[Linux4christians] Ex-Muslim's college speech disrupted by arson.

[Mike McMullin]

On Wed, 2009-12-09 at 15:13 +0700, David Kuntadi wrote:
> On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 2:09 PM, Mike McMullin <mwmcmlln at mnsi.net> wrote:
> >  Please, be more careful with the quotes, you left out the key phrase:
> > "He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the
> > groves, and brake into pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made:
> > for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and
> > he called it Nehushtan."
> >
> >  Note the difference in time, this is at a much later date when Israel
> > was indulging in Idolatry.  Contrast that to Numbers 21:9
> > "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came
> > to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the
> > serpent of brass, he lived."
> >
> >  Numbers does not counsel idolatry, the record attests to that.
> >
> >  I can make certain allowances for English not being your first
> > language, but I cannot allow for bad cites.
> 
> I beg to differ. For my opinion, during Moses time is also an
> idolatry, but it is accepted.

  As I mentioned, they looked on the Brass Serpent they did not worship
it.  One cannot argue that the Israelites came out of an idolatrous
land, and no doubt had those tendencies, but I have yet to see a verse
where they were encouraged or ordered to worship an image instead of
God.  (And I would argue that God in no way either possessed or
inhabited the brass serpent.  The creator is not contained by creation,
but contains creation.)

> So, I see this is a change in Israel moral standard of what is allowed
> and what is not allowed. Previously during Moses time, it is allowed
> to treat Serpent Brass as having power (to heal) is not considered as
> idolatry (accepted). But later on, it not acceptable and considered as
> idolatry.

  Please note that conclusion is not supported by the text of the verse
in my quoting of it (version is KJV).  It did not say that the brass
serpent did any healing, it said they looked on the brass serpent and
they lived if they had been bitten.

> So, I have quoted it properly. Now, could you please explain why
> "Healed by a serpent brass" not considered as an idolatry?

  As noted directly above the record does not indicate that the image
did anything other than occupy physical space, and was looked at.  I do
understand how one could get to your conclusion, but it is not supported
by the record.