[Linux4christians] notes from the front 2

Fri Jun 24 12:32:53 EDT 2005

Clarification Mr. Martin. I did not accuse you of being a snob or 
self-indulgent. Merely pointed out the cultural proclivities of Western 
society that I plainly saw in your posts. Not to falsely excuse myself 
but I thought I made that clear. My apology is directly addressing the 
issue of you taking matters too subjectively. That was/is not my intent. 
I don't know you at all so I think the accusation you've made is a 
little over reactive. Do you understand?

In Mashiach,
Stanley

Greg Martin wrote:
> So you accuse me of being a snob and self-indulgent in one message and I 
> resent it no matter how you excuse yourself.  I think you are reading 
> way too much into my motives.
> 
> You see the dollar cost of entry into computing as more of a barrier 
> than the educational/skill barrier.  I think cost is no more valid than 
> skills.  I've been to Zambia where MS employees had been right before me 
> loading Windows onto PCs so those so inclined can learn computing 
> skills.  IMO, Windows is easier to load and use and therefore lowers the 
> bar for access in its own way.  It does NOT have to be that way - but it 
> is today.  As for the self help argument - I think that's only partially 
> true.  If I need access to information - I need it.  telling me that 
> once I load this and download this and recompile this I can get the that 
> information - I'm going to laugh.  Sure teach me to fish - but don't 
> leave me starving.
> 
> \\Greg
> 
> singingfalls wrote:
> 
>> Problem is there is a class of individuals you are not taking into 
>> account when you say, "average PC user". That is the poor. Although 
>> "Free as in Salvation" is a secondary aspect of the value of Linux, it 
>> is still an important one. There are many who do not have the option 
>> to use Windows. What about them? They are stuck with scaling the Linux 
>> learning curve or becoming pirates. It is obvious that your 
>> perspective is confined to middle and upper crust of the world 
>> culture. I don't mean that assessment to be derogatory, only blatant. 
>> I mention it because the attitude you propose to be that of the 
>> "average user" is a self indulgent one and the average user needs help 
>> escaping it. Also, the lesson of working out the  ability to operate 
>> Linux is a self help one. (Actually, I have spent a lot of time 
>> praying about the hurdles I have been unable to get over and include 
>> it in the "self help" category).
>> Only this brother. We live in a culture that is way too "point and 
>> click" for it's own safety or good. I started Linux with RH 5.2. I am 
>> now running Fedora Core 3. I still don't have a clue ;) BUT I can do 
>> just about everything I need and want to do on Linux. Don't get 
>> discouraged or frustrated. Linux is becoming more user friendly all 
>> the time but it's like the rest of life on this old world - hard.
>>
>> In Mashiach,
>> Stanley
>>
>> Greg Martin wrote:
>>
>>> My "they" reference is to those who join the continuing chorus of 
>>> "hate MS/love Linux/everyone should switch".  For the average PC 
>>> user, there is nothing to switch to.  IMO, Linux still requires too 
>>> high a skill level for entry.
>>>
>>> I believe Linux will succeed when when it is as easy to install and 
>>> use as Windows and the "marketing" message moves to "Linux is better" 
>>> from "MS sucks".
>>>
>>> \\Greg
>>>
>>> JT Moree wrote:
>>>
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>>>>
>>>> Greg Martin wrote:
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>>> JT, while I agree with most of what you say, I do have to add 
>>>>> this.  If
>>>>> the Linux/OS community wants to make real headway into linux for the
>>>>> masses, they must be prepared to document their software and not 
>>>>> rely on
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I agree and my point again:  THEY = YOU AND ME.  We are the linux
>>>> community and WE need to do the work.  Grandma and grandpa aren't 
>>>> signed
>>>> up for this mailing list bc they aren't going to do anything about it.
>>>>
>>>> But WE have to stop using WE/THEY mentality.  The original poster sets
>>>> himself apart from the Linux community by using the term 'they' as 
>>>> if he
>>>> should be allowed to reap all of the benefits of said community without
>>>> having to take part in the work.  The second poster also sets himself
>>>> apart in his reply to mine--evidencing that this attitude is 
>>>> rampant.  I
>>>> hear it all the time from users and I see it all the time in 
>>>> articles by
>>>> tech journalists.
>>>>
>>>> Open Source only works if members of the COMMUNITY understand that Open
>>>> Source only works as a community.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am disheartened by the
>>>> misunderstandings that plauge the general populace about technology.
>>>> I'm just trying to help everyone on this list understand the issue.
>>>>
>>>> - --
>>>> JT Morée
>>>> PC Xperience, Inc.
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>>>> iD8DBQFCtySeXEayxvjyJdwRAoezAJ91fAN+gDI/wW2zpg6H4kFWBPBg1ACcDjUZ
>>>> kr14AM8M4ByOVEXT7ySBBo4=
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>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
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