Bush on TV - Throwing away another $14 Bil taxpayer's money

[greggh]

Throwing away another $13.4 Bil on an US Car companies that are doomed to fail. I am filled with anger and disgust whenever I see Bush now. This man has done so much damage to this country over the last 8 years. Worst President ever!

[Patrick]

This man has done so much damage to this country over the last 8 years. Worst President ever!

Clearly you're too young to remember the Jimmy Carter administration. As a kid I remember sitting in my mom's Gremlin waiting for hours at the opportunity to fill up the gas tank. I also remember the Iran hostage crisis. Calling Carter inept would be too generous.

Here's a 10 part series on how bad Carter was:
http://www.ibdeditorial.com/Special3.aspx

[greggh]

I'm older than you Pat. I'm 41. Yeah, I remember the Carter years. Bush is much worse. We won't know for a couple of years yet the true level of damage Bush has done.

[jstgtpaid]

I don't blame Bush for the failure of the big 3. That falls squarely on the leadership of the big 3. (Actually the current leader of Ford is new and seems to have done good things during his term, so he may be exempt) Bush should have acted differently with Lehman brothers and I think he and his cabinet is partially responsible for that debacle. There is tons of historical precedence for bailing out banks. Unfortunately, banks have a free pass for stupidity. The way our current world wide economic system is, we need the banks and we need them to be loaning money. Several other recessions are very similar to the one we are in and in all cases, bank relief was required to get things straight...

Anyway, I personally believe that at least two of the big 3 are 'zombie companies.' In short zombie companies are companies that are dead and they don't know it yet. They are kept 'alive' by a continuous stream of loans. 'Zombie companies' were prolific in the Japanese recession that started in '91. The Japanese government make many of the same mistakes (loaning money to companies that are dead).

In the case of the Big 3, they are stating that a perfect storm scenario is the cause of their current state. The automakers main gripe is that with the failure of Lehman brothers the loan market dried up and they were unable to get loans required to operate. Loans, they claim, that would normally be available.

So therein lies the rub. I think it is prudent at that point to determine if the companies are viable before loans are extended. Yes, you can chastise them for being lacking foresight and being horrible leaders. You can even point out that the lack of foresight is glaring still with their private jet trips to DC. However, I think one needs to step back and ask some hard questions...
- What will you do with the funds?
- What do you plan to do differently to get in the black?
- Is your company viable or do you need loans to remain in business?

In addition, it seems implied that if the loans are given, that Americans will not lose their jobs. However, as I said, I think that at least two of the companies are dead and don't know it. I believe that as they are forced to get in the black they will start to purge factories and workers in large numbers. I think the loans will only keep the electricity on at HQ and that the plants will go dark and the workers to the unemployment lines.

I could be wrong though... LOL... I have been wrong before...

[eddie]

Considering what the national debt is, do we really have any money? Does the Middle East, China and others have so many markers on us we have to cowtow to them. The reason for Nafta, Iraq war and etc.

[Brian]

Cut all entitlement programs now and make everyone pay back two years' of free stuff by working at Ford, Chrysler, Citigroup, Morgan Stanley, public works projects, and so on, for free for the next 24 months. Start with SSI and work down from there. People over 62 are exempt as are wounded veterans, and the legitimately disabled. People who "graduate" from high school and can't read and write should pay back the cost of their schooling. Now, this of course, is just a beginning. I can think of a lot public works projects too that these freeloaders can work on. Wait, then again, maybe I don't want some of those people building bridges or buildings.

I am a capitalist but people shouldn't be able to 'retire' in their 40's and collect a pension and then go work full-time somewhere else but that's a whole another issue. At least those people are still contributing to society by working.

[eddie]

I take issue with the forgoing of SSI. It is bad enough that congress screwed underpaid teachers, by limiting benefits of social security to public retirees when that rule does not apply to federal employees. I do believe in tightening the belt, but think that out for a minute. Most people do not have savings to work for free for any amount of time. The first thing that should have been done was to fire the overpaid top managers of the industries that failed. I bet things would have changed real quick. Top management in this country has gotten to big for it's britches and can not effectively manage. As much of a Republican as I am, the present administration could have taken a stand and told the failing industries involved to get their act together or face the consequences. They are a lot less threating than any Iraqi militant or are they? It is a shame that Bush did not or does not have the guts to stand up to them. I believe that if there had not been a cap to social security taxes we would not be having an issue with it. With all the enormous salaries, removing the cap would solve a lot of problems real quick. I also think we should start charging the middle east for the war and tell them we are leaving it they can not pay for it. There is so much wealth in oil over there that it should not be a big deal. Maybe we should put a windfall profits tax on military providers. That makes a lot more sense that to double penalize the little guy. We should also stop entitlements to other countries and give them to our own citizens who need help instead. We should also penalize companies that send jobs overseas and south of the border. If people in other countries are getting income from the US, they need to help pitch in like we do. The US companies should pay tax on salaries paid to non-us employees. Let us put the burden where it applies. It is time the US did a little tough love to the world and stop making the little guy U.S. taxpayer pay for it.

[jstgtpaid]

What you said, eddie, got me thinking. I seem to recall (and this is fuzzy so I will have to look it up again) that France was making a fair amount of money from the Iraqi's prior to the invasion. If I remember correctly they were being paid an oil for food operation or something like that. Anyway, it doesn't seem far fetched that we could be reimbursed for all the work that we are doing in Iraq.

I imagine also that we could reduce our financial burden by allowing other countries to make money off the Iraqi's. For example if we focused on security issues, maybe other countries could work on infrastructure issues or something like that...