[Linux4christians] notes from the front 2
mohair at singingfalls.com
Fri Jun 24 12:32:53 EDT 2005
Clarification Mr. Martin. I did not accuse you of being a snob or
self-indulgent. Merely pointed out the cultural proclivities of Western
society that I plainly saw in your posts. Not to falsely excuse myself
but I thought I made that clear. My apology is directly addressing the
issue of you taking matters too subjectively. That was/is not my intent.
I don't know you at all so I think the accusation you've made is a
little over reactive. Do you understand?
Greg Martin wrote:
> So you accuse me of being a snob and self-indulgent in one message and I
> resent it no matter how you excuse yourself. I think you are reading
> way too much into my motives.
> You see the dollar cost of entry into computing as more of a barrier
> than the educational/skill barrier. I think cost is no more valid than
> skills. I've been to Zambia where MS employees had been right before me
> loading Windows onto PCs so those so inclined can learn computing
> skills. IMO, Windows is easier to load and use and therefore lowers the
> bar for access in its own way. It does NOT have to be that way - but it
> is today. As for the self help argument - I think that's only partially
> true. If I need access to information - I need it. telling me that
> once I load this and download this and recompile this I can get the that
> information - I'm going to laugh. Sure teach me to fish - but don't
> leave me starving.
> singingfalls wrote:
>> Problem is there is a class of individuals you are not taking into
>> account when you say, "average PC user". That is the poor. Although
>> "Free as in Salvation" is a secondary aspect of the value of Linux, it
>> is still an important one. There are many who do not have the option
>> to use Windows. What about them? They are stuck with scaling the Linux
>> learning curve or becoming pirates. It is obvious that your
>> perspective is confined to middle and upper crust of the world
>> culture. I don't mean that assessment to be derogatory, only blatant.
>> I mention it because the attitude you propose to be that of the
>> "average user" is a self indulgent one and the average user needs help
>> escaping it. Also, the lesson of working out the ability to operate
>> Linux is a self help one. (Actually, I have spent a lot of time
>> praying about the hurdles I have been unable to get over and include
>> it in the "self help" category).
>> Only this brother. We live in a culture that is way too "point and
>> click" for it's own safety or good. I started Linux with RH 5.2. I am
>> now running Fedora Core 3. I still don't have a clue ;) BUT I can do
>> just about everything I need and want to do on Linux. Don't get
>> discouraged or frustrated. Linux is becoming more user friendly all
>> the time but it's like the rest of life on this old world - hard.
>> In Mashiach,
>> Greg Martin wrote:
>>> My "they" reference is to those who join the continuing chorus of
>>> "hate MS/love Linux/everyone should switch". For the average PC
>>> user, there is nothing to switch to. IMO, Linux still requires too
>>> high a skill level for entry.
>>> I believe Linux will succeed when when it is as easy to install and
>>> use as Windows and the "marketing" message moves to "Linux is better"
>>> from "MS sucks".
>>> JT Moree wrote:
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>>>> Greg Martin wrote:
>>>>> JT, while I agree with most of what you say, I do have to add
>>>>> this. If
>>>>> the Linux/OS community wants to make real headway into linux for the
>>>>> masses, they must be prepared to document their software and not
>>>>> rely on
>>>> I agree and my point again: THEY = YOU AND ME. We are the linux
>>>> community and WE need to do the work. Grandma and grandpa aren't
>>>> up for this mailing list bc they aren't going to do anything about it.
>>>> But WE have to stop using WE/THEY mentality. The original poster sets
>>>> himself apart from the Linux community by using the term 'they' as
>>>> if he
>>>> should be allowed to reap all of the benefits of said community without
>>>> having to take part in the work. The second poster also sets himself
>>>> apart in his reply to mine--evidencing that this attitude is
>>>> rampant. I
>>>> hear it all the time from users and I see it all the time in
>>>> articles by
>>>> tech journalists.
>>>> Open Source only works if members of the COMMUNITY understand that Open
>>>> Source only works as a community.
>>>> I'm not trying to be argumentative but I am disheartened by the
>>>> misunderstandings that plauge the general populace about technology.
>>>> I'm just trying to help everyone on this list understand the issue.
>>>> - --
>>>> JT Morée
>>>> PC Xperience, Inc.
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