were they to have agreed to the marriage of Shechem to Dinah, the intermarriage with the local people, and to the merging of the resources that God had given them? *Reflect on this:* Israel continues his pattern of fear-driven weakness whereas his sons acted aggressively and cleverly to enforce high standards of integrity despite the risk. How might you have chosen between the alternatives facing the people of Israel? *Share this:* When have you been faced with a decision which presented what appeared to be two competing bad ethical options? Was the deception and destruction by Simeon and Levi justified? *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to give you wisdom when confronted by ethical challenges. *Action:* I will prayerfully review my life for any place where fear may be causing me to consider compromise with those who are not followers of Christ for the sake of a temporary peace. I will act boldly to stand for honor and trust God to be my strength and my protector. *Be Specific* _______________________________________________________________________ */Thursday's text will be: Genesis 35:1-5/ * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 19:18:54 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 06:18:54 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> Message-ID: Just a point to consider: When God created Adam, it is supposed to be hermaphrodite. But after that, God separated the female part from Adam and Adam became male only. The female part is Eve. This is my interpretation (speculation) as it is written that Eve was not created from dust, but taken from Adam. If that speculation is correct, gay/lesbian is similar to Adam?s condition before Eve was taken out from him, am I right? On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > http://americanvision.org/3112/shellfish-logic-and-the-defense-of-homosexual-marriage/?utm_source=Specials&utm_campaign=5ebfbf73eb-American_Vision_Store_Special_7_6_2010&utm_medium=email From hpp3 at lavabit.com Tue Jul 6 20:13:46 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 17:13:46 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C33C6BA.8010501@lavabit.com> On 07/06/2010 04:18 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Just a point to consider: > > When God created Adam, it is supposed to be hermaphrodite. But after > that, God separated the female part from Adam and Adam became male > only. The female part is Eve. This is my interpretation (speculation) > as it is written that Eve was not created from dust, but taken from > Adam. > > If that speculation is correct, gay/lesbian is similar to Adam?s > condition before Eve was taken out from him, am I right? > > No. Apologies for my brevity, but I was about to engage in a much longer debate on this issue and it struck me as absurd to argue a point that has absolutely no basis in scripture. Read Genesis 1 and 2 over again and I'm sure you'll concur with my answer. -Eddy From bstaggs at staggs.net Tue Jul 6 20:57:37 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 19:57:37 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> I would have a hard time trying to reconciling this theory with the following verses: (Leviticus 18:22) Thou *shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind*: it is *abomination*. (Leviticus 20:13) If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have *committed an abomination*: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. (Romans 1:26?27) For this cause God gave them up unto *vile affections*: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men *working that which is unseemly*, and *receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet*. 1 Corinthians 6:9?11 (KJV) Know ye not that the *unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God*? *Be not deceived*: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor *effeminate*, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such *were *some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. / (NKJV, NASB, ESV, & NET use 'homosexual' the above.) / (Revelation 21:6?8) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and *whoremongers*, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. /(NKJV, ESV, & NET use 'sexually immoral' in place of 'whoremongers')/ (Jude 1:7) Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner giving themselves over to *fornication*, and going after *strange flesh*, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. The Good news is that you can *have been *and be saved from such, but to continue in sin and deny that it is sin.... how can someone have forgiveness without repentance? To my way of thinking, the Church should be standing on the fact that God can deliver you from sin, rather than condoning it. Seems very cold hearted to condone or even encourage something that will ultimately lead to someone's eternal demise. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/6/2010 6:18 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Just a point to consider: > > When God created Adam, it is supposed to be hermaphrodite. But after > that, God separated the female part from Adam and Adam became male > only. The female part is Eve. This is my interpretation (speculation) > as it is written that Eve was not created from dust, but taken from > Adam. > > If that speculation is correct, gay/lesbian is similar to Adam?s > condition before Eve was taken out from him, am I right? > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > >> http://americanvision.org/3112/shellfish-logic-and-the-defense-of-homosexual-marriage/?utm_source=Specials&utm_campaign=5ebfbf73eb-American_Vision_Store_Special_7_6_2010&utm_medium=email >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 21:45:21 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 08:45:21 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > I would have a hard time trying to reconciling this theory with the > following verses: Well, I don't say that gay/lesbian is ok, as it happen after separation of Eve from Adam. I do agree that gay and lesbian could not multiply by their behavior. But I just want to explore Adam condition before Eve was taken out from him: We know that all creatures created by God could multiply, so, could Adam multiply by himself? If not, then, does God created Adam imperfect (could not multiply)? DK From chris at adebenham.com Tue Jul 6 22:25:00 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:25:00 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On 7 July 2010 11:45, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> I would have a hard time trying to reconciling this theory with the >> following verses: > > Well, I don't say that gay/lesbian is ok, as it happen after > separation of Eve from Adam. > I do agree that gay and lesbian could not multiply by their behavior. > > But I just want to explore Adam condition before Eve was taken out from him: > We know that all creatures created by God could multiply, so, could > Adam multiply by himself? If not, then, does God created Adam > imperfect (could not multiply)? An interesting thought. Was Adam created imperfect because he could not continue his species? >From my reading there was no death before the fall - and so by extension there would be no need to multiply - animals included. The need to reproduce only comes into play when there is risk of death. Imagine if there was no death but animals and man could reproduce - the numbers would grow exponentially for eternity, quickly overwhelming the world. The bible does not explicitly state that animals (or anything) reproduced before the fall - and even in the case of man eve was created to fulfil the need for companionship - not the need to reproduce. After all Adam and Eve had no children until after the fall - suggesting that reproduction was not needed/possible until after the fall - at which point God allowed it since it was now needed to continue the species. The first reference to offspring is in Genesis 2:16 which is after the fall and is to say that childbearing is on it's way and it will hurt. Through all this I can see nothing to suggest that Adam was created as non-gender specific and there is no need for him to be so in order to explain what occurs From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 22:35:13 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 22:35:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C33E7E1.6070404@lightlink.com> On 07/06/2010 07:18 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Just a point to consider: > > When God created Adam, it is supposed to be hermaphrodite. But after > that, God separated the female part from Adam and Adam became male > only. The female part is Eve. This is my interpretation (speculation) > as it is written that Eve was not created from dust, but taken from > Adam. > > If that speculation is correct, gay/lesbian is similar to Adam's > condition before Eve was taken out from him, am I right? > NOT hardly. That is quite a distortion of Scripture and certainly wouldn't want to tell anyone that it is the truth. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Tue Jul 6 22:39:25 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:39:25 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Chris Debenham wrote: > An interesting thought. ?Was Adam created imperfect because he could > not continue his species? > >From my reading there was no death before the fall - and so by > extension there would be no need to multiply - animals included. > The need to reproduce only comes into play when there is risk of > death. ?Imagine if there was no death but animals and man could > reproduce - the numbers would grow exponentially for eternity, quickly > overwhelming the world. Unfortunately your explanation is against what is written in the bible: Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. >From what I have heard, this instruction given by God BEFORE the fall. Further more, why there are male and female before the fall if not for procreation? DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 6 23:15:13 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:15:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> After Eve, not before Eve. Yes, they were to manage and to populate (as well as were all of the animals - "each after their own kind"). Adam was found to be "incomplete" once he had seen and named all of the animals. This was not an "oversight" by the Lord God, He knows all things, it is merely a "turn-of-a-phrase" intending to communicate that Adam recognized his need for one "like himself". The Word is also clear that the one "like himself" had to be different as she was necessary for Adam to complete his purpose, as Adam was necessary for Eve to complete hers - they were one-another's "help-meets" or helpers - in perfect harmony - until after "the Fall". Even if none of this were the case - Adam as a "hermaphrodite" or a "Eunuch" would still not make an argument for homosexuality - there is no compelling logical reason to make that leap. In the Biblical record homosexuality only occurred after the Fall and was immediately and always labeled an act of rebellion against God. Those who wish to promote homosexuality need to stop trying to distort the Word of God and instead write their own "holy book" in order to create their own religion. I am unaware of any religion that promotes homosexuality based on a teaching from their "holy book", but someone may have new information for me on that. Meanwhile there is an opportunity out there for a creative homosexual to write books and to build a new organization - rather than folks trying to co-opt Biblical Christianity. IMHO, YMMV ... > Unfortunately your explanation is against what is written in the bible: > > Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, > and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have > dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and > over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. > > > From what I have heard, this instruction given by God BEFORE the fall. > > Further more, why there are male and female before the fall if not for > procreation? > > DK > From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 23:28:46 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:28:46 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C33F46E.9000305@lightlink.com> On 07/06/2010 08:57 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: [snip] > The Good news is that you can *have been *and be saved from such, but > to continue in sin and deny that it is sin.... how can someone have > forgiveness without repentance? To my way of thinking, the Church > should be standing on the fact that God can deliver you from sin, > rather than condoning it. Seems very cold hearted to condone or even > encourage something that will ultimately lead to someone's eternal > demise. I think judgment will also fall VERY HEAVILY on those who encourage and/or condone it who are supposed to be Christians. Those who condone and/or encourage sin, are just guilty as those who commit the sin. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 23:33:37 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:33:37 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> On 07/06/2010 09:45 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> > I would have a hard time trying to reconciling this theory with the >> > following verses: >> > Well, I don't say that gay/lesbian is ok, as it happen after > separation of Eve from Adam. > I do agree that gay and lesbian could not multiply by their behavior. > > But I just want to explore Adam condition before Eve was taken out from him: > We know that all creatures created by God could multiply, so, could > Adam multiply by himself? If not, then, does God created Adam > imperfect (could not multiply)? > Where do you come up with this stuff?!! Where does Genesis say anything about Adam being anything but a man and Eve being created FOR Adam, using ONLY a rib from Adam....nothing else. I appears that you read into anything that you read whatever it is you want the text to say. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 23:54:30 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:54:30 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C33FA76.1030805@lightlink.com> On 07/06/2010 11:15 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Those who wish to promote homosexuality need to stop trying to distort > the Word of God and instead write their own "holy book" in order to > create their own religion. They've already done that by removing some passages and changing others. I believe it's called the Final Testament. > > I am unaware of any religion that promotes homosexuality based on a > teaching from their "holy book", but someone may have new information > for me on that. > > Meanwhile there is an opportunity out there for a creative homosexual > to write books and to build a new organization - rather than folks trying > to co-opt Biblical Christianity. There are groups on the Net. and off who distort the Scriptures beyond belief to support queerdom. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 6 23:57:05 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2010 23:57:05 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C33FB11.9000401@lightlink.com> On 07/06/2010 11:15 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: [snip] > > Meanwhile there is an opportunity out there for a creative homosexual > to write books and to build a new organization - rather than folks trying > to co-opt Biblical Christianity. David, to see what's been done to twist and malign Scripture, see: http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=2392976 Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 00:30:13 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 11:30:13 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 10:33 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote > Where do you come up with this stuff?!! Where does Genesis say anything > about Adam being anything but a man and Eve being created FOR Adam, using > ONLY a rib from Adam....nothing else. I appears that you read into anything > that you read whatever it is you want the text to say. It is just logic. Or, do you mean we have to stop our logical thinking when reading bible? How could God created only man when the rest of animal and plant could reproduce: Gen 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. Gen 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Fruit and seed is reproduction method for plants. Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. You see, animal also instructed to reproduce before even Adam was created. So, reproduction is NOT after the fall. DK From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 00:56:28 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 00:56:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 12:30 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Gen 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the > moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth > in the open firmament of heaven. > Gen 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that > moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, > and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. > Gen 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and > fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. > > You see, animal also instructed to reproduce before even Adam was created. > > So? That doesn't even suggest that Adam wasn't created fully a man, as a man is today. God created all things His way in His time, including Eve. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:13:59 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:13:59 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > So? That doesn't even suggest that Adam wasn't created fully a man, as a man > is today. God created all things His way in His time, including Eve. Including creating Satan to temp Eve? DK From hpp3 at lavabit.com Wed Jul 7 01:21:12 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 22:21:12 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense ofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com><4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net><4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com><4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <54B28AC5BE44422C8F78397265192E11@alc.sea.local> > -----Original Message----- > From: linux4christians-bounces at thelinuxlink.net [mailto:linux4christians- > bounces at thelinuxlink.net] On Behalf Of David Kuntadi > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:14 PM > To: Linux for Christians > Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense > ofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Fred A. Miller > wrote: > > So? That doesn't even suggest that Adam wasn't created fully a man, as a > man > > is today. God created all things His way in His time, including Eve. > > Including creating Satan to temp Eve? > > DK That was not Satan's original job. His original job (as Lucifer) was to worship and glorify God, as was all of his creation. Certainly God ALLOWED him to tempt Eve, but he was not created to do so. -Eddy From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:25:35 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:25:35 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense ofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <54B28AC5BE44422C8F78397265192E11@alc.sea.local> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <54B28AC5BE44422C8F78397265192E11@alc.sea.local> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Eddy Martin wrote: > That was not Satan's original job. > His original job (as Lucifer) was to worship and glorify God, as was all of > his creation. > Certainly God ALLOWED him to tempt Eve, but he was not created to do so. Lucifer did not exist, it is a myth about Venus. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:29:46 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:29:46 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Lucifer (was: Shellfish Logic and the Defense ofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT!) Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Eddy Martin wrote: >> That was not Satan's original job. >> His original job (as Lucifer) was to worship and glorify God, as was all of >> his creation. >> Certainly God ALLOWED him to tempt Eve, but he was not created to do so. > > Lucifer did not exist, it is a myth about Venus. > > DK Please read below link about lucifer: http://www.elroysemporium.com/news/venus.html From chris at adebenham.com Wed Jul 7 01:29:49 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:29:49 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On 7 July 2010 12:39, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:25 AM, Chris Debenham wrote: >> An interesting thought. ?Was Adam created imperfect because he could >> not continue his species? >> >From my reading there was no death before the fall - and so by >> extension there would be no need to multiply - animals included. >> The need to reproduce only comes into play when there is risk of >> death. ?Imagine if there was no death but animals and man could >> reproduce - the numbers would grow exponentially for eternity, quickly >> overwhelming the world. > > Unfortunately your explanation is against what is written in the bible: > > Gen 1:28 ?And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, > and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have > dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and > over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. > > >From what I have heard, this instruction given by God BEFORE the fall. > My apologies - makes you wonder what would have happened if Adam and Eve had a child before the fall and the child did not have some of the fruit :-) I know it is entirely conjecture but an interesting thought all the same ;-) > Further more, why there are male and female before the fall if not for > procreation? There are many things a man and a woman can do together other than procreation. Companionship, friendship, and even intimate relations can be had without sex. Still - that is a side issue - I'm more interested in what others think about what the result would be if adam/eve did have a child before the fall. From chris at adebenham.com Wed Jul 7 01:30:25 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:30:25 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense ofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <54B28AC5BE44422C8F78397265192E11@alc.sea.local> Message-ID: On 7 July 2010 15:25, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Eddy Martin wrote: >> That was not Satan's original job. >> His original job (as Lucifer) was to worship and glorify God, as was all of >> his creation. >> Certainly God ALLOWED him to tempt Eve, but he was not created to do so. > > Lucifer did not exist, it is a myth about Venus. > > DK Where in the bible do you get that??? From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:32:06 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:32:06 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense ofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <54B28AC5BE44422C8F78397265192E11@alc.sea.local> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: > Where in the bible do you get that??? Please see below link: http://www.elroysemporium.com/news/venus.html DK From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:32:55 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 00:32:55 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] HERMAPHRODYTE ADAM THEORY IS BOTH BLASPHEMOUS AND HERESY. In-Reply-To: <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: Just two of the MANY problems with the "hermaphrodite Adam" theory (generally promoted by those who wish to condone with God condems) are: 1. Adam was formed in God's image, so according to your heresy, God is hermaphrodite. THAT IS BLASPHEMY!!!! 2. The Bible says God took a rib from Adam, and from that rib He FORMED Eve, same Hebrew word used for the formation of Adam from dust. It never says God pulled Eve out of Adam. Paul clearly says a homosexual can REPENT and LEAVE THAT LIFESTYLE and be SAVED (I Corinthians 6:9-11). The phrase used in King James is "... abusers of themselves with mankind...", which Strong's (Greek #3777) gives as clearly as "sodomite". For what it is worth, my wife and I have seen several dozen men and some 20 women delivered from this lifestyle, who are now walking with God, and most are married and living orderly lives. My 2 pesos' worth. Be blessed. Dr. Steve, central old Mexico __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5257 (20100707) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:39:16 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:39:16 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: > My apologies - makes you wonder what would have happened if Adam and > Eve had a child before the fall and the child did not have some of the > fruit :-) > I know it is entirely conjecture but an interesting thought all the same ;-) My church have our own interpretation about this, but might be acceptable for other church. In short, Adam and Eve is only a myth, taken by Moses from Egypt. Remember Moses study everything (including magic) from Egypt. How and when exactly the fall was, that is not really important. But to answer your question about people that did not fall into temptation, they are in heaven as simple as that. So, all the children of Adam and Eve before the fall are in heaven. Adam did not go to heaven as Adam follow Eve. But not the rest of their children before the fall. All of them are in heaven ... does it make sense? DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 01:58:56 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:58:56 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] HERMAPHRODYTE ADAM THEORY IS BOTH BLASPHEMOUS AND HERESY. In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:32 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > 1. Adam was formed in God's image, so according to your heresy, God is > hermaphrodite. THAT IS BLASPHEMY!!!! Do you mean God is male and female then: Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. So, the father is male I guess, and the Son is also male, which one is the female then? > 2. The Bible says God took a rib from Adam, and from that rib He FORMED Eve, > same Hebrew word used for the formation of Adam from dust. It never says God > pulled Eve out of Adam. God could FORMED Eve from dust as well, but it is ok we will use rib as material for Eve instead of dust. How to remove Adam's rib if not pulled from him? Which rib was pulled? My speculation, the rib God pulled from Adam is the female part of Adam. > Paul clearly says a homosexual can REPENT and LEAVE THAT LIFESTYLE and be > SAVED (I Corinthians 6:9-11). ?The phrase used in King James is "... abusers > of themselves with mankind...", which Strong's (Greek #3777) gives as > clearly as "sodomite". I beg your pardon but I don't see any gay/lesbian here.: 1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, The closest is fornicators, which means male prostitute. 1.How do you know his clients are male and not female? 2. Even if the clients are male, why condemn only the prostitute and not the clients as well? DK From hpp3 at lavabit.com Wed Jul 7 02:17:01 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 23:17:01 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Lucifer (was: Shellfish Logic and the DefenseofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT!) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5C48E643948546C1ACDAD2459BF924D2@alc.sea.local> > -----Original Message----- > From: linux4christians-bounces at thelinuxlink.net [mailto:linux4christians- > bounces at thelinuxlink.net] On Behalf Of David Kuntadi > Sent: Tuesday, July 06, 2010 10:30 PM > To: Linux for Christians > Subject: [Linux4christians] Lucifer (was: Shellfish Logic and the > DefenseofHomosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT!) > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:25 PM, David Kuntadi > wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Eddy Martin wrote: > >> That was not Satan's original job. > >> His original job (as Lucifer) was to worship and glorify God, as was > all of > >> his creation. > >> Certainly God ALLOWED him to tempt Eve, but he was not created to do > so. > > > > Lucifer did not exist, it is a myth about Venus. > > > > DK > > Please read below link about lucifer: > http://www.elroysemporium.com/news/venus.html OK, I get it now. You don't actually believe the Bible literally as it is written. To you, the Bible is no more or less authoritative than any other book of myth and fable. We are therefore speaking about two different books, one the living breathing word of God, the other a book of myths and stories. Never mind. (Proverbs 26 got me again...) -Eddy From chris at adebenham.com Wed Jul 7 02:28:30 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 16:28:30 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On 7 July 2010 15:39, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: >> My apologies - makes you wonder what would have happened if Adam and >> Eve had a child before the fall and the child did not have some of the >> fruit :-) >> I know it is entirely conjecture but an interesting thought all the same ;-) > > My church have our own interpretation about this, but might be > acceptable for other church. > In short, Adam and Eve is only a myth, taken by Moses from Egypt. > Remember Moses study everything (including magic) from Egypt. How and > when exactly the fall was, that is not really important. > > But to answer your question about people that did not fall into > temptation, they are in heaven as simple as that. So, all the children > of Adam and Eve before the fall are in heaven. Adam did not go to > heaven as Adam follow Eve. But not the rest of their children before > the fall. All of them are in heaven ... does it make sense? So my understanding of what you are saying is that you do not believe in the bible as the spirit-breathed word of God? The interpretations and extrapolations you are drawing run quite contrary to generally accepted Christian thought (and quite far off from what I believe as well) I do not agree with you on this (or many of the other things you have said) as it seems to me to be gnosticism and/or mis-interpretation but I am curious as to where/how you are coming to these conclusions. What church are you a part of? Is there anywhere which we can read a 'statement of beliefs' or some similar summary to better understand how you are coming to these ideas. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 02:39:12 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:39:12 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: > So my understanding of what you are saying is that you do not believe > in the bible as the spirit-breathed word of God? Nope, we still believe bible is the Word of God. > The interpretations and extrapolations you are drawing run quite > contrary to generally accepted Christian thought (and quite far off > from what I believe as well) In our church, your interpretations is contrary to what we generally believe. > I do not agree with you on this (or many of the other things you have > said) as it seems to me to be gnosticism and/or mis-interpretation but > I am curious as to where/how you are coming to these conclusions. That is why there are so many type of Christians these days > What church are you a part of? We called Indonesian Christian Church, the biggest denomination in Indonesia. Our system is Presbyterian synod church. But I have just converted to Catholic recently, without the need to be baptized again as our church's baptism is recognized by Catholic church. > Is there anywhere which we can read a 'statement of beliefs' or some > similar summary to better understand how you are coming to these > ideas. You could refer to Catholic statement of beliefs, is not far from that. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 02:39:12 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 13:39:12 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: > So my understanding of what you are saying is that you do not believe > in the bible as the spirit-breathed word of God? Nope, we still believe bible is the Word of God. > The interpretations and extrapolations you are drawing run quite > contrary to generally accepted Christian thought (and quite far off > from what I believe as well) In our church, your interpretations is contrary to what we generally believe. > I do not agree with you on this (or many of the other things you have > said) as it seems to me to be gnosticism and/or mis-interpretation but > I am curious as to where/how you are coming to these conclusions. That is why there are so many type of Christians these days > What church are you a part of? We called Indonesian Christian Church, the biggest denomination in Indonesia. Our system is Presbyterian synod church. But I have just converted to Catholic recently, without the need to be baptized again as our church's baptism is recognized by Catholic church. > Is there anywhere which we can read a 'statement of beliefs' or some > similar summary to better understand how you are coming to these > ideas. You could refer to Catholic statement of beliefs, is not far from that. DK From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Jul 7 06:01:44 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 06:01:44 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <1278496904.22149.10.camel@P-733-Lin> On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 06:18 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote: > Just a point to consider: > > When God created Adam, it is supposed to be hermaphrodite. But after > that, God separated the female part from Adam and Adam became male > only. The female part is Eve. This is my interpretation (speculation) > as it is written that Eve was not created from dust, but taken from > Adam. An interesting idea, but I do not see it supported by the text. > If that speculation is correct, gay/lesbian is similar to Adam?s > condition before Eve was taken out from him, am I right? No these are definitely different situation. > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > > > http://americanvision.org/3112/shellfish-logic-and-the-defense-of-homosexual-marriage/?utm_source=Specials&utm_campaign=5ebfbf73eb-American_Vision_Store_Special_7_6_2010&utm_medium=email > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Jul 7 06:10:23 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 06:10:23 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 19:57 -0500, Billy F. Staggs wrote: {snip} > > 1 Corinthians 6:9?11 (KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not > inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor > idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves > with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, > nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some > of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified > in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. > > (NKJV, NASB, ESV, & NET use 'homosexual' the above.) They are wrong in that usage, at least according to my Vines Expository Dictionary. (effeminate) From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Jul 7 06:21:34 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 06:21:34 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C33FB11.9000401@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> <4C33FB11.9000401@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <1278498094.22149.16.camel@P-733-Lin> On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 23:57 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 07/06/2010 11:15 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > > [snip] > > > > > Meanwhile there is an opportunity out there for a creative > > homosexual > > to write books and to build a new organization - rather than folks > > trying > > to co-opt Biblical Christianity. > > David, to see what's been done to twist and malign Scripture, see: > http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=2392976 Hard to believe that it is a serious book: "Contributors draw on feminist, queer, deconstructionist, utopian theories, the social sciences and historical-critical discourse.", reads more like a wish list of misinformed dogmatists. From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Wed Jul 7 07:31:55 2010 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 07:31:55 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C3465AB.1070601@thelinuxlink.net> David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 12:29 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: >> My apologies - makes you wonder what would have happened if Adam and >> Eve had a child before the fall and the child did not have some of the >> fruit :-) >> I know it is entirely conjecture but an interesting thought all the same ;-) > > My church have our own interpretation about this, but might be > acceptable for other church. > In short, Adam and Eve is only a myth, taken by Moses from Egypt. > Remember Moses study everything (including magic) from Egypt. How and > when exactly the fall was, that is not really important. > > But to answer your question about people that did not fall into > temptation, they are in heaven as simple as that. So, all the children > of Adam and Eve before the fall are in heaven. Adam did not go to > heaven as Adam follow Eve. But not the rest of their children before > the fall. All of them are in heaven ... does it make sense? > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians You are sure setting yourself up for some heated conversation David. Bear in mind that this is a Christian mailing list. While I do not mind non-Christians on the list, be forwarned to keep things civil. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 07:49:02 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 18:49:02 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C3465AB.1070601@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C3465AB.1070601@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:31 PM, l4c wrote: > You are sure setting yourself up for some heated conversation David. Bear in > mind that this is a Christian mailing list. ?While I do not mind > non-Christians on the list, be forwarned to keep things civil. I am not non-Christian ( I am catholic) and I did not started this thread, just respond to it. And what I have written here is not my own thought, nor it is non-christian thought. It is my (previous) Christian church interpretation of bible. DK From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Wed Jul 7 08:20:22 2010 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:20:22 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C3465AB.1070601@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4C347106.7010006@thelinuxlink.net> David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 6:31 PM, l4c wrote: >> You are sure setting yourself up for some heated conversation David. Bear in >> mind that this is a Christian mailing list. While I do not mind >> non-Christians on the list, be forwarned to keep things civil. > > I am not non-Christian ( I am catholic) and I did not started this > thread, just respond to it. And what I have written here is not my own > thought, nor it is non-christian thought. It is my (previous) > Christian church interpretation of bible. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > From Wikipedia: Adherents of the Christian faith, known as Christians,[4] believe that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew Bible (the part of scripture common to Christianity and Judaism, and referred to as the "Old Testament" in Christianity). The foundation of Christian theology is expressed in the early Christian ecumenical creeds, which contain claims predominantly accepted by followers of the Christian faith.[5] These professions state that Jesus suffered, died from crucifixion, was buried, and was resurrected from the dead to open heaven to those who believe in him and trust him for the remission of their sins (salvation).[6] They further maintain that Jesus bodily ascended into heaven where he rules and reigns with God the Father. Most denominations teach that Jesus will return to judge all humans, living and dead, and grant eternal life to his followers. He is considered the model of a virtuous life, and both the revealer and physical incarnation of God.[7] Christians call the message of Jesus Christ the Gospel ("good news") and hence refer to the earliest written accounts of his ministry as gospels. Now, as I have read, what your old *church* taught was that the Bible is a bunch of myths. If those were only myths, then any prophesy pointing towards Jesus as the Messiah would be invalid. No prophecies, no Jesus as Messiah, no Christianity as far as I can see. If only some of the stories are myths, then which ones? Who gets to pick and choose which ones? Your personal understanding and theology aside, as you have mentioned that this was not your own thought, but the church you were at that taught this stuff certainly does not appear to be Christian at all to me . I am very glad you are no longer there. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 08:40:01 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:40:01 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C347106.7010006@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C3465AB.1070601@thelinuxlink.net> <4C347106.7010006@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:20 PM, l4c wrote: > Now, as I have read, what your old *church* taught was that the Bible is a > bunch of myths. When did I said that? I only refer to Adam and Eve story, not the whole bible. > If those were only myths, then any prophesy pointing > towards Jesus as the Messiah would be invalid. ?No prophecies, no Jesus as > Messiah, no Christianity as far as I can see. ?If only some of the stories > are myths, then which ones? ?Who gets to pick and choose which ones? What I understand, those pastors could separate which one is myth, and which ones is not based on hermeneutic theory. But in fact that church still believe that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the Hebrew Bible. DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 09:30:32 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 08:30:32 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C348178.7050508@staggs.net> I don't believe the Angels were created to multiple, but I could be wrong. (Matthew 22:29--30) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. Nor do I find any references to female angels in the Bible. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/6/2010 8:45 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:57 AM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> I would have a hard time trying to reconciling this theory with the >> following verses: >> > Well, I don't say that gay/lesbian is ok, as it happen after > separation of Eve from Adam. > I do agree that gay and lesbian could not multiply by their behavior. > > But I just want to explore Adam condition before Eve was taken out from him: > We know that all creatures created by God could multiply, so, could > Adam multiply by himself? If not, then, does God created Adam > imperfect (could not multiply)? > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorkon at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 09:32:06 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:32:06 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C3465AB.1070601@thelinuxlink.net> <4C347106.7010006@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: The Adam and Eve story is in the Bible and if you are a believer in it, then we are all decedents of Adam and Eve. As Linc says, who gets to pick and choose?? I know someone did a long time ago but I am not in a place to pick and choose. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:40 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 7:20 PM, l4c wrote: >> Now, as I have read, what your old *church* taught was that the Bible is a >> bunch of myths. > > When did I said that? I only refer to Adam and Eve story, not the whole bible. > >> If those were only myths, then any prophesy pointing >> towards Jesus as the Messiah would be invalid. ?No prophecies, no Jesus as >> Messiah, no Christianity as far as I can see. ?If only some of the stories >> are myths, then which ones? ?Who gets to pick and choose which ones? > > What I understand, those pastors could separate which one is myth, and > which ones is not based on hermeneutic theory. ?But in fact that > church still believe that Jesus is the Messiah prophesied in the > Hebrew Bible. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 09:35:04 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 20:35:04 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C348178.7050508@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C348178.7050508@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > I don't believe the Angels were created to multiple, but I could be wrong. > > (Matthew 22:29?30) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing > the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither > marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. > > Nor do I find any references to female angels in the Bible. Do you mean Adam was an angel? DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 10:10:45 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:10:45 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> Mike, Ok, you don't agree with the translation of 'effeminate' to 'homosexual' as used by some modern translations, fair enough but what do you believe is correct? Effeminate is certainly not a common word in our day and knowledge of an alternate translation would seem to be helpful if not necessary. Surely Paul is not saying that being less than a masculine man is sinful and in league with fornicators and adulterers? That would seem strangely out of place in the following Scripture, to me anyway. Since you disagree I am curious to hear you thoughts. (1 Corinthians 6:9?11) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor *effeminate*, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. / I sited a couple of references below which I feel gives some creditability //(granted it's augmentative) //to the NKJV, NASB, ESV & NET translators for their use of the word 'homosexual'./ *** Webster's Dictionary *** 1ef?fem?i?nate \-n?t\ adjective [Middle English, from Latin effeminatus, from past participle of effeminare to make effeminate, from ex- + femina woman ? more at FEMININE] 15th century 1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in appearance or manner 2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement ?effeminate art? ?an effeminate civilization? Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc. *** Enhanced Strong's Lexicon on G3120 /(Greek word used for effeminate)/ *** 3120 ??????? [malakos /mal?ak?os/] adj. Of uncertain affinity; GK 3434; Four occurrences; AV translates as ?soft? three times, and ?effeminate? once. 1 soft, soft to the touch. 2 metaph. in a bad sense. 2A effeminate. 2A1 of a catamite. 2A2 of a boy kept for *homosexual *relations with a man. 2A3 of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness. 2A4 of a male prostitute. Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : Showing every word of the text of the common English version of the canonical books, and every occurrence of each word in regular order. (electronic ed.). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship. *** Dictionary of Biblical Languages *** 3434 ??????? (malakos), ? (?), ?? (on): adj.; ? Str 3120?1. LN 79.100 soft, fine, clothing delicate to the touch (Mt 11:8; Lk 7:25+); 2. LN 88.281 *homosexual*, passive partner in male-to-male sex act.: male prostitute (NIV), *effeminate *(NASB, ASV, KJV), *homosexual *(NKJV), (homo)sexual pervert (RSV, REB, NEB conflated translation), self indulgent (NJB!), boy prostitute, i.e., a catamite (NAB see ftnt), (1Co 6:9+) Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/7/2010 5:10 AM, Mike McMullin wrote: > On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 19:57 -0500, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > {snip} > >> 1 Corinthians 6:9?11 (KJV) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not >> inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor >> idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves >> with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, >> nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some >> of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified >> in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. >> >> (NKJV, NASB, ESV,& NET use 'homosexual' the above.) >> > They are wrong in that usage, at least according to my Vines > Expository Dictionary. (effeminate) > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 10:26:30 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:26:30 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Mike, > > Ok, you don't agree with the translation of 'effeminate' to 'homosexual' as > used by some modern translations, fair enough but what do you believe is > correct? May be below explanation could help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effeminacy Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of women, certain trades, and too much coitus with women were all deemed effeminate traits in Roman society. DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 10:29:56 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:29:56 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> but keep reading.... Effeminacy From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia *Effeminacy* describes having traits that are more often associated with traditional feminine behaviour, conduct, style and gender roles rather than masculine behaviour, conduct, style and roles. It is a term frequently applied to womanly behavior, demeanor, style and appearance displayed by a man, typically used implying criticism or ridicule of this behaviour (as opposed to, for example, merely describing a man as feminine , which is more neutral). The term /effeminate/ is most often used by people who subscribe to the conventional view that men should conform to traditional masculine traits and behaviours. Generally, the description is applied to individuals, but may be used to describe entire societies as an inflammatory allegation. Although in the Western tradition, as described below, effeminacy has often been considered a vice , indicative of other negative character traits and often involving a pejorative insinuation of *homosexual tendencies*,..... -- bstaggs <>< On 7/7/2010 9:26 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> Mike, >> >> Ok, you don't agree with the translation of 'effeminate' to 'homosexual' as >> used by some modern translations, fair enough but what do you believe is >> correct? >> > May be below explanation could help: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effeminacy > Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of > women, certain trades, and too much coitus with women were all deemed > effeminate traits in Roman society. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 10:38:22 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 21:38:22 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > but keep reading.... Well, you could choose to interpret it as homosexual, but it could be interpreted as womanizer too, right? How do you know that homosexual is a better interpretation? Was there no such word (homosexual) at that time so as Paul has to use other word? DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 10:40:27 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:40:27 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C348178.7050508@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C3491DB.8030602@staggs.net> No I do not. I believe I was responding to your comment, and I quote "We know that all creatures created by God could multiply". Is that not what you wrote? Are not angels consider 'creatures created by God?' Why then would your infer that I was calling Adam an angel? I don't mind a good discussion, but please let us not take each others comments out of context to make a point. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/7/2010 8:35 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:30 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> I don't believe the Angels were created to multiple, but I could be wrong. >> >> (Matthew 22:29?30) Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing >> the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither >> marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. >> >> Nor do I find any references to female angels in the Bible. >> > Do you mean Adam was an angel? > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 10:56:14 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:56:14 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> No I would not, either by the article sited, nor any defination that I have ever heard would I agree with 'womanizer' used for 'effeminate'. In fact I would get quite the opposite, namley a male not intrested in woman at all. Actually what it (the article and or the pictures) makes he think of is: (Romans 1:26--27) For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, *leaving the natural use of the woman*, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. ) You did read down far enough to see: Effeminacy and gay men In the United States, boys are often homosocial (Gagnon, 1977), and gender role performance determines social rank .... OR The Bible /Malakos / is listed among other vices in the New Testament book of I Corinthians 6:9. Translations use different terms to express this: "The JB (1966) chooses 'catamite,' the NAB (1970) renders /arsenokoit?s/ and /malakos/ together as '*sodomite*,' others translate /malakos/ as 'male prostitute' (NIV 1973, NRSV 1989), and again some combine both terms and offer the modern medicalised categories of sexual, or *particularly homosexual, 'perversion*' (RSV 1946, TEV 1966, NEB 1970, REB 1992)." (Martin, 1996). The word /malakos/, #3120 in the Greek Dictionary of The New Testament of James Strong's Exhaustive Concordance to The Bible translates: "of uncertain affinity ". What did you read in the article to get 'womanizer'? Perpahs we do not agree on the term 'womanizer' either. To me it is a man overly reoccupied with woman. Think Bill Clinton... Sorry I couldn't resist. :-) -- bstaggs <>< On 7/7/2010 9:38 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:29 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> but keep reading.... >> > Well, you could choose to interpret it as homosexual, but it could be > interpreted as womanizer too, right? > How do you know that homosexual is a better interpretation? Was there > no such word (homosexual) at that time so as Paul has to use other > word? > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 11:09:44 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:09:44 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C3491DB.8030602@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C348178.7050508@staggs.net> <4C3491DB.8030602@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:40 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > No I do not. ?I believe I was responding to your comment, and I quote "We > know that all creatures created by God could multiply". ? ?Is that not what > you wrote? Are not angels consider 'creatures created by God?' Why then > would your infer that I was calling Adam an angel? ?I don't mind a good > discussion, but please let us not take each others comments out of context > to make a point. And the context here is Genesis 1 and 2, where God created all creatures on earth. That is why I am confuse when you talk about angels. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 11:13:30 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:13:30 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > What did you read in the article to get 'womanizer'? Perpahs we do not > agree on the term 'womanizer' either. To me it is a man overly reoccupied > with woman. Think Bill Clinton... Sorry I couldn't resist. :-) I thought I have copied it in my first post referring to this article: Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of women, certain trades, and *too much coitus with women were all deemed effeminate* traits in Roman society. DK -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 11:21:13 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 10:21:13 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C349B69.90604@staggs.net> Sorry, yes you did quote part of the paragraph, but again, keep reading.... Rome Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of women, certain trades, and too much coitus with women were all deemed effeminate traits in Roman society. Taking an inappropriate sexual position---passive or "bottom" (kinaidos, see above)---in *same-gender sex* was considered effeminate and unnatural. Touching the head with a finger and wearing a goatee were also considered effeminate (Holland, 2004). -- bstaggs <>< On 7/7/2010 10:13 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:56 PM, Billy F. Staggs > wrote: > > What did you read in the article to get 'womanizer'? Perpahs we do not > > agree on the term 'womanizer' either. To me it is a man overly > reoccupied > > with woman. Think Bill Clinton... Sorry I couldn't resist. :-) > > I thought I have copied it in my first post referring to this article: > > Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of > women, certain trades, and *_too much coitus with women were all deemed > effeminate_* traits in Roman society. > > DK > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Wed Jul 7 14:46:51 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:46:51 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C349B69.90604@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> <4C349B69.90604@staggs.net> Message-ID: Wow. A week of little to no discussion at all, and look what suddenly exploded! So many interesting comments, it will take me a while to digest all of this... One thing I wanted to throw into the mix was the discussion on the word "malakos" from 1 Corinthians 6. Various Bible translations interpret this as "effeminate" or "homosexual", but I don't see how they made that leap. Understand, I'm not saying there is no scriptural basis indicating homosexual acts are a sin; indeed the other verses mentioned in this thread make it quite clear that homosexual relations are every bit as unacceptable as reviling, gossiping, coveting, or drunkenness (good thing none of us are ever guilty of any of that, eh?) But I have always wondered about this specific verse. Jesus uses the term "malakos" Himself in Matthew 11:8 -- "But what did you go out to see? A man dressed in soft clothing [malakos]? No, those who wear soft clothing are in palaces." My theory is that this term -- in both Matthew and 1 Corinthians -- suggests a disapproval of the pampered, the overprivileged. The condemnation here is not against effeminacy or clothing styles, but against self-indulgence to the neglect of others less fortunate. Remember, Jesus spoke extensively in metaphorical images. But that's just my own reading of the term, and really a minor nit to pick against the greater message conveyed throughout scripture. Some of this other stuff... hoo boy. Some parts (but not all) of God's word are just a myth, and certain pastors are gifted with the ability to tell us what is true and what is myth? And even if you accept the rather bizarre proposition that Adam was created as a hermaphrodite, hermaphrodite != homosexual, so you couldn't use that premise to justify homosexuality even if it were true Rock on, brothers and sisters. Shalom, *PBS* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Wed Jul 7 14:57:48 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:57:48 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question Message-ID: If I may interrupt the theological storm brewing :-) and ask something about computers... I wonder if anyone here can help me with a hardware problem? I took on the job of running my small church's sound system last year, and in addition to the mixer there is also an overhead projector, NEC VT-460, on the ceiling about 50 feet away from the old PC in the sound booth. For reasons that escape me, the people who installed all this chose to connect the projector to the PC by way of a homemade cable that is a hybrid of ethernet and VGA -- a VGA connector plugs in to the projector on one end and an ethernet cable on the other that goes through the ceiling and comes out at my feet where it transforms once again back to VGA to plug into the PC's dual-head video card. Not surprisingly, this homemade cable gives us endless problems because the solder job was not very strong and it almost seems like every time the wind blows one or two wires break loose from the solder joints. So our pastor charged me with the task of finding a better cable. Since the existing cable is nonstandard, I can't just get an exact replacement (nor would I want to!) According to the user manual at NEC (link here), it needs a "commercially available distribution amplifier". I don't even know what that means! Can someone help me locate the correct cable for this? If I understand the diagram correctly, it needs to be VGA male on both ends of the cable. What do the rest of y'all use for ceiling-mounted projectors? PS - while I was writing the above, a sales rep from cablesnmor.com wrote me to say that I don't need an amplifier for distances less than 200 feet, so this may be easier than I thought depending on the responses I get in this thread. Shalom, *PBS* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From karl at kleinpaste.org Wed Jul 7 15:02:19 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:02:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: (Peter B. Steiger's message of "Wed, 7 Jul 2010 12:46:51 -0600") References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> <4C349B69.90604@staggs.net> Message-ID: "Peter B. Steiger" writes: > One thing I wanted to throw into the mix was the discussion on the word > "malakos" from 1 Corinthians 6. Various Bible translations interpret this > as "effeminate" or "homosexual", but I don't see how they made that leap. ... > But I have always wondered about this specific verse. Jesus uses the term > "malakos" Himself in Matthew 11:8 NET Bible has this footnote on the word's use: | This term is sometimes rendered "effeminate," although in contemporary | English usage such a translation could be taken to refer to demeanor | rather than behavior. BDAG 613 s.v. ??????? 2 has "pert. to being | passive in a same-sex relationship, /effeminate/ esp. of /catamites/, | of men and boys who are sodomized by other males in such a | relationship." L&N 88.281 states, "the passive male partner in | homosexual intercourse - `homosexual.' ...As in Greek, a number of | other languages also have entirely distinct terms for the active and | passive roles in homosexual intercourse." Like many words in English, the meaning is very context-sensitive. I have no difficulty with understanding that a reference to the overprivileged in one context (Matt 11) is not in conflict with a reference to homosexual sex in another (1Cor 6). I count on (and must trust) that translators will in general do their best to grasp those contextual differences. From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 7 15:00:36 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:00:36 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 35:1-5 (Thursday) Message-ID: <4C34CED4.7090502@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 35:1-5 (Thursday)* The Return to Bethel 35:1 Then God said to Jacob, "Go up at once to Bethel and live there. Make an altar there to God, who appeared to you when you fled from your brother Esau." 35:2 So Jacob told his household and all who were with him, "Get rid of the foreign gods you have among you. Purify yourselves and change your clothes. 35:3 Let us go up at once to Bethel. Then I will make an altar there to God, who responded to me in my time of distress and has been with me wherever I went." 35:4 So they gave Jacob all the foreign gods that were in their possession and the rings that were in their ears. Jacob buried them under the oak near Shechem 35:5 and they started on their journey. The surrounding cities were afraid of God, and they did not pursue the sons of Jacob. Prayer: Lord, may I pause regularly to fellowship with You, to lift praises to You, and to clear-out anything that is an idol which displaces You in any part of my life. Commentary After the action of Simeon and Levi God instructs Israel to relocate his people and to stop and renew their commitment to Him as their Lord God. Before the people of Israel are prepared to build an altar and worship the Lord God they needed to remove all of the idols from their presence and to prepare their bodies and clothes as seemed proper to come into the presence (however indirect) of heavenly-royalty. Meanwhile, God had placed fear in the hearts of the "cities" around them -- as He has with Laban -- so that they did not dare to attack Israel. Interaction *Consider this:* Jacob/Israel has a developing relationship with God, as a young man it seemed to be non-existent, then it was somewhat superstitious, and only in his later years did it seem to grow into more of a relationship and one where God became his Lord God. *Discuss this:* While we have a significantly different relationship with the Lord God than that of pre- Cross/Resurrection/Pentecost Old Testament (and early New Testament) people He is still the royalty of royalty and deserving of our honor and obedience and praise. How do we prepare ourselves to enter into His presence for special times of praise and worship? *Reflect on this:* Israel appears to have been aware of the presence of idols among his people yet his relationship with and understanding of the Lord God has matured to where he knew that those idols must be removed. *Share this:* When have you felt led to prepare yourself in a special way to enter into praise and worship of God -- what did that process look like for you? *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any idols in your life. [Note: Idols may be people we hold up so high that their opinion or approval eclipses that of God and His Word, may be money or power, fame or appearance, possessions or talents, elements of other religions merged with Biblical Christianity, habits that are superstition-based, etc.] *Action:* I will partner with the Holy Spirit, and as-necessary a fellow believer, to prayerfully discern the presence of any idols in my life. Since I am in His presence always, due to His indwelling Holy Spirit, any idols are always an offense to Him. I agree to purge those idols from my life and to make an intentional effort to keep them and others from entering-in ever again. *Be Specific* _______________________________________________________________________ */Friday's text will be: Genesis 35:6-29/ * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Wed Jul 7 15:03:50 2010 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:03:50 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> Peter B. Steiger wrote: > If I may interrupt the theological storm brewing :-) and ask something > about computers... I wonder if anyone here can help me with a hardware > problem? > > I took on the job of running my small church's sound system last year, > and in addition to the mixer there is also an overhead projector, NEC > VT-460, on the ceiling about 50 feet away from the old PC in the sound > booth. For reasons that escape me, the people who installed all this > chose to connect the projector to the PC by way of a homemade cable that > is a hybrid of ethernet and VGA -- a VGA connector plugs in to the > projector on one end and an ethernet cable on the other that goes > through the ceiling and comes out at my feet where it transforms once > again back to VGA to plug into the PC's dual-head video card. > > Not surprisingly, this homemade cable gives us endless problems because > the solder job was not very strong and it almost seems like every time > the wind blows one or two wires break loose from the solder joints. So > our pastor charged me with the task of finding a better cable. > > Since the existing cable is nonstandard, I can't just get an exact > replacement (nor would I want to!) According to the user manual at NEC > (link here > ), > it needs a "commercially available distribution amplifier". I don't > even know what that means! Can someone help me locate the correct cable > for this? If I understand the diagram correctly, it needs to be VGA > male on both ends of the cable. What do the rest of y'all use for > ceiling-mounted projectors? > > PS - while I was writing the above, a sales rep from cablesnmor.com > wrote me to say that I don't need an amplifier > for distances less than 200 feet, so this may be easier than I thought > depending on the responses I get in this thread. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians http://www.amazon.com/Startech-Monitor-Cable-Hddb15m-hddb15m/dp/B000067SPM $16.33 -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 15:07:21 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 14:07:21 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> <4C349B69.90604@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C34D069.8030608@staggs.net> Peter, Interesting point on Matthew 11:8. Here is what the NET Bible's translator's notes say about their choice in 1Cor 6.9: This term is sometimes rendered "effeminate," although in contemporary English usage such a translation could be taken to refer to demeanor rather than behavior. BDAG 613 s.v. ??????? 2 has "pert. to being passive in a same-sex relationship, effeminate esp. of catamites, of men and boys who are sodomized by other males in such a relationship." L&N 88.281 states, "the passive male partner in homosexual intercourse - 'homosexual.' ...As in Greek, a number of other languages also have entirely distinct terms for the active and passive roles in homosexual intercourse." See also the discussion in G. D. Fee, First Corinthians (NICNT), 243--44. A number of modern translations have adopted the phrase "male prostitutes" for ??????? in 1 Cor 6:9 (NIV, NRSV, NLT) but this could be misunderstood by the modern reader to mean "males who sell their services to women," while the term in question appears, at least in context, to relate to homosexual activity between males. Furthermore, it is far from certain that prostitution as commonly understood (the selling of sexual favors) is specified here, as opposed to a consensual relationship. Thus the translation "passive homosexual partners" has been used here. Biblical Studies Press. (2006; 2006). The NET Bible First Edition; Bible. English. NET Bible.; The NET Bible. Biblical Studies Press. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/7/2010 1:46 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Wow. A week of little to no discussion at all, and look what suddenly > exploded! So many interesting comments, it will take me a while to > digest all of this... > > One thing I wanted to throw into the mix was the discussion on the > word "malakos" from 1 Corinthians 6. Various Bible translations > interpret this as "effeminate" or "homosexual", but I don't see how > they made that leap. > > Understand, I'm not saying there is no scriptural basis indicating > homosexual acts are a sin; indeed the other verses mentioned in this > thread make it quite clear that homosexual relations are every bit as > unacceptable as reviling, gossiping, coveting, or drunkenness (good > thing none of us are ever guilty of any of that, eh?) > > But I have always wondered about this specific verse. Jesus uses the > term "malakos" Himself in Matthew 11:8 -- "But what did you go out to > see? A man dressed in soft clothing [malakos]? No, those who wear > soft clothing are in palaces." > > My theory is that this term -- in both Matthew and 1 Corinthians -- > suggests a disapproval of the pampered, the overprivileged. The > condemnation here is not against effeminacy or clothing styles, but > against self-indulgence to the neglect of others less fortunate. > Remember, Jesus spoke extensively in metaphorical images. > > But that's just my own reading of the term, and really a minor nit to > pick against the greater message conveyed throughout scripture. > > Some of this other stuff... hoo boy. Some parts (but not all) of > God's word are just a myth, and certain pastors are gifted with the > ability to tell us what is true and what is myth? And even if you > accept the rather bizarre proposition that Adam was created as a > hermaphrodite, hermaphrodite != homosexual, so you couldn't use that > premise to justify homosexuality even if it were true > > Rock on, brothers and sisters. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorkon at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 15:08:06 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:08:06 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: How about a longer one to account for slack: http://www.nextag.com/100-ft-vga-cable/search-html On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:03 PM, l4c wrote: > Peter B. Steiger wrote: >> >> If I may interrupt the theological storm brewing :-) and ask something >> about computers... I wonder if anyone here can help me with a hardware >> problem? >> >> I took on the job of running my small church's sound system last year, and >> in addition to the mixer there is also an overhead projector, NEC VT-460, on >> the ceiling about 50 feet away from the old PC in the sound booth. ?For >> reasons that escape me, the people who installed all this chose to connect >> the projector to the PC by way of a homemade cable that is a hybrid of >> ethernet and VGA -- a VGA connector plugs in to the projector on one end and >> an ethernet cable on the other that goes through the ceiling and comes out >> at my feet where it transforms once again back to VGA to plug into the PC's >> dual-head video card. >> >> Not surprisingly, this homemade cable gives us endless problems because >> the solder job was not very strong and it almost seems like every time the >> wind blows one or two wires break loose from the solder joints. ?So our >> pastor charged me with the task of finding a better cable. >> >> Since the existing cable is nonstandard, I can't just get an exact >> replacement (nor would I want to!) ?According to the user manual at NEC >> (link here >> ), >> it needs a "commercially available distribution amplifier". ?I don't even >> know what that means! ?Can someone help me locate the correct cable for >> this? ?If I understand the diagram correctly, it needs to be VGA male on >> both ends of the cable. ?What do the rest of y'all use for ceiling-mounted >> projectors? >> >> PS - while I was writing the above, a sales rep from cablesnmor.com >> wrote me to say that I don't need an amplifier for >> distances less than 200 feet, so this may be easier than I thought depending >> on the responses I get in this thread. >> >> Shalom, >> */PBS/* >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > http://www.amazon.com/Startech-Monitor-Cable-Hddb15m-hddb15m/dp/B000067SPM > $16.33 > -- > -Linc Fessenden > > In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From gorkon at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 15:15:03 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:15:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: References: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: Oh and there's no guarantees that this would work either. Theoretically, it should. The problem becomes one of loss. Does the computer produce enough signal to drive the projector? That is why I think they said you'd need a distribution amp. Ie you'd need something like: http://www.svideo.com/extvga145.html This would drive four monitors. You could connect it near the projector to help keep things nice and stable. On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > How about a longer one to account for slack: > > http://www.nextag.com/100-ft-vga-cable/search-html > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:03 PM, l4c wrote: >> Peter B. Steiger wrote: >>> >>> If I may interrupt the theological storm brewing :-) and ask something >>> about computers... I wonder if anyone here can help me with a hardware >>> problem? >>> >>> I took on the job of running my small church's sound system last year, and >>> in addition to the mixer there is also an overhead projector, NEC VT-460, on >>> the ceiling about 50 feet away from the old PC in the sound booth. ?For >>> reasons that escape me, the people who installed all this chose to connect >>> the projector to the PC by way of a homemade cable that is a hybrid of >>> ethernet and VGA -- a VGA connector plugs in to the projector on one end and >>> an ethernet cable on the other that goes through the ceiling and comes out >>> at my feet where it transforms once again back to VGA to plug into the PC's >>> dual-head video card. >>> >>> Not surprisingly, this homemade cable gives us endless problems because >>> the solder job was not very strong and it almost seems like every time the >>> wind blows one or two wires break loose from the solder joints. ?So our >>> pastor charged me with the task of finding a better cable. >>> >>> Since the existing cable is nonstandard, I can't just get an exact >>> replacement (nor would I want to!) ?According to the user manual at NEC >>> (link here >>> ), >>> it needs a "commercially available distribution amplifier". ?I don't even >>> know what that means! ?Can someone help me locate the correct cable for >>> this? ?If I understand the diagram correctly, it needs to be VGA male on >>> both ends of the cable. ?What do the rest of y'all use for ceiling-mounted >>> projectors? >>> >>> PS - while I was writing the above, a sales rep from cablesnmor.com >>> wrote me to say that I don't need an amplifier for >>> distances less than 200 feet, so this may be easier than I thought depending >>> on the responses I get in this thread. >>> >>> Shalom, >>> */PBS/* >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Linux4christians mailing list >>> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >>> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> >> http://www.amazon.com/Startech-Monitor-Cable-Hddb15m-hddb15m/dp/B000067SPM >> $16.33 >> -- >> -Linc Fessenden >> >> In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> > > > > -- > Joel McLaughlin > Life in Ohio Podcast > life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com > gorkon at gmail.com > http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com > joel at geardiary.com > geardiary.com > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 7 16:00:11 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 16:00:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: References: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4C34DCCB.2050500@bibleseven.com> I was once told that I could not run a serial cable more than 200'. I ran it nearly 2,000' - successfully. The "trick"? Heavier gauge cable - for lower loss. Other than expense and another point of potential failure (complication) the distribution amp is a terrific solution as it will not only deliver a strong signal - but because it is initially strong it should arrive with little or no added noise from the trip. (Note: All amps will add some noise but the better ones add so little you will either see nor hear it. A weak signal will "acquire" noise along the way.) > Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > Oh and there's no guarantees that this would work either. > Theoretically, it should. The problem becomes one of loss. Does the > computer produce enough signal to drive the projector? That is why I > think they said you'd need a distribution amp. Ie you'd need > something like: > > http://www.svideo.com/extvga145.html > > This would drive four monitors. You could connect it near the > projector to help keep things nice and stable. > > > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 3:08 PM, Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > >> How about a longer one to account for slack: >> >> http://www.nextag.com/100-ft-vga-cable/search-html >> >> -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Wed Jul 7 16:09:55 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 15:09:55 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> <4C34958E.6050302@staggs.net> <4C349B69.90604@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C34DF13.60709@staggs.net> On 7/7/2010 1:46 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: {snip} > Understand, I'm not saying there is no scriptural basis indicating > homosexual acts are a sin; indeed the other verses mentioned in this > thread make it quite clear that homosexual relations are every bit as > unacceptable as reviling, gossiping, coveting, or drunkenness (good > thing none of us are ever guilty of any of that, eh?) I couldn't agree more that there are serveral 'sins' listed in 1 Corinthians 9:9-10 (all very forgivable by our Lord, assuming one repents and turns away from such acts) and that we must be mindful of this (but for the Grace of God, there go I); However I am yet to see groups of fornicators, adulterers, thieves, covertors, drunkards, reviles, or extorters, stand up and say that they are justified in their sins and that for all these years we have been misinterpreting the Bible. I can't say the same of homosexuals. When I was sin I knew I was in sin and I for one am thankful that "repent and be saved" was preached to me. The interesting (perhaps not the best choice of words) thing about this is the number of main stream Christian Churches that are giving in to this rewriting of the Christian Faith. Oddly enough, I have always thought the Word was as clear on this as it is on adultery, fornication, bestiality, etc. But it's not like we weren't forewarned: ( 2 Timothy 4:1--5 ) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. {snip} > Rock on, brothers and sisters. > > Shalom, > */PBS/* > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Wed Jul 7 16:39:39 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 14:39:39 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: <4C34DCCB.2050500@bibleseven.com> References: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> <4C34DCCB.2050500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: Joe said: > Oh and there's no guarantees that this would work either. > Theoretically, it should. The problem becomes one of loss. Does the > computer produce enough signal to drive the projector? That is why I > think they said you'd need a distribution amp. Ie you'd need > something like: > > http://www.svideo.com/extvga145.html > > This would drive four monitors. You could connect it near the > projector to help keep things nice and stable. > Since the projector is hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the sanctuary, I'm not sure that's feasible. How can I tell whether the computer produces enough signal to drive the projector? Then David said: > I ran it nearly 2,000' - successfully. > > The "trick"? Heavier gauge cable - for lower loss. > > Other than expense and another point of potential failure (complication) > the distribution amp is a terrific solution as it will not only deliver a > strong signal - but because it is initially strong it should arrive with > little > or no added noise from the trip. (Note: All amps will add some noise > but the better ones add so little you will either see nor hear it. A weak > signal will "acquire" noise along the way.) > > So... are you saying I do need an amplifier, or not? This is the cable I'm thinking of getting: http://www.cablesnmor.com/v33033.aspx Claims to be "extra shielded" with "ferrite cores on each end for noise suppression". Is that good? Shalom, *PBS* -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za Wed Jul 7 16:51:52 2010 From: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za (Raoul Snyman) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:51:52 +0200 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <201007072251.52679.raoul.snyman@saturnlaboratories.co.za> On Wednesday 07 July 2010 20:57:48 Peter B. Steiger wrote: > Since the existing cable is nonstandard, I can't just get an exact > replacement (nor would I want to!) According to the user manual at NEC, > it needs a "commercially available > distribution amplifier". I don't even know what that means! Can someone > help me locate the correct cable for this? If I understand the diagram > correctly, it needs to be VGA male on both ends of the cable. What do the > rest of y'all use for ceiling-mounted projectors? At my old church, the cable between the computer and the projector is about 40-50m long. It works just fine, with no repeaters (amplifiers) in between. I do think the cable is slightly thicker/higher gauge though. -- Raoul Snyman, B.Tech IT (Software Engineering) Saturn Laboratories m: 082 550 3754 e: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za w: www.saturnlaboratories.co.za b: blog.saturnlaboratories.co.za From gorkon at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 17:03:08 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 17:03:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: References: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> <4C34DCCB.2050500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: Try it without first. On Jul 7, 2010 4:40 PM, "Peter B. Steiger" wrote: Joe said: > > Oh and there's no guarantees that this would work either. > Theoretically, it should. ... Since the projector is hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the sanctuary, I'm not sure that's feasible. How can I tell whether the computer produces enough signal to drive the projector? Then David said: > > I ran it nearly 2,000' - successfully. > > The "trick"? Heavier gauge cable - for lower loss. >... So... are you saying I do need an amplifier, or not? This is the cable I'm thinking of getting: http://www.cablesnmor.com/v33033.aspx Claims to be "extra shielded" with "ferrite cores on each end for noise suppression". Is that good? Shalom, *PBS* _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 7 17:00:33 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:00:33 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Hardware question In-Reply-To: References: <4C34CF96.50207@thelinuxlink.net> <4C34DCCB.2050500@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C34EAF1.9010304@bibleseven.com> The ferrite cores are there to keep radiated signals from getting into your cables - using them as receiving antennas. They don't appear to specify the gauge of the wire that they use so you are forced to take them at their word that any signal into one end would survive intact at the other. One needs to know what signal level they tested at 100' and what is your signal level from your computer to know if it would work for you. > Joe said: > > Oh and there's no guarantees that this would work either. > Theoretically, it should. The problem becomes one of loss. Does the > computer produce enough signal to drive the projector? That is why I > think they said you'd need a distribution amp. Ie you'd need > something like: > > http://www.svideo.com/extvga145.html > > This would drive four monitors. You could connect it near the > projector to help keep things nice and stable. > > > Since the projector is hanging from the ceiling in the middle of the > sanctuary, I'm not sure that's feasible. How can I tell whether the > computer produces enough signal to drive the projector? > > Then David said: > > I ran it nearly 2,000' - successfully. > > The "trick"? Heavier gauge cable - for lower loss. > > Other than expense and another point of potential failure > (complication) > the distribution amp is a terrific solution as it will not only > deliver a > strong signal - but because it is initially strong it should > arrive with little > or no added noise from the trip. (Note: All amps will add some noise > but the better ones add so little you will either see nor hear it. > A weak > signal will "acquire" noise along the way.) > > > So... are you saying I do need an amplifier, or not? > This is the cable I'm thinking of getting: > http://www.cablesnmor.com/v33033.aspx > > Claims to be "extra shielded" with "ferrite cores on each end for > noise suppression". Is that good? > > Shalom, > */PBS/* -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From chris at adebenham.com Wed Jul 7 18:01:17 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 08:01:17 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> Message-ID: He he - to lighten things up a bit I think I want to interpret the word as 'effeminate' which I will then take to mean 'metro-sexual' so finally I can have some basis to get annoyed at metrosexuals ;-) I always knew there was something wrong with metrosexuals :-D On 8 July 2010 00:29, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > but keep reading.... > > Effeminacy > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > Effeminacy describes having traits that are more often associated with > traditional feminine behaviour, conduct, style and gender roles rather than > masculine behaviour, conduct, style and roles. > > It is a term frequently applied to womanly behavior, demeanor, style and > appearance displayed by a man, typically used implying criticism or ridicule > of this behaviour (as opposed to, for example, merely describing a man as > feminine, which is more neutral). The term effeminate is most often used by > people who subscribe to the conventional view that men should conform to > traditional masculine traits and behaviours. Generally, the description is > applied to individuals, but may be used to describe entire societies as an > inflammatory allegation. Although in the Western tradition, as described > below, effeminacy has often been considered a vice, indicative of other > negative character traits and often involving a pejorative insinuation of > homosexual tendencies,..... > > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > > On 7/7/2010 9:26 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 9:10 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > > Mike, > > Ok, you don't agree with the translation of 'effeminate' to 'homosexual' as > used by some modern translations, fair enough but what do you believe is > correct? > > > May be below explanation could help: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effeminacy > Over-refinement, fine clothes and other possessions, the company of > women, certain trades, and too much coitus with women were all deemed > effeminate traits in Roman society. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 18:19:25 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:19:25 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 01:13 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > >> > So? That doesn't even suggest that Adam wasn't created fully a man, as a man >> > is today. God created all things His way in His time, including Eve. >> > Including creating Satan to temp Eve? > What does Scripture say? ANY question for which God has determined there is an answer you need, is in Scripture. Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 7 18:28:40 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:28:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> Free will in Heaven ... and on Earth ... but not for much longer. Jesus is returning for Judgment Day! > > Including creating Satan to temp Eve? > > What does Scripture say? ANY question for which God has determined > there is an answer you need, is in Scripture. > > Fred -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 18:55:27 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:55:27 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] HERMAPHRODYTE ADAM THEORY IS BOTH BLASPHEMOUS AND HERESY. In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C3505DF.7080700@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 01:32 AM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > Just two of the MANY problems with the "hermaphrodite Adam" theory > (generally promoted by those who wish to condone with God condems) are: > > 1. Adam was formed in God's image, so according to your heresy, God is > hermaphrodite. THAT IS BLASPHEMY!!!! > > 2. The Bible says God took a rib from Adam, and from that rib He > FORMED Eve, same Hebrew word used for the formation of Adam from dust. > It never says God pulled Eve out of Adam. > > Paul clearly says a homosexual can REPENT and LEAVE THAT LIFESTYLE and > be SAVED (I Corinthians 6:9-11). The phrase used in King James is "... > abusers of themselves with mankind...", which Strong's (Greek #3777) > gives as clearly as "sodomite". > ALL correct......very good! > For what it is worth, my wife and I have seen several dozen men and > some 20 women delivered from this lifestyle, who are now walking with > God, and most are married and living orderly lives. > YES......MANY are healed from the terrible choice that they made to live that deviant sinful lifestyle. Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 18:59:47 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 18:59:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Lucifer In-Reply-To: <5C48E643948546C1ACDAD2459BF924D2@alc.sea.local> References: <5C48E643948546C1ACDAD2459BF924D2@alc.sea.local> Message-ID: <4C3506E3.1040909@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 02:17 AM, Eddy Martin wrote: > OK, I get it now. > You don't actually believe the Bible literally as it is written. > To you, the Bible is no more or less authoritative than any other book of > myth and fable. > We are therefore speaking about two different books, one the living > breathing word of God, the other a book of myths and stories. > > Never mind. > > (Proverbs 26 got me again...) > -Eddy > Yes.....it took me awhile as well. 'Should have caught on sooner as I've heard the same type nonsense from pagans and cults. Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 19:01:32 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:01:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C35074C.7050808@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 02:39 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 1:28 PM, Chris Debenham wrote: > >> So my understanding of what you are saying is that you do not believe >> in the bible as the spirit-breathed word of God? >> > Nope, we still believe bible is the Word of God. > IMPOSSIBLE!! Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 19:19:47 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:19:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 06:28 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Free will in Heaven ... and on Earth ... but not for much longer. > > Jesus is returning for Judgment Day! > >> > Including creating Satan to temp Eve? >> >> What does Scripture say? ANY question for which God has determined >> there is an answer you need, is in Scripture. >> >> Fred Yes......and it COULD be soon! Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 19:33:03 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 06:33:03 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35074C.7050808@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C35074C.7050808@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:01 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > IMPOSSIBLE!! Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. DK From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Jul 7 19:35:22 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:35:22 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> Message-ID: <1278545722.27790.15.camel@P-733-Lin> On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 09:10 -0500, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Mike, > > Ok, you don't agree with the translation of 'effeminate' to > 'homosexual' as used by some modern translations, fair enough but what > do you believe is correct? Effeminate is certainly not a common word > in our day and knowledge of an alternate translation would seem to be > helpful if not necessary. Surely Paul is not saying that being less > than a masculine man is sinful and in league with fornicators and > adulterers? That would seem strangely out of place in the following > Scripture, to me anyway. Since you disagree I am curious to hear you > thoughts. IIRC, Vines put it more along the lines of weak willed, or without resolve. The book shelf got repacked and my Vines isn't next to my Abbingdon Strong's Exhaustive Concordance anymore. :( (yeah we have books, but only about 800 now and that's a lot to wade through when others are stacking the bookshelves. :( ) > (1 Corinthians 6:9?11) Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not > inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor > idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves > with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, > nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some > of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified > in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God. > > I sited a couple of references below which I feel gives some > creditability (granted it's augmentative) to the NKJV, NASB, ESV & NET > translators for their use of the word 'homosexual'. > > *** Webster's Dictionary *** > 1ef?fem?i?nate \-n?t\ adjective > [Middle English, from Latin effeminatus, from past participle of > effeminare to make effeminate, from ex- + femina woman ? more at > FEMININE] 15th century > 1 : having feminine qualities untypical of a man : not manly in > appearance or manner > 2 : marked by an unbecoming delicacy or overrefinement > ?effeminate art? ?an effeminate civilization? > > > Merriam-Webster, I. (2003). Merriam-Webster's collegiate dictionary. > (Eleventh ed.). Springfield, Mass.: Merriam-Webster, Inc. > > > *** Enhanced Strong's Lexicon on G3120 (Greek word used for > effeminate) *** > 3120 ??????? [malakos /mal?ak?os/] adj. Of uncertain affinity; GK > 3434; Four occurrences; AV translates as ?soft? three times, and > ?effeminate? once. 1 soft, soft to the touch. 2 metaph. in a bad > sense. 2A effeminate. 2A1 of a catamite. 2A2 of a boy kept for > homosexual relations with a man. 2A3 of a male who submits his body to > unnatural lewdness. 2A4 of a male prostitute. Vines did make the soft argument IIRC. BTW there is a logical disconnect on 2A1 and 2A2 with soft there. Nothing precludes a younger male (catamite) from being a tough going rough and tumble type. > Strong, J. (1996). The exhaustive concordance of the Bible : Showing > every word of the text of the common English version of the canonical > books, and every occurrence of each word in regular order. (electronic > ed.). Ontario: Woodside Bible Fellowship. > > *** Dictionary of Biblical Languages *** > 3434 ??????? (malakos), ? (?), ?? (on): adj.; ? Str 3120?1. LN 79.100 > soft, fine, clothing delicate to the touch (Mt 11:8; Lk 7:25+); 2. LN > 88.281 homosexual, passive partner in male-to-male sex act.: male > prostitute (NIV), effeminate (NASB, ASV, KJV), homosexual(NKJV), > (homo)sexual pervert (RSV, REB, NEB conflated translation), self > indulgent (NJB!), boy prostitute, i.e., a catamite (NAB see ftnt), > (1Co 6:9+) > > Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic > Domains : Greek (New Testament) (electronic ed.). Oak Harbor: Logos > Research Systems, Inc. Interesting, Vines didn't IIRC waste time on the homosexual element of the word. And going wildly off topic, anyone got the Vines module up and running in an E-Bible? From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Wed Jul 7 19:37:06 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 19:37:06 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <1278497423.22149.13.camel@P-733-Lin> <4C348AE5.1010403@staggs.net> <4C348F64.80100@staggs.net> Message-ID: <1278545826.27790.17.camel@P-733-Lin> On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 09:29 -0500, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > but keep reading.... > > > Effeminacy > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Like the Congressional Record, Wikipedia is interesting reading but not an authority to be cited in an argument. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 20:00:59 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 07:00:59 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> Message-ID: Brothers, My church does not approve gay/lesbian, neither do I. But I start from this verse: Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. In my opinion, all lust are prone to sin, including heterosexual. So, it does not really matter if somebody is gay/lesbian by nature. What important is how they conduct their lives. For us, may be we look at their behavior as disgusting. On the other hand, gay/lesbian see the heterosexual behavior as disgusting. The final destination is not even to be heterosexual, but non sexual. So, it does not really matter whether you are heterosexual of homosexual as in heaven, there is no such thing as sex. By condemning certain people, we also condemn ourselves as we still have many other "natural" desire, that we always given up to them. May be we always give up to our desire to eat or to sleep, and forget the job God given us that we have to do for other people. Finally, are gay/lesbian sinful? Yes, but so do we. So, finally, please consider this verse: Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. DK On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:19 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 07/07/2010 06:28 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > > Free?will?in?Heaven?...?and?on?Earth?...?but?not?for?much?longer. > > Jesus?is?returning?for?Judgment?Day! > >>?Including?creating?Satan?to?temp?Eve? > > ?What?does?Scripture?say??ANY?question?for?which?God?has?determined > ?there?is?an?answer?you?need,?is?in?Scripture. > > ?Fred > > Yes......and it COULD be soon! > > Fred > > -- > Beware every time you hear liberals say ?crisis.? What > they?re really saying is ?taxes? ? as in ?let me raise > your taxes; it will be good for you.? > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 7 21:08:53 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 21:08:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <1278498094.22149.16.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F141.7020901@bibleseven.com> <4C33FB11.9000401@lightlink.com> <1278498094.22149.16.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <4C352525.50007@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 06:21 AM, Mike McMullin wrote: > On Tue, 2010-07-06 at 23:57 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: > >> > On 07/06/2010 11:15 PM,pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: >> > >> > [snip] >> > >> >>> > > >>> > > Meanwhile there is an opportunity out there for a creative >>> > > homosexual >>> > > to write books and to build a new organization - rather than folks >>> > > trying >>> > > to co-opt Biblical Christianity. >>> >> > >> > David, to see what's been done to twist and malign Scripture, see: >> > http://www.chbookshop.co.uk/product.asp?id=2392976 >> > Hard to believe that it is a serious book: "Contributors draw on > feminist, queer, deconstructionist, utopian theories, the social > sciences and historical-critical discourse.", reads more like a wish > list of misinformed dogmatists. > You're being way too kind, Mike! ;) Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htgage3 at chartermi.net Wed Jul 7 22:07:50 2010 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:07:50 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <20100707220750.G2LBW.8595104.root@mp16> Personally, I think that is sooner than we think!! Why? Look around and see, look at things on the internet, check out "loose change" "Interview with Aron Russo" and go from there, oh, these should be Googled. Taz ---- "Fred A. Miller" wrote: > On 07/07/2010 06:28 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > > Free will in Heaven ... and on Earth ... but not for much longer. > > > > Jesus is returning for Judgment Day! > > > >> > Including creating Satan to temp Eve? > >> > >> What does Scripture say? ANY question for which God has determined > >> there is an answer you need, is in Scripture. > >> > >> Fred > > Yes......and it COULD be soon! > > Fred > > -- > Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What > they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise > your taxes; it will be good for you." > From htgage3 at chartermi.net Wed Jul 7 22:10:27 2010 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:10:27 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <1278545826.27790.17.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <20100707221027.9ICQC.8595244.root@mp16> Thank you!! That goes for more than just this alone! Taz ---- Mike McMullin wrote: > On Wed, 2010-07-07 at 09:29 -0500, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > but keep reading.... > > > > > > Effeminacy > > From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia > > Like the Congressional Record, Wikipedia is interesting reading but > not an authority to be cited in an argument. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From htgage3 at chartermi.net Wed Jul 7 22:14:01 2010 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 19:14:01 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> David, then why did God destroy Gommorah and Sodom? BTW, do you see the same line of "Sodom" and "sodomy"? They are both from the same root word! God Himself has condemned sodomites! No me, not anyone else on this list, but God has. Taz ---- David Kuntadi wrote: > Brothers, > My church does not approve gay/lesbian, neither do I. But I start from > this verse: > > Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. > > In my opinion, all lust are prone to sin, including heterosexual. So, > it does not really matter if somebody is gay/lesbian by nature. What > important is how they conduct their lives. For us, may be we look at > their behavior as disgusting. On the other hand, gay/lesbian see the > heterosexual behavior as disgusting. > > The final destination is not even to be heterosexual, but non sexual. > So, it does not really matter whether you are heterosexual of > homosexual as in heaven, there is no such thing as sex. > > By condemning certain people, we also condemn ourselves as we still > have many other "natural" desire, that we always given up to them. May > be we always give up to our desire to eat or to sleep, and forget the > job God given us that we have to do for other people. Finally, are > gay/lesbian sinful? Yes, but so do we. So, finally, please consider > this verse: > > Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and > said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a > stone at her. > > DK > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:19 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > On 07/07/2010 06:28 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > > > > Free?will?in?Heaven?...?and?on?Earth?...?but?not?for?much?longer. > > > > Jesus?is?returning?for?Judgment?Day! > > > >>?Including?creating?Satan?to?temp?Eve? > > > > ?What?does?Scripture?say??ANY?question?for?which?God?has?determined > > ?there?is?an?answer?you?need,?is?in?Scripture. > > > > ?Fred > > > > Yes......and it COULD be soon! > > > > Fred > > > > -- > > Beware every time you hear liberals say ?crisis.? What > > they?re really saying is ?taxes? ? as in ?let me raise > > your taxes; it will be good for you.? > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux4christians mailing list > > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 22:23:19 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:23:19 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:14 AM, wrote: > David, then why did God destroy Gommorah and Sodom? BTW, do you see the same line of "Sodom" and "sodomy"? They are > both from the same root word! God Himself has condemned sodomites! No me, not anyone else on this list, but God has. Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the people from every quarter: Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them. Do you think God will not punish them if all those men came to rape a girl instead of a man? Think again. DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 22:34:12 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:34:12 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:23 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:14 AM, ? wrote: >> David, then why did God destroy Gommorah and Sodom? BTW, do you see the same line of "Sodom" and "sodomy"? They are >> both from the same root word! God Himself has condemned sodomites! No me, not anyone else on this list, but God has. > > Gen 19:4 ?But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men > of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the > people from every quarter: > Gen 19:5 ?And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the > men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we > may know them. > > Do you think God will not punish them if all those men came to rape a > girl instead of a man? Think again. Ah, I forgot to mention another case: Jdg 19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him. The men form the whole city of Gibea in Israel wanted to rape a man as well. What do you think? DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 7 22:36:36 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 22:36:36 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> So bad choices, or in some cases the apparent surrender to pure evil, has existed for a very very long time. A sexual attack on anyone is evil, an entire male community so consumed with the obsession to sexually attack two male strangers is obviously an evidence of their surrender to evil. >> Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men >> of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the >> people from every quarter: >> Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the >> men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we >> may know them. >> >> Do you think God will not punish them if all those men came to rape a >> girl instead of a man? Think again. >> > > Ah, I forgot to mention another case: > > Jdg 19:22 Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men > of the city, certain sons of Belial, beset the house round about, and > beat at the door, and spake to the master of the house, the old man, > saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may > know him. > > The men form the whole city of Gibea in Israel wanted to rape a man as > well. What do you think? -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 22:50:51 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 09:50:51 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:36 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > So bad choices, or in some cases the apparent surrender to pure evil, has > existed for a very very long time. > > A sexual attack on anyone is evil, an entire male community so consumed > with the obsession to sexually attack two male strangers is obviously an > evidence of their surrender to evil. If the men from the whole city want to sexually attack two female strangers instead of male, is this behavior more acceptable or less sinfull? DK From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:37:23 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:37:23 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] HERMAPHRODYTE ADAM THEORY IS BOTH BLASPHEMOUS AND HERESY. In-Reply-To: <4C3505DF.7080700@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C3505DF.7080700@lightlink.com> Message-ID: >>YES......MANY are healed from the terrible choice that they made to live that deviant sinful lifestyle. Brother Fred: In a sense, yes, certainly the gay lifestyle is a wrong choice. But I would say 95% of them also suffered abuse from a pervert when they were young, which made them vulnerable toward that wrong choice. So part of the total restoration process is forgiving their abusers. ====================================================== 2 Peter 3:10, 11 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in all holy conduct and godliness, Looking for and hastening unto the coming of the day of God, in which the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5260 (20100707) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From proyectopuente at hotmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:24:34 2010 From: proyectopuente at hotmail.com (Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C.) Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 22:24:34 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: Wow, David. That is SOOOO old! The "Judge not" verse is ALWAYS quoted out of context by people who are living openly in sin and refuse to repent. A text out of context is a pretext. How about 1 Corinthians 2:15 -- "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." And in I Corinthians 5, Paul explicitly REBUKES the Corinthian believers for NOT judging the fornicator among them! So Paul is wrong and you are right? And of course, you seem totally consumed with the need to defend what God specifically condemns. So David, I have but one OBVIOUS question for you: How long have YOU been living the gay lifestyle? Dr. Steve __________ Informaci?n de ESET Smart Security, versi?n de la base de firmas de virus 5260 (20100707) __________ ESET Smart Security ha comprobado este mensaje. http://www.eset.com From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Wed Jul 7 23:51:37 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 10:51:37 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > Wow, David. ?That is SOOOO old! ?The "Judge not" verse is ALWAYS quoted out > of context by people who are living openly in sin and refuse to repent. ?A > text out of context is a pretext. > > How about 1 Corinthians 2:15 -- "But he that is spiritual judgeth all > things, yet he himself is judged of no man." ?And in I Corinthians 5, Paul > explicitly REBUKES the Corinthian believers for NOT judging the fornicator > among them! ?So Paul is wrong and you are right? > > And of course, you seem totally consumed with the need to defend what God > specifically condemns. ?So David, I have but one OBVIOUS question for you: > How long have YOU been living the gay lifestyle? Wow, that is not a discussion but personal attack. Anyway, I will answer your question: I do not when I will start and whether or not will start in this life time. I have no desire to start yet anyway as I am straight. As for Paul, he could present in spirit, which indicate his achievement in Spiritual World. 1Co 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, I know some people have this ability even this day. By the way, what is fornication? Is it Gay? It is not according to Strong: ???????? porneia por-ni'-ah >From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively idolatry: - fornication. DK From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 00:16:02 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:16:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C35074C.7050808@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C355102.4080802@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 07:33 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 6:01 AM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > >> > >> > IMPOSSIBLE!! >> > Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is > impossible; but with God all things are possible. > NOT what you referred to! Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 00:56:48 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 00:56:48 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <20100707220750.G2LBW.8595104.root@mp16> References: <20100707220750.G2LBW.8595104.root@mp16> Message-ID: <4C355A90.1080204@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 10:07 PM, htgage3 at chartermi.net wrote: > Personally, I think that is sooner than we think!! Why? Look around and see, look at things on the internet, check out "loose change" "Interview with Aron Russo" and go from there, oh, these should be Googled. > There are a few things to be considered. One, there's ample evidence that the anti-Christ will be/is a Muslim, and that's what we have in the Oval Office. I'm not saying "O" is him, but can anyone really rule him out? 'Interesting consideration anyway. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 01:02:12 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:02:12 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 10:50 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:36 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> > So bad choices, or in some cases the apparent surrender to pure evil, has >> > existed for a very very long time. >> > >> > A sexual attack on anyone is evil, an entire male community so consumed >> > with the obsession to sexually attack two male strangers is obviously an >> > evidence of their surrender to evil. >> > If the men from the whole city want to sexually attack two female > strangers instead of male, is this behavior more acceptable or less > sinfull? > Sin is still sin, no matter what. But, you already knew that, and it DOESN'T have any bearing on what God did NOR why he did it. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 01:04:49 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:04:49 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 11:24 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > Wow, David. That is SOOOO old! The "Judge not" verse is ALWAYS > quoted out of context by people who are living openly in sin and > refuse to repent. A text out of context is a pretext. > > How about 1 Corinthians 2:15 -- "But he that is spiritual judgeth all > things, yet he himself is judged of no man." And in I Corinthians 5, > Paul explicitly REBUKES the Corinthian believers for NOT judging the > fornicator among them! So Paul is wrong and you are right? > > And of course, you seem totally consumed with the need to defend what > God specifically condemns. So David, I have but one OBVIOUS question > for you: How long have YOU been living the gay lifestyle? You beat me to it!! ;) He's twisted Scripture enough here that I arrived at the same conclusion. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 01:20:10 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:20:10 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 07/07/2010 11:24 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > Wow, David.? That is SOOOO old!? The "Judge not" verse is ALWAYS quoted out > of context by people who are living openly in sin and refuse to repent.? A > text?out?of?context?is?a?pretext. > > How about 1 Corinthians 2:15 -- "But he that is spiritual judgeth all > things, yet he himself is judged of no man."? And in I Corinthians 5, Paul > explicitly REBUKES the Corinthian believers for NOT judging the fornicator > among?them!??So?Paul?is?wrong?and?you?are?right? > > And of course, you seem totally consumed with the need to defend what God > specifically condemns.? So David, I have but one OBVIOUS question for you: > How?long?have?YOU?been?living?the?gay?lifestyle? > > You beat me to it!! ;) He's twisted Scripture enough here that I arrived at > the same conclusion. So, in this case, both of you think it is impossible for God? To create a church that believe the bible is the word of God an at the same time believe that it also contain myth? DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 01:23:26 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 12:23:26 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Sin is still sin, no matter what. But, you already knew that, and it DOESN'T > have any > bearing on what God did NOR why he did it. So, what is the ground to say that God punish Sodom and Gomora due to homosexual behavior then? Remember Gibea as well. DK From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 01:29:04 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 01:29:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] HERMAPHRODYTE ADAM THEORY IS BOTH BLASPHEMOUS AND HERESY. In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C3505DF.7080700@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C356220.2010208@lightlink.com> On 07/07/2010 11:37 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > >>YES......MANY are healed from the terrible choice that they made to > live that deviant sinful lifestyle. > > Brother Fred: In a sense, yes, certainly the gay lifestyle is a wrong > choice. But I would say 95% of them also suffered abuse from a > pervert when they were young, which made them vulnerable toward that > wrong choice. So part of the total restoration process is forgiving > their abusers. >From what I know, I'd agree with that. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 02:21:41 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 02:21:41 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> On 07/08/2010 01:23 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > >> > Sin is still sin, no matter what. But, you already knew that, and it DOESN'T >> > have any >> > bearing on what God did NOR why he did it. >> > So, what is the ground to say that God punish Sodom and Gomora due to > homosexual behavior then? Remember Gibea as well. > It was a good part of it, yes, but there were other factors as well. But, you already knew that. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 03:37:42 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:37:42 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:21 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > On 07/08/2010 01:23 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:02 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: >> >>> > Sin is still sin, no matter what. But, you already knew that, and it DOESN'T >>> > have any >>> > bearing on what God did NOR why he did it. >>> >> So, what is the ground to say that God punish Sodom and Gomora due to >> homosexual behavior then? Remember Gibea as well. >> > > It was a good part of it, yes, but there were other factors as well. > But, you already knew that. But how do you know it is a good part of it? May be just a very small part of it? Please see below verse: Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know. If the homosexual is between two person only and they do it voluntarily, would that be a cry? Sodom and Gomora were punished because of the cry. Or, was it the cry from heterosexual people to homosexual people? Please let me know your interpretation. DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 09:42:10 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:42:10 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> The "cry of it" is the rebellion against the order of things as ordained by a perfect and holy Lord God. The same as any "sin". There is no such thing as a "victimless crime", that is a logical absurdity (my bachelor's degree studies were in criminal justice). The crime is against one-another and against a holy Lord God. If one does not have "Lord God" (not merely "God"), and "holy", and "perfect", and "His Word" all rightly understood and applied to everything then these discussions are meaningless because the necessary authority and context have no reliable point of reference. Can you define the way that you understand these terms, please? > But how do you know it is a good part of it? May be just a very small > part of it? Please see below verse: > > Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done > altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if > not, I will know. > > If the homosexual is between two person only and they do it > voluntarily, would that be a cry? Sodom and Gomora were punished > because of the cry. Or, was it the cry from heterosexual people to > homosexual people? > > Please let me know your interpretation. > > DK > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 09:44:15 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:44:15 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35D62F.3000907@bibleseven.com> Nothing is impossible for God - except to violate His own nature. The Lord God is the God of truth. Why would He build a church on the sinking-sand of unreliable myth? > So, in this case, both of you think it is impossible for God? To > create a church that believe the bible is the word of God an at the > same time believe that it also contain myth? > > DK > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 09:46:15 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 09:46:15 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C355102.4080802@lightlink.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C35074C.7050808@lightlink.com> <4C355102.4080802@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35D6A7.30005@bibleseven.com> All things are possible that work together for good - as defined by a holy Lord God, not the mere lusts of fallen human flesh. >>> > IMPOSSIBLE!! >>> >> Mat 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is >> impossible; but with God all things are possible. >> -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 10:00:52 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:00:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: <4C35DA14.5020906@bibleseven.com> Fornication, like gluttonous-eating, the taking of a life for selfish purposes (murder), and worship of a false god all have a context. There is heterosexual fornication - forbidden by the holy Lord God because it is harmful. There is homosexual fornication - forbidden by the holy Lord God because it is harmful. Fornication is the misuse of sexuality. Homosexuality, in the context of Biblical Christianity - and most if not all world religions - is considered that. One cannot choose a homosexual lifestyle and then try to manufacture an endorsement of it from the holy Lord God of the Christian Bible. That is fraud. The text of the Bible simply does not allow it and no amount of tortured Clintonesque/Obamanese parsing of words can get one there any more than trying to justify theft, murder, idolatry, or other crimes against the Lord God and fellow man. If one chooses to live a homosexual lifestyle they must do it outside of the blessing of the holy Lord God. Period. It does not mean that the Lord God does not love that person and does not want to lead them to saving faith and the surrender of *all* of their rebellious choices (not just homosexuality) -- but it does mean that one must repent of the idolatry of homosexuality *before* one may surrender to the Lordship of Christ. Yes, one may still be in the homosexual lifestyle, or have a substance abuse problem, or an anger/rage problem, etc. and submit to the Lordship of Christ -- but one must surrender *everything* to Him and not in their heart say "You may be Lord of my finances but not my sexuality." "God is not mocked", he knows the heart, and as Ananias & Sapphira discovered the hard way He does not have a sense of humor about being lied to. There are no blessings in disobedience. > By the way, what is fornication? Is it Gay? It is not according to Strong: > > ???????? > porneia > por-ni'-ah > From G4203; harlotry (including adultery and incest); figuratively > idolatry: - fornication. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 10:05:10 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:05:10 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] [OT] HERMAPHRODYTE ADAM THEORY IS BOTH BLASPHEMOUS AND HERESY. In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C3505DF.7080700@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35DB16.4030303@bibleseven.com> Many, if not all, people are "abused" in some way during their childhood. All parents are imperfect and the social system within which they grow is imperfect. The magnitude of the "abuse" varies, as does the impact - the latter is the result of multiple variables. However, we do not excuse the abuser or the murderer or the rapist or the thief who "learned" that anti-social behavior as a child - why do we make of homosexuality an "idol" whose cause is an excuse instead of whose practice is something from which to seek freedom? > Brother Fred: In a sense, yes, certainly the gay lifestyle is a wrong > choice. But I would say 95% of them also suffered abuse from a > pervert when they were young, which made them vulnerable toward that > wrong choice. So part of the total restoration process is forgiving > their abusers. > Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 10:07:45 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:07:45 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C35DBB1.8060608@bibleseven.com> I used the word "anyone" intentionally. Your context was the homosexual mob so I went with that. There is another case where they attacked women - it was equally heinous - and equally the result of submitting to demonic influence. When we choose to sin we choose to partner with Satan in rebellion against the Lord God. It is always so. > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:36 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> So bad choices, or in some cases the apparent surrender to pure evil, has >> existed for a very very long time. >> >> A sexual attack on anyone is evil, an entire male community so consumed >> with the obsession to sexually attack two male strangers is obviously an >> evidence of their surrender to evil. >> > If the men from the whole city want to sexually attack two female > strangers instead of male, is this behavior more acceptable or less > sinfull? > > DK > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 10:18:29 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:18:29 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35DE35.9090707@bibleseven.com> Judgment vs Discernment We are commanded to discern sin and to walk with our brothers and our sisters to freedom from that sin. There are two uses of the English term "judgment" in most Bible translations; one refers to the Lord God's sovereign judgment as it applies to salvation, the other refers to the application of discernment. They must be kept carefully separate - attempting to justify a license to rebel against the Lord God without restraint based on the misuse of one of two references to "judgment" is irresponsible and poor scholarship. We are incapable of making a "judgment" of another's eternal condition - that is a sovereign act of the Lord God. We are commanded to "judge" (discern) the sin-condition of fellow men, to warn them of the consequences, and to serve them as we walk in love with them to freedom from that sin - empowered by the Holy Spirit of our Lord God. We must do so humbly since every one of us also has sin which requires work to expunge from our lives - and will fight that battle with the "old man" (the flesh) until we are made-new by our Lord God at threshold of Heaven. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 11:05:35 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:05:35 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:42 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Can you define the way that you understand these terms, please? Which terms? By the way, the discussion is already far from original topic of homosexual. May I try to put it back to the original track. As a straight, actually I myself have difficulty in understanding homosexual behavior. And I could not understand why a normal people would choose to live as homosexual. But one remark from my sister, which is a general practitioner, spark more interest in me on this subject: "According to my (my sister's) observation, the gay/lesbian has different physical structure." So, it might not just a choice, but may a mixture of many factors. Certain study show there MIGHT BE biological factor: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002340883_gayscience19m.html http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/gay.fingers/ Even some was really born not as male, nor female: http://www.angelfire.com/ca2/BornHermaphrodite/ http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2000-02/951254825.Dv.r.html http://www.healthyplace.com/gender/inside-intersexuality/about-me/menu-id-1428/ So, it is too risky to judge (discern?) people based on ancient text (bible), which I have shown in this few days as having multiple interpretation, and lead someone to the direction that might not correct. If homosexual behavior could be changed to heterosexual behavior, then the reverse should also be true. So, imagine if you are force to change your heterosexual orientation to homosexual orientation by some "corrective treatment". That would be unacceptable for you right? Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 11:12:56 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:12:56 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C35EAF8.40001@bibleseven.com> > David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:42 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> Can you define the way that you understand these terms, please? >> > Which terms? > > "Lord God" (not merely "God") "holy" "perfect" "His Word" BTW: It is irrelevant if one makes the (generally false) claim that homosexuals are physiologically different. If I have a physiological difference that makes me want to boil you in olive oil and serve you to my chickens is the Lord God supposed to be said to endorse that as well? And the silly notion that the Bible is "old" somehow makes if less relevant and in need of change is directly denied in the text "There is nothing new under the sun." How may things are new? None. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 11:19:39 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:19:39 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> Message-ID: <4C35EC8B.9030406@staggs.net> The reason God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah is: (Jude 1:5--7) I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not. And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them, in like manner *giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh*, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. On 7/7/2010 9:23 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 9:14 AM, wrote: > >> David, then why did God destroy Gommorah and Sodom? BTW, do you see the same line of "Sodom" and "sodomy"? They are >> both from the same root word! God Himself has condemned sodomites! No me, not anyone else on this list, but God has. >> > Gen 19:4 But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men > of Sodom, compassed the house round, both old and young, all the > people from every quarter: > Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the > men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we > may know them. > > Do you think God will not punish them if all those men came to rape a > girl instead of a man? Think again. > > Another wrong yes, but in no wise justifies the sins of Sodom & Gomorrah. > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- bstaggs <>< -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 11:23:47 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:23:47 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> Add me to the list of those that disbelieve it is possible to call God a liar and Lord at the same time. Which is in my opinion what you are unknowing doing when you claim parts of the Bible are myths. (2 Timothy 3:16--17) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/8/2010 12:20 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > > So, in this case, both of you think it is impossible for God? To > create a church that believe the bible is the word of God an at the > same time believe that it also contain myth? > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 11:14:42 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:14:42 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> On 7/7/2010 7:00 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Brothers, > My church does not approve gay/lesbian, neither do I. But I start from > this verse: > > Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. > > Agreed, but let's keep that in context, which I believe is in the sense of 'judging' someone's motives (filling in the blanks so to speak) or looking upon them with a condescending heart, but never as an excuse to justify sin. However in this 'everything goes' attitude of today people have tried to twist this out of context to justify any and all acts of sin. The same Lord that said "judge not" also said: (John 7:24) Judge not according to the appearance, but *judge righteous judgment*. He also was not afraid to call (some might even say judge) sin wrong either: (Matthew 21:12?13) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves. Nor was John the Baptist (The Greatest Prophet born of women) (Matthew 3:7?8) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: Nor was Paul: (1 Corinthians 5:1?5) It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father?s wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit,* have judged already*, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. > In my opinion, all lust are prone to sin, including heterosexual. So, > it does not really matter if somebody is gay/lesbian by nature. What > important is how they conduct their lives. For us, may be we look at > their behavior as disgusting. On the other hand, gay/lesbian see the > heterosexual behavior as disgusting. > > Does it really matter? David, I am having a hard time believing that a professing Christina would even ask such a question. Are we going to simply pick and choice what we like in God's Word and disregard the rest? It's one thing to debate what the Word says, but it's quite another to disregard it because it is inconvenient or makes us unpopular with the World. Where does this stop? What's next child molesters, murderers? If that is what you are saying, then sadly we have no common ground between us. > The final destination is not even to be heterosexual, but non sexual. > So, it does not really matter whether you are heterosexual of > homosexual as in heaven, there is no such thing as sex. > > By condemning certain people, we also condemn ourselves as we still > have many other "natural" desire, that we always given up to them. May > be we always give up to our desire to eat or to sleep, and forget the > job God given us that we have to do for other people. Finally, are > gay/lesbian sinful? Yes, but so do we. So, finally, please consider > this verse: > > Since I am unable to get past Paul's warning to not be deceived and know that those continuing in such sin will not make it to Heaven, then ignoring this is not an option I would entertain. Are you also saying that since it is as you say a 'natural desire' that it should be condoned? The same could be claimed of basically any sin, the thief could claim I can't help myself, the adulterer that he was born with his desire, etc. But that is not what God's Word teaches. (Ephesians 4:25?32) Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. *Let him that stole steal no more*: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ?s sake hath forgiven you. > Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and > said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a > stone at her. > > DK > Yes, but keep reading.... (John 8:7?11) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: *go, and sin no more*. He did not (as it appears to me you are suggesting) simply forgive her sins and allow her to continue in them, but rather He instructed her to "go, and sin no more". That my friend is something I feel is missing in from your view. Jesus is willing and able to set the sinner free (I know He did me), but by condoning it and allowing sin to be pasted off as 'natural desire', we are condemning our fellow man to utter damnation. (John 8:31?36) ^ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, /then/ are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. They answered him, We be Abraham?s seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: /but/ the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. Perhaps as followers of Christ we should worry less about who is offended by God's Word, stop trying to be friends with the world and stand on God's Word as though we actually still believed It. Then we might actually began to see some captives set free rather than just making them comfortable on their road to destruction. (James 4:1?6) From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members? Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not. Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the *friendship of the world is enmity with God*? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy? But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. (John 15:18?25 ) If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you. If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also. But all these things will they do unto you for my name?s sake, because they know not him that sent me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth me hateth my Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. (Luke 6:26) Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets. -- bstaggs <>< -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 11:37:23 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:37:23 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Add me to the list of those that disbelieve it is possible to call God a > liar and Lord at the same time.? Which is in my opinion what you are > unknowing doing when you claim parts of the Bible are myths. > > (2 Timothy 3:16?17)? All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is > profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in > righteousness:? That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto > all good works. That is circular reference. All scriptures could not include 2 Timothy for example. And possibly also not the old testaments as at that time it is not yet canonized (correct me if I am wrong). I have always wonder which writing does Paul refer to when he is writing this sentence. DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 11:44:35 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 10:44:35 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C35F263.1000304@staggs.net> David, in my opinion it comes down to who are you doing to believe, God or the so called wisdom of men; God who says he is able to set the captive free, or man calming that there is no hope for the condition of sin. (Proverbs 3:5--7) Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; And lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, And he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: Fear the Lord, and depart from evil. (Proverbs 16:25) There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, But the end thereof are the ways of death. (1 Corinthians 1:20--25) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/8/2010 10:05 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: {snip} > By the way, the discussion is already far from original topic of > homosexual. May I try to put it back to the original track. > As a straight, actually I myself have difficulty in understanding > homosexual behavior. And I could not understand why a normal people > would choose to live as homosexual. But one remark from my sister, > which is a general practitioner, spark more interest in me on this > subject: > > "According to my (my sister's) observation, the gay/lesbian has > different physical structure." > > So, it might not just a choice, but may a mixture of many factors. > Certain study show there MIGHT BE biological factor: > > {snip} -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 11:50:19 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:50:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C35F3BB.7080004@bibleseven.com> It goes back to the earliest moments in the relationship between man and God, in the Garden of Eden, and nothing about that relationship has changed. Satan tempted Eve to reduce her relationship from Lord God down to God, meaning that she was essentially a peer, with the right to decide and to negotiate but with no obligation to submit. Satan then tempted Eve to act on her newfound "freedom" in direct rebellion to the concise boundaries set by the Lord God for her best interest. She did so and then dragged Adam along with her - and the rest, as they say, is history. Your angst here is the same as Eve's. Trust God or believe Satan. There is no middle ground. None. > That is circular reference. All scriptures could not include 2 Timothy > for example. And possibly also not the old testaments as at that time > it is not yet canonized (correct me if I am wrong). I have always > wonder which writing does Paul refer to when he is writing this > sentence. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 11:57:28 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 22:57:28 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:14 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > He also was not afraid to call (some might even say judge) sin wrong either: > > (Matthew 21:12?13) And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all > them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the > moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It > is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made > it a den of thieves. > > Nor was John the Baptist (The Greatest Prophet born of women) > > (Matthew 3:7?8) But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to > his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you > to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruits meet for > repentance: > > Nor was Paul: > > (1 Corinthians 5:1?5) It is reported commonly that there is fornication > among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the > Gentiles, that one should have his father?s wife. And ye are puffed up, and > have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken > away from among you. For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, > have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so > done this deed, In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered > together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, To deliver > such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may > be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. If you have the quality of Jesus, John the babtis, or Paul, sure you could judge. But I don't. > Does it really matter?? David, I am having a hard time believing that a > professing Christina would even ask such a question. Are we going to simply > pick and choice what we like in God's Word and disregard the rest?? It's one > thing to debate what the Word says, but it's quite another to disregard it > because it is inconvenient or makes us unpopular with the World. Where does > this stop? What's next child molesters, murderers? If that is what you are > saying, then sadly we have no common ground between us. Then you don't understand what I wrote, or I did not write it clearly: "What important is how they conduct their lives." What I mean is: If they entertain their lust, offcourse it is a problem regardless of their sexual orientation. On the other extreme, monk or nun would not have problem with their sexual orientation, as it is not even entertain in their mind and sure there is no physical act. > Since I am unable to get past Paul's warning to not be deceived and know > that those continuing in such sin will not make it to Heaven, then ignoring > this is not an option I would entertain.? Are you also saying that since it > is as you say a 'natural desire' that it should be condoned??? The same > could be claimed of basically any sin, the thief could claim I can't help > myself, the adulterer that he was born with his desire, etc.? But that is > not what God's Word teaches. On the contrary, we should stop entertaining whatever desire, whether it is considered natural, or unnatural. > Yes, but keep reading.... > > (John 8:7?11) So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and > said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone > at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which > heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, > beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and > the woman standing in the midst.? When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw > none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? > hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, > Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. > > He did not (as it appears to me you are suggesting) simply forgive her sins > and allow her to continue in them, but rather He instructed her to "go, and > sin no more".? That my friend is something I feel is missing in from your > view. Nope. We should restraint from whatever desire, whether it is homosexual or heterosexual. > Jesus is willing and able to set the sinner free (I know He did me), but by > condoning it and allowing sin to be pasted off as 'natural desire', we are > condemning our fellow man to utter damnation. We have to subdue our natural desire. DK From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 12:01:04 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:01:04 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C35F640.1080407@staggs.net> David, Now I think we are getting to the real nature of our disagreement.... Exactly what do you believe is God's Word and what is not? Not canonized yet? For me it was valid as soon as Paul, moved by the Holy Spirit, penned it. Period! Peter seem to believe that his comments/letters carried some weight: (2 Peter 3:1?3) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That ye may *be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour*: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And this was written before any official canonization I believe also. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/8/2010 10:37 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:23 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> Add me to the list of those that disbelieve it is possible to call God a >> liar and Lord at the same time. Which is in my opinion what you are >> unknowing doing when you claim parts of the Bible are myths. >> >> (2 Timothy 3:16?17) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is >> profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in >> righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto >> all good works. >> > That is circular reference. All scriptures could not include 2 Timothy > for example. And possibly also not the old testaments as at that time > it is not yet canonized (correct me if I am wrong). I have always > wonder which writing does Paul refer to when he is writing this > sentence. > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 12:01:12 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:01:12 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35F3BB.7080004@bibleseven.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> <4C35F3BB.7080004@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: You did not even answer my argument and question: 1. That is circular reference 2. Which writing Paul is referring to? DK On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:50 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > It goes back to the earliest moments in the relationship between man and > God, > in the Garden of Eden, and nothing about that relationship has changed. > > Satan tempted Eve to reduce her relationship from Lord God down to God, > meaning that she was essentially a peer, with the right to decide and to > negotiate but with no obligation to submit. > > Satan then tempted Eve to act on her newfound "freedom" in direct > rebellion to the concise boundaries set by the Lord God for her best > interest. > > She did so and then dragged Adam along with her - and the rest, as they > say, is history. > > Your angst here is the same as Eve's. ?Trust God or believe Satan. ?There > is no middle ground. ?None. > >> That is circular reference. All scriptures could not include 2 Timothy >> for example. And possibly also not the old testaments as at that time >> it is not yet canonized (correct me if I am wrong). I have always >> wonder which writing does Paul refer to when he is writing this >> sentence. >> >> DK >> _______________________________________________ >> Linux4christians mailing list >> Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net >> http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians >> >> > > > -- > > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! ?Pastor David > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 12:04:25 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 23:04:25 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35EAF8.40001@bibleseven.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> <4C35EAF8.40001@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:12 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > "Lord God" (not merely "God") Not sure what is the different between Lord God and God > "holy" Only for specific purpose, particularly related to God > "perfect" Exactly as it is supposed to be > "His Word" God's revelation to individual, not just mere written words. > BTW: ?It is irrelevant if one makes the (generally false) claim that > homosexuals are physiologically different. ?If I have a physiological > difference that makes me want to boil you in olive oil and serve you > to my chickens is the Lord God supposed to be said to endorse that > as well? Sound like what Abram want to do to his son. > And the silly notion that the Bible is "old" somehow makes if less > relevant and in need of change is directly denied in the text "There > is nothing new under the sun." ?How may things are new? ?None. Wrong. Jesus has revised many of the old testament e.g.: 1. Food 2. divorce 3. Killing (do not even think of killing) 4. Adultery (do not even think of adultery) etc. In fact, Jesus was crucified by the Jews as Jesus tried to revise many of the Jews' Law. So, Jesus teaching is something new for the Jews at that time, and even until now the Jews could not accept Jesus teaching. DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 12:33:45 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:33:45 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> <4C35EAF8.40001@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C35FDE9.9060402@bibleseven.com> David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 10:12 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> "Lord God" (not merely "God") >> > Not sure what is the different between Lord God and God > > Therein lies a key to the problem. Absent the "Lordship" of God you become your own god and your flesh, as manipulated by Satan, will generally control your life - and threaten your eternity. Note my other post re. the Garden of Eden. >> "holy" >> > Only for specific purpose, particularly related to God > The Bible says we are to seek to be holy as He is holy. >> "perfect" >> > Exactly as it is supposed to be > If God is Lord and He is perfect then He is always correct. Doubting/second-guessing God is a guarantee of failure. Look at all of the examples of that in the Bible - men and women from the earliest reported history of Genesis - who thought they could "help" God or who failed to invite Him into their decision making process. They *always* made a mess of things, and even though He redeemed something good, there were *always* negative unintended long-term consequences. This remains true today. >> "His Word" >> > God's revelation to individual, not just mere written words. > There is *never* a disconnect between God's written Word and anything an individual believes that he/she "hears" from God. Paul said so when he gave kudos to the Bereans for checking everything against the Word (even as they had it in their day). Paul also taught that in addition to the validation of the Word, we may find validation from God's communication to the "elders" (as defined in His Word"). There is no "magic", there are no surprises, there are no "private revelations", because "There is nothing new under the sun." >> BTW: It is irrelevant if one makes the (generally false) claim that >> homosexuals are physiologically different. If I have a physiological >> difference that makes me want to boil you in olive oil and serve you >> to my chickens is the Lord God supposed to be said to endorse that >> as well? >> > Sound like what Abram want to do to his son. > Abraham didn't "want" to do it - he was submitting to the instructions of his Lord God. God clearly never intended for him to sacrifice his son, He wanted to be certain that Abraham would withhold nothing - and not make of his son an "idol" that he would withhold from God. >> And the silly notion that the Bible is "old" somehow makes if less >> relevant and in need of change is directly denied in the text "There >> is nothing new under the sun." How may things are new? None. >> > Wrong. Jesus has revised many of the old testament e.g.: > 1. Food > 2. divorce > 3. Killing (do not even think of killing) > 4. Adultery (do not even think of adultery) > etc. > I am sorry, but you misunderstand the teaching of Jesus. 1. All of the Law and prophesies of the OT pointed to Jesus for their fulfillment. Once fulfilled they were no longer to be related to (by those who surrendered to Christ) as Law (replaced by Grace) or awaited for fulfillment (as is the case for "incomplete Jews" who continue to deny the coming of the Messiah in Jesus). 2. The four specifics you mentioned were not "changed", they were clarified -- based on what God had previously given as prophesy -- again, no surprises! > In fact, Jesus was crucified by the Jews as Jesus tried to revise many > of the Jews' Law. So, Jesus teaching is something new for the Jews at > that time, and even until now the Jews could not accept Jesus > teaching. > > DK > > You confuse Biblical teaching with human tradition. The Jewish leaders were teaching false doctrine - Jesus was a threat because he showed them to be frauds - Jesus taught the true doctrine of the Lord God and they resented that. Jesus said "not one jot or tittle" was changed from the Law (God's Law not the nonsense the religious leaders had piled on top of it) - for those who refused to submit to Him as Messiah - but for those who entered into the grace that He offered God's promises through grace would be fulfilled. Nothing new under the sun. Under who's teaching have you been sitting? He/she is a false teacher and you should run, not walk, away from them as fast as possible! -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 12:40:40 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:40:40 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> On 7/8/2010 10:57 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: {snip} > If you have the quality of Jesus, John the babtis, or Paul, sure you > could judge. But I don't. > > {snip} Whom then, if not Christian filled with the Holy Spirit are following referring too?: (Leviticus 19:17) Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise *rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him*. (2 Timothy 4:1?5) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; *reprove*, *rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine*. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (1 Timothy 5:17?25) Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine. For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward. Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses. *Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear*. I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality. Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men?s sins: keep thyself pure. Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach?s sake and thine often infirmities. Some men?s sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment; and some men they follow after. Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand; and they that are otherwise cannot be hid. (Titus 1:13) This witness is true. Wherefore *rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith*; (Titus 2:15) These things speak, and exhort, and *rebuke with all authority*. Let no man despise thee. etc..... So have you under the guise of unweathyness chosen to ingore these commandments? Alas, I fear most of the modern Church has followed suit. -- bstaggs <>< -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 12:38:17 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:38:17 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35F640.1080407@staggs.net> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C355C71.6020807@lightlink.com> <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> <4C35F640.1080407@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C35FEF9.9060507@bibleseven.com> Yes! You make a very important point! The "canon" did not *make* the Word of the Lord God authoritative, it merely (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit) *identified* what God said was His authoritative Word. And it has nothing to do with the King James version using the term "Authorized", any more than the Jewish leaders declaring their laws piled on top of God's Law "authoritative". God's Word is preserved by God, not a mere secular king and/or his minions. > David, > > Now I think we are getting to the real nature of our disagreement.... > Exactly what do you believe is God's Word and what is not? > > Not canonized yet? For me it was valid as soon as Paul, moved by the > Holy Spirit, penned it. Period! > > Peter seem to believe that his comments/letters carried some weight: > > (2 Peter 3:1?3) This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; > in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: That > ye may *be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy > prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and > Saviour*: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days > scoffers, walking after their own lusts, > > And this was written before any official canonization I believe > also. > > -- bstaggs <>< > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 13:36:04 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:36:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Styles Question Message-ID: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> I need a "Style" for Bible quotes in an OpenOffice document. This page was given as a way to format quoted Bible text: http://bible.org/seriespage/hope-heaven-heaven-according-paul-2-corinthians-411-510-121-10 He wrote: "It's not perfect, but if it's a well-formed verse ref, then it does work great! Quote should be in the style doc. If not, then create a new style and just call it "Quote" (cap sensitive). It will work." I can create a Style called "Quote" but it does not capture the indent. Anyone done this who can explain how to get the indent into the Style, please? One neat thing on the Bible.org site is their NET Bible Tagger which spots a Bible verse citation and makes it a Link to their online NET Bible. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 13:49:13 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:49:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Styles Question In-Reply-To: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C360F99.2070908@bibleseven.com> Never mind, I needed to fire the other geek-synapse! In case anyone wants to know ... Go to FORMAT then PARAGRAPH and set the "Indent Before Text" to 0.50" Then highlight that indented text. Then go to FORMAT then STYLES AND FORMATTING (F11) and on the top right corner mouse-over and click on "New Style From Selection" then click on "New Style From Selection" again and then give it a name (in this case "Quote"). Voila! Q new Style from which to select in the upper left side of the OpenOffice Writer toolbar in the drop-down below Default. > pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > I need a "Style" for Bible quotes in an OpenOffice document. > > This page was given as a way to format quoted Bible text: > http://bible.org/seriespage/hope-heaven-heaven-according-paul-2-corinthians-411-510-121-10 > > > He wrote: > > "It's not perfect, but if it's a well-formed verse ref, then it does > work great! > Quote should be in the style doc. > If not, then create a new style and just call it "Quote" (cap > sensitive). It will work." > > I can create a Style called "Quote" but it does not capture the indent. > > Anyone done this who can explain how to get the indent into the Style, > please? > > One neat thing on the Bible.org site is their NET Bible Tagger which > spots > a Bible verse citation and makes it a Link to their online NET Bible. > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Thu Jul 8 14:43:04 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:43:04 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> Since some of you use Open Office, I was wonder how the portable version compare with the locally installed version. Anyone have any experience with the portable version? Thanks, -- bstaggs <>< From gorkon at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 14:51:29 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:51:29 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> Message-ID: Never used it, but I bet it's the same. Portable apps (like you can put on a thumb drive) aren't really as popular on Linux as Windows. Can you do it? Sure. Do you want to or need too? Not really as long as you have X you don't really need a portable app. Just run it on your desktop remotely and scp the results back. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Since some of you use Open Office, I was wonder how the portable version > compare with the locally installed version. ?Anyone have any experience with > the portable version? > > Thanks, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From parrisdc at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 16:33:52 2010 From: parrisdc at gmail.com (Don Parris) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 16:33:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Styles Question In-Reply-To: <4C360F99.2070908@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C360F99.2070908@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:49 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com < pastordavid at bibleseven.com> wrote: > Never mind, I needed to fire the other geek-synapse! > > :-) Happens to me all the time, brother! Blessings! Don -- D.C. Parris, FMP LEED AP O+M Minister, Security/FM Coordinator, Free Software Advocate https://www.xing.com/profile/Don_Parris http://www.linkedin.com/in/dcparris http://www.facebook.com/don.parris -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 17:10:11 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:10:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Most Christians Are Long on Prayers But Short on Works Message-ID: <4C363EB3.4090003@lightlink.com> Most Christians Are Long on Prayers But Short on Works The Holy Ghost puts steel in your spine. Most Christians never share the Gospel, even with their friends. Their silence has enabled sin to run unopposed, especially in the schools that the Christians underwrite to educate their children. The entire book of Acts is a record of the valor of those who spoke the Truth of God even in the face of death....... http://www.newswithviews.com/Daubenmire/dave199.htm by Coach Dave Daubenmire -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 17:14:08 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 17:14:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C363FA0.5090808@lightlink.com> On 07/08/2010 03:37 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > If the homosexual is between two person only and they do it > voluntarily, would that be a cry? Sodom and Gomora were punished > because of the cry. Or, was it the cry from heterosexual people to > homosexual people? > > Please let me know your interpretation. > "Interpretation." How convenient some use that word to try to change what the Scriptures say or at least insinuate that there's a hidden meaning. Amazing. It IS what is SAYS it is, David! Period! Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From htgage3 at chartermi.net Thu Jul 8 17:41:28 2010 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 17:41:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20100708174129.FCCBI.3247070.root@mp15> Sooo, what is the myth? David you've been twisting the Scriptures so much, I'm thinking along the same lines as Dr Steve and Fred. But you say, with some twisting in there, that you are not. Ummmm, as Artie Johnson used to say on "Laugh In" "Verrrryyy Interesting!" ---- David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > On 07/07/2010 11:24 PM, Proyecto Puente Internacional, A.C. wrote: > > > > Wow, David.? That is SOOOO old!? The "Judge not" verse is ALWAYS quoted out > > of context by people who are living openly in sin and refuse to repent.? A > > text?out?of?context?is?a?pretext. > > > > How about 1 Corinthians 2:15 -- "But he that is spiritual judgeth all > > things, yet he himself is judged of no man."? And in I Corinthians 5, Paul > > explicitly REBUKES the Corinthian believers for NOT judging the fornicator > > among?them!??So?Paul?is?wrong?and?you?are?right? > > > > And of course, you seem totally consumed with the need to defend what God > > specifically condemns.? So David, I have but one OBVIOUS question for you: > > How?long?have?YOU?been?living?the?gay?lifestyle? > > > > You beat me to it!! ;) He's twisted Scripture enough here that I arrived at > > the same conclusion. > > So, in this case, both of you think it is impossible for God? To > create a church that believe the bible is the word of God an at the > same time believe that it also contain myth? > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians From htgage3 at chartermi.net Thu Jul 8 17:59:00 2010 From: htgage3 at chartermi.net (htgage3 at chartermi.net) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 14:59:00 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35ED83.9030200@staggs.net> Message-ID: <20100708175901.3028G.8628987.root@mp19> Let me further go on that one word "inspiration" it means God breathed. i.e. God spoke through the Holy Spirit, and let the human author put it into his words that he was familiar with. ---- "Billy F. Staggs" wrote: > Add me to the list of those that disbelieve it is possible to call God a > liar and Lord at the same time. Which is in my opinion what you are > unknowing doing when you claim parts of the Bible are myths. > > (2 Timothy 3:16--17) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and > is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction > in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly > furnished unto all good works. > > -- > bstaggs <>< > > On 7/8/2010 12:20 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > > > > So, in this case, both of you think it is impossible for God? To > > create a church that believe the bible is the word of God an at the > > same time believe that it also contain myth? > > > > DK > > _______________________________________________ > > Linux4christians mailing list > > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > > From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 18:24:19 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 18:24:19 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Hawaii Governor vetoes same sex civil union bill - EXCELLENT! Message-ID: <4C365013.6030703@lightlink.com> Hawaii Governor vetoes same sex civil union bill Posted: 07 Jul 2010 10:09 AM PDT Good news from the battle to defend traditional marriage. This time it comes from Hawaii, where Republican Governor Linda Lingle has finally decided to veto the same-sex civil unions bill that was passed by that state's legislature this past April. It's another big win in another typically "blue" state, which is a big blow to liberals who have been reeling from defeats in California and Maine over the past few years (which also tend to be "blue" states). The bill would have given all of the same rights and benefits of traditional marriage to homosexual couples, with the only difference being the term "civil union" instead of "marriage. This has been the political route taken by those pushing for full gay marriage in cases where they didn't think they could go that far right away, which again, makes it a big defeat. -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 20:03:42 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:03:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Microsoft layoffs Message-ID: <4C36675E.1070506@lightlink.com> Microsoft layoffs: Marketing, Office, partner groups all reportedly hit A new round of Microsoft layoffs is, indeed, happening on July 7, as long-rumored and expected. Where are the cuts happening? READ FULL STORY -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorkon at gmail.com Thu Jul 8 20:28:24 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2010 20:28:24 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Microsoft layoffs In-Reply-To: <4C36675E.1070506@lightlink.com> References: <4C36675E.1070506@lightlink.com> Message-ID: Probably the Microsoft Kin team. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 8:03 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Microsoft layoffs: Marketing, Office, partner groups all reportedly hit > > A new round of Microsoft layoffs is, indeed, happening on July 7, as > long-rumored and expected. Where are the cuts happening? > > READ FULL STORY > > -- > Beware every time you hear liberals say ?crisis.? What > they?re really saying is ?taxes? ? as in ?let me raise > your taxes; it will be good for you.? > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 8 20:45:20 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 20:45:20 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 35:6-29 (Friday) Message-ID: <4C367120.8000607@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 35:6-29 (Friday)* 35:6 Jacob and all those who were with him arrived at Luz (that is, Bethel) in the land of Canaan. 35:7 He built an altar there and named the place El Bethel because there God had revealed himself to him when he was fleeing from his brother. 35:8 (Deborah, Rebekah's nurse, died and was buried under the oak below Bethel; thus it was named Oak of Weeping.) 35:9 God appeared to Jacob again after he returned from Paddan Aram and blessed him. 35:10 God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but your name will no longer be called Jacob; Israel will be your name." So God named him Israel. 35:11 Then God said to him, "I am the sovereign God. Be fruitful and multiply! A nation -- even a company of nations -- will descend from you; kings will be among your descendants! 35:12 The land I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you. To your descendants I will also give this land." 35:13 Then God went up from the place where he spoke with him. 35:14 So Jacob set up a sacred stone pillar in the place where God spoke with him. He poured out a drink offering on it, and then he poured oil on it. 35:15 Jacob named the place where God spoke with him Bethel. 35:16 They traveled on from Bethel, and when Ephrath was still some distance away, Rachel went into labor -- and her labor was hard. 35:17 When her labor was at its hardest, the midwife said to her, "Don't be afraid, for you are having another son." 35:18 With her dying breath, she named him Ben-Oni. But his father called him Benjamin instead. 35:19 So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem). 35:20 Jacob set up a marker over her grave; it is the Marker of Rachel's Grave to this day. 35:21 Then Israel traveled on and pitched his tent beyond Migdal Eder. 35:22 While Israel was living in that land, Reuben had sexual relations with Bilhah, his father's concubine, and Israel heard about it. Jacob had twelve sons: 35:23 The sons of Leah were Reuben, Jacob's firstborn, as well as Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, and Zebulun. 35:24 The sons of Rachel were Joseph and Benjamin. 35:25 The sons of Bilhah, Rachel's servant, were Dan and Naphtali. 35:26 The sons of Zilpah, Leah's servant, were Gad and Asher. These were the sons of Jacob who were born to him in Paddan Aram. 35:27 So Jacob came back to his father Isaac in Mamre, to Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron), where Abraham and Isaac had stayed. 35:28 Isaac lived to be 180 years old. 35:29 Then Isaac breathed his last and joined his ancestors. He died an old man who had lived a full life. His sons Esau and Jacob buried him. * * *Prayer:* Lord, may my life be known for my faithfulness in pausing to give you the glory, praise, and worship, and for the way that I have multiplied those who are known by Your name. *Commentary* Jacob/Israel returned to Bethel where Rebekah's servant Deborah died and was buried. Jacob/Israel built an altar there in remembrance of God meeting him there 20 years prior when he was fleeing the rage of Esau. God appears again to Jacob, reiterating His promise for Abraham and Isaac to Jacob/Israel's descendants and reiterating His prior message to Jacob that his name was now Israel. Jacob erected a stone pillar in remembrance and poured-out a "drink offering", possibly wine or blood from an animal sacrifice, followed by oil. Near Ephrath, midway from Bethel to Bethlehem Rachel gives birth to Benjamin and dies in childbirth. She is buried there. During the journey that followed Jacob/Israel's son Reuben had sexual relations with Bilhah, Jacob/Israel's father's concubine, and he became aware of that sin. Jacob/Israel returned to "... Isaac in Mamre, to Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron), where Abraham and Isaac had stayed." in time see Isaac before he died at 180 years of age. *Interaction* *Consider this:* Jacob was told by the man/angel with whom he had earlier wrestled that his name would become Israel and now God makes it so. *Discuss this:* When Adam named the animals in the Garden it was a statement of "ownership" or of a hierarchical relationship where the one who names is above the being that is named. Here God acknowledges that Jacob's relationship with Him has matured to a place where he is truly God's man and thus God gives him a new name. This is not the first time that God did this. *Reflect on this:* Rachel died giving birth to Benjamin, comforted in her final moments of suffering when told that she was bearing Jacob/Israel another son. Her desperate desire to compete with Leah in producing sons was a priority until the final moments of her life. The twelve sons of Israel will become the 12 Tribes of Israel. *Share this:* When have a series of major events, mixed blessings and losses such as Jacob/Israel experienced along the way home, caused you to draw nearer to God? * * *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to seek you in all of the moments of my life, the difficult and the good. *Action:* I will reflect upon a list of several of the most difficult and the most joyful events of my life and prayerfully seek the presence of God in them, and even today as He teaches me something new through them. I will share what the Holy Spirit shows me with a fellow believer, as an encouragement and a praise, and with someone considering-Christ, as a witness to God's faithful love. *Be Specific* _______________________________________________________________________ / / */Saturday's text will be: Genesis 36:1-43/ * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Thu Jul 8 21:07:07 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 21:07:07 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Hawaii Governor vetoes same sex civil union bill - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C365013.6030703@lightlink.com> References: <4C365013.6030703@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <1278637627.3127.3.camel@P-733-Lin> On Thu, 2010-07-08 at 18:24 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Hawaii Governor vetoes same sex civil union bill > > Posted: 07 Jul 2010 10:09 AM PDT > > Good news from the battle to defend traditional marriage. This time > it comes from Hawaii, where Republican Governor Linda Lingle has > finally decided to veto the same-sex civil unions bill that was passed > by that state's legislature this past April. > > It's another big win in another typically "blue" state, which is a big > blow to liberals who have been reeling from defeats in California and > Maine over the past few years (which also tend to be "blue" states). > > The bill would have given all of the same rights and benefits of > traditional marriage to homosexual couples, with the only difference > being the term "civil union" instead of "marriage. This has been the > political route taken by those pushing for full gay marriage in cases > where they didn't think they could go that far right away, which > again, makes it a big defeat. I'm still a tad confused from your last Federal Election, what I kept hearing out of the "Blue Candidate" was little more than "separate but equal" on this subject, wasn't there a whole movement to get rid of that type of equality farce? (And why on earth did the media not bother to pick up on it?) From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 8 22:51:47 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2010 22:51:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: Hawaii Governor vetoes same sex civil union bill - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <1278637627.3127.3.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <4C365013.6030703@lightlink.com> <1278637627.3127.3.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: <4C368EC3.9010607@lightlink.com> On 07/08/2010 09:07 PM, Mike McMullin wrote: > I'm still a tad confused from your last Federal Election, what I kept > hearing out of the "Blue Candidate" was little more than "separate but > equal" on this subject, wasn't there a whole movement to get rid of that > type of equality farce? (And why on earth did the media not bother to > pick up on it?) > Who knows. What's good is, she vetoed it. Fred -- Beware every time you hear liberals say "crisis." What they're really saying is "taxes" -- as in "let me raise your taxes; it will be good for you." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 00:31:01 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:31:01 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35FDE9.9060402@bibleseven.com> References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> <4C35EAF8.40001@bibleseven.com> <4C35FDE9.9060402@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:33 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > > Nothing new under the sun. > > Under who's teaching have you been sitting? I guess you are referring to below verse: Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. For me, this verse is correct and wrong at the same time. This verse is actually just want to say that Salomon is bored, or never experience new things. But if you think that there is no new thing under the sun, it is also wrong. Let me explain: On the fourth day, God created the sun, right? Ok, here we go: 1. On the fifth day, God created fish and birds. That was NEW thing. Never has fish and bird under the sun before. 2. On the sixth day, God created animal and human. That was NEW thing. 3. Eve sin against God: That was new thing. Nobody sin before 4. Cain was born. That was new thing 5. Cain murder Abel 6. Homosexual relationship .... (ooops) 7. Jesus died on the cross for our sin (not new? Come on...) 8. ..... I could cary on until cows come home. And you think there is no new thing under the sun? DK From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 00:39:26 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 11:39:26 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > Whom then, if not Christian filled with the Holy Spirit are following > referring too?: Does anybody here know what I ate yesterday? Does anybody here know what sin I have committed recently? Does anybody here know how many girl friends I have? If you are filled with the Holy spirit, you could easily answered those questions, as Peter detect the lies of Ananias and Saphira. I could tell you that I have met such person, that could answer those questions even he is miles away from me. That what I think one of the indication of" filled with Holy Spirit". DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 9 00:43:15 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:43:15 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> Only a demon would offer that kind of information. > Does anybody here know what I ate yesterday? Does anybody here know > what sin I have committed recently? Does anybody here know how many > girl friends I have? > > If you are filled with the Holy spirit, you could easily answered > those questions, as Peter detect the lies of Ananias and Saphira. > I could tell you that I have met such person, that could answer those > questions even he is miles away from me. > > That what I think one of the indication of" filled with Holy Spirit". > > DK > > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 00:51:11 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:51:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <20100707221402.KNCEL.8595438.root@mp16> <4C3539B4.7050703@bibleseven.com> <4C355BD4.2010502@lightlink.com> <4C356E75.8090408@lightlink.com> <4C35D5B2.7060504@bibleseven.com> <4C35EAF8.40001@bibleseven.com> <4C35FDE9.9060402@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C36AABF.9060700@lightlink.com> On 07/09/2010 12:31 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:33 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> > >> > Nothing new under the sun. >> > >> > Under who's teaching have you been sitting? >> > I guess you are referring to below verse: > > Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that > which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing > under the sun. > > For me, this verse is correct and wrong at the same time. This verse > is actually just want to say that Salomon is bored, or never > experience new things. But if you think that there is no new thing > under the sun, it is also wrong. > Ok.....so now we understand....you want to rewrite the Scriptures. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 00:53:10 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 00:53:10 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C36AB36.6080302@lightlink.com> On 07/09/2010 12:43 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Only a demon would offer that kind of information. > >> Does anybody here know what I ate yesterday? Does anybody here know >> what sin I have committed recently? Does anybody here know how many >> girl friends I have? >> >> If you are filled with the Holy spirit, you could easily answered >> those questions, as Peter detect the lies of Ananias and Saphira. >> I could tell you that I have met such person, that could answer those >> questions even he is miles away from me. >> >> That what I think one of the indication of" filled with Holy Spirit". Bingo! Just like fortune tellers, etc. Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 01:06:12 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 12:06:12 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:43 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Only a demon would offer that kind of information. Sound familiar: Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the prince of the devils. DK From chris at adebenham.com Fri Jul 9 01:09:15 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 15:09:15 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: As these threads continue, more and more I am convicted that we all need to pray about this and in particular pray for DK and his church. I truly believe that they are being led astray and moving away from God. This worries me deeply that people are being deceived by these teachings and I do not believe that it is the work of God here, but rather the work of the enemy. By all means keep conversing with DK and others who are being led astray - but ensure your words are written to correct in love and that they teach truth. Do not allow yourselves to be led away, nor get caught up in unimportant details, instead focus on what is being taught and how it needs correction. I know I will be praying for DK's heart,mind and soul - that the Holy Spirit will work in his life to correct misleading teaching and hopefully help him to then take correct knowledge to correct others in their beliefs where it conflicts with the Word of God DK, please open your heart and mind to corrections of your fellow Christians. I do believe that you do wish to follow Christ and his teaching but feel that you have been led astray by false teaching. I ask that you too pray and ask for the Holy Spirit to enter you and guide you as a wise counsellor. (note: this email is not directed at pastordavid - rather at all those involved in the ongoing threads - it was just his email which prompted me to speak up since I really agree with him on that one) On 9 July 2010 14:43, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Only a demon would offer that kind of information. > >> Does anybody here know what I ate yesterday? Does anybody here know >> what sin I have committed recently? Does anybody here know how many >> girl friends I have? >> >> If you are filled with the Holy spirit, you could easily answered >> those questions, as Peter detect the lies of Ananias and Saphira. >> I could tell you that I have met such person, that could answer those >> questions even he is miles away from me. >> >> That what I think one of the indication of" filled with Holy Spirit". >> >> DK >> >> > > > -- > > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! ?Pastor David > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 9 01:11:02 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 01:11:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> I am not hearing demons cast-out but I sure do hear them invited in ... > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 11:43 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> Only a demon would offer that kind of information. >> > Sound familiar: > > Mat 9:34 But the Pharisees said, He casteth out devils through the > prince of the devils. > > DK > > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 05:36:31 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 16:36:31 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:11 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > I am not hearing demons cast-out but I sure do hear them invited in ... I think I will tell you a story happen in my company not so long ago. I have about 300 workers and I heard one of my workers felt to a big river near our company and drown to death. Upon further inquiry, it appears that she did not fall to the river, but committed suicide. I think it is not a good idea to commit suicide, we have to try to face our problem, that is what I thought. But I tried to dig the story further. She has just got married for a few months, but she never had sex with her husband. The problem is her sex orientation, she is a lesbian. The people here do not approve same sex relationship and it is considered as a disgrace for the family so as the family forced her to marry a man. This was an arrange marriage, which is still common here. As a result, her husband was also became a victim due to her condition. As she did not see any good solution, she decided to commit suicide to relieve everybody else from this difficult, embarrassing, and shameful condition. I admire her decision to sacrifice herself so as to relieve everybody else that are HOLY and PURE from this problem. She reminded me how Christ sacrifice Himself for unholy and dirty man like me. DK From l4c at thelinuxlink.net Fri Jul 9 07:38:44 2010 From: l4c at thelinuxlink.net (l4c) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 07:38:44 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C370A44.8000604@thelinuxlink.net> David Kuntadi wrote: > I admire her decision to sacrifice herself so as to relieve everybody > else that are HOLY and PURE from this problem. She reminded me how > Christ sacrifice Himself for unholy and dirty man like me. > > DK Wow, really David? I think this says a lot for your mindset. That is probably the most tragic thing you have said yet. Nobody wins or is helped from someone committing suicide like that. -- -Linc Fessenden In the Beginning there was nothing, which exploded - Yeah right... From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri Jul 9 09:23:11 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 08:23:11 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C3722BF.7040508@staggs.net> Where did you get that being Spirit filled means that you are enlighten with every intricate detail of God's creation. Last time I check the Spirit revels what God decides, when He feels it is time, not the recipient. Paul who the Bible clearly illustrates is filled with the Spirit, failed to know all. Acts 20:22--23 (KJV) And now, behold, I go *bound in the spirit* unto Jerusalem, *not knowing the things that shall befall me there*: Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/8/2010 11:39 PM, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > >> Whom then, if not Christian filled with the Holy Spirit are following >> referring too?: >> > Does anybody here know what I ate yesterday? Does anybody here know > what sin I have committed recently? Does anybody here know how many > girl friends I have? > > If you are filled with the Holy spirit, you could easily answered > those questions, as Peter detect the lies of Ananias and Saphira. > I could tell you that I have met such person, that could answer those > questions even he is miles away from me. > > That what I think one of the indication of" filled with Holy Spirit". > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri Jul 9 12:15:34 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 11:15:34 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C370A44.8000604@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> <4C370A44.8000604@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4C374B26.3070700@staggs.net> Once less Bible believing Church..... :-( http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/08/presbyterians-voting-open-stance-gay-clergy-marriage-decisions-wont-final/ -- bstaggs <>< From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 13:10:03 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:10:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C374B26.3070700@staggs.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> <4C370A44.8000604@thelinuxlink.net> <4C374B26.3070700@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C3757EB.6050703@lightlink.com> On 07/09/2010 12:15 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > > Once less Bible believing Church..... :-( > > http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/08/presbyterians-voting-open-stance-gay-clergy-marriage-decisions-wont-final/ It was expected, Billie. The demonination has been pushed to the left by liberals for some time. I don't think the majority of churches will approve it, so it will "die" again. If it does, the same thing that has and is happening to the Episcopal church WILL happen to the Presbyterian church. Fred -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 12:26:42 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 12:26:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OT: SO GOOD, I had to post it! Giant Killing Faith Message-ID: <4C374DC2.6040406@lightlink.com> Giant Killing Faith *Scroll* Those upon whom the fulfillment of the ages has come, have _much_ to learn about faith from the Biblical account of David killing Goliath, and, as it is with much of the Old Testament, this event in David's life was not meant for him alone. It was also intended as a source of _revelation_ for us, because there be *GIANTS* greater than Goliath gathering just over the horizon to persecute the people of the Lord and oppose the will of God in the last days. Giants, although never common, were apparently not uncommon in David's day, and we're not talking about NBA seven footers. We're talking about nine feet of muscle and sinew. They would have their own weight class in the WCW or WWF. In *Genesis 6:2-4* we find that the occurrence of giants originated with a strange event in which fallen angels, referred to here as "sons of God", mated with women. /* When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days will be a hundred and twenty years." */ */ The Nephilim...(giants)... were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown. (insert is the author's) /* */ /* Mankind, with bloodlines corrupted by fallen angels, was given over to evil in those days, and God determined to cleanse the earth with a flood. Only Noah, his wife, his sons, and their wives were spared. However, in Numbers we find that the descendents of the Nephilim still existed in the days when Moses led the Israelites to the promised land. */ We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them. /**/_Numbers 13:33 NIV_ /* */ /* Although scripture does not provide an explanation, it is possible that at least one of the wives of Noah's sons was contaminated by the Nephilim bloodline. This would seem strange since the very purpose of the flood was to purge sinful mankind, but Noah's sons, their wives, and any children would have been covered or sanctified by Noah's covenant with God, regardless of their individual standing with God and regardless of any contamination of the bloodline. It also appears that Gath was the stronghold of these descendents of fallen angels and the daughters of men, and Goliath the Gittite was the predominant Nephilim of his day, the champion and hero of the Philistines. Goliath challenged the Israelites to provide a champion of their own to face him in single combat, because, from the Philistine point of view, if the Israelites were foolish enough to take up the challenge, Israel would quickly become subjugated to them. On the surface of things it seems unlikely that a young man, who was still considered to be too young for military service, would be allowed by Saul to face this giant, since the outcome of this uneven fight could put the entire nation of Israel into slavery. *So why did he allow it?* Unknown to Saul, David had already been anointed by Samuel to be the future king of Israel (1 Samuel 1:1-13), and Saul had chosen him to be one of his armor-bearers, although Saul did not yet know that David had been anointed to take his place as king of Israel. The fact that Saul did not know about David's anointing by Samuel is easy to understand. David's brothers could have spread the word, but they were embarrassed by their own rejection, and David himself kept quiet, waiting on the Lord to reveal the anointing at the appropriate time. Therefore, David, as Saul's armor-bearer, had some standing with Saul before the event, or he would never have had an audience with Saul at the battlefront. And Saul's jealousy had not yet been aroused, because he knew nothing of David's anointing. */ David said to Saul, "Let no one lose heart on account of this Philistine; your servant will go and fight him." /* */ Saul replied, "You are not able to go out against this Philistine and fight him; you are only a boy, and he has been a fighting man from his youth." /* */ But David said to Saul, "Your servant has been keeping his father's sheep. When a lion or a bear came and carried off a sheep from the flock, I went after it, struck it and rescued the sheep from its mouth. When it turned on me, I seized it by its hair, struck it and killed it. Your servant has killed both the lion and the bear; this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, because he has defied the armies of the living God. The LORD who delivered me from the paw of the lion and the paw of the bear will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine."/* /* Saul said to David, "Go, and the LORD be with you."*/ _1 Samuel 17:32-37 NIV_ David's account of killing the lion and the bear is unbelievable when considered from the natural point of view, and it would have been just as unbelievable to Saul. The only other person in the Bible who killed a lion with his bare hands was Samson, and he only killed a "young lion". Not even a powerful grown man is capable of seizing a lion or bear by the hair and killing it with a single blow. *Only a man anointed and empowered by the Holy Spirit would be capable of such a feat.** * We assume, because of Saul's failure later in life, that he was _not_ a man of faith, but only a man who had been given "ears to hear" would have believed that David had killed a lion and a bear with his bare hands in the strength and anointing of the Holy Spirit. Many who have read this account miss the singular and important fact that Saul believed, *by faith*, David's account of killing a lion and a bear, and he, too, received *by faith* the promise that this uncircumcised (outside the covenants of God) giant could not stand against the anointed of God, even if the anointed one was still a shepherd boy and not a warrior. * *The decision to let David face Goliath is proof that Saul's own faith was involved in the decision and, yet, he tried to equip David with his own armor and weapons. In the life of the body of Christ today that would be the equivalent of receiving a command or commission by revelation from the Holy Spirit and then trying to implement that command or commission with the strong arm of the flesh. It won't work, as many Christians and many churches today have proven over and over. The work of the Lord is only effective when the grace (anointing and empowerment) of God is manifested through our active faith, and David's faith was evident. David rejected Saul's armor, saying, "I cannot go in these, because I am not used to them." His rejection of Saul's armor was a rejection of the strong arm of the flesh in favor of the power of God. In this account we also see how the Holy Spirit prepared David for this work of faith by allowing him to face the lion and the bear. *Sometimes we don't understand the difficulties and hardships we have faced in the past until we have to face the giant.* Then we understand that we would never have had the faith to stand against the giant if we had not experienced other fiery trials along the way. *The fiery trials were _necessary_ for the development of David's faith, and they are necessary for ours as well.* Oddly enough David's killing of a lion and a bear appears not to have been known by anyone but David. He kept it to himself until the Holy Spirit caused him to reveal it to Saul. If he had revealed it to his family at the time, he would either have been ridiculed as a liar and a braggart, or he would have become a famous folk hero. How many of us would keep such a thing to ourselves? But David kept quiet and waited on the Lord. As David prepared for the fight he picked up _five_ smooth stones as the Lord obviously instructed and put them into his shepherd's bag. But why _five_ stones? If the Lord was going to deliver Goliath into his hands why would he need five stones? Was this an act of unbelief, a momentary lapse in the extraordinary anointing of the moment? Yet, immediately afterward we hear David prophesying to Goliath. David said to the Philistine,*/You come against me with sword and spear and javelin, but I come against you in the name of the LORD Almighty, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied. This day the LORD will hand you over to me, and I'll strike you down and cut off your head. Today I will give the carcasses of the Philistine army to the birds of the air and the beasts of the earth, and the whole world will know that there is a God in Israel. All those gathered here will know that it is not by sword or spear that the LORD saves; for the battle is the LORD's, and he will give all of you into our hands./* *In David's heart it is already done*. He had the *revelation* of God, and he is so eager for the manifestation that he _ran_ toward Goliath. Can you imagine the giant's confusion? He is a fully armored, battle hardened, four hundred pound warrior, and David is a teenage boy in sandals running toward him with a slingshot whirling around his head in a noisy blur. The outcome was never in doubt with David, and the outcome should never be in doubt with us. *If we have the revelation of God in our hearts* we should run to the battle with the joy of the Lord rising up inside us no matter how the circumstances seem to be stacked against us. David's faith was not something he worked up on his own. He didn't copy some other man of faith, using his words and actions. He didn't dig through the Bible looking for promises to claim. He didn't decide that he wanted to kill Goliath so he could marry the king's daughter and then try to work up the faith to get the job done. He did what New Testament believers are supposed to do. He did not try to direct the anointing to meet his needs. *He responded with obedience to the anointing he received.* When Samuel anointed David, David did not refuse, nor did he boast. He simply received and believed, and he waited on the Lord. When the lion and the bear attacked the sheep David responded to the anointing without hesitation, and the Lord allowed him to experience the supernatural power of the Holy Spirit. Again he did not boast or attempt to gain glory for himself. He simply obeyed and then waited on the Lord. Most New Testament believers would immediately go out looking for more lions and bears to kill. Some would start a lion and bear killing ministry. In short order there would be a new denomination, the Church of the Lion Killers, who would believe that they now had the whole truth. But David waited on the Lord, and the Lord brought him out of the fields to the battle where he anointed his trustworthy servant once again. Most of us yearn to experience the power of God. We're so eager for it that we sometimes attempt to manufacture the manifestations of the Holy Spirit and attempt to manufacture the manifestations of faith, but what did David do? David waited on the Lord. David would have been taught the Torah and the prophets in his family and in his synagogue, but he waited on the Lord in regard to the anointing and his faith. *He waited on the Lord, and then he responded to the Lord's anointing in absolute, determined, joy-filled, obedience.* * * But what about the five stones? Wasn't that a moment of doubt, a momentary slip of faith? After all, it only took one stone to kill Goliath. In 2 Samuel 21:15-22 there is an account of four more giants being killed by David's men. */ These four were descendants of Rapha in Gath, and they fell at the hands of David and his men/.* _2 Samuel 21:22 NIV_ The revelation and promise of God included, not only Goliath, but four additional giants. Thus five stones. David's faith and obedience *included giants that he did not, yet, know about*. There are lions and bears and giants in our lives, too. If we go up against them in our own strength (or with some new "faith" fad) and at the moment of our own choosing, we _will_ be put to flight, even though it is the Lord's will that we overcome. In spite of what some teachers of the Word are saying, we cannot generate giant-killing faith as an act of our own will. The Lord will first allow the lion and the bear to come against us to prove the anointing and the faith He is giving us. Only then will we be allowed to face the giant. *If we want to experience giant-killing faith we must first be willing to go through the fiery trials and the testing of our faith (the testing of our willingness to "hear" and "obey" the voice of the Lord in _all_ things).* * * Every experience of "hearing" and "obeying" the voice of the Lord, even as the still small voice of the Spirit, our spiritual conscience, every prayer of faith, every difficult passage of life in which we have turned to the Lord, trusting by faith, is a preparation for the trials to come. Like athletes, we are either aggressively pursuing the perfection of our faith, or we are just "maintaining." And, like soldiers, we are either eager to be on the front lines, like Marines or Special Forces, killing giants, or we are content to be lollygagging back in camp. But if lollygagging back in camp is our choice we will be totally unprepared when the giants storm the camp, and *there _are_ giants preparing to storm the camp. * * * It is noteworthy that the lion and the bear attacked the sheep. They did not attack David. David's fearless, faith-filled response was triggered by his sense of responsibility for the sheep rather than self-defense. Likewise, David's response to Goliath was _not_ personal. His fearless, faith-filled response was against the threat to God's covenant people. What does that tell us? It tells me that if I want the manifestation of giant-killing faith in my life I must submit to the testing of my faith in all things rather than seeking faith "techniques" for the meeting of my own needs. It tells me I need to be about the business of interceding for others, _especially_ for my brothers and sisters in Christ, but that I must not attempt to _manufacture_ faith, even on behalf of others. It tells me that if I wait on the Lord He will be faithful to anoint me and fill me with faith for His purpose, and it tells me that if I am obedient to the anointing and the revelation, the giants _will_ fall, even those giants that I do not, as yet, know anything about. *But I _do_ know that they are coming, and you, brothers and sisters, if you are paying attention to what the Lord is saying to His church, know they are coming, too.* */See, I have _warned_ you in advance./* Matthew 24:25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Final Instructions cover**_Final Instructions_* - *A discipleship Bible study guide based on the Lord's instructions to His disciples on the day He was betrayed and crucified. John 13-17* *What is the primary reason for division and strife in the church, and what is our individual responsibility in regard to unity in the body of Christ?* *Do we have to depend on Bible experts and authorities to tell us what to believe, or can we learn to discern the truth, promises, and commands of the Lord for ourselves?* *How do we "hear" the Lord's voice and receive His truth, promises, and commands?* *What is genuine faith, and how are disciples supposed to do the "works" of the Lord today?* *Available from Logos Publishing Company: **http://www.logospubco.com* * To view or print this article as a Word.doc: Giant Killing Faith If you are forwarding this email to others, please use the Forward email link below. * -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ACCOUNT.IMAGE.2 Type: image/jpeg Size: 49124 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ACCOUNT.IMAGE.1 Type: image/jpeg Size: 91556 bytes Desc: not available URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 13:34:14 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 13:34:14 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP Message-ID: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP NTP Inc. settled for $600 million plus in 2006 after a lawsuit against RIM and now they are bringing the fight to Apple, Microsoft, Google, HTC, Motorola, and LG Electronics. There may be some... -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorkon at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 14:53:30 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 14:53:30 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> Message-ID: Yup.....just posted on this. Pretty much every smartphone manufacturer is being sued. There is hope though....they were suing Palm for the same thing, but the court has put it on hold. http://www.geardiary.com/2010/07/09/remember-ntp-theyre-back-and-they-are-suing-everybody/ On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from > NTP > > NTP Inc. settled for $600 million plus in 2006 after a lawsuit against RIM > and now they are bringing the fight to Apple, Microsoft, Google, HTC, > Motorola, and LG Electronics. There may be some... > > -- > Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your > agenda and dogma! > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 17:00:56 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 17:00:56 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <4C370A44.8000604@thelinuxlink.net> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> <4C370A44.8000604@thelinuxlink.net> Message-ID: <4C378E08.6010303@lightlink.com> On 07/09/2010 07:38 AM, l4c wrote: > David Kuntadi wrote: >> I admire her decision to sacrifice herself so as to relieve everybody >> else that are HOLY and PURE from this problem. She reminded me how >> Christ sacrifice Himself for unholy and dirty man like me. >> >> DK > > Wow, really David? I think this says a lot for your mindset. That is > probably the most tragic thing you have said yet. Nobody wins or is > helped from someone committing suicide like that. INCLUDING the one who does it! Fred -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Fri Jul 9 18:36:43 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:36:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <1278715003.7200.5.camel@P-733-Lin> On Fri, 2010-07-09 at 16:36 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote: > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:11 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > > I am not hearing demons cast-out but I sure do hear them invited in ... > > I think I will tell you a story happen in my company not so long ago. > I have about 300 workers and I heard one of my workers felt to a big > river near our company and drown to death. > > Upon further inquiry, it appears that she did not fall to the river, > but committed suicide. I think it is not a good idea to commit > suicide, we have to try to face our problem, that is what I thought. > But I tried to dig the story further. > > She has just got married for a few months, but she never had sex with > her husband. The problem is her sex orientation, she is a lesbian. The > people here do not approve same sex relationship and it is considered > as a disgrace for the family so as the family forced her to marry a > man. This was an arrange marriage, which is still common here. > As a result, her husband was also became a victim due to her > condition. As she did not see any good solution, she decided to > commit suicide to relieve everybody else from this difficult, > embarrassing, and shameful condition. Normally when a homosexual in this kind of situation commits that act, it's an act of final desperation, removing the situation from oneself. > I admire her decision to sacrifice herself so as to relieve everybody > else that are HOLY and PURE from this problem. She reminded me how > Christ sacrifice Himself for unholy and dirty man like me. David, the Devil got a never deserved victory in her death. I cannot speak to the culture and the idea of taint on those around due to her sexual orientation, but killing oneself is not the answer. Christ died in her stead, bore the weight of her sins, and she never realized it. From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Fri Jul 9 18:48:48 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 05:48:48 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Shellfish Logic and the Defense of Homosexual Marriage - EXCELLENT! In-Reply-To: <1278715003.7200.5.camel@P-733-Lin> References: <4C336B55.7050401@lightlink.com> <4C33D101.7010400@staggs.net> <4C33F591.2000707@lightlink.com> <4C3408FC.6010901@lightlink.com> <4C34FD6D.8020301@lightlink.com> <4C34FF98.9090307@bibleseven.com> <4C350B93.5040104@lightlink.com> <4C35EB62.1030406@staggs.net> <4C35FF88.4040408@staggs.net> <4C36A8E3.7030306@bibleseven.com> <4C36AF66.9010404@bibleseven.com> <1278715003.7200.5.camel@P-733-Lin> Message-ID: On Sat, Jul 10, 2010 at 5:36 AM, Mike McMullin wrote: > ?David, the Devil got a never deserved victory in her death. ?I cannot > speak to the culture and the idea of taint on those around due to her > sexual orientation, but killing oneself is not the answer. ?Christ died > in her stead, bore the weight of her sins, and she never realized it. There is one thing I regretted: I had never had chance to talk to her. I have informed my subordinates, that while our job is to manage our employee and solve work related problems, I want them to understand and help their subordinates with their personal (not work related) problems as well and escalate to me in case they could not solve them. DK From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Fri Jul 9 19:27:20 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2010 17:27:20 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> Message-ID: I was just reading about this on Slashdot. From what I can understand, the patent was deemed invalid... but only after RIM settled, so too late for them. But it should put the brakes on this patent troll. Is there any scriptural evidence to suggest that lawyers are minions of Satan? On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > Yup.....just posted on this. Pretty much every smartphone > manufacturer is being sued. There is hope though....they were suing > Palm for the same thing, but the court has put it on hold. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 9 19:30:32 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:30:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C37B118.6030409@bibleseven.com> That was good for a belly-laugh! > Peter B. Steiger wrote: > > Is there any scriptural evidence to suggest that lawyers are minions > of Satan? -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri Jul 9 19:35:41 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:35:41 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C37B24D.6070807@staggs.net> You mean other than: Luke 11:46 (KJV) 46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers. -- bstaggs <>< On 7/9/2010 6:27 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > I was just reading about this on Slashdot. From what I can > understand, the patent was deemed invalid... but only after RIM > settled, so too late for them. But it should put the brakes on this > patent troll. > > Is there any scriptural evidence to suggest that lawyers are minions > of Satan? > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Joel Mclaughlin > wrote: > > Yup.....just posted on this. Pretty much every smartphone > manufacturer is being sued. There is hope though....they were suing > Palm for the same thing, but the court has put it on hold. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 9 19:37:12 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 19:37:12 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: <4C37B24D.6070807@staggs.net> References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> <4C37B24D.6070807@staggs.net> Message-ID: <4C37B2A8.8060409@bibleseven.com> That may be better translated "theologians" or "denominational rule-makers" or "bishops" or "legalistic elders/deacons". > Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Luke 11:46 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From bstaggs at staggs.net Fri Jul 9 19:42:28 2010 From: bstaggs at staggs.net (Billy F. Staggs) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 18:42:28 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: <4C37B2A8.8060409@bibleseven.com> References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> <4C37B24D.6070807@staggs.net> <4C37B2A8.8060409@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C37B3E4.1020107@staggs.net> Yes, I just found a certain humor in the thought.....it's getting late. :-) -- bstaggs <>< On 7/9/2010 6:37 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > That may be better translated "theologians" or "denominational > rule-makers" or "bishops" or "legalistic elders/deacons". > > > Billy F. Staggs wrote: >> Luke 11:46 > From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 9 21:29:56 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:29:56 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Apple, Google, Microsoft and others have something in common; a lawsuit from NTP In-Reply-To: References: <4C375D96.7000400@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C37CD14.8080602@lightlink.com> On 07/09/2010 07:27 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: > I was just reading about this on Slashdot. From what I can > understand, the patent was deemed invalid... but only after RIM > settled, so too late for them. But it should put the brakes on this > patent troll. > > Is there any scriptural evidence to suggest that lawyers are minions > of Satan? > > On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 12:53 PM, Joel Mclaughlin > wrote: > > Yup.....just posted on this. Pretty much every smartphone > manufacturer is being sued. There is hope though....they were suing > Palm for the same thing, but the court has put it on hold. > Hehehehehe......no, but I understand why you ask. ;) Fred -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 9 21:28:18 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2010 21:28:18 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 36:1-43 (Saturday) Message-ID: <4C37CCB2.8040503@bibleseven.com> *Genesis 36:1-43 (Saturday)* The Descendants of Esau 36:1 What follows is the account of Esau (also known as Edom). 36:2 Esau took his wives from the Canaanites: Adah the daughter of Elon the Hittite, and Oholibamah the daughter of Anah and granddaughter of Zibeon the Hivite, 36:3 in addition to Basemath the daughter of Ishmael and sister of Nebaioth. 36:4 Adah bore Eliphaz to Esau, Basemath bore Reuel, 36:5 and Oholibamah bore Jeush, Jalam, and Korah. These were the sons of Esau who were born to him in the land of Canaan. 36:6 Esau took his wives, his sons, his daughters, all the people in his household, his livestock, his animals, and all his possessions which he had acquired in the land of Canaan and went to a land some distance away from Jacob his brother 36:7 because they had too many possessions to be able to stay together and the land where they had settled was not able to support them because of their livestock. 36:8 So Esau (also known as Edom) lived in the hill country of Seir. 36:9 This is the account of Esau, the father of the Edomites, in the hill country of Seir. 36:10 These were the names of Esau's sons: Eliphaz, the son of Esau's wife Adah, and Reuel, the son of Esau's wife Basemath. 36:11 The sons of Eliphaz were: Teman, Omar, Zepho, Gatam, and Kenaz. 36:12 Timna, a concubine of Esau's son Eliphaz, bore Amalek to Eliphaz. These were the sons of Esau's wife Adah. 36:13 These were the sons of Reuel: Nahath, Zerah, Shammah, and Mizzah. These were the sons of Esau's wife Basemath. 36:14 These were the sons of Esau's wife Oholibamah the daughter of Anah and granddaughter of Zibeon: She bore Jeush, Jalam, and Korah to Esau. 36:15 These were the chiefs among the descendants of Esau, the sons of Eliphaz, Esau's firstborn: chief Teman, chief Omar, chief Zepho, chief Kenaz, 36:16 chief Korah, chief Gatam, chief Amalek. These were the chiefs descended from Eliphaz in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Adah. 36:17 These were the sons of Esau's son Reuel: chief Nahath, chief Zerah, chief Shammah, chief Mizzah. These were the chiefs descended from Reuel in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Esau's wife Basemath. 36:18 These were the sons of Esau's wife Oholibamah: chief Jeush, chief Jalam, chief Korah. These were the chiefs descended from Esau's wife Oholibamah, the daughter of Anah. 36:19 These were the sons of Esau (also known as Edom), and these were their chiefs. 36:20 These were the sons of Seir the Horite, who were living in the land: Lotan, Shobal, Zibeon, Anah, 36:21 Dishon, Ezer, and Dishan. These were the chiefs of the Horites, the descendants of Seir in the land of Edom. 36:22 The sons of Lotan were Hori and Homam; Lotan's sister was Timna. 36:23 These were the sons of Shobal: Alvan, Manahath, Ebal, Shepho, and Onam. 36:24 These were the sons of Zibeon: Aiah and Anah (who discovered the hot springs in the wilderness as he pastured the donkeys of his father Zibeon). 36:25 These were the children of Anah: Dishon and Oholibamah, the daughter of Anah. 36:26 These were the sons of Dishon: Hemdan, Eshban, Ithran, and Keran. 36:27 These were the sons of Ezer: Bilhan, Zaavan, and Akan. 36:28 These were the sons of Dishan: Uz and Aran. 36:29 These were the chiefs of the Horites: chief Lotan, chief Shobal, chief Zibeon, chief Anah, 36:30 chief Dishon, chief Ezer, chief Dishan. These were the chiefs of the Horites, according to their chief lists in the land of Seir. 36:31 These were the kings who reigned in the land of Edom before any king ruled over the Israelites: 36:32 Bela the son of Beor reigned in Edom; the name of his city was Dinhabah. 36:33 When Bela died, Jobab the son of Zerah from Bozrah reigned in his place. 36:34 When Jobab died, Husham from the land of the Temanites reigned in his place. 36:35 When Husham died, Hadad the son of Bedad, who defeated the Midianites in the land of Moab, reigned in his place; the name of his city was Avith. 36:36 When Hadad died, Samlah from Masrekah reigned in his place. 36:37 When Samlah died, Shaul from Rehoboth by the River reigned in his place. 36:38 When Shaul died, Baal-Hanan the son of Achbor reigned in his place. 36:39 When Baal-Hanan the son of Achbor died, Hadad reigned in his place; the name of his city was Pau. His wife's name was Mehetabel, the daughter of Matred, the daughter of Me-Zahab. 36:40 These were the names of the chiefs of Esau, according to their families, according to their places, by their names: chief Timna, chief Alvah, chief Jetheth, 36:41 chief Oholibamah, chief Elah, chief Pinon, 36:42 chief Kenaz, chief Teman, chief Mibzar, 36:43 chief Magdiel, chief Iram. These were the chiefs of Edom, according to their settlements in the land they possessed. This was Esau, the father of the Edomites. * Prayer:* Lord, Your Word is always true, so even though there was confusion and rebellion in the House of Issac Your promise to bless his children extended to Esau. *Commentary* Just as Abraham had experienced before them Esau and Jacob's large herds of animals could not be managed in close proximity -- so Esau again moved away from his family into Seir where he became "the father of the Edomites". The descendants of Esau are provided as a testimony of God's faithfulness to His promise to bless the children of Issac. *Interaction* *Consider this:* According to http://bible.org the Edomites are referenced 39 times in the Old Testament, often in conflict with the "Tribes of Israel" Gen: 36:9, 36:43; Num: 34:3 ; Deu: 2:4 23:7, 23:8 ; Jdg: 1:36 ; 1Sa: 14:47 21:7 22:9 22:18 22:22 ; 2Sa: 8:13 8:14 ; 1Ki: 11:1 11:14; 11:17 ; 2Ki: 8:20 8:21 14:7 16:6 24:2 ; 1Ch: 18:12 18:13 ; 2Ch: 21:8 21:9 21:10 25:11 25:14 25:19 28:17 ; Psa: 52:1 60:1 83:6 137:7 ; Jer: 9:26 49:19 49:22 ; Eze: 16:57 *Discuss this:* While Esau had apparently forgiven Jacob the text does not imply that their relationship warmed. Damaged relationships may often be reconciled, where the conflict ceases, but not restored, where affection and fellowship are intimate. *Reflect on this:* Choices have consequences and the one that led to Esau at odds with his brother Jacob led to generations of conflict among their descendants. *Share this:* When have you experienced of observed a relationship that had been seriously troubled where the two people reconciled but did not restore to an intimacy one might expect; be it siblings, a couple (men and women previously married or close to it), or business or minstry partners, etc.? *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you might both reconcile and restore a broken relationship, and if not possible to restore to clarify the "why". *Action:* I will prayerfully partner with the Holy Spirit to be made aware of a previously broken relationship which He wants healed. I will seek reconciliation and restoration, but only with the wise counsel of a Biblical elder, so that I neither rush things or force them beyond what the Lord declares to be right and safe. *Be Specific* ______________________________________________________________________ /*Sunday's text will be: Genesis *//*37:1-11*/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Jul 10 17:03:04 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 10 Jul 2010 17:03:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Genesis 37:1-11 (Sunday) Message-ID: <4C38E008.3040005@bibleseven.com> *BibleSeven Bible Study and Devotion* *Genesis Thirty-Seven - Forty* *Commentary -- Interaction -- Faith in Action* /Chapters One and Two presented the Creation narrative with different emphasis./ /Chapter Three described Adam and Eve's horribly wrong choice and the devastating consequences./ /Chapter Four described early life after Eden./ /Chapters Five and Six describes the terrible failure of humankind to seek after God and His decision to destroy life on the earth and restart with a Noadic remnant./ /Chapters Seven and Eight conclude the Ark story./ /Chapters Nine and Ten contain God's early instructions to the survivors of the Flood, the sin of Ham, and the future genealogies of the descendants of Noah's sons./ /Chapters Eleven, Twelve, and Thirteen describe the dispersal of the nations, Abram's travels, the kidnapping of Sarai, and the parting of Abram and Lot./ /Chapters Fourteen and Fifteen; Abram given victory in battle rescuing Lot, and the covenant is presented by God./ /Chapters Sixteen and Seventeen; Ishmael is born, covenant with Abraham further clarified, male circumcision required./ /Chapters Eighteen and Nineteen; the promise of a son for Abraham and Sarah renewed, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, and Lot's escape./ /Chapters Twenty to Twenty-Three; Abraham and Abimelech , The Birth of Isaac , The Sacrifice of Isaac , The Death of Sarah / /Chapters Twenty-Four to Twenty-Five; The Wife for Isaac, The Death of Abraham, The Sons of Ishmael, Jacob and Esau/ /Chapters Twenty-Six to Twenty-Eight; Isaac and Abimelech, Jacob Cheats Esau out of the Blessing, / /Jacob's Dream at Bethel/ /Chapters Twenty-Nine to Thirty-One; The Marriages of Jacob , The Family of Jacob , The Flocks of Jacob , Jacob's Flight from Laban/ /Chapters Thirty-two to Thirty-Six; Jacob Wrestles at Peniel, Jacob Meets Esau, Dinah and the Shechemites, The Return to Bethel, The Descendants of Esau/ *Genesis 37:1-11 (Sunday)* Joseph's Dreams 37:1 But Jacob lived in the land where his father had stayed, in the land of Canaan. 37:2 This is the account of Jacob. Joseph, his seventeen-year-old son, was taking care of the flocks with his brothers. Now he was a youngster working with the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah, his father's wives. Joseph brought back a bad report about them to their father. 37:3 Now Israel loved Joseph more than all his sons because he was a son born to him late in life, and he made a special tunic for him. 37:4 When Joseph's brothers saw that their father loved him more than any of them, they hated Joseph and were not able to speak to him kindly. 37:5 Joseph had a dream, and when he told his brothers about it, they hated him even more. 37:6 He said to them, "Listen to this dream I had: 37:7 There we were, binding sheaves of grain in the middle of the field. Suddenly my sheaf rose up and stood upright and your sheaves surrounded my sheaf and bowed down to it!" 37:8 Then his brothers asked him, "Do you really think you will rule over us or have dominion over us?" They hated him even more because of his dream and because of what he said. 37:9 Then he had another dream, and told it to his brothers. "Look," he said. "I had another dream. The sun, the moon, and eleven stars were bowing down to me." 37:10 When he told his father and his brothers, his father rebuked him, saying, "What is this dream that you had? Will I, your mother, and your brothers really come and bow down to you?" 37:11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept in mind what Joseph said. *Prayer:* Lord, when we play-favorites among children, or anyone else with whom we should have equally-loving relationships, we sow the seeds of jealousy. Help me to be appropriately balanced in all of my relationships. *Commentary* Genesis 36:1-43 recorded the descendants of Esau, and now the text turns to Jacob, who "... lived in the land where his father had stayed, in the land of Canaan." At the age of seventeen Joseph would have been working in the fields for many years but was now old enough to be trusted to travel about independently. He observes the sons of Bilhah, his brothers Dan and Naphtali, and the sons of Zilpah, Gad and Asher, and determines that they were not giving his father Jacob a full days work -- so he brings that report to his father. Despite the trouble caused by Issac's preferential treatment of Esau and Rebekah's preference for Jacob, Jacob repeats their error and is obvious in his preference for Joseph -- this angers his brothers. Joseph broadcasting his dreams about authority over his older brothers, parents, and more adds to their anger. *Interaction* *Consider this:* Jacob has exhibited poor judgment throughout his life, always because he was not listening to God, so once again he behaves impetuously and irresponsibly and the result is conflict. *Discuss this:* Why would anyone not expect anger and jealousy when someone who should be a peer, indeed should be submitted to his elder brothers, is instead arbitrarily treated with favoritism. When Joseph brought a bad report against some of his brothers, even with the good intention of loyalty to his father, might he not have been surprised that they were angry? *Reflect on this:* Knowing that his brothers were already hostile might Joseph have shared his dreams only with his father? *Share this:* When have you experienced and/or observed favoritism among people who should be peers-in-relationship? What was the result? *Faith in Action* *Prayer:* Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be imbalanced in your treatment of peers. *Action:* I will accept what the Holy Spirit shows me, perhaps affirmed through a Biblical "elder", and immediately act to restore balance. *Be Specific* __________________________________________________________ */Monday's text will be: Genesis 37:12-36/ * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Jul 12 16:24:23 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 16:24:23 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday Genesis 37:12-36 Message-ID: <4C3B79F7.9030807@bibleseven.com> *Monday* /_Genesis 37:12-36_/ 37:12 When his brothers had gone to graze their father's flocks near Shechem, 37:13 Israel said to Joseph, "Your brothers are grazing the flocks near Shechem. Come, I will send you to them." "I'm ready," Joseph replied. 37:14 So Jacob said to him, "Go now and check on the welfare of your brothers and of the flocks, and bring me word." So Jacob sent him from the valley of Hebron. 37:15 When Joseph reached Shechem, a man found him wandering in the field, so the man asked him, "What are you looking for?" 37:16 He replied, "I'm looking for my brothers. Please tell me where they are grazing their flocks." 37:17 The man said, "They left this area, for I heard them say, 'Let's go to Dothan.'" So Joseph went after his brothers and found them at Dothan. 37:18 Now Joseph's brothers saw him from a distance, and before he reached them, they plotted to kill him. 37:19 They said to one another, "Here comes this master of dreams! 37:20 Come now, let's kill him, throw him into one of the cisterns, and then say that a wild animal ate him. Then we'll see how his dreams turn out!" 37:21 When Reuben heard this, he rescued Joseph from their hands, saying, "Let's not take his life!" 37:22 Reuben continued, "Don't shed blood! Throw him into this cistern that is here in the wilderness, but don't lay a hand on him." (Reuben said this so he could rescue Joseph from them and take him back to his father.) 37:23 When Joseph reached his brothers, they stripped him of his tunic, the special tunic that he wore. 37:24 Then they took him and threw him into the cistern. (Now the cistern was empty; there was no water in it.) 37:25 When they sat down to eat their food, they looked up and saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead. Their camels were carrying spices, balm, and myrrh down to Egypt. 37:26 Then Judah said to his brothers, "What profit is there if we kill our brother and cover up his blood? 37:27 Come, let's sell him to the Ishmaelites, but let's not lay a hand on him, for after all, he is our brother, our own flesh." His brothers agreed. 37:28 So when the Midianite merchants passed by, Joseph's brothers pulled him out of the cistern and sold him to the Ishmaelites for twenty pieces of silver. The Ishmaelites then took Joseph to Egypt. 37:29 Later Reuben returned to the cistern to find that Joseph was not in it! He tore his clothes, 37:30 returned to his brothers, and said, "The boy isn't there! And I, where can I go?" 37:31 So they took Joseph's tunic, killed a young goat, and dipped the tunic in the blood. 37:32 Then they brought the special tunic to their father and said, "We found this. Determine now whether it is your son's tunic or not." 37:33 He recognized it and exclaimed, "It is my son's tunic! A wild animal has eaten him! Joseph has surely been torn to pieces!" 37:34 Then Jacob tore his clothes, put on sackcloth, and mourned for his son many days. 37:35 All his sons and daughters stood by him to console him, but he refused to be consoled. "No," he said, "I will go to the grave mourning my son." So Joseph's father wept for him. 37:36 Now in Egypt the Midianites sold Joseph to Potiphar, one of Pharaoh's officials, the captain of the guard. /_Prayer_/ Lord, may I learn from this story of the greed and jealousy of Joseph's brothers to not be likewise motivated from my selfish and shallow flesh. /_Commentary_/ The feeding of large herds would have required that the shepherds move from field to field across many miles. They could be gone for days or weeks at a time. Jacob/Israel sent Joseph to check on his brothers and to return with a report as to their "welfare". They were not where he expected but had moved on to Dothan. Joseph's brothers see him coming and plot to kill him, hide his body, and report him as killed and eaten by a "wild animal". Reuben persuades them to throw him into a dry cistern (shallow well) instead as he planned to sneak back and rescue him -- not out of love -- he didn't want Joseph's blood on his hands. Reuben apparently left them and while he was away his brothers spotted a band of Midianite merchants, Ismaelites (now know as Arabs) and sold Joseph into slavery for 20 pieces of silver. Joseph was resold in Egypt. When Reuben returned and discovered what they had done he was desperate and allowed them to draw him into their scheme to deceive their father Jacob/Israel into believing Joseph dead. Jacob/Israel vowed to go to his grave still mourning for Joseph. /_Interaction_/ Consider this: In the midst of their jealousy, acted-out in such a hateful manner, the brothers of Joseph did not forget to be greedy. Judas later sold-out Jesus, also for 20 pieces of silver. Discuss this: Have you ever been so angry with someone, or so jealous of them, that you plotted in your mind a way to "get rid of them"? What did you do? If you did not act on your plot, what was it that stopped you? If you did act on it in some way was your action restrained by someone or something? Reflect on this: Reuben had violated an important tradition when he slept with Bilhah, his father's concubine, and he failed to demand that his brothers not harm Joseph in any way - so there was a pattern of poor choices in his life. Share this: When have you observed others doing the wrong thing and because you were somehow sympathetic with their feelings you failed to challenge them to do the right thing before God, rather than to follow their flesh? /_Faith in Action_/ Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you where greed or jealously or some other weakness has (or is) lead (leading) you to commit acts of evil against others or to condone them when committed by others. Action: I agree to not merely acknowledge that I make poor choices based on greed or jealousy or the fear to confront evil in others but to act upon it in the area(s) that the Holy Spirit reveals to me. I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement with me for courage and wisdom and to hold me accountable. Be Specific _______________________________________________________ *Tuesday's text will be: * /_Genesis 38:1-11_/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Jul 12 21:51:23 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2010 21:51:23 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday Genesis 38:1-11 Message-ID: <4C3BC69B.2000704@bibleseven.com> *Tuesday* /_Genesis 38:1-11_/ Judah and Tamar 38:1 At that time Judah left his brothers and stayed with an Adullamite man named Hirah. 38:2 There Judah saw the daughter of a Canaanite man named Shua. Judah acquired her as a wife and had marital relations with her. 38:3 She became pregnant and had a son. Judah named him Er. 38:4 She became pregnant again and had another son, whom she named Onan. 38:5 Then she had yet another son, whom she named Shelah. She gave birth to him in Kezib. 38:6 Judah acquired a wife for Er his firstborn; her name was Tamar. 38:7 But Er, Judah's firstborn, was evil in the Lord's sight, so the Lord killed him. 38:8 Then Judah said to Onan, "Have sexual relations with your brother's wife and fulfill the duty of a brother-in-law to her so that you may raise up a descendant for your brother." 38:9 But Onan knew that the child would not be considered his. So whenever he had sexual relations with his brother's wife, he withdrew prematurely so as not to give his brother a descendant. 38:10 What he did was evil in the Lord's sight, so the Lord killed him too. 38:11 Then Judah said to his daughter-in-law Tamar, "Live as a widow in your father's house until Shelah my son grows up." For he thought, "I don't want him to die like his brothers." So Tamar went and lived in her father's house. /_Prayer_/ Lord, when we join with evil the result is usually evil. May I be found faithful in consulting you before joining in business, ministry, and/or personal relationship with others. /_Commentary_/ After selling their brother Joseph into slavery, and then covering-up by deceiving their father Jacob/Israel into believing Joseph was dead, Judah separates himself from his brothers and marries a Canaanite, something the Lord God had previously forbidden. Judah had three sons and as was traditional he found a wife named Tamar for his first son, Er. But God found him to be evil and killed him. Judah, as was traditional, required his second son to sleep with her in order to give her a son so as to carry-on his brother's line -- but Onan was selfish as he knew the son would not be considered his own -- and therefore he would not himself inherit Er's blessings as the first born. So Onan deliberately acted to keep her from getting pregnant. God saw that as evil and killed him. Judah, down to the last of three sons asked Tamar to live elsewhere while Shelah grew up enough to be available for marriage. Judah's true motivation was a superstitious fear that Tamar was somehow the cause of the deaths of Er and Onan and he wanted to protect Shelah. Tamar believed him and agreed to live apart for a while. /_Interaction_/ Consider this: Judah's sons were half-Canaanite and Tamar likely Canaanite, therefore their children would be three-quarters Canaanite, that culture was pagan. Discuss this: Er ... was evil in the Lord's sight...", but it was Onan's disobedience and selfishness that was "... was evil in the Lord's sight", what is the difference? Reflect on this: Twice the Lord intervened and punished evil, killing the two sons, yet Judah does not appear to consult God but instead deceives Tamar to protect his son. Share this: When have you ever been fearful and reacted defensively without first consulting God? /_Faith in Action_/ Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you where you may be making choices out of fear without first consulting God. Action: I agree to a prayerful review of my life for any places where I am acting self-protectively without consulting God -- thereby risking further trouble. I will bring those matters before God, together with a fellow believer who will pray in-agreement with me, and will allow God to direct my choices. Be Specific ________________________________________________________ *Wednesday's text will be: */_Genesis 38:12-30_/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 13 18:54:42 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 18:54:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday Genesis 38:12-30 Message-ID: <4C3CEEB2.8090201@bibleseven.com> *Wednesday* /_Genesis 38:12-30_/ 38:12 After some time Judah's wife, the daughter of Shua, died. After Judah was consoled, he left for Timnah to visit his sheepshearers, along with his friend Hirah the Adullamite. 38:13 Tamar was told, "Look, your father-in-law is going up to Timnah to shear his sheep." 38:14 So she removed her widow's clothes and covered herself with a veil. She wrapped herself and sat at the entrance to Enaim which is on the way to Timnah. (She did this because she saw that she had not been given to Shelah as a wife, even though he had now grown up.) 38:15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute because she had covered her face. 38:16 He turned aside to her along the road and said, "Come on! I want to have sex with you." (He did not realize it was his daughter-in-law.) She asked, "What will you give me in exchange for having sex with you?" 38:17 He replied, "I'll send you a young goat from the flock." She asked, "Will you give me a pledge until you send it?" 38:18 He said, "What pledge should I give you?" She replied, "Your seal, your cord, and the staff that's in your hand." So he gave them to her and had sex with her. She became pregnant by him. 38:19 She left immediately, removed her veil, and put on her widow's clothes. 38:20 Then Judah had his friend Hirah the Adullamite take a young goat to get back from the woman the items he had given in pledge, but Hirah could not find her. 38:21 He asked the men who were there, "Where is the cult prostitute who was at Enaim by the road?" But they replied, "There has been no cult prostitute here." 38:22 So he returned to Judah and said, "I couldn't find her. Moreover, the men of the place said, 'There has been no cult prostitute here.'" 38:23 Judah said, "Let her keep the things for herself. Otherwise we will appear to be dishonest. I did indeed send this young goat, but you couldn't find her." 38:24 After three months Judah was told, "Your daughter-in-law Tamar has turned to prostitution, and as a result she has become pregnant." Judah said, "Bring her out and let her be burned!" 38:25 While they were bringing her out, she sent word to her father-in-law: "I am pregnant by the man to whom these belong." Then she said, "Identify the one to whom the seal, cord, and staff belong." 38:26 Judah recognized them and said, "She is more upright than I am, because I wouldn't give her to Shelah my son." He did not have sexual relations with her again. 38:27 When it was time for her to give birth, there were twins in her womb. 38:28 While she was giving birth, one child put out his hand, and the midwife took a scarlet thread and tied it on his hand, saying, "This one came out first." 38:29 But then he drew back his hand, and his brother came out before him. She said, "How you have broken out of the womb!" So he was named Perez. 38:30 Afterward his brother came out -- the one who had the scarlet thread on his hand -- and he was named Zerah. /_Prayer_/ Lord, may I obey Your Holy Spirit when He warns me that even a small deceit on my part can lead others to deceive as well -- and what I thought I had accomplished in the moment may easily become a greater hassle than I imagined I was avoiding. /_Commentary_/ Judah buried and mourned his wife and then decided to travel with his friend to Timnah where the sheep were being sheared. Tamar, left waiting long after Judah's third son Shelah was old enough to give her a son in the name of her dead husband Er, decides that Judah is vulnerable to a trick. Tamar disguises herself along the road to Timnah and as she suspected Judah mistakes her for the cult prostitute and propositions her. He offers her a goat in exchange for sex, but does not have one with her, so she requests his "... seal, cord, and staff" as collateral to assure that he will keep his promise. When Tamar later is found to be pregnant Judah intends to punish her until she proves, with his "... seal, cord, and staff", that the child is his. She had twins, with the curious twist of the first to partially leave the womb retreating and the second to be fully-birthed before the first finally came out, perhaps an echo of Jacob and Esau. /_Interaction_/ Consider this: Following in the pattern of his father Jacob/Israel's mutually-deceitful relationship with Laban, Judah became ensnared in one with Tamar. Discuss this: Judah had in some way or ways "taught" Tamar that he would be vulnerable to the appeal of a cult prostitute. Perhaps it was something he said during his mourning for his wife, perhaps she had observed him being unfaithful in the past, perhaps it was just the deceitful way he had dealt with her. How have people "taught" you that they would be vulnerable to certain temptations? Reflect on this: The promise Tamar wanted kept by Judah was not a goat for sex but a child by Judah's son Shelah to continue the line of Er (which would also entitle her to Er's inheritance). She bore instead twins by Judah whose standing would have been somewhat equal to that of Shelah. Share this: When have you observed someone treating another unfairly then being themselves ensnared in an equally disrespectful and unloving manner, either by the one they had mistreated, or by another? /_Faith in Action_/ Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any place in your life where your actions and/or words might be "teaching" observers that you are vulnerable to temptation. Action: I will prayerfully listen to the Holy Spirit as He shows me what it is that I say and/or do that conveys the message of my vulnerability to specific temptation(s). It may be crude and crass humor about romantic relationship, a lust for money or power, a predisposition toward "experience" (needing emotional stimulation), a predisposition to danger "adrenaline junkie", dressing provocatively, a need to "keep up with the Joneses", a pattern of making idols of celebrities (the physically-attractive, sports stars, entertainers, the rich, the powerful, etc.). I will confess and repent of those things and submit them to the Holy Spirit for purging. I will ask at least one fellow believer to help me in monitoring my actions and/or words for any sign of their return. Be Specific ____________________________________________________ *Thursday's text will be: */_Genesis 39:1-10_/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shengchieh at linuxmail.org Wed Jul 14 14:24:26 2010 From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:24:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com><4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> Message-ID: <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Can you use an online word processor like ZohoWriter, google doc, buzzword, ajax, etc. If you want links, yell - I have many of them. -----Original Message----- From: Joel Mclaughlin To: Linux for Christians Sent: Thu, Jul 8, 2010 11:51 am Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question Never used it, but I bet it's the same. Portable apps (like you can put on a thumb drive) aren't really as popular on Linux as Windows. Can you do it? Sure. Do you want to or need too? Not really as long as you have X you don't really need a portable app. Just run it on your desktop remotely and scp the results back. On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 2:43 PM, Billy F. Staggs wrote: > Since some of you use Open Office, I was wonder how the portable version > compare with the locally installed version. Anyone have any experience with > the portable version? > > Thanks, > > -- > bstaggs <>< > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 14:26:24 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:26:24 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com><4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> Doesn't that put all of your documents into the public domain, whether you want them there or not? > shengchieh at linuxmail.org wrote: > Can you use an online word processor like ZohoWriter, google doc, > buzzword, > ajax, etc. If you want links, yell - I have many of them. -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From shengchieh at linuxmail.org Wed Jul 14 14:30:37 2010 From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:30:37 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video Message-ID: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Greeting in the name of our Lord! I'm investigating on using live video for the services, i.e., someone uses a videocam to shoot the speaker, etc. I already looked at some sites like twitcam, justin.tv, livevideo.com, ustream, stickam, streamfaith, videochurch.org, christian.tv, Red5, IceCast, videoLan, MPEG4IP, BroadCam, broadcaster.com, Metacafe, dailymotion, and a bunch of others. I also tried using twitcam w/o success - the linux version of flash is buggy. I'm trying to decide what is the best and easy way to do live video, i.e., should I do it with a social networking like twitcam, a html program, VLC, java, javascript, python, perl, etc. I already ruled out many social networking sites because I don't want to direct people to "shady" sites. I also rule out a "Facebook variant" because Facebook has privacy issues - don't want to direct people to Facebook. Furthermore, I ruled out some Christian networking companies due to budget constraint - my church recently let a staff member go. I prefer a method that is multi-OS (linux and window). What are your thoughts? Easier and better using a certain program or language, or use a social networking site (which one?)? Sheng-Chieh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gorkon at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 14:35:01 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:35:01 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video In-Reply-To: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Video on web means flash even for Linux users currently. Or maybe HTML5 but that would be too limiting for a Church so flash it is. What about Qik.com?? There's plugins for Facebook and more so if your church has a Facebook page, you can stream right to it, On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > Greeting in the name of our Lord! > > I'm investigating on using live video for the services, > i.e., someone uses a videocam to shoot the speaker, etc. > > I already looked at some sites like > twitcam, justin.tv, livevideo.com, ustream, stickam, > streamfaith, videochurch.org, christian.tv, Red5, IceCast, > videoLan, MPEG4IP, BroadCam, broadcaster.com, Metacafe, > dailymotion, and a bunch of others.? I also tried using > twitcam w/o success - the linux version of flash is buggy. > > I'm trying to decide what is the best and easy way to do > live video, i.e., should I do it with a social networking > like twitcam, a html program, VLC, java, javascript, > python, perl, etc.? I already ruled out many social > networking sites because I don't want to direct people to > "shady" sites.? I also rule out a "Facebook variant" > because Facebook has privacy issues - don't want to direct > people to Facebook.?? Furthermore, I ruled out some > Christian networking companies due to budget constraint > - my church recently let a staff member go. > > I prefer a method that is multi-OS (linux and window). > What are your thoughts?? Easier and better using a > certain program or language, or use a social networking > site (which one?)? > > Sheng-Chieh > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From chess.griffin at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 14:34:54 2010 From: chess.griffin at gmail.com (Chess Griffin) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:34:54 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: Using Google Docs does not put your docs into the public domain. By default, your docs are marked private. You can make them publically-available. However, even in that instance, you still retain copyright unless you specifically make them available into the public domain. I use many of the portable apps on my Windows machines at work and by and large they work very well (and identical to the Linux versions). I have not tried the OO.o portable app specifically, though. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Doesn't that put all of your documents into the public domain, > whether you want them there or not? > >> shengchieh at linuxmail.org wrote: >> >> Can you use an online word processor like ZohoWriter, google doc, >> buzzword, >> ajax, etc. ? If you want links, yell - I have many of them. > > -- > > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! ?Pastor David > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Chess Griffin From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 14:55:50 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 14:55:50 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video In-Reply-To: References: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4C3E0836.2070206@bibleseven.com> Is Flash required to stream mp4 video? > Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > Video on web means flash even for Linux users currently. Or maybe > HTML5 but that would be too limiting for a Church so flash it is. > What about Qik.com?? There's plugins for Facebook and more so if your > church has a Facebook page, you can stream right to it, > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 15:05:59 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:05:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video In-Reply-To: <4C3E0836.2070206@bibleseven.com> References: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0836.2070206@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C3E0A97.2080706@bibleseven.com> Seems it is per this site: http://h264.code-shop.com/trac A variety of video encoders here: http://www.topshareware.com/video-encoder-flash/downloads/1.htm This may be helpful: http://www.videolan.org/ > Is Flash required to stream mp4 video? > > > Joel Mclaughlin wrote: >> Video on web means flash even for Linux users currently. Or maybe >> HTML5 but that would be too limiting for a Church so flash it is. >> What about Qik.com?? There's plugins for Facebook and more so if your >> church has a Facebook page, you can stream right to it, > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 15:09:28 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:09:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> Given their track record and the number of government and private lawsuits against Google for privacy-invasion all over the world I would hardly have any confidence in their assurance of privacy. The "cloud" remains a high-risk endeavor for anyone who is serious about privacy and/or security. BTW: I just set up OpenDNS for Content Filtering - seems to work well and the Basic version is free. Anyone using it? Have you observed any problems? > Chess Griffin wrote: > Using Google Docs does not put your docs into the public domain. By > default, your docs are marked private. You can make them > publically-available. However, even in that instance, you still > retain copyright unless you specifically make them available into the > public domain. > > I use many of the portable apps on my Windows machines at work and by > and large they work very well (and identical to the Linux versions). > I have not tried the OO.o portable app specifically, though. > > On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com > wrote: > >> Doesn't that put all of your documents into the public domain, >> whether you want them there or not? >> -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From chess.griffin at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 15:25:47 2010 From: chess.griffin at gmail.com (Chess Griffin) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:25:47 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:09 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > BTW: ?I just set up OpenDNS for Content Filtering - seems to > work well and the Basic version is free. > > Anyone using it? > > Have you observed any problems? > I am using it at home since I've got two young kids that sometimes use the computer and it has been working very well. No issues encountered thus far. -- Chess Griffin From gorkon at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 15:59:50 2010 From: gorkon at gmail.com (Joel Mclaughlin) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:59:50 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: I disagree a little on that with a caveat. The cloud CAN be used securely if appropriate measures are taken and if you trust your cloud provider. For example, there are services that will let you backup to the cloud like Mozy. Also, a large part of web 2.0 companies use Amazon S3 for storage. Using the cloud is only high risk if you don't know what you are doing. If you are new to the web game or computers in general, the cloud isn't for you. If you are comfortable with computers and know the risks, then you can safely use the cloud for almost anything. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:09 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Given their track record and the number of government and private > lawsuits against Google for privacy-invasion all over the world I > would hardly have any confidence in their assurance of privacy. > > The "cloud" remains a high-risk endeavor for anyone who is > serious about privacy and/or security. > > BTW: ?I just set up OpenDNS for Content Filtering - seems to > work well and the Basic version is free. > > Anyone using it? > > Have you observed any problems? > >> Chess Griffin wrote: >> >> Using Google Docs does not put your docs into the public domain. ?By >> default, your docs are marked private. ?You can make them >> publically-available. ?However, even in that instance, you still >> retain copyright unless you specifically make them available into the >> public domain. >> >> I use many of the portable apps on my Windows machines at work and by >> and large they work very well (and identical to the Linux versions). >> I have not tried the OO.o portable app specifically, though. >> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com >> ?wrote: >> >>> >>> Doesn't that put all of your documents into the public domain, >>> whether you want them there or not? >>> > > -- > > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! ?Pastor David > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com From chess.griffin at gmail.com Wed Jul 14 16:34:28 2010 From: chess.griffin at gmail.com (Chess Griffin) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:34:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Summa Theologiae via Twitter Message-ID: I don't use Twitter but I thought this was interesting: "@summatheologiae has set out to post an abridged version of St Thomas Aquinas' Summa Theologiae via Twitter. He explains: The goal: 1 article per weekday, broken up into a few tweets. I'll do my best to be brief & funny and inspire you to look up the original." http://the-hermeneutic-of-continuity.blogspot.com/2010/07/and-you-thought-twitter-was-pointless.html -- Chess Griffin From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 16:52:21 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 16:52:21 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Summa Theologiae via Twitter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3E2385.6010506@bibleseven.com> I don't know if Twitter is pointless, it depends how you use it. I avoid all of the social networking sites as much as possible because they are generally *a time-waster*. Posting Christian materials there is a good way to feed those who are on them with something more than the gossip and garbage that pervades those resources - to that end he is on the right track I suppose. http://bible.org has recently added Facebook to its outreach. I have an account due to a past church association but try to never log on any more! > Chess Griffin wrote: > I don't use Twitter but I thought this was interesting: > > "... and-you-thought-twitter-was-pointless" > > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From webservant at trinitybclaramie.org Wed Jul 14 17:58:29 2010 From: webservant at trinitybclaramie.org (Peter B. Steiger) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 15:58:29 -0600 Subject: [Linux4christians] Summa Theologiae via Twitter In-Reply-To: <4C3E2385.6010506@bibleseven.com> References: <4C3E2385.6010506@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: I finally gave in and created a Facebook account when I found out my son's army training unit (Ft. Benning) had a Facebook page, and I wanted every possible way of getting news from there. When I also discovered old friends that I regretted losing contact with, I stayed on after he graduated. I block all the stupid games and random strangers who try to add me to their friends list for who-knows-what bizarre reasons, but I do enjoy hearing news from distant friends about how their kids are doing and whatnot. Like you said, it's all about how you use the technology. I have witnessed on Facebook, in comic strip discussion forums, and in Second Life. Twitter, on the other hand... I doubt I will ever see a way that could be made useful in a way that other technology isn't better suited for. But hey, I'm just an old guy who thinks that cell phones exist for making phone calls, so what do I know? On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:52 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com < pastordavid at bibleseven.com> wrote: > I don't know if Twitter is pointless, it depends how you use it. > > I avoid all of the social networking sites as much as possible > because they are generally *a time-waster*. > > Posting Christian materials there is a good way to feed those > who are on them with something more than the gossip and > garbage that pervades those resources - to that end he is on > the right track I suppose. > > http://bible.org has recently added Facebook to its outreach. > I have an account due to a past church association but try to > never log on any more! > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 18:08:57 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 18:08:57 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Summa Theologiae via Twitter In-Reply-To: References: <4C3E2385.6010506@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C3E3579.3020301@bibleseven.com> Hey! Watch that "old guy" stuff ... 'cause I agree ... ;-) Then again, I do text on my cellphone now and then. Hmmm, maybe I am younger than I think? What was that song, "I used to be much older then, I'm younger than that now."? > Peter B. Steiger wrote: > But hey, I'm just an old guy who thinks that cell phones exist for > making phone calls, so what do I know? -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 14 20:45:59 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 20:45:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Oh boy......now this can conjure up all kinds of interesting scenarios!! 'COULD really be good for Linux! Message-ID: <4C3E5A47.8070609@lightlink.com> Microsoft turns over all Win7 and server source code to Russia's new KGB http://www.zdnet.com/blog/government/microsoft-turns-over-all-win7-and-server-source-code-to-russias-new-kgb/9191?tag=nl.e589 -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 14 21:46:41 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 21:46:41 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Summa Theologiae via Twitter In-Reply-To: References: <4C3E2385.6010506@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C3E6881.70801@lightlink.com> On 07/14/2010 05:58 PM, Peter B. Steiger wrote: [snip] > Twitter, on the other hand... I doubt I will ever see a way that could > be made useful in a way that other technology isn't better suited > for. But hey, I'm just an old guy who thinks that cell phones exist > for making phone calls, so what do I know? ANYTHING else on a cell phone is simply a solution looking for a problem, IMHO. ;) Fred -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shengchieh at linuxmail.org Wed Jul 14 22:19:28 2010 From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:19:28 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net><8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com><4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com><4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <8CCF1DB4978C77A-1398-12844@web-mmc-m06.sysops.aol.com> I believe there is a program (an't think of it) where the "cloud" is your (company's) server. In other words, your server has a word document and you use it online. Just took a few minutes to look for it - no success - maybe someone else knows???. -----Original Message----- From: Joel Mclaughlin To: pastordavid at bibleseven.com; Linux for Christians Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2010 12:59 pm Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question I disagree a little on that with a caveat. The cloud CAN be used securely if appropriate measures are taken and if you trust your cloud provider. For example, there are services that will let you backup to the cloud like Mozy. Also, a large part of web 2.0 companies use Amazon S3 for storage. Using the cloud is only high risk if you don't know what you are doing. If you are new to the web game or computers in general, the cloud isn't for you. If you are comfortable with computers and know the risks, then you can safely use the cloud for almost anything. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:09 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Given their track record and the number of government and private > lawsuits against Google for privacy-invasion all over the world I > would hardly have any confidence in their assurance of privacy. > > The "cloud" remains a high-risk endeavor for anyone who is > serious about privacy and/or security. > > BTW: I just set up OpenDNS for Content Filtering - seems to > work well and the Basic version is free. > > Anyone using it? > > Have you observed any problems? > >> Chess Griffin wrote: >> >> Using Google Docs does not put your docs into the public domain. By >> default, your docs are marked private. You can make them >> publically-available. However, even in that instance, you still >> retain copyright unless you specifically make them available into the >> public domain. >> >> I use many of the portable apps on my Windows machines at work and by >> and large they work very well (and identical to the Linux versions). >> I have not tried the OO.o portable app specifically, though. >> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Doesn't that put all of your documents into the public domain, >>> whether you want them there or not? >>> > > -- > > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shengchieh at linuxmail.org Wed Jul 14 22:24:08 2010 From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:24:08 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video In-Reply-To: References: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CCF1DBF04B4A6F-1398-12873@web-mmc-m06.sysops.aol.com> Thank for replying... Again I prefer not to direct people to Facebook - too much privacy issues. Twitter is okay, but I can't get twitcam working and camtweet is still in beta, but uses flash. Camera flash on linux OS is buggy. First you have to workaround permission problem. Second, flash has problems wiht internal camera (which my netbook has). Go ahead and try it (using linux) http://www.twitcam.com Sheng-Chieh -----Original Message----- From: Joel Mclaughlin To: Linux for Christians Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2010 11:35 am Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video Video on web means flash even for Linux users currently. Or maybe HTML5 but that would be too limiting for a Church so flash it is. What about Qik.com?? There's plugins for Facebook and more so if your church has a Facebook page, you can stream right to it, On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:30 PM, wrote: > Greeting in the name of our Lord! > > I'm investigating on using live video for the services, > i.e., someone uses a videocam to shoot the speaker, etc. > > I already looked at some sites like > twitcam, justin.tv, livevideo.com, ustream, stickam, > streamfaith, videochurch.org, christian.tv, Red5, IceCast, > videoLan, MPEG4IP, BroadCam, broadcaster.com, Metacafe, > dailymotion, and a bunch of others. I also tried using > twitcam w/o success - the linux version of flash is buggy. > > I'm trying to decide what is the best and easy way to do > live video, i.e., should I do it with a social networking > like twitcam, a html program, VLC, java, javascript, > python, perl, etc. I already ruled out many social > networking sites because I don't want to direct people to > "shady" sites. I also rule out a "Facebook variant" > because Facebook has privacy issues - don't want to direct > people to Facebook. Furthermore, I ruled out some > Christian networking companies due to budget constraint > - my church recently let a staff member go. > > I prefer a method that is multi-OS (linux and window). > What are your thoughts? Easier and better using a > certain program or language, or use a social networking > site (which one?)? > > Sheng-Chieh > > > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shengchieh at linuxmail.org Wed Jul 14 22:26:29 2010 From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:26:29 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video In-Reply-To: <4C3E0836.2070206@bibleseven.com> References: <8CCF199CA535FFE-EBC-FE44@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0836.2070206@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <8CCF1DC4450763B-1398-12889@web-mmc-m06.sysops.aol.com> I don't know. Someone else? All I know is I wish to avoid buggy flash if possible as well as not having to learn alot like java, javascript, python, etc. Sheng-Chieh -----Original Message----- From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com To: Linux for Christians Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2010 11:55 am Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] best way to do live video Is Flash required to stream mp4 video? > Joel Mclaughlin wrote: > Video on web means flash even for Linux users currently. Or maybe > HTML5 but that would be too limiting for a Church so flash it is. > What about Qik.com?? There's plugins for Facebook and more so if your > church has a Facebook page, you can stream right to it, > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 14 22:24:02 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:24:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday Genesis 39:1-10 Message-ID: <4C3E7142.8050702@bibleseven.com> *Thursday* /_Genesis 39:1-10_/ Joseph and Potiphar's Wife 39:1 Now Joseph had been brought down to Egypt. An Egyptian named Potiphar, an official of Pharaoh and the captain of the guard, purchased him from the Ishmaelites who had brought him there. 39:2 The Lord was with Joseph. He was successful and lived in the household of his Egyptian master. 39:3 His master observed that the Lord was with him and that the Lord made everything he was doing successful. 39:4 So Joseph found favor in his sight and became his personal attendant. Potiphar appointed Joseph overseer of his household and put him in charge of everything he owned. 39:5 From the time Potiphar appointed him over his household and over all that he owned, the Lord blessed the Egyptian's household for Joseph's sake. The blessing of the Lord was on everything that he had, both in his house and in his fields. 39:6 So Potiphar left everything he had in Joseph's care; he gave no thought to anything except the food he ate. Now Joseph was well built and good-looking. 39:7 Soon after these things, his master's wife took notice of Joseph and said, "Have sex with me." 39:8 But he refused, saying to his master's wife, "Look, my master does not give any thought to his household with me here, and everything that he owns he has put into my care. 39:9 There is no one greater in this household than I am. He has withheld nothing from me except you because you are his wife. So how could I do such a great evil and sin against God?" 39:10 Even though she continued to speak to Joseph day after day, he did not respond to her invitation to have sex with her. /_Prayer_/ Lord, may I be found as faithful to You as Joseph, not matter the cost or the fairness of the consequences. /_Commentary_/ While Joseph was a slave his strong work ethic overcame his fear and sadness and earned him the respect of his owner, Potiphar. The text draws attention to Joseph's concern for his diet, perhaps a precursor to those Hebrews who were later taken into slavery and who also requested special consideration for the foods they were served. Potipher's wife persistently attempted to seduce Joseph but he refused, citing both his loyalty to Potipher and to God -- noting that his sin would be against God and man. /_Interaction_/ Consider this: What Joseph's brothers meant for evil, which means they were unknowingly partnering with Satan, God turned to good in the life of Joseph. Discuss this: How different might Joseph's future have been had he ignored God and submitted to temptation? God blessed his obedience and later used him to save his people. Had Joseph failed God would have found another, perhaps Benjamin or Reuben. Reflect on this: Satan was not done with Joseph. He used his brother's greed and pride against them and now he uses Potipher's wife's lust to tempt him -- but because Joseph honored God Satan's attempted-temptation was never got that far -- it became a test which Joseph passed. Share this: When have you been confronted with an appealing and easy sin and chose to declare your obligation to neither sin against man or God? Or did you? What was the result of your choice? /_Faith in Action_/ Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where the Enemy is right now tempting you. Action: I will be honest with myself, and the Holy Spirit, and acknowledge the place or places in my life where He has revealed that I am being tempted. As necessary I will ask a fellow believer to pray in-agreement with me for the courage and wisdom to resist. I will also assert my authority as a child of God to instruct the Enemy (or his demonic emissary) to depart. I will testify to the human agent of temptation, where possible, my reasons for resisting (to not sin against God or man). Be Specific ______________________________________________________ *Friday's text will be: */_Genesis 39:11-23_/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From shengchieh at linuxmail.org Wed Jul 14 22:32:55 2010 From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org (shengchieh at linuxmail.org) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:32:55 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <8CCF1DB4978C77A-1398-12844@web-mmc-m06.sysops.aol.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com><4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net><8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com><4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com><4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> <8CCF1DB4978C77A-1398-12844@web-mmc-m06.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CCF1DD2A7EED0E-1398-128CC@web-mmc-m06.sysops.aol.com> Another possibility is have Oo (or whatever) on one of your computer. And add a remote login program. Then where you are, remote login and use Oo. Sheng-Chieh -----Original Message----- From: shengchieh at linuxmail.org To: linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2010 7:19 pm Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question I believe there is a program (an't think of it) where the "cloud" is your (company's) server. In other words, your server has a word document and you use it online. Just took a few minutes to look for it - no success - maybe someone else knows???. -----Original Message----- From: Joel Mclaughlin To: pastordavid at bibleseven.com; Linux for Christians Sent: Wed, Jul 14, 2010 12:59 pm Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question I disagree a little on that with a caveat. The cloud CAN be used securely if appropriate measures are taken and if you trust your cloud provider. For example, there are services that will let you backup to the cloud like Mozy. Also, a large part of web 2.0 companies use Amazon S3 for storage. Using the cloud is only high risk if you don't know what you are doing. If you are new to the web game or computers in general, the cloud isn't for you. If you are comfortable with computers and know the risks, then you can safely use the cloud for almost anything. On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 3:09 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: > Given their track record and the number of government and private > lawsuits against Google for privacy-invasion all over the world I > would hardly have any confidence in their assurance of privacy. > > The "cloud" remains a high-risk endeavor for anyone who is > serious about privacy and/or security. > > BTW: I just set up OpenDNS for Content Filtering - seems to > work well and the Basic version is free. > > Anyone using it? > > Have you observed any problems? > >> Chess Griffin wrote: >> >> Using Google Docs does not put your docs into the public domain. By >> default, your docs are marked private. You can make them >> publically-available. However, even in that instance, you still >> retain copyright unless you specifically make them available into the >> public domain. >> >> I use many of the portable apps on my Windows machines at work and by >> and large they work very well (and identical to the Linux versions). >> I have not tried the OO.o portable app specifically, though. >> >> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 2:26 PM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com >> wrote: >> >>> >>> Doesn't that put all of your documents into the public domain, >>> whether you want them there or not? >>> > > -- > > Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com > Bible Resources: http://bible.org > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > -- Joel McLaughlin Life in Ohio Podcast life.in.ohio.pod at gmail.com gorkon at gmail.com http://lifeinohio.libsyn.com joel at geardiary.com geardiary.com _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians _______________________________________________ Linux4christians mailing list Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hpp3 at lavabit.com Thu Jul 15 01:51:29 2010 From: hpp3 at lavabit.com (Eddy Martin) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2010 22:51:29 -0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenDNS - was OpenOffice Question In-Reply-To: <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: linux4christians-bounces at thelinuxlink.net [mailto:linux4christians- > bounces at thelinuxlink.net] On Behalf Of pastordavid at bibleseven.com > Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:09 PM > To: Chess Griffin > Cc: Linux for Christians > Subject: Re: [Linux4christians] OpenOffice Question > > Given their track record and the number of government and private > lawsuits against Google for privacy-invasion all over the world I > would hardly have any confidence in their assurance of privacy. > > The "cloud" remains a high-risk endeavor for anyone who is > serious about privacy and/or security. > > BTW: I just set up OpenDNS for Content Filtering - seems to > work well and the Basic version is free. > > Anyone using it? > > Have you observed any problems? I haven't experienced any problems *technically* (see below), in fact their service seems to have gotten better/faster over the last year or so. Fast lookups and the search redirect page loads much faster than it used to. In the filtering aspect, I don't see it as a be-all end-all, but simply one of the many layers I apply to keep out as much bad stuff as possible. I use ProconLatte installed in Firefox, whatever filters I can enable on my router, and OpenDNS filtering on the back end. Still, things CAN get through, whether by accident or a determined user. If you care to, just look through the forums where people report porn sites that are not blocked yet, there's still quite a few (although this doesn't surprise me considering the sheer QUANTITY of that garbage on the intertubes). Also, I've noticed most filtering services and softwares are very English-language-biased; looking up names of body parts or dirty words in different languages will get you many places that most filters simply have no clue about, which is something I definitely think needs to be addressed. BTW- I found this out quite by accident and did a brief investigation to confirm it was true (with image loading turned OFF to keep my eye from offending me...) Otherwise, it really is a wonderful service and they seem to be improving all the time. They also just launched a "FamilyShield" service which automatically blocks the most common offensive material without having to sign up and tick off the categories in your dashboard. http://www.opendns.com/familyshield -Eddy From d.kuntadi at gmail.com Thu Jul 15 05:50:36 2010 From: d.kuntadi at gmail.com (David Kuntadi) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 16:50:36 +0700 Subject: [Linux4christians] Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage Message-ID: Bad news? I am really puzzled by this issue. Do not think that I agree to it, just puzzled. http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-07-08-presbyterian-gay_N.htm DK From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 15 10:02:32 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:02:32 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3F14F8.3030002@bibleseven.com> I already had serious concerns with some of the doctrine taught in the PCUSA, this just more overtly anti-Biblical. Dumb is a simple way of putting it. One *cannot* be a Biblical-Christian organization and then endorse things that are clearly non-Biblical -- one has to choose, God or man. If the PCUSA adopts this then they are no longer a Biblical-Christian organization, they become a quasi-christian religious cult or society or club or something. CONTEXT1: If have previously endorsed the marriage of Christians to non-Christians they were already in rebellion against the Bible, so were already in trouble. CONTEXT2: If they have been promoting the "cult of Calvin" they were already in trouble there as well. We need to not be manipulated into separating the Biblical sin of homosexuality from all other sins, thus playing-into the hands of the "politically-correct speech & thought police". We must treat *all* rebellion against the clear Word of God equally. IMHO, YMMV, ... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage By Peter Smith, The (Louisville) Courier-Journal The Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) would become the largest denomination in the nation to allow same-sex marriage if it follows a recommendation made Tuesday by a church legislative committee. And another church committee, gathering for the Louisville-based church's week-long legislative General Assembly in Minneapolis, recommended the church begin ordaining non-celibate gays and lesbians. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Bad news? > > I am really puzzled by this issue. Do not think that I agree to it, > just puzzled. > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-07-08-presbyterian-gay_N.htm > > DK > _______________________________________________ > Linux4christians mailing list > Linux4christians at thelinuxlink.net > http://www.thelinuxlink.net/mailman/listinfo/linux4christians > > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 15 10:08:38 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 10:08:38 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] OpenDNS In-Reply-To: References: <4C360C84.1050000@bibleseven.com> <4C361C38.1080306@staggs.net> <8CCF198ED1214EB-EBC-FDBB@web-mmc-d10.sysops.aol.com> <4C3E0150.1070103@bibleseven.com> <4C3E0B68.6040605@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C3F1666.7090500@bibleseven.com> Thanks! I have forwarded this to the two local home schooling groups. > BTW- I found this out quite by accident and did a brief investigation to > confirm it was true (with image loading turned OFF to keep my eye from > offending me...) > > Otherwise, it really is a wonderful service and they seem to be improving > all the time. > They also just launched a "FamilyShield" service which automatically blocks > the most common offensive material without having to sign up and tick off > the categories in your dashboard. > http://www.opendns.com/familyshield > > > -Eddy > > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 15 18:00:13 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 18:00:13 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4C3F84ED.8050105@lightlink.com> On 07/15/2010 05:50 AM, David Kuntadi wrote: > Bad news? > > I am really puzzled by this issue. Do not think that I agree to it, > just puzzled. > > http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-07-08-presbyterian-gay_N.htm > It's the same liberal NON-supported by Scripture issue that has been pushed in all of the liberal "churches" all over the world. I put "churches" in quotes because in my opinion, there's NO WAY ANY "church" can be a follow of Christ and WILLFULLY support sin, like same sex relationships. Fred -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 15 19:10:10 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 19:10:10 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage In-Reply-To: <4C3F14F8.3030002@bibleseven.com> References: <4C3F14F8.3030002@bibleseven.com> Message-ID: <4C3F9552.2010600@lightlink.com> On 07/15/2010 10:02 AM, pastordavid at bibleseven.com wrote: [snip] > We need to not be manipulated into separating the Biblical sin of > homosexuality from all other sins, thus playing-into the hands of > the "politically-correct speech & thought police". We must treat > *all* rebellion against the clear Word of God equally. Correct! But, when a particular sin is treated separately by the world, in this case the PCUSA, then we have to deal with it that way, AND make clear it's inclusive with all sin. the PCUSA is headed to be no more than a social order, like American Baptist, Episcopal, and others. I don't intend to spill anyone's bowl of Wheaties......just telling the truth. Fred -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 15 20:14:26 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 20:14:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday Genesis 39:11-23 Message-ID: <4C3FA462.9050201@bibleseven.com> *Friday* /_Genesis 39:11-23_/ 39:11 One day he went into the house to do his work when none of the household servants were there in the house. 39:12 She grabbed him by his outer garment, saying, "Have sex with me!" But he left his outer garment in her hand and ran outside. 39:13 When she saw that he had left his outer garment in her hand and had run outside, 39:14 she called for her household servants and said to them, "See, my husband brought in a Hebrew man to us to humiliate us. He tried to have sex with me, but I screamed loudly. 39:15 When he heard me raise my voice and scream, he left his outer garment beside me and ran outside." 39:16 So she laid his outer garment beside her until his master came home. 39:17 This is what she said to him: "That Hebrew slave you brought to us tried to humiliate me, 39:18 but when I raised my voice and screamed, he left his outer garment and ran outside." 39:19 When his master heard his wife say, "This is the way your slave treated me," he became furious. 39:20 Joseph's master took him and threw him into the prison, the place where the king's prisoners were confined. So he was there in the prison. 39:21 But the Lord was with Joseph and showed him kindness. He granted him favor in the sight of the prison warden. 39:22 The warden put all the prisoners under Joseph's care. He was in charge of whatever they were doing. 39:23 The warden did not concern himself with anything that was in Joseph's care because the Lord was with him and whatever he was doing the Lord was making successful. /_Prayer_/ Lord, sometimes life isn't fair but You are always faithful. Please help me to be faithful to You no matter what happens! /_Commentary_/ Potiphar's wife, feeling scorned, unleashes her lustful and selfish fury in a terrible lie -- turning her husband against Joseph -- landing him in prison. Joseph, powerless to defend himself against the false charges, is cared for by God Who touches the heart of the prison warden with a kindness toward Joseph. As the warden observes the blessing of Joseph spilling-out into the prison population, making his job easier, he trusts Joseph with more and more of the responsibilities. /_Interaction_/ Consider this: Joseph was in a lose-lose situation. If he tried to defend himself, a foreigner and a slave, he would have to call Potiphar's wife a harlot and a liar. Sometimes life isn't fair. Discuss this: Why do you think that God did not intervene, perhaps causing Potiphar to secretly observe his wife's infidelity? Reflect on this: What Satan meant for evil through Potiphar's wifes treachery, God mitigated -- blessing Joseph while in prison. Does He not often still do the same for the faithful? Share this: When have you, or someone you know, been treated in an unfair manner, unable to defend yourself, yet God turned those circumstances to good because you remained faithful to Him? /_Faith in Action_/ Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where God has blessed you despite the ill-intentions of someone who abused their power against you. Action: I will share the story of God's blessing despite the ill-treatment of the world -- giving all of the glory to Him -- and emphasizing the blessing rather than the earlier mistreatment. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ *Saturday's text will be: */_Genesis 40:1-23_/ -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tbutler at ofb.biz Fri Jul 16 00:46:35 2010 From: tbutler at ofb.biz (Timothy Butler) Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2010 23:46:35 -0500 Subject: [Linux4christians] Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage In-Reply-To: <4C3F9552.2010600@lightlink.com> References: <4C3F14F8.3030002@bibleseven.com> <4C3F9552.2010600@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <63A23CEA-6F71-4A9D-B6EA-5587339A8569@ofb.biz> On Jul 15, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Correct! But, when a particular sin is treated separately by the world, in > this case the PCUSA, then we have to deal with it that way, AND make > clear it's inclusive with all sin. the PCUSA is headed to be no more than > a social order, like American Baptist, Episcopal, and others. I don't intend > to spill anyone's bowl of Wheaties......just telling the truth. I'm dubious whether these measures will pass. The committees in the PC(USA) are far more liberal than the General Assembly as a whole. Of course, if they do pass the measures, the EPC will explode in size (we in the PCA might garner a few extra folks as well), which wouldn't be a bad thing. But, I'd rather see the PC(USA) reject the measures. -Tim From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 16 09:19:50 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 09:19:50 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Presbyterian Church committee: Allow same-sex marriage In-Reply-To: <63A23CEA-6F71-4A9D-B6EA-5587339A8569@ofb.biz> References: <4C3F14F8.3030002@bibleseven.com> <4C3F9552.2010600@lightlink.com> <63A23CEA-6F71-4A9D-B6EA-5587339A8569@ofb.biz> Message-ID: <4C405C76.3040804@lightlink.com> On 07/16/2010 12:46 AM, Timothy Butler wrote: > On Jul 15, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Fred A. Miller wrote: > > >> Correct! But, when a particular sin is treated separately by the world, in >> this case the PCUSA, then we have to deal with it that way, AND make >> clear it's inclusive with all sin. the PCUSA is headed to be no more than >> a social order, like American Baptist, Episcopal, and others. I don't intend >> to spill anyone's bowl of Wheaties......just telling the truth. >> > I'm dubious whether these measures will pass. The committees in the PC(USA) are far more liberal than the General Assembly as a whole. > > Of course, if they do pass the measures, the EPC will explode in size (we in the PCA might garner a few extra folks as well), which wouldn't be a bad thing. But, I'd rather see the PC(USA) reject the measures. > So would I, and I have an idea that may happen. After all, 70% of the American public disagrees with the committees. Fortunately, in the PCUSA, the committees can't just change policy as they wish, like what happened to Episcopalians. That denomination is being desecrated in membership, (MANY leaving for the new Anglican church and often taking church properties with it), AND financially. It would appear that it will eventually die a long slow painful death, which it should. Fred -- Liberal Mandate: NEVER let the truth interfear with your agenda and dogma! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 16 18:56:22 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 18:56:22 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday Genesis 40:1-23 Message-ID: <4C40E396.4040801@bibleseven.com> *Saturday* /_Genesis 40:1-23_/ The Cupbearer and the Baker 40:1 After these things happened, the cupbearer to the king of Egypt and the royal baker offended their master, the king of Egypt. 40:2 Pharaoh was enraged with his two officials, the cupbearer and the baker, 40:3 so he imprisoned them in the house of the captain of the guard in the same facility where Joseph was confined. 40:4 The captain of the guard appointed Joseph to be their attendant, and he served them. They spent some time in custody. 40:5 Both of them, the cupbearer and the baker of the king of Egypt, who were confined in the prison, had a dream the same night. Each man's dream had its own meaning. 40:6 When Joseph came to them in the morning, he saw that they were looking depressed. 40:7 So he asked Pharaoh's officials, who were with him in custody in his master's house, "Why do you look so sad today?" 40:8 They told him, "We both had dreams, but there is no one to interpret them." Joseph responded, "Don't interpretations belong to God? Tell them to me." 40:9 So the chief cupbearer told his dream to Joseph: "In my dream, there was a vine in front of me. 40:10 On the vine there were three branches. As it budded, its blossoms opened and its clusters ripened into grapes. 40:11 Now Pharaoh's cup was in my hand, so I took the grapes, squeezed them into his cup, and put the cup in Pharaoh's hand." 40:12 "This is its meaning," Joseph said to him. "The three branches represent three days. 40:13 In three more days Pharaoh will reinstate you and restore you to your office. You will put Pharaoh's cup in his hand, just as you did before when you were cupbearer. 40:14 But remember me when it goes well for you, and show me kindness. Make mention of me to Pharaoh and bring me out of this prison, 40:15 for I really was kidnapped from the land of the Hebrews and I have done nothing wrong here for which they should put me in a dungeon." 40:16 When the chief baker saw that the interpretation of the first dream was favorable, he said to Joseph, "I also appeared in my dream and there were three baskets of white bread on my head. 40:17 In the top basket there were baked goods of every kind for Pharaoh, but the birds were eating them from the basket that was on my head." 40:18 Joseph replied, "This is its meaning: The three baskets represent three days. 40:19 In three more days Pharaoh will decapitate you and impale you on a pole. Then the birds will eat your flesh from you." 40:20 On the third day it was Pharaoh's birthday, so he gave a feast for all his servants. He "lifted up" the head of the chief cupbearer and the head of the chief baker in the midst of his servants. 40:21 He restored the chief cupbearer to his former position so that he placed the cup in Pharaoh's hand, 40:22 but the chief baker he impaled, just as Joseph had predicted. 40:23 But the chief cupbearer did not remember Joseph -- he forgot him. /_Prayer_/ Lord, may I be as faithful and wise as Joseph, remembering that all of the gifts of the Holy Spirit (in this case the gift of interpretation) and all power belong to you. /_Commentary_/ The text does not trouble itself to explain how the baker and the cupbearer "... offended their master, the king of Egypt", it could easily have been something very trivial before a petty tyrant. They were tossed into the same prison as Joseph and he was assigned oversight of them. The baker and the cupbearer both receive prophetic dreams from God in the same evening and Joseph, sensitive to their moods, inquired as to what was troubling them. His interpretation of the cupbearer's dream was positive so the baker shared his as well -- but the baker's dream-prophesy was of his death. When Joseph informed the cupbearer that he would be reinstated he asked that the cupbearer mention his name and his innocence to the king, but the cupbearer was either fearful of once-again offending the king, or simply careless and forgetful -- so Joseph remained forgotten in prison. /_Interaction_/ Consider this: Joseph was careful to remind the baker and the cupbearer "Don't interpretations belong to God?" Are we as careful as Joseph to direct people to recognize that all glory and understanding of the source of power to God? Discuss this: God gave Joseph the gift of interpretation so that he could demonstrate it to the cupbearer because He had a future plan to use that knowledge to bring Joseph before the king of Egypt. Reflect on this: Sometimes things don't happen in the time and the way that we desire, but God will make a way for us as best serves His great and perfect plan. Share this: When have you done a favor and expected one in return and been forgotten -- or forgotten another to whom you owed a favor? /_Faith in Action_/ Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place where you either owe someone a favor or where God has given you a gift and you have failed to be certain that everyone knows that the gift is from God and you are merely His vessel of power. Action: I will make specific plans to return an overdue favor and/or I will testify to the source of my gifts -- the Lord God -- and use the opportunity to tell of His grace and power, share with others as He uses me as His vessel. Be Specific _______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Genesis 41 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Jul 17 20:55:52 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2010 20:55:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday Genesis 41:1-36 Message-ID: <4C425118.2010708@bibleseven.com> Sunday Genesis 41:1-36 Joseph's Rise to Power 41:1 At the end of two full years Pharaoh had a dream. As he was standing by the Nile, 41:2 seven fine-looking, fat cows were coming up out of the Nile, and they grazed in the reeds. 41:3 Then seven bad-looking, thin cows were coming up after them from the Nile, and they stood beside the other cows at the edge of the river. 41:4 The bad-looking, thin cows ate the seven fine-looking, fat cows. Then Pharaoh woke up. 41:5 Then he fell asleep again and had a second dream: There were seven heads of grain growing on one stalk, healthy and good. 41:6 Then seven heads of grain, thin and burned by the east wind, were sprouting up after them. 41:7 The thin heads swallowed up the seven healthy and full heads. Then Pharaoh woke up and realized it was a dream. 41:8 In the morning he was troubled, so he called for all the diviner-priests of Egypt and all its wise men. Pharaoh told them his dreams, but no one could interpret them for him. 41:9 Then the chief cupbearer said to Pharaoh, "Today I recall my failures. 41:10 Pharaoh was enraged with his servants, and he put me in prison in the house of the captain of the guards -- me and the chief baker. 41:11 We each had a dream one night; each of us had a dream with its own meaning. 41:12 Now a young man, a Hebrew, a servant of the captain of the guards, was with us there. We told him our dreams, and he interpreted the meaning of each of our respective dreams for us. 41:13 It happened just as he had said to us -- Pharaoh restored me to my office, but he impaled the baker." 41:14 Then Pharaoh summoned Joseph. So they brought him quickly out of the dungeon; he shaved himself, changed his clothes, and came before Pharaoh. 41:15 Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I had a dream, and there is no one who can interpret it. But I have heard about you, that you can interpret dreams." 41:16 Joseph replied to Pharaoh, "It is not within my power, but God will speak concerning the welfare of Pharaoh." 41:17 Then Pharaoh said to Joseph, "In my dream I was standing by the edge of the Nile. 41:18 Then seven fat and fine-looking cows were coming up out of the Nile, and they grazed in the reeds. 41:19 Then seven other cows came up after them; they were scrawny, very bad-looking, and lean. I had never seen such bad-looking cows as these in all the land of Egypt! 41:20 The lean, bad-looking cows ate up the seven fat cows. 41:21 When they had eaten them, no one would have known that they had done so, for they were just as bad-looking as before. Then I woke up. 41:22 I also saw in my dream seven heads of grain growing on one stalk, full and good. 41:23 Then seven heads of grain, withered and thin and burned with the east wind, were sprouting up after them. 41:24 The thin heads of grain swallowed up the seven good heads of grain. So I told all this to the diviner-priests, but no one could tell me its meaning." 41:25 Then Joseph said to Pharaoh, "Both dreams of Pharaoh have the same meaning. God has revealed to Pharaoh what he is about to do. 41:26 The seven good cows represent seven years, and the seven good heads of grain represent seven years. Both dreams have the same meaning. 41:27 The seven lean, bad-looking cows that came up after them represent seven years, as do the seven empty heads of grain burned with the east wind. They represent seven years of famine. 41:28 This is just what I told Pharaoh: God has shown Pharaoh what he is about to do. 41:29 Seven years of great abundance are coming throughout the whole land of Egypt. 41:30 But seven years of famine will occur after them, and all the abundance will be forgotten in the land of Egypt. The famine will devastate the land. 41:31 The previous abundance of the land will not be remembered because of the famine that follows, for the famine will be very severe. 41:32 The dream was repeated to Pharaoh because the matter has been decreed by God, and God will make it happen soon. 41:33 "So now Pharaoh should look for a wise and discerning man and give him authority over all the land of Egypt. 41:34 Pharaoh should do this -- he should appoint officials throughout the land to collect one-fifth of the produce of the land of Egypt during the seven years of abundance. 41:35 They should gather all the excess food during these good years that are coming. By Pharaoh's authority they should store up grain so the cities will have food, and they should preserve it. 41:36 This food should be held in storage for the land in preparation for the seven years of famine that will occur throughout the land of Egypt. In this way the land will survive the famine." Prayer Lord, may Your perfect meaning be made known to me by Your indwelling Holy Spirit and may I be as bold as Joseph in sharing that with others. Commentary Two years passed, Joseph was still in prison, the Cupbearer back in the palace. The Pharaoh had dreams, visions given to him by God, but his "... diviner-priests", men whose "gift of interpretation" came to them from the evil one because he was the one usually giving the visions to Pharaoh (even if they would not have acknowledged that), were unable to interpret these dreams (because they came from God). The Cupbearer finally remembered Joseph's request, perhaps as it would now make him a 'hero' to the Pharaoh, and told the story of Joseph's accuracy in interpreting dreams. God's message, repeated to Pharaoh twice for emphasis, was that a terrible famine of seven years was to follow seven good years. The counsel of God was that they store one-fifth of the grain during each of the seven good years to carry them through the seven years of famine. Joseph advised Pharaoh to appoint and empower someone he trusted to oversee this so it would happen as instructed. Interaction Consider this: Neither the Cupbearer or the Pharaoh would have understood the difference between the sources of their dreams, they just pragmatically and superstitiously went to whomever seemed most-capable of providing answers. Discuss this: Joseph would appear to have prepped Pharaoh a little with his choice of phrases as he describe the one Pharaoh should choose to lead the famine preparations "... a wise and discerning man" (Joseph was the only one with a clue as to the dreams) and "... give him authority" (Pharaoh was unlikely to have trusted many of those around him). Reflect upon this: Joseph, as a result of God's action, went from a falsely-imprisoned man to not only informing Pharaoh but advising him. Share this: When has God blessed you with the opportunity to inform, and perhaps advise, someone in authority. Were you humble in so-doing? How did they receive your input? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where He has given you information of value to someone in a position of authority. Pray for clarity, wisdom (knowledge plus understanding), and courage. Action: Today I will find a way to deliver the information, and perhaps also advise, that I have been given to the one for whom it is intended. This may be a teacher, parent, bureaucrat, politician, member of law enforcement, coach, neighbor, or friend. I will do so in an appropriate manner and remain humble throughout the process. I will consult with a Biblical "elder" before, during, and after the process for prayer, accountability, and wise counsel. Be Specific/ _______________________________________________________/ Monday's text will be: Genesis 41:37-57 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Jul 18 20:56:40 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 20:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday Genesis 41:37-57 Message-ID: <4C43A2C8.7030309@bibleseven.com> Monday Genesis 41:37-57 41:37 This advice made sense to Pharaoh and all his officials. 41:38 So Pharaoh asked his officials, "Can we find a man like Joseph, one in whom the Spirit of God is present?" 41:39 So Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Because God has enabled you to know all this, there is no one as wise and discerning as you are! 41:40 You will oversee my household, and all my people will submit to your commands. Only I, the king, will be greater than you. 41:41 "See here," Pharaoh said to Joseph, "I place you in authority over all the land of Egypt." 41:42 Then Pharaoh took his signet ring from his own hand and put it on Joseph's. He clothed him with fine linen clothes and put a gold chain around his neck. 41:43 Pharaoh had him ride in the chariot used by his second-in-command, and they cried out before him, "Kneel down!" So he placed him over all the land of Egypt. 41:44 Pharaoh also said to Joseph, "I am Pharaoh, but without your permission no one will move his hand or his foot in all the land of Egypt." 41:45 Pharaoh gave Joseph the name Zaphenath-Paneah. He also gave him Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, to be his wife. So Joseph took charge of all the land of Egypt. 41:46 Now Joseph was 30 years old when he began serving Pharaoh king of Egypt. Joseph was commissioned by Pharaoh and was in charge of all the land of Egypt. 41:47 During the seven years of abundance the land produced large, bountiful harvests. 41:48 Joseph collected all the excess food in the land of Egypt during the seven years and stored it in the cities. In every city he put the food gathered from the fields around it. 41:49 Joseph stored up a vast amount of grain, like the sand of the sea, until he stopped measuring it because it was impossible to measure. 41:50 Two sons were born to Joseph before the famine came. Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, was their mother. 41:51 Joseph named the firstborn Manasseh, saying, "Certainly God has made me forget all my trouble and all my father's house." 41:52 He named the second child Ephraim, saying, "Certainly God has made me fruitful in the land of my suffering." 41:53 The seven years of abundance in the land of Egypt came to an end. 41:54 Then the seven years of famine began, just as Joseph had predicted. There was famine in all the other lands, but throughout the land of Egypt there was food. 41:55 When all the land of Egypt experienced the famine, the people cried out to Pharaoh for food. Pharaoh said to all the people of Egypt, "Go to Joseph and do whatever he tells you." 41:56 While the famine was over all the earth, Joseph opened the storehouses and sold grain to the Egyptians. The famine was severe throughout the land of Egypt. 41:57 People from every country came to Joseph in Egypt to buy grain because the famine was severe throughout the earth. Prayer Lord, may my faithful submission to Your Word and Your Holy Spirit equip me to be a valuable servant in Your service. Commentary Pharaoh was impressed with Joseph's connection to the God Who sent his dreams so he echoed Joseph's advice to appoint one "wise and discerning" - and appointed Joseph. Pharaoh went well beyond what Joseph had suggested, making him all-but his equal in power throughout all of Egypt. Joseph did as he had learned from God, storing-up the grain for the famine -- when it came the people Egypt, and in the nations surrounding it, bought the grain they had stored and the people's needs met. Interaction Consider this: Joseph was faithful to God in his ethics and his humility, thus he was valuable to God in providing a source of grain for his people when the famine came. Discuss this: The text does not report that Joseph offered any resistance to the Pharaoh's provision of an Egyptian to be his wife, and even the daughter of the "priest of On", very probably one who practiced witchcraft. Sometimes one may be faithful in some areas and not even think to invite God into decision making in others. Reflect on this: Joseph's ascension to power would be like someone from South Korea becoming the second most powerful man in China. Share this: When have you observed someone wisely anticipating difficult times and leading others to make wise provision -- and thus they were better prepared and could even help others? (Perhaps investing in healthy relationships, preparing for storms, getting a generator, storing extra wood for a fireplace, investing wisely, etc.) Faith in Action Prayer Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to prepare for difficult times ahead. Action I agree to act promptly and wisely on what the Holy Spirit shows me about the areas where I need to be better prepared for the storms of life; be they Bible knowledge and understanding (wisdom), energy, finances, food, health, healthy relationships, or other areas. Be Specific _______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Genesis 38:1-11 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Jul 19 17:43:04 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:43:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday Genesis 38:1-11 Message-ID: <4C44C6E8.1080609@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Genesis 38:1-11 Joseph's Brothers in Egypt 42:1 When Jacob heard there was grain in Egypt, he said to his sons, "Why are you looking at each other?" 42:2 He then said, "Look, I hear that there is grain in Egypt. Go down there and buy grain for us so that we may live and not die." 42:3 So ten of Joseph's brothers went down to buy grain from Egypt. 42:4 But Jacob did not send Joseph's brother Benjamin with his brothers, for he said, "What if some accident happens to him?" 42:5 So Israel's sons came to buy grain among the other travelers, for the famine was severe in the land of Canaan. 42:6 Now Joseph was the ruler of the country, the one who sold grain to all the people of the country. Joseph's brothers came and bowed down before him with their faces to the ground. 42:7 When Joseph saw his brothers, he recognized them, but he pretended to be a stranger to them and spoke to them harshly. He asked, "Where do you come from?" They answered, "From the land of Canaan, to buy grain for food." 42:8 Joseph recognized his brothers, but they did not recognize him. 42:9 Then Joseph remembered the dreams he had dreamed about them, and he said to them, "You are spies; you have come to see if our land is vulnerable!" 42:10 But they exclaimed, "No, my lord! Your servants have come to buy grain for food! 42:11 We are all the sons of one man; we are honest men! Your servants are not spies." 42:12 "No," he insisted, "but you have come to see if our land is vulnerable." 42:13 They replied, "Your servants are from a family of twelve brothers. We are the sons of one man in the land of Canaan. The youngest is with our father at this time, and one is no longer alive." 42:14 But Joseph told them, "It is just as I said to you: You are spies! 42:15 You will be tested in this way: As surely as Pharaoh lives, you will not depart from this place unless your youngest brother comes here. 42:16 One of you must go and get your brother, while the rest of you remain in prison. In this way your words may be tested to see if you are telling the truth. If not, then, as surely as Pharaoh lives, you are spies!" 42:17 He imprisoned them all for three days. 42:18 On the third day Joseph said to them, "Do as I say and you will live, for I fear God. 42:19 If you are honest men, leave one of your brothers confined here in prison while the rest of you go and take grain back for your hungry families. 42:20 But you must bring your youngest brother to me. Then your words will be verified and you will not die." They did as he said. Prayer Lord, sometimes You test me because I have shown evidence of a poor character in the past. May I be humble and allow Your testing to teach me and never respond with rebellion so that it becomes a temptation and then sin. Commentary Jacob/Israel challenges his older sons for standing around looking helpless in the face of the famine to go to Egypt and to buy some grain, but he refuses to send Benjamin with them. When they arrive in Egypt Joseph recognizes them but they do not recognize him. Joseph decides to test them by accusing them of being spies, at which time they defend themselves by saying they have a father and younger brother in Canaan -- thinking that would be evidence that they were not spies -- but Joseph wants to see his Benjamin and wants to know if his brothers are still selfish and untrustworthy. Joseph throws them in jail for 3 days then demands that one stay in prison as hostage while the others go and bring back Benjamin as evidence that they were not lying. Interaction Consider this: Joseph had good cause to mistrust his brothers. Discuss this: Jacob/Israel feared the loss of Benjamin because he had never ceased mourning the loss of Joseph, however, because the other sons had lied to him about Joseph they no longer whined about his improper favoritism. When they sinned in their anger against Joseph they lost the right to complain about their father's sin. Reflect on this: If Joseph had not been there to save and to later distribute the grain what might Jacob/Israel's family done for food during the famine? God surely would have provided but what a convoluted way for it to happen because of the sin of Joseph's brothers. Share this: When have you made a bad decision that made something in your future a whole lot more complicated and difficult than it may otherwise have been? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be complicating your future because of poor choices today. Action: I agree to accept what the Holy Spirit shows me and to act to bring my choices into line with what God desires rather than what I have been doing out of the weakness of my flesh. Be Specific ________________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Genesis 42:21-38 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon Jul 19 17:48:52 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2010 17:48:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] A Parrot That Knows LINUX Message-ID: <4C44C844.8050204@lightlink.com> A man went to buy a parrot. The pet shop owner pointed out three identical parrots and said, "The parrot to the left costs 500 dollars." "Why does that parrot cost so much?" the man wondered. The owner replied, "Well, it knows how to use a computer." The man asked about the next parrot. "That one costs 1,000 dollars because it can do everything the other parrot can do, plus it knows how to use the LINUX operating system." Naturally, the startled customer asked about the third parrot. "That one costs 2,000 dollars." "And what does that one do?" the man asked. The owner replied, "To be honest, I've never seen him do a thing, but the other two call him Boss." -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 20 11:56:26 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 11:56:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] RECALL NOTICE Message-ID: <4C45C72A.2060504@lightlink.com> RECALL NOTICE: The Maker of all human beings (GOD) is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to a serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart. This is due to a malfunction in the original prototype units code named Adam and Eve, resulting in the reproduction of the same defect in all subsequent units. This defect has been technically termed "Sub-sequential Internal Non-Morality," or more commonly known as S.I.N., as it is primarily expressed. Some of the symptoms include: 1. Loss of direction 2. Foul vocal emissions 3. Amnesia of origin 4. Lack of peace and joy 5. Selfish or violent behavior 6. Depression or confusion in the mental component 7. Fearfulness 8. Idolatry 9. Rebellion The Manufacturer, who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is providing factory-authorized repair and service free of charge to correct this defect. The Repair Technician, JESUS, has most generously offered to bear the entire burden of the staggering cost of these repairs. There is no additional fee required. The number to call for repair in all areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R. Once connected, please upload your burden of SIN through the REPENTANCE procedure. Next, download ATONEMENT from the Repair Technician, Jesus, into the heart component. No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, Jesus will replace it with: 1. Love 2. Joy 3. Peace 4. Patience 5. Kindness 6. Goodness 7. Faithfulness 8. Gentleness 9. Self control Please see the operating manual, the B.I.B.L.E. (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) for further details on the use of these fixes. WARNING: Continuing to operate the human being unit without correction voids any manufacturer warranties, exposing the unit to dangers and problems too numerous to list and will result in the human unit being permanently impounded. For free emergency service, call on Jesus. DANGER: The human being units not responding to this recall action will have to be scrapped in the furnace. The SIN defect will not be permitted to enter his Kingdom so as to prevent contamination of that facility. Thank you for your attention! GOD P.S. Please assist where possible by notifying others of this important recall notice, and you may contact the Father any time by 'Knee mail'! -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 20 14:48:03 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:48:03 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] U.S. Authorities Shut Down WordPress Host With 73, 000 Blogs Message-ID: <4C45EF63.9060309@lightlink.com> http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/us-authorities-shut-down-wordpress-host-with-73000-blogs.html?utm_source=Vision+to+America+Announcements&utm_campaign=5d6f67fdcc-Vision_to_America_Announcements_7_18_2010&utm_medium=email -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 20 14:48:40 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:48:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] U.S. Authorities Shut Down WordPress Host With 73, 000 Blogs Message-ID: <4C45EF88.2090001@lightlink.com> http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/us-authorities-shut-down-wordpress-host-with-73000-blogs.html?utm_source=Vision+to+America+Announcements&utm_campaign=5d6f67fdcc-Vision_to_America_Announcements_7_18_2010&utm_medium=email -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 20 14:56:40 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:56:40 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] U.S. Authorities Shut Down WordPress Host With 73, 000 Blogs - Update! Message-ID: <4C45F168.3030800@lightlink.com> It also claimed that material allegedly found on the server included "the names of American citizens targeted for assassination by al-Qaeda" as well as messages from Osama bin Laden and other leaders of the terrorist organisation. http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/us-authorities-shut-down-wordpress-host-with-73000-blogs.html?utm_source=Vision+to+America+Announcements&utm_campaign=5d6f67fdcc-Vision_to_America_Announcements_7_18_2010&utm_medium=email -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 20 14:56:43 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 14:56:43 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] U.S. Authorities Shut Down WordPress Host With 73, 000 Blogs - Update! Message-ID: <4C45F16B.9040601@lightlink.com> It also claimed that material allegedly found on the server included "the names of American citizens targeted for assassination by al-Qaeda" as well as messages from Osama bin Laden and other leaders of the terrorist organisation. http://www.visiontoamerica.org/story/us-authorities-shut-down-wordpress-host-with-73000-blogs.html?utm_source=Vision+to+America+Announcements&utm_campaign=5d6f67fdcc-Vision_to_America_Announcements_7_18_2010&utm_medium=email -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 20 22:24:27 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:24:27 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday Genesis 42:21-38 Message-ID: <4C465A5B.9090609@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Genesis 42:21-38 42:21 They said to one other, "Surely we're being punished because of our brother, because we saw how distressed he was when he cried to us for mercy, but we refused to listen. That is why this distress has come on us!" 42:22 Reuben said to them, "Didn't I say to you, 'Don't sin against the boy,' but you wouldn't listen? So now we must pay for shedding his blood!" 42:23 (Now they did not know that Joseph could understand them, for he was speaking through an interpreter.) 42:24 He turned away from them and wept. When he turned around and spoke to them again, he had Simeon taken from them and tied up before their eyes. 42:25 Then Joseph gave orders to fill their bags with grain, to return each man's money to his sack, and to give them provisions for the journey. His orders were carried out. 42:26 So they loaded their grain on their donkeys and left. 42:27 When one of them opened his sack to get feed for his donkey at their resting place, he saw his money in the mouth of his sack. 42:28 He said to his brothers, "My money was returned! Here it is in my sack!" They were dismayed; they turned trembling one to another and said, "What in the world has God done to us?" 42:29 They returned to their father Jacob in the land of Canaan and told him all the things that had happened to them, saying, 42:30 "The man, the lord of the land, spoke harshly to us and treated us as if we were spying on the land. 42:31 But we said to him, 'We are honest men; we are not spies! 42:32 We are from a family of twelve brothers; we are the sons of one father. One is no longer alive, and the youngest is with our father at this time in the land of Canaan.' 42:33 "Then the man, the lord of the land, said to us, 'This is how I will find out if you are honest men. Leave one of your brothers with me, and take grain for your hungry households and go. 42:34 But bring your youngest brother back to me so I will know that you are honest men and not spies. Then I will give your brother back to you and you may move about freely in the land.'" 42:35 When they were emptying their sacks, there was each man's bag of money in his sack! When they and their father saw the bags of money, they were afraid. 42:36 Their father Jacob said to them, "You are making me childless! Joseph is gone. Simeon is gone. And now you want to take Benjamin! Everything is against me." 42:37 Then Reuben said to his father, "You may put my two sons to death if I do not bring him back to you. Put him in my care and I will bring him back to you." 42:38 But Jacob replied, "My son will not go down there with you, for his brother is dead and he alone is left. If an accident happens to him on the journey you have to make, then you will bring down my gray hair in sorrow to the grave." Prayer Lord, Numbers 32:23, John 3:20 remind us that our sins will find us out, and 1 John 1:10 says that if we claim to be without sin we make Jesus a liar (He said all have sinned) and therefore the Word does not live in us (we are unsaved). So please accept my confession that I may be wiped clean and not have to look over my shoulder every day in fear of the retribution of God or of man. Commentary Joseph's brothers had carried the burden of their merciless mistreatment for many years, now they believed that their predicament in Egypt was punishment for that. Joseph, yet to be recognized and communicating through an interpreter, was driven to tears and turned away. Joseph had their bags filled and the money secretly returned to them in their bags. When they found the money they were frightened that the Egyptians might accuse them of theft, but as an evidence of their spiritual immaturity, they blamed God. They told their story to Jacob/Israel but he refused to allow Benjamin to go, even after Reuben offered his own sons' lives as assurance of Benjamin's safe return. And so they waited as the famine worsened. Interaction Consider this: Joseph's testing of his brothers continued and their tortured souls from their mistreatment of him (though they though him dead, or lost forever in slavery) made them cooperative rather than rebellious. Discuss this: Simeon is in prison in Egypt, the people are hungry due to the famine, yet Jacob/Israel's fear of losing Benjamin causes him to refuse to allow the only thing that will make it possible to buy more grain. Is this wisdom an absence of trust in the Lord God? Reflect on this: Had Joseph/Israel been a more pious man, one who properly discipled his sons in the importance of a healthy relationship with God, they might have made many better decisions. Share this: When have you been faced with a difficult decision, one that places someone or something you value greatly in harms-way, but one which is plainly unavoidable? How did you manage your decision making process? Was the Lord God intentionally invited into that process? How did things work out? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you a place of decision making where He'd like to be invited but one where you have so far made decisions without inviting His input. Action: I will intentionally invite the Holy Spirit to direct my decision making in the area(s) that He reveals to me where I have to-date been making decisions in the flesh. If I have difficulty being certain what He is saying I will ask one who is qualified as a Biblical "elder" to ask God to reveal it to him. Be Specific ____________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Genesis 43:1-14 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 20 22:53:51 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2010 22:53:51 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday Genesis 42:21-38 - CORRECTION Message-ID: <4C46613F.5080406@bibleseven.com> This should read "Jacob/Israel" > Reflect on this: > > Had Joseph/Israel been a more pious man, one who properly discipled > his sons in the importance of a healthy relationship with God, they > might have made many better decisions. > -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 21 21:03:23 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:03:23 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday Genesis 43:1-14 Message-ID: <4C4798DB.1010007@bibleseven.com> Thursday Genesis 43:1-14 The Second Journey to Egypt 43:1 Now the famine was severe in the land. 43:2 When they finished eating the grain they had brought from Egypt, their father said to them, "Return, buy us a little more food." 43:3 But Judah said to him, "The man solemnly warned us, 'You will not see my face unless your brother is with you.' 43:4 If you send our brother with us, we'll go down and buy food for you. 43:5 But if you will not send him, we won't go down there because the man said to us, 'You will not see my face unless your brother is with you.'" 43:6 Israel said, "Why did you bring this trouble on me by telling the man you had one more brother?" 43:7 They replied, "The man questioned us thoroughly about ourselves and our family, saying, 'Is your father still alive? Do you have another brother?' So we answered him in this way. How could we possibly know that he would say, 'Bring your brother down'?" 43:8 Then Judah said to his father Israel, "Send the boy with me and we will go immediately. Then we will live and not die -- we and you and our little ones. 43:9 I myself pledge security for him; you may hold me liable. If I do not bring him back to you and place him here before you, I will bear the blame before you all my life. 43:10 But if we had not delayed, we could have traveled there and back twice by now!" 43:11 Then their father Israel said to them, "If it must be so, then do this: Take some of the best products of the land in your bags, and take a gift down to the man -- a little balm and a little honey, spices and myrrh, pistachios and almonds. 43:12 Take double the money with you; you must take back the money that was returned in the mouths of your sacks -- perhaps it was an oversight. 43:13 Take your brother too, and go right away to the man. 43:14 May the sovereign God grant you mercy before the man so that he may release your other brother and Benjamin! As for me, if I lose my children I lose them." Prayer Lord, sometimes we give too much information to people who may misuse it, give us the wisdom to know what to share and when to take a little extra care. Commentary Jacob/Israel's family finally runs out of grain and is faced with the need to return to Egypt for more. The older sons remind their father that they cannot return to Egypt without Benjamin. He chastising them for sharing the information about Benjamin, not knowing that they were speaking to Joseph, and they explain that they had no way of knowing the way that he reacted to the information. Jacob/Israel relented and instructed them to bring the first payments plus a second and well as the best of many other special things so that they will be well-received, their older brother released, Benjamin unharmed, and all return with grain. His final exclamation was "As for me, if I lose my children I lose them.", meaning that he recognized that them not going meant they all would starve to death -- so his desire to withhold Benjamin was meaningless. Interaction Consider this: Joseph's father and brothers were in a no-win situation, Joseph had the food and the power of a huge nation, and they were hungry and powerless. Discuss this: With his experiences with God why do you suppose that the record does not show Jacob/Israel ever consulting God about this situation? Reflect on this: Jacob/Israel does refer to the "sovereign God" (El Shaddai), as opposed to the "Lord God", which suggests that he still views his relationship with God as hierarchical and distant. [Note: Genesis 1 uses "sovereign" as God is acting alone in Creation and His relationship with man is not yet the purpose of the text, Genesis 2 and 3 use "Lord", which also becomes an element of Satan's deception as he persuades Eve to drop "Lord" from her title of respect for God.] Share this: When have you found yourself in a no-win situation, partially a result of your own prior poor choices, and you initially forgot to invite God into your decision making? When did you finally invite Him and what was the result? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to reconsider resistance to a changed strategy as your circumstances do not allow you the luxury of stubbornness -- especially stubbornness born of fear. Action: I will prayerfully consult the Holy Spirit for wisdom and will allow Him to direct my decisions -- and to be my courage where I need to make some risky choices. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Genesis 43:15-34 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Wed Jul 21 21:48:46 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Wed, 21 Jul 2010 21:48:46 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Nicely done! Message-ID: <4C47A37E.3090202@lightlink.com> Nicely done! Here in Canada, SIN is something issued by government. It also comes numbered, and every Canadian and permanent immigrant is entitled to receive such SIN. Once you have it, you cannot get rid of it, although in some cases a Canadian may apply to have the number changed. No matter how hard they try to cleanse themselves of SIN, once it is issued, Canadians are stuck with it. My Canadian husband promised to turn me into an honest woman, and almost immediately upon arrival here, a government agent from the SIN issuing agency came to welcome this new arrival and collected all necessary information so I also would be receiving my personalized SIN. In time, I was able to proudly display my own, numbered and personaliced, even plastised SIN, or Social Insurance Number. Yep, up North here, we are all equipped with documentable SIN. -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mwmcmlln at mnsi.net Thu Jul 22 00:40:42 2010 From: mwmcmlln at mnsi.net (Mike McMullin) Date: Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:40:42 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Nicely done! In-Reply-To: <4C47A37E.3090202@lightlink.com> References: <4C47A37E.3090202@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <1279773642.12999.8.camel@P-733-Lin> On Wed, 2010-07-21 at 21:48 -0400, Fred A. Miller wrote: > Nicely done! > > Here in Canada, SIN is something issued by government. It also comes > numbered, and every Canadian and permanent immigrant is entitled to > receive such SIN. Once you have it, you cannot get rid of it, although > in some cases a Canadian may apply to have the number changed. No matter > how hard they try to cleanse themselves of SIN, once it is issued, > Canadians are stuck with it. > > My Canadian husband promised to turn me into an honest woman, and almost > immediately upon arrival here, a government agent from the SIN issuing > agency came to welcome this new arrival and collected all necessary > information so I also would be receiving my personalized SIN. In time, I > was able to proudly display my own, numbered and personaliced, even > plastised SIN, or Social Insurance Number. Yep, up North here, we are > all equipped with documentable SIN. > -- Let He is is without SIN, not be Canadian. As a side note you are only required to divulge your SIN when it can affect your end of year taxes. (So my bank can't have it, but my employer needs it.) From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 23 15:20:35 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:20:35 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday Genesis 43:15-34 Message-ID: <4C49EB83.5060705@bibleseven.com> Friday Genesis 43:15-34 43:15 So the men took these gifts, and they took double the money with them, along with Benjamin. Then they hurried down to Egypt and stood before Joseph. 43:16 When Joseph saw Benjamin with them, he said to the servant who was over his household, "Bring the men to the house. Slaughter an animal and prepare it, for the men will eat with me at noon." 43:17 The man did just as Joseph said; he brought the men into Joseph's house. 43:18 But the men were afraid when they were brought to Joseph's house. They said, "We are being brought in because of the money that was returned in our sacks last time. He wants to capture us, make us slaves, and take our donkeys!" 43:19 So they approached the man who was in charge of Joseph's household and spoke to him at the entrance to the house. 43:20 They said, "My lord, we did indeed come down the first time to buy food. 43:21 But when we came to the place where we spent the night, we opened our sacks and each of us found his money -- the full amount -- in the mouth of his sack. So we have returned it. 43:22 We have brought additional money with us to buy food. We do not know who put the money in our sacks!" 43:23 "Everything is fine," the man in charge of Joseph's household told them. "Don't be afraid. Your God and the God of your father has given you treasure in your sacks. I had your money." Then he brought Simeon out to them. 43:24 The servant in charge brought the men into Joseph's house. He gave them water, and they washed their feet. Then he gave food to their donkeys. 43:25 They got their gifts ready for Joseph's arrival at noon, for they had heard that they were to have a meal there. 43:26 When Joseph came home, they presented him with the gifts they had brought inside, and they bowed down to the ground before him. 43:27 He asked them how they were doing. Then he said, "Is your aging father well, the one you spoke about? Is he still alive?" 43:28 "Your servant our father is well," they replied. "He is still alive." They bowed down in humility. 43:29 When Joseph looked up and saw his brother Benjamin, his mother's son, he said, "Is this your youngest brother, whom you told me about?" Then he said, "May God be gracious to you, my son." 43:30 Joseph hurried out, for he was overcome by affection for his brother and was at the point of tears. So he went to his room and wept there. 43:31 Then he washed his face and came out. With composure he said, "Set out the food." 43:32 They set a place for him, a separate place for his brothers, and another for the Egyptians who were eating with him. (The Egyptians are not able to eat with Hebrews, for the Egyptians think it is disgusting to do so.) 43:33 They sat before him, arranged by order of birth, beginning with the firstborn and ending with the youngest. The men looked at each other in astonishment. 43:34 He gave them portions of the food set before him, but the portion for Benjamin was five times greater than the portions for any of the others. They drank with Joseph until they all became drunk. Prayer Lord, may we be both surprised and grateful when You have gone on ahead and prepared just what we need for us, blessing us beyond our rightfully-humble expectations. Commentary Joseph's brothers arrived and immediately sought to neutralize any potential trouble due to the gold that had been returned to their grain sacks during their prior visit. Joseph's servant explained that it was "/Your God and the God of your father has given you treasure in your sacks./" Joseph questioned them about their father, Jacob/Israel, and then greeted his younger brother Benjamin. Joseph was overwhelmed by emotion at the reunion, even though only he knew it to be a reunion, and left the room to weep and to compose himself. Joseph then joined them in a great feast, treating Benjamin to five-times more food than his brothers. They were "/astonished/" that he would do such a thing, as it would appear impolite to the others, but given Jacob/Israel's propensity toward favoritism they were possibly most-surprised that even in Egypt Benjamin was treated with favoritism. They all ate and drank together until they were "drunk", which given what is believed to be the traditionally low-alcohol content of wine served at feasts (in those days) may have been an indicator of how long they were together, and/or as the NET translator's notes suggest "and they drank and were intoxicated with him" (or very comfortable and merry with him). Interaction Consider this: Joseph may have been working his way toward forgiveness, once he had tested the character of those who had so badly mistreated him. Discuss this: Putting yourself in Joseph's place, the favored son of his father (a man of considerable means), sold into slavery by his brothers, falsely accused and imprisoned while a slave, raised to great authority and power by a foreign king, married to an Egyptian woman with children by her, and now confronted with his brothers. How easy would it be for you to forgive them after all of that? Remember that he was raised to be a Hebrew, not an Egyptian; believing that being-Hebrew was something special whereas Egyptians thought Hebrews to be a lesser-people not fit to even dine with. Reflect on this: Even after all that had transpired Joseph still struggled to disclose his identity to them. Perhaps out of insecurity that they might condemn him for appearing to sell-out to the Egyptians? Perhaps still working-past his mistrust? Share this: When have you been mistreated by someone, or a group/organization, and the roles have been reversed and they are now before you in need of your grace. How did you evaluate their sincerity? How did you deal with your need to give them grace? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you need to forgive and reconcile and perhaps even restore a broken relationship. Action: I will follow where the Holy Spirit leads me, even though difficult, to offer the same grace that my Lord God -- Whom I have so often and grievously offended -- has given me -- to those who have offended me. Restoration of relationship may not be possible or even wise, but forgiveness equals freedom and reconciliation means that I stand with Christ with a heart of love. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Genesis 44:1-34 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 23 17:04:58 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 17:04:58 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] India unveils $35 LINUX computer for students Message-ID: <4C4A03FA.4090006@bibleseven.com> India unveils $35 LINUX computer for students http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/07/23/india.thirty.five.dollar.laptop/index.html?hpt=T2 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 23 16:04:53 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:04:53 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday Genesis 44:1-34 Message-ID: <4C49F5E5.6070109@bibleseven.com> Saturday Genesis 44:1-34 The Final Test 44:1 He instructed the servant who was over his household, "Fill the sacks of the men with as much food as they can carry and put each man's money in the mouth of his sack. 44:2 Then put my cup -- the silver cup -- in the mouth of the youngest one's sack, along with the money for his grain." He did as Joseph instructed. 44:3 When morning came, the men and their donkeys were sent off. 44:4 They had not gone very far from the city when Joseph said to the servant who was over his household, "Pursue the men at once! When you overtake them, say to them, 'Why have you repaid good with evil? 44:5 Doesn't my master drink from this cup and use it for divination? You have done wrong!'" 44:6 When the man overtook them, he spoke these words to them. 44:7 They answered him, "Why does my lord say such things? Far be it from your servants to do such a thing! 44:8 Look, the money that we found in the mouths of our sacks we brought back to you from the land of Canaan. Why then would we steal silver or gold from your master's house? 44:9 If one of us has it, he will die, and the rest of us will become my lord's slaves!" 44:10 He replied, "You have suggested your own punishment! The one who has it will become my slave, but the rest of you will go free." 44:11 So each man quickly lowered his sack to the ground and opened it. 44:12 Then the man searched. He began with the oldest and finished with the youngest. The cup was found in Benjamin's sack! 44:13 They all tore their clothes! Then each man loaded his donkey, and they returned to the city. 44:14 So Judah and his brothers came back to Joseph's house. He was still there, and they threw themselves to the ground before him. 44:15 Joseph said to them, "What did you think you were doing? Don't you know that a man like me can find out things like this by divination?" 44:16 Judah replied, "What can we say to my lord? What can we speak? How can we clear ourselves? God has exposed the sin of your servants! We are now my lord's slaves, we and the one in whose possession the cup was found." 44:17 But Joseph said, "Far be it from me to do this! The man in whose hand the cup was found will become my slave, but the rest of you may go back to your father in peace." 44:18 Then Judah approached him and said, "My lord, please allow your servant to speak a word with you. Please do not get angry with your servant, for you are just like Pharaoh. 44:19 My lord asked his servants, 'Do you have a father or a brother?' 44:20 We said to my lord, 'We have an aged father, and there is a young boy who was born when our father was old. The boy's brother is dead. He is the only one of his mother's sons left, and his father loves him.' 44:21 "Then you told your servants, 'Bring him down to me so I can see him.' 44:22 We said to my lord, 'The boy cannot leave his father. If he leaves his father, his father will die.' 44:23 But you said to your servants, 'If your youngest brother does not come down with you, you will not see my face again.' 44:24 When we returned to your servant my father, we told him the words of my lord. 44:25 "Then our father said, 'Go back and buy us a little food.' 44:26 But we replied, 'We cannot go down there. If our youngest brother is with us, then we will go, for we won't be permitted to see the man's face if our youngest brother is not with us.' 44:27 "Then your servant my father said to us, 'You know that my wife gave me two sons. 44:28 The first disappeared and I said, "He has surely been torn to pieces." I have not seen him since. 44:29 If you take this one from me too and an accident happens to him, then you will bring down my gray hair in tragedy to the grave.' 44:30 "So now, when I return to your servant my father, and the boy is not with us -- his very life is bound up in his son's life. 44:31 When he sees the boy is not with us, he will die, and your servants will bring down the gray hair of your servant our father in sorrow to the grave. 44:32 Indeed, your servant pledged security for the boy with my father, saying, 'If I do not bring him back to you, then I will bear the blame before my father all my life.' 44:33 "So now, please let your servant remain as my lord's slave instead of the boy. As for the boy, let him go back with his brothers. 44:34 For how can I go back to my father if the boy is not with me? I couldn't bear to see my father's pain." Prayer Lord, when You test me for integrity and obedience may I not be found wanting, rather willing to be fully honest and fully surrendered. Commentary Joseph is not yet done in his testing of his brothers. He sets them up with his silver cup on Benjamin's bag to see if they will sell-him-out for their own sakes. Whereas on the first trip it was Reuben who pleaded for mercy and who offered himself as hostage, this time it is Judah. The evidence of Judah's changed heart is not only his offer to remain as a slave in Benjamin's place but his exclamation "/I couldn't bear to see my father's pain./" Interaction Consider this: Joseph is testing his brothers one last time -- apparently the pain of their betrayal remained intensely difficult for him to overcome. Discuss this: Would you offer yourself as a slave for a sibling, especially one who had been treated with favoritism ahead of you all of his life? Reflect on this: How is Judah's offer to be a substitute for Benjamin a precursor to the offer of Jesus to be our substitute? It is different as Judah's offer was significantly motivated by guilt for what he had helped to do to Benjamin's brother Joseph and for the pain that had caused his father Jacob/Israel for many years. Share this: When have you stood-up for another, even offering to take the blame or to fill their place? What was your motivation and how did it work out? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you where your decisions may be motivated by a sense of guilt, and if that guilt is genuine or a lie of the enemy. Ask Him also to remind you when He asked you to stand-in for another and you were faithful in so-doing. Action: I will prayerfully reject any false-guilt the Holy Spirit reveals to me. I will acknowledge and seek to make-right anything He reveals that requires it. I will celebrate the occasion, or occasions, that He has found me a useful tool of His blessing to serve another as a substitute -- or at least to have made a genuine offer to do so. Be Specific _______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be: Genesis 46 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 23 15:36:52 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2010 15:36:52 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday Genesis 43:1-14 -- CORRECTIONS Message-ID: <4C49EF54.3020009@bibleseven.com> Thanks to a list member for these suggested corrections (below). NOTE: As a result of the excellent feedback the Gospels-series was improved to where it drew the attention of someone at http://bble.org. It is about to be published (heavily-edited for content and to match their format) on their site. I will notify the list(s) when the Gospels-series begins to be published. Once the 12-weeks series has been completed we will prepare and submit the rest of the NT and then begin the OT. Your continued input, which helps to make this resource of value to others, is gratefully received. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thursday Genesis 43:1-14 -- CORRECTIONS "The older sons remind their father that they cannot return to Egypt without Benjamin. He chastising them for sharing the information about Benjamin, not knowing that they were speaking to Joseph, and they explain that they had no way of knowing the way that he reacted to the information." CHANGE: "chastising" TO: "chastises" CHANGE: "they explain that they had no way of knowing the way that he reacted " TO: "/How could we possibly know that he would say, 'Bring your brother down'?/" -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Jul 24 20:56:59 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 24 Jul 2010 20:56:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday Genesis 46 Message-ID: <4C4B8BDB.9010606@bibleseven.com> *A Study with Daily Application* *Genesis* Sunday Genesis 46 The Family of Jacob goes to Egypt 46:1 So Israel began his journey, taking with him all that he had. When he came to Beer Sheba he offered sacrifices to the God of his father Isaac. 46:2 God spoke to Israel in a vision during the night and said, "Jacob, Jacob!" He replied, "Here I am!" 46:3 He said, "I am God, the God of your father. Do not be afraid to go down to Egypt, for I will make you into a great nation there. 46:4 I will go down with you to Egypt and I myself will certainly bring you back from there. Joseph will close your eyes." 46:5 Then Jacob started out from Beer Sheba, and the sons of Israel carried their father Jacob, their little children, and their wives in the wagons that Pharaoh had sent along to transport him. 46:6 Jacob and all his descendants took their livestock and the possessions they had acquired in the land of Canaan, and they went to Egypt. 46:7 He brought with him to Egypt his sons and grandsons, his daughters and granddaughters -- all his descendants. 46:8 These are the names of the sons of Israel who went to Egypt -- Jacob and his sons: Reuben, the firstborn of Jacob. 46:9 The sons of Reuben: Hanoch, Pallu, Hezron, and Carmi. 46:10 The sons of Simeon: Jemuel, Jamin, Ohad, Jakin, Zohar, and Shaul (the son of a Canaanite woman). 46:11 The sons of Levi: Gershon, Kohath, and Merari. 46:12 The sons of Judah: Er, Onan, Shelah, Perez, and Zerah (but Er and Onan died in the land of Canaan). The sons of Perez were Hezron and Hamul. 46:13 The sons of Issachar: Tola, Puah, Jashub, and Shimron. 46:14 The sons of Zebulun: Sered, Elon, and Jahleel. 46:15 These were the sons of Leah, whom she bore to Jacob in Paddan Aram, along with Dinah his daughter. His sons and daughters numbered thirty-three in all. 46:16 The sons of Gad: Zephon, Haggi, Shuni, Ezbon, Eri, Arodi, and Areli. 46:17 The sons of Asher: Imnah, Ishvah, Ishvi, Beriah, and Serah their sister. The sons of Beriah were Heber and Malkiel. 46:18 These were the sons of Zilpah, whom Laban gave to Leah his daughter. She bore these to Jacob, sixteen in all. 46:19 The sons of Rachel the wife of Jacob: Joseph and Benjamin. 46:20 Manasseh and Ephraim were born to Joseph in the land of Egypt. Asenath daughter of Potiphera, priest of On, bore them to him. 46:21 The sons of Benjamin: Bela, Beker, Ashbel, Gera, Naaman, Ehi, Rosh, Muppim, Huppim and Ard. 46:22 These were the sons of Rachel who were born to Jacob, fourteen in all. 46:23 The son of Dan: Hushim. 46:24 The sons of Naphtali: Jahziel, Guni, Jezer, and Shillem. 46:25 These were the sons of Bilhah, whom Laban gave to Rachel his daughter. She bore these to Jacob, seven in all. 46:26 All the direct descendants of Jacob who went to Egypt with him were sixty-six in number. (This number does not include the wives of Jacob's sons.) 46:27 Counting the two sons of Joseph who were born to him in Egypt, all the people of the household of Jacob who were in Egypt numbered seventy. 46:28 Jacob sent Judah before him to Joseph to accompany him to Goshen. So they came to the land of Goshen. 46:29 Joseph harnessed his chariot and went up to meet his father Israel in Goshen. When he met him, he hugged his neck and wept on his neck for quite some time. 46:30 Israel said to Joseph, "Now let me die since I have seen your face and know that you are still alive." 46:31 Then Joseph said to his brothers and his father's household, "I will go up and tell Pharaoh, 'My brothers and my father's household who were in the land of Canaan have come to me. 46:32 The men are shepherds; they take care of livestock. They have brought their flocks and their herds and all that they have.' 46:33 Pharaoh will summon you and say, 'What is your occupation?' 46:34 Tell him, 'Your servants have taken care of cattle from our youth until now, both we and our fathers,' so that you may live in the land of Goshen, for everyone who takes care of sheep is disgusting to the Egyptians." Prayer Lord, may I not be afraid as I step out in faith and go where You send me. Commentary Jacon/Israel gathers everything that his people can transport and heads to Egypt. He stops to make a sacrifice to God and during the night God gives him a vision to encourage him on his journey It is interesting to note that God knew then that Joseph would use the famine as a tool to enslave all of the peoples in Egypt, trading grain for all of their money, then all of their cattle, then for their freedom. And he would give it all to Pharoah. The people of Jacob/Israel were headed into what was to become a land of slavery, but it was a land where they could multiply in great numbers, and one that God promised he would /"... certainly bring you back from there."/ The descendants of Jacob/Israel were listed as a matter of historical documentation. Joseph instructs his family to deceive Pharaoh, telling him that they tended cattle, because he wanted to give them Goshen but "/... everyone who takes care of sheep is disgusting to the Egyptians./" Interaction Consider this: Joseph created a nation of slaves to benefit Pharaoh, his use of power went far beyond what he had originally proposed to Pharaoh as a solution to the famine. Discuss this: Why would God allow Jacob/Israel's people to relocate to a land of slaves? Reflect on this: Joesph's integrity had limits as he had no problem with his family deceiving Pharaoh. Share this: When have you experienced, or observed, someone who was generally of high-integrity forget their integrity for the sake of family or friends, or abuse their power in unexpected ways? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any place where you may be careless about integrity for the sake of temporary benefit to family or friends. Action: I will carefully consider if I am selling-out my integrity to assist family or friends. If so I will make things right. If not I will celebrate God's victory in that part of my life. Be Specific __________________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: Genesis 47 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sun Jul 25 22:03:48 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2010 22:03:48 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Monday Genesis 47 Message-ID: <4C4CED04.9020404@bibleseven.com> Monday Genesis 47 Joseph's Wise Administration 47:1 Joseph went and told Pharaoh, "My father, my brothers, their flocks and herds, and all that they own have arrived from the land of Canaan. They are now in the land of Goshen." 47:2 He took five of his brothers and introduced them to Pharaoh. 47:3 Pharaoh said to Joseph's brothers, "What is your occupation?" They said to Pharaoh, "Your servants take care of flocks, just as our ancestors did." 47:4 Then they said to Pharaoh, "We have come to live as temporary residents in the land. There is no pasture for your servants' flocks because the famine is severe in the land of Canaan. So now, please let your servants live in the land of Goshen." 47:5 Pharaoh said to Joseph, "Your father and your brothers have come to you. 47:6 The land of Egypt is before you; settle your father and your brothers in the best region of the land. They may live in the land of Goshen. If you know of any highly capable men among them, put them in charge of my livestock." 47:7 Then Joseph brought in his father Jacob and presented him before Pharaoh. Jacob blessed Pharaoh. 47:8 Pharaoh said to Jacob, "How long have you lived?" 47:9 Jacob said to Pharaoh, "All the years of my travels are 130. All the years of my life have been few and painful; the years of my travels are not as long as those of my ancestors." 47:10 Then Jacob blessed Pharaoh and went out from his presence. 47:11 So Joseph settled his father and his brothers. He gave them territory in the land of Egypt, in the best region of the land, the land of Rameses, just as Pharaoh had commanded. 47:12 Joseph also provided food for his father, his brothers, and all his father's household, according to the number of their little children. Prayer Lord, Your promised Jacob/Israel that it was good and safe for he and his people to relocate to Egypt for a time -- Your promise was kept way beyond what he could have imagined. Commentary When Joseph presented his family to Pharaoh he referred to flocks and herds, therefore he admitted that they were keepers of sheep (flocks) but added a reference to herds so that they maintained some credibility -- recalling that Joseph had warned them that Egyptians thought shepherds of sheep were disgusting. Pharaoh, based on his experience with Joseph, inquired "If you know of any highly capable men among them, put them in charge of my livestock." Joseph then introduces his father to Pharaoh who inquires as to his age to which Jacob/Israel replies 130 years -- brief and pain-filled but not so long or as challenging as the years and travels of his ancestors. Jacob/Israel "blessed" Pharaoh, which would have been thanks for his kindness in elevating and preserving Joseph and to them in allowing their relocation to Egypt. Pharaoh commanded that Joseph locate his family in the finest land within Egypt, more than fulfilling God's promise to Jacob/Israel that it was good for them to relocate to Egypt for a time. Interaction Consider this Joseph had so earned the trust of Pharaoh that he hoped for more good men among his family members. Discuss this Compare and contrast the life-span and the challenges of Jacob/Israel to his ancestors, Abraham and Issac. Reflect on this Jacob/Israel and his people were dying in Canaan and God relocated them to Egypt, not any place in Egypt, but the best land there was. Share this When has God blessed you far beyond what you expected? Who have you told and how have you thanks Him with praise and obedience? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you opportunities to tell the story of His many blessings. Action: I agree to take appropriate advantage of every opportunity to share the story of God's blessings, as an encouragement to fellow believers, and as an evangelical/missionary testimony to those who may be considering-Christ. Be Specific _______________________________________________________ Tuesday's text will be: Genesis 47:13-26 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Mon Jul 26 21:11:30 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 21:11:30 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Tuesday Genesis 47:13-26 Message-ID: <4C4E3242.5030503@bibleseven.com> Tuesday Genesis 47:13-26 Joseph's Wise Administration (continued) 47:13 But there was no food in all the land because the famine was very severe; the land of Egypt and the land of Canaan wasted away because of the famine. 47:14 Joseph collected all the money that could be found in the land of Egypt and in the land of Canaan as payment for the grain they were buying. Then Joseph brought the money into Pharaoh's palace. 47:15 When the money from the lands of Egypt and Canaan was used up, all the Egyptians came to Joseph and said, "Give us food! Why should we die before your very eyes because our money has run out?" 47:16 Then Joseph said, "If your money is gone, bring your livestock, and I will give you food in exchange for your livestock." 47:17 So they brought their livestock to Joseph, and Joseph gave them food in exchange for their horses, the livestock of their flocks and herds, and their donkeys. He got them through that year by giving them food in exchange for livestock. 47:18 When that year was over, they came to him the next year and said to him, "We cannot hide from our lord that the money is used up and the livestock and the animals belong to our lord. Nothing remains before our lord except our bodies and our land. 47:19 Why should we die before your very eyes, both we and our land? Buy us and our land in exchange for food, and we, with our land, will become Pharaoh's slaves. Give us seed that we may live and not die. Then the land will not become desolate." 47:20 So Joseph bought all the land of Egypt for Pharaoh. Each of the Egyptians sold his field, for the famine was severe. So the land became Pharaoh's. 47:21 Joseph made all the people slaves from one end of Egypt's border to the other end of it. 47:22 But he did not purchase the land of the priests because the priests had an allotment from Pharaoh and they ate from their allotment that Pharaoh gave them. That is why they did not sell their land. 47:23 Joseph said to the people, "Since I have bought you and your land today for Pharaoh, here is seed for you. Cultivate the land. 47:24 When you gather in the crop, give one-fifth of it to Pharaoh, and the rest will be yours for seed for the fields and for you to eat, including those in your households and your little children." 47:25 They replied, "You have saved our lives! You are showing us favor, and we will be Pharaoh's slaves." 47:26 So Joseph made it a statute, which is in effect to this day throughout the land of Egypt: One-fifth belongs to Pharaoh. Only the land of the priests did not become Pharaoh's. Prayer Lord, when people are hungry they become easy prey for manipulation, may we be good stewards as You meet our physical needs so that we are never vulnerable to the world. Commentary Joseph uses the famine to systematically bring all of the money, all of the livestock, all of the land, and all of the people under the ownership and control of the Pharaoh. After making the people slaves without money, land, or livestock he offers them seed to plant Pharaoh's crops. Interaction Consider this: One of the seeds Joseph planted is of the opportunity for a future Pharaoh to add his family to the population of slaves in Egypt. Discuss this: What were Joseph's options? Buy greater loyalty of the people to the Pharaoh through the giving of the grain to them? Barter a percentage of crops, a lease of the land, only a percentage of the livestock, and/or a term of free-labor instead of slavery and the taking of all of the money and the land and the livestock and the freedom of the people? Reflect on this: Joseph's family was not included in the enslavement of the people and the acquisition of their money, land, and livestock. With only those closely associated with the Pharaoh and the priests still free a great deal more power was concentrated in a ruling class and the potential for great jealousy toward the non-Egyptian Hebrews planted. Share this: When have you observed the concentration of power and resources in a community or a region/nation where not everyone was treated equally? What sort of troubles did that create? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where you may be vulnerable to losing your freedom because you are becoming, or have become, too dependent upon others -- who do not serve the Lord God. Action: I agree to make an intentional effort to get out of debt, to reduce spending, to become as energy-independent as possible, to grow as much food as possible, to network with others to share food and other resources, and to otherwise limit my actual and potential dependence upon government should circumstances become economically difficult - as described in today's Bible text. Be Specific ________________________________________________________ Wednesday's text will be: Genesis 47:27-48:4 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon Jul 26 22:43:33 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:43:33 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] IBM + Canonical = DB/2 on Ubuntu? Message-ID: <4C4E47D5.4080902@lightlink.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/21/ibm_canonical_db2_ubuntu/ IBM and Canonical have forged a two part deal that brings DB/2 to Ubuntu 10.04 Server Edition. Will be implemented to run in Amazon's EC2 or Canonical's own Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud. Ubuntu 10.04 Server Edition also gets IBM DB/2 certification, which IS a big deal. -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Mon Jul 26 22:44:49 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2010 22:44:49 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] IBM + Canonical = DB/2 on Ubuntu? Message-ID: <4C4E4821.1060108@lightlink.com> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/21/ibm_canonical_db2_ubuntu/ IBM and Canonical have forged a two part deal that brings DB/2 to Ubuntu 10.04 Server Edition. Will be implemented to run in Amazon's EC2 or Canonical's own Ubuntu Enterprise Cloud. Ubuntu 10.04 Server Edition also gets IBM DB/2 certification, which is a big deal. -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Tue Jul 27 12:33:11 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 12:33:11 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] The quiet threat: Cyber spies are already in your systems....MOST OFTEN MickySoft! Message-ID: <4C4F0A47.7070509@lightlink.com> Security experts believe that a growing number of companies are being spied upon electronically by sources from other countries, most notably China . What makes these attacks so troublesome is that their techniques are often undetectable by the usual security tools. Electronic spies try to get into systems without causing disruptions, so they can quietly gather information over a period of time. http://www.infoworld.com/d/security-central/the-quiet-threat-cyber-spies-are-already-in-your-systems-404?source=IFWNLE_nlt_daily_2010-07-26 -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Tue Jul 27 19:05:46 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2010 19:05:46 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Wednesday Genesis 47:27 - 48:4 Message-ID: <4C4F664A.8040309@bibleseven.com> Wednesday Genesis 47:27 - 48:4 47:27 Israel settled in the land of Egypt, in the land of Goshen, and they owned land there. They were fruitful and increased rapidly in number. 47:28 Jacob lived in the land of Egypt seventeen years; the years of Jacob's life were 147 in all. 47:29 The time for Israel to die approached, so he called for his son Joseph and said to him, "If now I have found favor in your sight, put your hand under my thigh and show me kindness and faithfulness. Do not bury me in Egypt, 47:30 but when I rest with my fathers, carry me out of Egypt and bury me in their burial place." Joseph said, "I will do as you say." 47:31 Jacob said, "Swear to me that you will do so." So Joseph gave him his word. Then Israel bowed down at the head of his bed. Manasseh and Ephraim 48:1 After these things Joseph was told, "Your father is weakening." So he took his two sons Manasseh and Ephraim with him. 48:2 When Jacob was told, "Your son Joseph has just come to you," Israel regained strength and sat up on his bed. 48:3 Jacob said to Joseph, "The sovereign God appeared to me at Luz in the land of Canaan and blessed me. 48:4 He said to me, 'I am going to make you fruitful and will multiply you. I will make you into a group of nations, and I will give this land to your descendants as an everlasting possession.' Prayer Lord, Your prophesy is revealed at the perfect time, may we serve You in faithful and patient-trust and not demand to know every detail of the future. Commentary God had placed the Hebrews in the best land in Egypt and they were not initially subject to the Pharaoh's ownership of them and all that they owned, so they flourished. At 147 years old and near-death Jacob/Israel copied the priestly vow that Abraham administered to the servant he was sending to find a wife for Issac and had Joseph swear, with his hand under his thigh -- an intimate and submissive act -- to bury him in Canaan and not in Egypt. Joseph gave his word. A short while later Joseph heard that Jacob/Israel was fading and brought his two sons to him. Jacob/Israel reminded Joseph of God's prophesy to him -- one that contained an additional detail not in that given to Abraham and Issac before him "/I will make you into a group of nations ..."/ Interaction Consider this: The Hebrews multiplied financially in a fertile land which allowed them to benefit from their hard work and numerically as they were blessed by God in fulfillment of His prophesy. Discuss this: Jacob/Israel never forgot that Egypt was not his home, nor was it to become the permanent home of his people, he used the symbolism of his burial in Canaan as a reminder to everyone of the promise of God to one day return them to the Promised Land. Reflect on this: God has revealed to Jacob/Israel and Joseph, through him, His plan to make His people a nation of tribes for the first time, this would change the nature of their leadership in recognition of the leadership needs of their increased numbers. Share this: When have you been a part of a growing fellowship or other organization and experienced the demands of that growth for shared leadership? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where more leaders may be needed, and where a clarification of foundational values may also need to be emphasized. Action: I will prayerfully see if I need to be prepared for leadership, or if I need to be preparing others, or both -- and I will do so. I will also prayerfully consider if our growth has weakened, or threatens to weaken, our remembrance of our foundational purpose and values -- and I will do what I can to remind myself and others of them. Be Specific ____________________________________________________ Thursday's text will be: Genesis 48:5-22 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From chris at adebenham.com Wed Jul 28 05:14:12 2010 From: chris at adebenham.com (Chris Debenham) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:14:12 +1000 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sword libraries from C Message-ID: Has anyone had any experience with programming/accessing sword bible libraries from C? I can only find bindings for C++ and I'm not familiar enough with accessing C++ stuff from C Thanks, Chris From raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za Wed Jul 28 08:15:55 2010 From: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za (Raoul Snyman) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:15:55 +0200 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sword libraries from C In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <373381a0fe1480f686ad396d9080885f@localhost> On Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:14:12 +1000, Chris Debenham wrote: > Has anyone had any experience with programming/accessing sword bible > libraries from C? > I can only find bindings for C++ and I'm not familiar enough with > accessing C++ stuff from C Isn't Xiphos (GnomeSword) written in C? -- Raoul Snyman, B.Tech IT (Software Engineering) Saturn Laboratories m: 082 550 3754 e: raoul.snyman at saturnlaboratories.co.za w: www.saturnlaboratories.co.za b: blog.saturnlaboratories.co.za From karl at kleinpaste.org Wed Jul 28 08:25:44 2010 From: karl at kleinpaste.org (Karl Kleinpaste) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 08:25:44 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sword libraries from C In-Reply-To: <373381a0fe1480f686ad396d9080885f@localhost> (Raoul Snyman's message of "Wed, 28 Jul 2010 14:15:55 +0200") References: <373381a0fe1480f686ad396d9080885f@localhost> Message-ID: Raoul Snyman writes: > Isn't Xiphos (GnomeSword) written in C? A mix of C and C++. Some of the code is rather old (10+ yrs) and crufty, using wrapper functions that straddle the border. I improve this sort of thing as I go when I can, which is not often enough. Sooner or later, however, and wrappers notwithstanding, to use Sword you must speak C++. Feel free to check out a copy of Xiphos and borrow whatever you need. svn co https://gnomesword.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/gnomesword/trunk (Yes, the SourceForge project name is still "gnomesword", because SF still has troubles with project renaming.) From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Wed Jul 28 19:55:59 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2010 19:55:59 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Thursday Genesis 48:5-22 Message-ID: <4C50C38F.1020206@bibleseven.com> Thursday Genesis 48:5-22 48:5 "Now, as for your two sons, who were born to you in the land of Egypt before I came to you in Egypt, they will be mine. Ephraim and Manasseh will be mine just as Reuben and Simeon are. 48:6 Any children that you father after them will be yours; they will be listed under the names of their brothers in their inheritance. 48:7 But as for me, when I was returning from Paddan, Rachel died -- to my sorrow -- in the land of Canaan. It happened along the way, some distance from Ephrath. So I buried her there on the way to Ephrath" (that is, Bethlehem). 48:8 When Israel saw Joseph's sons, he asked, "Who are these?" 48:9 Joseph said to his father, "They are the sons God has given me in this place." His father said, "Bring them to me so I may bless them." 48:10 Now Israel's eyes were failing because of his age; he was not able to see well. So Joseph brought his sons near to him, and his father kissed them and embraced them. 48:11 Israel said to Joseph, "I never expected to see you again, but now God has allowed me to see your children too." 48:12 So Joseph moved them from Israel's knees and bowed down with his face to the ground. 48:13 Joseph positioned them; he put Ephraim on his right hand across from Israel's left hand, and Manasseh on his left hand across from Israel's right hand. Then Joseph brought them closer to his father. 48:14 Israel stretched out his right hand and placed it on Ephraim's head, although he was the younger. Crossing his hands, he put his left hand on Manasseh's head, for Manasseh was the firstborn. 48:15 Then he blessed Joseph and said, "May the God before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac walked -- the God who has been my shepherd all my life long to this day, 48:16 the Angel who has protected me from all harm -- bless these boys. May my name be named in them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac. May they grow into a multitude on the earth." 48:17 When Joseph saw that his father placed his right hand on Ephraim's head, it displeased him. So he took his father's hand to move it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. 48:18 Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this is the firstborn. Put your right hand on his head." 48:19 But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He too will become a nation and he too will become great. In spite of this, his younger brother will be even greater and his descendants will become a multitude of nations." 48:20 So he blessed them that day, saying, "By you will Israel bless, saying, 'May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh.'" So he put Ephraim before Manasseh. 48:21 Then Israel said to Joseph, "I am about to die, but God will be with you and will bring you back to the land of your fathers. 48:22 As one who is above your brothers, I give to you the mountain slope, which I took from the Amorites with my sword and my bow." Prayer Lord, may I remember that there is a difference between hurt and harm, the way that Jacob/Israel understood in his prayer for Joseph's children Commentary Jacob/Israel -- who had acknowledged many hurts to Pharaoh and then the loss of Rachel to Joseph - asked God to cause the angel that kept him from harm to also be with Joseph's sons. Joseph thought that Jacob/Israel was troubled by blindness, or confusion, when he was blessing the younger Ephraim before Manasseh -- but it was God's will. Ephraim and Manasseh will numbered among the tribes, one taking Joseph's place and the other Levi's -- who would be a distributed people serving as priests but not as one of the 12-peer tribes. He repeated God's prophesy that Joseph and the rest of the extended family would one day return /"... to the land of your fathers",/ then reiterated his favoritism by giving Joseph "/... the mountain slope/" as symbolic of Joseph being above his brothers in favor. Interaction Consider this: Jacob/Israel , at the direction of God, makes two of Joseph's sons peers with Joseph's brothers as heads of tribes. Perhaps as a reward for Joseph's faithful and personally-sacrificial service. Discuss this: The angels of God are sent to protect us from harm but not from hurt, are not hurts often a vehicle for learning? Reflect on this: Once again God directs that the first-born is not always the leader among the sons. Share this: What have you been taught about the role of angels in the life of believers? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you the times when God allowed you to experience hurt but protected you from harm. Action: I will thank the Lord God for allowing hurts where I needed to be taught, or I was His tool to teach another, and that He has protected me from harm. I will share those stories with a fellow believer as a praise and with someone considering-Christ as an encouragement to surrender to Him. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Friday's text will be: Genesis 49 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Thu Jul 29 01:01:26 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 01:01:26 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Reject UltraViolet DRM | DefectiveByDesign.org Message-ID: <4C510B26.8030602@lightlink.com> http://www.defectivebydesign.org/ultraviolet -- "Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." Thomas Jefferson -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Thu Jul 29 15:26:33 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2010 15:26:33 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Friday Genesis 49 Message-ID: <4C51D5E9.3040704@bibleseven.com> Friday Genesis 49 The Blessing of Jacob 49:1 Jacob called for his sons and said, "Gather together so I can tell you what will happen to you in the future. 49:2 "Assemble and listen, you sons of Jacob; listen to Israel, your father. 49:3 Reuben, you are my firstborn, my might and the beginning of my strength, outstanding in dignity, outstanding in power. 49:4 You are destructive like water and will not excel, for you got on your father's bed, then you defiled it -- he got on my couch! 49:5 Simeon and Levi are brothers, weapons of violence are their knives! 49:6 O my soul, do not come into their council, do not be united to their assembly, my heart, for in their anger they have killed men, and for pleasure they have hamstrung oxen. 49:7 Cursed be their anger, for it was fierce, and their fury, for it was cruel. I will divide them in Jacob, and scatter them in Israel! 49:8 Judah, your brothers will praise you. Your hand will be on the neck of your enemies, your father's sons will bow down before you. 49:9 You are a lion's cub, Judah, from the prey, my son, you have gone up. He crouches and lies down like a lion; like a lioness -- who will rouse him? 49:10 The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs; the nations will obey him. 49:11 Binding his foal to the vine, and his colt to the choicest vine, he will wash his garments in wine, his robes in the blood of grapes. 49:12 His eyes will be dark from wine, and his teeth white from milk. 49:13 Zebulun will live by the haven of the sea and become a haven for ships; his border will extend to Sidon. 49:14 Issachar is a strong-boned donkey lying down between two saddlebags. 49:15 When he sees a good resting place, and the pleasant land, he will bend his shoulder to the burden and become a slave laborer. 49:16 Dan will judge his people as one of the tribes of Israel. 49:17 May Dan be a snake beside the road, a viper by the path, that bites the heels of the horse so that its rider falls backward. 49:18 I wait for your deliverance, O Lord. 49:19 Gad will be raided by marauding bands, but he will attack them at their heels. 49:20 Asher's food will be rich, and he will provide delicacies to royalty. 49:21 Naphtali is a free running doe, he speaks delightful words. 49:22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough near a spring whose branches climb over the wall. 49:23 The archers will attack him, they will shoot at him and oppose him. 49:24 But his bow will remain steady, and his hands will be skillful; because of the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob, because of the Shepherd, the Rock of Israel, 49:25 because of the God of your father, who will help you, because of the sovereign God, who will bless you with blessings from the sky above, blessings from the deep that lies below, and blessings of the breasts and womb. 49:26 The blessings of your father are greater than the blessings of the eternal mountains or the desirable things of the age-old hills. They will be on the head of Joseph and on the brow of the prince of his brothers. 49:27 Benjamin is a ravenous wolf; in the morning devouring the prey, and in the evening dividing the plunder." 49:28 These are the twelve tribes of Israel. This is what their father said to them when he blessed them. He gave each of them an appropriate blessing. 49:29 Then he instructed them, "I am about to go to my people. Bury me with my fathers in the cave in the field of Ephron the Hittite. 49:30 It is the cave in the field of Machpelah, near Mamre in the land of Canaan, which Abraham bought for a burial plot from Ephron the Hittite. 49:31 There they buried Abraham and his wife Sarah; there they buried Isaac and his wife Rebekah; and there I buried Leah. 49:32 The field and the cave in it were acquired from the sons of Heth." 49:33 When Jacob finished giving these instructions to his sons, he pulled his feet up onto the bed, breathed his last breath, and went to his people. Prayer Lord, Your knowledge of the future is accurate, Your understanding of the heart of man clear, and Your wisdom perfect. Commentary On his death bed Jacob/Israel gathers his family to communicate God's blessing and prophesy for each of those who would become the 12 political Tribes, plus the special priestly Tribe. Reuben, despite being the first born, was denied leadership due to his effort to manipulate power by his sin against his father with Behulah. The tribe by his name would tend toward the destructive and will not excel. Simeon is called-out for his cruelty, together with Levi, and told that the tribes by their name would be divided in Jacob (physical inheritance) and Israel (tribal roles). Levi is called-out for his cruelty, together with Simeon, and told that the tribes by their name would be divided in Jacob (physical inheritance) and Israel (tribal roles). Judah is lifted to the role of leader of the 12 Tribes and is identified as the next in the line that will flow from him to Jesus the Christ /"The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs; the nations will obey him."/ Zebulun's tribe will be fishermen, sailors, and traders. Issachar's tribe will readily exchange freedom for comfort, working hard but as slaves. Dan's tribe will be a means of God's accountability to fellow tribes. Gad's tribe would struggle to remain in freedom and at peace but would cleverly harass their enemies even though facing great odds. Asher's tribe would be chefs and servants of royalty, perhaps looking ahead to the Israelite kings and/or the service of foreign kings while in captivity. Naphtali's tribe would be artists and poets prone to constant movement. Joseph would become two tribes though his sons, adopted by Jacob/Israel as peers to Joseph and his brothers: Ephraim and Manasseh were already blessed and given their prophesies in 48:5-12, one taking Joseph's place and the other Levi's. Benjamin's tribe would be effective hunter-warriors who would acquire clothing, food, and other resources for the other tribes. He concluded with an insistence that they bury him with Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Rebekah, and Leah. Interaction Consider this: The rest of the Old Testament revolves around the Tribes of Israel and these blessings and prophesies serve as a guideline to understanding. Discuss this: How does the blessing and prophesy of Judah remind you of Jesus the Christ? Reflect on this: Jacob/Israel was not communicating his personal opinion but the blessing and prophesy given to him by God Share this: Where in the Old Testament have you observed the blessing and prophesy that Jacob/Israel communicated to his sons actualized in the generations to come? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you choices that you are making that make it more or less probable God will choose to bless you. Action: I will listen to the Holy Spirit and emphasize those areas of my life where I am living rightly before Him and repent, turn away from, those where I am in rebellion -- no matter how minor. Where I am uncertain I will seek the prayerful counsel of one who is Biblically qualified as an "elder". Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Saturday's text will be: Genesis 50 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fmiller at lightlink.com Fri Jul 30 19:58:31 2010 From: fmiller at lightlink.com (Fred A. Miller) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 19:58:31 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Yep......I KNOW I'm gonna "stir the pot" with this one! Message-ID: <4C536727.7080608@lightlink.com> *The Church is _Not_ the "Bride of Christ"* ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Scroll The normal Laodicean response when our pet doctrines, practices, or interpretations of scripture are challenged is _anger_ followed by demonstrative rejection of the offender as though someone has kicked our pet dog for no reason at all. But what is the Holy Spirit's response? And what is the response that Paul praised when he said that the Bereans were more "noble" than the Thessalonicans? What follows is a "hard teaching," but it will yield a harvest of light for those who pursue it with a Berean spirit. *May He grant you a spirit of wisdom and revelation as you examine the scriptures to see if what has been written here is true.* What I have learned after thirty years of intense Bible study and discipleship is that _anger _and demonstrative rejection of the offending teacher of error is *_not_ *an appropriate response when my espoused doctrines, practices, and interpretations of scripture are challenged. What I have noticed when those doctrines, practices, and interpretations of scripture that I have received (by revelation), believed in my heart, and confirmed time and again are challenged, is that my appropriate response is to be _grieved_ in the spirit just as the Holy Spirit is grieved. Yet, when a valid case is made for a differing opinion, my response _should_ be the same as the Bereans who examined the scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true or not. Some claim "righteous anger" when their doctrinal beliefs are challenged, but "righteous anger" is the anger prompted by the Holy Spirit for reasons only the Holy Spirit knows. And righteous anger is seldom prompted by the Holy Spirit in most believers. Our anger when our beliefs are challenged is typically _personal_, as though we ourselves are being attacked. And _that_ response is inappropriate. Early in my walk with the Lord, the church I was attending had an interim pastor who taught biblical Hebrew and Greek at a local Christian University. He chose his own pet subject, amillenialism (the belief that there will be no literal millennial reign of Christ after the resurrection of the saints), for a series of lectures. And he impressed us appropriately by translating directly out of the Hebrew and Greek scriptures. Yet, even the most unlearned among us recognized that there was no "life" in what he was teaching, and, for the first time in my walk with the Lord, I recognized that I was _grieved_, not angered, by what he was teaching. His erudite, but deeply deceived teaching found no fertile ground in that congregation. Yet, it was _not_ because we were clinging inordinately to an alternate view. It was because his teaching was not anointed with the light of the Holy Spirit, and by the Spirit we _knew_ it. My response, and the response of others was to thoroughly and prayerfully examine the scriptures in regard to the return of Christ, not to refute _him_, but to determine and confirm the truth for ourselves, which was and _always_ is, an appropriate response. So...when I kick your pet dog by telling you that the church is _not_ the "bride of Christ," and that this oft repeated, automatically believed, "feel good", but erroneous, interpretation of scripture, is in reality a startling example of the twin demons of _presumption_ and _assumption_ prevalent in the Laodicean church (the church that blends error with truth and does not know the difference)...what will _you_ do? Will you respond with anger and demonstrative rejection, or will you be a "noble" Berean and hang in for a dose of truth? _Definitions:_ *Presumption *is the inaccurate and inappropriate interpretation of scripture, obviously lacking in revelatory light from the Holy Spirit, and resulting in erroneous doctrines, practices, and interpretations of scripture. Nor is presumption necessarily the result of faulty hermeneutics. It is generally the result of soulish bias and a lack of dependence on the Holy Spirit to _guide_ us into all truth. *Assumption* is the adoption by believers of various doctrines, practices, and interpretations of scripture from an "authority" other than the Holy Spirit guided exegesis of scripture. These "authorities" include the Pope, study Bibles, our denomination, our seminary, our pastor, our favorite TV or radio preacher-teacher, etc. And, in many cases, we may _think_ we have examined scripture appropriately, but typically we have only adopted the proof texts presented by our chosen authorities. What does the Lord say about this _assumptive_ approach to receiving and believing various doctrines and interpretations of scripture? / /*/"But you are not to be called rabbi/**/...(teacher/**/)..., for _you_ _have_ _one_ _teacher_, and you are all brothers. And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Neither be called instructors, for _you_ _have_ _one_ _instructor_, the Christ." _Matthew 23:8-11 ESV_/* (insert and emphasis are the author's) This passage does not negate the five-fold ministry, but those whom we call "teacher" (including the author) and those institutions we have adopted as "authorities", are, at best, good facilitators of His gift, and, at worst, teaching erroneous, assumed doctrines, even, doctrines of demons. If the disciple is asked, therefore, "What is your authority (source) for believing this doctrine or that doctrine or this interpretation or that interpretation or following this practice or that practice?", there is only _one_ correct answer. It is not "the Pope." It is not "my pastor." It is not "my denomination." It is not "the prophet," and it is not "the Holy Bible." (What? Did I kick your pet dog _again_?) The correct answer is, "My authority is the Word of God, Jesus Christ, who is the Spirit of Truth, my Teacher, and who speaks His living word into my heart as I rightly divide the scriptures by thorough inductive study and meditation, waiting on Him to guide me into all truth appropriately as He pleases." All else is hearsay, and, sometimes, heresy. _*Is the church the "bride of Christ"?*_ The dispensational distinctive of a pre-tribulation resurrection-"rapture" of church only saints, without a single direct scripture to support it, has spawned the ever-so-popular teaching that the church is the "bride of Christ," and this "feel good" teaching, so precious to the Laodicean church, is itself formulated on indirect, metaphorical _presumption._ Assumptive church tradition identifies the church as _the_ "bride" of Christ based primarily on Paul's metaphorical statement in 2 Corinthians 11:2 - */I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him./* Search as you might, there are _no_ specific references to the church as _the_ "bride", and in this passage Paul was using _analogy_ rather than speaking in literal terms. Another example of Paul's use of analogy is in the letter to the Galatians where Paul said that he was in the pain of childbirth again /until Christ be formed in you/ (in the Galatian believers). Was Paul saying that he was the literal "mother" of the Galatian church? Of course not. Paul was using a metaphor to demonstrate his intense concern for the Galatian believers, like a mother's concern for her baby before it is born. Nor did Paul have authority to "promise" the believers at Corinth to Jesus. Their relationship with Jesus was already established by the new birth as they were mystically united with Christ (adopted as "sons") and with all fellow believers (the other adopted "sons") by the circumcision and indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Paul's statement was metaphorical, and an expression of his apostolic calling. He was using an example that all of the men and women of Corinth would understand, the presentation of a chaste virgin bride to her husband by the father of the bride. As a metaphor the meaning is clear. It was the Lord's will for Paul to build up the church at Corinth so that they would be exemplary in their faith and obedience, just as it is the father's duty to make sure his daughter is pure and chaste at the time of her marriage. Paul is, therefore, _not_ presenting doctrinal truth in this passage. If he was presenting doctrinal truth we would hear the theme repeated elsewhere and, in all likelihood, by other authors. And, more importantly, it would _not_ contradict established interpretations of scripture and doctrine, supported by _direct_ _scriptural_ _evidence_ rather than metaphorical _presumption._ As an example, when Paul writes about the church being /the body of Christ /he is being literal. There are numerous specific uses of that term in Paul's letters, and these uses are combined with specific doctrinal truth about the believer's incorporation "in" Christ and His Spirit "in" us, so that we are, in a literal sense, _the_ "body" of Christ in the earth. That being true, how could the literal "body" of Christ also be the literal "bride" of Christ? It _is_ compatible for the church to have a literal relationship with the Father as adopted sons and daughters ("sons of the bride chamber") and still be incorporated into the "body" of Jesus Christ, because our adoption as sons and daughters of the Father is the _result_ of our spiritual incorporation into the Son. We are the sons and daughters of God _because_ we are incorporated in the Son. They are not mutually exclusive as "body" and "bride" are. Instead, they are mutually supportive. As adopted sons and daughters of the Father, we _are_ already kinsmen of Christ, and, as literal adopted /sons of God/, are we to marry _the_ Son of God? In addition, we have already received His name and His authority. Does a bride receive her husband's name and authority before she is wed? Our literal, _specific_, scriptural identification in regard to the marriage supper of the Lamb is that of "guests," (unmarried kinsmen, "children of the bridechamber"). The KJV uses a more literal translation, when it identifies the "guests" of the marriage party as "children (sons) of the bridechamber", a term that would apply to the bridegroom's close relatives, *including adopted brothers and sisters.* This interpretation comes from the Lord's literal identification of His disciples as "guests" and Himself as the literal "bridegroom." /*How can the _guests_* /...("children of the bridechamber" KJV)...*/of the _bridegroom_ mourn while he is with them? The time will come when the _bridegroom_ will be taken from them; then they will fast/*/./_ Matthew 9:15 NIV_/ /(emphasis is the author's) *Scripture* *Literal Identity * *of the church* *Identity of Jesus Christ* Matthew 9:15 We are the literal _guests_ - unmarried kinsmen - "sons of the bride chamber" - virgins - _not_ the bride He referred to Himself as the literal bridegroom Colossians 1:18 We are the spiritual body of Christ He is the head of His spiritual body Galatians 3:26; John 3:16 We are adopted sons of God He is the only begotten Son of God The _specific_ identification of the church as "the body of Christ," adopted sons of God, and "sons of the bride chamber" (unmarried kinsmen of the bridegroom) all _contradict_ our assumptive identification of the church as the "bride." But, more importantly, _the_ "bride" and "wife" of the Lamb is _specifically_ identified in scripture. */ And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a _bride_ adorned for her husband /*/. _Revelation 21:2 NASB_/ /*Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, ^" Come here, I will show you _the_ _bride_, the wife of the Lamb." And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God*//*.* _Revelation 21:9,10 NASB_/ (emphasis is the author's) Although the description in Revelation 21:2 of the new Jerusalem as the "bride" of Christ could be interpreted as a metaphor, the statement in Revelation 21:9,10 _specifically_ identifies this "bride", the new Jerusalem, as the *bride* and the *wife* of the Lamb (Jesus Christ). The literal "bride" in these verses (Revelation 21:9) has already been identified as the new Jerusalem, and Revelation 21:10-27 goes on to describe the "bride" in detail right down to the names of the tribes of Israel written on the twelve gates. Would the angel of the Lord say, "I will show you the bride", meaning the church, and then immediately provide a lengthy description of the new Jerusalem? Absolutely not. The time frame of reference for Revelation 21 is after the renovation of the earth by fire when the holy city descends out of heaven to take its permanent place on the renovated, sanctified earth, and, at that point, it is already the "wife" of the Lamb, meaning that the marriage took place previously. Therefore, the new Jerusalem is the literal "bride" of Christ, not the church. The church will inhabit the new Jerusalem along with old testament saints, tribulation saints, and millennium saints. It is not erroneous, therefore, in a metaphorical sense, to identify the church _with_ the "bride" of Christ. But it is erroneous to identify the church as _the_ literal "bride", and most who use this terminology, adopted from _dispensational_ theologians, are using it in a manner that excludes old testament saints, tribulation saints, and millennium saints from the definition. In Revelation 22:17 we read/, *The Spirit and the bride say, "Come " And let the one who hears say, "Come " And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost.* / If we insert "the new Jerusalem" in place of "the bride" the verse continues to make sense. "...*/The Spirit and the new Jerusalem/ *...(the City of God)...*say, 'Come'..."* The verse makes sense here because the invitation is to all those whose names have been written in the Lamb's Book of Life from Adam all the way through the millennium. If we substitute "the church" for "the bride" the verse becomes confusing and more than a little _arrogant_. *"The Spirit and the church say, 'Come'..."* What? The _church_ is inviting all the other saints? No. No. No. We are among the invited. In spite of the obvious identification of the "bride" as being the new Jerusalem, dispensational theologians will argue that the Spirit and the church are responding to the Lord's statement back up in Revelation 22:12. Instead it is the Spirit and the new Jerusalem, the City of God, who are issuing the invitation to all whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life. The one who "hears" the invitation is responding directly to the Lord with, "come" (Lord Jesus), and the one who is thirsty is responding to the invitation by the Spirit. Note also in this passage that "His bride" has been permitted to dress or adorn herself with fine linen, which is the righteousness of the saints. *The bride and the dress are clearly not one and the same. *The saints, then, in this passage are the "dress" or adornment of the literal bride, and the word, "saints", is inclusive of all those whose names are written in the Lamb's Book of Life, not _just_ the church (which is an example of extreme arrogance and a demonstration of Laodicean willingness to blend truth with error just because it sounds good and feels good to us). */ /*/ / */Let us rejoice and shout for joy [exulting and triumphant]! Let us celebrate and ascribe to Him glory and honor, for the marriage of the Lamb [at last] has come, and His bride has prepared herself. /* */She has been permitted to dress in fine (radiant) linen, dazzling and white-for the fine linen is (signifies, represents) the righteousness (the upright, just, and godly living, deeds, and conduct, and right standing with God) of the saints (God's holy people). /* */Then [the angel] said to me, Write this down: Blessed (happy, to be envied) are those who are summoned (invited, called) to the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he said to me [further], These are the true words (the genuine and exact declarations) of God. /*_Revelation 19:7-9 Amplified_ I do not know when the term, "the bride of Christ," was first used as an assumptive reference to the body of Christ, but it was _not_ used by Paul. Nor should it be used by us, no matter how useful that metaphor may seem to be, because that title, "the bride of Christ," was _not_ given to us by the Lord. A strange thing happens when the believer receives this truth or any other truth from the Holy Spirit and confirms it in his/her own heart by a thorough and prayerful examination of scripture. Once the Holy Spirit, our Counselor, the Spirit of Truth, has confirmed this truth in the believer's heart he/she will _grieve_, just as I grieve now, when they hear that term being used inappropriately by others who are still deceived by their assumption of that presumptuous interpretation of scripture. But why? Why is it important to the Lord for us to be accurate about such a seemingly harmless identification of ourselves as the lovely Laodicean "bride" (the one He has _promised_ to spew out of His mouth if we do not _repent_ of blending truth with error and not being able to tell the difference)? The answer, of course, is that *He* does _not_ identify us as His "bride." And our erroneous _assumption_ of that title, based on some original _presumption_ of metaphorical scripture, is not true and hinders our understanding of the Lord's will for the body of Christ, _especially_ in these end times. But, then, that's the point. Someone other than the Lord does not want us to know the truth. * * * For further study see also, *_The Olivet Prophecy _* and _*Who Are The Laodiceans?.* _* * * * * If this article has blessed you, (or even if it disturbed you) and you want to forward it to others, you may safely do so by using the "forward email" link below. ConstantContact does not capture the email addresses. If those you forward the email to want to receive email articles from me in the future, they will have to subscribe. * * Jim Sayles * * * -- "Gun control is like trying to reduce drunk driving by making it tougher for sober people to own cars." - Unknown -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ACCOUNT.IMAGE.2 Type: image/jpeg Size: 49124 bytes Desc: not available URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 30 20:53:58 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 20:53:58 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Yep......I KNOW I'm gonna "stir the pot" with this one! In-Reply-To: <4C536727.7080608@lightlink.com> References: <4C536727.7080608@lightlink.com> Message-ID: <4C537426.90401@bibleseven.com> I am not sure if there is any valued-added from this work, other than him trying to draw attention to himself by being controversial. His argument is about as weak as the one he critiques, not making either one more or less legitimate. And his conclusion: > The answer, of course, is that *He* does _not_ identify us as His "bride." ... fails to include a clear explanation of what the bride "Jerusalem" really is ( in his humble opinion, of course). Christ is an equal member of the Trinity who now is said to have taken a "bride", which means in a way the Father and the Holy Spirit are somehow also a party to this relationship. Then we are told that the "bride" is a city? Huh? Did I miss something? -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Fri Jul 30 21:19:04 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Fri, 30 Jul 2010 21:19:04 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Saturday Genesis 50 Message-ID: <4C537A08.1030505@bibleseven.com> Saturday Genesis 50 The Burials of Jacob and Joseph 50:1 Then Joseph hugged his father's face. He wept over him and kissed him. 50:2 Joseph instructed the physicians in his service to embalm his father, so the physicians embalmed Israel. 50:3 They took forty days, for that is the full time needed for embalming. The Egyptians mourned for him seventy days. 50:4 When the days of mourning had passed, Joseph said to Pharaoh's royal court, "If I have found favor in your sight, please say to Pharaoh, 50:5 'My father made me swear an oath. He said, "I am about to die. Bury me in my tomb that I dug for myself there in the land of Canaan." Now let me go and bury my father; then I will return.'" 50:6 So Pharaoh said, "Go and bury your father, just as he made you swear to do." 50:7 So Joseph went up to bury his father; all Pharaoh's officials went with him -- the senior courtiers of his household, all the senior officials of the land of Egypt, 50:8 all Joseph's household, his brothers, and his father's household. But they left their little children and their flocks and herds in the land of Goshen. 50:9 Chariots and horsemen also went up with him, so it was a very large entourage. 50:10 When they came to the threshing floor of Atad on the other side of the Jordan, they mourned there with very great and bitter sorrow. There Joseph observed a seven day period of mourning for his father. 50:11 When the Canaanites who lived in the land saw them mourning at the threshing floor of Atad, they said, "This is a very sad occasion for the Egyptians." That is why its name was called Abel Mizraim, which is beyond the Jordan. 50:12 So the sons of Jacob did for him just as he had instructed them. 50:13 His sons carried him to the land of Canaan and buried him in the cave of the field of Machpelah, near Mamre. This is the field Abraham purchased as a burial plot from Ephron the Hittite. 50:14 After he buried his father, Joseph returned to Egypt, along with his brothers and all who had accompanied him to bury his father. 50:15 When Joseph's brothers saw that their father was dead, they said, "What if Joseph bears a grudge and wants to repay us in full for all the harm we did to him?" 50:16 So they sent word to Joseph, saying, "Your father gave these instructions before he died: 50:17 'Tell Joseph this: Please forgive the sin of your brothers and the wrong they did when they treated you so badly.' Now please forgive the sin of the servants of the God of your father." When this message was reported to him, Joseph wept. 50:18 Then his brothers also came and threw themselves down before him; they said, "Here we are; we are your slaves." 50:19 But Joseph answered them, "Don't be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 50:20 As for you, you meant to harm me, but God intended it for a good purpose, so he could preserve the lives of many people, as you can see this day. 50:21 So now, don't be afraid. I will provide for you and your little children." Then he consoled them and spoke kindly to them. 50:22 Joseph lived in Egypt, along with his father's family. Joseph lived 110 years. 50:23 Joseph saw the descendants of Ephraim to the third generation. He also saw the children of Makir the son of Manasseh; they were given special inheritance rights by Joseph. 50:24 Then Joseph said to his brothers, "I am about to die. But God will surely come to you and lead you up from this land to the land he swore on oath to give to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." 50:25 Joseph made the sons of Israel swear an oath. He said, "God will surely come to you. Then you must carry my bones up from this place." 50:26 So Joseph died at the age of 110. After they embalmed him, his body was placed in a coffin in Egypt. Prayer Lord, may I be found as humble and kind as Joseph, meekly refusing to use the power I have to take vengeance upon those who have wronged me. Commentary Joseph was so highly respected and trusted in Egypt that not only did they join him in mourning the entire senior court of the Pharaoh, and many others (but not Pharaoh) traveled with him to Canaan to bury Jacob/Israel. Joseph's brothers, still stuck in their small world of fear, fussed about the possibility that Joseph might harm them now that their father was no longer alive. They went to Joseph in humility and pleaded for his mercy. Joseph declared "/Am I in the place of God? As for you, you meant to harm me, but God intended it for a good purpose, so he could preserve the lives of many people, as you can see this day./" Joseph also promised to provide for them and their children and he comforted and encouraged them -- as the prophesy had foretold they bowed-down to him, as even before his death Jacob/Israel had traveled to Egypt so that Joseph could provide for him (and his family). Joseph later died and received the promise of his family that when God took them out of Egypt they would bring his bones with them. Interaction Consider this: Was it God's desire that Joseph's brothers sell him into slavery so that he might become powerful enough to provide for them? The text does not say that -- God saw what was in their hearts, prophesied in general how He would turn their evil to good, and then guided the process. God is never the author of sin. Discuss this: Joseph could have sought revenge -- do you think that anyone, his brothers or the people in Egypt, would have questioned his right to do so? Joseph remained humble -- clearly recognizing that vengeance belonged to the Lord. Reflect on this: Despite all that he had suffered, most of his life lived away from his family, Joseph was gracious. Share this: When have you had the right, in the eyes of the world, and the power to wreak vengeance upon someone who had wronged you in the past. What did you do? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to show you where God has redeemed good from what humans have intended for evil. Action: I will listen closely to the Holy Spirit to discover a place when I may show God's forgiveness and grace, where I may choose to surrender my claim of righteous-vengeance to Him, and where I may encourage rather than terrify someone who has wronged me. Be Specific _______________________________________________________ Sunday's text will be from: Exodus 1 -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pastordavid at bibleseven.com Sat Jul 31 11:42:02 2010 From: pastordavid at bibleseven.com (pastordavid at bibleseven.com) Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2010 11:42:02 -0400 Subject: [Linux4christians] Sunday Exodus 1:1-22 Message-ID: <4C54444A.6090407@bibleseven.com> Sunday *Exodus 1:1-22* Blessing during Bondage in Egypt 1:1 These are the names of the sons of Israel who entered Egypt -- each man with his household entered with Jacob: 1:2 Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah, 1:3 Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin, 1:4 Dan and Naphtali, Gad and Asher. 1:5 All the people who were directly descended from Jacob numbered seventy. But Joseph was already in Egypt, 1:6 and in time Joseph and his brothers and all that generation died. 1:7 The Israelites, however, were fruitful, increased greatly, multiplied, and became extremely strong, so that the land was filled with them. 1:8 Then a new king, who did not know about Joseph, came to power over Egypt. 1:9 He said to his people, "Look at the Israelite people, more numerous and stronger than we are! 1:10 Come, let's deal wisely with them. Otherwise they will continue to multiply, and if a war breaks out, they will ally themselves with our enemies and fight against us and leave the country." 1:11 So they put foremen over the Israelites to oppress them with hard labor. As a result they built Pithom and Rameses as store cities for Pharaoh. 1:12 But the more the Egyptians oppressed them, the more they multiplied and spread. As a result the Egyptians loathed the Israelites, 1:13 and they made the Israelites serve rigorously. 1:14 They made their lives bitter by hard service with mortar and bricks and by all kinds of service in the fields. Every kind of service the Israelites were required to give was rigorous. 1:15 The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, one of whom was named Shiphrah and the other Puah, 1:16 "When you assist the Hebrew women in childbirth, observe at the delivery: If it is a son, kill him, but if it is a daughter, she may live." 1:17 But the midwives feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them; they let the boys live. 1:18 Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and said to them, "Why have you done this and let the boys live?" 1:19 The midwives said to Pharaoh, "Because the Hebrew women are not like the Egyptian women -- for the Hebrew women are vigorous; they give birth before the midwife gets to them!" 1:20 So God treated the midwives well, and the people multiplied and became very strong. 1:21 And because the midwives feared God, he made households for them. 1:22 Then Pharaoh commanded all his people, "All sons that are born you must throw into the river, but all daughters you may let live." Prayer Lord, those who do not know You have always been jealous of those who do, may we be fearless in living righteously before You no matter what the world may say or do. Commentary God blessed the Israelites and they multiplied and prospered. The blessing that Joseph was to Egypt was soon forgotten by a new king (Pharaoh) who was fearful of the rapidly multiplying foreigners in his land. He decided to make them slaves, like much of the rest of the population, and he decided to oppress them with the heaviest labors. God continued to bless them and so they continued to multiply. Pharaoh decided that genocide was the solution, so he ordered the two midwives (or, as the NET translator's observe, more probably the two who had oversight of the midwives to the Hebrews) to drown all of the newborn male children of the Hebrews. Because they honored God above Pharaoh they did not do so and when challenged gave the excuse that the Hebrew women were stronger than the Egyptian women and gave birth before they could arrive -- God blessed them with their own families as a result of them refusing Pharaoh's barbaric order. Pharaoh then gave the order that "all" must drown their male children and only allow the females to live. Note1: The designation "Hebrew" was generally a derogatory term used by others to refer to nomadic people, including but not exclusively the Israelites, though perhaps all of the descendants of Abraham whether members of one of the Israelite Tribes or not. Note 2: The text says "all" but the context is the control of the Israelite (Hebrew) population only, so it is probable that his genocidal edict was directed at them. Pharaoh presumably threatened to kill any adult among the Hebrews who disobeyed, hoping that generalized fear would motivate obedience, which it likely did among the more-faithless. Note 3: Had the Hebrew midwives answered Pharaoh's question fully it would have resulted in their deaths for disobedience. Because Pharaoh's order was in direct contradiction of God, and an attack upon His people, he had no right to expect cooperation or truth. Interaction Consider this: Pharaoh, like many who find themselves in positions of power, made fear-driven and irrational assumptions about the Israelites and then acted upon them. Discuss this: Do we have integrity and a work-ethic to honor God that allows Him to bless us despite oppression? Reflect on this: How different are leaders today, often making foolish decisions and then escalating them rather than learning from their mistakes? Share this: When have you been confronted with a person of power who pressured you to do things that God says you must not? How did you respond? Faith in Action Prayer: Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal to you any place where you are obeying man in contradiction to God. Action: Today I will seek the prayerful wisdom of one who is Biblically qualified as an "elder" as I determine how I will respond to a worldly-challenge to disobey God's commands in my life. It may be in a hobby or sports, at school or at work, at home or in the neighborhood. Doing what is right before God often triggers a negative reaction by those in power and whose idols are in the world, so I must pray and choose wisely my course of action. Be Specific ______________________________________________________ Monday's text will be: *Exodus 2:1-22 * -- Have an http://Ultrafidian.com Day! Pastor David ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Personal Site: http://bibleseven.com Bible Resources: http://bible.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: