[Linux4christians] Ex-Muslim's college speech disrupted by arson.

[l4c]

David Kuntadi wrote:
> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Fred A. Miller <fmiller at lightlink.com> wrote:
>> On 12/06/2009 09:45 PM, David Kuntadi wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:07 AM, Timothy Butler <tbutler at ofb.biz> wrote:
>>
>>
>>        Yes (but Jesus is a human, not divine in the Muslim view). It is also
>> worth noting that during the earlier years, Islam was less militant than it
>> is now, encouraged centers of learning that studied philosophy, classics,
>> etc. and so on. Thomas Aquinas, for example, was deeply indebted to Muslim
>> philosopher Averroes whom he referred to as "the Interpreter" for his work
>> on the interpretation of Aristotle.
>>
>>
>> There are two problems here:
>>
>> 1. If Jesus is not accepted as God in Quran, why Quran accepted that
>> Jesus would come and judge the world?
>>
>>
>> Ok......SHOW me, in the Quran where it says that. I already KNOW it doesn't!
> 
> I said, Quran accepts Jesus as the Judge of the world:
> 
> http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/043.qmt.html#043.061
> 
> 043.061
> YUSUFALI: And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of
> Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me:
> this is a Straight Way.
> PICKTHAL: And lo! verily there is knowledge of the Hour. So doubt ye
> not concerning it, but follow Me. This is the right path.
> SHAKIR: And most surely it is a knowledge of the hour, therefore have
> no doubt about it and follow me: this is the right path.
> 
> So, why doas Quran accept Jesus as Judge of the world?
> 
> DK

Why are we even discussing the validity of a book which is so obviously 
a fiction?  To better our understanding, and give us a way to speak to 
and spread the true gospel?  To that end:

The Quran repeatedly makes reference to Jesus only being another prophet:
"Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a messenger; many were the 
messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. 
They had both to eat their (daily) food. See how God makes His signs 
clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the 
truth!" (5:75).
"He [Jesus] said: 'I am indeed a servant of God. He has given me 
revelation and made me a prophet; He has made me blessed wheresoever I 
be; and He has enjoined on me prayer and charity as long as I live. He 
has made me kind to my mother, and not overbearing or miserable. So 
peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that 
I shall be raised up to life (again)!' Such was Jesus the son of Mary. 
It is a statement of truth, about which they (vainly) dispute. It is not 
befitting to (the majesty of) God that He should beget a son. Glory be 
to Him! When He determines a matter, He only says to it, 'Be,' and it 
is" (19:30-35).

Unfortunately for them (the Muslims), even secularly speaking, the 
historical accountance provided in the Bible (not the Quran) has been 
proven to be the most historically correct record of the time that we 
have.  In fact, everywhere it _can_ be proven to be accurate, it has 
been proven to be accurate, from archaeological findings (existence of 
cities and their locations) to historical accounts of people and places 
cross referenced with texts of other secular historians of the time period.

Why does that matter?  Well, because if we accept that the Bible as a 
more accurate historical record, we have to accept that what is in there 
as accurate too.  And, in the Bible, Jesus says:

Jn.5:37: "And the Father himself, who sent me, has borne witness of me. 
You have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.."

Whoa?!  Not just a prophet, but *THE* SON OF GOD!

John 14:6: Jesus said to him, "I AM the way, the truth, and the life. No 
one comes to the Father except through Me.

Nope, don't follow anyone else..  Not even Muhammad.

What the Bible does not have Jesus as saying is that he is just a 
prophet and to go and follow Muhammad.